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    TV & Film

    The How NOT To Make A Movie Podcast

    Now in our THIRD SEASON, we’re still telling the stories that made us Entertainment Weekly’s BEST FILM PODCAST OF 2022! The creative team behind HBO’s monolithic TALES FROM THE CRYPT trade stories from THE MOVIE MAKING TRENCHES with fellow film makers about how exactly movies and TV shows get made. And especially what happens when film making craft unexpectedly turns to crap.

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    Copyright: © 2022 The How NOT To Make A Movie Podcast

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    Latest Episodes:
    S2E30: “Joel-A-Palooza” Mar 28, 2023
    Show notes Joel Silver aka “The Pajamanator”

    There are movie producers and then there’s Joel Silver.

    Hollywood’s famous for its larger-than-life personalities. Joel is larger than larger-than-life. Working for Joel can be challenging. Rewarding, too, but challenging especially. There’s not much margin for error but plenty for terror.

    In Season One, we told lots of great Joel stories. We’ll re-tell some of them here but with a different context. We’ll tell some new ones too.

    There’s the story of Joel directing an episode of “Tales From The Crypt” in between fighting with Gil Adler, the show’s producer because Joel wouldn’t put his cell phone away.

    And what about the time Joel tried to fire John Kassir, the voice of the Crypt Keeper?

    Or the time Joel crossed into Canada without a single piece of identification and nearly caused an international incident?

    We’ll also revisit the Car Ride From Hell and the strange (but very Hollywood) story of how HBO’s short lived series Perversions Of Science came into being.

    What makes Joel Silver stories so much fun is that they really can go anywhere because Joel really could do anything. The thing about Joel though is context. You have to appreciate Joel within his context (and not within any sort of real world context). Joel doesn’t exactly live in the real world.

    All sorts of odd characters also will appear. Big stars with big egos and even bigger problems. Hustlers and wannabes. We’ve even got a Donald Trump story or two! As befits a “Joel-A-Palooza”, we’ve got something for everyone!


    S2E29: “The Director’s Director” Mar 21, 2023
    Show notes Elliot Silverstein: The director’s director

    You might not know the name Elliot Silverstein but you should. He directed a couple of very big movies (Cat Ballou and A Man Called Horse). He also helped invent TV directing back in the 1950’s and 1960’s (directing Naked City, Have Gun Will Travel and The Twilight Zone. Elliot was always an artist’s rights guy. The reason directors have a “director’s cut” or “final cut” is because Elliot fought for it. It’s not hyperbole to say that Elliot Silverstein really is the director’s director.

    We first met Elliot back during our Tales From The Crypt days. Elliot directed four episodes including one of the series’ best – “The Reluctant Vampire”. It’s about a vampire who doesn’t like hurting people so he gets a job as night watchman in a blood bank. Malcolm MacDowell played the vampire.

    Having learned to direct during TV’s first Golden Age, Elliot taught himself to see the whole show or movie in his head before he ever calls “Action!”. It made working with him on Crypt a fascinating – and very educational – experience.

    We cover a lot of territory in this one. A lot of fascinating characters make appearances: If Elliot’s anything, he’s a kind of Don Quixote tilting at corporate and studio windmills. The word that best defines Elliot at the end of the day: integrity.

    Yup – Elliot Silverstein is very much the director’s director.

    Photo 1282336 / Movie © James Group Studios, Inc. | Dreamstime.com


    S2E28: “Crypt In London” Mar 15, 2023
    Show notes

    For it’s last season, HBO sent “Tales From The Crypt” to London. It was an amazing adventure. How could it not be? But (if we’re honest – and that is our stock in trade here) the Crypt team didn’t go to London strictly to refresh the franchise (which needed it, frankly). Crossing the pond helped for sure! But – as with Bordello Of Blood (which we were editing at the time) – the Crypt team left Los Angeles mostly because our executive producer Joel Silver was at war with the union representing our crew. HBO didn’t oppose the idea at all.

    In fact, taking Crypt to London gave us access to actors we hadn’t been able to cast previously. At Crypt, we paid all actors, directors and writers their guild minimums plus ten percent (to cover the agency fee). For actors who lived outside of Los Angeles (but still in the US or Canada), HBO usually covered the cost of flying them (up front in first class of course). They wouldn’t do it for anyone living outside North America. Of course, if we wanted to pay for the flight, that was fine. But those tickets weren’t in our budget.

    We got to work with people like Bob Hoskins, Natasha Richardson, Steve Coogan, Ewan McGregor, Imelda Staunton, Jane Horrocks, and a pre-James Bond Daniel Craig. Alan Hume – director of photography of various James Bond and Star Wars movies shot two episodes of Crypt! We were based at Ealing Studios, one of the most fabled movie studios in England. It really was an amazing creative adventure!

    Joining Gil and I for the discussion are Ed Tapia and Greg Melton. Regular listeners to this podcast will recognize Ed and Greg from earlier episodes. Ed was Gil’s assistant – but he was sooooo much more than that. These days, Ed Tapia is a very talented producer in his own right. He’s producing “All American Homecoming” for the CW. Greg Melton is one of the best production designers working in Hollywood. Or London. In addition to creating Crypt’s look, Greg production designed The Walking Dead.

    We’ll discuss the joys of working in London and the difficulties. Our cultures clashed repeatedly. We’ve even got a few new Joel Silver stories (Joel came to visit us in London with all the prerequisite chaos).

    So, kick back as we reminisce about the season “Tales From The Crypt” spent in London. Or, as the Crypt Keeper called it: “Scary, Olde England”.


    S2E27: “A Taste Of Sherrie” Mar 07, 2023
    Show notes The incomparable Sherrie Rose

    One of the great things about doing “Tales From The Crypt” was the actors we got to work with. Kirk Douglass, Tom Hanks, Whoopi Goldberg, Michael J Fox, Isabella Rossellini, Daniel Craig among many, many others. We also got to work with an actor named Sherrie Rose. Hell, we liked working with Sherrie so much at Crypt that we hired her three times. Only William Sadler can compete. Bill also appeared in two Crypt episodes; he also appears in both Crypt feature films. Sherrie caught our attention early on.

    She also caught director William Friedkin’s attention. In fact (as Sherrie will tell it), Billy essentially hired Sherrie in the room to play Vendetta in his “On A Dead Man’s Chest” episode. It’s about tattoos and the rock and roll world – two worlds Sherrie knew. What Billy Friedkin saw – it’s why we kept hiring Sherrie – is her unique combination of brains, balls and beauty.

    Only Skin Deep

    A few seasons later, we developed a script called “Only Skin Deep” about a strange, mask-wearing young woman who lures a violent man home from a costume party, seduces him and then cuts off his face. We only ever had one actor in mind for the strange, mask-wearing young woman: Sherrie Rose. In our minds, no one else could play it.

    When we went off to do the first of the Crypt-branded feature films – Demon Knight – we cast Sherrie. Alas, most of her scenes ended up on the cutting room floor. It happens. But Sherrie’s never been one to lick her wounds. As you’ll see, Sherrie’s a dynamo. She’s a terrific producer, writer and director, too.

    Me And Will

    Sherrie co-wrote, co-produced and co-directed a terrific little indie feature film called “Me and Will” back in 1999. It’s about two women who skip out of rehab and go on a road trip (on motorcycles) to find the motorcycle used in “Easy Rider”. It’s beautifully shot. The acting is spot on. Patrick Dempsey’s in the cast as are Grace Zabriskie, Seymour Cassel, Keanu Reeves and M. Emmet Walsh. We really do recommend it!

    As you’ll hear and see, Sherrie’s one of those people who seems to know everyone. She got Mick Jagger to give her a song for the “Me And Will” soundtrack for free. When the manager at The Viper Room on Sunset Strip wouldn’t let Sherrie use the room in the movie, she got it anyway after bumping into Johnny Depp – one of the space’s owners at an event. Also – when we cast Sherrie in “Dead Man’s Chest”, she got us rock legends Greg Allman and Steve Jones – because they were friends of hers.

    If Sherrie has one strength above all – that serves her whether she’s acting, producing, writing or directing: she’s always totally prepared. Sherrie Rose is a content creation meal – well balanced and nutritious. We have a sneaking feeling a taste of Sherrie won’t be nearly enough.


    S2E26: “Tobe Or Not Tobe – A Tribute To Our Friend Tobe Hooper Feb 28, 2023
    Show notes

    There’s no data to back this up, but most of the people making horror movies – like horror movie fans – are some of the nicest people on the planet. Our friend Tobe Hooper (along with his writing partner Kim Henkel) created one of the most iconic horror characters of all time: Leatherface from The Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Ah, but there’s so much more to Chainsaw than just Leatherface. Just as there was so much more to Tobe Hooper.

    How did a mild mannered college professor and documentary cameraman end up a horror movie icon? It started with talent. Tobe hit the ground with an amazing eye. While making a horror movies was a calculated decision, once Tobe committed to making a horror movie, he brought every bit of A game he had.

    Before Texas Chainsaw Massacre, movie monsters were mostly supernatural (like vampires or werewolves) or back from the dead in some way (like Frankenstein’s monster). Chainsaw led the charge in making humans the monster. That changed the horror business. And that, in turn, changed the movie business.

    Our guests in this episode are people who’ve worked with Tobe and fans who adore his work. Gil and I worked with Tobe on a couple of projects. “Haunted Lives” was a supernatural true crime pilot that we did for CBS. “Tales From The Crypt” needs no introduction. We’ll talk to Kim Henkel, Tobe’s writing partner on Chainsaw and several other features. Also we’ll talk to cinematographer Levie Isaacks.

    Levie worked on Chainsaw but not as its camera person. At that point in his career, Levie was a news reader at a radio station in Texas. Tobe and Kim hired Levie to read the news copy at the top of the movie. In time, Tobe and Levie’s working relationship would flourish.

    Gil also has some great Tobe stories. They were good friends up until Tobe’s untimely, unexpected passing.

    So – curl up and get comfy with this one – we promise not to try and scare you (much).


    S2E25: “TV Or Not TV” Feb 21, 2023
    Show notes TV Or Not TV

    Sam Egan’s been writing TV shows (and the occasional feature film) for fifty plus years. His first big break was writing and producing the show “Quincy ME” with Jack Klugman. TV was very different back then. How we watched it was different. Strange but true: there used to be only three broadcast networks putting out TV shows that everyone watched. How writers and producers came up with those shows – that was different, too. Over the course of his “TV life”, Sam Eagan has watched the world change – and profoundly.

    I worked with Sam for two seasons on Showtime’s version of “The Outer Limits”. Sam was the showrunner and I was one of the writing producers on staff. It was a wonderful two years. Sam, as you’ll experience, is very Zen in his approach to the problem-solving processes required to make a TV show.

    Sam’s history is fascinating. His father survived the Holocaust; he was a prisoner at Auschwitz. He was the only survivor among his family. Sam was the product of his second marriage – the post Auschwitz one. Eventually Sam’s family arrived in America. Sam eventually arrived in Los Angeles.

    Along the way, he did some writing for Rolling Stone (he was at Altamont!) and wrote and produced “Imagine” the documentary about John Lennon.

    In the end, Sam found his way to TV – and he never stopped working thereafter (that is until he’d had enough and wanted to get off the show biz merry-go-round-from-hell). Sam spent time on shows like Snoops (with Tim and Daphne Reid), Northern Exposure, Jeremiah, V, Masters of Science Fiction, Continuum and The Listener. And, of course The Outer Limits.

    We’ll also touch on the development process – then and now. Before streaming changed the TV business model, TV was all about syndication – the secondary market for TV shows where they live in perpetual reruns. Syndicated shows mostly ran five days a week (Monday through Friday) in a particular time slot. Ad cycles in TV run for thirteen weeks. So, the math’s simple: Thirteen weeks time five episodes a week equals sixty five. For a show to reach syndication, it had to produce sixty-five episodes.

    Trust us – that’s harder than it looks.

    Gil and I have also had TV lives. We’ll get to compare and contrast with Sam. It’s a glorious life, a TV Life. It’s not for everyone. But if you’ve got the chops or the utter foolishness to try?

    It beats working.

    Photo 97744853 / Old Tv © Dmitry Sosenushkin | Dreamstime.com


    S2E24: “Bordello Schmear, Part 2” Feb 15, 2023
    Show notes The Whole Schmear!

    This episode/post is a continuation of S2E23 – Bordello of Blood: The Whole Schmear. I guess that makes this “the rest of the schmear”.

    Spoiler alert: this story has a happy ending. At its core, our podcast is the story of a creative relationship. How making a dumb horror movie destroyed that relationship. And how doing a podcast about making that dumb horror movie healed the wounds and reignited the relationship. That’s after not speaking to each other for twenty-five years. In fact, doing the podcast began a whole schmear of things unto itself!

    How It All Began…

    Gil Adler and I were poised to make a movie we thought would alter our careers for the better. “Dead Easy” was a psychological thriller. The whole “Tales From The Crypt” creative team were looking forward to making that movie. Hell, we spent six weeks in New Orleans prepping it. We were touring a swamp when Universal pulled the plug on “Dead Easy”, called us home to LA and told us “You’re doing ‘Bordello Of Blood'”‘ instead”.

    Everything that happened after that was a catastrophe (of one kind or another).

    We’ve always seen season one, episodes one-through-five as “our story”. Here, for the first time, we’ve put together all five episodes into one one opus-sized episode (well, into two episodes – the whole schmear was too large to publish as one single podcast – file size limits, ya know?).

    And, There’s More…!

    We’ve also added a few tantalizing hints about the streaming show Gil and I are about to take out into the TV marketplace: “Are You Afraid?” Think of it as “Walking Dead” meets “Buffy The Vampire Slayer: meets “Sweeny Todd” (without the music). If you enjoyed the wicked fun of Tales From The Crypt, you’ll love “Are You Afraid?

    But, first – we hope you enjoy the rest of the schmear!

    Photo 38820468 © Balefire9 | Dreamstime.com


    S2E23: “Bordello – The Whole Schmear (Part 1)” Feb 15, 2023
    Show notes The Whole Schmear!

    Spoiler alert: this story has a happy ending. At its core, our podcast is the story of a creative relationship. How making a dumb horror movie destroyed that relationship. And how doing a podcast about making that dumb horror movie healed the wounds and reignited the relationship. That’s after not speaking to each other for twenty-five years. In fact, doing the podcast began a whole schmear of things unto itself!

    How It All Began…

    Gil Adler and I were poised to make a movie we thought would alter our careers for the better. “Dead Easy” was a psychological thriller. The whole “Tales From The Crypt” creative team were looking forward to making that movie. Hell, we spent six weeks in New Orleans prepping it. We were touring a swamp when Universal pulled the plug on “Dead Easy”, called us home to LA and told us “You’re doing ‘Bordello Of Blood'”‘ instead”.

    Everything that happened after that was a catastrophe (of one kind or another).

    We’ve always seen season one, episodes one-through-five as “our story”. Here, for the first time, we’ve put together all five episodes into one episode (well, into two episodes – the whole schmear was too large to publish as one single podcast – file size limits, ya know?). This episode contains parts one through four. The next podcast (S2E24 – which will drop almost concurrently) will contain part five).

    And There’s More…!

    We’ve also added a few tantalizing hints about the streaming show Gil and I are about to take out into the TV marketplace: “Are You Afraid?” Think of it as “Walking Dead” meets “Buffy The Vampire Slayer: meets “Sweeny Todd” (without the music). If you enjoyed the wicked fun of Tales From The Crypt, you’ll love “Are You Afraid?”


    S2E22: “Let’s Get Lit!” Feb 08, 2023
    Show notes

    Ross Emery is both a director of photography and a cinematographer (we’ll discuss the differences). He and Gil worked together on two features – “Superman Returns” and “Valkyrie“. – both times as second unit director of photography. That’s another difference we’ll discuss during the podcast – the one between a “first unit” and a “second unit” on a film set. Superman, it turns out, was the first tentpole feature film shot entirely on digital cameras. The technology wasn’t quite ready for its closeup.

    But, as it’s evolved, the technology has improved to the point where Marvel Studios (Ross has shot “Shang-Chi” and “The Wolverine“) no longer fix things in post production, they practically produce the whole thing there. Digital filmmaking really has changed filmmaking (it’s not even actual “film” making, is it?)

    Pre-Digital

    Over the course of his career, Ross has worked cheap like horror innovator William Castle and worked big (on movies like Superman Returns, Valkyrie, the Matrix movies and Alien: Covenant). He’s got stories from Hollywood’s “dark ages” – when they rolled actual film through the cameras.

    Ross Emery

    Back then. as Ross describes it, film developing was a black art and DP’s could never be sure their work turned out okay until after they personally had eyeballed it. Fortunately for Ross, the magic, mostly, worked to his advantage. Along the way, Ross has worked on projects he remember fondly and a couple of unmitigated disasters. Usually, it comes down to the people involved in the project.

    Since our podcast goes by the name “How NOT To Make A Movie”, we thought it’d be fun to talk about a movie that’s even more of a disaster than “Bordello Of Blood”. “The Island Of Dr. Moreau is infamous for being a creative nightmare on steroids. Our old pal John Frankenheimer directed it. We’ll swap war stories about the Frankenheimer Experience while Gil and Ross will swap remembrances about working with Bryan Singer.

    Ross also has Harvey Weinstein stories. Ross worked for Harvey a bunch of times. As Ross will describe, one never chose to work for Harvey. Harvey decided you would work for him and that would be that. We also talk about how to light super hero movies – there really is a trick.

    This one has an embarrassment of riches. I recommend getting lit to listen. But, even if you can’t get lit, it’s still a real pleasure to listen to.


    S2 Bonus Episode – Our Visit To CreepIE-Con Feb 06, 2023
    Show notes Alan & Jason visit CreepI.E.Con

    Welcome to a special, bonus episode of the How Not To Make A Movie Podcast: Alan & Jason visit the CreepIE-Con horror convention!

    This past weekend was the Creepie-con horror convention in Ontario just outside Los Angeles. It’s not one of the big horror conventions, but being as it’s here in Southern California, it still attracts a fair amount of on-screen talent for signings and photos because “proximity”.

    Now, I really hadn’t been to a horror convention before. That seems strange considering all the horror I’ve done. I went to Comic Con once – the year they first started releasing “Tales From The Crypt” DVDs. We did a panel about the show to a very packed room. It was a blast.

    It was a while ago, too.

    And, as Gil and I are about to unleash a streaming horror series upon the marketplace – and then, hopefully, the world – it seemed like a good time to get into the horror convention flow. So, I called Jason Stein – my other partner in crime on this enterprise. And, together, on Saturday, we headed east – to the Ontario Convention Center. And CreepIE-con.

    Among the talent lineup: some of the cast of Scream, Matthew Lillard, Skeet Ulrich, Jamie Kennedy, Alex Winter, Lee Waddell, Lauren Lavera, Eliot Fulham, Felissa Rose (one of Jason’s favorites) and Damien Leone from “The Terrifier” (another of Jason’s favorites).

    Also in the house – our friends Chelsea Rebecca and James Janisse, hosts of the spectacular “Dead Meat Podcast” and YouTube channel.

    The most striking about the horror community – and the horror community already knows this about themselves – they are some of the sweetest people on the planet. And it is downright fun watching them have fun.


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