The Modern People Leader: Forward-Thinking HR

MPL Links:

📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps

----

(07:36) Jenny’s Career Journey: From Google to Startups & VP of People at Vercel

(16:17) Lessons Learned as a People Team of One

(21:37) What Vercel Does Explained Simply

(28:15) How AI Will Cut Spend Before Headcount in HR

(33:13) Cost Savings from Building Internal AI Tools Instead of Buying SaaS

(37:22) Creating a Company Culture of AI Adoption

(40:17) The Future of B2B Tech: Customization, Forking, and AI Marketplaces

(44:23) Customizing Engagement Surveys for Better Insights

(49:44) Jenny’s “Manager Stack” Vision for AI-Driven Performance Management

(53:40) How to Start Building Internal Tools with AI

(56:50) Advice for HR Leaders: Just Start Building

----

248 - How to make in-person time count Aug 15, 2025

Show notes

Geanne Weaver-Hepler (Director of EX, Charlie Health), Allison Vendt (VP, People Ops & Head of EX at Dropbox), Nick Freeman (Co-CEO, Marco), and Brian Elliott (CEO, Work Forward) joined us to talk about what’s broken with employee connection—and how to fix it.

We explored practical frameworks for offsites, hybrid team building, and creating meaningful connection moments across distributed workforces.

----

Sponsor Links:

MPL Links:

📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps

----

(06:00) Why we stopped talking about connection—and why that’s a mistake

(08:00) Gallup data: engagement is falling, especially for managers

(10:00) Geanne on building connection at scale at Charlie Health

(13:00) From Airbnb bonding to 400-person team offsites

(14:00) Dropbox’s shift from office-first to virtual-first with intentional team gatherings

(16:00) The importance of milestone-based anchor weeks

(17:00) Nick: What makes an offsite successful? Frequency, location, and shared space

(19:00) Using AI to plan team retreats faster and smarter

(20:00) Lessons learned: The pendulum swings of remote, RTO, and hybrid

(22:00) Brian: Airbnb’s team cadence model and the importance of rhythm

(25:00) Dropbox’s “gathering matrix” and designing for outcomes

(27:30) Virtual connection challenges & async collaboration tips

(30:00) Why structured rituals help sustain remote trust

(32:00) Peer learning over presentations: How Charlie Health restructured their offsites

(33:30) Role-playing, competition, and fun as part of sales team development

(36:00) Common offsite pitfalls: over-indexing on logistics, under-indexing on experience

(37:00) How to save 20–30% on offsites by avoiding weekends & bundling bookings

(39:00) Q&A: What to say to executives who don’t see the value in connection

(41:00) Q&A: How Dropbox uses Slack, swag, and planning to drive pre-event excitement

(43:00) Q&A: Aligning in-office vs. remote culture differences

(45:00) Q&A: Measuring success with post-event surveys and engagement impact

(48:00) Q&A: Designing experiences for introverts and overstimulated employees

(50:00) Playbooks: Charlie Health’s tiered gathering strategy & Founders Trip

(51:00) Dropbox’s Offsite-in-a-Box and Virtual First Toolkit

(53:00) Why group travel is the fastest-growing segment of corporate spend

(54:00) Tips for booking better hotels, avoiding weekend rates, and maximizing ROI

----

Build - The three ELTV formulas every HR leader should know: Jessica Zwaan (Author, Built For People & COO, Talentful) Aug 13, 2025

Show notes

Jessica Zwaan, COO at Whereby, joined us again on The Modern People Leader for a deep dive into Employee Lifetime Value (ELTV).

We explored how HR leaders can adapt marketing-style metrics like LTV to CAC for talent, the different ways to calculate it, and how the process itself can reshape how People teams think about value, cost, and impact.

----

Sponsor Links:

MPL Links:

📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps

----

(05:45) Wrapping up Jessica’s second book & reflections on avoiding hustle culture

(06:31) How to balance multiple big projects without burning out

(07:42) Personal habits that help prevent hustle culture

(09:16) Stephen on using “extra time” with intention

(11:29) Mary Oliver’s “Don’t Hesitate” poem and finding joy in work

(13:02) Daniel on keeping play in work despite business growth pressures

(14:05) Segue to main topic: Employee Lifetime Value (ELTV)

(15:26) Why ELTV sparks debate and common misconceptions

(16:25) Treating ELTV conversations like an AMA to address objections

(17:05) Behind-the-scenes of Stephen’s LinkedIn post that started the conversation

(18:21) Image generation with Midjourney & content process for MPL Build

(21:42) Different ways to calculate ELTV depending on company context

(24:23) Why People teams resist new metrics compared to Marketing teams

(27:56) The value of the calculation process itself for HR teams

(29:13) Why ELTV is calculated on an aggregate, not individual, basis

(31:55) The halo effect of great employees & intangible impacts on value

(32:29) Breaking ELTV down by department, team, or cohorts

(36:27) Core cost factors in ELTV: recruiting, onboarding, L&D, benefits, comp

(39:12) Why knowing cost per employee matters beyond ELTV

(40:50) Tracking ELTV with different financial baselines (revenue vs. EBITDA)

(43:32) The “gold standard” three-to-one LTV-to-CAC ratio and when to adjust it

(44:58) Similar or alternative metrics for different business models

(46:05) Why each company’s key metrics should look different

(47:15) Recognizing others who pioneered ELTV concepts

(48:22) Final advice: ELTV is a compass, not a map

----

246 - How New York Life Is Using AI to Transform Careers: Joanne Rodgers (CHRO, New York Life) Aug 08, 2025

Show notes

Joanne Rodgers, CHRO of New York Life, joined us on The Modern People Leader to share how her 30-year journey at the company led her from securities regulation to the C-suite.

We talked about the DNA of New York Life’s culture, how they’re rolling out AI tools company-wide, and why HR must lead the charge in this era of transformation.

----

Sponsor Links:

MPL Links:

📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps

----

(06:51) Joanne’s Career Journey: From Securities Regulator to CHRO

(09:43) Career Hub and Recognizing Hidden Potential in Employees

(11:46) What is New York Life? Products, Distribution, and Secret Sauce

(12:53) Innovation at a 180-Year-Old Company

(14:25) Culture at New York Life: Relationship-Centric and Supportive

(16:31) Formal & Informal Structures That Fuel Career Growth

(19:10) Empowering Your Growth: The Ecosystem (Performance, AI, Career Hub, Leadership)

(22:13) Real-World Use of Eightfold AI for Internal Mobility

(24:19) Why Skills Visibility Drove the AI-Powered Career Hub

(26:42) Metrics of Success and Anecdotal Wins from Gig Projects

(28:40) Younger Talent, AI Anxiety, and Supporting New Grads

(30:53) AI Tools, Mindset Shift & Connor Grennan’s Influence

(33:44) Organizational AI Readiness and Excitement

(34:54) Governance, Training, and AI Adoption at Sale

(37:48) ELT Buy-In: How Senior Leadership Went All-In on AI

(41:50) Net New Skills, AI Champions, and Future-Proofing with Career Hub

(44:04) The HR Role in AI Transformation

(46:24) 2025 Priorities: Empowering Growth as a Fully-Integrated Ecosystem

(47:58) AI Coaching for Leadership Development

(50:28) Advice to HR Leaders on Starting Their AI Journey

----

245 - The Leave Experience Is a Culture Test Aug 05, 2025

Show notes

Jennifer Henderson (CEO, Tilt), Jessica Winder (SVP People, CoLab Software), Allison Whalen (CEO, Parentaly), and Justin Clifford (CEO, Bereave) joined us to talk about what most companies get wrong when it comes to employee leave. We discussed parental and bereavement leave through a human lens—from compliance and continuity to return-to-work strategies and performance review pitfalls.

----

🔗 Go download Tilt's Modern HR Leader's Guide to Leave that Works - this is a full recap of this conversation.

----

Sponsor Links:

MPL Links:

📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps

----

(06:26) The 3 core challenges of employee leave: compliance, continuity, and care

(09:58) What “support” actually looks like during leave, not just compliance

(16:09) Real-life examples of how broken leave policies hurt employee trust

(18:57) Bereavement leave: why 51% of people leave their jobs within a year of loss

(21:09) Building better return-to-work frameworks and communication plans

(23:56) “Did you know?” HR comms and surfacing underused employee benefits

(25:38) The manager’s role: why they’re the most powerful force during leave

(26:49) Jessica’s childcare breakdown story + creative leave support solutions

(30:22) Small, meaningful ways to show real care during a return to work

(32:02) Why policies mean nothing without psychologically safe manager behavior

(34:14) Performance reviews: how leave-related bias undermines careers

(36:16) The need for written re-onboarding plans for every returning employee

(37:42) The “10x” moment: leave as a defining employer brand experience

(40:52) Why many managers never wanted to manage people—and how that shows up

(43:44) SOPs for grief: standardizing human touch, not just tasks

(44:57) Why outsourcing leave support can actually free managers to show up better

(46:48) What not to do: excluding managers from leave conversations entirely

(48:14) The untapped business value in training middle managers

(50:04) Jessica’s fears returning from leave as a senior executive

(52:12) Why sales comp during leave is never perfect—but always worth refining

(54:45) Err on the side of employee-favorable: retention > replacement

(56:07) Every leave situation is different—so start planning 3–4 months ahead

----

244 – Why IT Reports to HR & Learning the Language of AI: Kahina Ouerdane (Chief People Officer, Workleap) Aug 01, 2025

Show notes

Kahina Ouerdane, Chief People Officer at Workleap, joined us on The Modern People Leader.

We talked about her journey from international human rights law to tech, how software is the new workplace, why AI is forcing a rethinking of learning and org design, and more.

----

Sponsor Links:

MPL Links:

📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps

----

(05:43) Kahina’s Origin Story: From Human Rights Lawyer to People Leader

(07:56) Discovering Her “Why” and the Power of Collective Harmony

(11:11) Intro to Workleap: Origins of Gsoft

(12:34) Workleap's Growth and Mission to Make Work Simpler

(14:54) Overview of the Workleap Product Suite

(16:21) Officevibe, Pingboard, Barley, and the Future of the Platform

(18:34) The “Foggy Road” of AI

(19:22) AI is a New Language: Learning Amidst Uncertainty

(21:38) Why IT Now Reports to HR at Workleap

(24:34) IT and Onboarding: Lessons from M&A and Employee Experience

(26:46) Why HR May Be Better Suited Than IT to Lead Change

(28:33) How IT and HR Are Co-Learning AI Together

(29:52) Rethinking What Learning Means in an AI-Powered World

(31:32) The “Third-Life Crisis” of the Knowledge Worker

(34:02) Why Nobody’s Talking Enough About Re-skilling

(36:17) Vibe Coding and L&D Reimagined with AI

(37:26) The Accidental On-Ramp to Using Workleap AI

(39:22) Weekly Rituals and Cross-Functional Learning Moments

(41:40) The Limits of Our Imagination in Predicting the Future of Work

(43:13) How Workleap Dogfoods Its Own AI Tools

(44:50) Data as the Engine: The Power of Connected People Analytics

(47:25) Future Vision: Org Charts with Real-Time Engagement & Performance Insights

(48:48) Innovation From the Ground Up: HR Leading a Company-Wide Sprint

(51:35) Why Canada Might Be Leading the Way in Future of Work Innovation

----

243 - Rethinking Org Design in the AI Era: Alex Buder Shapiro, Chief People Officer at Jasper Jul 29, 2025

Show notes

Alex Buder Shapiro, Chief People Officer at Jasper, joined us on The Modern People Leader.

We talked about how AI is reshaping organizational design, the shift from early-career jobs to early-career talent, and how HR teams can lead through experimentation and workflow innovation.

----

Sponsor Links:

MPL Links:

📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps

----

(11:11) First AI Workflow: School Calendar Automation

(12:53) What Jasper Does & Their AI-First Approach

(16:44) AI Adoption vs Transformation Across the Org

(18:29) Provocation: HR Isn’t Leading—It’s Catching Up

(21:25) The Lightbulb Moment: AI's Workflow Implications

(23:21) Induced Demand & Why Work Will Expand, Not Shrink

(26:33) Efficiency Creates Possibility: Redefining Roles

(28:31) Reskilling at Scale & Changing Comfort Processes

(31:09) Why Top-Down Reskilling Won’t Be Fast Enough

(33:34) Real-Time Learning Through LLMs

(34:45) Platform Gaps in Vibe Coding & Training

(35:49) Experimentation Culture at Jasper

(37:22) Prototyping in EPD vs People Teams

(38:40) Early Prototypes in L&D: Podcasts, LM Tools, Interactive Sites

(40:40) How Jasper Unblocked HR to Prototype with AI

(43:45) Entry-Level Work Is Changing, Not Disappearing

(45:17) Learning, Not Losing: The Early-Career Advantage

(47:36) Literacy, Writing & Resistance to New Tech: Historical Parallels

(49:22) Soccer Formations & Reimagining Org Design

(50:45) Beyond the Pyramid: Nimble, Equally Leveled Teams(51:32) Rapid Fire Questions

----

242 - Eliza Jackson (Chief People & Administrative Officer, ButcherBox) Jul 25, 2025

Show notes

Eliza Jackson, Chief People and Administrative Officer at ButcherBox, joined us on The Modern People Leader.

We talked about how operational excellence can protect and scale company culture, how her team built a "work in service of" mindset, and how ButcherBox is using AI agents to unlock capacity—not replace people.

----

Sponsor Links:

MPL Links:

📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps

----

(05:59) Eliza’s Career Journey: From Finance to Education to ButcherBox

(08:04) What ButcherBox Does & Its B Corp Mission

(09:23) Why Ops Isn’t Just for Efficiency—It’s for Culture

(11:44) How Eliza Assessed ButcherBox’s Ops When She Joined

(13:52) Creating the Business Operations Team & Their Embedded Model

(16:30) Eliza’s Nerdy Toolkit: Time & Task Management

(17:58) People Ops & Biz Ops Tech Stack at ButcherBox

(21:09) Managing Hybrid Work: Boston-Based Flexibility

(23:47) Protecting Company DNA & Building Connection in a Hybrid World

(26:48) Evolving ButcherBox’s Return-to-Office Strategy

(29:35) Culture is the Differentiator in a Post-COVID Workplace

(33:31) What Great Leadership Looks Like in a Talent Factory

(35:46) The Shift in Leadership Mindsets Since COVID

(38:04) Belonging, AI, and the Performance Push: Can They Coexist?

(39:28) ButcherBox’s AI Task Force: Building Capacity with Agents

(41:50) Example: AI Copy & Design Agents That Talk to Each Other

(44:39) Why an AI Coach Can Sometimes Be Better Than a Manager

(45:57) AI Adoption at ButcherBox: What’s Sticking & What’s Scaling

(47:29) The CPO of the Future: People + Digital, Inspired by Moderna

(50:41) Why HR Should Lead AI Transformation, Not Just IT

(52:01) Rapid Fire: Advice, Superpowers & What to Steal from Slalom

(55:27) BetterUp & the Human Condition at Work

(55:40) One-Word Close: Inflection Point, Moderna, Baby

----

Build - The What, Why, & How of Creating an Employee Journey Map: Joris Luijke (CEO, Pyn) & Jessica Zwaan (Author, Built for People) Jul 22, 2025

Show notes

Jessica Zwaan and Joris Luijke joined us to break down the what, why, and how to create an employee journey map.

We talked about why People teams should be designing for moments and not just processes, why journey mapping should start small, and why 80% of employee moments fall flat.

----

Sponsor Links:

MPL Links:

📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps

----

(06:01) What is an employee journey map vs. employee lifecycle?

(06:36) Predictable moments and the restaurant crayon analogy

(08:36) Why moments that matter are different from lifecycle stages

(09:09) Jessica’s view: Employee experience as a whole journey

(10:13) Journey mapping as a software-supported process

(11:11) Common challenges when building journey maps

(12:02) Why sticky notes and whiteboards fall short

(14:07) The trap of thinking only in terms of HR processes

(15:33) Should you list every moment or start small?

(16:45) Prioritize a few moments and go deep first

(17:47) Having a facilitator with journey mapping experience

(19:46) Other considerations: group size, cross-functionality

(22:02) Be creative—draw from delightful personal experiences

(23:48) Structuring maps based on emotional headspace

(24:07) The HR leader’s role in setting ideation tone

(25:28) When and how to prioritize improvements

(26:17) Journey coverage: 80% of moments aren’t managed well

(29:42) Using journey maps to measure real-time HR progress

(30:26) Mapping sad, neutral, and happy experiences

(32:17) How to keep journey maps alive over time

(33:32) Journey mapping needs continuous updates

(34:02) Pulling employees right after moments that matter

(36:06) Reviewing the map regularly without creating admin fatigue

(37:08) Journey maps = ideation tools, not just documentation

(39:12) Journey activation: what companies are doing well

(41:08) Examples: Similow, MongoDB, Shopify using automation

(43:04) Daniel’s Humu onboarding experience

(44:51) How Jessica’s team uses Snappy for new hires

(49:49) Final thoughts: journey maps as foundational HR strategy

----

240 - Why HR should own the workflows & not just the workforce: Thomas Forstner, VP of People and Talent at Juro Jul 18, 2025

Show notes

Thomas Forstner, VP of People and Talent at Juro, joined us on The Modern People Leader. We talked about building an AI-native company, why HR should own workflows not just the workforce, and how people teams must evolve from playbook followers to visionary architects of the modern org.

----

Sponsor Links:

MPL Links: