The Gray Area with Sean Illing

Latest Episodes:

The American dream is a pyramid scheme Apr 01, 2024

Show notes

Jane Marie is an expert in American bullshit. Her podcast The Dream explores life coaching, wellness, marketing, and other fraudulent industries and exposes their exploitative practices. Her book, Selling the Dream, takes an even closer look at multilevel marketing schemes like Amway and Herbalife and gives historical context to this multibillion-dollar — and distinctly American — enterprise.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area

Guest: Jane Marie. Her podcast is The Dream and her book is Selling the Dream.

Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Be the first to hear new episodes of The Gray Area by following us in your favorite podcast app. Links here: https://www.vox.com/the-gray-area

Support The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by:

Producer: Jon Ehrens
Engineer: Patrick Boyd

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The chaplain who doesn't believe in God Mar 25, 2024

Show notes

As a non-believer, Devin Moss never thought he would become a chaplain or a spiritual adviser, much less one who counsels hospital patients with terminal illnesses and inmates on death row. Devin joins Sean to talk about his improbable journey, the death penalty, and the role of religion in an increasingly secular society.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area

Guest: Devin Moss. His podcast is The Adventures of Memento Mori.

Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Be the first to hear new episodes of The Gray Area by following us in your favorite podcast app. Links here: https://www.vox.com/the-gray-area

Support The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by:

Producer: Jon Ehrens
Engineer: Patrick Boyd

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Can a friend be our most significant other? Mar 18, 2024

Show notes

Journalist Rhaina Cohen believes that modern culture undervalues friendships and discusses the ways in which deep friendships are distinct from but no less meaningful than romantic partnerships.

Guest host: Sigal Samuel (@sigalsamuel)

Guest: Rhaina Cohen (@rhainacohen). Her book is The Other Significant Others.

Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Be the first to hear new episodes of The Gray Area by following us in your favorite podcast app. Links here: https://www.vox.com/the-gray-area

Support The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by:

Producer: Jon Ehrens
Engineer: Patrick Boyd

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The power of climate fiction Mar 11, 2024

Show notes

Stephen Markley’s novel, “The Deluge,” is an ambitious and terrifyingly realistic look at our collective future on a warming planet. He joins Sean to talk about the 10-year process of writing the book, the current political struggle over climate action, and how we can confront and mitigate the worst effects of climate change.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area

Guest: Stephen Markley. His book is “The Deluge.”

Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Be the first to hear new episodes of The Gray Area by following us in your favorite podcast app. Links here: https://www.vox.com/the-gray-area

Support The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by:

Producer: Jon Ehrens
Engineer: Patrick Boyd

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The denial of death Mar 04, 2024

Show notes

It’s been 50 years since Ernest Becker’s breakthrough book The Denial of Death was first published, and its thesis has become more relevant than ever. Filmmaker Jef Sewell is the co-creator of a new documentary about Becker called All Illusions Must Be Broken. It features never-before-heard audio of the enigmatic anthropologist and puts his theories in a modern context.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area

Guest: Jef Sewell. Find out more about the film at www.twobirdsfilm.com

Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Be the first to hear new episodes of The Gray Area by following us in your favorite podcast app. Links here: https://www.vox.com/the-gray-area

Support The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by:

Producer: Jon Ehrens
Engineer: Patrick Boyd

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

A brief history of extinction panics Feb 26, 2024

Show notes

Silicon Valley is in the middle of an AI frenzy, and many of its leaders believe this technology could eventually result in human extinction. Tyler Austin Harper breaks down the most outlandish predictions, some of the more plausible problems AI poses, and how this moment reminds him of earlier extinction panics.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area

Guest: Tyler Austin Harper (@Tyler_A_Harper). Read his piece in the New York Times here.

Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Be the first to hear new episodes of The Gray Area by following us in your favorite podcast app. Links here: https://www.vox.com/the-gray-area

Support The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by:

Producer: Jon Ehrens
Engineer: Patrick Boyd

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The new(ish) world order Feb 19, 2024

Show notes

America solidified its dominant posture in the international order following World War II and largely held that position for the following half-century. But as problems have accumulated at home and abroad, Americans are reconsidering their country’s role in the world, and so are its leaders. Alex Ward, author of The Internationalists: The Fight to Restore American Foreign Policy After Trump, joins us.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area

Guest: Alex Ward (@alexbward). His book is The Internationalists: The Fight to Restore American Foreign Policy After Trump.

Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Be the first to hear new episodes of The Gray Area by following us in your favorite podcast app. Links here: https://www.vox.com/the-gray-area

Support The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by:

Producer: Jon Ehrens
Engineer: Patrick Boyd

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The free-market century is over Feb 12, 2024

Show notes

Sean Illing talks with economic historian Brad DeLong about his new book Slouching Towards Utopia. In it, DeLong claims that the "long twentieth century" was the most consequential period in human history, during which the institutions of rapid technological growth and globalization were created, setting humanity on a path towards improving life, defeating scarcity, and enabling real freedom. But... this ran into some problems. Sean and Brad talk about the power of markets, how the New Deal led to something approaching real social democracy, and why the Great Recession of 2008 and its aftermath signified the end of this momentous era.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area

Guest: J. Bradford DeLong (@delong), author; professor of economics, U.C. Berkeley

References:

Slouching Towards Utopia: An Economic History of the Twentieth Century by J. Bradford DeLong (Basic; 2022)
The Road to Serfdom by Friedrich von Hayek (1944)
The Great Transformationby Karl Polanyi (1944)
Capitalism, Socialism and Democracyby Joseph Schumpeter (1942)
"A Short History of Enclosure in Britain" by Simon Fairlie (This Land Magazine; 2009)
"China's Great Leap Forward" by Clayton D. Brown (Association for Asian Studies; 2012)
What Is Property? by Pierre-Joseph Proudhon (1840)
The Rise and Fall of the Neoliberal Order by Gary Gerstle (Oxford University Press; 2022)
Apple's "1984" ad (YouTube)
The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money by John Maynard Keynes (1936)
"The spectacular ongoing implosion of crypto's biggest star, explained" by Emily Stewart (Vox; Nov. 18)
"Did Greenspan Add to Subprime Woes? Gramlich Says Ex-Colleague Blocked Crackdown" by Greg Ip (Wall Street Journal; June 9, 2007)
"Families across the country are tightening their belts and making tough decisions. The federal government should do the same," from President Obama's 2010 State of the Union Address (Jan. 27, 2010)
"The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte" by Karl Marx (1852)
Why We're Polarized by Ezra Klein (Simon & Schuster; 2020)
The Paradox of Democracy: Free Speech, Open Media, and Perilous Persuasionby Zac Gershberg and Sean Illing (U. Chicago; 2022)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of The Gray Area. Subscribe in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by:

Producer: Erikk Geannikis
Editor: Amy Drozdowska
Engineer: Patrick Boyd
Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Music and mysticism Feb 05, 2024

Show notes

Musician Laraaji joins Sean to talk about improvisation as meditation, the transcendent nature of laughter, and lessons from a long life in sound and spirit.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area

Guest: Laraaji. His music can be found at https://laraajimusic.bandcamp.com/

Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Be the first to hear new episodes of The Gray Area by following us in your favorite podcast app. Links here: https://www.vox.com/the-gray-area

Support The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by:

Producer: Jon Ehrens
Engineer: Patrick Boyd

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The case for banning...millionaires? Jan 29, 2024

Show notes

Political philosopher Ingrid Robeyns believes that there should be a maximum amount of money and resources that one person can have. She tells Sean how much is too much and why limiting personal wealth benefits everyone, including the super rich.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area

Guest: Ingrid Robeyns. Her book is Limitarianism: The Case Against Extreme Wealth.

Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Be the first to hear new episodes of The Gray Area by following us in your favorite podcast app. Links here: https://www.vox.com/the-gray-area

Support The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: