Talkin‘ Politics & Religion Without Killin‘ Each Other

Latest Episodes:

Beyond Outrage and Misperceptions: Building the Muscles for Democracy (with More In Common's Kate Carney) May 06, 2025

Show notes

In this episode, Corey Nathan sits down with Kate Carney, Deputy Director at More in Common. Kate shares her fascinating journey—from working in Congress to boating 6,000 miles around the U.S.—and how those experiences shape her work today. The conversation centers on More in Common’s new report, The Connection Opportunity, and explores how we can foster meaningful relationships across political, racial, religious, and socioeconomic divides.

What's Discussed:

Why social connection is critical to healthy democracy.
Surprising data on Americans’ openness to diverse perspectives.
How psychological factors like intergroup anxiety impact connection.
Kate’s transformative journey completing the Great American Loop.
Real-world solutions for bridging divides in your own community.

Episode Highlights:

02:00 – Kate’s 6,000-mile boat journey and what it taught her about America.
10:00 – The Connection Opportunity: How More in Common is reframing social cohesion.
21:00 – Why politics remains the most difficult line of difference to cross.
25:00 – The power of community norms and intergroup anxiety.
32:00 – Revisiting the "Hidden Tribes" report and what’s changed since its release.
41:00 – The seven levers of change for increasing social connection.
48:00 – How cities like Kansas City, Houston and Pittsburgh are fostering community dialogue.
54:00 – Personal agency and why democracy starts with you.

Featured Quotes:
“We are inherently diverse. To build strong communities, we have to be intentional about connecting across our differences.” — Kate Carney
“The more people connect across difference, the more they want to—it’s a cascade.” — Kate Carney
“There’s an overwhelming desire to have these conversations. It’s the fortress of assumptions that gets in our way.” — Corey Nathan

Resources Mentioned:

More in Common: www.moreincommonus.com
The Connection Opportunity Report: moreincommonus.com/publication/the-connection-opportunity

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Trump's Attack on Decency and Your Constitutional Rights: Why It's NOT Normal May 02, 2025

Show notes

In this episode, host Corey Nathan reflects on where we stand as a country several months into the current administration. With candor and conviction, Corey explores the themes of democracy, decency, and due process. Drawing from scripture, the Constitution, and commentary by thought leaders like David Brooks and Mike Madrid, this episode delivers a compelling, timely snapshot of America’s civic health—and what’s at stake moving forward.

What's Discussed:

Why the First, Fifth, and Fourteenth Amendments are more important than ever
The consequences of immigration policies that bypass due process
How the economy (including tariffs and inflation) is impacting voters
What swayed key constituencies in the 2024 election
What to watch for heading into 2026 and 2028

Episode Highlights:

[00:02:00] Framing the episode: A “temperature check” on America
[00:05:00] The First Amendment under threat
[00:07:00] Due process and the constitutional rights of all persons
[00:14:00] What really moved voters in 2024 (spoiler: price of eggs + immigration)
[00:17:00] A powerful quote from David Brooks on civilizational foundations
[00:22:00] Legal attacks and a defense of constitutional law
[00:29:00] Polling data showing shifts in public opinion
[00:34:00] Real-world impact on families, students, and small businesses

Featured Quotes:

“Nor shall any person be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law.”
“Don’t talk to me about Donald Trump being a brilliant businessman—he’s a brilliant thief.”
“For me, it’s about democracy and decency. Always has been.”

Resources Mentioned:

David Brooks: "What’s Happening Is Not Normal" (NYT) – www.nytimes.com/2025/04/17/opinion/trump-harvard-law-firms.html
Adam Unikowsky on Substack – adamunikowsky.substack.com/p/the-case-for-suing
Mike Madrid's Substack, The Great Transformation – substack.com/@madridmike

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E.J. Dionne: "Come, Let Us Reason Together" | Resisting Extremism and the Path to National Healing Apr 29, 2025

Show notes

In this episode, host Corey Nathan talks with renowned journalist, scholar, and public intellectual E.J. Dionne Jr. E.J. is a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, a syndicated columnist for The Washington Post, a professor at Georgetown University, and a prolific author. Together, they discuss democracy, faith, political polarization, and the enduring need for real argument and hope in public life.

What We Discuss:

How E.J.’s upbringing shaped his approach to political debate and dialogue.
Why engaging seriously with opposing ideas is crucial to democracy.
The difference between optimism and hope — and why hope is essential.
How faith and civil society contribute to repairing societal divisions.

Episode Highlights:

[00:03:00] E.J. shares how his father encouraged open political debate.
[00:06:00] Reflections on DEI, the “woke” debates, and critiques of excesses.
[00:10:00] The Trump administration’s unintended role in uniting pro-democracy groups.
[00:15:00] Anger and economic grievances in Fall River, Massachusetts.
[00:24:00] Why hope, not just optimism, is vital for public life.
[00:36:00] E.J.’s personal faith journey and the importance of humble belief.
[00:48:00] Reflections on Pope Francis’ legacy and the Catholic Church.
[01:05:00] What worries E.J. about democracy today — and what gives him hope.

Featured Quotes:
"In real argument, you enter imaginatively into the ideas your opponent holds." — E.J. Dionne
"Hope is the virtue on which faith and love depend." — E.J. Dionne
"You can really disagree with people you love, and you can love people you disagree with." — E.J. Dionne
"We find sanctity even in mundane conversations." — Corey Nathan

Resources Mentioned:

📘 Souled Out: Reclaiming Faith and Politics after the Religious Right - Princeton University Press

📰 E.J. Dionne's column at The Washington Post – www.washingtonpost.com/people/ej-dionne-jr

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The Unflinching Eye: McKay Coppins on Journalism, the Threats to Our Freedoms and the Power of Inquiry Apr 25, 2025

Show notes

🎙️Award-winning journalist and Atlantic staff writer McKay Coppins joins us to explore the delicate intersections of politics, faith, and journalism. From shadowing Donald Trump to chronicling the political journey of Mitt Romney, McKay shares what it takes to pursue truth in turbulent times.

What We Discuss:

What it’s like getting rare access to Trump, Romney, and the Murdochs
How to navigate political rationalizations without losing your soul
McKay’s writing rituals and creative process
The powerful role of curiosity in building bridges across divides
Why faith and civic life matter more than ever

Episode Highlights:

00:02:00 – McKay’s infamous 2014 Trump profile and its surprising legacy
00:10:00 – How luck and sincere curiosity lead to exclusive access
00:16:00 – Late nights, caps lock, and McKay’s writing habits
00:29:00 – The chilling effect of political intimidation on journalism
00:41:00 – Why many GOP leaders stay silent—and what Romney heard behind the scenes
00:50:00 – Do you lose your soul in politics? A deep dive
00:57:00 – The spiritual vacuum in modern America and how faith might fill it
01:02:00 – Why curiosity is the cure for today’s civic divide

Featured Quotes:

"He seemed like he desperately wanted affirmation all the time... and it was like empty calories."
"To be somebody who has faith is to constantly have it tested and to have it evolve."
"We need leaders thinking more about their obituaries than the next news cycle."
"Curiosity is an underrated virtue in politics."

Resources Mentioned:

📘 Romney: A Reckoning – Simon and Schuster
📘 The Wilderness – Hachette Book Group
📰 McKay’s articles at The Atlantic – Visit

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I Was Right About the Law, But My Delivery Was WRONG: How to Discuss Threats to Our Rights Without Being a Jerk Apr 22, 2025

Show notes

In this episode, host Corey Nathan shares a candid reflection about a recent encounter where he was right on the facts and the law—but completely wrong in how he presented them. Yet if we're honest with ourselves about when we make mistakes, it's a good opportunity to learn, reminding us that how we communicate is just as important as what we communicate.

What You’ll Learn:

Why being right on the law isn’t enough in a conversation
How righteous anger can derail productive dialogue
Why due process matters for everyone—especially those who aren't guilty of crimes
Tools for engaging in hard conversations with empathy and curiosity
How the Constitution and Judeo-Christian values intersect in public discourse

Episode Highlights:

[00:02:00] Corey introduces the story and the key lesson he learned
[00:05:00] Breakdown of the Alien Enemies Act and a real legal case
[00:06:45] A stranger challenges Corey at a restaurant
[00:07:30] Corey "goes Jersey" and loses his cool
[00:13:00] What due process really protects and why it matters
[00:16:00] How Isaac Saul, David Brooks, and Mónica Guzmán inspired a better way to respond
[00:18:00] Reading the First and Fifth Amendments to ground the conversation

Featured Quotes:

"I was completely right on the facts, but I was completely wrong on the delivery." — Corey Nathan
"Due process is there for the innocent just as much as the guilty—even more so for the innocent." — Corey Nathan
"Ask at least three questions before making your point." — inspired by Isaac Saul

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Untangling the Partisan Knot: A Balanced Look at Political News with Isaac Saul of Tangle Apr 18, 2025

Show notes

In this episode, we sit down with Isaac Saul, founder of Tangle, a widely respected, nonpartisan political newsletter. Isaac and his team bring a fresh approach to political journalism by curating multiple perspectives—right, left, and independent—on major stories of the day. Corey, a fan and avid reader of Tangle, dives deep into Isaac’s upbringing in Bucks County, PA, how that shaped his civic “multilingualism,” and the genesis of Tangle during a particularly difficult phase of his career. Together, they explore the challenges of journalistic ethics, political polarization, media bias, and the future of trustworthy news.

What We Discuss:

Why Bucks County, PA, is so friggin' awesome! And why it plays a crucial role in shaping moderate political thinkers.
How Isaac Saul built Tangle from the ground up as a response to media frustration.
The journalistic principles and ethical guardrails that guide Isaac’s work.
How to discern quality journalism in an era dominated by clickbait and misinformation.
The dangers of polarization and what gives Isaac hope about our democratic future.

Episode Highlights:

[00:01:00] Isaac Saul shares the mission behind Tangle and what inspired him to create it.
[00:05:00] Corey and Isaac explore how growing up in politically diverse Bucks County cultivated empathy and civic fluency.
[00:10:00] Isaac discusses his unique way of reaching conspiracy-minded friends—by “using their language” and exposing financial incentives in media.
[00:15:00] Isaac describes his journalistic background and the importance of reporting with integrity and skepticism.
[00:24:00] Isaac recounts his “f*** this” moment that led to launching Tangle after being rejected from multiple major outlets.
[00:34:00] Corey explains his methodical approach to reading Tangle and how it helps refine his own viewpoints.
[00:40:00] Behind the scenes: How Isaac and his team choose stories and fairly represent both sides of complex political issues.
[00:54:00] Isaac shares his hopes and fears about political division, executive overreach, and the role of media in democracy.

Featured Quotes:

"The people who are really politically engaged on the right and the left right now are living in just different realities." – Isaac Saul
"I know what I think. It’s the least interesting thing on the planet. I live with this brain all day. I want to hear what others think." – Isaac Saul
"You should treat every click like you're handing a news outlet a dollar." – Isaac Saul
"Centrism is an ideology in and of itself. I’m not trying to land in the middle—I’m just being honest about my real reactions." – Isaac Saul

Resources Mentioned:

Tangle Newsletter – www.readtangle.com
Isaac Saul’s TED Talk: “What Media Doesn’t Tell You” – youtu.be/543mYKKh1EE?si=CjdQv94HzT04vknh
How Media Bias Works (Tangle article) – www.readtangle.com/why-the-media-is-broken/
Isaac on Twitter: x.com/Ike_Saul

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(ICYMI) Beyond Right and Left: Rabbi Sharon Brous and the Courage to Ask 'What Do You See?' After October 7th Apr 15, 2025

Show notes

In this deeply moving episode, Corey Nathan welcomes Rabbi Sharon Brous, the senior and founding rabbi of IKAR, a groundbreaking Jewish community based in Los Angeles. Rabbi Brous is also the author of The Amen Effect: Ancient Wisdom to Heal Our Hearts and Mend Our Broken World. Together, they explore ancient traditions, mental health, spiritual leadership, and how to foster deeper, more compassionate human connections even across profound divides.

What We Discuss:

The ancient ritual of turning toward the brokenhearted and its modern relevance.
The profound impact of being seen and embraced in moments of vulnerability.
How leaders carry and process communal pain—and why that matters.
Practical wisdom on staying curious and compassionate across ideological divides.
The role of community design in spiritual experiences.

Episode Highlights:

[00:01:00] Rabbi Brous explains the Mishnah Middot and the ritual of turning toward the brokenhearted.
[00:08:00] Corey and Rabbi Brous discuss the concept of sin as a burden like mental illness.
[00:15:00] The transformative power of being truly seen and how crying makes space for new realities.
[00:20:00] Rabbi Brous reflects on the toll leadership can take and how caregivers must process pain.
[00:24:00] The design of IKAR’s prayer space and how it fosters visibility and community.
[00:34:00] Navigating discomfort with changes in religious leadership and traditions.
[00:42:00] How to stay at the table with those who hurt or anger us—and why it’s critical.
[00:53:00] A powerful story about transformation through simple presence and blessing.

Featured Quotes:

"Sometimes you don’t even want to get out of bed. Yet, sacred tradition compels us to show our brokenness—and trust that we will be held with love." — Rabbi Sharon Brous
"If you don’t metabolize pain, it will metastasize inside of you." — Rabbi Sharon Brous
"We can create new neural and spiritual pathways—by allowing ourselves to be seen and to receive love." — Rabbi Sharon Brous
"It takes courage to be curious about someone who hurt you, but that’s the only way to heal." — Rabbi Sharon Brous

Resources Mentioned:

The Amen Effect by Rabbi Sharon Brous: https://ikar.org/the-amen-effect/the-big-idea/
IKAR Jewish Community: https://www.ikar.org/
How to Know a Person by David Brooks: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/652822/how-to-know-a-person-by-david-brooks/
Fierce Love by Rev. Dr. Jacqui Lewis: https://jacquijlewis.com/fierce-love/
I Never Thought of It That Way by Mónica Guzmán: https://www.moniguzman.com/book

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From Bible School to 'Trump Grumpies': Gen Z Asks, What Would Jesus Really Do? with Emerson Riley Nathan Apr 11, 2025

Show notes

In this heartfelt and wide-ranging episode, host Corey Nathan sits down with a very special guest — his own son, Emerson Riley Nathan. Together, they dive into Gen Z’s unique perspective on faith, politics, and culture. As a young adult navigating the complexities of belief, identity, and creativity, Emerson offers refreshing candor about his spiritual journey, social views, and passion for music. This conversation is an inspiring look at how different generations can engage in meaningful, respectful dialogue.

What You Will Learn:

Insights into Gen Z's evolving relationship with faith and spirituality
How Emerson balances skepticism and open-mindedness about religion
The impact of politics and social media on young people's worldview
How music and community-building are vital for mental health and connection
The dynamic of a father and son having open, vulnerable discussions about big life questions

Episode Highlights:

[00:01:00] – Emerson's "graveyard shift" lifestyle and its impact on his creativity
[00:03:00] – Emerson shares his journey growing up between Christianity and Judaism
[00:07:00] – How the 2012 election and political polarization shaped Emerson’s views
[00:11:00] – Moving away from organized religion and questioning traditional beliefs
[00:20:00] – Emerson's current agnostic beliefs and embracing uncertainty about the afterlife
[00:27:00] – The healing power of kindness and defining what it means to be good
[00:32:00] – Emerson’s passion for dubstep, rave culture, and community through music
[00:45:00] – Corey and Emerson discuss responsible adulthood, fatherhood, and finding purpose
[00:59:00] – How politics today have created both division and a sense of helplessness

Resources Mentioned:

📣 Call to Action:

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Will Saletan: Navigating Toxic Partisanship and Challenging Extremist Absurdity Apr 08, 2025

Show notes

In this episode, we welcome back political journalist and author Will Saletan. Will, formerly of Slate and now a writer for The Bulwark, is known for his sharp insights on American democracy, political corruption, and authoritarianism. Will reflects on the pivotal events leading up to and following the 2024 election, including Joe Biden’s withdrawal, Kamala Harris’s campaign, and Donald Trump's return to power. This thought-provoking conversation dives into the state of democracy, the rise of authoritarianism, and how ordinary Americans are responding.

What You Will Learn

How Will Saletan processed the chaotic political landscape leading up to the 2024 election.
Why many Americans seem indifferent to threats against constitutional rights.
Will’s analysis of Trump’s authoritarian tendencies and the implications for democracy.
The emerging role of European allies as America’s commitment to NATO and democracy weakens.
Practical strategies for handling misinformation and toxic discourse on social media.

Episode Highlights

[00:01:00] Introduction to Will Saletan and a reflection on major events since their last conversation.
[00:03:00] Will discusses his surprise at Biden’s physical and verbal deterioration during the 2024 campaign.
[00:07:00] The challenges Kamala Harris faced stepping into the race and why the "change election" dynamic mattered.
[00:11:00] Corey and Will examine why many Americans rationalized or minimized January 6th.
[00:23:00] Will explains how fear and profit motive lead companies and law firms to capitulate to authoritarian pressures.
[00:29:00] How self-censorship and fear of government retribution are stifling free speech.
[00:54:00] Will shares the "general idea" he’s concluded about the Trump administration: incompetence and stupidity at historic levels.
[01:03:00] Hope on the horizon: how European nations are stepping up to defend democratic values.
[01:06:00] Final reflections on the resilience of democracy beyond America’s current political struggles.

Featured Quotes

Will Saletan: "What clicks for me is very simple: they’re idiots. They're really stupid, and they think they're smart."
Will Saletan: "The danger isn’t just the lies themselves—it's the machinery of intimidation that stops people from even trying to tell the truth."
Corey Nathan: "It's encouraging when you realize people are so much more than the hat they might wear."
Will Saletan: "Even though America has faltered, there’s still goodness in the world—and it’s stepping up."

Resources Mentioned

Will Saletan at The Bulwark
Will's book: The Corruption of Lindsey Graham: A Case Study in The Rise of Authoritarianism
Will on Bluesky - @saletan.bsky.social

(Note: If Will referenced any other external resources or books you want linked specifically, just let me know!)

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Dumb Ideas Welcome? Navigating Free Speech and Falsehoods in a Divided Democracy Apr 05, 2025

Show notes

In this solo episode, host Corey Nathan takes a deep dive into one of the foundational guidelines we've used in curating conversations both in person and online: handling misinformation. Corey reflects on his experiences moderating political and religious discussions, the evolution of social media moderation, and the fine balance between protecting free speech and maintaining civil discourse. We invite listeners into an honest exploration of free expression, civic engagement, and fostering better conversations, even with those we deeply disagree with.

What We Discuss:

Why it could be worth rethinking the rule to report and remove proven falsehoods from these forums.
The importance of understanding the First Amendment and time, place, and manner restrictions on free speech.
How maintaining civil discourse matters more than ever, even with the spread of misinformation.
Reflections on the lessons learned from controversial public conversations, like Gavin Newsom’s podcast guests and protests on college campuses.
How personal experiences during the pandemic and political unrest shaped Corey's approach to moderating tough conversations.

Episode Highlights:

[00:03:00] Corey’s initial set of rules for moderating conversations on social media.
[00:08:00] Why platforms like Meta and Twitter are no longer actively flagging misinformation.
[00:10:00] Revisiting the meaning of the First Amendment and its application to private forums.
[00:18:00] Discussing time, place, and manner restrictions in the context of campus protests and public demonstrations.
[00:23:00] Reflecting on the events of January 6th and the perpetuation of election fraud narratives.
[00:36:00] Learning from Gavin Newsom’s engagement with controversial figures like Steve Bannon and Charlie Kirk.
[00:43:00] Why civil engagement—even with those we strongly disagree with—might be more powerful than silencing falsehoods.
[00:52:00] Corey’s updated stance: allowing proven falsehoods to remain visible for educational and relational purposes.