The Gray Area with Sean Illing

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Brian Stelter thinks the news has a reliability problem Mar 30, 2023

Show notes

Will the Dominion Voting Systems lawsuit against Fox News be a watershed moment? Is the media industry beyond repair? Sean Illing is joined by media reporter Brian Stelter, the former host of CNN’s Reliable Sources and the author of Hoax. Together, they reflect on the relationship of news, entertainment, and politics and what the consequences of the Dominion suit might be.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area

Guest: Brian Stelter, (@brianstelter) author; former TV news host; media reporter

References:

Hoax by Brian Stelter (Simon & Schuster, 2021)
Top of the Morning: Inside the Cutthroat World of Morning TV by Brian Stelter (Grand Central, 2019)
“How Not to Cover a Bank Run” by Brian Stelter (The Atlantic, March 2023)
“I Never Truly Understood Fox News Until Now” by Brian Stelter (The Atlantic, February 2023)
“Mass Delusion in America” by Jeffrey Goldberg (The Atlantic, January 2021)
Brian Stelter’s Substack

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This episode was made by:

Producer: Erikk Geannikis
Engineer: Patrick Boyd
Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

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How corporations got all your data Mar 27, 2023

Show notes

Sean Illing speaks with Matthew Jones, historian of science and technology, and co-author (with data scientist Chris Wiggins) of the new book How Data Happened. They discuss the surprisingly long history of data from the 18th century to today, in service of explaining how we wound up in a world where our personal information is mined by giant corporations for profit. They talk about how the allure of measurement and precision spread from astronomy to the social sciences, why advertising became so bound to the operation of the internet, and how we can imagine a more democratic future for us and our data, given the unprecedented power of today's tech companies.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area

Guest: Matthew L. Jones (@nescioquid), author; James R. Barker Professor of Contemporary Civilization, Columbia University

References:

How Data Happened: A History from the Age of Reason to the Age of Algorithmsby Chris Wiggins and Matthew L. Jones (W.W. Norton; 2023)
"How Alan Turing Cracked The Enigma Code" (Imperial War Museum)
Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass media by Edward S. Herman and Noam Chomsky (1988)
"The manipulation of the American mind: Edward Bernays and the birth of public relations" by Richard Gunderman (The Conversation; July 9, 2015)
On Herbert Simon (The Economist; Mar. 20, 2009)
The Age of Surveillance Capitalismby Shoshana Zuboff (Profile; 2019)
Jeffrey Hammerbacher quoted in "This Tech Bubble Is Different" by Ashlee Vance (Bloomberg Businessweek; Apr. 14, 2011)

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This episode was made by:

Producer: Erikk Geannikis
Engineers: Patrick Boyd & Brandon McFarland
Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

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The case for failure Mar 16, 2023

Show notes

Is our society's fixation with success hindering our ability to find humility? Sean Illing speaks with Costica Bradatan about his new book In Praise of Failure: Four Lessons in Humility, which explores failure through the lives of historical figures like Gandhi and the philosopher Simone Weil. They discuss the benefits of engaging with our limits and what we can learn from those who've embraced failure.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area

Guest: Costica Bradatan, Professor at Texas Tech University and Honorary Research Professor of Philosophy at University of Queensland in Australia, Religion/Philosophy editor for the Los Angeles Review of Books, and author of In Praise of Failure: Four Lessons in Humility.

References:

In Praise of Failure: Four Lessons in Humilityby Costica Bradatan (Harvard University Press, 2023)
The Myth of Sisyphus by Albert Camus, translated by Justin O'Brien (Vintage Books, 1991)
The Birth of Tragedy by Friedrich Nietzsche, translated by Walter Kaufman (1872)
The Trouble with Being Born by E.M. Cioran, translated by Richard Howard (Arcade Publishing, 1973)

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This episode was made by:

Engineer: Patrick Boyd
Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

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Poetry as religion Mar 13, 2023

Show notes

Sean Illing speaks with poet and historian Jennifer Michael Hecht, whose new book The Wonder Paradox asks: if we don't have God or religion, what — if anything — do we lose? They discuss how religion accesses meaning — through things like prayer, ceremony, and ritual — and Jennifer speaks on the ways that poetry can play similar roles in a secular way. They also discuss some of the "tricks" that poets use, share favorite poems, and explore what it would mean to "live the questions" — and even learn to love them — without having the answers.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area

Guest: Jennifer Michael Hecht (@Freudeinstein), poet, historian; author

References:

The Wonder Paradox: Embracing the Weirdness of Existence and the Poetry of Our Lives by Jennifer Michael Hecht (FSG; 2023)
Doubt: A Historyby Jennifer Michael Hecht (HarperOne; 2004)
Rainer Maria Rilke, from a 1903 letter to Franz Kappus, published in Letters to a Young Poet (pub. 1929)
Leaves of Grass by Walt Whitman (1855)
"Why do parrots live so long?" by Charles Q. Choi (LiveScience; May 23, 2022)
"The survival of poetry depends on the failure of language," from The Tree of Meaning: Language, Mind, and Ecologyby Robert Bringhurst (Counterpoint; 2009)
"Traveler, There Is No Road" ("Caminante, no hay camino") by Antonio Machado (1917)
"A Free Man's Worship" by Bertrand Russell (1903)
Totality and Infinity: An Essay on Exteriority by Emmanuel Levinas (1961)

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This episode was made by:

Producer: Erikk Geannikis
Engineer: Patrick Boyd
Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

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Revisiting the American Dream Mar 09, 2023

Show notes

In America, there's been an increase of available jobs, and there's also been a series of high-profile layoffs, strikes, and calls for unionization. The social safety net for workers is disappearing, so what can people do? Sean Illing speaks with Alissa Quart about her new book, Bootstrapped: Liberating Ourselves from the American Dream, about why people need to rid themselves of the American Dream's individualistic ideals and embrace dependence in order to succeed.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area

Guest: Alissa Quart (@lisquart), author of nonfiction and poetry,and co-creator of the Economic Hardship Reporting Project

References:

Bootstrapped: Liberating Ourselves from the American Dreamby Alissa Quart (Harper Collins, 2023)
Squeezed: Why Our Families Can’t Afford America by Alissa Quart (Harper Collins, 2019)
Tailspin: The People and Forces Behind America’s Fifty-Year Fall–And Those Fighting To Reverse Itby Steven Brill(Penguin Random House, 2018)

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Support The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by:

Engineer: Patrick Boyd
Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

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The cost of saving pandas Mar 06, 2023

Show notes

The giant panda is no longer endangered. This, of course, is good news. But the model of conservation that worked to protect these iconic bears has failed to help the countless other threatened species on Earth, most of which are far less charismatic. Guest host Benji Jones talks with Jason Gilchrist, a wildlife ecologist. They discuss if there is another way we should approach conservation, what exactly we should be trying to save, and why.

Host: Benji Jones (@BenjiSJones), Senior Environmental Reporter, Vox

Guest: Jason Gilchrist (@jgilchrist13), ecologist and lecturer at Edinburgh Napier University

References:

“We pulled pandas back from the brink of extinction. Meanwhile, the rest of nature collapsed.” by Benji Jones (Vox, 2023)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of The Gray Area. Subscribe in your favorite podcast app.

Support The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by:

Engineer: Patrick Boyd
Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall
Special thanks to Katelyn Bogucki

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Breaking our family patterns Mar 02, 2023

Show notes

Sean Illing speaks with marriage and family therapist Vienna Pharaon, whose new book The Origins of You aims to help us identify and heal the wounds that originated from our family, which shape our patterns of behavior in relationships and throughout our lives. Sean and Vienna talk about how we can spot and name our "origin wounds," discuss practical wisdom to help break free from the ways these pains grip us, and Sean directly confronts some real issues from his upbringing and family life.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area

Guest: Vienna Pharaon (@mindfulmft), marriage & family therapist; author

References:

The Origins of You: How Breaking Family Patterns Can Liberate the Way We Live and Love by Vienna Pharaon (G.P. Putnam's Sons; 2023)
When the Body Says No: The Cost of Hidden Stressby Dr. Gabor Maté (Wiley; 2011)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of The Gray Area. Subscribe in your favorite podcast app.

Support The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by:

Producer: Erikk Geannikis
Engineer: Patrick Boyd
Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

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For Black horror fans, fact is scarier than fiction Feb 27, 2023

Show notes

Guest host Alissa Wilkinson talks with Dr. Robin R. Means Coleman about her new book, The Black Guy Dies First: Black Horror Cinema from Fodder to Oscar. Dr. Coleman is the Vice President & Associate Provost for Diversity and Inclusion and Chief Diversity Officer at Northwestern University, where she is a Professor of Communication Studies. Together, they discuss the tropes in Black horror, and how inequity in Hollywood has shaped the attitudes of a nation toward Black people.

Host: Alissa Wilkinson (@alissamarie), senior culture writer, Vox

Guest: Dr. Robin R. Means Coleman (@MeansColeman), co-author of The Black Guy Dies First: Black Horror Cinema from Fodder to Oscar, Vice President & Associate Provost for Diversity & Inclusion, Professor of Communication Studies

References:

The Black Guy Dies First: Black Horror Cinema from Fodder to Oscarby Robin R. Means Coleman and Mark H. Harris (Simon & Schuster, 2023)
Horror Noire: A History Of Black Horror (Xavier Burgin, 2021)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of The Gray Area. Subscribe in your favorite podcast app.

Support The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by:

Engineer: Patrick Boyd
Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

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Taking Nietzsche seriously Feb 23, 2023

Show notes

Sean Illing talks with political science professor Matt McManus about the political thought of Friedrich Nietzsche, the 19th-century German philosopher with a complicated legacy, despite his crossover into popular culture. They discuss how Nietzsche's work has been interpreted — and misinterpreted — since his death in 1900, how his radical political views emerge from his body of work, and how we can use Nietzsche's philosophy in order to interpret some key features of our contemporary politics.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area

Guest: Matt McManus (@MattPolProf), lecturer, University of Michigan; author

Referenced works by Friedrich Nietzsche (1844–1900):

Ecce Homo (1888; published posthumously), Thus Spoke Zarathustra (1883), Beyond Good and Evil (1886), Twilight of the Idols (1888), The Birth of Tragedy (1872), The Antichrist (1888; published posthumously), The Gay Science (1882)

References:

Nietzsche and the Politics of Reaction: Essays on Liberalism, Socialism, and Aristocratic Radicalism, ed. Matthew McManus (Palgrave; 2023)
The Political Right and Equality: Turning Back the Tide of Egalitarian Modernity by Matthew McManus (Routledge; forthcoming)
Nietzsche's Great Politics by Hugo Drochon (Princeton; 2016)
Nietzsche's Letter to Georg Brandes (Dec. 2, 1887)
Nietzsche: Philosopher, Psychologist, Antichrist by Walter Kaufmann (Princeton; 2013)
“God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers?” from Nietzsche's The Gay Science, §125 (1882; tr. W. Kaufmann)
"Atheist bus campaign spreads the word of no God nationwide" by Riazat Butt (The Guardian; Jan. 6, 2009)
"Since Copernicus man has been rolling from the center toward X," from Nietzsche's The Will To Power, published posthumously in 1901.
Immanuel Kant, Metaphysics of Morals (1797)
Kierkegaard's Attack Upon "Christendom", 1854-1855 (tr. Walter Lowrie)
Nietzsche, the Aristocratic Rebel by Domenico Losurdo (Brill; 2019)
Joseph de Maistre, Considerations on France (1797)
"Does Liberalism Mean Supporting Communism?" by Matthew McManus (Liberal Currents; Jan. 4, 2022)
Frantz Fanon, The Wretched of the Earth (1963)
United States of Socialism by Dinesh D'Souza (All Points; 2020)
"The alt-right is drunk on bad readings of Nietzsche. The Nazis were too" by Sean Illing (Vox; Dec. 30, 2018)
The Third Reich series by Richard J. Evans
Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged (1957)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of The Gray Area. Subscribe in your favorite podcast app.

Support The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by:

Producer: Erikk Geannikis
Engineer: Patrick Boyd
Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

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The dark history of Silicon Valley Feb 16, 2023

Show notes

Sean Illing speaks with Malcolm Harris, a journalist, critic, and author of the new book Palo Alto: A History of California, Capitalism, and the World. Together, they discuss the weird history of the city that's birthed Stanford University, Hewlett Packard, Theranos, and the model of capitalism that's made an impact across the globe.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area

Guest: Malcolm Harris (@BigMeanInternet), journalist, critic and author

References: