News

The Argument

Has affirmative action gone too far? Should we abolish internet anonymity? Is liberal hypocrisy worth defending?

Welcome to The Argument, a weekly podcast from Jerusalem Demsas and Matthew Yglesias, where two friends argue about politics, policy, and whatever else is on their minds.

This is a debate show for people who want the nitty-gritty without the typical screaming matches or softball interviews. Each week, one host argues a distinctive point of view — armed with facts and research, not just pundit bluster — and then Matthew and Jerusalem hash it out.

New episodes post every Thursday.

You can find The Argument on Substack, YouTube, and wherever you get your podcasts.

www.theargumentmag.com

Latest Episodes:

Andrew Tate, Dan Bilzerian, and the death of romance Jun 18, 2026

Show notes

Is online dating advice actually making it harder to find love?

This week, Jerusalem Demsas and Matthew Yglesias wade into the world of online dating advice, from the manosphere influencers coaching men to treat women as opponents to the female-coded content teaching women to read every date as a minefield. Jerusalem and Matt find themselves split on what it's actually doing to us. Is this tactical advice a useful nudge for people who'd otherwise never take a risk, or a trap of stereotypes that flattens individuals and increases neuroticism? And in a world where the old tracks to marriage have disappeared, what's left to help people actually connect?

Plus: research on the economics of fracking and what the shale revolution did for the Obama era.

(00:00) The problem with modern dating advice
(06:27) Judging Andrew Tate and Dan Bilzerian
(10:16) Psychological dating games and the Neil Strauss era
(18:53) Female-coded dating advice
(30:10) Risk vs. reward in dating
(36:47) Gender stereotypes in modern romance
(46:52) What's the point of a relationship?
(51:07) Peer Review: The economics of frackin

Peer review: “How Much Has Shale Gas Saved U.S. Consumers?" paper by Lucas W. Davis calculating how much natural gas customers have saved annually, between 2007 and 2025, as a result of the fracking boom: https://www.nber.org/papers/w35245

Support the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.com

New episodes every Thursday—subscribe so you never miss a debate!

The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley.

How environmentalists lost the plot Jun 11, 2026

Show notes

Is modern environmentalism anti-progress?

This week, Jerusalem Demsas and Matthew Yglesias read Rachel Carson's Silent Spring – the book that launched the modern environmental movement. Jerusalem and Matt find themselves surprised by what's actually in it. Is it a visionary scientific critique or a romantic backlash against modernity? And did Carson's legacy help or hurt the cause she championed?

Plus: new research on whether leaving the workforce accelerates cognitive decline and what that means for an AI-driven future.

(0:00) Why Silent Spring Still Matters Today
(10:13) The Myth of the "Natural Balance"
(15:12) The genius of the screwworm program
(20:10) Rachel Carson vs. Big Chemical Industry
(29:13) Environmentalism and Global Economic Growth
(40:15) Ecomodernism: Can Science Save Nature?
(49:31) The Rise of the "Vetocracy" in Policy
(59:43) Peer review: Does Working Keep Your Brain Sharp?

Peer review: "Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks" — Kouchekinia, Neumark & Bruckner (NBER): https://www.nber.org/papers/w35117

Support the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.com

New episodes every Thursday—subscribe so you never miss a debate!

The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley.

Do we need to build God to cure cancer? Jun 04, 2026

Show notes

AI companies keep promising it will cure cancer. But what does that actually mean — and would an AI capable of doing it be one we'd want to live alongside? Jerusalem Demsas and Kelsey Piper debated the question live in San Francisco, in front of a crowd of researchers, investors, and skeptics who had plenty to say about it. One of them is going to be very wrong. Listen and judge for yourself.

(0:00) Is the AI trade-off worth it?
(3:54) Are small wins good enough?
(10:27) What would it mean for AI to cure cancer?
(15:22) AlphaFold: Speeding up the chemistry of life
(16:40) Did ChatGPT cure a dog's cancer?
(31:10) Anthropic and the "Build God" strategy
(34:38) Audience Q&A
(43:50) Jerusalem and Kelsey respond

Support the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.com

New episodes every Thursday—subscribe so you never miss a debate!

The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley.

Why is crime falling everywhere? May 28, 2026

Show notes

America is on track for its lowest homicide year since 1900, but nobody seems to be celebrating. Matt Yglesias and Jerusalem Demsas debate why crime has dropped so dramatically and what caused the pandemic-era highs in the first place. Were the George Floyd and BLM protests to blame for the increase in crime? Were cops holding back because they felt disrespected? Or was it pandemic-era disruptions that caused the chaos?

Together, they explore what it means for democratic accountability when officers can retreat from their duties, why police union reform remains the third rail of criminal justice policy, and why crime is falling across the country regardless of conservative or progressive leadership.

(0:00) The shocking 2025 crime drop
(5:24) Criminal justice reform & the "Ferguson effect"
(10:02) The George Floyd protests as an authentic democratic reaction
(13:04) Debating the root causes of crime during COVID-19
(23:49) The dire need for police union reform
(29:52) Why nobody wants to be a police officer anymore
(34:26) How much power do progressives actually have?
(42:51) Peer review: Do violent movies prevent crime?

Support the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.com

New episodes every Thursday—subscribe so you never miss a debate!

The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley.

Why Democrats and Republicans want you to pay $50,000 for a car May 21, 2026

Show notes

This week on The Argument, Jerusalem Demsas and Matthew Yglesias debate the tariffs on Chinese electric vehicles. Jerusalem argues that Americans should have access to cheaper, climate-friendly cars, while Matt says industrial policy requires a more cautious approach.

They dive into the failure of Trump’s tariffs, what serious industrial policy looks like, and how the climate activists are once again missing the mark.

(0:00) The BYD car that can jump over potholes
(4:07) Climate activists miss the mark
(11:46) Setting the stage for war with China
(20:13) Protecting nonunion electric vehicles
(27:50) Let Jerusalem buy a cheap Chinese EV
(35:13) Matt Yglesias’s trade solutions
(41:20) Comparing today to 1980s Japan auto policy
(46:10) Peer review: The effects of school phone bans

Support the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.com

New episodes every Thursday—subscribe so you never miss a debate!

The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley.

Did Joe Biden really kill Spirit Airlines? May 14, 2026

Show notes

Spirit Airlines is dead and the right, true to form, is blaming Joe Biden.

The immediate cause of Spirit's demise is pretty clear: the war with Iran spiked jet fuel costs, and the already-battered airline couldn't absorb the hit to its bottom line. Last we checked, Joe Biden didn't start any wars with Iran.

In this episode, Matthew Yglesias and Jerusalem Demsas break down what really happened with Spirit Airlines, the weird history of aviation policy in the U.S., and the conspiracy by some progressives to reduce competition in the space.

(0:00) Spirit Airlines is dead
(7:07) The blocked JetBlue merger
(14:54) 1960s airline nostalgia
(21:12) Matt’s tinfoil hat theory
(26:29) Pre-Carter airline monopolies
(35:26) The dawn of deregulation
(47:17) Anti-monopolists want less competition
(54:19) America’s protectionist policies
(58:22) Peer review: Marriage and gender-coded purchases

Support the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.com

New episodes every Thursday—subscribe so you never miss a debate!

The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley.

Boy moms and Nazi POWs: how "The Feminine Mystique" changed feminism May 07, 2026

Show notes

Betty Friedan thought Korean POWs were dying in captivity because their mothers were housewives. She thought boy moms were making their sons gay. She wrote a whole chapter comparing suburban kitchens to concentration camps — in 1963, while America was still processing what concentration camps actually were.

"The Feminine Mystique" is one of those important books that everyone "knows" but no one has actually read.

For today's episode of The Argument podcast, Matthew Yglesias and Jerusalem Demsas read and review the book that kicked off second-wave feminism.

0:00-Introduction to The Feminine Mystique
9:02-Psychotherapy, Mad Men, and Marxist origins
20:02-The true drivers of social change
30:52-Famous books with massive effects
35:07-The most insane parts of The Feminine Mystique
47:33-The female happiness paradox
51:34-Rating the book’s success
56:54-Peer Review: Health benefits of WW2 sugar rationing?

New episodes post every Thursday.

For an ad-free version, show notes, and full transcript, subscribe at TheArgumentMag.com.

Support the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.com

New episodes every Thursday—subscribe so you never miss a debate!

The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley.

Should we end asylum? Apr 30, 2026

Show notes

Matthew Yglesias wants to end asylum.

On a new episode of The Argument, Matt argues that the post-WWII asylum framework is not just politically untenable but practically unworkable.

Jerusalem Demsas, true to form, disagrees.

New episodes post every Thursday.

For an ad-free version, show notes, and full transcript, subscribe at TheArgumentMag.com.

Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Overcast | Pocket Casts

Support the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.com

New episodes every Thursday—subscribe so you never miss a debate!

The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley.

Can America still be a force for good? Apr 23, 2026

Show notes

For the past century, America's foreign interventions often carried the pretense of liberal idealism – to help bring peace and prosperity to people around the world.

But it doesn't take a history scholar to know that positive outcomes weren't always the result.

In the latest episode of the Argument, Jerusalem Demsas and Matthew Yglesias debate the merits of liberal hypocrisy, its benefits and drawbacks, and whether it's worth bringing it back.

New episodes post every Thursday.

For an ad-free version and full transcript, subscribe at TheArgumentMag.com

Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Overcast | Pocket Casts

Support the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.com

New episodes every Thursday—subscribe so you never miss a debate!

The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley.

Destroy the internet to save it? Apr 16, 2026

Show notes

People tend to defend online anonymity by pointing to the long tradition of anonymous speech in American democracy.

But modern anonymity is an entirely new beast.

Should we ban anonymity on the internet? That's what The Argument's Jerusalem Demsas and Slow Boring's Matthew Yglesias debate in The Argument's latest episode.

New episodes post every Thursday.

You can find The Argument on Substack, YouTube, and wherever you get your podcasts.

Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | YouTube | Overcast | Pocket Casts

Visit TheArgumentMag.com for show notes.

(Illustration by The Argument, image by Jorge Quijite)

Support the Show: Get a full transcript, show notes, and an ad-free version: TheArgumentMag.com

New episodes every Thursday—subscribe so you never miss a debate!

The Argument is produced by Justin Zuckerman, fact-checked by Eli Richman, with music by Breakmaster Cylinder and art by Ben Tousley.