The Gray Area with Sean Illing

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Why does middle school suck? Mar 03, 2022

Show notes

Hillary Frank, the creator of the podcasts The Longest Shortest Time and Here Lies Me, talks with journalist and author Judith Warner about middle school. They discuss the history of middle school in America and abroad, some of the formative social forces at play for middle schoolers, why the journey through middle school is akin to a kind of death, and why it is that children of this age — on the verge of adolescence — often act like such... jerks.

Host: Hillary Frank (@hillaryfrank), podcast producer, author

Guest: Judith Warner, author

References:

And Then They Stopped Talking to Me: Making Sense of Middle Schoolby Judith Warner (Crown; 2020, paperback, 2021)
Here Lies Mepodcast (written, produced, and directed by Hillary Frank; produced in collaboration with Lemonada Media)
Weird Parenting Winsby Hillary Frank (TarcherPerigree; 2019)

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This episode was made by:

Producer: Erikk Geannikis
Editor: Amy Drozdowska
Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Russia's war with Ukraine — and reality Feb 28, 2022

Show notes

Sean Illing talks with journalist, author, and Russian disinformation scholar Peter Pomerantsev about the invasion of Ukraine. Recorded on Friday, Feb. 25th, they discuss the current state of the conflict, whether or not the warped rationales for Putin's invasion are actually convincing to the Russian people, and what sanctions might possibly make a lasting difference for the future of both Russia and Ukraine.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Peter Pomerantsev (@peterpomeranzev), author; Senior Fellow, Agora Institute, Johns Hopkins University

References:

This Is Not Propaganda: Adventures in the War Against Realityby Peter Pomerantsev (Public Affairs; 2019)
Nothing Is True and Everything Is Possible: The Surreal Heart of the New Russiaby Peter Pomerantsev (Public Affairs; 2014)
"Vladimir Putin: What's going on inside his head?" by Peter Pomerantsev (The Guardian; Feb. 26)
"The Russian roots of our misinformation problem" by Sean Illing, in conversation with Peter Pomerantsev (Vox; Oct. 26, 2020)

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This episode was made by:

Producer: Erikk Geannikis
Editor: Amy Drozdowska
Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Robert Glasper on why Black Radio is back Feb 24, 2022

Show notes

Vox’s Jamil Smith talks with musician Robert Glasper, four-time Grammy-winner, about the release of his new album Black Radio III. They discuss Glasper's distinctive genre-defying sound, his unique gift for musical collaboration, and how he blends elements of R&B, gospel, and rock to create music that might irk some members of the "jazz police."

Host: Jamil Smith (@JamilSmith), Senior Correspondent, Vox

Guest: Robert Glasper (@robertglasper), musician

References:

Robert Glasper's Black Radio III(available everywhere Feb. 25)
Robert Glasper, "The Worst" (Jhené Aiko)
Tour dates and more at robertglasper.com

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This episode was made by:

Producer: Erikk Geannikis
Editor: Amy Drozdowska
Engineer: Efim Shapiro
Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Could we lose delicious foods forever? Feb 17, 2022

Show notes

Vox's Benji Jones talks with food journalist and author Dan Saladino, whose new book Eating to Extinction documents rare foods and food cultures from around the world, showing how they are being affected by climate change, globalization, and industrial agricultural practices. Dan shares many incredible stories from his travels and reporting, including the last known garden growing a unique soybean, a 16-foot high corn that produces its own fertilizer, and a complex symbiosis between man, bird, and bee in remote Tanzania.

Host: Benji Jones (@BenjiSJones), Environmental reporter, Vox

Guest: Dan Saladino (@DanSaladinoUK), food journalist & author

References:

Eating to Extinction: The World's Rarest Foods and Why We Need to Save Them by Dan Saladino (FSG; 2022)
The Food Programme (BBC Radio 4; also on Apple Podcasts)
The Ark of Taste (Slow Food Foundation for Biodiversity)
"The Corn of the Future Is Hundreds of Years Old and Makes Its Own Mucus" by Jason Daley (Smithsonian; Aug. 10, 2018)

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This episode was made by:

Producer: Erikk Geannikis
Editor: Amy Drozdowska
Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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What Don't Look Up is really about Feb 14, 2022

Show notes

Sean Illing talks with David Sirota, the journalist turned Oscar-nominated co-writer (with director Adam McKay) of the film Don't Look Up. They talk about the movie and how it was originally received, who the truest targets of the film's critique were, and what the movie has to say about how we can actually solve the monumental problems that we face as a society.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: David Sirota (@davidsirota), co-writer (with Adam McKay), Don't Look Up; journalist and founder, The Daily Poster

References:

Don't Look Up, dir. by Adam McKay (Netflix; 2021)
"Four ways of knowing the meta-crisis" by Jonathan Rowson (Perspectiva/YouTube; Jan. 25)
Meltdown, a podcast narrative by David Sirota; produced by Jigsaw Productions & Transmitter Media (Audible; 2021)
The Uprising: An Unauthorized Tour of the Populist Revolt Scaring Wall Street and Washington by David Sirota (Crown; 2008)
"Steve Bannon on How 2008 Planted the Seed for the Trump Presidency" by Noah Kulwin (New York; Aug. 10, 2018)

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Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by:

Producer: Erikk Geannikis
Editor: Amy Drozdowska
Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Democracy in crisis, part 2: The two-party problem Feb 10, 2022

Show notes

Just how worried should we be about the future of American democracy? This is the question at the center of a two-part series from Vox Conversations and host Zack Beauchamp.

For part two, Zack talks with political scientist Lee Drutman, author of Breaking the Two-Party Doom Loop. They discuss the history of the two-party system in American politics, and examine a number of possible structural reforms that could work to get the U.S. out of the morass it's in, looking to several other countries' democracies for inspiration.

And, if you missed it, check out part one in this series, a lively debate between Zack and the New York Times's Ross Douthat, on just how close we are to political violence, authoritarianism, and democratic breakdown.

Host: Zack Beauchamp (@zackbeauchamp), Senior Correspondent, Vox

Guest: Lee Drutman (@leedrutman), senior fellow, New America

References:

"How does this end?" by Zack Beauchamp (Vox; Jan. 3)
Breaking the Two-Party Doom Loop: The Case for Multiparty Democracy in America (Oxford; 2020)
"Democracy in America? Partisanship, Polarization, and the Robustness of Support for Democracy in the United States" by Matthew H. Graham and Milan W. Svolik (American Political Science Review, 114 (2); May 2020)
"One way to reform the House of Representatives? Expand it" by Lee Drutman and Yuval Levin (Washington Post; Dec. 9, 2021)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by:

Producer: Erikk Geannikis
Editor: Amy Drozdowska
Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Why we can't pay attention anymore Feb 07, 2022

Show notes

Sean Illing talks with the author Johann Hari about his new book Stolen Focus, which explores what's happening — and what's already happened — to our attention. They discuss how exactly Big Tech "stole" our ability to focus, what many leading scientists say about how we are psychologically and physiologically changed by the powerful new draws on our attention, and whether or not we need an "attention rebellion" to fight back against the tech giants, whose business models depend on us getting easily distracted.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Johann Hari (@johannhari101), author

References:

Stolen Focus: Why You Can't Pay Attention — and How to Think Deeply Again by Johann Hari (Crown; 2022)
Companion site with audio excerpts from interviews with experts and additional endnotes: stolenfocusbook.com
Getting Ahead of ADHDby Joel T. Nigg (Guilford; 2017)
"Capitalism is turning us into addicts" by Sean Illing, interviewing David T, Courtwright (Vox; Apr. 18, 2020)
Understanding Media: The Extensions of Manby Marshall McLuhan (1964)
"Enhancing attention through training" by Michael Posner, et al. (Current Opinion in Behavioral Sciences (4); 2015)
"Facebook and texting made me do it: Media-induced task-switching while studying" by Larry Rosen, et al. (Computers in Human Behavior, 29 (3); 2013)
"Accelerating dynamics of collective attention" by Sune Lehmann, et al. (Nature Communications; 2019)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by:

Producer: Erikk Geannikis
Editor: Amy Drozdowska
Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Democracy in crisis, part 1: Ross Douthat isn't too worried Feb 03, 2022

Show notes

Just how worried should we be about the future of American democracy? This is the question at the center of a two-part series from Vox Conversations and host Zack Beauchamp.

For part one, Zack talks with New York Times columnist Ross Douthat about whether or not we'll soon see an increase in violent political conflict in the United States. They discuss the role of bellicose fringe groups in politics today, whether or not a recent spate of restrictive voting laws constitute creeping authoritarianism, and the prospects that we'll see future attempts to subvert elections modeled on Trump's efforts in 2020 — or even going further.

Be sure to catch part two in this series, on breaking the two-party system in America and other possible democracy reforms, coming Thursday, Feb. 10th.

Host: Zack Beauchamp (@zackbeauchamp), Senior Correspondent, Vox

Guest: Ross Douthat (@DouthatNYT), Opinion Columnist, New York Times

References:

"How does this end?" by Zack Beauchamp (Vox; Jan. 3)
"Let's Not Invent a Civil War" by Ross Douthat (New York Times; Jan. 12)
How Civil Wars Startby Barbara F. Walter (Crown; 2022)
"A Threat to Our Democracy: Election Subversion in the 2021 Legislative Session," Voting Rights Lab report (Sept. 29, 2021)
"Republican Party moves to replace GOP board member who voted to certify Michigan election" by Paul Egan (Detroit Free Press; Jan. 18, 2021)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by:

Producer: Erikk Geannikis
Editor: Amy Drozdowska
Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Pod Save the Democrats Jan 31, 2022

Show notes

Sean Illing talks with Dan Pfeiffer, former senior advisor to President Obama and co-host of the Pod Save America podcast, about what is wrong with the Democratic Party's brand right now. They discuss what Dan calls the "Democratic messaging deficit," as well as whether the Democrats' stated values are in line with their efforts while in control of the Congress and White House, and what the Dems are really in store for in the midterm elections later this year — and beyond.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Dan Pfeiffer (@danpfeiffer), co-host, Pod Save Americafrom Crooked Media; former senior advisor to President Obama

References:

"U.S. Political Party Preferences Shifted Greatly During 2021" by Jeffrey M. Jones (Gallup; Jan. 17)
"Qualitative Research Findings - Virginia Post-Election Research" by Brian Striker and Oren Savir (ARG Research; Nov. 15, 2021)
"Sununu says he skipped Senate bid to avoid being 'roadblock' to Biden for two years" by Lexi Lonas (The Hill; Jan. 18)
"How the Media's Addiction to Bad News Hurts Dems" by Dan Pfeiffer (The Message Box; Jan. 3)
"The most common words in Hillary Clinton's speeches, in one chart" by David Roberts (Vox; Dec. 16, 2016)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by:

Producer: Erikk Geannikis
Editor: Amy Drozdowska
Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

A Yellowjackets creator spills his guts Jan 27, 2022

Show notes

Vox's Constance Grady talks with Bart Nickerson, the co-creator of new TV show Yellowjackets, which airs on Showtime. Yellowjackets follows a girls' soccer team, stranded in the Canadian wilderness in 1996 as teenagers — and also the present-day middle-aged women that some of the survivors become. Bart and Constance discuss the role of trauma on television, the process of crafting characters across two timelines, and why the struggle for survival (and cannibalism) fits a story about adolescence.

Host: Constance Grady (@constancegrady), staff writer, Vox

Guests: Bart Nickerson, co-creator (with Ashley Lyle) of Yellowjackets on Showtime

References:

"The Case Against the Trauma Plot" by Parul Sehgal (New Yorker; Dec. 27, 2021)
"Too many movies right now are 'about trauma.' The Matrix Resurrections actually does the work," by Emily VanDerWerff (Vox; Dec. 24, 2021)
"Yellowjackets is prestige Pretty Little Liars. Hear me out," by Constance Grady (Vox; Jan. 7)
"Yellowjackets brilliantly mixes teen angst, cannibalism, and midlife crises — with major Lost vibes" by Emily VanDerWerff (Vox; Nov. 12, 2021)
"The slippery genius of the Cinderella story" by Constance Grady (Vox; June 5, 2019)
"'Yellowjackets' Leans In to Savagery" by Alexis Soloski (New York Times; Nov. 12, 2021)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by:

Producer: Erikk Geannikis
Editor: Amy Drozdowska
Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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