The Gray Area with Sean Illing

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How to keep panic from attacking Nov 06, 2023

Show notes

Sean Illing is joined by Matt Gutman, the chief national correspondent for ABC News, to talk about his new book, No Time to Panic: How I Curbed My Anxiety and Conquered a Lifetime of Panic Attacks. They discuss their personal experiences with panic, the evolutionary roots of it, and how Matt has gained control over his feelings of panic and anxiety.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area

Guest: Matt Gutman (@mattgutmanABC), author,No Time to Panic: How I Curbed My Anxiety and Conquered a Lifetime of Panic Attacks.

References:

No Time to Panic: How I Curbed My Anxiety and Conquered a Lifetime of Panic Attacksby Matt Gutman (Penguin Random House, 2023)

“The brutal mirror: What the psychedelic drug ayahuasca showed me about my life” by Sean Illing (Vox, February 2018)

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This episode was made by:

Engineer: Patrick Boyd
Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

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We Are What We Watch Oct 30, 2023

Show notes

Guest host Alissa Wilkinson speaks with Walt Hickey about his new book, You Are What You Watch: How Movies and TV Affect Everything. They discuss how entertainment affects the physical and mental states of viewers — from blood coagulation during horror movie screenings to an increase in Dalmatian adoptions after 101 Dalmatians was released in theaters — and why our responses to what we watch are worth celebrating.

Host: Alissa Wilkinson (@alissamarie), senior culture writer, Vox

Guest: Walt Hickey, (@walterhickey) author, You Are What You Watch: How Movies and TV Affect Everything

References:

You Are What You Watch: How Movies and TV Affect Everythingby Walt Hickey(Workman Publishing Company, 2023)

“How to Use Math to Crush Your Friends at Monopoly Like You've Never Done Before” by Walt Hickey (Business Insider, Jun. 2013)

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This episode was made by:

Engineer: Patrick Boyd
Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

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Werner Herzog’s ecstatic truth Oct 23, 2023

Show notes

Sean Illing speaks with one of his heroes: Werner Herzog. Herzog is a filmmaker, poet, and author of the new memoir Every Man for Himself and God Against All. They discuss "ecstatic truth," a term invented by Herzog to capture what he's really after in his work. Illing also asks him a range of big questions, such as why he is interested in Mars and whether he thinks humanity is destroying itself.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area

Guest: Werner Herzog, author, Every Man for Himself and God Against All

References:

Every Man for Himself and God Against Allby Werner Herzog(Penguin Random House, 2023)

Of Walking in Ice by Werner Herzog

Last Whispers by Lena Herzog (2022)

“Werner Herzog Talks Virtual Reality” by Patrick House (The New Yorker, Jan. 2016)

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This episode was made by:

Producer: Katelyn Bogucki
Engineer: Patrick Boyd
Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

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The lessons of Sam Bankman-Fried Oct 16, 2023

Show notes

Michael Lewis joins Sean Illing to discuss his new book about Sam Bankman-Fried, Going Infinite: The Rise and Fall of a New Tycoon. They talk about the FTX crash, what Lewis learned while shadowing Bankman-Fried, and what SBF’s rise and fall says about us and our financial systems.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area

Guest: Michael Lewis, author, Going Infinite: The Rise and Fall of a New Tycoon

References:

Going Infinite: The Rise and Fall of a New Tycoonby Michael Lewis (W.W. Norton & Company, 2023)

The Big Short: Inside the Doomsday Machine by Michael Lewis (W.W. Norton & Company, 2010)

The Blind Side: Evolution of a Game by Michael Lewis (W.W. Norton & Company, 2007)

Moneyball: The Art of Winning An Unfair Game by Michael Lewis (W.W. Norton & Company, 2004)

Liar’s Poker by Michael Lewis (W.W. Norton & Company, 1989)

“Sam Bankman-Fried tries to explain himself” by Kelsey Piper (Vox, Nov. 2022)

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This episode was made by:

Engineer: Patrick Boyd
Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

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Is America getting meaner? Oct 02, 2023

Show notes

Sean Illing and David Brooks talk about Brooks’s recent essay, “How America Got Mean.” They discuss the country's moral history, how politics and culture have shifted our perception of connection and community, and what can be done to make things nicer.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area

Guest: David Brooks (@nytdavidbrooks), author and op-ed columnist

References:

“How America Got Mean” by David Brooks (The Atlantic, August 2023)
How to Know a Personby David Brooks (Penguin Random House, 2023)
The Road to Character by David Brooks (Penguin Random House, 2016)
The Social Animal by David Brooks (Penguin Random House, 2012)
The Upswing: How America Came Together a Century Ago and How We Can Do It Againby Robert D. Putnam(Simon & Schuster, 2021)

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This episode was made by:

Engineer: Patrick Boyd
Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

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Naomi Klein on her doppelganger (and yours) Sep 25, 2023

Show notes

Every generation thinks they’re living through the strangest times, but is our generation right? Sean Illing speaks with writer and activist Naomi Klein about her new book, Doppelganger: A Trip Into the Mirror World. They discuss how a much different Naomi — her doppelganger — scrambled her professional life and led to an unexpected plunge into the ironies and absurdities of our digital world.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area

Guest: Naomi Klein (@NaomiAKlein), author of Doppelganger and the co-director of the Centre for Climate Justice

References:

Doppelganger by Naomi Klein (Farrar, Straus and Giroux, 2023)

The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism (Picador, 2008)

No Logo: No Space, No Choice, No Jobs by Naomi Klein (Picador, 1999)

Backlash by Susan Faludi (1991)

The Age of Surveillance Capitalism: The Fight for a Human Future at the New Frontier of Power by Shoshana Zuboff (PublicAffairs, 2019)

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This episode was made by:

Engineer: Patrick Boyd
Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

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Should we press pause on AI? Sep 18, 2023

Show notes

How worried should we be about AI? Sean Illing is joined by Stuart J. Russell, a professor at the University of California Berkeley and director of the Center for Human-Compatible AI. Russell was among the signatories who wrote an open letter asking for a six-month pause on AI training. They discuss the dangers of losing control of AI and what the upsides of this rapidly developing technology could be.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area

Guest: Stuart J. Russell, professor at the University of California Berkeley and director of the Center for Human-Compatible AI

References:

Pause Giant AI Experiments: An Open Letter
“AI has much to offer humanity. It could also wreak terrible harm. It must be controlled.” by Stuart Russell (The Observer, April 2023)
Artificial Intelligence: A Modern Approach by Stuart J. Russell and Peter Norvig (Pearson Education International)
Human-Compatible: Artificial Intelligence and the Problem of Control by Stuart Russell (Penguin Random House, 2020)
“A Conversation With Bing’s Chatbot Left Me Deeply Unsettled” by Kevin Roose (New York Times, February 2023)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

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Support The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by:

Engineer: Patrick Boyd
Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

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Democracy’s existential crisis Sep 11, 2023

Show notes

Why is democracy worth saving? Sean Illing is joined by Astra Taylor, the author of the new book The Age of Insecurity: Coming Together as Things Fall Apart. They discuss the history and reality of insecurity and how we can fight for more sustainable and meaningful democratic politics.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area

Guest: Astra Taylor (@astradisastra), author, The Age of Insecurity: Coming Together as Things Fall Apart

References:

The Age of Insecurity: Coming Together as Things Fall Apart by Astra Taylor (House of Anansi Press, 2023)
“What is democracy?” by Astra Taylor
The Waste Makers by Vance Packard (Longmans, Green and Co. Ltd, 1960)
Decades of Decadence: How Our Spoiled Elites Blew America's Inheritance of Liberty, Security, and Prosperity by Marco Rubio (HarperCollins, 2023)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of The Gray Area by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by:

Engineer: Patrick Boyd
Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

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Conservative socialism? Aug 28, 2023

Show notes

What will American politics look like after Trump? Sean Illing is joined by Sohrab Ahmari to discuss his new book, Tyranny, Inc. Ahmari is one of the conservative intellectuals trying to map out a post-Trump future for the Republican Party, and his book is an attempt to justify a form of democratic socialism from the right. The two discuss whether his vision could ever be the basis for a broader coalition.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area

Guest: Sohrab Ahmari (@SohrabAhmari), author, Tyranny, Inc.

References:

Tyranny, Inc. by Sohrab Ahmari (Penguin Random House, 2023)
American Capitalism: The Concept of Countervailing Power by John Galbraith (Routledge, 1993)
Thus Spake ZarathustrabyFriedrich Nietzsche
“Social Democracy and Social Conservatism Aren’t Compatible” by Matt McManus (Jacobin, August 2023)

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This episode was made by:

Engineer: Erica Huang
Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

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The benefits of utopian thinking Aug 21, 2023

Show notes

Why don’t we spend more time imagining a better future? Sean Illing is joined by Kristen R. Ghodsee, the author of Everyday Utopia: What 2,000 Years of Wild Experiments Can Teach Us About the Good Life. They discuss why it’s hard to imagine better outcomes in life, what we can learn from experimental living communities, and what the pandemic proved about our adaptability.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area

Guest: Kristen R. Ghodsee, author, Everyday Utopia: What 2,000 Years of Wild Experiments Can Teach Us About the Good Life

References:

Everyday Utopia: What 2,000 Years of Wild Experiments Can Teach Us About the Good Lifeby Kristen R. Ghodsee (Simon & Schuster, 2023)

Why Women Have Better Sex Under Socialism: And Other Arguments for Economic Independence by Kristen R. Ghodsee (Hachette, 2018)

Life of Pythagoras, or Pythagoric Life, by (Chalcidensis) Iamblichus

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This episode was made by: