Some Work, All Play - David Roche and Megan Roche

Latest Episodes:

212. Olympic Trials Stories, Western States Preview, Jim Walmsley's VK, Salty Foods for Training, Broken Arrow Breakthroughs, and Arm Band Heart Rate! Jun 25, 2024

Show notes

We are coming to you from Eugene, Oregon at the Olympic Track Trials for this amazing episode! The main topic was on some inspiring stories from the first half of the Trials, which feels like the ultimate party of the US running world. And like most good parties, it features a lot of Snoop Dogg.

We also talked about lessons from Broken Arrow, including Jim Walmsley doing the Vertical Kilometer race prior to the Western States 100, right alongside Anna Gibson racing the VK prior to the Olympic Trials 1500 meters. It's clear that we are seeing something about how this type of skill applies to all types of events, whether those events are 4 minutes or 14 hours!

And this one was full of some of the greatest topics! Other topics: our initial thoughts on Oregon and Tracktown USA, getting coaching credentials at the Trials, birthday reflections, a question on salty food options for endurance events, why Broken Arrow was one of the most competitive races ever on US soil, Jade Belzberg's incredible journey for an incredible race in the 23k, Drew Hunter's gutsy 4th place in the Trials 10k, the psychology of racing in heats, why an emphasis on coaches in Olympics coverage makes David nervous, why Megan thinks it's a weak argument, a Western States preview, how this year's race will unfold, the incredible tech of the Coros Arm Band HR monitor, UTMB's new prize money announcement, and hot takes.

The episode finishes with a meditation inspired by our spiritual teacher, Ludacris. May all of your days and all of your drinks be crunk.

We love you all! HUZZAH! Trucks!

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211. Speed for Long Races, Olympic Trials and Western States, vVO2 Workouts, Roger Federer's Speech on Belief, and Bicarb Hacks! Jun 18, 2024

Show notes

We thought long and hard about alien physiology before recording this great episode! The main topic was a wildly cool wrinkle in training science. Across all different types of events, the most predictive variable for performance is often how fast an athlete can go at VO2 max effort. That could have massive implications for how we think about training and what we consider "specificity" for long events!

We discussed why we think that is, along with workout designs, the use of hills, and how much we want to get aliens on a treadmill. ET can phone home after ET does a VO2 max test.

And this one was full of our favorite topics! Other topics: Addie dog going strong at nearly 12 years old, the upcoming Olympic Trials on the track, our wild travel schedule between the Trials and Western States, stroller running and our worrisome experience, sodium bicarbonate hacks, workout design, the power of using set-based structures, running economy and other predictors in ultras, a new study on fatigue resistance/durability and its relation to training status, Alex Honnold running the Lavaredo 50k, Roger Federer's wonderful speech on perseverance, messages about ferritin increases from liposomal iron, Joey Chestnut's ban from the hot dog eating contest and what it says about sponsorships, the increasing cost of shoes, Keely Hodgkinson's low-volume approach with lots of cross training, and hot takes.

When the aliens arrive, we should give them a cup of chocolate Nesquik so they can experience our finest delicacies. Then it's straight onto the treadmill for some podcast content.

We love you all! HUZZAH! Aliens!

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210. Why Strides Work, Supershoe Tech Review for the Trails, History at NCAA Champs, Parker Valby's Dominance, and AI Songs! Jun 11, 2024

Show notes

We put on some bouncy shoes for optimal energy return before this great episode! The main training discussion was a new study on a speed protocol that caused major improvements in high-level runners. We zoom out to discuss other studies that have similar findings, including one that provided a theory for mechanisms in slow-twitch muscle fibers. There is one thing almost every endurance athlete should be doing--short speed/hill repeats under 30 seconds. It's wild how simple it can be!

Before that, we got to share amazing news: we just got our hands on a trail supershoe that seems to channel the tech that changed the game in road running. The Adidas Terrex Agravic Speed Ultra is soft underfoot and built-up like its road counterparts, and it'll feel familiar to anyone who has had the silky smooth feeling of going fast in the new generation of shoes. We have some gripes (what is up with that sizing? Are they stable/durable?), but mostly we are excited about what it might mean for the future once this tech approach trickles down across the sport, including to training shoes.

And this episode was full of amazing topics! Other topics: matching outfits, the fun of track coaching, why trail shoes are lagging behind, what the future might hold for shoes based on the timeline from roads, running economy improvements after speed-based interventions, how to incorporate strides into a training plan, "delivering the message" in ultras, On sponsoring Zendaya, Allie Ostrander's win at the Portland Track Festival and why we think it's one of the best stories in sports, Shane Cohen's breakthrough win at the NCAA Champs, Parker Valby's dominance (and shoe craftsmanship), an AI song from a listener (plus other AI thoughts), a study on potential mitochondria-based changes from sodium bicarbonate, and hot takes.

If On has Zendaya, the SWAP podcast needs to get Timothee Chalamet. Someone text him for us!

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209. Love With Limits, Spring Energy's False Nutrition Labels, Kilian's Unmatched Dominance, Running Club Romance, and The Future is Female Coaches! Jun 04, 2024

Show notes

We were emotionally hardened by some sleepless nights before recording this special episode! A couple months ago, a brilliant podcast listener on Reddit published her predictions that Spring Energy's Awesomesauce gel had incorrect calorie counts. Three weeks ago, those findings were confirmed by a German lab. This past week, everything exploded on social media with all of Spring's gels listing fraudulent calorie totals, roping us into a situation that we never hope to relive. This episode talks about our emotions.

We are furious about the mislabeling. We wish we could go back in time and tell ourselves that nutrition labels can list fraudulent calorie totals, and we wish we could undo the health and performance struggles that so many runners have felt due to the egregious mislabeling. We are sorry for our connections to Spring years ago, and we love you all.

At the same time, love has limits. This past week pushed us to our emotional edge. It demonstrated some of the problems with social media and a society that can chase clout and clicks over kindness and nuanced facts. Podcast listeners got us through, and we are emerging with more compassion, more courage, and fewer f's to give. As Megan wrote, "Love to you all, especially to any woman who has dealt with a small man: may you become larger in who you authentically are."

And we threw in a bunch of fun topics! Other topics: reflections from sleepless nights, Pride Month joy, lessons from some of the highest energy expenditures ever studied, women in coaching, Unbound Cycling and the success of multisport athletes in bike races, Kilian's legendary dominance at Zegama, a study on CBD in runners, running club romantic connections, our love of Park Runs, and hot takes.

We finish with some Listener Corner messages that kept us going in a really hard time. We love you all! Yes, ALL. The world can be dark and scary, especially on social media, and we hope that we can help fill your lives with as much light and as many calories as possible.

PSA: empty your septic tanks and don't let the stank affect who you are. HUZZAH!!!

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208. Gel Controversy Grows, Courtney's Nutrition Strategy, Fueling Case Studies, World Record 10k, Trash Talking on the Track, and A Meaning of Life! May 28, 2024

Show notes

We ate a bag of performance waffles to get ready for this awesome episode! The first topic was a follow-up on the controversy about a gel that may have mislabeled its calorie count. We discuss emails from listeners that provide more context, along with what it might mean for food labeling generally. It's a wild, wild world out there!

The main training topic was Courtney Dauwalter's race-day nutrition, which she discussed in a recent interview. The GOAT says she only consumes 200 calories per hour during races, well below most other elite athletes. What are we seeing? We dive into metabolic variance, and how that might be relevant based on gender and background. There is lots of wiggle room to find what works for you! Become one with the slurp.

And there were so many other great topics! Other topics: how often nutrition labels might be misleading, what we predict will happen next in the controversy, strange body connections via David's post-crash experience, practicing competition in training, pre-training meals, why Vafels are our new favorite pre-training fuel, case studies on race-day fueling numbers, a fun study on "grounding" science, the 10k world record, the Pre Classic mile and how trash talk is making track more fun, David's experience with sodium bicarbonate prior to intense workouts, why frivolous pursuits are meaningful, a survey on sleeping in separate beds, Brooks' surprising new sponsored athlete (an actor!), and hot takes.

If you put this episode in a calorimeter, you'd see that it has enough energy to power a spaceship! Just don't check our math on that.

We love you all! HUZZAH!

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207. Core Strength, Controversy in a Gel's Calorie Total, Track Coaching Takeaways, Ketones and Hormones, Big Hope, and Coaching AI! May 21, 2024

Show notes

We gathered liquid courage (chugging from a gallon of chocolate milk) for this great episode! The main training topic comes from the world of track, where athletes are probing the limits of human physiology. Because the margins separating athletes on the track are so small, there are takeaways for all endurance performance. Raise the ceiling to raise the floor! Yes, raising the roof is making a comeback like it's 2002 again.

We also talked about the ongoing controversy about an energy gel's nutrition label, and whether the actual carbohydrate total is lower than stated. It's a conversation that stumbles toward enlightenment while careening into a few ditches along the way, trying to balance love and accountability. This conversation also includes our first ever sound effect. Big time! The gel controversy may not be awesome, but it's definitely interesting.

And we had some of the best topics to fill out the episode! Other topics: big hope for the bundle of cells, our core work routines and how we think about core training for athletes, a small-but-important study on ketones and reduced testosterone, aerobic v. mechanical adaptations, upcoming updates to Strava including an AI coaching feature, more AI thoughts, and hot takes.

This episode is a wild journey! Grab your personal gallon of chocolate milk and let's ride.

We love you all! HUZZAH!

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206. Doing Hard Things, Longevity and Training, Fueling Short Workouts, The Power of Placebo, AI Bots, and Cocodona 250! May 14, 2024

Show notes

We sat in a stew of uncertainty before recording this awesome (and healing) episode! The main training topic was a pair of studies looking at longevity outcomes in serious athletes. Extra-hard training seems to have longevity benefits compared to general population lifestyles, contrary to some warnings you might hear! Let's all plan on doing uphill treadmill runs in the nursing home.

The big conversation was in the spirit of sharing all of the ups and downs of life. TW: deep discussions of pregnancy uncertainty. Megan courageously shared her current health status, and how she is thinking about vulnerability in a tough time. Over the last 4 years of this podcast, we have opened up about everything, and our lives have opened up with so much love as a result. We got this, whatever "this" ends up being, even if it takes a while.

And we discussed so many of our favorite topics! Our theory is that talking about interesting things (and making jokes) is restorative. Other topics: Conan O'Brien's commitment to the bit, how the new Jim Walmsley video played a role in our weekend, fitness return after David's accident, caffeinated gels and fueling workouts, AI bots and how we think it may change human interaction as we know it, a new study on sodium bicarbonate and the placebo effect, the Cocodona 250 and multi-day ultras, Zwift's price increases, Emma Coburn's toughness, and hot takes.

There may even be a poetry reading at the end. Stick around to find out... If you dare!

On a day like today, we are even more thankful for the amazing listeners out there who give us strength and courage to wander through the darker forests along the way. We love you all! HUZZAH!

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205. The Mystery of Training Non-Response, Strength Work Approaches, Health Metrics, New Bike Day, and Track Going Mainstream! May 07, 2024

Show notes

We celebrated a week with minimal life drama (YAY) before recording this great episode! The main training topic was a new study monitoring response v. non-response. Imagine two similar athletes who are given the the same training program. One could have breakthroughs, and one could face physical disaster. Why? We use the study to talk about how we have seen athletes respond differently, and ways you might be able to understand your own unique physiology. Training theory is such a cool window into how every body is different!

We also talked about metrics we track! Almost every watch has a treasure trove of data if you know where to look. For David, that data helped guide a non-linear post-crash recovery. For Megan, it helped reveal an unexpected pregnancy. For you, it could help you move through the uncertainty of things like response v. non-response with more confidence. Plus, we all love fancy graphs!

And this one was full of fun topics! Other topics: new bike day, a mystery about a signature, why we might want to remain skeptical about AI, 3 shoes we are reviewing, a new study on running economy variance and fatigue resistance in trained v. untrained runners, how combining strength training approaches may be helpful (with possible neuromuscular rationales), a new track league that promises to do everything differently, how questionnaire response rate may influence study outcomes, mixing creatine and caffeine and sodium bicarbonate, and uninformed horse thoughts.

Stick around to the very end for a special Easter Egg from the editing process. We love you all! HUZZAH!

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204. Canyons 100k Breakthroughs, Why Megan Didn't Race, Carb-Loading Thoughts, Bloodwork Season, TikTok Ban, and Big Surprises! Apr 30, 2024

Show notes

We got the surprise of our lives before recording this dazed-and-excited episode! The main topic was the Canyons 100k. It was Megan's dream race, and you may have seen... she did not start. We had some incredibly surprising news right before we boarded our flight to California for the race, and we process it in real-time on the episode. Hopefully the discussion and Megan's openness helps you deal with whatever big surprises you face in life!

Even though Megan didn't race, we cheered and crewed as ultra history was made at the race! This year's Canyons 100k had a performance for the ages from Katie Schide, plus a breakthrough from Rod Farvard, a selfless act from Drew Holmen, and so much more. We break down the dynamics, full of joy from seeing it all live! The big discussions revolve around training theory, fueling approaches, how cooling mattered even in temperate conditions, our complex thoughts on carb loading, hydration needs, and inspiration from the back of the pack.

And we brought a giddy, delirious energy to some awesome topics! Other topics: why we were so surprised by the big news, how Megan feels about it all, societal expectations in early pregnancy, Allie Ostrander's wonderful reflections on crying after races, continuous lactate monitors, the 776 Invitational's huge investment in women's track and what it might mean for the future of the sport, why it's bloodwork season and what people should test, the new ruling making non-competes unenforceable and how it's relevant for endurance sports, the TikTok ban, and hot takes.

Life comes at you fast. Maybe that's why we podcast fast! Knowing you all are along for the journey means so much to us. Into the great unknown we go! HUZZAH!

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203. Canyons 100k Pre-Race, Improving Power, Perils of Energy Availability Cycling, Wild Shoe Tech, and Crash Recovery! Apr 23, 2024

Show notes

We sipped on some of the finest, chalkiest electrolyte drink for this great episode! The main topic was gearing up for big events, spurred by Megan's upcoming adventure at the Canyons 100k. After the health issues, we were unsure whether we'd ever be able to have this sort of discussion on the podcast, and listeners have been there every step of the way. If there is any test, it's in training. Racing is a celebration. This episode celebrates the broken road to get to the race-day party!

This one was also packed with fun science! The main study helped debunk energy availability cycling, where athletes intentionally reduce energy availability in an attempt to improve power-to-weight ratio. Running is a power sport, and it's all about improving that power!

And we had tons of our favorite topics to discuss! Other topics: getting used to on-course nutrition options, the emotional process of getting to start lines, vibes-based earrings, David's up-and-down crash recovery, a new study on fasting metabolism, 3D-printed shoes winning the Boston Marathon, the new UTMB and HOKA partnership, an international doping scandal, a cool study on e-sports training, Dan Quinn's approach to coaching, a new menstrual cycle study, and hot takes.

Thank you for helping us with the courage to do scary things! We love you all! HUZZAH!

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