The Modern Therapist's Survival Guide with Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy

Latest Episodes:

Unlearning Very Bad Therapy Feb 17, 2020

Show notes

An interview with Carrie Wiita and Ben Fineman, MFT Trainees and the co-hosts of the Very Bad Therapy podcast. Curt and Katie interview Ben and Carrie about their experience as graduate students and mental health advocates. We look at the short-falls of the educational system as well as the mythologies that stagnate the profession. We talk about how to improve therapy and the training we receive.

It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. We are human beings who can now present ourselves as whole people, with authenticity, purpose, and connection. Especially now, when therapists must develop a personal brand to market their practices.

To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.

Interview with Carrie Wiita and Ben Fineman, Marriage and Family Therapist Trainees and Co-Hosts of the Very Bad Therapy podcast

Very Bad Therapy gives voice to the stores that begin with an exasperated "You would not believe what happened with my therapist." Weekly episodes explore real-life stories of very bad therapy experiences as hosts Caroline Wiita and Ben Fineman seek to learn from diverse guests and experts in the field who help shed light on how things could have gone better. Supported by scientific research and a mission to bring out the best in psychotherapy through discussion of its worst moments, Very Bad Therapy is a corrective emotional experience for clinicians and clients alike.

In this episode we talk about:

How Curt is responsible for Carrie and Ben meeting (and how proud he is of that fact)
What is missing in therapist education and how to look at the profession of therapy critically
What we are told when we enter into the field and what the reality actually is
How going to grad school and listening to MTSG Podcast can be super confusing
The research that says therapists do not get better with experience
The mythologies in the profession that stop us from being curious
The disappointment in the status quo and the failure to move into the cutting edge
The stagnation of the field when we have the same people talking about the same things
The inconsistency of the faculty and their ability/desire to teach graduate students in therapy
Problems with graduate programs related to the bureaucracy and misinformation
Ben Caldwell’s Saving Psychotherapy (of course)
Feedback on the Very Bad Therapy podcast (and how Carrie and Ben have taken it in)
The importance of research, grounding in laws, ethics, clinical excellence, when challenging the status quo
The willingness to make mistakes publicly and be transparent with accountability to normalize mistakes and reinforce that we are not perfect and cannot be perfect as therapists
The role of defensiveness in very bad therapy
The problem of perfectionism in the field
Minimizing risk and maximizing “joining” or developing the therapeutic relationship
How harmful the communication between therapists can be
The impact of bias on the work
How to improve your training

Structuring Self-Care Feb 10, 2020

Show notes

Curt and Katie talk about structuring self-care into your business practices. We look at how to incorporate self-care best practices into the way you build your work day. We also talk about common challenges to taking this advice.

It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.

In this episode we talk about:

Creating a cohesive plan for self-care in all aspects of your work
Incorporating the concept of Flow into your work practices
Defining Flow – the thoughts about losing yourself or being incredibly mindful
The absence of mental load that occurs when you are doing the things that you are good at and enjoy most
Decision fatigue, spoon theory
Identifying how to set up your day strategically
Studying your energy and motivation at different times of day
The importance of rest, balancing of stress and rest to increase stamina
The times when creativity comes are not when you’re working
Working to prevent burnout, rather than manage it after it happens
Intentionally scheduling rest and rejuvenating activities
What types of rest are effective and what types of rest are ineffective
The danger of the ideas of productivity and hustle
The inefficiency of continuous running
How to structure your schedule effectively
Ritual and routine, grounding and mindfulness
Creating systems to decrease the required number of decisions you need to make each day
How the people around you elevate you or pull you down
Intentionally separating “work” from home
Closing out, decompression, and consultation

Resources mentioned:

We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below are affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance!

2020 Kauai Continuing Education Retreat for Therapists Hosted by CAV Academy

Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi

When: The Scientific Secrets of Perfect Timing by Daniel Pink

Peak Performance: Elevate Your Game, Avoid Burnout, and Thrive with the New Science of Success by Brad Stulberg and Steve Magness

Spoon Theory

Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain by Betty Edwards

Therapy Reimagined 2020 Call for Speakers

Therapy Reimagined 2020 Call for Sponsors

Relevant Episodes:

Self-Care, Self-Compassion, and Self-Awareness for Therapists

The Danger of Poor Self-Care for Therapists

Compassion Fatigue

Therapists in Therapy

Toxic Work Environments

Managing Vicarious Trauma

The Burnout System

Addressing the Burnout System

The Mental Load of Therapists

All Kinds of Burned Out

Connect with us!

Our Facebook Group – The Modern Therapists Group

Get Notified About Therapy Reimagined 2020 (and TR2019 Virtual Conference)

Our consultation services:

The Fifty-Minute Hour

Credits:

Voice Over by DW McCann https://www.facebook.com/McCannDW/

Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano http://www.crystalmangano.com/

Suicidal Therapists Feb 03, 2020

Show notes

An interview with Norine Vander Hooven, LCSW about therapists who become suicidal. Curt and Katie interview Norine on the risk factors that therapists face as well as how we can support each other in our community. We talk about prevention, interventions with a colleague, and how to manage when a colleague dies by suicide.

To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.

Interview with Norine Vander Hooven, LCSW

Norine Vander Hooven is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker and has been in practice for 32 years. She specializes in trauma, anxiety, suicide prevention, and life transitions. Norine is also certified in EMDR therapy, and is in training to be an EMDR therapy consultant. She uses this to work with people with PTSD, anxiety, and traumatic life events. Norine provides clinical consultation for therapists, as well as she works with young adults and adults in her private practice. Learn more at norinevanderhooven.com

In this episode we talk about:

Following up on a previous episode, Therapist Suicide.
Looking at supervisors who have died by suicide
The lack of research and data regarding therapist suicide (both ideation and completion)
The fear and stigma about disclosing suicidal ideation and attempts for therapists
The difference between therapists and others in suicide risk
Heightened risk factors for therapists
How therapists take in the work with their clients
The isolation and lack of support that can happen with therapists
Suggestions for therapists to address suicidal thoughts, isolation, loneliness
Belonging, Burden, and Capability
The importance of community and consultation
The suggestion to be in your own therapy
Incorporating self-care even down to the small moments during the work day
How to incorporate knowledge about the challenge of the profession into our educational system
The shame therapists feel (both perceived and actual) about mental health challenges
How to support therapists who might be experiencing suicidal thoughts
How to provide therapy to therapists, incorporating conversations and assessment about suicide from the beginning, normalizing the experience and challenge of being a therapist
Supporting therapists in our community
Planning for postvention – comprehensive conversations after therapists have clients die by suicide or other big events in our colleagues’ lives
The importance of normalizing the feelings that therapists could be presenting with in consultation groups
What can we do when one of our colleagues die by suicide
The typical reactions and responses from colleagues, clients, and community members
Preparing to have a conversation with a client whose therapist has died by suicide

Preventing Client Suicide Jan 27, 2020

Show notes

An interview with Norine Vander Hooven, LCSW about assessing suicide appropriately for our clients from the beginning of treatment. Curt and Katie talk with Norine about what therapists often miss with their clients and how to treat suicidality when it comes up.

To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.

Interview with Norine Vander Hooven, LCSW

In this episode we talk about:

Norine’s story and how she entered into suicidology
How to appropriately assess for Suicide Risk from the beginning of treatment
What needs to be asked in your intake
The fear that therapists have in deeply looking at suicide with clients
The importance of exploring traumas from birth for clients
Why “die by suicide” is so much better than “committed” suicide
What #notsix means (how many people are actually affected by a single suicide)
Risk factors for suicidality: lack of belonging, feeling of being a burden, capability
What therapists often miss when assessing for suicide
The need to understand the client’s perception of the level of crisis around suicidality
Old school assessments and safety contracts that are not useful, and what to use instead
Who is most at risk for suicidal thoughts
What to consider in assessing for suicidality with clients who don’t appear to be at risk
Different types of suicidal thoughts
Searching for hope and forward thinking in life
Types of treatment modalities to address all types of suicidal thoughts
How to successfully assess, safety plan, and address suicide head on

Therapists on Your Couch Jan 20, 2020

Show notes

Curt and Katie talk about the nuance of treating therapists in therapy. We look at the unique dynamics in the therapeutic relationship as well as common traps to avoid.

In this episode we talk about:

The lack of research or guidance on how to treat therapists in therapy
How different are therapists as therapy clients
What it is like to have a therapist for a therapy client
What to assess for with therapists
The importance of looking at what the presenting problem is
The expectation that therapists would be different that other clients
The therapeutic alliance and dual relationship conversations
The dynamic of making assumptions about therapists as clients
The theme of competition between client and therapist
Therapists overidentifying with therapist clients and making inaccurate assumptions
A different type of presenting problem and length of treatment
Common coping strategies (i.e., rationalization, focusing on cognition, non-judgmental, disconnect from feelings) that need to be overcome more with therapist clients
Clarifying the role and rules in the room, so we can take off the armor
Avoiding the temptation of staying in intellect and insight
Pushing for some comparison to other clients – reassurance, validation, vulnerability, trying to please or take care of the therapist
The importance of the therapist holding the container, so the therapist-client can do their work
How to navigate the differences between being a therapist and a supervisor or a manager
How therapists are like other clients, but totally different

Resources mentioned:

We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links.

Therapy Reimagined 2020 Call for Speakers

Relevant Episodes:

Therapists in Therapy

Connect with us!

Our Facebook Group – The Modern Therapists Group

Get Notified About Therapy Reimagined 2020 (and TR2019 Virtual Conference)

Our consultation services:

The Fifty-Minute Hour

Credits:

Voice Over by DW McCann https://www.facebook.com/McCannDW/

Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano http://www.crystalmangano.com/

Iran, The News, and Your Clients Jan 13, 2020

Show notes

An interview with Pardis Mahdavi, PhD, and Negeen Moussavian, AMFT, regarding Iran, current events, and how the news might impact Iranian clients.

To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.

Interview with Pardis Mahdavi, PhD and Negeen Moussavian, AMFT

Pardis Mahdavi, PhD is currently Director of the School for Social Transformation at Arizona State University. Before coming to Arizona, she was Acting Dean of the Korbel School of International Studies at the University of Denver (2017-2019), after spending eleven years at Pomona College from 2006-2017 where she most recently served as professor and chair of anthropology and director of the Pacific Basin Institute at Pomona College as well as Dean of Women. Her research interests include gendered labor, human trafficking, migration, sexuality, human rights, transnational feminism, and public health in the context of changing global and political structures. She has published four single authored books and one edited volume in addition to numerous journal and news articles. She has been a fellow at the Social Sciences Research Council, the American Council on Learned Societies, Google Ideas, and the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars. In 2018 she was appointed by Colorado Governor John Hickenlooper and re-appointed by Governor Jared Polis to serve on the Colorado Commission on Higher Education.

Negeen Moussavian is a Registered Associate Marriage and Family Therapist (#107771) working under the supervision of Curt Widhalm LMFT (#47333) in Encino, CA. She received her Master of Arts in Clinical Psychology with an emphasis in Marriage & Family Therapy from Pepperdine University. She works with clients dealing with relationships, dating, infidelity, and trauma. Additionally, she works with Iranian-American clients on issues surrounding identity, generational trauma, and other culture specific topics. She implements a combination of holistic and traditional therapy practices, including EMDR therapy.

In this episode we talk about:

Current events in Iran as well as historical context
Liminality – the feeling of not belonging here or there
The importance of being informed
The uncertainty that can lead to fear and then to hate
The crushing tsunami wave of islamophobia that is coming in the United States
How significant events related to Iran impact Iranian-Americans
The dramatic changes within Iran
How therapists can help Iranian families to cope with the impacts of current events

We Can't Help Ourselves Jan 06, 2020

Show notes

Curt and Katie talk about how difficult it is for therapists to take care of ourselves. We look at why we struggle with the self-care that we teach our clients, including shaming in our field, lack of connection to our shadow-self, and where we seek support.

In this episode we talk about:

Why the Giving Tree is a bad role model
Road blocks therapists put in their own way
Katie’s notion of Sacrificial Helping
The wounded healer concept
The reasons we do not take care of ourselves
How we define our value, especially related to the idea that our value is to help others
The harm of valuing productivity over all else
The search for meaning – what we do is meaningful to us
Volunteering on top of the work we do
The idea that you can be impacted by the therapy you do
The role that the shadow self plays
The strict, externalized parent and oppositionality
The shame for not “self-caring” enough or believing in the “right” form or health from our field
Burnout’s effect on decision-making
The lack of training on how to use the coping strategies on yourself
How to make decisions better about self-care as a therapist
Opening space for mistakes in our field
How relational therapies can be a solution for therapists who are grappling with their own stuff
Where to seek support (and where not to seek support)
Intention versus reactivity

Resources mentioned:

We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links.

The Giving Tree by Shel Silverstein

Lori Gottlieb, MFT

Irvin Yalom, MD

Therapy Reimagined 2020 Call for Speakers

Relevant Episodes:

Self-Care, Self-Compassion, and Self-Awareness for Therapists

Vulnerability, Mistakes, and The Imposter Syndrome

The Danger of Poor Self-Care for Therapists

Compassion Fatigue

Therapists in Therapy

Toxic Work Environments

Managing Vicarious Trauma

The Burnout System

Addressing the Burnout System

The Mental Load of Therapists

All Kinds of Burned Out

Impaired Therapists

Therapist Suicide

When is it Discrimination?

Connect with us!

Our Facebook Group – The Modern Therapists Group

Get Notified About Therapy Reimagined 2020 (and TR2019 Virtual Conference)

Our consultation services:

The Fifty-Minute Hour

Credits:

Voice Over by DW McCann https://www.facebook.com/McCannDW/

Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano http://www.crystalmangano.com/

Special Episode: Striking for the Future of Mental Healthcare Dec 23, 2019

Show notes

Special Episode: Curt and Katie talk about the recent NUHW- Kaiser Permanente Mental Health Worker Strike. Katie interviews a National Union of Healthcare Workers representative, Dr. Kenneth Rogers. We then both reflect on the interview and a statement from Kaiser Permanente, especially related to the implications for the profession as a whole.

In this episode we talk about:

The implications of the strike for all mental healthcare workers
A statement from Kaiser Permanente
An interview with Dr. Kenneth Rogers, shop steward and member of the bargaining team for NUHW
The focus of the strike – looking at what the Union is requesting
What a shop steward is, how the union works, what the bargaining table looks like
The bureaucracy and distance that impacts the bargaining
The different perspectives of each side
The complexity of the decision making, the strategy of Kaiser Permanente
The possibilities that Katie sees related to state-of-the-art mental health services
The goal of transforming the model of care
The inefficiencies that lead to lower productivity, the focus needed to improve care
The positives in the current Kaiser proposal
The hope of coming together to work on the future of mental healthcare
The lack of parity in how mental healthcare workers are treated versus other professionals in Kaiser, looking at the perceived payment philosophy
NUHW goal for the mental health system of care – solely getting to the basic standard of care
The lack of trust between Kaiser and NUHW and the complexity of the decision-making
Rogers’ reflections on the survival guide tips and the impact of the strike on clinicians and patients, advice for the striking clinicians
The impact of Kaiser’s payment philosophy on other workplaces (Curt busting out some economic theory from Richard Thayler)
The importance of the union work on wages in other workplaces
Parity for mental health professionals and what that means for mental health parity
Call to action to stay informed, step up and advocacy

Resources mentioned:

We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links.

National Union of Healthcare Workers: NUHW

NUHW Facebook Page

Kaiser Don’t Deny

Union Representative Dr. Kenneth Rogers bio:

Kenneth Rogers, Psy.D. is a psychologist who has worked with the Kaiser Permanente Medical Group for the past 16 years. He has worked at the Fremont, Santa Clara, and Campbell Medical Centers in the past and currently works at the Elk Grove clinic near South Sacramento. He has been a shop steward for NUHW since its inception in 2009 and has been on the NUHW Executive Board since 2015. Dr. Rogers was a member of the 2010-2015 contract bargaining team and he remains a member of the current bargaining committee since July, 2018.

Los Angeles Times Article

The Kaiser Permanente ACE Study

Economic Theory: Nobel Prize Winning Economist Richard Thayler – Anomalies: Inter-industry Wage Differentials

Relevant Episodes:

Modern Therapists Strike Back

Connect with us!

Our Facebook Group – The Modern Therapists Group

Get Notified About Therapy Reimagined 2020 (and TR2019 Virtual Conference)

Our consultation services:

The Fifty-Minute Hour

Credits:

Voice Over by DW McCann https://www.facebook.com/McCannDW/

Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano http://www.crystalmangano.com/

A Living Wage for Prelicensees Dec 16, 2019

Show notes

Curt and Katie talk about the advocacy efforts to make paying prelicensed individuals a best practice. We talk about a statement recently approved by CAMFT, looking at the process, the implications, and a call to action.

In this episode we talk about:

A public statement approved at the most recent meeting of California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists
The supporting information that suggests that paying prelicensed individuals is a best practice of supervision
The importance of a living wage, benefits, and meaningful work
Curt’s journey in support of this statement
The ability (and the challenge) for each of us in these types of advocacy efforts.
The call to action to take this statement to your own professional organization
The type of push back to expect and how to address it
Laws and best practices versus implementation and accountability
Addressing bad actors and the goal of keeping good actors good
How a single voice can be silenced, but a movement can make a difference
The mission of the #therapymovement to leave our profession better
A second call to action for you to stand up and advocate for the necessary changes you see

Resources mentioned:

We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links.

California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists

The Public Board book from the December CAMFT board meeting (statement on pg. 204-206)

References:

Abel, J. R., Deitz, R., & Su, Y. (2014) Are recent college graduates finding good jobs? Current Issues in Economics and Finance, 20(1). Available at SSRN: https://ssrn.com/abstract=2378472

Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA). (2014). Trauma Informed Care in Behavioral Health Service: Treatment Improvement Protocol (TIP) Series 57. Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, Rockville, MD.

Crain, A. (2016). Understanding the impact of unpaid internships on college student career development and employment outcomes. NACE Journal. Available at https://www.naceweb.org/job-market/internships/exploring-the-implications-of-unpaidinternships/.

Eby, L. T., Burk, H., & Maher, C. P. (2010). How serious of a problem is staff turnover in substance abuse treatment? A longitudinal study of actual turnover. Journal of Substance Abuse Treatment, 39, 264–271.

Hickman, B. (2014, July 23). What we learned exploring unpaid internships. Retrieved from https://www.propublica.org/article/what-we-learned-investigating-unpaid-internships

Hoge, M. A., Morris, J. A., Daniels, A. S., Stuart, G. W., Huey, L. Y., & Adams, N. (2007). An action plan for behavioral health workforce development. Annapolis Coalition on the Behavioral Health Workforce: Cincinnati, OH.

Knudsen, H. K., Johnson, J. A., & Roman, P. M. (2003). Retaining counseling staff at substance abuse treatment centers: Effects of management practices. Journal of Substance Abuse Treatment, 24(2), 129- 135.

Relevant Episodes:

Defining the Therapy Movement

Trauma Informed Work Place

Joining Your Association

Modern Therapists Strike Back

Let’s Get Political

Building Hope for the Next Generation of Therapists

The Fight to Save Psychotherapy

Getting Personal to Advocate for Compassion, Understanding, and Social Justice

Connect with us!

Our Facebook Group – The Modern Therapists Group

Get Notified About Therapy Reimagined 2020 (and TR2019 Virtual Conference)

Our consultation services:

The Fifty-Minute Hour

Credits:

Voice Over by DW McCann https://www.facebook.com/McCannDW/

Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano http://www.crystalmangano.com/

Get Paid to Speak Dec 09, 2019

Show notes

An interview with Dr. Laura Louis, CEO of Couch to Podium, on how to move into public speaking as a therapist. We look at best practices, what therapists get wrong, and how to get started.

To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.

Interview with Dr. Laura Louis, CEO of Couch to Podium.

Dr. Laura Louis is the founder of the Couch to Podium academy which consists of a Facebook community, Courses Retreats, Seminars and a Mastermind. Dr. Louis teaches therapists and counselors all about the business side of speaking. She was able to book over 40 speaking engagements last year alone AND build a steady stream of speaking engagements.

Dr. Louis has conducted over one hundred paid speaking engagements nationally and internationally. She has negotiated travel, and expenses along with $3000 speaking fees. Dr. Louis' clients have launched paid speaking gigs, developed retreats and launched programs.

Dr. Louis has been featured on NBC, has been asked to speak for the American Psychological Association Conference and The National Sales Conference.

In this episode we talk about:

Laura’s program that teaches therapists how to move from doing therapy to booking paid speaking engagements
Speaking as an option to scale your business
The importance of you identifying your ideal client and what you teach them – that’s a talk
Identifying how to create the talk and who to pitch speaking to
Supporting your own dreams by being within a circle that is supportive
The benefit of getting unpaid experience in speaking (visibility, becoming comfortable, flowing through your talk, etc.)
Toastmasters as a great training ground
Building your list while speaking, so you can continue to support your audience after the talk
Social proof and understanding the experience – photos and videos – help you book speaking engagements
Monetizing your speaking through other offerings, back of room sales, licensing, etc.
Speaking to your target market to increase clients
Understanding how to assess what you can get out of speaking
Mindset changes needed to ask for pay or other benefits from speaking
Looking at the whole experience and benefits to determine whether you would like to take a speaking engagement
How to find paid speaking engagements
The need to adjust language to pitch to decision-making (pain points, solutions, without psycho-jargon)
The different types of applications, best practices
The differences between putting your own events on versus speaking for other people’s events
The ability to make money if you master the details of putting on your own live events
The need to understand sales and marketing to move forward with speaking
The time investment required when becoming a paid speaker