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*Disclaimer: This topic is not intended for young listeners. Please use discretion. Maximize PLEASURE in Marriage by Understanding Your Wife Better: An Interview with Francie Winslow (Episode 294) Proverbs 5:19b NLT “May you always be captivated by her love.” *Transcription Below* Francie Winslow is a wife, mom, and intimacy evangelist. Three fun facts about Francie: NO. 1 I saw a glimpse of Jesus’ heart one day as a 19-year-old, when I sat in a Thai brothel with girls my age. My friend and I bought two girls for the night so we could take them to dinner and shower them with REAL LOVE. It was there that I realized there was nothing more that I wanted than to give God all of me. NO. 2 I got married when I was 20, after knowing my husband for only 10 months, and dating him for less than 5 months. Total craziness, I know, but so clearly the way God was leading me. NO. 3 My husband and I have 6 kids, some with special needs and chronic health issues. So yeah, life right now is a bit crazy. But it never lacks for excitement as I learn about the things they really need and how God is working in me as I serve my family in every season. Francie’s Website Follow along with her @franciewinslow Thank you to Our Sponsor: WinShape Marriage Questions and Topics We Cover: As moms, how do we go from “touched out” to “turned on”? How can we realistically choose to still prioritize connection, right in the middle of the busy? After diving into this topic for many years, will you share what you have learned about orgasm? Other Savvy Sauce Episode Mentioned: 4. Fostering a Fun, Healthy Sex Life With Your Spouse With Certified Sex Therapist and Author, Dr. Jennifer Konzen 7. Easy Changes to Enhance Your Sexual Intimacy in Marriage With Christian Sex Therapist Pioneers, Dr. Clifford and Joyce Penner 63 Maximizing Sexual Enjoyment During the 3 Most Challenging Seasons in Marriage with Dr. Clifford and Joyce Penner 252. Maximizing Sexual Connection as Newlyweds to Long Term Marriages and Recovering from a Sexless Marriage with Dr. Clifford & Joyce Penner Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website Gospel Scripture: (all NIV) Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,” Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.” Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.” Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.” Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.” John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.” Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus” Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.” Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.” Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“ Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“ Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.” *Transcription* Music: (0:00 – 0:11) Laura Dugger: (0:12 - 2:05) Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host, Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here. Today's message is not intended for little ears. We'll be discussing some adult themes, and I want you to be aware before you listen to this message. I'm thrilled to introduce you to our sponsor, WinShape Marriage. Their weekend marriage retreats will strengthen your marriage, while you enjoy the gorgeous setting, delicious food, and quality time with your spouse. To find out more, visit them online at winshapemarriage.org slash savvy. I'm so excited to welcome back my returning guest, Francie Winslow. This conversation is going to be geared a little bit more toward understanding women, but I want you to know it's going to be very beneficial for both husbands and wives. I think husbands are going to appreciate getting a glimpse into how their wife's body works, and how they can love them better and serve them, even in the bedroom, so that they can enjoy a more fulfilling sex life with you as their spouse. And for wives, I believe you're going to appreciate your feelings or your vague thoughts being put into words, because Francie has this way of articulating big ideas and making them bite-sized and understandable through all of her wisdom. So, not everything will apply to every wife, but I hope that everyone gets to find encouragement and enjoy a deeper sexual connection with your spouse after listening to this message and applying the wisdom. Here's our chat. Welcome back to The Savvy Sauce, Francie. Francie Winslow: (2:05 - 2:07) It's so good to be here, thanks for having me. Laura Dugger: (2:07 - 2:20) Well, I'd love to begin with this idea of sharing sparks, because I was so intrigued the first time that I heard you teach on this topic. So, can you just explain more about this concept? Francie Winslow: (2:22 - 5:56) Sure. Well, I think the idea really just came from this experience that my husband and I have had of knowing that, kind of in movies, it's portrayed that romance is just always fiery and passionate, and then you get married, you have kids, real life sets in, and it's like, hey, what does this actually look like to have a sex drive or to have a sense of passion in your marriage? And just for some context, because I think context helps, I have six kids from 18 down to 7, some pretty significant special needs, autoimmune diseases. We've got a lot packed into our little home. And so, then you have a marriage that you want to stay on fire, you want to stay growing, but life is full, life is hard. And so, it's just easy to feel like the fire's just gone out. And my husband and I work really hard on intentionality in our sex life, and we kind of came up with this idea called sparks, because sometimes that's all you have, is like a tiny spark, and that's actually okay. You think about a campfire, really what you need is you just need a spark, and then you just need to blow on it a little bit, and it turns into embers and then can turn into a fire. And so, we talk about rather than like, I've lost my sex drive, or do you have high sex drive or low drive, kind of releasing that concept and the heaviness that can be around that concept and just talk about cultivating sparks. And a spark is essentially just a bit of desire, a bit of arousal, a bit of attraction, and we can kind of be so busy in our day that we might have a fleeting thought of, oh, it would be nice to be together tonight, and then you just forget about it. But rather than having a fleeting thought or a sensation in your body and letting it pass, we talk about sharing our sparks. And so, we'll, if I have a thought of, hey, I'm thinking about your biceps today, you know, like something playful and fun, and how much I am attracted to you, I'll text it to him or he'll text it to me. Or if we're in person, we'll share our sparks by, you know, grabbing each other and pulling each other into the pantry for a second, having a little makeout or having a little, you know, quick, playful petting session, and we're just being playful for 30 seconds here, 30 seconds there in the middle of real life. And it's a way to say, hey, I'm bringing my little spark, you're bringing your little spark, and we're doing, honestly, the best we can in the, in the midst of real life in the midst of real hard to keep our fire going. And it is amazing the impact that that's had on our marriage, because it's just easy to assume, we're just too tired. And then days go by weeks go by and, and really roommate, the roommate rut sets in or disconnection or even pain because you begin to miss each other. And it feels hard to get reconnected. So, we've found it to be really beneficial and simple just to say, okay, if I have a fleeting feeling in my body, a little sensation, a little attraction, a little arousal, a little desire, a little flirtatious energy, I'm just gonna express it as quickly or as sincerely as I can in that moment. Like I said, sometimes it's through text, sometimes it would be a quick phone call, hey, you know, I'm thinking about you tonight, or, you know, playfully, like, what are you wearing, or like a text a little, a little invitation to connection later. And it's those little things that make a really big difference. And I would say the physical things, especially like grabbing each other, hey, we'll say to our kids, mom and dad need to have a quick conversation, like real serious, and then we'll go to the laundry room or go to the pantry. And it's just those literal 30 second exchanges that are so small that make a really big difference in keeping the fire going in our marriage. And it's super meaningful, especially in these really busy seasons. Laura Dugger: (5:58 - 6:21) I love that because you've also pointed out, I think, in the past that you don't buy into the whole who has high libido, who has lower drive. Rather, you see it as energy that can be fostered. And also, then just that connection of we have the spark, but then sharing it, it can ignite faster. So, anything else you'd like to add about? Francie Winslow: (6:22 - 9:35) Yeah, I think that's good to bring it up. I mean, a spark is like a bit of energy. And if you think about like a spark of fire, like that creates something and a spark of desire in your marriage, or a tiny spark of arousal is sexual energy. And so, I think of it as how do I grow sexual energy. And that, ironically, has to be a really intentional thing. It has to be like, I think about being with my husband, I actually spend time, maybe even my planner thinking, okay, I'd like to have sex, we'd like to have sex at some point this week, what day would be best where I'd have the most energy or where he would be, you know, not as stressed out because he had a lighter workday or maybe not have to early morning, you think about your week, your time, in terms of energy. And when you think about sexual energy, when we might have the most sexual energy or creating sexual energy. And so, we've realized that we came to that point of kind of forsaking the high drive and low drive identities, because I think they can become Oh, he's the high, I'm the low, or vice versa. And that can feel heavy. And it can feel like pressure, like I feel ashamed, because I'm low, he feels disappointed, because he's high, whatever it might be. And that can switch for men and women as well. And rather than seeing it as that, and maybe we've just like, life has beat us up. So, neither of us have a high drive at this point. And but yet, we still have a very active sex life without that clinging to who's high and who's low, because we're both committed to growing our sexual energy. And so for me, that looks like thinking about being with him, it looks like tuning into my body in a sensuous way, as a tired mom, and that looks like holding my cup of coffee or cup of tea intentionally and like feeling sensation in the everyday moments from wafts of you know, steam coming from my coffee to the sunlight on my face to washing in the shower, I can actually realize that I've had years where I will do the whole shower routine and not feel a thing like I didn't even notice sensation from shampoo or from the loofah or from lotion, I just did it robotically to get through the chore of caring for my body. And I've switched really to think of it as being paying attention to my body paying attention to sensation paying attention to how nice it feels to wash my face with a soap that smells good. And it's those things of going slow and being embodied and paying attention to my body and sensations that does transfer over to help me remember, oh, I want to foster awareness of my body. And being aware of my body is a way of fostering sexual energy, because I'm thinking about how things feel. And I'm thinking about my body and how it's responding to touch. And then that helps me honestly feel more when my husband touches me. So, we can talk about that later about the issue of kind of feeling numb in our bodies. But I think that that is a reality for marriage later on is that we can become numb in our sex life, because we're just busy, and we're tired, and things are routine, and we're kind of bored. And so fostering sexual energy, getting out of our heads and into our bodies, thinking about our times together, growing our skills, sexually learning about learning about sex, learning about anatomy, all of those things are ways to grow sexual energy, as well as just the playfulness of the sparks and, you know, pulling each other into the pantry and having a quick makeout session, those kinds of things. Laura Dugger: (9:36 - 10:53) I love those practical examples. And I think you're right; we should get to numbing or what it feels like maybe later on in marriage. But let's go back to Newlyweds or especially new moms, because just for all of marriage, sexual connection is going to cement us together. So, of course, the enemy of our soul is going to want to do anything at every stage to make us too busy, too distracted, to have that intimate connection. And many times, new parents have things that make it difficult and challenging to connect. But it's not like it gets any easier, because then other difficulties are going to come in, whether that's raising older children or medic…
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