Some Work, All Play - David Roche and Megan Roche

Latest Episodes:

182. Wild Science on Post-Exercise Ketones, New Running Tech, Bone Density, and Protein Sources! Nov 28, 2023

Show notes

We turned the hype meters to 11 for this awesome episode! The main training topic was on the wild, uncertain science of post-exercise ketone supplementation. We take you into the cutting-edge of this emerging field of research, like a Magic Schoolbus for the scientific method. Ketone bodies are naturally produced after exercise, an evolutionary mechanism honed over millions of years. Now, through a relatively new liquid supplement, evolution has a dimmer switch. That switch could enhance adaptation and performance...or it could go down more sinister paths. We highlight some stunning studies, including a review article released just last week, with implications for how we think about uncertain physiology in other areas too.

We also dug into a listener question about bone density! In coaching and research, we have seen big changes in bone density over time. No matter where you start, you can improve your outcomes via training and nutrition. We're past Halloween season, but it's never too late to get extremely excited about skeletons.

And this one was so full of fun! Other topics: race week thoughts, a study on training data from athletes who leveled up to world-class performers, 2 technology updates on shoes and shirts, eating disorder recovery, a fascinating new study on how protein synthesis changes based on protein sources, and hot takes.

For some reason, we take a diversion to riff on "g-receptor signaling" in a way that won't teach you anything, but may change how you think about biology. We promise that you won't get these riffs on Huberman.

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181. Fueling and Next-Day Performance, Running Cadence, Sodium Bicarbonate Supplementation, and NCAA XC Recap! Nov 21, 2023

Show notes

We brought some big-time gratitude to this supersized Thanksgiving episode! The main topic was a new study looking at how fueling during training impacts next-day performance and protein degradation. We are seeing a new world order in eating and training! We also present some contrasting perspectives from prominent coaches, trying to discern between data and anecdotes, highlighting where there is nuance.

The future is here. The future is TASTY. And sometimes the future will be STICKY.

With many listeners traveling for Thanksgiving, we figured it would be a good time to do our longest episode ever, full of our favorite discussions. Topics: methods to improve running cadence, training with music, winter gear and staying warm, a profound listener message on their fueling journey, a ballad for the thick hogs, the Western States lottery's exponential growth, an NCAA Cross Country Champs recap, Parker Valby's low volume running plan, the great Between Two Pines podcast, UTMB Whistler follow-up, our thoughts on Sam Altman's ouster from OpenAI, concerns about a SWAP podcast curse, Strava as a dating app, some of the science on sodium bicarbonate supplementation, worries about doping using worm blood (seriously), and hot takes.

We hope this episode is like your Thanksgiving celebration: wet and covered in gravy.

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180. Strength Work and Muscle Fibers, UTMB Controversy Updates, Creatine, and Speed in Ultras! Nov 14, 2023

Show notes

We were extra carb-loaded for this awesome episode! The main training topic was on a new study looking at how strength work changes muscle fiber properties over time. Strength training seemed to reverse the aging clock! We dig into the nuances of what it means and how to apply the findings for endurance athletes of all ages. Invest in a big kettlebell now.

The juiciest topic was the upheaval in trail running after UTMB's Whistler fiasco. It's a story as old as time, with the big power player throwing their weight around and responding to push-back with weak apologies. Now, a new World Trail Majors series is stepping up to go head-to-head with the juggernaut. What comes next? We have some ideas. Get ready to swirl around in a controversy that could determine the future of trail running, with implications that apply across participant sports.

And that was just the start of the fun! Other topics: getting up from the couch after periods of forced rest, improving recovery rates during hard training, a new American Record at 50 miles, a wild (true?) story from swimming featuring Diana Nyad, an update on the drama surrounding the USATF Marathon Trials, retirement in trail running, cut-off times, e-bikes, creatine supplementation, and hot takes.

Somehow, we discuss the plot of the 1995 movie Casper. We hadn't seen it in 18 years, so get ready for a whimsical game of telephone with the deranged movies we showed kids in the 90s.

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179. The Carbohydrate Revolution, Deep Thoughts on Coaching and Leadership, and Pacing Like Beautiful Idiots! Nov 07, 2023

Show notes

Our brain juices were really flowing on this great episode! The main story came from the pro peloton in cycling, where athletes are pushing the limits of carbohydrate consumption during hard races. In general, teams closely monitor fueling to get athletes to 100-120 grams of carbs per hour (400-480 calories), and there are hints that some are pushing the limits even farther. What can we learn? Our theory: "food doping" is not just for the pros, it's the way for all of us to access our greatest strengths and make hard training healthier in the process. Yet still, somehow, this is an unsettled area for runners. We bring the heat with our spiciest thoughts on performance fueling.

It's really hard to summarize this episode, so we'll just say this: as soon as the recording stopped, we agreed that it was the most fun we have had doing one of these. You probably know what that means... so many weird and fun discussions! Other topics: Josh McDaniels getting fired from the NFL as an excuse to wax poetic on ego-driven coaches, why the sports world has so often celebrated coaches who are bad people, what lessons there might be for leadership generally, why we love when athletes race as often as possible at shorter distances, our endless Halloween, a debate on candy flavors, the most incredible story from the US Trail Half Marathon Championships, a cool new study on timing of iron intake, NYC Marathon stories, Strava DMs, how to think about MRIs, and hot takes.

Our takes are like our crop tops and like all of our listeners. They are HOT STUFF.

For a weekly bonus episode (and bi-weekly newsletter, plus merch), make sure you're subscribed to our Patreon. We love you all! HUZZAH!

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178. UTMB's Big Blunder and What's Next For Trail Running, Intensity Distribution Science, and Big's Backyard! Oct 31, 2023

Show notes

We put on some dinosaur onesies (our business formal) for this awesome Halloween episode! The big discussion was on UTMB's controversial announcement of a new race in Whistler, Canada, on the same weekend as the now-discontinued, grassroots race called Whistler Alpine Meadows. UTMB rode the sport's wave of exponential growth, gobbling up races to incorporate into their World Series. When Whistler Alpine Meadows was denied a permit, they swooped in and plopped a corporate race in its place. It's a fascinating mix of business strategy, economic models, relationships, and culture, and we try to break it all down in a nuanced and empathetic way. We accept that a rising tide lifts all boats, and we acknowledge that we benefit from it. But if that tide destroys the smaller boats (whether through intention or mere negligence), we need to reject that thesis of unrestrained growth. This could be a turning point in the future of endurance sports, and the community has the power.

Before getting to UTMB's big blunder, we talked about training intensity distribution through the lens of a new review study! Across sports, endurance approaches coalesce around similar intensity distribution numbers, whether the sport involves the pool, the snow, or the trails. How wild is that? What are we seeing? In that convergence, there are lessons about how you structure your weeks and think about long-term growth.

And there were so many other fun discussions! Topics: heat training via Halloween costumes, the sexiest dinosaurs, our feelings on ghosts, 2 show recommendations, the importance of easy training and how that influences weekly structure, why workout design may be less important than you think, speed development, a recap of Big's Backyard and Harvey Lewis' awesome achievement, the Javelina 100, and hot takes.

For a weekly bonus episode (and bi-weekly newsletter plus access to SWAP gear), make sure you're subscribed to our Patreon. We love you all! HUZZAH!

Support the podcast: patreon.com/swap

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177. How to Use Caffeine, Blue Sky Marathon Lessons, Shoe Wear Science, and Pre-Run Fueling! Oct 24, 2023

Show notes

We brought some Big Party Energy to this great episode! The main discussion revolved around different ways we put research into practice. This weekend, David had one of his best races ever at the Blue Sky Marathon, and we adventure to the coolest edges of the science to tell you what we are trying! That included a deep dive into caffeine's role as a performance enhancer, particularly for fatigue resistance. Strategic, individualized caffeine consumption could be a massive opportunity for breakthroughs. Or, you might crap your pants and never sleep again. Worth it?!

We also talked about the wild, emerging science on ketone supplementation after exercise. It's hotly debated, but studies have found increased red blood cell production and reduced symptoms of overreaching with this intervention. We use the topic as an excuse to jump into the choppy waters of new science, where there may be adventure opportunities! Or there may be sharks who politely ask for more studies before experimenting with new protocols. Science sharks?!

And this episode was a total party with some of our favorite topics! Other discussions: a 3-cake birthday party, stress and health, big breakfasts, high-calorie fueling during races, year-round heat exposure, thoughts on pacing, a new study on how shoes wear down over time, continuous lactate monitoring, a rundown of this week's endurance news, and hot takes. Somehow, we end the episode harmonizing to Nelly's "Grillz." That's how every podcast should end, along with every graduation speech and most presidential addresses.

For a weekly bonus episode (and bi-weekly newsletter), make sure you're subscribed to our Patreon. We love you all! HUZZAH!

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176. Hemoglobin and VO2 Max, Zone 1 Training, Your Watch's Metrics, and Prototype Shoes! Oct 17, 2023

Show notes

We ate a truly stunning amount of chicken and milkshakes to fuel this great episode! The main training topic was on a new review article connecting hemoglobin levels and VO2 max. Across nearly 400 studies, these variables have a strong statistical correlation. Blood volume could be primary a driver of performance, and we break down some simple ways to optimize your levels.

We also celebrated Megan's return to training after some good health news! That was a great excuse to talk about the lost art of Zone 1 training. Easy can be very, very easy (at least some of the time). Your mitochondria and muscle fibers will thank you!

And this episode featured a ton of our favorite discussion points! Other topics: energy availability and our jaw-dropping Chick-Fil-A order, developing the entire aerobic curve, 3 ways to support self-belief, an incredible story from baseball's Philadelphia Phillies, doping thoughts, our issues with prototype shoes, qualities of good coaches (and whether they need to run themselves), your watch's metrics, whether you should pay attention to them, and hot takes. One of our listeners has a disturbing view of toilet paper that you need to hear... and ignore.

For a weekly bonus episode (and bi-weekly newsletter), make sure you're subscribed to our Patreon. We love you all! HUZZAH!

Support the podcast: patreon.com/swap

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175. Running Controversies, Chicago Marathon Stories, and Heart Rate Changes! Oct 10, 2023

Show notes

We brought some A+ brain energy and some C+ heart efficiency to this awesome episode! The main topics involved the extremely eventful weeks in the running world. On the joyous side, the Chicago Marathon was a race for the history books, with a new world record and blazing fast times from US runners. We celebrate the incredible Molly Seidel, plus talk about body image, fueling, rest days, training volume, and more. On the less joyous side, we discuss a controversy from a brand's social media post about the Boston Marathon. You know the one. And if you don't, get ready for a wild ride into the intersection of marketing, social media, and unintended consequences. We break it down, challenge each other, and hopefully come to a loving conclusion... After Megan was 100% right, of course.

And this episode was jam-packed with a mix of both important and irreverent discussions! Topics: last week's heart health setback, our hope for the future, training partners, protein intake, starting strength work, the cancellation of the Twin Cities Marathon due to heat and what that means for the future, abnormal heart rate responses, how to manage inflammation, and a listener corner email that will BLOW YOUR MIND.

For a weekly bonus episode (and bi-weekly newsletter), make sure you're subscribed to our Patreon. We love you all! HUZZAH!

Support the podcast: patreon.com/swap

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174. Wild Heart Rate Data, New Coaching Theories, and 8 Shoe Reviews! Oct 03, 2023

Show notes

You want the best podcast vibes? Because that's what you get on this episode, with some 4 AM recording energy. Why were we recording at 4 AM? For the love of the game! The main training topic was answering a listener question about what excites us most right now in coaching and theory. We delve into some of the scientific history of VO2 max via a new study, whether you should do shorter races, how to think about intensity distribution, popular supplements we are intrigued by, and lots more. We backed that important discussion topic up with a silly compilation of shoe reviews. Do you want to find the next shoe for you? Start here. Then go other places too, since we are mainly making fun of shoe companies.

And that was just the start of the pre-dawn fun! Other topics: the FURTHER project seeing how far athletes can go, our one at-home recommendation to improve your quality of life, the most weird heart rate responses to stress, WHOOP's new use of AI, Transvulcania leaving the UTMB World Series, Jim Walmsley getting a golden ticket to Western States, a wonderful new study on ultras, and hot takes. Stick around for a beautiful listener corner email at the end that will bring tears to your eyes and put fire in your belly!

For a weekly bonus episode (and bi-weekly newsletter), make sure you're subscribed to our Patreon. We love you all! HUZZAH!

Support the podcast: patreon.com/swap

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173. Grindstone 100k Lessons, Jim Walmsley's Training, and Marathon World Record! Sep 26, 2023

Show notes

The vibes were STRONG in this episode, even though the ankles were WEAK. It started off with a fun recap of the Grindstone 100k. What happens when an entire season is built around a goal, but it all ends in some delicious failure? Setbacks can be good for the soul, in moderation. In that way, they're kinda like bacon. Even more joyous than that was a full breakdown of Jim Walmsley's UTMB training, distilling some lessons from last week's interview. He gave us so many good nuggets, from weekly mileage to workout structure to season distribution, and we savor those tasty, tasty nuggets. Now we just need to convince Jim to let us co-write "The Walmsley Method."

All-in-all, this might have been the most fun we have ever had recording an episode! Other topics: the best sports story of the year, why we want to be like cyclist Sepp Kuss, a new study on training intensity in top cyclists, the $500 shoes from Adidas that were just used to set the road marathon world record, why that record makes us feel a bit queasy (with some unexpected tangents about economic theory), thoughts on caffeine intake via a new study on sleep impacts, and hot takes.

For a weekly bonus episode (and bi-weekly newsletter), make sure you're subscribed to our Patreon. We love you all! HUZZAH!

Support the podcast: patreon.com/swap

Try Athletic Greens: drinkAG1.com/swap

Buy Janji's amazing gear: https://janji.com/ (code "SWAP")

Precision Hydration discount link: https://visit.pfandh.com/swap