The Modern Therapist's Survival Guide with Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy

Latest Episodes:

Is CBT Crap? May 06, 2019

Show notes

Curt and Katie talk about evidence-based practices, clinician training, and when even the evidence base can go wrong.

It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.

In this episode we talk about:

How we know better than the evidence
The need for evidence-based practice in community mental health
Funding, efficiency, and diagnosis
The difference between the clientele in public mental health and private practice
Evidence-based practices pros and cons
The science, the efficacy, replicability of EBPs
The pros and cons of EBPs in community mental health
The need to include individual factors in EBPs
EBPs versus relational style (and how they may not be mutually exclusive)
The question about personality characteristics of CBT therapists
The opinion about rapport being missing from EBPs
How training jumps to EBP, to the detriment of the relationship
The problem with people who overuse or oversimplify the need for each orientation
Strong clinical orientation versus the “eclectic” or “integrative” psychotherapy
The Medical Model
The challenge of training therapists in relational skills and how to be a better therapist, rather than teaching specific handful of skills
The importance of proving efficacy, getting funding for services
Treatment decision-making and collaboration in public mental health versus private practice
The complexity of actual clients and the need for more than just one EBP to use for treatment
The problems with new clinician training related to EBPs

Resources mentioned:

We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links.

Dr. Scott Miller: Feedback Informed Treatment

Dr. Ben Caldwell

Modern Community Mental Health: An Interdisciplinary Approach by Kenneth Yeager, David Cutler, Dale Svendsen, and Grayce M. Sills

Relevant Episodes:

Therapist Know Thyself

Our Facebook Group – The Modern Therapists Group

Therapy Reimagined 2019

Our CALL FOR SPEAKERS!!

Our consultation services:

The Fifty-Minute Hour

Credits:

Voice Over by DW McCann https://www.facebook.com/McCannDW/

Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano http://www.crystalmangano.com/

Neurodivergence Apr 29, 2019

Show notes

An interview Joel Schwartz, PsyD on neurodiversity, Autism Spectrum Disorders, and neurodivergence. Curt and Katie talk with Joel about how often our natural spectrum of neurodiversity is pathologized.

It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. We are human beings who can now present ourselves as whole people, with authenticity, purpose, and connection. Especially now, when therapists must develop a personal brand to market their practices.

To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.

Interview with Joel Schwartz, PsyD

Dr. Joel Schwartz is a licensed clinical psychologist with a private practice in the South Bay of Los Angeles County. He specializes in therapy and testing for the misunderstood. As a therapist, he is warm, compassionate, and strongly humanistic, allowing for all the oddities and unexplored aspects of his clients to emerge and be validated. As a testing psychologist, Dr. Schwartz specializes in difficult and complex cases.

Dr. Schwartz grew up in Southern California. He developed an early interest in psychology, strangely enough, from a childhood filled with science fiction stories. These stories often provided fascinating looks into human psychology and the human spirit. Dr. Schwartz attended UCLA as an undergrad where he conducted research in the field of neurolinguistics. From there, he attended Yeshiva University’s Ferkauf School of Clinical Psychology for his Master’s and Doctorate degree. He has worked in various settings including colleges, clinics, a federal prison, and residential treatment centers. Through his experience with a vast array of individuals he has stuck with one important lesson among many; as the psychoanalyst Harry Stack Sullivan said, “We are all more human than otherwise.”

In this episode we talk about:

The problem of the medical model
Looking at neurodiversity as a spectrum and a natural part of life
Defining neurodiversity and neurodivergence
Looking at differences as okay, and not disordered
Traditional versus neurodiversity affirmative practices
The strain of compensatory behaviors when one is neurodivergent and trying to fit in
Problematic assumptions that do not welcome neurodivergent folks
Practical ways to create an office that supports the full spectrum of neurodiversity
The importance of clear instructions, options, and sensitivity to the different
Radical acceptance
The freedom and relief of not having to learn, when everything is explained.
The debate about ABA and behavioral interventions
The social justice aspects of working with neuro-minorities
The importance of representation of neurodivergent people in all aspects of society
Autistic people are demanding representation, are consulting, and are acting in roles
Looking at the nuance of radical acceptance – when intervention is required, rather than acceptance
The problem of behaviorism leading to repression and dissociation
Having the goal of decreasing a behavior, shouldn’t be the final goal
The problems of having ABA therapists not address their own emotions
The problem with having neurotypical people setting goals for neurodivergent people
Looking at the invalidation of modifying behaviors
How to balance what society will accept as well as validating the person
How do we set them up for success, without pathologizing their behavior
Self-regulatory behaviors – comparing them to coffee drinking
The need to move toward societal change

One Hundred Apr 22, 2019

Show notes

Curt and Katie reflect on 100 podcast episodes, what the experience has been like, and where we want to take the podcast next.

In this episode we talk about:

How much we appreciate listener connection and feedback
Self-reflection on the previous 99 episodes
A new hashtag: #teamcurtie
Our switch from 2 episodes per week to 1 episode per week
How podcasting has improved our speaking and thought processes
The impact of hearing from listeners of the podcast at the conference
How we recorded and put out the Therapist Safety episodes
Our goal to catalyze the diverse voices in our community to stand up
How we have made mistakes publicly in order to have healing conversations publicly
The level of disclosure we have on the podcast
The surprise that our moms aren’t the only people listening every week
The way we talk about our profession in order to improve it
How we are going to grow and change the podcast
What are #moderntherapist conversations (and what are not)
Guiding principles of what we’re talking about
How we are different from other groups, other podcasts
The origin of the podcast as a marketing plan for a conference, and then it evolved into its own thing

Relevant Episodes:

So You Want to Plan a Conference

Therapist Safety

Attracted Clients

Let’s Talk About Race Again

Vulnerability, the News, and You

Toxic Work Environments

Take Action Like a BOSS

Social Media and Video Marketing with Ernesto Segismundo, Jr M.S. LMFT

Becoming a Group Practice Owner with Maureen Werrbach

Our Facebook Group – The Modern Therapists Group

Therapy Reimagined 2019

Our CALL FOR SPEAKERS!!

Our consultation services:

The Fifty-Minute Hour

Who we are:

Curt Widhalm is a Licensed Marriage & Family Therapist in private practice in the Los Angeles area. He is a Board Member at Large for the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists, a Subject Matter Expert for the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, Adjunct Faculty at Pepperdine University, and a loving husband and father. He is 1/2 great person, 1/2 provocateur, and 1/2 geek, in that order. He dabbles in the dark art of making "dad jokes" and usually has a half-empty cup of coffee somewhere nearby. Learn more at: www.curtwidhalm.com

Katie Vernoy is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, coach, and consultant. As a helping professional for two decades, she’s navigated the ups and downs of our unique line of work. She’s run her own solo therapy practice, designed innovative clinical programs, built and managed large, thriving teams of service providers, and consulted hundreds of helping professionals on how to build meaningful AND sustainable practices. In her spare time, Katie is secretly siphoning off Curt's youthful energy, so that she can take over the world. Learn more at: www.katievernoy.com

A Quick Note:

Our opinions are our own. We are only speaking for ourselves – except when we speak for each other, or over each other. We’re working on it.

Our guests are also only speaking for themselves and have their own opinions. We aren’t trying to take their voice, and no one speaks for us either. Mostly because they don’t want to, but hey.

Let's Talk About Race Again Apr 15, 2019

Show notes

An interview Yin Li, LMFT about Asian American and Pacific Islanders in therapy and as therapists. Curt and Katie talk with Yin about how often AAPI individuals are not included in the conversation about racism, culture, and mental health.

To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.

Interview with Yin Li, MA LMFT

Yin Li a marriage and family therapist licensed in California and Oregon and founder of Theralane. She works primarily with Asian Americans on a range of concerns ranging from challenging family dynamics, chronic relationship difficulties (romantic, love, family, work), life transitions, career challenges, identify questions, high functioning depression, and anxiety. Yin is very passionate about normalizing mental health, wellness, and therapy services in Asian communities. She has spoken and provided workshops on Asian American Mental Health and Wellness. For white identified clinicians working with Asian Americans, Yin is available for consultation.

Website www.theralane.com

Email: yin@theralane.com

Instagram: @theralane.counseling

In this episode we talk about:

Being called out by listener, Yin Li about not talking about Asian American and Pacific Islanders in our conversations about Race to date.
Thoughts on why AAPI individuals are often left out of the conversation or ignored
The “Model Minority” myth
The problem of using aggregate data
Language barriers and self-segregation
The problem of not knowing what we don’t know
Deep-rooted racism in the United States
How do we identify and address our blind spots
The factors that might enter into the perspective of AAPI individuals on getting therapy or entering the therapy profession
What to do when you identify this blind spot
Looking at what can be missed when working with AAPI clients
How race might come into the room, even if it is not the primary reason for treatment
Family immigration stories, language differences
Hoping space for cultural stories and the context in which your client lives
The problem of not talking about race with Asian American clients
How to get over the nervousness of talking about race with AAPI clients
How do the conversations relate to the needs of the client, with intention
The problem of addressing race and culture to check a box – which comes from a place of privilege
The complexity of mixed race – looking at unique factors
How integration as an individual is impacted by where one lives, with whom they live (e.g., AAPI child adopted into a white family, living in 2 cultures)
The importance of exploring the individual experience due to the complexity of the conversation
Developmental stages of cultural and racial identity
The impact of where you live on your sense of self
Marriage and Family Therapists: only 0.4% are AAPI
The assumption in all of therapeutic education that clients are white
The common requirement for AAPI therapists to learn on their own how to effectively treat AAPI clients
The value of consultation
What educators and professional associations can do to improve the situation
Calling out when the education is not enough
Messages Yin Li has for Asian American therapists

Clinical Marketing Apr 08, 2019

Show notes

An interview with Katie Read, LMFT about what it means to be a Therapreneur and the frequent mistakes that therapists make when writing their websites. Curt and Katie interviewed Katie about the unique challenges for therapist marketing and how to use Motivational Interviewing to improve your website.

To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.

Interview with Katie Read, LMFT

Katie Read, LMFT, helps therapists grow...then OUTgrow...their practices! Katie helps clinicians overcome scarcity-mindset, get clear on their most meaningful work, create highly-converting websites, and create additional income streams in coaching, consulting, course creation, and more!

Connect with Katie here:

www.katieread.com

www.facebook.com/groups/therapreneurs

www.facebook.com/therapreneurcoach

In this episode we talk about:

How crappy therapist websites are
The desire to move beyond the therapist office
What a “Therapreneur” is
How to outgrow the old ideas of what therapists can be
When therapists are pushed down for being “too big”
Debunking the idea that therapists are shy and mousy
What happens when you look beyond the office
The problems most therapists make when writing the copy for your website
The importance of using the clients’ language when describing clinical concerns
The scourge of psychobabble, academic, or jargon language used in websites
How to include your achievements and CV information on your website, if it is relevant for ideal client
What therapists bring to the marketing game
Why videos are important for your marketing
How to use Motivational Interviewing to write your website
The awful truth that we all respond to scarcity marketing
The unique challenge for marketing therapy (without scarcity as a possibility)
Where the marketing questions can go wrong
The tendency of therapists to copy other therapists in their marketing and water down their voice
Why so many people use Brene Brown quotes
Designing your profile to speak to your ideal clients
How to find your voice and the language you can use to speak to the clients you serve
The importance of Niche for marketing, specialization, training, and efficacy
The fear of turning away clients – and why that is short-sighted
How to grow by niching down sufficiently for your area

Attracted Clients Apr 01, 2019

Show notes

Curt and Katie talk about what to do when your clients report sexual or romantic transference. We look at how to explore these feelings, how to set boundaries, and what you need to be cautious about.

In this episode we talk about:

How normal it is that clients become attracted to their therapists.
The level of safety and intimacy in therapy can be so attractive to clients that they become romantically attracted to their therapist.
Examples of how this type of attraction can show up in the room
The caution to wait to jump to “Are you hitting on me?”
Looking at what is appropriate and inappropriate, especially given cultural differences
How supervisors can advise their supervisees in these situations
The difference between a misunderstood connection and physical attraction – and thoughts on how to handle each one
How physical appearance can impact the pre-treatment expectations
A study on Attractive Business Women – the idea of the Femme Fatale
Looking at how being gorgeous might impact your clinical work
Be authentically yourself, with the understanding of what societal bias could come up
When the clients start responding to the therapist as an individual, rather than the therapist or the therapy relationship – looking at transference/counter-transference
How hard it can be to talk about the client’s sexual attraction in the therapy room
Holding space – acceptance with clear boundaries
Making sure to address safety
Exploring the interplay between emotional intimacy and the expectation for sexual intimacy
How to set the boundaries in the psychotherapy relationship when attraction has been disclosed by the therapist
The caution to avoid shaming the client and how to do so
The importance of consultation during these types of situations
Factors that can impact these types of interactions in the treatment room
The safety factors and risks to be aware of, when facing sexual or romantic transference

Our Generous Sponsor:

Thanks again to our sponsor Katie Read! Katie helps therapists grow and they OUTgrow their practices. If you're in GROW mode, she can help you grow faster by knowing exactly how to create your therapist website to get the most possible calls with her two courses, Client Machine and Website Whisperer! If you're ready to OUTgrow your office, Katie helps clinicians know the exact right steps to add big extra income streams in coaching, consulting, or courses! Check out www.katieread.com for more information.

Resources mentioned:

We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links.

Article: Attractive businesswomen viewed as less trustworthy 'femmes fatales'

Our Facebook Group – The Modern Therapists Group

Therapy Reimagined 2019: Sign up here to get notified when the details are released.

Our CALL FOR SPEAKERS!!

Our consultation services:

The Fifty-Minute Hour

Credits:

Voice Over by DW McCann https://www.facebook.com/McCannDW/

Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano http://www.crystalmangano.com/

The Mental Load of Therapists Mar 25, 2019

Show notes

An interview with Shira Myrow, LMFT about how therapists carry a mental load for their clients, in addition to the load they carry as entrepreneurs and people. Curt and Katie talk with Shira about how to identify (and intervene) when therapists uncover this dangerous burden.

To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.

Interview with Shira Myrow, LMFT

Shira Myrow is a licensed marriage and family therapist, mindfulness educator and founder of the mindfulness based Yale St. Therapy Group based in Santa Monica where she works in private practice. Shira specializes in relationship intelligence—treating couples and marriages with a focus on rebuilding attunement, improving attachment, and creating emotional literacy. Shira also works with individuals in transition looking for love, in break up recovery or going through divorce. Shira has a special focus on treating adult children of severely mentally ill parents with attachment injuries, including parents with borderline personality disorder, bi-polar and schizophrenia. Shira is also a writer and a regular contributor for Goop online magazine.

You can learn more about Shira and contact her here:

Website www.shiramyrowtherapy.com/

Email: therapy.smyrow@gmail.com

Instagram: @shiramyrowlmft, @yalesstreettherapy

In this episode we talk about:

The definition of Mental Load, with some of the history of the concept
Curt’s admission that Katie is carrying the mental load of this business relationship
Invisible emotional labor of managing daily lives and relationships
The invisible emotional load that therapists carry for clients and how that might be leading to less respect from other medical professionals
How the mental load from work can negatively impact personal life
The importance of intentional disconnection from the work when going home.
How the mental load can stay in your body, even when you mentally or emotionally disconnect from the work
How mindfulness can help address this challenge
The danger of privileging productivity above all else
The idea of how to incorporate this knowledge into therapist training
The complexity of business ownership, modern life, the connectedness afforded by technology
The onslaught of information that we get as individuals in the world AND as therapists
Attunement and presence in session, with self-regulation, so you can do the work without feeling cold and disconnected
Allowing versus suppressing emotions – so you can observe and have emotions pass
Tips for identifying when the mental load is having an impact, how to prevent or respond
The negative impact of stress on our bodies
How society has acclimated to unhealthy levels of stress and technology
The unreasonable expectations that come from being plugged in
Losing empathy and connection
The human struggle to incorporate mindfulness
Economy of effort
“Life shouldn’t be reduced to a to do list” - Shira Myrow

Outside Obsessions Mar 18, 2019

Show notes

Curt and Katie talk about how therapists’ outside passions and pursuits can come into the therapy room. We talk about the thought, consideration, and intention that can help these elevate your practice, rather than hurt your clients.

In this episode we talk about:

Curt’s obsession with running marathons and talking about running in his therapy sessions
How your outside identity, hobbies, obsessions, etc. can impact your therapy sessions, your branding
How to identify if you can bring your outside stuff into the room
Acknowledging things that are obvious to clients, but with sensitivity and conscientiousness
When you need to align your niche with your outside passions
The possibility of triggering your clients and how to handle that
When your outside activities positively impact your work
The need to avoid over-identification when sharing hobbies or obsessions with your client
Self-disclosure is for the benefit of the client
Identifying what is yours and what is your client’s
How deliberate practice informs this decision
Grounding yourself before session, refocusing and making sure you stay present during session
How these activities can make ideas and interventions more tangible
The danger of advice giving when you are truly passionate about your activities
Making sure to be intentional about your relationship and your treatment by reviewing treatment goals prior to each session
Deliberate practice as a mechanism to make sure these obsessions don’t come into session in a negative way
Shared interests leading to connection and then short-hand that helps to move the relationship forward
Honesty and authenticity in the therapeutic relationship

Integrative Psychiatry Mar 11, 2019

Show notes

An interview with Lana Benedek, MD, integrative psychiatrist, on how psychiatry can be practiced differently (not just prescribing medication). Curt and Katie talk with Lana about the importance of focusing on the whole person and incorporating lifestyle changes and commonsense health practices like diet, exercise, sleep and mindfulness in the quest for sustained wellness.

To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.

Interview with Lana Benedek, MD

Lana Benedek, MD, is an integrative psychiatrist, consultant and teacher who has worked for more than 15 years with adolescents and adults, helping them to resolve issues of anxiety, depression and addiction. Throughout her career, Lana has been keenly interested in empowering individuals to create long-term healing beyond prescription medication and give them the tools to create lasting well-being. To that end, she has practiced mindfulness meditation and yoga for more than a decade, using it as a foundation for her own life and her approach to treatment. She currently facilitates mindfulness-based therapy groups for individuals with anxiety, depression and addiction throughout Los Angeles, including at the Mind Body Tree House and Resolutions Treatment Center. Additionally, she is on the clinical faculty of the University of Southern California (USC) where she teaches psychiatry trainees about mindfulness and self-care to reduce burnout and stress. Early in her medical career, Lana became interested in the marriage of medicine and other modalities of healing. During medical school while working on the pediatric ward of Howard Hospital in remote Zimbabwe, Lana became attuned to our society’s dependence on external medical treatments, which led her to begin practicing yoga and meditation. Later working with clients in the faculty practice, at USC and within the student health center at University of California at Los Angeles, she saw the benefits of incorporating mindfulness-based practices within her therapy.

You can learn more about Lana Benedek, MD at https://drbenedek.com.

In this episode we talk about:

What Integrative Psychiatry is and what it is not
The importance of mind, body, and community
Why to focus on root causes and not symptoms
How psychiatry can actually focus on least invasive methods, rather than going straight to medication
Strengths, individuals’ ability to heal themselves
Integrating traditional and alternative methods for healing
Walking your talk as a practitioner
The goal of sustained wellness, rather than symptom remission
Mindfulness and mindfulness-based therapies
How the system has evolved to having psychiatrists being the prescribers
Risks and benefits of medication
How medicine cannot address the underlying causes of symptoms
The risk of dependence and withdrawal
The importance of the scientific rigor in choosing interventions
When clinical experience and values-based medicine are needed
The importance of an anti-inflammatory diet: vegetables, good fats, legumes, lean proteins, nuts and seeds, whole grains
How your diet can make you depressed
Exercise is just as good as an antidepressant for your mood
The importance of sleep
The commonsense ways to help yourself feel better
How to collaborate with an integrative psychiatrist
Promoting Mental Wellness
Looking at strengths and the whole person, rather than symptoms within a rigid treatment framework
Psychoeducation on the causes of your mental health concerns

Antitrust for Therapists Mar 04, 2019

Show notes

Curt and Katie talk about antitrust laws – how they impact therapists, how to avoid concerns, and what to pay attention to when you’re a therapist.

In this episode we talk about:

Sherman Antitrust Law
Why antitrust laws are important
Looking at insurance companies and the discrepancy that therapists are more held to antitrust than insurance companies for complicated reasons
Therapy practices are businesses and in competition with each other
Price Fixing and Market Share agreements
The problem and risk with group boycotts
The difference between colluding and discussing publicly available information
How competition discussing fees in small Facebook groups can lead to price fixing
The Cardigan Cartel
How to communicate fees and discuss insurance issues without getting into antitrust issues
Individuals on insurance panels are still competitors
How Antitrust can be anti-consumer
What the risks are for discussing pros and cons of different insurance panels
How to avoid anti-trust problems
Why you should talk to an attorney if you’re concerned
How interstate commerce relates to antitrust and how Insurance Plans can play a game to get out of all of this
The differences between employees who can strike and separate businesses banding together
How Single-Payer relates to this topic
How associations play into this and why they can survey their members on fees and other aspects of their businesses
The difference between being responsible as a business owner and following the trends
Sharing information, without making decisions and planning together
How often therapists or other healthcare providers get in trouble for antitrust concerns, as well as related licenses
Publicly available information is safe to discuss
Share information, but don’t put a call to action to do something with your colleagues