So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast

Latest Episodes:

Ep. 225: Debating social media content moderation Sep 26, 2024

Show notes

Can free speech and content moderation on social media coexist?

Jonathan Rauch and Renee DiResta discuss the complexities of content moderation on social media platforms. They explore how platforms balance free expression with the need to moderate harmful content and the consequences of censorship in a digital world.

Jonathan Rauch is a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and the author of "The Constitution of Knowledge: A Defense of Truth" and "Kindly Inquisitors: The New Attacks on Free Thought." Renee DiResta was the technical research manager at the Stanford Internet Observatory and contributed to the Election Integrity Partnership report and the Virality Project. Her new book is "Invisible Rulers: The People Who Turn Lies Into Reality."

READ THE TRANSCRIPT.

Timestamps:

00:00 Intro

03:14 Content moderation and free speech

12:33 The Election Integrity Partnership

18:43 What activity does the First Amendment not protect?

21:44 Backfire effect of moderation

26:01 The Virality Project

30:54 Misinformation over the past decade

37:33 Did Trump's Jan 6th speech meet the standard for incitement?

44:12 Double standards of content moderation

01:00:05 Jawboning

01:11:10 Outro

Show notes:

Election Integrity Partnership report (2021)

The Virality Project (2022)

Moody v. NetChoice and NetChoice v. Paxton (2024)

"This Place Rules" (2022)

Murthy v. Missouri (2024)

"Why Scholars Should Stop Studying 'Misinformation'," by Jacob N. Shapiro and Sean Norton (2024)

"FIRE Statement on Free Speech and Social Media"

Ep. 224: Ayn Rand, Objectivism, and free speech Sep 12, 2024

Show notes

What happens when philosopher Ayn Rand's theories meet free speech?

Tara Smith and Onkar Ghate of the Ayn Rand Institute explore Rand's Objectivist philosophy, its emphasis on reason and individual rights, and how it applies to contemporary free speech issues.

Smith and Onkar are contributors to a new book, "The First Amendment: Essays on the Imperative of Intellectual Freedom." Listeners may be particularly interested in their argument that John Stuart Mill, widely regarded as a free speech hero, actually opposed individual rights.

Tara Smith is a philosophy professor at the University of Texas at Austin and holds the Anthem Foundation Fellowship in the study of Objectivism. Onkar Ghate is a senior fellow at the Ayn Rand Institute, where he teaches undergraduate and graduate courses on Objectivism.

Timestamps:

00:00 Intro

02:51 What is Objectivism?

06:19 Where do Objectivism and free speech intersect?

09:07 Did Rand censor her rivals?

13:54 Government investigations of communists and Nazis

18:12 Brazilian Supreme Court banning X

20:50 Rand's USSR upbringing

24:39 Who was in Rand's "Collective" group?

35:12 What is jawboning?

40:01 The freedom to criticize on social media

46:02 Critiques of John Stuart Mill

59:49 Addressing a critique of FIRE

01:09:01 Outro

Transcript is HERE

Show notes:

"Safe Spaces and Trigger Warnings: Free Speech on Campus" (2016)
Letters of Ayn Rand (1995)
"Goddess of the Market: Ayn Rand and the American Right" (2009)
"Brandenburg v. Ohio" (1969)
"NRA v. Vullo" (2023)
"Murthy v. Missouri" (2024)
"Moody v. NetChoice" and "NetChoice v. Paxton" (2024)

Ep. 223: Teaching conservatism on a liberal college campus Aug 29, 2024

Show notes

Can a course on conservatism shake up the liberal status quo on campus?

Tufts University professor Eitan Hersh presents his unique class on American conservatism and its impact on campus free speech and open dialogue. He discusses the challenges and opportunities of teaching conservative thought in a predominantly liberal academic environment.

Eitan Hersh is a professor of political science. He earned his Ph.D. from Harvard University in 2011 and was a faculty member at Yale University from 2011-2017.

In March, professor Hersh's course on conservatism was profiled in Boston Magazine under the headline, "A Conservative Thought Experiment on a Liberal College Campus."

Timestamps

00:00 Intro

02:02 Prof. Hersh's personal political beliefs

03:47 Political diversity among faculty and students

05:14 Hersh's journey to academia

06:07 What does a conservatism course look like?

09:30 His colleagues' response to the course

10:29 The challenges of discussing controversial topics

13:28 FIRE's data on difficult campus topics

17:50 How have campus dynamics changed

19:42 Institutional neutrality

39:14 What are faculty concerned about?

42:18 What is Hersh expecting as students return to campus?

46:41 Outro

Transcript is HERE.

Ep. 222: John Stuart Mill's lasting impact on the Supreme Court Aug 15, 2024

Show notes

How has 19th-century English philosopher John Stuart Mill influenced America's conception of free speech and the First Amendment?

In their new book, "The Supreme Court and the Philosopher: How John Stuart Mill Shaped U.S. Free Speech Protections," co-authors Eric Kasper and Troy Kozma look at how the Supreme Court has increasingly aligned its interpretation of free expression with Mill's philosophy, as articulated in "On Liberty."

Eric Kasper is professor of political science at the University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire, where he serves as the director of the Menard Center for Constitutional Studies.

Troy Kozma is a professor of philosophy and the academic chair at the University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire - Barron County.

Timestamps

00:00 Intro

02:26 Book's origin

06:51 Who is John Stuart Mill?

10:09 What is the "harm principle"?

16:30 Early Supreme Court interpretation of the First Amendment

26:25 What was Justice Holmes' dissent in Abrams v. U.S.?

30:28 Why did Justice Brandeis join Holmes' dissents?

36:10 What are loyalty oaths?

40:36 Justice Black's nuanced view of the First Amendment

43:33 What were Mill's views on race and education?

50:42 Private beliefs vs. public service?

52:40 Commercial speech

55:51 Where do we stand today?

1:03:32 Outro

Transcript is HERE

Ep. 221: Section 230 co-author, Rep. Christopher Cox Aug 01, 2024

Show notes

Some argue that Section 230 allows the internet to flourish. Others argue it allows harmful content to flourish. Christopher Cox knows something about Section 230: He co-wrote it.

Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act is an American law passed in 1996 that shields websites from liability for content posted on their sites by users. What does Rep. Cox make of the law today? Rep. Cox was a 17-year member of the House of Representatives and is a former chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission.

Timestamps

0:00 Intro

2:43 Did Section 230 create the modern internet?

7:48 America's technological advancement

11:33 Section 230's support for good faith content moderation

18:00 User privacy and age verification?

25:37 Rep. Cox's early experiences with the internet

30:24 Did we need Section 230 in the first place?

37:51 Are there any changes Rep. Cox would make to Section 230 now?

42:40 How does AI impact content creation and moderation?

47:23 The future of Section 230

54:31 Closing thoughts

57:30 Outro

Show notes:

Transcript
Section 230 text
"The Twenty-Six Words that Created the Internet" by Jeff Kosseff
Cubby, Inc. v. CompuServe Inc. (S.D.N.Y. 1991)
Stratton Oakmont, Inc. v. Prodigy Services Co. (N.Y. Sup. Ct. 1995)
"Section 230: A Retrospective" by Chris Cox
Section 230: Legislative History (Electronic Frontier Foundation)

Ep. 220: Political violence and speech Jul 18, 2024

Show notes

Did overheated political rhetoric lead to the assassination attempt on former President Donald Trump?

On today's show we explore political violence: its history, its causes, and its relationship with free speech. Flemming Rose is a senior fellow at the Cato Institute. He previously served as foreign affairs editor and culture editor at the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten. In 2005, he was principally responsible for publishing the cartoons that initiated the Muhammad cartoons controversy.

Nadine Strossen is a professor emerita at New York Law School, former president of the ACLU, and a senior fellow at FIRE.

Jacob Mchangama is the founder and executive director of The Future of Free Speech. He is a research professor at Vanderbilt University and a senior fellow at FIRE.

Timestamps

0:00 Intro

2:45 Initial reactions to Trump assassination attempt

7:39 Can we blame political violence on rhetoric?

15:56 Weimar and Nazi Germany

26:05 Is the Constitution a "suicide pact"?

39:21 Is violence ever justified?

49:24 Censorship in the wake of tragedy and true threats

59:06 Closing thoughts

1:04:54 Outro

Show notes:

Episode transcript

"Freedom of expression and social conflict" by Christian Bjørnskov and Jacob Mchangama

FIRE's 2024 College Free Speech Rankings (featuring data on college student support for violence)

Recent court ruling in DeRay McKesson protest case

"The Tyranny of Silence" by Flemming Rose

"Free Speech: A History from Socrates to Social Media" by Jacob Mchangama

Ep. 219: The First Amendment at the Supreme Court Jul 03, 2024

Show notes

The Supreme Court term is over. We review its First Amendment cases. Joining the show are FIRE Chief Counsel Bob Corn-Revere, FIRE General Counsel Ronnie London, and Institute for Justice Deputy Litigation Director Robert McNamara.

Become a FIRE Member today and gain access to live monthly webinars where you can ask questions of FIRE staff. The next webinar is July 8 at 1 p.m. ET. We will take your questions about the Supreme Court term.

Show Notes:

Transcript

Timestamps

0:00 Intro

2:53 Moody v. NetChoice and NetChoice v. Paxton

31:02 NRA v. Vullo

46:57 Murthy v. Missouri

1:06:04 Gonzales v. Trevino

1:17:58 Vidal v. Elster

1:26:04 O'Connor-Ratcliff v. Garnier and Lindke v. Freed

1:34:00 Loper Bright Enterprises v. Raimondo (the Chevron deference case)

1:37:26 Free Speech Coalition v. Paxton (forthcoming SCOTUS case)

1:38:30 Outro

Ep. 218: A warning label on social media? Jun 25, 2024

Show notes

There is a movement afoot to restrict young people's access to social media and pornography.

Critics of social media and online porn argue that they can be harmful to minors, and states across the country are taking up the cause, considering laws that would impose age-verification, curfews, parental opt-ins, and other restrictions.

Meanwhile, critics of the critics argue that the evidence of harm isn't so conclusive and that many of the proposed restrictions violate core civil liberties such as privacy and free speech.

So, who's right?

Clare Morell is a senior policy analyst at the Ethics and Public Policy Center and the author of the forthcoming book, "The Tech Exit: A Manifesto for Freeing Our Kids." Ari Cohn is free speech counsel at TechFreedom, a technology think tank.

Timestamps

0:00 Intro

2:17 The alleged harms of social media

11:31 Just another technological moral panic?

25:49 How is internet access currently restricted for minors?

41:17 The age verification problem

1:00:27 Assessing the First Amendment problems

1:07:21 Voluntary measures parents can take

1:25:30 Outro

Shownotes

Transcript

"The Anxious Generation: How the Great Rewiring of Childhood Is Causing an Epidemic of Mental Illness" by Jonathan Haidt

"Surgeon General: Why I'm Calling for a Warning Label on Social Media Platforms" by Vivek H. Murthy

Ep. 217: 'Defending pornography' Jun 20, 2024

Show notes

It is said that censorship is the strongest drive in human nature — with sex being a weak second.

But what happens when these two primordial drives clash? Does censorship or sex win out?

Nadine Strossen is a professor emerita at New York Law School, a former president of the ACLU, and a senior fellow at FIRE. She is also the author of "Defending Pornography: Free Speech, Sex, and the Fight for Women's Rights." First released in 1995, the book was reissued this year with a new preface.

Mary Anne Franks is a law professor at George Washington University and the president and legislative and tech policy director of the Cyber Civil Rights Initiative. She is the author of "The Cult of the Constitution: Our Deadly Devotion to Guns and Free Speech" and the forthcoming "Fearless Speech: Breaking Free from the First Amendment."

Show Notes:

Transcript

Timestamps

0:00 Intro

2:17 Defining pornography

7:20 Is porn protected by the First Amendment?

11:10 Revenge porn

22:05 Origins of "Defending Pornography"

25:06 Andrea Dworkin and Catharine MacKinnon

29:20 Can porn be consensual?

35:02 Dworkin/MacKinnon model legislation

52:20 Porn in Canada

56:07 Is it possible to ban porn?

1:03:26 College professor's porn hobby

1:12:39 Outro

Ep. 216: Section 230 and online content moderation Jun 06, 2024

Show notes

Did 26 words from an American law passed in 1996 create the internet?

Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act says that interactive websites and applications cannot be held legally liable for the content posted on their sites by their users. Without the law, it's likely Facebook, Amazon, Reddit, Yelp, and X wouldn't exist — at least not in their current form. But some say the law shields large tech companies from liability for enabling, or even amplifying, harmful content.

On today's show, we discuss Section 230, recent efforts to reform it, and new proposals for content moderation on the internet.

Marshall Van Alstyne is a professor of information systems at Boston University.

Robert Corn-Revere is FIRE's chief counsel.

Timestamps

0:00 Intro 3:52 The origins of Section 230? 6:40 Section 230's "forgotten provision" 13:29 User vs. platform control over moderation 23:24 Harms allegedly enabled by Section 230 40:17 Solutions 46:03 Private market for moderation 1:02:42 Case study: Hunter Biden laptop story 1:09:19 "Duty of care" standard 1:17:49 The future of Section 230 1:20:35 Outro

Show Notes

- Show Transcript

- Hearing on a Legislative Proposal to Sunset Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act (May 22. 2024)

- "Platform Revolution" by Marshall Van Alstyne

- "The Mind of the Censor and the Eye of the Beholder" by Robert Corn-Revere

- "Protocols, Not Platforms: A Technological Approach to Free Speech" by Mike Masnick

- "Sunset of Section 230 Would Force Big Tech's Hand" By Cathy McMorris Rodgers and Frank Pallone Jr.

- "Buy This Legislation or We'll Kill the Internet" By Christopher Cox and Ron Wyden

- "Free Speech, Platforms & The Fake News Problem" (2021) by Marshall Van Alstyne

- "Free Speech and the Fake News Problem" (2023) by Marshall Van Alstyne

- "It's Time to Update Section 230" by Michael D. Smith and Marshall Van Alstyne

"Now It's Harvard Business Review Getting Section 230 Very, Very Wrong" by Mike Masnick