The Modern Therapist&#8217;s Survival Guide with Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy

Is Therapy an Opiate of the Masses?

Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast:

Navigating the Social Media Self-Diagnosis Trend

Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Creative Credits:

Voice Over by DW McCann https://www.facebook.com/McCannDW/

Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano https://groomsymusic.com/

Understanding Impostor Syndrome in High Achievers: An Interview with Stevon Lewis, LMFT Feb 27, 2023

Show notes

Understanding Impostor Syndrome in High Achievers: An Interview with Stevon Lewis, LMFT

Curt and Katie interview Stevon Lewison working with high achievers who struggle with impostor syndrome. We explored what impostor syndrome is, how society contributes to impostor syndrome, how you can differentiate impostor syndrome from internalized racism, sexism, heterosexism, ableism, etc., the emotional impacts of impostor syndrome, and how therapists can work effectively with these clients.

Transcripts for this episode will be available at mtsgpodcast.com!

In this podcast episode, we talk about how impostor syndrome shows up in high achievers

We reached out to our friend, Stevon Lewis, to explore impostor syndrome.

What do therapists miss related to treating impostor syndrome in high achievers?

Looking at the symptoms versus the root cause
Understanding the common patterns

How does society contribute to impostor syndrome?

Productivity and detail-orientation are praised
The role of humility and Stevon’s difficulty with the accepted definition of humility
Subcultures that are hyper-focused on achievement and competition
The impact of a marginalized identity or identities on impostor syndrome

How can therapists support high achievers with impostor syndrome in therapy?

Slowing down the conversation
Shifting the language related to goal-setting
Finding a path to celebrating wins
Perspective taking on how you treat yourself versus how you treat others
Self-compassion and self-understanding

How do you sort out impostor syndrome from internalized racism, sexism, ableism, etc.?

Contending with stereotypes and unreasonable expectations
Looking at the environment within which someone is working or living
The impact of parenting and what you’ve grown up with

Emotional impacts of Impostor Syndrome

Description of the inner bully
Fear of being found out, not belonging
Fear of being a disappointment or of being too successful
The danger of exploitation, especially for folks who have traditionally been marginalized
The pushback when you are being different

What does healing look like for high achievers with impostor syndrome?

Radical acceptance of self
Getting freedom
Self-compassion

Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode:

Stevon’s Website

Stevon’s Journal: Silencing Your Inner Bully

Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement:

LinkTree

Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Creative Credits:

Voice Over by DW McCann https://www.facebook.com/McCannDW/

Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano https://groomsymusic.com/

Supervision in the Real World: Understanding what makes an effective supervisory alliance Feb 20, 2023

Show notes

Supervision in the Real World: Understanding what makes an effective supervisory alliance

Curt and Katie chat about the relationship between supervisor and supervisee in clinical supervision. We explore what makes up a good supervisory alliance, what the research says (and why it is problematic), as well the practicalities of how to create a good relationship and set up a strong supervision meeting. We also look at the challenges in the real world, especially related to addressing business or administrative needs.

This is a continuing education podcourse.

Transcripts for this episode will be available at mtsgpodcast.com!

In this podcast episode we explore the clinical supervisory alliance for therapists

We know that the relationship is very important in therapy, but what about supervision? We dig into what makes an effective supervisory alliance (and what can hurt it).

What makes up a good clinical supervision relationship for therapists?

Teaching within a learning alliance
Having a shared view of what is being worked on
Rapport, shared supervisory goals, shared tasks by which those goals are pursued

Research on clinical supervision is problematic

Mechanisms by which efficacy is measured
Poor timing of research (developmental stage of the supervisee as well as after supervision is done)

What does an effective clinical supervisory alliance look like, practically?

Strong relationship that holds space for an assessment of what the supervisee needs at their particular developmental stage
Supervisory Alliance measures can help to identify how well this relationship is developing
Using feedback to inform the conversations in supervision
Cultural and gender impacts on the supervisory alliance
Supervisor humility and openness
Intentionality with how the relationship is developed
Regular evaluations for supervisees, including the FASIT (Functional Assessment of Skills for Interpersonal Therapists) system from Behavioral Analysts to assess their skills

Setting up an effective supervisory session

Navigating the business and clinical needs within the supervisory relationship
Creating an agenda and goals
Balancing case presentation with other supervisory needs
Clear about expectations at every stage, especially relevant at hiring
Pulling administrative conversations out of clinical supervision meetings
Finding agreed upon path to address clinical work
Cultural humility within the supervisory relationship

Receive Continuing Education for this Episode of the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide

You can find this full course (including handouts and resources) here: https://learn.moderntherapistcommunity.com/pages/podcourse

Continuing Education Approvals: Please check continuing education approval bodies: Continuing Education Information

Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode:

Saving Psychotherapy by Dr. Ben Caldwell

A Few Thoughts on Impostor Syndrome by Dr. Jordan Harris

*The full reference list can be found in the course on our learning platform.

Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement:

Dr. Tom Murray on Instagram

Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Creative Credits:

Voice Over by DW McCann https://www.facebook.com/McCannDW/

Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano https://groomsymusic.com/

Sex Therapy with Perfectionists: An Interview with Dr. Tom Murray Feb 13, 2023

Show notes

Sex Therapy with Perfectionists: An Interview with Dr. Tom Murray

Curt and Katie interview Dr. Tom Murray about sex therapy for clients with the overcontrolled temperament. We talk about how temperament can affect one’s sex life, what therapists often miss in conversations about sex, and what good sex therapy can look like for these clients.

Transcripts for this episode will be available at mtsgpodcast.com!

An Interview with Dr. Tom Murray

Dr. Tom Murray, author, international trainer, educator, and couples and sex therapist-supervisor, is a widely sought-after expert in sexuality and intimate relationships. For 20+ years, Murray has worked with everyday folks to embrace their weirdness, shed labels and shame, lean into anxiety, and build better and stronger relationships. Murray has appeared in numerous venues, including the Huffington Post and The Daily Mail, as well as radio, television and podcasts, including the Practice of Being Seen and Shrink Rap Radio. Murray directs A Path to Wellness, a multidisciplinary practice providing sex therapy, couples counseling, and general psychotherapy. He authored "Making Nice with Naughty: An intimacy guide for the rule-following, organized, perfectionist, practical, and color-within-the-line types."

In this podcast episode, we talk about how temperament can impact your sex life

We reached out to Dr. Tom Murray to share with us about his new book, Making Nice with Naughty, and how therapists can understand how to help perfectionists (and other over-controlled types) can improve their sex life.

What is the overcontrolled personality and how does it impact sex and sexuality?

Personality characteristics and mindset (introspective, fixed or fatalistic mindset)
Perfectionism, rigidity, and hypervigilance
Sexual deficits (low receptivity, avoidance of novel situations, need for ritual)
Typically choose monogamy as overarching rule for sexual relationships

The impact of trauma on those who are predisposed to the overcontrolled temperament

The complication of past trauma on current relationships
The challenge and the work of helping clients show up as the sexual being they would like to be

How can therapists help overcontrolled adults to improve their sexual functioning?

The goal of self-acceptance and the importance of learning about sex as an adult
The rights and responsibilities of monogamy
Sexual discrepancy and forced celibacy
Looking at the difference between “want” and “willing” to have sex
Understanding the different types of desire (spontaneous, responsive, contextual) and what is typical for each partner
How to overcome low sexual desire in relationships

Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode:

The book: Making Nice with Naughty: An Intimacy Guide for the Rule-Following, Organized, Perfectionist, Practical, and Color-Within-The-Line Types by Dr. Thomas L. Murray Jr

Tom’s website: drtommurray.com

Dr. Tom Murray on TikTok

Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast:

Sex and Shame: An interview with Eliza Boquin, LMFT

Let’s Talk about Sex: An interview with Liz Dube, LMFT

What Therapists Should Know About Sexual Health, Monkey Pox, and the Echoes of the AIDS Epidemic: An Interview with Mallory Garrett, LMFT

Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement:

Article from Stephen P. Becker – Wilderness Therapy: Ethical Considerations for Mental Health Professionals

Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Creative Credits:

Voice Over by DW McCann https://www.facebook.com/McCannDW/

Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano https://groomsymusic.com/

What Actually is Therapy? Feb 06, 2023

Show notes

What Actually is Therapy?

Curt and Katie chat about the confusing laws related to telehealth and other technologies that open up questions of how therapy is actually defined. We look at what is not therapy, what constitutes a therapy session, what differentiates therapy from coaching, and how therapists can navigate confusing laws related to texting, telehealth, and interstate communication with their clients.

Transcripts for this episode will be available at mtsgpodcast.com!

In this podcast episode we talk about what therapy is and what it is not

Curt identified some laws that don’t quite work because what is considered therapy is changing. What time does therapy happen if you are texting? Where is it located? And what actually is therapy and needs to be held under the laws of the profession AND the laws regulating telehealth and technology?

Why does Curt want to fix the telehealth laws?

Rules surrounding knowing where your client is and safety depend on therapy happening concurrently.
New types of therapy (like texting and asynchronous messaging) don’t have the same parameters to be able to identify what is supposed to be documented in therapy sessions.

What is therapy and what is not therapy?

Therapy versus coaching
Therapy versus coping skills training
What is therapy versus what is therapeutic
Does the presence of a therapist make something therapy?
What about continuity of care or coping/coaching calls when someone is traveling?
Things that are called therapy and are not: retail therapy, conversion therapy
What is billable to insurance?

How do we differentiate what we do from non-therapists?

Deeper emotional work within psychological principles
Legal responsibilities of confidentiality

What is a therapy session?

Therapy sessions versus coaching calls
Therapists define what is a therapy session (according to CAMFT)
We need to make sure that we clarify with clients what therapy is with each of us

Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode:

Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast:

Rage and Client Self-Harm: An interview with Angela Caldwell, LMFT

It's the Lack of Thought That Counts: Ethical Decision-Making in Dual Relationships

Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement:

Saving Psychotherapy by Benjamin E. Caldwell, PsyD

Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Creative Credits:

Voice Over by DW McCann https://www.facebook.com/McCannDW/

Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano https://groomsymusic.com/

Am I Honoring My Personal Values OR Am I Discriminating? An exploration of ethics for modern therapists Jan 30, 2023

Show notes

Am I Honoring My Personal Values OR Am I Discriminating? An exploration of ethics for modern therapists

Curt and Katie chat about what therapists should be considering when their strongly held personal values or moral beliefs conflict with a client’s demographics, lifestyle, or choices. We dig deeply into when it’s okay to make a “values-based referral” and when referring out is discrimination.

This is a law and ethics continuing education podcourse.

Transcripts for this episode will be available at mtsgpodcast.com!

In this podcast episode we explore the difference between honoring our personal values and discrimination

Therapists are people who have their own identities, beliefs, values, and approaches to life. But what happens when those identities come into conflict with the clients that they serve? This CE podcourse explores the ethics behind therapist personal values, when personal values should dictate a client being referred to another treatment provider, and when that referral is actually discriminatory.

What is Julia Ward vs. Eastern Michigan University?

An Orthodox Christian, master’s student in counseling requested referring out a LGBTQ+ client
This student was dismissed from school because it was seen as discrimination and referrals were not allowed at that school
There was a summary judgment and an appeal, leading to further lack of clarity

The State of Tennessee has a law that allows therapists to deny services to clients

The law trying to overcome ethics codes
The ACA protested by moving their annual convention out of the state Tennessee

How do ethics codes handle the conflict between discrimination and holding to personal values?

Do no harm, be truthful, practice within your competence
Equity, fidelity and the call to not discriminate with a call to learn and expand competence with clients, and avoid abandoning clients

How do we decide whether we can or should refer out a client based on our firmly held beliefs?

Ethical decision-making and our responsibility based on our license
Sorting out client need, competence, and the benefit of the therapeutic relationship (i.e., common factors)
Referral is a last resort and should be based on client need (not therapist preference)
Advertising and branding for clients to self-select
What happens when clients disclose things later in treatment
The differences in the task for clinicians in private practice versus clients in organizations

Receive Continuing Education for this Episode of the Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide

Once you’ve listened to this episode, to get CE credit you just need to go to learn.moderntherapistcommunity.com/pages/podcourse, register for your free profile, purchase this course, pass the post-test, and complete the evaluation! Once that’s all completed - you’ll get a CE certificate in your profile or you can download it for your records.

Continuing Education Approvals:

You can verify CE approvals here: Continuing Education Information

Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode:

*The full reference list can be found in our show notes at mtsgpodcast.com as well as on the course on our learning platform.

Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement:

Link tree: https://linktr.ee/therapyreimagined

Addressing Racism in Clinical Licensing Exams: An Interview with Ben Caldwell and Tony Rousmaniere Jan 23, 2023

Show notes

Addressing Racism in Clinical Licensing Exams: An Interview with Ben Caldwell and Tony Rousmaniere

Curt and Katie interview Dr. Ben Caldwell and Dr. Tony Rousmaniere about the problems with the Clinical Licensing exams for therapists. We discuss the recent report from ASWB on their pass rates as well as the concerns about the EPPP2 implementation, the poor predictive validity and utility of these licensing exams, and suggestions for what to do with our licensing processes given these concerns.

Transcripts for this episode will be available at mtsgpodcast.com!

In this podcast episode, we talk about recent data that licensing exams are racist

Friends of the show, Dr. Ben Caldwell and Dr. Tony Rousmaniere wrote a white paper in response to a recent report from the ASWB that shows their licensing exams appear to be racist. We wanted to talk with them about their calls to discontinue these exams.

How are the clinical exams racist?

· The number one predictor of whether you pass the exam is your race

· The structure of the exam seems to advantage those with more affinity to these types of tests (i.e., those who are educationally privileged)

· There may also be content or language concerns leading to these disparities

What is the purpose of the clinical exams for therapists?

· Said that it is to be an assessment of knowledge and training, consumer protection, etc.

· Little predictive validity (of competence or consumer safety) for these tests

· The test is an unfair hurdle for folks without academic privilege

· There does not seem to be a need for this test (due to the rigor of training and supervised experience)

What would be better alternatives to requiring a clinical exam?

· Alternate pathways that some states have taken

· Addressing workforce shortages by allowing folks who have gotten through every other requirement (aside from the clinical exam) to be licensed

· Just don’t require a clinical exam

What can therapists do to try to get rid of licensing exams?

· Advocacy to state boards to not implement EPPP2

· Other advocacy related to master’s level clinical exams

· Organizations to #StopASWB and address the EPPP2

Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode:

White Paper: Clinical Licensing Exams in Mental Health Care by Benjamin E. Caldwell, PsyD and Tony Rousmaniere, PsyD

ASWB Report on Social Work Licensing Exam Pass Rates

Very Bad Therapy

BenCaldwellLabs.com

SentioCC.org

Stop the Adoption of EPPP2 Website

ASWB: End Discriminatory Social Work Licensing Exams

A sample letter you can send to your licensing board will be on our show notes at mtsgpodcast.com.

Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast:

Fixing Mental Healthcare in America

Unlearning Very Bad Therapy

Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement:

Therapy Reimagined Homepage

Podcast Homepage

Link tree: https://linktr.ee/therapyreimagined

Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Creative Credits:

Voice Over by DW McCann https://www.facebook.com/McCannDW/

Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano https://groomsymusic.com/

Private Practice Planning for the Future of Mental Healthcare: An Interview with Maureen Werrbach Jan 16, 2023

Show notes

Private Practice Planning for the Future of Mental Healthcare: An Interview with Maureen Werrbach

Curt and Katie interview Maureen Werrbach of the Group Practice Exchange on upcoming trends for mental healthcare. We talk about what is predicted, how to prepare your private practice for success in 2023, and how to plan for unexpected changes to our profession.

Transcripts for this episode will be available at mtsgpodcast.com!

An Interview with Maureen Werrbach, LCPC, The Group Practice Exchange

Maureen Werrbach established The Group Practice Exchange after starting her private practice, Urban Wellness, and growing it into successful group practices in various locations.

Spending countless hours researching how to start a private practice (the legal and procedural steps) and then so many more hours learning how to grow it into a group (again trying to figure out the appropriate steps), she remembers wishing there was a place that she could go, or a book that she could read, that would explain not only the steps it would take to launch a group practice, but also discuss topics that relate to group practice ownership.

A degree in the social service field doesn’t offer any training on the business side of running a group practice! Maureen learned through trial and error what works and what doesn’t in running a counseling group practice. She enjoys helping others reach their full potential and feel confident in running their business.

In this podcast episode, we talk about upcoming trends in Mental Health and what it means for your therapy practice

We reached out to our friend Maureen Werrbach of the Group Practice Exchange about where our field is moving and how we can plan for success.

The way therapy is provided and paid for will be changing

· Insurance: Fee for service versus value-based pricing

· Large tech companies and one-stop shops

· Ease of access and diminished costs via telehealth

What therapists can do to future-proof their practice

· Strong niche and branding

· Doing what we do best

· Addressing fees, profit margins, hiring

· Dedicate time to researching upcoming trends

· Diversifying offerings

· Determining the best fit for your business, your career, your employment

Special considerations for Group Practice Owners in 2023

· The concerns related to large group therapist mills taking employees

· Focus on people, culture, and innovation

· Intentionality related to values, mission, vision

· Avoiding divisiveness and conflict between employers and employees

· The importance of transparency and clarity on how you’ve set up your practice

· Pathways for employees to grow and creative employment opportunities

Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode:

The Group Practice Exchange Membership

The Group Practice Exchange Facebook Group

Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast:

Maureen’s previous interview: Becoming a Group Practice Owner

Fixing Mental Healthcare in America

Beyond Reimagination: What is right (and wrong) with mental health apps

Post Pandemic Practice

All Things Group Therapy: An interview with Katie K. May, LPC

Online Therapy Apps

Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement:

Therapy Reimagined Homepage

Podcast Homepage

Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Creative Credits:

Voice Over by DW McCann https://www.facebook.com/McCannDW/

Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano https://groomsymusic.com/

Penny Wise and Pound Foolish: Thoughts on investing and getting paid as a therapist Jan 09, 2023

Show notes

Penny Wise and Pound Foolish: Thoughts on investing and getting paid as a therapist

Curt and Katie chat about money: considerations for investing and getting paid as a therapist. We look at typical unpaid opportunities and how to decide whether to do them. We also talk about client care practices that may take time, but could keep clients.

Transcripts for this episode will be available at mtsgpodcast.com!

In this podcast episode we talk about money mistakes that many therapists make

We talk a lot about making sure that therapists get paid, but thought it was worth talking about when therapists should invest in their business and when they may want to work for free.

What are the lessons Curt and Katie learned around investing in their businesses?

· Electronic Health Records/Practice Management systems are very helpful

· Automation helps your business to run without you

· Sometimes visibility is worth working for free

How do you decide if you should do something for your business?

“I gave a presentation, it's gotta be more than 10 years ago at this point, for a group of students. I think, like five people showed up… But I still get referrals from one of the people who came there. And it turned into a really wonderful relationship, because I sounded like I knew what I was talking about.” – Curt Widhalm, LMFT

· What are the practical benefits and challenges?

· What are the other potential benefits (like enjoyment)?

· What is the investment of time, money, and expertise?

· What is the return on investment?

Specifics on deciding to take unpaid work

“There are elements of this where it's really looking at is the audience strong enough? Is there any money eventually? And do you actually want the referrals from the audience that you're going to be in front of? Because if all of those things are yes… I would consider – at least the first time out – doing some content creation (because I love content creation) without getting paid to see does it actually pan out. But you want to make sure you track that to determine: am I going to actually get anything from this this relationship and from this work that I'm doing?” – Katie Vernoy, LMFT

· What new relationships will be developed?

· Will you get visibility with the audience you’re seeking?

· Will you obtain access to relevant learning?

· Is the entity that is asking you legit and established?

· Are there other forms of compensation (like photos or videos)?

· Are you able to get clients from this work? (And what are new clients worth to you?)

Client care versus getting paid

“I don't think it's helpful, at least not for customer service purposes, to view your client as trying to take advantage of you.” – Katie Vernoy, LMFT

· Setting up appropriate boundaries and policies

· Avoiding additional costs, if you can (i.e., setting fees in a private pay practice to include these extras)

Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode:

Why You Shouldn’t Just Do It All Yourself: An interview with Bibi Goldstein

Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast:

Why You Shouldn't Sell Out to Better Help: An interview with Jeff Guenther

I Just Graduated, Now What? Career Advice for New Clinicians

How to Manage Your Practice as a Traveling Therapist: An Interview with Kym Tolson, LCSW Dec 26, 2022

Show notes

How to Manage Your Practice as a Traveling Therapist: An Interview with Kym Tolson, LCSW

Curt and Katie interview Kym Tolson, the traveling therapist. We look at how a modern therapist can be a digital nomad, including what business logistics to consider as well as how to travel well.

Transcripts for this episode will be available at mtsgpodcast.com!

In this podcast episode, we talk about working as a therapist when traveling

We reached out to our friend Kym Tolson who lives and works as a digital nomad.

“It's kind of like being on vacation every day.” – Kym Tolson, LCSW

What are the most important considerations when working as a digital nomad?

· Checking the Wi-Fi before booking your accommodations

· How long to stay in each place (Kym says about 2.5 weeks)

· Finding a schedule that works and only takes small tweaks when you change time zones

· Planning around the seasons and ideal locations

What are the business considerations for traveling therapists?

· Consult with tax attorney and accountant, where to register your business

· Reach out to boards for the state you are traveling to (to determine if you can practice within the state)

· Considerations for business write offs and expenses

Managing work-life balance as a digital nomad

· Finding the right times for work

· Setting a schedule

· Compartmentalize fun and work separately

What are the necessities when traveling as a digital nomad?

· Specific creature comforts or life necessities (for Kym it’s pots/pans to manage Celiac disease)

· Computer

· Numerous Wi-Fi options (different carriers for cell-phone coverage and portable mobile hotspot)

· Understanding of the impacts of mode of travel and type of accommodations

How do clients react to therapists who are on the road?

· Decide on the level of transparency on traveling or location

· Virtual background for continuity

· Clients are usually pretty flexible with traveling therapist

Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode:

www.thetravelingtherapist.com

www.privatepracticeinsurancebilling.com

Kym’s Facebook Group

The Expert’s Guide to Becoming a Traveling Therapist Course coupon code for 25% off is MODERNTHERAPIST

Bill Like a Boss – Kym’s Insurance Billing Membership

Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast:

How Can Therapists Actually Retire: An interview with David Frank

Partners of Therapists

Thriving Over Surviving – Growing a Practice Without Burning Out: An interview with Megan Gunnell, LMSW

Post Pandemic Practice

Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement: