Outdoor
**Trail Runner Nation**

Trail Runner Nation is devoted to sharing knowledge and advice to the trail running community – from beginners to the pros! We offer tips and discussion regarding race nutrition, pacing strategy, mental focus and much more from well-respected members of the trail community.

Latest Episodes:

The Race I Had to Stop Racing | EP 805 Oct 29, 2026

Show notes

Scott trades his usual host chair for the guest seat to share what happened during five weeks on the Camino de Santiago, with his son Ryan joining him for the final 300 kilometers. What looked on paper like manageable 15-to-20-mile days became a lesson in cumulative fatigue, infected blisters, carrying a pack, and doing it all again the next morning. Along the way, Scott discovered something unexpected: weeks of slow, steady walking left him remarkably fit, dropping his resting heart rate by 10 beats and making his first run home feel almost effortless. But the real story became the people, from more than 100 meaningful encounters to intimate conversations with complete strangers and friendships that crossed languages and cultures. Scott and Ryan reflect on the Camino’s central lesson that everyone walks their own path, and how that idea challenged Scott to trade judgment for a little more grace. The Camino ultimately became something bigger than a 500-mile adventure, showing how endurance fitness can take us far beyond races and into experiences that may actually change how we live.

EPISODE SPONSORS
Tifosi Optics - CLARITY ON THE TRAIL: Post your Golden Nugget of wisdom that helps you recover after a huge effort on Instagram, tag @TifosiOptics, @TrailRunnerNation, and use the hashtag #ClarityOnTheTrail. OR try texting us (within the USA) with your tip: 916-235-3928.
If we use yours on a weekly episode, you get a pair of the new Sanctum SL glasses!
Get 20% off with code TRN20

Timestamps

03:19 | This Is Not a Race Scott explains the thousand-year history of the Camino and how it took several days to turn off his trail-racer instinct to chase, pass, and monitor pace.

09:50 | What Do You Carry for 500 Miles?
From a sub-20-pound pack to albergues, hand-washed clothes, earplugs, eye masks, and rain gear, Scott explains what daily life on the Camino actually looks like.

23:23 | The People Become the Story
Scott describes more than 100 meaningful encounters and how strangers from around the world quickly moved past small talk into remarkably personal conversations.

43:43 | Ryan Joins the Camino
Ryan arrives for the final 300 kilometers, bringing a fresh perspective, some early IT-band trouble, and an unforgettable stretch of father-son time.

48:16 | Harder Than an Ultrarunner Expected
Fifteen to 20 miles sounds manageable until it becomes roughly 100 miles a week, every week, with a pack and no traditional recovery days.

51:29 | No Running, Better Fitness?
After five weeks of walking, Scott returns home noticeably fitter, runs his usual loop about a minute per mile faster, and reports a 10-beat drop in resting heart rate.

58:40 | The Lesson of the Empty Cup
Scott and Ryan unpack the deeper lessons of the Camino: doing hard things, giving people more grace, letting others find their own path, and realizing that endurance adventures don’t need a bib or a finish-line clock to matter.

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Dying to Run: When Running Is Who You Are | EP 804 Oct 23, 2026

Show notes

Matt Fitzgerald returns to Trail Runner Nation to talk about his deeply personal book Dying to Run: An Athlete’s Quest for One More Finish and the long COVID diagnosis that transformed his life as a runner. After more than three years without running, Matt signed up for a 100K desert ultra, Javalina Hundred, despite believing he had only about a 10 percent chance of even making it to the start line. The conversation explores how he cautiously rebuilt enough fitness to attempt the race, but the bigger story is how he redefined success from achieving a result to refusing to let his disease decide who he could be. Matt talks candidly about running as identity, community, addiction, and something that left a hole nothing else could completely fill when it disappeared. He also explains how Stoicism helped him accept reality without surrendering to it, and how suffering became something he could use rather than simply something he had to escape. Most powerfully, Matt says he would make the same choices again, even knowing long COVID was waiting for him, because removing the hardship would also remove the person he became through it.

LINKS
Dream Run Camp

Timestamps

00:00 – When Running Is Taken Away Matt explains how long COVID ended his running for more than three years and why he eventually committed to a 100K desert ultra despite still being sick.

05:14 – Living With Long COVID
Matt describes the neurological symptoms, post-exertional crashes, loss of function, and the realization that “recovery” may never mean returning to his old body.

09:32 – Training With a 10% Chance of Starting
Forty pounds above his former racing weight and badly deconditioned, Matt begins with walking and tries to carefully build just enough fitness without triggering another major setback.

19:22 – The Voices That Tell Us to Stop
The conversation turns to suffering, pride, competitiveness, and the surprising realization that Matt’s biggest struggle wasn't quitting, but accepting that he could no longer perform like the athlete he once was.

23:25 – When Running Becomes Your Identity
Matt wrestles with an uncomfortable question: what happens when running isn't simply something you do, but a central piece of who you are?

28:03 – Stoicism, Suffering and Redefining Success
Matt explains how Stoic ideas helped him face reality without self-pity and redefine success around how he responded to circumstances rather than what he accomplished.

47:12 – Who Are You Without the Circus?
Matt reflects on a lifetime of achievement, his changing definition of happiness, Dream Run Camp, and why he would still choose the path that led to long COVID because of what the experience ultimately taught him.

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Aging As An Athlete - Your Mind Remembers. Your Body Has Changed | EP 803 Oct 14, 2026

Show notes

In this new Aging As An Athlete episode with Krissy Moehl, Coach Kirk Keller has been running since 1974, and nearly six decades later, he’s still training, racing, coaching, and figuring things out. He joins The Nation to talk about one of the hardest lessons for aging athletes: the training that worked years ago may not be the training your body needs today. The conversation covers consistency, recovery, RPE, mental training, durability, and the danger of comparing today’s pace to an earlier version of yourself. Kirk also shares a fresh lesson from the Bridger Ridge Run, where tired legs forced him to reconsider his own recovery and training load, proving that even an experienced coach still has to keep rewriting the playbook. Krissy adds her perspective on how experience, durability, life stress, and smarter recovery have changed her approach to training in her 40s. The bigger message is encouraging: aging changes the athlete, but it can also bring wisdom, perspective, problem-solving skills, and a deeper appreciation for simply being out there.

LINKS:

RunMotion Coach: Whether you’re training for your first trail race or chasing a new ultra PR, RunMotion Coach creates a personalized training plan that adapts to your schedule, fitness, and progress. Built by experienced coaches and powered by intelligent coaching technology, it helps you train smarter, stay consistent, and arrive at the starting line ready for your next adventure.

Timestamps

02:43 – Why Coach 40+ Athletes? Kirk explains what makes older athletes so rewarding to coach, including their commitment, clear goals, and occasional tendency to do too much.

07:35 – Can We Still Get Faster as We Age?
The group examines age, previous training history, accumulated mileage, and why personal bests mean something different depending on when someone began running.

12:58 – Consistency, Durability, and Training After 40
Kirk identifies consistency as a major predictor of success and explains why older athletes may need a flatter, more patient approach to building toward big goals.

29:58 – The Biggest Mistake Aging Athletes Make
Kirk argues that denying the effects of age can hold runners back, while accepting change creates room to adjust and keep doing meaningful things on the trail.

34:54 – Why RPE Becomes More Valuable With Age
They discuss using perceived effort instead of chasing old splits, giving runners a more useful way to measure effort across changing terrain and changing bodies.

37:28 – Training the Aging Runner’s Brain
Kirk explains why mental skills remain trainable and how runners can recognize negative thoughts, verbalize them, and replace them during difficult moments.

43:38 – A Coach Learns His Own Recovery Lesson
After struggling early at the Bridger Ridge Run, Kirk realizes he had stacked hard training too closely together and needs to rethink recovery at age 67. The conversation expands into durability, wisdom, changing expectations, and the value of continually experimenting with training as we age.

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Caffeine Makes You Faster… Until It Doesn’t | EP 802 Oct 08, 2026

Show notes

Caffeine is one of the most researched performance aids in sport, but Dr. Neil Clarke says its biggest misconception is that it works the same way for everyone. The research strongly supports caffeine for endurance performance, yet the right dose, timing, and delivery method can vary dramatically from one runner to another. Clarke explains how caffeine can reduce perceived effort and pain, increase motivation, and potentially help athletes sustain performance longer. The conversation covers coffee versus pills, gels and gum, caffeine during ultras, sleep, withdrawal, and why cutting caffeine before a race may not provide the boost many runners expect. For trail and ultrarunners, the most useful takeaway is surprisingly simple: start with a low dose, test it in training, and look for the smallest amount that improves performance without creating side effects.

LINKS

Timestamps

01:01 | The Biggest Caffeine Myth
Dr. Neil Clarke explains why caffeine doesn't work the same way for every athlete and why runners need to treat themselves as an experiment of one.

08:33 | Finding the Right Dose
The research points toward general dosing guidelines, but genetics, sensitivity, training status, and side effects can dramatically change what works for an individual runner.

10:13 | Coffee, Pills, Gels or Gum?
Neil compares common caffeine sources and explains why delivery method can affect how quickly runners feel the benefits.

20:17 | Should You Quit Caffeine Before a Race?
The popular strategy of reducing caffeine before race day gets challenged, including the potential downside of withdrawal symptoms.

28:17 | How Caffeine Actually Improves Performance
Caffeine can affect motivation, pain perception and perceived effort, helping explain why hard running may feel more manageable.

32:29 | Using Caffeine During an Ultra
For a 50K or longer event, Neil discusses starting doses, mid-race top-ups, course timing, and why runners need to test their strategy before race day.

48:26 | Build Your Own Caffeine Strategy
Neil finishes with a practical approach: start low, gradually experiment, and find the smallest dose that produces a benefit without unwanted side effects.

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What If You Haven’t Found Your Limit Yet? | EP 801 Oct 02, 2026

Show notes

Ryan Lange thought nine years of ultrarunning had given him a pretty good idea of his limits, until mile 88 of the Summit 200 changed everything. When he learned he was leading the race, pain suddenly became less important, his mindset shifted, and he began pushing at a level he hadn’t known was there. Ryan breaks down the practical pieces that helped make that breakthrough possible, including gradually shifting his sleep schedule before race day, training his gut to handle huge amounts of fuel, strategically using caffeine, keeping aid stations efficient, and giving his pacers permission to push him hard. He also explains why his training has evolved from 80 to 100-mile weeks toward a more sustainable 40 to 60 miles most weeks, because he wants running to support his life rather than consume it. The conversation goes beyond racing into how years of failing, adapting, and slowly improving have shaped Ryan as an entrepreneur and taught him to value discipline over instant success. Ultimately, it’s a conversation about the intriguing possibility that the limits we think we’ve discovered may simply be the limits we’ve experienced so far.

LINKS
Raverunner Bags

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Learn more about Altra Fit. Feel the Altra Difference and use code TRN10 for 10% off your first order at checkout at altrarunning.com/TRN. Stay Out There with Altra.

Timestamps

00:00 – Finding Another Gear After nine years of ultrarunning, Ryan explains what happened at mile 88 of the Summit 200 when he learned he was suddenly leading the race and his perception of pain changed.

06:20 – How Pacers Changed the Race
Ryan explains how he deliberately gave his pacers permission to push him hard and even convince him that second place was closing in when the gap was actually growing.

14:30 – Sleep and Fueling for 200 Miles
Ryan shares how he gradually shifted his wake-up time before the race, trained his gut for heavy fueling, and used nutrition to avoid the bonk that often changes an ultra.

26:50 – Saving Caffeine for When It Matters
Ryan explains why he reduces caffeine before a 200 and holds it back until the second night, turning it into both a physiological boost and something to look forward to.

30:00 – From Losing Weight to Loving the Process
Ryan traces his journey from a kid struggling with his weight to a 20-year-old Moab 240 finisher, and eventually to someone who sees endurance as training for the rest of life.

35:00 – What Ultrarunning Teaches About Success
The conversation connects running and entrepreneurship, exploring why solving problems, failing repeatedly, and earning progress can build something more durable than quick success.

49:10 – How Much Training Is Really Enough?
Ryan explains why he no longer believes huge mileage is automatically better, how he can prepare for 200-mile races on roughly 40 to 60 miles most weeks, and why keeping running enjoyable matters.

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You Don't Need a Bib to Be a Runner | EP 800 Sep 23, 2026

Show notes

For much of her career, Ellie Greenwood measured herself against the best runners in the world, but her relationship with running has evolved toward something less measurable and, in some ways, more meaningful. She talks with Don and Scott about why racing can gradually shift from exciting to stressful, and why stepping away from competition doesn't mean stepping away from being a serious runner. The conversation explores how personal projects, peak bagging, FKTs, mileage or vertical challenges, and even running every street in your hometown can provide the same motivation that once came from a race on the calendar. Ellie also tackles an important question for aging athletes: what happens when working harder no longer produces the performances it once did, and can changing the goal help preserve our love of running? Along the way, they share adventure ideas ranging from Rim-to-Rim-to-Rim and running a favorite race course unofficially to travel running and some wonderfully ridiculous challenges involving ironing boards and whole chickens. Ultimately, Ellie makes the case that a bib is only one way to create purpose, and the best running goal may simply be the one that keeps you curious, moving, and excited about what's around the next corner. Hire Ellie as a coach at SharmanUltra

Timestamps

01:05 | From Racing to Adventure Ellie explains how one of the sport's most accomplished competitors began finding fulfillment in running experiences that have nothing to do with racing.

07:15 | Does Adventure Need Competition?
The group considers how personal challenges can provide difficulty and purpose without turning every run into another contest.

11:00 | Training Without a Race on the Calendar
Ellie shares how she coaches runners toward adventure, fitness, skills, and personal goals even when there's no finish line waiting for them.

22:40 | Are You Still a Trail Runner Without a Bib?
Scott raises the identity question at the heart of the episode, and Ellie explains why racing should never define who gets to call themselves a trail runner.

27:29 | How Long Are Our Best Running Years?
A discussion of the "Sawchuk Seven" leads to aging, longevity, smart training, burnout, and what happens when improvement becomes harder to find.

37:03 | Adventure Ideas You Can Actually Try
From running every street in your town to exploring unfamiliar trails, Ellie, Don, and Scott start building a menu of adventures that don't require an entry fee.

42:34 | Rim-to-Rim, Foil Buckles and Running the World
The conversation expands into Grand Canyon crossings, unofficial Western States adventures, delightfully strange challenges, and using running as a way to experience new places.

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The Secret Every Happy Trail Runner Knows | EP 799 Sep 18, 2026

Show notes

Matt Lambert has become one of the quiet legends of the Auburn trail community, not because of race results, but because of the joy, generosity, and gratitude he brings to every run. Although he's a seven-time Western States finisher, Matt rarely talks about racing. Instead, he shares how growing up on the Western States Trail taught him that running is about adventure, friendship, and discovering the "pharmacy in your head," where movement naturally brings peace, perspective, and emotional healing. The conversation explores how our relationship with the trail evolves over time, why Matt intentionally stepped away from racing before it stopped bringing him joy, and how balancing running with other activities has allowed him to stay healthy for decades. Along the way, Don, Scott, and Matt reflect on why trail running creates deeper friendships than almost any other activity and how time on the trail often provides clarity that's difficult to find anywhere else. It's an inspiring reminder that the greatest reward isn't another buckle. It's becoming the kind of person who still can't wait to head into the woods after forty years.

Timestamps

00:00 | Why Matt Lambert Inspires So Many Runners Scott introduces "Lamb Chops," whose love for the trail has made him one of Auburn's most beloved ambassadors despite rarely talking about his impressive race resume.

09:30 | Adventure, Friendship, and Growing Up on the Trails
Matt shares how exploring the Auburn canyons as a kid and meeting influential mentors shaped his lifelong love of trail running.

20:40 | The "Pharmacy in Your Head"
Matt explains why running became his healthiest source of joy and why nature has always been his most powerful medicine.

30:00 | The Trail as a Place of Healing
The conversation turns to mental health, finding perspective, and why a run has always been Matt's path back from life's hardest moments.

41:15 | Why Longevity Beats Mileage
Drawing from decades as chiropractors, Matt and Don discuss avoiding overtraining, embracing cross training, and staying healthy enough to enjoy the trails for life.

50:00 | Knowing When to Let Racing Go
Matt reflects on finishing Western States seven times, recognizing when the suffering outweighed the joy, and redefining his relationship with running.

1:03:00 | What Really Matters After Decades on the Trail
Scott shares how Matt influenced his own evolution as a runner, leading to a heartfelt conversation about purpose, perspective, and loving the trail long after racing fades.

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You're Probably Carrying Water the Wrong Way | EP 798 Sep 11, 2026

Show notes

Hydration can make or break a long run, but there isn't a universal formula that works for everyone. Kramer Ammons shares how he tests everything from sweat rate and hydration timing to where runners carry their water, explaining why the most efficient solution isn't always the most obvious. The conversation explores handheld bottles, hydration belts, vests, bladders, and why convenience often matters just as much as laboratory efficiency. Don and Scott add decades of racing experience, emphasizing that successful runners solve problems early instead of waiting until dehydration, stomach issues, or fatigue force them to slow down. The discussion also covers pre-hydration, electrolytes, carb drinks, aid station strategy, and how listening to your body is often more valuable than blindly following generic hydration guidelines. The biggest takeaway is that great hydration isn't about copying someone else's plan. It's about experimenting until you discover what consistently works for you.

Links:

Kramer's "how to carry water" video
Kramer's company 55Miles

EPISODE SPONSORS Tifosi Optics - CLARITY ON THE TRAIL: Post your Golden Nugget of wisdom that helps you recover after a huge effort on Instagram, tag @TifosiOptics, @TrailRunnerNation, and use the hashtag #ClarityOnTheTrail. OR try texting us (within the USA) with your tip: 916-235-3928. If we use yours on a weekly episode, you get a pair of the new Sanctum SL glasses!

Timestamps

00:00 | Why Hydration Is So Complicated Hydration seems simple until heat, sweat rate, pace, nutrition, and aid stations all start influencing the equation.

04:30 | The Best Way to Carry Water
Kramer explains the research behind handheld bottles, hydration belts, vests, and why carrying weight near your center of mass can improve efficiency.

12:30 | Find Your Personal Sweat Rate
Learn a simple sweat rate test and why copying someone else's hydration plan rarely works.

18:00 | Pre-Hydration Before You Start
The conversation covers electrolytes, hydration loading, coffee, and preparing before the first mile instead of trying to catch up later.

24:30 | Choosing the Right Hydration System
The pros and cons of handheld bottles, running belts, front flasks, hydration bladders, and when each option makes the most sense.

45:30 | Water, Electrolytes, and Carbs
The hosts discuss balancing plain water with sports drinks, avoiding stomach issues, and fueling longer races more effectively.

49:00 | The Best Runners Solve Problems Early
One of the episode's biggest lessons: recognize small problems before they become race-ending mistakes, and leave a little in reserve so you can finish strong.

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Aging As An Athlete - The Best Miles Aren’t Always the Fastest | EP 797 Sep 04, 2026

Show notes

Krissy Moehl, Kathleen Egan, and Jenny Jurek, affectionately known as the Mullet Train, share the story behind their goal of completing 1,000 trail miles together, including the Arizona Trail, High Lonesome 100, and Crazy Mountain 100. What started as an annual fastpacking adventure evolved into something much bigger: an intentional way to preserve friendship, challenge themselves, and keep adventure central as they get older. They talk candidly about learning each other's rhythms, figuring out how far their particular “train” can realistically travel each day, and discovering that a successful adventure doesn't always mean sticking stubbornly to the original plan. The conversation also gets wonderfully practical, covering ultralight gear, water, food, trail magic, trail names, cowboy camping, and the different “superpowers” each woman brings to the group. One of the most interesting shifts comes from Krissy, who spent decades racing at the highest level but now finds herself wanting to stop, take her shoes off at lunch, and actually absorb the places she once would have raced through. Underneath it all is a compelling message for aging athletes: don't wait for adventure to happen, put it on the calendar, find people who make you want to show up, and go collect some stories while your body still lets you.

LINKS

Jenny and Scott Jurek's book, North - Finding My Way While Running the Appalachian Trail
Krissy's coaching and races

Timestamps

00:24 – The 1,000-Mile Idea Krissy, Kathleen, and Jenny introduce their goal of covering 1,000 trail miles together and explain how an annual adventure gradually became something much bigger.

05:35 – Why They Needed This Adventure
Jenny explains how life, motherhood, and time away from ultrarunning left her craving an adventure, and a proposed section hike eventually grew into tackling the Arizona Trail.

14:28 – Why This, Why Now?
The women discuss why these adventures feel particularly meaningful at this stage of their lives and why intentionally carving out time together matters.

20:19 – Welcome Aboard the Mullet Train
Jenny explains the wonderfully ridiculous origin of their team name, while the women identify the different “superpowers” each brings to the trail.

28:45 – It Took 400 Miles to Become a Team
Kathleen explains how ambitious mileage goals gradually gave way to understanding their natural pace and how hundreds of miles together taught them to read and support one another.

35:00 – From Racing Through It to Taking It In
Krissy reflects on one of her biggest changes as an athlete: after years of elite racing, she no longer wants to rush through beautiful places and would rather stop, soak her shirt in the creek, and enjoy where she is.

46:20 – Rattlesnakes, Cowgirl Camping and the Best Stories
The women share moments when things didn't go according to plan, including a close encounter with a rattlesnake and an uncomfortable night of cowboy camping that unexpectedly became one of their favorite memories.

50:43 – Why Adventure Matters in Your 50s
Jenny talks about the freedom of stepping away from work and family responsibilities and being completely responsible for herself in the mountains, while the group reflects on why these trips mean so much now.

54:08 – Sometimes the Hardest Part Is Showing Up
Jenny compares their adventures to running a 100-miler: scheduling, planning, and getting everyone to the start can be harder than the adventure itself. Once they finally see each other at the airport, they know making the time was worth it.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Three Elite Coaches. Six Impossible Decisions | EP 796 Aug 28, 2026

Show notes

Coaching advice almost always starts with, “It depends.” In this special Ask the Coaches episode, Don and Scott take away that safety net by forcing Ian Sharman, Hal Koerner, and Ellie Greenwood to make definitive choices on some of trail running’s biggest debates. Is it better to be undertrained or overtrained? Should you trust data or your instincts? Would you add mileage or strength training? Can motivation be taught? Along the way, the coaches reveal not only their philosophies, but also the surprising amount of agreement behind them. Beneath the conversation emerges a consistent message: sustainable training, learning to listen to your body, and developing good judgment matter far more than chasing perfect numbers. It’s entertaining, occasionally chaotic, and full of coaching wisdom every trail runner can apply.

LINKS
- Sharman Ultra Coaching

The Art of Ultrarunning book, by Ian
Hal Koerners's Field Guide to Ultrarunning
Hal's races: Siskiyou Out Back & Lithia Loop
- Rogue Valley Runners Store
Knee Knacker 30-mile
Forerunners North Shore store that Ellie works part time

Instant Hydration:

Timestamps

00:00 | The Rules: No “It Depends” The coaches are forced to choose between two coaching philosophies before explaining their reasoning.

04:00 | Training Smarter vs. Training Harder
Should runners prioritize perfect execution or simply never miss a workout? The coaches debate consistency, intensity, and long-term improvement.

21:00 | Undertrained or Overtrained?
The panel discusses why arriving healthy, rested, and mentally excited may be more valuable than squeezing in one more week of training.

29:00 | Mileage or Strength Training?
With limited training time, the coaches debate whether extra running or extra strength work produces the biggest return.

44:00 | Trust the Data or Trust Yourself?
Heart rate, recovery scores, wearables, and intuition collide as the coaches explain why learning effort by feel remains one of the most valuable skills in ultrarunning.

56:00 | What Should You Do When You Want to Quit?
The coaches tackle one of the hardest race-day scenarios: stop, regroup, and reassess, or keep moving forward no matter how slowly.

1:11:00 | Final Thoughts (and One Last “It Depends”)
The episode wraps with laughs, reflections, and one final reminder that while coaching often depends on context, the principles of smart, sustainable training remain remarkably consistent.

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