The Modern Therapist's Survival Guide with Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy

Latest Episodes:

Grad Programs Moving Online Nov 23, 2020

Show notes

Grad Programs Moving Online

Curt and Katie chat about the quick move to online learning when the pandemic hit. We talk about the challenges with virtual platforms – what has worked and what has not. We look at the decisions related to starting or continuing therapist education at this time. We also talk about the opportunities that have been gained and ideas for students and professors on how to more effectively approach online graduate programs.

It’s time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age.

In this episode we talk about:

Graduate programs for therapists moving online during the pandemic
The education one applied for is vastly different from what you’re getting right now
The rapid shift to online education and lack of deliberate choices to shift how to teach
Synchronous and asynchronous elements of education
The requirement for faculty to learn and utilize technology effectively
A lack of interaction due to polite students keeping their mics off
The spoke and wheel conversations that impact how learning happens
The lack of guidance on how to create truly effective online education
Navigating time on screens
Role plays translating into learning telehealth, rather than in-person therapy
The lack of interaction with the material, more passive learning
Developing clinical efficacy for telehealth
The uncertainty of the efficacy of clinical work in the newer space of telehealth
The impact on discussions social justice, racial and cultural identity, due to the ability to opt out of the conversation in online education
The importance of figuring out how people learn and how it applies to the online space
Should people delay or pause education?
What the impacts on the workforce might be
Opportunities within the online learning space, especially when the technology is well used
Theoretical versus practical base
The need to have more deliberate and direct conversations to create connections that may have happened organically
The adjustments and planning that may improve the situation
Different factors that impact each student’s and each professor’s ability to engage
Looking at expectations, support, and needed infrastructure
What students can do to better access education during this time
Developing personal relationships with professors
Putting together options to increase connection and interaction with peers
Seeking career mentorship and synchronous conversations
Moving from venting and commiserating to advocacy within the system
The ability to make changes, be nimble, and put forward a collective voice

Career Trekking with MTSG Nov 16, 2020

Show notes

Career Trekking with MTSG

An interview with Marissa Esquibel, LMFT on her journey from community mental health to private practice. Curt and Katie talk with Marissa about how she used the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide podcast to shift her mindset and change her career trajectory. Marissa highlights the benefits of belief, guidance, and community.

Interview with Marissa Esquibel, LMFT

“Though she be but little, she is fierce.”

– Shakespeare

Marissa Esquibel is not like a regular therapist, she’s a cool therapist. With her practice located near Los Angeles, Marissa is on a one-woman mission to empower young women to stop playing small and to start taking up space. She works exclusively with young adults, 20-something’s, who are checking off all the boxes of “success,” and yet, they feel like failures internally. They often come to Marissa dealing with depression, anxiety, imposter syndrome, or codependency. As an undergraduate, she attended UC Santa Barbara and then received her Masters in Clinical Psychology from California State University, Fullerton. In September of 2018, she became licensed and opened-up shop to her virtual therapy practice in March 2020. When Marissa is not in session with patients, she spends her time reading, hanging out with friends and family, binging on podcasts and audiobooks, attending her own therapy, and making sure to get her 10,000 steps a day. She loves her work, job, and life and looks forward to connecting with you.

Learn more about Marissa at therapywithmarissa.com

In this episode we talk about:

Marissa’s burnout story and how she made the trek from community mental health to private practice
Reflections on the question: what do therapists get wrong (and the self-analysis and feedback informed nature of the question)
The idea of self-sacrifice and hard work being required to be a good therapist
The importance of critical thinking regarding what is effective, what is healthy for me
How Marissa made the decision to move to a group practice and then her own private practice
Marissa’s experience at Therapy Reimagined 2019 and her follow up with speakers
The need for belief, guidance, and community
Marissa talks about the episodes that helped her to move forward
How Marissa implemented a new plan for her career
“I choose this agony, this heart ache, this effort” – Marissa Esquibel, LMFT
Marissa’s choice to be vulnerable at this time and to keep on going
The determination and belief that has kept Marissa moving forward on her vision and mission
The need to hear from (and connecting with) people at each stage of career development

Quarantine Self-Care for Therapists Nov 09, 2020

Show notes

Quarantine Self-Care for Therapists

Curt and Katie chat about the challenges for therapists during the pandemic. We look at what is unique to therapists’ experiences, causes of burnout, and ways in which therapists can work to protect their mental health and wellness during this time.

In this episode we talk about:

How therapists can take care of themselves during this time
The risks for burnout during COVID – study in the Asian Journal of Psychiatry
Taking on clients’ emotions, reacting together in real time
Compassion fatigue and vicarious trauma
The strain of “in this together”
Lack of the usual go-to self-care practices
Lack of in-person community and connection
Difficulty in getting feedback related to how we’re being received
Not knowing if we’re providing effective therapy
The concept of stasis, and just waiting for things to go back to normal
Longer term therapy due to lack of progress or on-going stressors
The lack of distraction from work or other responsibilities
The danger of filling time with work
The struggle or concern related to raising fees during a pandemic
How work may have become more of a grind
Lack of creativity or inspiration
The importance of taking a self-assessment
Realistic expectations
Priorities and values
All the roles we are playing right now
What resources do we have available to us?
Creating separation between work and personal space (through physical separation, ritual, structure)
How to identify opportunities with what is happening now
Identifying new challenges and risks, how to mitigate risks
Creating a sustainable situation even if it is just for now
Managing your schedule
Connecting with your community, so you don’t feel so isolated
The importance of breaks

All Things Group Therapy Nov 02, 2020

Show notes

All Things Group Therapy

An interview with Katie K. May, of Become a Group Guru, about creating effective therapy groups. Curt and Katie talk with Katie May about the clinical elements of group creation as well as the business elements that support effective groups. We look at screening, developing the group container, and curriculum considerations.

Interview with Katie K. May, LPC, The Group Guru

Katie K. May is a licensed therapist and online course creator. She helps therapists market and fill groups and online group programs so that they can scale their impact and increase their income, without adding more hours in the office. To learn more and gain access to free trainings and resources to generate new clients like magic, visit www.becomeagroupguru.com

In this episode we talk about:

Building and running therapy groups
Why therapists wait too long to build their therapy groups
The challenge of knowing when to actually start a group
Language to use in marketing a group you’ve not started
The different types of groups you can provide
The importance of aligning your client and your curriculum
How to create your own curriculum
The group container that is built
The anxiety that many therapists face when looking to develop a group
How group therapy can align with treatment goals
How to talk with your individual therapy clients to move into group
Overcoming imposter syndrome when moving into providing group therapy
Innovative ways to start to develop group norms, goals, and cohesion
The skills we have from other elements of being a therapist that we can use within group
Different activity ideas that support group members talking to each other
Screening criteria for inclusion and exclusion
How to navigate clients who may not be appropriate for group, or may show up differently in the group versus how they show up for initial screening
Navigating to online group therapy during the pandemic
Consciously talking about how to be together online
Looking at the logistics of telehealth groups (i.e., platforms that work for groups)
How to start a group – clarity on who the group is for, what group members are experiencing, and what outcomes are you offering
Providing group to your individual clients
How to assess interest for group
Different ways to learn about doing group and the power of learning by doing

Online Therapy Apps Oct 26, 2020

Show notes

Online Therapy Apps

Curt and Katie chat about online platforms that hire clinicians to provide therapy through their apps. We look at how companies like Talkspace and BetterHelp operate related to their workforce, customer data use, and effective client care. We look at the potential for increased mental health access. We also talk about the risks as well as ethical and legal concerns that clinicians may face if they choose to provide services through these apps.

In this episode we talk about:

The different telehealth platforms that hire therapists
The boundary and privacy issues identified at Talkspace from a NY Times article
The use of customer data
Clinical efficacy
Risk and liability issues related to incorporating Artificial Intelligence into treatment
How the platforms work on the clinician side, how clinician gets paid
The packages that clients get on word limits, etc. where they may have to renew early to continue treatment
The potential clinical issues with how therapists get paid in these apps
What is incentivized for therapists on these platforms
The boon to mental health access and treatment flexibility from these apps, including text, phone, and video (synchronous and asynchronous communication)
The caution about these apps growing beyond their capacity to serve clients
The types of clients who are good candidates for these platforms
The concern about clients being anonymous to their therapists
Managing escalating risk without sufficient information
“Counselor” versus “Counseling” services, which provides some cover related to requirements for therapy services and for employee concerns
The potential for practicing across state lines
The Talkspace memo about practicing across state lines and the app paying for legal fees
The legal and ethical risks for practicing across state lines, no matter the help from Talkspace

Rating manipulation – false reviews

Biden and Trump on Mental Health Oct 19, 2020

Show notes

Biden and Trump on Mental Health

Curt and Katie chat about policies, promises, and actions taken by President Donald Trump and Vice President Joe Biden related to mental health. We look at mental health parity, the Affordable Care Act, Medicaid, prisons, funding priorities, as well as the importance of voting.

In this episode we talk about:

The promises and the actions taken by President Trump and Vice President Biden on mental health
Mental Health Parity and the Affordable Care Act
Medicaid Funding and Social Services
Prison and Jail Systems
Mental Health workforce
The difference between budget allotments and how much money actually gets to the programs
The opioid epidemic
Suicide prevention and veterans
How the candidates talk about mental health and drug abuse
Trumps attack on Hunter Biden and desire to reopen mental institutions
Control and punishment versus prevention and support
Biden normalizing mental health care
The importance of voting

Treating Political Reactionism and the War on Science Oct 12, 2020

Show notes

Treating Political Reactionism and the War on Science

An interview with Dr. Tereza Capelos on why people become politically reactionary, as well as how this orientation also leads to an anti-science and anti-progress stance. Curt and Katie talk with Tereza about the research behind political reactionism, looking at the characteristics of someone who is primed to be politically reactive. We also talk about how therapists can help clients address this harmful dynamic.

Interview with Dr. Tereza Capelos, Director of the Institute for Conflict Cooperation and Security at the University of Birmingham, and Senior Lecturer in Political Psychology

Dr Tereza Capelos is Senior Lecturer in Political Psychology, Director at the Institute for Conflict, Cooperation and Security (ICCS) at the University of Birmingham (UoB), President Elect of the International Society of Political Psychology, and co-chair of the Political Psychology Standing Group of the European Consortium of Political Research. Tereza’s research examines the psychological determinants of political preferences with particular focus on political reactionism, resentful affect and political radicalization during crises and tensions. She is currently co-editing a special issue titled “Reactionary Politics and Resentful Affect in Populist Times”. She has a PhD from Stony Brook University (USA) and worked at the University of Leiden and the University of Surrey. She serves on the editorial board of five international journals, and co-edits the Palgrave Series in Political Psychology. Tereza founded and directed the Summer Academy training program of the International Society of Political Psychology (ISPP, 2011-2016) and currently directs two graduate programs (MSc Political Psychology of IR, and MSc Global Cooperation and Security) at UoB.

In this episode we talk about:

Intersection between psychology and politics
Research on voters who are politically reactive
Political Reactionism – how it is created and what it looks like
The role of shame, fear, resentment, and anger in voting
Anti-preference – to want to move backward, rather than forward
Uncertainty, feelings of resentment, perception of injustice
Populism as a mechanism to devalue what you cannot have, find who is at fault, how to turn things back to a better time
The lure of the idealized or fictional past
Reactionism is not related to a specific ideology – can happen on the left or right
Feelings and beliefs are more likely to drive decisions than ideology
The way that a reactionary orientation can lead to problematic behaviors
The problem with being anti-progress, especially related to solving the problems we are facing
The difficulty reactionaries with engaging with science
Seeking to prove, with confirmation bias – rather than to testing hypotheses
The anti-expert sentiment that is based in this problem with science and with uncertainty
The insight required to identify when we become reactionary
How people label the emotions related to reactionism (and the problem with not knowing how to identify and label our emotions)
What therapists can do to help vent emotions related to the resentment that leads to a reactionary orientation
Helping people to see neutral and positive uncertainty – rather than only negative uncertainty
Bringing people into the scientific method, disappointing them that they will not be “proving” or “confirming,” but rather “testing”

Therapy for Intercountry Transracial Adoptees Oct 05, 2020

Show notes

Therapy for Intercountry Transracial Adoptees

An interview with Moses Farrow, LMFT on adoption, mental health and the experiences as an adoptee doing adoption therapy. Curt and Katie explore with Moses key aspects of being an intercountry transracial adoptee, implications for therapy, the importance of race and culture and addressing racism. We also discuss the importance of being an adoptee as an adoption therapist and the biggest issues facing adoptees including suicide and what is being done to help.

Interview with Moses Farrow, LMFT

Moses Farrow, LMFT is a Korean adoptee adoption-focused therapist in private practice. In his capacities as an advocate, program coordinator, and direct service provider, Moses has supported adoption reform, child abuse prevention, anti-racism, and the destigmatization of mental health. Currently, one of his primary interests is to educate and promote suicide prevention among adoptees. As the lead for the mental health team at the Gide Foundation, he is developing projects that bring mental health to the forefront within the intercountry transracial adoptee community. Research has shown that the rate of suicide attempts is 4 times higher among adoptees than people who are not adopted. In recent years, Moses has written about his personal experience including the loss of three adopted siblings who died by suicide. In previous years, he has worked in community-based programs, hospital settings and outpatient practices. He has advocated for adoptees to have access to their original birth certificates and presented nationally on the need for post adoption services. Moses believes in empowering people to speak their truth in order to be seen and heard. It’s about saving lives.

In this episode we talk about:

Lack of knowledge around adoptees’ mental health and suicide rate
The process of coming out of the adoptee fog
Adoption as an industry rather than a way to create families
Different types of adoption
The narrative that adoptive parents get, regardless of the demographics of the parents or the adoptee – “Forever Families”
Internal conflict related to how one is raised and how one looks (i.e., native culture)
Looking at our own biases and blind spots related to intercountry transracial adoptees
The importance of educating ourselves about the adoptee experience
Each adoption experience is unique – there is a range of adjustment, mental health concerns, connection with adoptive family
Looking at the identity and how does one define oneself when they don’t fit here or in the country where one was born.
Identity formation when one is an intercountry, transracial adoptee
Internalized racism, lack of connection to native country, lack of acknowledgment of native culture
Places to get support with other adoptees facing similar struggles
Suggestions for working with parents of adoptees
The history of the adoption industry and why it is problematic
Ideas for advocacy related to adoption
The recommendation for adoptive parents to do their own therapeutic work
#InvisibleElephant
The complexity of racism as an intercountry transracial adoptee
The importance of solidarity with BLM

Niche Burnout Sep 28, 2020

Show notes

Niche Burnout

An interview with Laura Long of YourBadAssTherapyPractice.com about creating a niche and identifying your ideal client. Curt and Katie talk with Laura about common myths as well as what happens when you burnout on your niche and how your niche can evolve. Laura also offers practical insight into what you can do to market your new niche.

Interview with Laura Long, LMFT/S

Laura Long, LMFT/S, is a business coach and the lead badass at YourBadAssTherapyPractice.com, where she helps ambitious, driven, Type-A therapists push through their fears and unleash their inner badass.

Laura offers free practice-building tools (and hilariously obscene emails) through her mailing list, and her flagship e-course has successfully graduated over 300 therapists. She also runs small mastermind groups as well as a private online community reserved for her students.

Laura is best known for her off-the-cuff coaching style that includes colorful language, a witty sense of humor, and an uncanny ability to keep it real. Her unique approach to marketing and customer service challenges the status quo and helps therapists to become better business owners. She shows therapists how to grow and scale their practices without losing their minds - because building your private practice should be fun!

You can read Laura’s blog at www.YourBadAssTherapyPractice.com and follow her antics at www.Facebook.com/YourBadAssTherapyPractice.

In this episode we talk about:

The mistakes therapists make in niche – myths and fears around narrowing down a niche
The fear of excluding people when you narrow your niche
The difference between a niche and an ideal client
Ideal client is about the way a person shows up on the planet, who they are inside
Niche – is a focus on the external, like presenting problems
The reasons why you should exclude people
Scarcity fears – that there are not enough clients or that there are too many therapists
Impostor Myth – the deeply held belief that we don’t know what we’re doing
Being a generalist out of fear when you’d rather be a specialist
Confinement Myth – I can only serve these type of folks for the rest of my career
How niches can evolve
Niche burnout – signs you’re burning out on your niche
The importance of self-awareness and self-assessment
What forgetfulness has to do with empathy
The difference between niche burnout and career burnout
How to change your niche, especially when you have the same ideal client
The shifts to make and the story to tell to make sense to your referral sources and ideal clients

Showing Up for Your Clients Sep 21, 2020

Show notes

Showing Up for Your Clients

Curt and Katie chat about the importance of therapists in the therapeutic process. We look at how the medical model, upon which the continuing education and ethical guidelines are built, is flawed leading to solely client-facing training and rules. We talk about the importance of optimizing your practices as well as the negative clinical outcomes when you aren’t taking care of yourself.

In this episode we talk about:

The case for self-care as continuing education
The problem with looking at consumer protection bodies rather than the research
The goals of helping people and the problem with sacrificing ourselves in those efforts
How we protect consumers by taking care of ourselves
The importance of being strong clinicians, optimizing our performance
The problem with the medical model and framing ourselves as inconsequential to therapeutic outcomes
When we aim models or regulations around the minimally acceptable competence or performance
The benefit of seeing therapy as art versus as a science
How non-specific effects (therapist effects, client effects and effects of the therapeutic relationship) are more important than the specific treatment modality or adherence
Common factors and the Contextual Model
The requirement for a Bond for successful treatment
Pathways to change according to the Contextual Model: Real Relationship, Expectations, Specific Ingredients
How we practice at being better humans
Why we need to have more in our lives than being therapists
Showing up in resourced ways
Elements of burnout as specific predictors for clients having worse outcomes, dropping out, or not engaging actively in treatment
The importance of optimal performance in creating a therapeutic alliance
How we aren’t trained on optimal performance, focus, setting up our environment
The need to refocus our graduate programs to support the education that is needed to be a good therapist
How self-awareness can impact clinical work
The lack of humanity in the medical model and research based on it
Who we are makes a difference
The need to understand how to take care of ourselves and structure our practice

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