The Gray Area with Sean Illing

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Anita Hill finally gets even May 12, 2022

Show notes

Vox's Fabiola Cineas talks with Anita Hill, whose testimony during the 1991 confirmation hearings for now-Justice Clarence Thomas highlighted the prominence of sexual harassment and unwanted sexual advances in the workplace. Hill discusses how those hearings changed her, whether or not she has respect for the Supreme Court as an institution, and how her fight to stop gender violence continues today.

Host: Fabiola Cineas (@FabiolaCineas), Reporter, Vox

Guest: Anita Hill (@AnitaHill), professor, Brandeis University

References:

Getting Even with Anita Hill (Pushkin)
Believing: Our Thirty-Year Journey to End Gender Violenceby Anita Hill (Viking; 2021)
Strange Justice: The Selling of Clarence Thomasby Jane Mayer and Jill Abramson (1994)

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This episode was made by:

Producer: Erikk Geannikis
Editor: Amy Drozdowska
Engineer: Patrick Boyd
Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Elites have captured identity politics May 09, 2022

Show notes

Sean Illing talks with Olúfẹ́mi Táíwò, whose new book Elite Capture is about how the wealthy and powerful co-opt political movements, and use the language of progressive activism to further their ends. They discuss the history and meaning of "identity politics," the notion of "woke capitalism," and how to arrive at a more constructive politics — one that actually engages directly in redistributing social resources and power, rather than achieving merely symbolic gains.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Olúfẹ́mi Táíwò (@OlufemiOTaiwo), author; professor of philosophy, Georgetown University

References:

Elite Capture: How the Powerful Took Over Identity Politics (And Everything Else)by Olúfẹ́mi O. Táíwò (Haymarket; 2022)
"Identity Politics and Elite Capture" by Olúfẹ́mi O. Táíwò (Boston Review; May 7, 2020)
"Niani S. Phillips is an Environmentalist with a serious commitment to sustainability." (McDonald's YouTube; Mar. 31)
The Combahee River Collective Statement (1977)
"Until Black Women Are Free, None of Us Will Be Free" by Keeanga-Yamahtta Taylor (New Yorker; July 20, 2020)
"Black Lives Matter Secretly Bought a $6 Million House" by Sean Campbell (Intelligencer; Apr. 4)
Why I Am Not A Feminist: A Feminist Manifestoby Jessa Crispin (Melville House; 2017)
"What's New About Woke Racial Capitalism (And What Isn't)" by Enzo Rossi and Olúfẹ́mi O. Táíwò (Spectre; Dec. 18, 2020)

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This episode was made by:

Producer: Erikk Geannikis
Editor: Amy Drozdowska
Engineer: Patrick Boyd
Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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The moral dangers of dirty work May 05, 2022

Show notes

Vox’s Jamil Smith talks with journalist and author Eyal Press about "dirty work" — the jobs Americans do that, as Press explains, can lead workers to perform morally compromising activities unwittingly. They discuss examples of this kind of work (drone pilots, meat packers, prison aides), talk about its relation to the term "essential workers" that gained prominence during the pandemic, and explain how certain jobs highlight the disparities of class, race, and gender in American society.

Host: Jamil Smith (@JamilSmith), Senior Correspondent, Vox

Guest: Eyal Press (@EyalPress), author; journalist

References:

Dirty Work: Essential Jobs and the Hidden Toll of Inequality in America by Eyal Press (FSG; 2021)
"What does it mean to take America's 'jobs of last resort'?" by Jamil Smith (Vox; Apr. 22)
Empire of Pain: The Secret History of the Sackler Dynastyby Patrick Radden Keefe (Doubleday; 2021)
The Social Network, dir. David Fincher (2010)
The Jungle by Upton Sinclair (1906)
The Invisible Man by Ralph Ellison (1952)
The Civilizing Process by Norbert Elias (1939)
"Good People and Dirty Work" by Everett C. Hughes (Social Problems, vol. 10 (1); 1962)
The Line Becomes a Riverby Francisco Cantú (Riverhead; 2019)
"Inside the Massive Jail that Doubles as Chicago's Largest Mental Health Facility" by Lili Holzer-Glier (Vera Institute of Justice; 2016)

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This episode was made by:

Producer: Erikk Geannikis
Editor: Amy Drozdowska
Engineer: Patrick Boyd
Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Did the sexual revolution go wrong? May 02, 2022

Show notes

Sean Illing talks with author and Washington Post columnist Christine Emba about whether or not we need to rethink sex. They discuss why, according to the research and reporting in Emba's new book Rethinking Sex, many Americans are unhappy with the sex they're having, and don't fully understand what they want. They also talk about how her Catholic faith informs her views on sex, why it's necessary to expand on the framework of "consent," and what kind of sexual culture Emba hopes to see in the world.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Christine Emba (@ChristineEmba), author & reporter

References:

Rethinking Sex: A Provocationby Christine Emba (Sentinel; 2022)
"Consent is not enough. We need a new sexual ethic," by Christine Emba (Washington Post; Mar. 17)
"People Have Been Having Less Sex—whether They're Teenagers or 40-Somethings" by Emily Willingham (Scientific American; Jan. 3)

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This episode was made by:

Producer: Erikk Geannikis
Editor: Amy Drozdowska
Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Who decides how to conserve nature? Apr 28, 2022

Show notes

Vox's Benji Jones talks with Indigenous leader Kimaren ole Riamit about the role of Indigenous peoples in the conservation movement. Bringing the perspective of his upbringing in the Kenyan Maasai pastoral community as well as advanced degrees earned at Western institutions, Kimaren discusses with Benji the power and potential of Indigenous knowledge in combating the climate crisis, and the challenges in bridging that knowledge with the global conservation effort.

Host: Benji Jones (@BenjiSJones), Environmental reporter, Vox

Guest: Kimaren ole Riamit, Maasai leader

References:

"Growing up Maasai and the art of healing the Earth" by Benji Jones (Vox; Mar. 16)

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This episode was made by:

Producer: Erikk Geannikis
Editor: Amy Drozdowska
Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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The Philosophers: Loneliness and totalitarianism Apr 25, 2022

Show notes

Sean Illing talks with professor Lyndsey Stonebridge about the philosopher Hannah Arendt, author of The Origins of Totalitarianism. Arendt might be best known for coining the phrase “the banality of evil” in her reporting on the trial of Adolf Eichmann in 1961, but in this episode Sean and Lyndsey discuss Arendt's insights into the roots of mass movements, how her flight from Nazi occupation shaped her worldview, and how loneliness and isolation — which abound in our world today — can prepare a population for an authoritarian turn.

The Philosophers is a new monthly series from Vox Conversations. Each episode will focus on a philosophical figure or school of thought from the past, and discuss how their ideas can help us make sense of our modern world and lives today.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews writer, Vox

Guest: Lyndsey Stonebridge (@lyndseystonebri), author; professor of humanities and human rights, University of Birmingham

Works by Hannah Arendt:

The Origins of Totalitarianism (1951), with the inclusion of the chapter "Ideology and Terror" in 1953; Eichmann in Jerusalem (1963); The Human Condition (1958); "Home to Roost: A Bicentennial Address" (1975); "Personal Responsibility under Dictatorship" (1964)

Other References:

The Judicial Imagination: Writing After Nurembergby Lyndsey Stonebridge (Edinburgh University Press; 2011)
Placeless People: Writings, Rights, and Refugeesby Lyndsey Stonebridge (Oxford; 2018)
Thinking Like Hannah Arendt by Lyndsey Stonebridge (Jonathan Cape; forthcoming 2022)
"A 1951 book about totalitarianism is flying off the shelves. Here's why" by Sean Illing (Vox; updated Jan. 30, 2019)
"Where loneliness can lead" by Samantha Rose Hill (Aeon; Oct. 16, 2020)
The Lonely Crowdby David Riesman (1950)
Immanuel Kant, Groundwork for the Metaphysics of Morals (1785) for the "categorical imperative"

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Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by:

Producer: Erikk Geannikis
Editor: Amy Drozdowska
Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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The War in Ukraine, Explained — Part 4: The future of Europe Apr 21, 2022

Show notes

Russia's invasion of Ukraine is one of the biggest and most confusing political events of our lifetimes. We aim to bring some clarity in this special four-part series from Vox Conversations and host Zack Beauchamp, The War in Ukraine, Explained.

In part four, Zack speaks with author, political scientist, and scholar of European politics Ivan Krastev. They discuss the reverberations of Russia's invasion of Ukraine across Europe, from a sudden change of course in Germany and elections in France to the threatened intellectual foundations of the European Union nations' shared postwar identity, and how the war in Ukraine will shape the EU's future relations with the U.S. and China — and the future of Europe itself.

Host: Zack Beauchamp (@zackbeauchamp), Senior Correspondent, Vox

Guest: Ivan Krastev, political scientist; chairman, Centre for Liberal Strategies; permanent fellow, Institute for Human Sciences, IWM Vienna

References:

The Light That Failed: Why the West is Losing the Fight for Democracyby Stephen Holmes and Ivan Krastev (Pegasus; 2020)
"We Are All Living in Vladimir Putin's World Now" by Ivan Krastev (New York Times; Feb. 27)
"How the Weak Win Wars: A Theory of Asymmetric Conflict" by Ivan Arreguín-Toft (International Security, vol. 26 (1); 2001)
Postwar: A History of Europe Since 1945 by Tony Judt (Penguin; 2006)
The Idea of India by Sunil Khilnani (FSG; 1997)

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Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by:

Producer: Erikk Geannikis
Editor: Amy Drozdowska
Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Michael Lewis on why Americans distrust experts Apr 18, 2022

Show notes

Sean Illing talks with writer Michael Lewis about why it is that Americans are so good at producing knowledge, but so bad at identifying and utilizing that knowledge — the central issue of the new season of his podcast "Against the Rules." They discuss who counts as an expert, some fundamental impediments to disseminating knowledge, and whether or not there is a possible future where Americans regain their trust in experts, institutions, and each other.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Michael Lewis, author

References:

Against the Rules with Michael Lewis podcast (Pushkin)
The Premonition: A Pandemic Storyby Michael Lewis (W.W. Norton; 2021 - paperback; 2022)
The Fifth Riskby Michael Lewis (W.W. Norton; 2018)
The Revolt of the Public and the Crisis of Authority in the New Millenniumby Martin Gurri (Stripe; 2014)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by:

Producer: Erikk Geannikis
Editor: Amy Drozdowska
Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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The War in Ukraine, Explained — Part 3: The nuclear threat Apr 14, 2022

Show notes

In part three, Zack speaks with professor, blogger, and nuclear arms expert Jeff Lewis about the looming nuclear threat of the conflict in Ukraine. They discuss the probability of escalation by both Russia and the U.S., what "tactical" nuclear weapons really are and how they're misunderstood, the double-edged sword of deterrence, and some of the ethical, political, and psychological realities of managing large stockpiles of devastating nuclear weapons.

Host: Zack Beauchamp (@zackbeauchamp), Senior Correspondent, Vox

Guest: Jeff Lewis (@ArmsControlWonk), founder and contributor, Arms Control Wonk; director, East Asia Nonproliferation Program, Middlebury Institute of International Studies at Monterey

References:

"Is Russia committing genocide in Ukraine?" by Zack Beauchamp (Vox; Apr. 13)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by:

Producer: Erikk Geannikis
Editor: Amy Drozdowska
Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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The case for regret Apr 11, 2022

Show notes

Sean Illing talks with writer Daniel Pink about his book The Power of Regret. They discuss why regret can be not only useful, but potentially the most valuable emotion we have. Daniel and Sean talk about the difference between regret and "wallowing," how to anticipate regrets and act accordingly, and Daniel shares his findings on the regrets that Americans most have in common.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Daniel Pink (@DanielPink), author

References:

The Power of Regret: How Looking Backward Moves Us Forwardby Daniel H. Pink (Riverhead; 2022)
Self-Compassion: The Proven Power of Being Kind to Yourself by Kristin Neff (William Morrow; 2015)
The Art and Science of Personality Development by Dan P. McAdams (Guilford; 2016)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by:

Producer: Erikk Geannikis
Editor: Amy Drozdowska
Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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