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Ep. 107 - Building Revenue Teams That Thrive in the Age of AI with Amy Weber - Part 2 Dec 28, 2025

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In Part 2 of this Selling the Cloud conversation, Amy Weber joins KK Anderson and Mark Petruzzi to go deeper into how modern revenue leaders should think about AI, outreach, hiring, and coaching. Amy challenges traditional sales motions like cold outreach and rigid playbooks, and explains how AI should be used to personalize engagement, free up seller time, and enable more meaningful one on one conversations.The discussion also dives into assessment driven hiring and coaching, unpacking why resumes are a poor predictor of success, how to identify true talent signals, and how leaders can reduce friction by understanding identity, motivation, and communication styles across their teams. This episode is a practical guide for CROs who want to build revenue teams that perform, scale, and adapt in a more human centered, AI enabled world.What You’ll Learn:Why cold outreach is losing effectiveness and what CROs should prioritize insteadHow AI can personalize messaging without removing the seller’s individual voiceThe right way to define ICPs based on engagement and impact, not volumeWhy playbooks should act as flexible frameworks, not rigid rulesHow assessment driven hiring reveals true talent signals beyond resumesKey differences between hunter, farmer, and CSM profiles and why misalignment hurts performanceHow leaders can reduce friction between managers and sellers through better coaching and communicationWhy understanding identity, emotional resonance, and motivation matters more than process aloneKey Topics:AI powered personalization in sales outreachICP refinement and engaged account strategiesFreeing up seller time for high value conversationsAssessment driven hiring and role fitCoaching frameworks for sales managers and leadersManaging conflict between sales leaders and individual contributorsIdentity based leadership and communication stylesPositive intelligence and managing saboteurs in high performing teamsGuest Spotlight: Amy WeberAmy Weber is a strategic advisor to growth stage and enterprise revenue teams and the founder of VEDA Sales Consulting. She specializes in aligning people, process, and purpose to drive measurable revenue outcomes. Amy works closely with CROs and executive teams to improve hiring, coaching, and leadership effectiveness using assessment driven insights and practical operating frameworks.🎧 Listen now and follow Selling the Cloud for more conversations on building modern, revenue focused GTM teams in the age of AI.KK Anderson (00:31)if I could kind of double click on that a little bit, what's one of your favorite starting points? Like if you're gonna recommend to a CRO, I know it's obviously where they wanna focus, but what are just some examples of where you would have them start first?Amy Weber (00:46)Yeah. So I think that of the first pieces of it is that, look, I don't think cold emails work anymore. I don't think cold outreach works anymore. think it's figure out your ICP who is already engaged and then how do you automate some outreach to them in a way that makes is impactful to them. So using AI tools to be able to take that outreach and instead of a ⁓ rep,doing what you're saying, making a thousand emails a week or a hundred calls, kind of automating that outreach, whether it's through, and maybe it's a multifaceted approach, right? Getting more information out on LinkedIn. One of the things that I hated when I worked for big companies was that they wanted, like they wanted to silence your individual voice and they wanted it all to be very static and documented. Well, then you're getting the same message over and over again.Mark Petruzzi (01:28)Hmm.Amy Weber (01:34)Using AI to take that static message, but to personalize it based upon who you're going after is a real tool and trick today. And so you're getting out in front of more people and you're getting your message out in more ways. The second part is, like I said, figuring out what your ICP is and what's impactful for them. And then leveraging those AI tools to kind of create a outreach that is not generic.and is not just cold, it's taking the people that you know today that you want to talk to and making it more important to them, you know, in that capacity. ⁓an understanding really kind of that the goal is to free up more time for them to meet with these individuals one-on-one. So automating the things that are getting your message out in a content personalized manner so that the AEs and leadership is getting freed up time so that they can actually engage one-on-one because look,The other thing I think is ridiculous, again, I may get in trouble for saying it, a playbook should just be a framework. If you think there's one answer to how to be successful in sales, you're going to fail. Because you have to understand the client and their business need, and not every need is the same. It doesn't matter if you're selling the same product.or the same service, it's how that product or service is going to impact that end user in a new way. And you can only do that if you actually get in front of them and understand what their business or challenge or issue is, how that solution is going to play.Mark Petruzzi (03:12)Great, well let's move to topic three, which is assessment-driven hiring and coaching. And again, something that's near and dear to AGS's heart and what we do, and we're learning a lot as we've gotten to know Amy ⁓ over the past couple months. So how should a CRO use assessment insights wisely and the most productively? Who do they need to assess?Amy Weber (03:35)Yes.Mark Petruzzi (03:36)what two to three signals matter for this role and how do those signals translate into the right interview questions and then most importantly, the coaching plan for that new hire.Amy Weber (03:48)Yeah, like I said, I'm a huge proponent of this because I do think we hire people or we have historically hired people based upon their resumes. That might be the worst possible thing you could ever do. Now, the resume might get you into the door to talk to the recruiter, to the team or get into the interview process, but it shouldn't be indicative of how successful you're going to be in this role. 85 % of millennials will tell you that they are in the wrong role, but they're afraid to change.And so they're just going to keep taking jobs because that's what they did in the past. It doesn't mean that they're in the right role. And scientifically, 1 % of your past success will dictate your future success. So when we do this, we assess people in three different ways. We assess them during the interview process. So you get through the initial screening to say, ⁓ I think they might be a good fit.What are their really, their talent signals? And you're not gonna figure that out just by interviewing them. Because so many people will interview someone and say, I think there'll be a good culture fit. I like them. I'd like to have a drink with them. Great. That means they're a good person. But are they, do they have the right skills to do the role? Right? I'm glad you like them, but are they going to fit the role? like, you know, talking about the hunter, a hunter needs to have a really high driveand desire to go out and be with people and meet people and drive impact and outcomes. Whereas a CSM needs to have a really high precision to say that I can execute on a vision and I can track and make sure that all of the steps are going, that need to be in place for this person to, their rollout to happen in the right timeframe or their,you know, we're engaging the right individuals from their team on a weekly or bi-weekly basis to ensure that everything is going as planned. Those are different people. so understanding those key characteristics, even your emotional resonance, how you deal ⁓ with emotions. And if somebody has, and we can test for that, if somebody has a really high ER and you put them in a hunting role,it might take them a long time if they lose a deal to deal with the fact that they lost that deal. If they have a lower ER, they're going to be like, okay, I lost it. I can move forward to the next piece. And then we customize through the tools that we work with the interview questions to really pull out those key characteristics and those key identity markers because they're different based upon what you're looking for. From there,Once you've hired the people and you've got your team, then you need to determine who your leader is and kind of what their core identity is and how they individually need to understand managing people. That's going to reduce the conflict. And we build out custom management plans for each of those individuals. So we say either here's your team, here's all your benefits. Here's how you should look at your team overarchingly. And then if they have specificissues with a certain individual, whether they're like, I don't feel like I'm getting the most out of them, or we've got some sort ofconflict for the use of a better word. How do I address this? Because I really want this person to stay and be successful. We build out specific plans for them in that regard.KK Anderson (06:58)Yeah. Well, and kind of where my head is going is around that conflict, like what you just said. Like there is, and even kind of pivoting more toward that coaching aspect of making sure that the new hire is successful. There's very often just natural friction, especially in the sales world, right? When you have sellers who are entrepreneurial,you get a lot of friction between sales managers and individual contributors. And like some things that come to mind are, a sales manager may, be insisting that you're multi-threading and talking to different stakeholders in a prospect where the individual contributor is like, no, I have a champion. I've got this under control. I don't want to go around them. So deal strategy, right. Or, or there might be, like communication style issues, right. Where.Amy Weber (07:38)Correct.KK Anderson (07:43)A manager is wanting to review the pipeline and have those laborious, sounds like a broken record meetings every single week. And the individual contributors like would rather just, you know, eat nails. And so like when you have, when you have this kind of friction, like what are, are some ways that you can, you know, that you help alleviate it? Like what's it, walk me through like what you would do.you know, trying to.Amy Weber (08:05)Yeah. So,like I said, number one, when I work with clients, I figure out, I do these assessments and I figure out kind of who the people are that we're working with and what their, what their identities are and then how those are impactful to each other. Right. Because you're right. Look, when you are a driver and you're going out and you've got maybe a manager that was really successful and they want you to do it the way they did it, you're going to have conflict because they have to understand that.that ⁓ they can give an outline or framework, but that if they are trying to say, mandating that you have to do it in a certain way, you're gonna probably lose some of your top performers because those top performers are going to, they thrive in chaos. They're going to figure out the best way to work. And they do maybe have that champion and understand the relationship better. It again is going back and looking at opportunities as individuals, not as⁓ just repeating the same process over and over again. So I figure that out and then I go in and figure out where the tension lies. Is the tension a communications issue? Is the tension a conflict of you've got two really strong opinions and so they're just butting heads? And then it's not so much about changing either one of them, but it's changing how they communicate with each other.It's changing the language. Honestly, what we talk about in business works in parenting, right? You can have two different children that are very different people and maybe how you communicate to one is going to be different than how you communicate to the other. The same is true in the workplace. And you have to think about it from that perspective. If you've got someone who does have a really high empathy level,and so that means they're going to take everything in more personally, then you have to address that problem or that conflict with them in a different way than somebody who has a really low one and you can say, hey, I don't like how you did that change, right? Because they're not gonna take it personal. So we go in and we try to figure out really each of those core components.and then create frameworks for those leaders and those executive leaders accordingly so that they know based upon their core how they should address the different people on their team. And like, I don't think that you should have a team of people who are just clones of yourself. I think that diversity is important, but it's understanding how to manage that diverse environment and where based upon that diversity.you may sometimes falter. We learn as much from our failures or maybe more than we do from our successes. And so if we fall down with somebody, we need to figure out how to pick it back up. And that's just educating ourselves on who we are and who those people are as well. I'm a huge proponent of positive intelligence. I don't know if you know anything about that. Positive intelligence, it's a book, it's been a course.And it says that all of us have ⁓ our saboteurs and, you know, high achiever. Everybody's got the judge and it's trying to figure out how you get to your sage. And that's what we try to coach people on is that it is okay to be hard charging, but understand that you need to take that pause before you just treat everybody the same way.understand who you're talking to before you make that comment. That works, by the way, with your clients as well.So it's just a framework and figuring out where to go and what it's signaling. And then like I said, you also may determine that you just have the wrong people in the wrong roles, be that the individual contributor or the leader.Mark Petruzzi (11:27)Yeah, very good stuff. Cool, all right, well let's move into our final segment here and that is our rapid fire. So real quickly, first product or service you ever sold.Amy Weber (11:38)long distance and you can put an asterisk there for anyone under a certain age to tell them what that means.Mark Petruzzi (11:42)Exactly.KK Anderson (11:43)Likelong distance phones, like services.Amy Weber (11:44)Yep,door to door to evaluate people's ⁓ long distance bill and sell them on a lower cost solution. It was hilarious and it was really good at it and it was probably I had no.Yes, long distance for businesses. It did.KK Anderson (12:03)It started you on your career in sales, that's for sure.Yeah. Okay. So who is a, like a chief revenue officer or a CEO that you love to follow?Amy Weber (12:11)I follow several, lots of them, and some people I've worked for in the past and other people. When I sit down and think about it, there's a few that come to mind. Like, think Mark Cuban is phenomenally interesting to listen to, just the way that he drives companies forward and as a CEO and his mindset and the fact that he is very open to giving his opinion. I'm going to mess up his name, but Satya Nadella at Microsoft, I think is really fascinating today because heHe has taken a very different approach. worked for Microsoft and trust me, he is a very different leader than the leaders I had when I was there, because I think he loo…

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Ep. 106 - Building Revenue Teams That Thrive in the Age of AI with Amy Weber - Part 1 Dec 16, 2025

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In this episode of Selling the Cloud, Mark and KK sit down with Amy Weber, founder of Vetta Sales Consulting and strategic advisor to GrowthStage and Enterprise revenue teams. Amy specializes in aligning people, process, and purpose so strategy translates into real performance. She shares why many revenue organizations stall not because of tools or plans, but because of role confusion, misaligned talent, and leadership gaps.Amy breaks down how to design roles that reflect reality, how to hire and coach based on true behavioral identity, and why companies must stop promoting top reps into leadership without assessing desire and capability. She also explains how AI can power a stronger customer experience by removing low value tasks and freeing sellers to focus on discovery, executive access, and relationship building.This conversation hits the core of modern revenue growth: the right people in the right roles, operating in a healthy, human selling system.What You’ll Learn:The three fastest tells that your people or role design are brokenHow to distinguish hunters, farmers, and CSMs without relying on personality stereotypesWhy top performers burn out in “Frankenstein” job descriptionsHow to test for core sales behaviors using identity based assessmentWhy leadership is not a reward and should not be given based on quota attainmentHow AI can support human selling by automating research, follow up, and content prepHow to create operating rhythms that ensure AI actually frees time, not adds more dashboardsKey Topics:Role design and talent fit for revenue teamsBehavioral identity vs personality in hiringMisaligned promotions and the manager IC divideWhy customer success is undervalued and misunderstoodModern client experience and relationship driven sellingPractical, tool agnostic ways to use AI for research and personalizationOperating cadence changes that make AI adoption realAvoiding analysis paralysis when implementing new technologiesGuest Spotlight: Amy WeberAmy Weber is the founder of Vetta Sales Consulting and an advisor to high growth revenue organizations. She helps CROs and CEOs fix the people's side of revenue through role clarity, talent fit, and leadership development. Her work replaces outdated activity goals with clear rhythms and systems that actually change behavior, increase productivity, and create healthier teams. Amy also advises organizations building AI for talent decisions.Resources and Mentions:Cisco sales story on customer experienceMedium content repurposing with LLMsTalent identity and psychometric assessmentsOperating rhythms for revenue teamsRelationship led selling frameworks🎧 Listen now and follow Selling the Cloud for more GTM insights from leaders driving the future of revenue. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.Mark Petruzzi (00:31)Welcome to Selling the Cloud podcast. Today we're joined by Amy Weber, a strategic advisor to GrowthState, Stage and Enterprise Revenue teams and the founder of VEDA Sales Consulting. Amy's work centers on aligning people, process and purpose. So strategy turns into the most powerful performance. She's known for helping CROs fix the people side of revenue, writing roles that match reality, hiring for fit.not just overall pedigree, and coaching managers to run simple weekly systems that actually change behavior and drive the highest level of productivity. Amy Kevin Lee serves as a strategic advisor to organizations building useful AI for people decisions. And she's led transformations that replaced the old fashioned ad hoc activity goals with clear operating rhythms.This allows there to be a freeing up of more human time for discovery, executive access, and relationship building. Her lens is tool agnostic and outcomes first. What should change on Monday morning and how do we start measuring it? We'll cover three topics today. People and with the focus on them being greater than tools, roles, fit, and real leadership.Why growth stalls when the wrong people sit in the wrong roles, and how leaders create clarity and accountability. AI plus a strong experience culture, freeing time for human selling, using AI to take low value work off the team's plate so sellers could spend more time with customers, and assessment-driven hiring and coaching, really tool agnostic but practical ways to use talentdata to hire coach and fix manager IC friction without turning it into a tech commercial. So most people who know us and are on this ⁓ podcast with us every week know that's all things that are near and dear to KK and my heart and to what we do at AGS as well. So in another way, we're bringing an opportunity to get a...a different perspective or another perspective, but I think we're going to agree on a lot of things here based on the stuff we know about Amy already. So Amy, thank you so much for joining us and welcome to Selling the Cloud.Amy Weber (02:43)Thank you both. really appreciate it and I'm looking forward to the conversation today.Mark Petruzzi (02:46)Excellent. Cool. So first question, lots of teams have the right strategy and plenty of software, but the people role fit isn't right and results off install. As a CRO, what are the three fastest tells that role design or fit is the real problem and that it's not the plan or the overall tech as well?Amy Weber (03:04)Yeah, it's great because everybody steps back and they're like, what tool can I put in place? What new playbook can I roll out? What's our strategy? But they forget about the fact that the number one thing that they need to determine is do we have the right people in place and are we managing them correctly? So number one is, are your top performers miserable? Are they out there driving sales, but they are updating their LinkedIn? They're telling you that they're unhappy. They show up and they are on Monday mornings.you can just see that the energy is drained out of them. Because they're driven individuals, they're going to go out and they're high achievers, they're going to go focus on success, but you can just see that they're deflated. So number one, top performers are just absolutely miserable. You the second thing I see is that you see the same mistakes over and over again. You're providing individual or team coaching. You're giving a...guidance, you're rolling the playbook out, but you're seeing that the mistakes are just compounding. That's just repeating themselves. And then really the third one is we're promoting people incorrectly. So promotions are causing problems. I tell people that leadership is not a reward, it's a responsibility. So we're taking top sales performers. We're like, oh my God, they killed it. They were 300 % of their number again, and they've made club every year. So we're going to make them the manager.a director. And they may be a phenomenal sales individual, but they have both not the desire nor the actual skills to lead a team. And that desire component is really important. You could be the best sales rep in the world, but really not have the desire to want to manage, train, create empathy, you know, in other situations. So for me, those are the three glaring ones that I see that when I go into organizations, I'm like,They say we can't grow or we're stagnant or we've got a lot of they say culture problems. It's it's not culture. It's people you people problemsKK Anderson (04:56)That's so interesting. what we see with our clients and sales organizations is that the quote unquote job description for the sales roles, I mean, they're conflicting. You've got this mandate to go out and hunt and prospect and build new business, must hunt. And yet they need to be also an account manager and running projects and programs and keeping the relationship of the...keeping everybody happy, right? And then, you know, some of them are also part-time analysts. And so it's just like a lot of conflicting roles. And I think that probably leads to what you described with that burnout almost, right?Amy Weber (05:37)Exactly.I call those Frankenstein job descriptions because they're like, I want a self-starter who's a good collaborator. And I'm like, what? You know, I need somebody who's going to really go out and drive revenue and has the executive relationship that's good at doing the research. OK, well.KK Anderson (05:41)Yes.Mark Petruzzi (05:46)Ha!Amy Weber (05:54)They're just, they're putting together these, what they think the requirements are and they really need to hire for the key components of what they're looking for. A hunter role is different than a farmer role. A customer success manager, and sadly we see that get cut from companies all the time. It is cheaper to maintain a good client than it is to find a new one. And I could repeat that over and over again, but people don't understand it. And they're like, well, they,Accounting executives as Hunter can be the CSM as well. You know what? They probably don't have the right skills because a good CSM is going to be somebody who really wants to be a collaborator, can hide behind the scenes, is very detail oriented, likes to follow a process, right? A good salesperson thrives in chaos. There's somebody who goes out and can just drive opportunities because they're listening to the business needs.and they can kind of pivot and determine how to pitch the right solution, but they're not following a step one, step two, step three mentality that a good CSM really needs to do. That's why I don't think, and I get in trouble all the time, and I'm going to say it and just throw it out there. Most SDRs are not salespeople and should not report to sales. SDRs are operations people. They are good at following a script and setting an appointment, but they're not doing the key coreKK Anderson (06:53)Right.Amy Weber (07:10)attributes of sales, is listening to the business problem and creating a solution.KK Anderson (07:14)Right. So I follow up on that real quick though. So once we get those kind of roles rewritten and we figure out like what are the real core behaviors as you said, that that job demands, do you have any tricks on how to like test for those behaviors in interviews and specifically, know, a hunter, right? It's a very hard role to hire for. And they may think, for example, thatMark Petruzzi (07:15)Great.KK Anderson (07:38)because this person is an extrovert that they're gonna be really good at picking up the phone and making connections and calling people, not necessarily true. So talk to our audience, if you will, a little bit about how do you like kind test for behaviors.Amy Weber (07:50)soI actually do test and I leverage psychometric analysis tools in that regard to really determine people's core identities. So the irony is this, look, I've been in these roles 30 plus years now, which I like to tell people that means I was 12 when I started because I sadly do not want to acknowledge how much older I've gotten. But ⁓ we took this personality test from the time I was in college.KK Anderson (08:07)That's right. You were.Amy Weber (08:16)and your personality changes as you grow and as you meet new people and things, but your core identity doesn't. So somebody who is a self-starter should really have a high drive of influence. And there are specific questions that you can ask during an interview and or a promotion stage and or as a sales leader to determine if they have that true drive, right? If somebody is saying, talking about the influence that they have or that theythat they've had in a deal or with a specific executive, you know that they're a high influence type individual ⁓ versus someone who says, work really well and I like when people bring ideas and I like to brainstorm those and I like to work in a group to determine that. That is not somebody who's going to go out and be impactful from an influence perspective. They're going to be good at working behind the scenes. Someone who's a good influence person is going to kind ofbe a strategic thinker and then you need those people with the lower influence to implement that strategic vision. The same is true on like, I don't care if they're an introvert or an extrovert. Some of my favorite people I know are incredible introverts that can turn on that extroversion because they're passionate about the solution or the product or the service that they're providing. But once they've done that, then they...they'd master that Irish goodbye, they can just leave. They don't like that small talk or that networking where, it doesn't matter. You don't have to be that extrovert, but there are, there are solutions, there are tests that you can take that really get to the core of who you are. And then there are interview questions that we coach people on asking to really understand kind of where they are from a influence, sociability, consistency and precision perspective.Mark Petruzzi (09:35)Ha ha.Amy Weber (09:56)to model out who makes sense in these different roles. Like I said, I had a young lady who worked for me. She was fabulous. And her previous leader was like, I would fire her. And I'm like, okay. So I interviewed her and when I was bringing her onto the team and I laughed because they had her a ⁓ hunting role. She was a farmer. She was very precise. She was very good at maintaining clients and getting them to buy new products.She did not like the aspect of going out and building new relationships every day. She wanted to take a relationship and grow it. That is a farmer versus a hunter. And you have to understand as a company, what are you really looking for and where are you putting those people? And then coaching them and managing them per their identities versus everybody's the same.Mark Petruzzi (10:40)Amy, those are all great insights and I'm going to bring us back to a point you made earlier where you were saying how, there's all these companies that are cutting customer success and the value and the cost of driving a new deal, finding a new one, hunting a new one versus the concept of just, you know, keeping clients, keeping them happy, keeping them expanding.I've always, I am always saying that to my clients as well. And there's a couple thoughts I have behind that. And in the first book that I wrote, Selling the Cloud, I have a whole chapter around how in general, I believe women are better sales reps and sales leaders than men on average. That's just the nurturing.Amy Weber (11:07)Mm-hmm.Mark Petruzzi (11:25)perspective, the empathy connection, all those things are so valuable. Even grit, I think women have more grit on average than most men I know, including myself. So with that in mind, this concept of like hunting being more valuable than farming or customer success is something I fight about every day. And I think it's a bit of a machismo type of mindset that we all know.most CROs or sales leaders over the last 20, 30 years are men, not women. And luckily and thankfully, that's changing. But when we look at that concept, it all kind of comes down, guess, this. Nobody celebrates the person who comes back with a, a bucket of fruit or nuts and something they just cultivated and brought back into a village.but the person who has a deer or some other animal on their shoulders and they're carrying it back, they get a big celebration when that happens. So how do you think you change that mindset when it really comes down to it? How do you make companies just understand that it doesn't matter. A dollar of revenue is a dollar of revenue.Amy Weber (12:34)Yeah, you know, I've got a sp…

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Ep. 105 - Turning Personal Networks Into Pipeline: Inside the Relationship Intelligence Era with Drew Sechrist - Part 2 Dec 07, 2025

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In this episode of Selling the Cloud, Drew Sechrist, CEO and co-founder of Connect the Dots and longtime Salesforce veteran, joins Mark Petruzzi and KK Anderson to unpack what it really means to build a relationship intelligence layer that changes how your team goes to market.Drew shares why his own career win stories at Salesforce led him to build Connect the Dots, and how mapping real relationship strength can turn stalled enterprise deals into closed revenue. He breaks down the nuance of activating networks at scale, aligning incentives around introductions, and embedding relationship data directly into the existing workflow so new processes do not die on the vine. From Monday pipeline reviews to executive access and stuck late stage opportunities, Drew explains how the best revenue teams treat relationship intelligence like the air they breathe.What You’ll Learn:Relationship Intelligence Fundamentals: What it really means to build a relationship intelligence layer and why it is a different go to market motion than cold outbound.Incentives and Activation: Why simply seeing who knows whom is only half the game and how incentive alignment, compensation, and context determine whether relationships actually get activated.Workflow, Not Side Quest: Practical ways to embed relationship data in tools like Salesforce, Slack, and email so managers naturally coach around it in pipeline reviews.From Story to Playbook: How one trusted introduction at Salesforce unlocked a seven figure deal and how that kind of magic can be turned into a repeatable team playbook.Modern Deal Strategy: How to use relationship maps and heat maps to unblock late stage deals stuck with finance, legal, or executive signoff instead of just hoping the contract gets approved.Key Topics:Building a relationship intelligence layer for GTM and revenue teamsThe nuance of relationship activation and incentive alignmentWhere relationship intelligence should live in the RevOps and sales tech stackUsing Salesforce embedded views, alerts, and APIs instead of forcing new UI and heavy change managementDesigning Monday pipeline reviews that start with “who do we know” and “have we connected the dots”Why LinkedIn connections alone are noisy and how signal based relationship scoring changes the gameMoving from manual “who knows who” exercises to scalable, AI powered relationship mappingGuest Spotlight: Drew SechristDrew Sechrist is the CEO and co founder of Connect the Dots and a former Salesforce executive who rose through the ranks during the company’s hyper growth era. His experience closing large, relationship driven enterprise deals at Salesforce inspired him to build a platform that operationalizes the power of real networks for modern revenue teams. Today, Drew helps companies turn hidden relationship capital into measurable improvements in win rates, cycle times, and deal size.Resources and Mentions:Company: Connect the DotsConcept: Relationship intelligence and relationship heat maps for GTMBook: The Tipping Point by Malcolm GladwellPlatform Ecosystem: Salesforce, Slack, email, and RevOps systems as primary surfaces for relationship data🎧 Listen now and follow Selling the Cloud for more GTM, sales leadership, and AI driven revenue insights from leading voices in enterprise growth. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.KK Anderson (00:31)And this really feeds into our second topic, which is around building that kind of relationship intelligence layer. What you've been describing, right? That is, it really is a different approach to like, to go into market. And so like, and if you think about like, let's say we do, you do this 90 day plan, it's working, like your team is,show this team that you're piloting this with is showing success. You build kind of the playbook and the process for how you could repeat it or scale it. Does this become something then that your managers start coaching? Does your pipeline meeting sound differently? What happens then?Drew Sechrist (01:08)Absolutely. So do anything except use our network to go to market. That's it. That's all we do. I can't actually say it's entirely true. It's like we do some events. We'll go out. I was at Dreamforce last week. We hosted the Salesforce alumni reunion. So we do things like that. But that's also kind of relationship based as well. But we don't do anything else. So we're kind of like this purist in this new motion.So the answer is absolutely yes. But I will say we don't have it all figured out yet. We have some of it figured out. The challenge, think, is really like.The challenge is a lot about protocol. Protocol and aligning incentives for everybody. Just because you can see everybody that knows everybody in the world and how well. Just imagine there's some magic way for you to see everybody that we collectively as a company know and all the people that they know and how well they know them so that we could say, great, Mark's got this really strong, looks like he's got a strong relationship with the CEO of this.Fortune 500 companies, let's leverage Mark to get to that person. How do you do that? Like it depends on, there's a lot of nuance. Who is Mark? Is Mark one of our senior executives? Is Mark an investor? Is he an advisor? Is he just a friend from the gym? Is he my neighbor? What are his incentives aligned with us? Is he a customer of ours? You know, like all of this.those things play into the, how do we activate Mark's relationship with this person? Just because we can see that it exists. That's, that's like, call it 50 % of game. But then the other 50 % of game is how do we actually activate this in a way that Mark feels good about that's going to be effective. That's going to, know, he's going to facilitate the introduction. one of the big challenges I think on this is like, the incentive alignment thing, like, let's just talk about compensation here.Let's talk about compensation for a moment, if I can take it that direction. If you really want to unlock the network, then everybody's got to be compensated somehow. Now, I don't want to be too capitalistic about this. I don't want to be too capitalistic because many moons ago when I was starting my career at Salesforce, it was around that time.I read Malcolm Gladwell's The Tipping Point. you've read it, KK. Mark, have you read that? Yeah. So deep in our brains, right? And I definitely identify it as a connector, even at that young age. And I was like, I'm a connector, and I love this. And so no surprise that years later, I started Connect the Dots. And I do make connections for,Mark Petruzzi (03:09)I certainly have,Drew Sechrist (03:25)Many like Matt, vast majority of the connections that I facilitate in my life are not, I'm not expecting any kind of, know, compensation for that. let's say certainly not any monetary compensation. might like, would, I might like, Hey, thanks a lot, Drew. That was really nice. You helped me out a lot here by introducing me to this person. I like that. makes me feel good. So.But if you want to do this at scale, you got to figure out like, what is the compensation that everybody's in the network is going to have? and it could be straight up, just, you feel good doing it. Like I'm a connector and I do feel good doing it. KK, if you wanted to get to get to somebody, let's say, totally random idea. Like you're, you're going to go to Dublin and that came up and you're like, I really wish I knew great.whatever pubs in this little town outside of Dublin, cause that's where I'm going to be. like, you know what? know somebody from that town. Let me introduce you to, I'd feel good. You go to some cool pub and have a great time. And that person that I connected you to probably would be like, yeah, that's kind of neat. Somebody's going to my town. And so my compensation on that one is, you know, it's, basically, it's a dopamine hit. I feel good that I've connected to people and their lives are going to be a little bit better because of that connection. But KK, if you hit me up like.40 times a day, every day for introductions to various people, for various reasons. At some point I'll break and I'll be like, KK, I got a day job, I'm sorry. You know, like I can't help you with, you know, 40 introductions a day. Now, if you hit me up with 40 at and say, Drew, I'd like you to make 40 introductions a day for me. And these are the introductions I'd like you to make. And it's good for the person that you introduced me to.And by the way, Drew, for every introduction that you make, I'm going to give you $10,000. I'd be like, hmm, all right, KK, you only want 40 a day? you like 50 a day? Would like 60 a day? I'll see what I can do. Right? So incentive alignment and compensation are important here, it's so nuanced. mean, think about it. Like, you're getting paid to make an introduction to somebody, you're a friend. That doesn't feel...KK Anderson (04:58)Yeah, or 400. Yeah.Mark Petruzzi (04:59)YeahDrew Sechrist (05:14)Right? Does it? You know, it feels, that feels wrong. Like if, he's, if KK you say, Hey, Drew, could you introduce me to one of your friends who is a good prospect for us? And if they buy, or even if they don't buy, I'm going to give you a thousand dollars or something like that. then I don't know. just, it feels weird. that feels weird. Now, if I were an advisor for your company, KK, you're CEO of company andYou say, Drew, it looks like you've got a great network into the companies that we want to sell to. would you be an advisor for us? We're going give you some equity and we'd like some advice from you. We'd like you to open some doors for us so that we can get in and sell our product and get feedback and grow and become a successful customer. That doesn't feel bad in the same way as getting paid with cash, right? so there's a ton of nuance here.Candidly, we don't have it all figured out yet. I think this is like this whole space is taking shape right now. It's like there are tools that are making it possible to leverage networks at scale like never before, but you got to figure out how to, how to activate those relationships and make everybody feel good about it and also incentivize.KK Anderson (06:05)Yeah.What's old is new. Relationships are old as time and here we are, right?Drew Sechrist (06:14)Mm.Mark Petruzzi (06:17)Yeah, so that makes perfect sense. this is, I love where this discussion is going. So let's just analyze a little bit. So everything we're talking about for most companies is a new process. And the adoption of new processes, they typically die if you can't get it into the core workflow. So how do you build this in? Like where should relationship intelligence live in the overallstack and the overall rev-up and what you're doing there so that you don't need to drive any heavy change management in this process. So what's the latest weight setup that still moves the needle that you work with your clients on?Drew Sechrist (06:54)Yeah.Yeah, that's a great question. I think it should be kind of like the air you breathe. It's everywhere. So whenever you're in any place that you would need this information, it should just be there and you shouldn't have to go look for it. So for example, our customers have access to us inside of Salesforce. Not everybody wants to use Salesforce, if you're using Salesforce, then you're looking at an account or contact. We have ourrelationship, your relationship data visible to you inside of Salesforce. So as you're doing your account planning, now sales managers are saying, okay, did we connect the dots? Literally, they'll say that and they'll look and be like, well, why didn't we use this contact here? So we have our board member knows the CMO has a strong relationship with the CMO at this company. Have we connected the dots there yet? And if the answer is no, then you just click the button and you initiate that request.And it gets routed through, however, it should get routed, it might get routed through your CEO to, the CMO of that company or whatever. so that's, that's one, other places that people work or Slack, either email, getting notified via email that you've got a relationship that you should be leveraging for a deal that you're working on. We do that. we also, we're launching an API shortly where your rev ops team will be able to put the data anywhere that you want.whatever that is, if you have a list in sales law for outreach or you've got some other single pane of glass that is the thing that you look at to figure out what's your next action with your target accounts, ConnectedOuts can just be one of the pieces of data that's on there that says, hey, don't be stupid here. Don't try to go cold into this account. You can get a direct introduction fromYou know your VP of finance who knows their CFO. And so just do that initiate that. So I think that the best way is not to have any new UI. We do have a UI that's no are tool as a UI, but I think the best way to do this is just not have any UI at all and just be where be wherever the users are already working.KK Anderson (08:48)makes a lot of sense and that sounds, that would be amazing, right? Gosh, this time has flown by so fast. I'm gonna move us along to the third topic and I'm afraid we're gonna run out of time. But let's talk about stories and playbooks and how we can turn some of these connections into outcomes. so I love a little story time. So like what jumps right out at you when you think about kind of a,a story where a relationship, changed the game and because of a relationship, because of a connection, then boom, an intro was made, like some magic happened and like what changed because of that? Cycle time, win rate, deal size, like give me a story.Drew Sechrist (09:27)Yeah. one story, one story was, from, early days at Salesforce we hired in, there's a really important relationship I made in my life was with my new boss who came in then was named Jim Steele. So that was probably 2004, if I recall correctly. And I just saw Jim at Dreamforce this week, caught up a little bit. Mark made Jim interview with a lot of people before Mark Benioff hired Jim Steele.And I was one of those people. so I love Jim at that point. I love Jim today. it was such a great decision to hire him. So I gave him, thumbs up, to Mark and then Jim, saw later in the hallways, like drew, I you gave me the thumbs up. Thanks so much. What can I do to repay you? And I was like, Jim, I'm so glad you asked that. And then I pulled up a, like, here's my list of accounts. These are my, this is my territory. Who do you know at these accounts?Mark Petruzzi (09:55)Mm.ThankDrew Sechrist (10:11)That's how you can repay me. And, we found, I won't name the names, but we found there's a large semiconductor company there that he had a friend at who was a very senior executive C level exec. and he's like, I know this guy right here. and I said, great, let's see if we can get in. So Jim picked up the phone, called him and we were in that senior executive's office the next week. Now I had been trying to crack into that account.I don't know, for the years, I don't know, for some long period of time, completely unsuccessfully. And then here we are sitting in the C-level executive's office, you down in the peninsula in San Francisco. And, and then, they had a conversation and I was kind of flying the wall and, know, I, basically was the erran…

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Ep. 104 - Turning Personal Networks Into Pipeline: Inside the Relationship Intelligence Era with Drew Sechrist - Part 1 Nov 30, 2025

Show notes

In this episode of Selling the Cloud, Mark Petruzzi and KK Anderson sit down with Drew Sechrist, CEO and co founder of Connect The Dots and longtime Salesforce veteran, to unpack why traditional ABM motions and high volume outbound are running out of gas and what comes next. Drew shares how relationship intelligence, warm introductions, and network aware playbooks are giving revenue teams a durable performance edge over cold, volume driven tactics.

Drawing from his experience leading enterprise teams at Salesforce and now building Connect The Dots, Drew explains how to operationalize real relationships at scale, how to reimagine the role of the account executive as CEO of the territory, and why senior sellers should lead the shift from spray and pray to relationship driven go to market.

What You’ll Learn:

• Why ABM has reached peak utility and where it still fits in a modern go to market motion

• How relationship intelligence and warm paths consistently outperform cold outbound and one to many ABM

• Why the best enterprise sellers behave like CEOs of their territories and how that model broke during the growth at all costs era

• How to design KPIs that expose when your current motion is tapped out and ready for a relationship first rethink

• A practical 90 day approach to shifting from volume based SDR motions to relationship driven plays led by senior sellers

Key Topics:

• The limits of high volume ABM and cold outbound as primary growth levers

• Mapping networks, scoring relationship strength, and surfacing warm paths into target accounts

• Dreamforce era relationship building and how those habits still drive enterprise deals

• The return of the account executive as CEO of the territory, not just a cog in the sales tech machine

• Using AI and systems like Connect The Dots to make relationship based selling scalable and measurable

• Reweighting your go to market mix across ABM, intent, and relationships instead of relying on mass spray and pray

• How SDRs evolve into behind the scenes orchestrators of introductions, routing requests through executives and board members without breaking trust

Guest Spotlight: Drew Sechrist

Drew Sechrist is the CEO and co founder of Connect The Dots, a relationship intelligence platform that helps go to market teams tap into the power of real relationships at scale. Before founding Connect The Dots, Drew spent more than a decade at Salesforce during its hyper growth era, rising from one of the first account executives to leading enterprise sales teams. His career has been built on leveraging networks, warm introductions, and trusted relationships to win complex, high value deals.

Resources and Mentions:

• Company: Connect The Dots

• Event: Dreamforce

• Topics discussed: account executives as CEOs of their territories, relationship driven GTM, shifting off pure volume motions

🎧 Listen now and follow Selling the Cloud for more conversations on modern go to market, revenue leadership, and the future of relationship driven selling in an AI enabled world. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.

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Ep. 103 - Operationalizing Process and AI for Real Sales Impact with Paul Fuller - Part 2 Nov 25, 2025

Show notes

In this episode of Selling the Cloud, Paul Fuller, Chief Revenue Officer at Membrain, joins KK Anderson and Mark Petruzzi for a compelling conversation on how modern sales leaders can use AI to coach more effectively, eliminate wasteful pipeline rituals, and build real self-leadership within their teams.Paul outlines how high-performing sales managers are shifting from performative metrics to meaningful enablement; using AI to flag risk, generate insights, and equip reps to close complex deals. He also shares how sales leaders can establish operating rhythms, drive accountability, and lead with trust; all while reporting to the board with metrics that prove the business value of relationships.What You’ll Learn:AI-Enhanced Coaching: How to pair red/yellow flag systems with AI insights to pinpoint stalled deals and coach with precisioCadence of Accountability: How to replace unproductive pipeline calls with actionable, written commitments that build trust and executionManager Enablement: Why coaching the coach is the next evolution in sales performance systemsBoard-Ready Metrics: Which numbers matter most to prove relationships and strategic selling actually move the needlePractical AI Use Cases: Where AI drives effectiveness now (e.g., summarization, follow-up, personalization), and where it still falls shortKey Topics:Operationalizing AI in pipeline reviews and deal strategyMoving from activity tracking to outcome coachingSystems for continuous manager developmentReal intelligence vs. performative sales theaterCRO priorities in the AI era: focus, trust, proofEnabling full-cycle reps with better content, follow-up, and insightsMeasuring relationship impact: customer engagement, strategic touches, lifetime valueGuest Spotlight: Paul FullerPaul Fuller is Chief Revenue Officer at Membrain, where he brings structure, strategy, and coaching to complex B2B sales organizations. A strong advocate for elevating leadership and execution within sales teams, Paul focuses on embedding process, insights, and AI into daily workflows to help reps and managers improve continuously.Resources & Mentions:• Company: Membrain• Book Recommendations:– The Greatest Sales Question Ever Asked by Brent Long– A Mind for Sales by Mark Hunter– The Speed of Trust by Stephen M.R. Covey– Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis• Sales leader to follow: Matt Green (Sales Assembly)🎧 Listen now and follow Selling the Cloud for more real conversations with revenue leaders building tomorrow’s go-to-market playbooks.KK Anderson (00:31)So building on that, Paul, from a sales manager's perspective, let's say they're in a coaching call with the rep and there's deal after deal that's stalled. And we know that stalled deals kill quarters, right? And so what are some ways you see top sales leaders leveraging AI?or AI signals, to help coach through some of those common challenges that sellers have.Paul Fuller (00:55)we personally, do it by, coaches that managers that use our system and, are doing, but we have a really robust flagging system and a really robust ability to, look at a pipeline by a variety of factors.then you can start to layer the AI in top of it. So we've built a flagging system for years. So something has been in stage more than 15 days. Let's check this out. Let's understand it. Let's, let's figure out and based on the profile of the customer and the actions that we've taken, red, yellow, red, yellow, let's categorize those flags. where you start to get into the AI stuff is that AI can then start to deliver based on that framework, very specific things based onto other reps that have been successful and move things based on situations that have happened across the organization and based on that rep behavior itself. If you do things like tie in, tie in recordings and fathom and gong and those types of things. So you can do some really cool work there. What I found is it's best for the flags and the AI to bring up suggestions to a manager saying, Hey, here is threethree or four deals ⁓ that are specifically, let's talk these through, right? Bring up those flags. I do believe a hundred percent that it is on the manager then to dive in into those deals, understand them and human to human get that coaching on what are the barriers that are, are specifically in the way and how we're then improving.the skills, the who and the who of what we want to be and how we want to act. How are we improving that on ongoing basis? So we have a platform called Elevate within our tool set that is a, it's a cadence to coaching and cadence rhythm platform. So it ensures that we're doing the right work. we can set goals in that platform. It can bring insights from our pipeline. It can flag deals that we need to discuss.But if we don't actually have the meeting, I'm still a huge fan of that. Like we have to have those one-on-ones and dive in, discover and understand. And so for the sales manager, the most important thing data is about half of it. The other half of it as a sales manager is how am I improving as a leader in my ability to coach these deals? And they need to have a cadence on those. need to understand howCause information is not the, we need the information and we need to have it highlighted. But if there's not a rhythm by which you're continuing to improve your coaching skills and ability and dive into deals and those types of things, the sales manager, doesn't matter how much information I give them. because the sales manager in that, that is coaching a lot of times, we'll just do the same things over and over again. It's a man.why aren't you closing this? I would have closed it. that's a lot of the coaching that happened that happens today. Well, I would have done this. And that doesn't that doesn't cut it. So I think that that layer of those sales managers and those coaches really need to work on that skill.Mark Petruzzi (03:44)Right on. So Paul, let's kind of anchor this maybe around like a mini cadence. So if we're reviewing pipeline for 12 weeks at a client, you if you're doing it within your CRO role for your own company, what are the three weekly review items and the three actions that you'd mandate and who owns each and when do they need to be done?which are the ones that really drive behavior to become sticky?Paul Fuller (04:14)That's a great question. Do I have to limit it to three?Mark Petruzzi (04:16)You do not.Paul Fuller (04:18)All right. Well, again, I can only go from my experience.And, this is weird because we've been talking so much about, the who and the, core of the people that we need to become and those types of things. and then the processes, and I am going to give you an answer that I think is completely outside of that. and it's a very simple answer that I think doesn't happen, across just about everyone.I've seen there needs to be and I don't care what system you're using. don't care if you're using Excel. I don't care if you're using a membrane. I don't care if you're using a pad and paper, but on a weekly basis, every rep and every manager of that rep needs to have a full understanding and picture of an updated pipeline and the deals in those pipeline in that pipeline.And, again, our system makes this easy. makes it much more, much easier and gives the ability to do it, and flags and pulls information out of it and all that stuff. But that habit in and of itself on a weekly basis for a sales manager, is something that is skipped so often and it changes everything. second.is the cadence of, if you have that, then you can effectively coach and have a cadence and rhythm to that. And I call it a cadence of accountability. The cadence of accountability is just as important to the sales manager as it is to the sales person, as it is to the VP of sales, as it is to the CEO, right? It is.What are we committing to this week that we're going to get done for each other? And that goes back. It does go back to that who like self leadership and the ability to be a self leader, but that cadence of accountability is critical and it needs to be written down. It just, it just has to, Hey rep one, I'm a sales manager. I am going to dive in and review through your accounts and I'm going to do this for you.Okay, and I'll do it by Friday or I'll do it by next Tuesday.Do you know how you're in sales? So you know this and you're in leadership and coaching and you know this is that how frequently that gets missed and pushed to the side and in favor of busyness is, is crushing. It's crushing to a sales team. It's crushing to a sales leader and it's crushing to a forecast ultimately. All right. And the third thing that a sales, I would say that's incredibly, incredibly important.And again, we, going back to the basis, you could do this on a pad and paper is, what are the things that I am accountable to my prospects and customers for this week? My top five, right? And in, and I might, I'm going to complete those. I think just those three things, absolutely.It's why I harp so much on, the self leadership and I, what I call the real intelligence, the leadership, the service, the way if I have accepted and we've defined that together, those three things don't become necessarily easier, but they become something that I will commit to, as, a person and as a manager and as a sales team member. and they become so, so important. And so again,Our systems, everything is a glorified system around that, quite frankly, but those things are so incredibly important to make an impact and to move forward together, lead well, serve well, and to really ⁓ drive performance.Mark Petruzzi (07:28)Yeah, and you know what's really cool, Paul, about what you just walked us through is you really define what the items that are really important in the selling process as compared to things that we have done for so long. For example, we've relied on a CRM and we all know a CRM doesn't do anything to make a sales rep more effective or even more productive.And so, okay, so we spent a lot of time with a CRM process and we all know that most of the data is just really not good within CRM systems. That's a whole nother discussion for another time. But if you look at the, even things like a pipeline, what amazes me is some of the clients that I work with, when I first get in there, they love that weekly pipeline meeting and it can be an hour, many of them are an hour and a half.A few of them I've seen are two hours by the time they're done every week, just sharing all this mumbo jumbo jumbo and also just manipulation that sales reps end up doing because it's a good way to do it. So when you could put a process together in the ways that you're describing it, that takes a lot of that out of the equation. And by the way, the business KK and I run, AGS,We're moving with some products that will allow you not even to have a pipeline call each week because the information is shared so closely and who knows, maybe some of those products we work with are good fits to coordinate and integrate with some of the great things you're doing with membrane. But you really hit me on some key items there.Paul Fuller (09:02)Yeah.Yeah, we don't have a pipeline call every week. which is fascinating. If I think about it, I do have a sales team meeting every week, but it's not a pipeline call. mean, pipeline is an individual that the reason people have pipeline calls generally is, I hate to say it. it's performative at this point andMark Petruzzi (09:10)Mm-hmm.Paul Fuller (09:21)that really is it like performing, but it's more for the manager than it is for the salespeople. It's like, and, so I have a call. I took a format from one of our partners. it's a, we call it unpack, but it's updates and I do ask for short numbers, but I can look at the number because our CRM is actually clean.And actually we have a process that's built into it that understand and the sales reps agree helps them close deals. They use that process. Sometimes they get outside of the process, which is fine. They can call audibles. It's, fine, but they use that process to actually work their deals towards success. And so I don't need to have a long call where everybody's talking about their, their pipeline and individual deals and doing it in front of each other.Instead, we can start to have discussions about, what are some things that you're doing that is helping you improve your win rate? What are some things? How can I help you? And, we have discussions like that and in our number eight and then I, could say, Hey, this is what I'm really seeing in membrane. This is what the numbers are showing me. Is that true? Like, are you guys feeling that as a true, is it, how can I help you get those up?So the two hour performative pipeline call where you're forced to come in and a rep is forced to, to essentially embellish. Cause that's what they do. They want to look good in front of their, their team members. I don't, I don't need that. What I can have is a, is we can start to have just a mature discussion. Cause we've agreed that we're going to be self leaders and leaders in the organization. And we have a process by which to do that. And we can, we can talk about what's actually going on.Mark Petruzzi (10:38)Yeah.Paul Fuller (10:52)but I do trust, they have to have, there is no question like it has to be updated. That is just a habit. Like if we're going to provide this and we're going to provide this system that helps you close deals more effectively, it does have to be. And there are some things that I do need as a manager to update, but most of this is for you, Mr. Mastrip. So, you're dead on with that, right?Mark Petruzzi (10:58)Yeah.Paul Fuller (11:13)How do we drive effectiveness, not performative nonsense?KK Anderson (11:18)So Paul, I'm to take us into our final topic around focus, trust, and proof, right? Specifically from the lens of a CRO having to report up to a board of directors. And let's just start with, there are so many CROs right now that are beginning to invest in AI. Some organizations are further ahead than others, butI would say nobody wants to be left behind, right? And so if you're like, what advice would you give to your fellow CROs that are out there? Let's say they are just starting to kind of dip their toe in the AI water and they're gonna have to go to their board and ask for funding. And we know they're gonna fund what they can, boards are gonna fund what they can measure. So like in this era, what would your advice be to them on where to start?And later on, you would, some of these concepts of real intelligence, because that's really what AI, as we've talked about in this episode, allows us to do is to focus on the real which is the relationships and the trust and whatnot. So where would you tell a CRO to start in their journey?Paul Fuller (12:20)The greatest help that I've found so far, and let's talk about this in the concept and I won't talk about it necessarily from a concept of a CRO. If I can narrow that concept to almost a VP of sales in B2B sales.because I don't want to jump to the marketing side right now. I, cause there's a lot of stuff that I would, I think is really important. AI does extremely well there. So if you don't mind, I'll narrow the focus and on what we've been really talking about, which is it's the best thing that I've seen it do. And where we're heavily investing and investing on behalf of our clients as well.is summarization…

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Ep. 102 - Operationalizing Process and AI for Real Sales Impact with Paul Fuller – Part 1 Nov 18, 2025

Show notes

In this episode of Selling the Cloud, Paul Fuller, Chief Revenue Officer at Membrane, joins KK Anderson and Mark Petruzzi to reframe how revenue teams win in complex, multi-stakeholder deals. Paul explains why many orgs over index on apps and one-off skills while under investing in operating rhythms, leadership habits, and relationship-driven execution. He introduces the idea of real intelligence as the who and why that guide the how, and shows how process plus AI inside the workflow can coach managers, focus reps, and change what happens every Monday morning.What You’ll Learn:Defining real intelligence: moving beyond tools to leadership, service, and wayfindingBuilding operating rhythms: weekly coaching, clean pipelines, and a cadence of accountabilityEmbedding insights in the workflow: checklists that coach, not just boxes to tickActivating AI where it matters: individualized multi-stakeholder follow ups and manager signalsProving what boards fund: focusing on measurable behaviors that move win rate and cycle timeKey Topics:Systems over one-off training for durable behavior changeProcess plus AI to guide day-to-day actions in CRMCoaching frameworks that reinforce who, why, then howMulti-threading effectively and right-sizing stakeholder engagementFrom performative pipeline calls to meaningful operating reviewsGuest Spotlight: Paul FullerPaul is the Chief Revenue Officer at Membrane. He helps complex sales organizations operationalize process, coaching, and buyer-centric execution so managers can coach and reps can execute without bouncing across tools.Resources & Mentions:Fathom and Gong for call capture and summarizationMembrane workflow checklists and coaching cadenceWINS framework for servant leadership based sellingBooks: The Greatest Sales Question Ever Asked by Brent Long; A Mind for Sales by Mark Hunter; The Speed of Trust by Stephen M. R. CoveyLeader to follow: Matt Green of Sales Assembly🎧 Listen now and follow Selling the Cloud for more GTM insights from enterprise operators and CROs. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.Mark Petruzzi (00:31)Today on Selling the Cloud, we're joined by Paul Fuller, Chief Revenue Officer at Membrane. Paul spent years helping complex sales organization operationalize process and coaching, bringing structure to multi-stakeholder deals while keeping sellers focused on what moves outcomes. At Membrane, he's championed approach that layers insights and prescriptive guidance inside the workflow so managers can coach and reps can execute.KK Anderson (00:40)youMark Petruzzi (01:00)without bouncing across tabs. We'll dig into Paul's thesis on real intelligence, the durable leadership practices that operate, rhythm sales teams need to thrive amid AI tool bloat and rising partner competition. We have three topics we'd like to cover with you today. From skills to real intelligence, why systems, leadership habits and operating rhythms be one-off training.Process plus AI, kind of day-to-day actions, putting insights inside the workflow so reps and managers change what they do on Monday morning and every single day of the week. Focus, trust, and proof. Leading in the AI era, keeping teams competent, and proving to the board, CFO, CEO, that relationships and systems move the numbers. Welcome, Paul. We're so happy to have you with us here today.Paul Fuller (01:50)Thanks so much for having me. really appreciate being here. I'm pumped. I'm excited.Mark Petruzzi (01:55)Beautiful. We love it, All right. Let me open with a question here in topic one. So Paul, you've argued that revenue orgs over index on apps and one-off skills while under investing in the systems and leadership habits that drive outcomes. In your words, what is real intelligence for a sales org? And how is it different from adding another tool or another skill module?Paul Fuller (02:17)Yeah, great question. And I think you've, everybody's been there. in terms of we love in the sales world to focus on the how, And how do we get things done more efficiently and quicker and better and put more numbers on a rep and make sure that they get, things done more appropriately. LikeThe whole revolution of the past 25 years has focused on that. Let's, make sales and manufacturing line. Let's get an SDR. Let's get to an AE to an AE that does, another thing at a sales engineer to the next, to the next, to the next, right? How do we make this more efficient? there's, there's an interesting concept though, that I I'm really finding that more and more as we, today's world and what we're dealing with.is we have skipped some certain things. We have skipped some of the fundamentals that it takes us to operate as sales professionals as a human and really make a continual impact in the market. We have skipped things and pushed them to the side. Things like relationships, things like how we work on those relationships together, things like a long-terma relationship that is going to drive impact for your business for years to come instead of, and instead in much of what we focused on, have you gotten a conversation and is there an opportunity? So when I talk about real intelligence and building that into a company, I'm focusing more on the who we want to choose to be. And then the why that we choose to be this instead of, and then move into the how. And I think that focuses on three things that we choose to be in sales.how we choose to lead, how we choose to serve. And I have a word that it's wayfinding, but how we choose to problem solve and find a way to work with companies and, do that core to who we are and define the, make those choices about who we want to be in those actions. We can always figure out the how another app, another thing. andSo many of us just focus on that. How let's just, my gosh, I got this, I got this for data. got this for this scraping. got this for this. And you focus on that so much that you've seen tech bloat. You've seen confused reps. You've seen reps promoted to AEs that just cause they know how to book a meeting, but they couldn't, they couldn't discover and ask a question for the life of them. Or they don't even know who they are and what a sales motion is. So that's what I.Mean when I'm talking about real intelligence.KK Anderson (04:27)So the real intelligence as my daughter would call it is like the invisible thread, right? That connects everything. It is the common denominator that must be there to be able to make a sale. And that's a true relation. It's a human-based relationship. that what I'm hearing?Paul Fuller (04:45)Yeah. Amen. and let's make it real with like one word that you hear a lot in sales today and you hear people throwing up their hands about accountability, right? I can't get my reps to be accountable to leadership or customers. And so how did most people solve that? Well, I'm going to throw, I'm going to throw test management at this. Right. I'm going to throw check boxes that they have to do in their CRM. I'm going to throw.And they think that's solving the problem. Well, the problem lies much deeper than that. Yeah, the problem is much deeper than that, right? The problem is that you haven't invested in your team and built leaders on your team that know how to lead themselves and lead others. So why don't you start? Why don't we start with core components of self leadership as a team and say, that's how we want to sell and what that means to us before we then create this in the line thing wall andKK Anderson (05:10)another box to click.Paul Fuller (05:33)of accountability, because you have so many see I was on a CRO forum the other day and they're like, I just can't get these Gen Z errs or whatever to be accountable. Well, quite frankly, look at the system they've grown up in look at a lot of things that has happened. I think you need to go back to the real intelligence part of this. Let's talk about what it means we want to hire leaders, have leaders in our culture and what that looks like for us here. Let's start there and how that can impact your life.Therefore, you know, so you start a little earlier in the cycle, get rid of that. You do the how, but start with the who.KK Anderson (05:57)Yeah.Mark Petruzzi (06:03)So Paul, where do teams get stuck in this? What's kind of a common anti-pattern? Something that looks smart, feels good, shiny AI, but doesn't translate into consistent behavioral change.Paul Fuller (06:17)well, I'll use, we, are heavily, we love sales process. I love sales process. I actually really appreciate, our, platform is built around sales process, and how we're able to do that. sales process is a wonderful thing. and, let's say it's created in the mind of, the sales process is created in the mind of the medic expert that knows everything and has been.been in there for 30 years and knows exactly the questions to ask and all of those things, right? And then I put that out there and I put it into an organization. I find out, why isn't this working? It should be. I mean, we had an expert design it. it was perfect. It's in a system, right? There are gaps in the people I think don't see where they say, okay, let's fundamentally go back to this. And I put this concept of real intelligence, butlet's go back to these fundamentals of leadership there that are embedded into it. Let's agree on those and gain agreement for our team that that's what we're to practice. And then let's look at that in the context of a sales process. What are the actions that we're going to do continually and how is that going to, how are we going to craft reminders of that initial who that initial agreement, who do we want to be? Right? How do we're going to craft those in the sales process that actually helps us execute?cause if we have our who and our why figured out our how, we can systemize that really well. Right. So I think people get stuck in the anti thing is, well, I'm just going to put it in a sales process. Okay. If, if you just do that, you're going to get a bump. You're not going to optimize unless you have a complete and total agreement and, and, and focus and help people drive their core and, their understanding of why they're doing this and helping them and coaching them to do that.then you can execute on the how really well.KK Anderson (07:50)Sorry, are you saying then that where people get stuck is that they are skipping stages of the sales process or accelerating faster or skipping critical pieces of it and that's why their deals are stalling or, you know.Paul Fuller (08:05)No, I'msaying they're skipping stages. I think we're skipping stages and expectations a lot of times in our sales team themselves. And so for example, I was just talking to somebody last week and they're like, well, I hire really good salespeople. Right?that's what I do. And so I don't, I hire good salespeople. I have this process here that's helpful forum and I asked them to follow the sales process, but I asked them to, I hire good salespeople and I just count on them. And, and it's like, great, that is a wonderful step. They can do that. But I, the, the core thing is then, how, but how are you empowering them to be the best salespeople out there? Well, I really don't. I hire the, I hire the best ones and I let them run.now I think there's a, there's a step there and that is missed, which is all your hiring. You're hiring really good salespeople, but the step is how are you, how are you working with them, coaching them and helping them develop things that we know are core to continually get better. their leadership and account, their self leadership and accountability, right? Back at the ability, how they serve people, how theyhow they help people find what it is they need, right? Those are not things that are necessarily natural to everybody. And even the best salespeople need that help. So how are you continually helping them do that? And then how are you helping put things into the how, into the process that remind them of that activity, of the things that they need to do to be at the top of their game?And so that's really what I'm talking about. I think a lot of times we skip the step we, and we skip it far too often. We expect too much of things like new hires or especially new college grads that are coming in young sales reps that they understand concepts that are inherent to sales leadership service and wayfinding. we don't even give them, we throw them into a ⁓ niche role and we never pay attention to that. And I think it's time that we shift that, especially with AI, cause AI can do a lot of the how now.I can do a lot of research for us. And so we need to develop the things and the skills and the leadership service, the way finding on that side, much more impactfully to scale a good relational organization.Mark Petruzzi (10:05)Right on Paul. So give us a quick before after story where shifting from train to skill to build the system plus leadership habit materially change win rate cycle time and or forecast accuracyPaul Fuller (10:20)Yeah. I have one, that's a very recent one that we've been working with it. We have a partner, that we work with and he dives in and he very specifically focuses on a servant leadership based, who, right? Who we are is, servant leaders. They define that's how they define sales. And then once you decide that and, and figure out, okay. And then each individual is figure out why they're coaching.or why they're selling, which is more of an individual goal. He was able to put in a process and framework. So he's got a framework that he calls wins. And it's an amazing framework. That's how we're going to have these conversations, how we're going to do this continually, how we're going to lead, serve and way find as a, as a team. And then that framework then led into the specific sales processes themselves. So this is the order of operations that we want to follow.Right. Just by doing that work, but doing the hard work first on defining, who we want to be, how we want to lead, how we want to sell, what sales is. Right. And getting that hard work done first that is often skipped. but by doing that in, then putting in the processes of the framework and the processes afterwards, he's able to see, I think the stats on the recent case study or something like a 20 % increase in pipeline development.Quality conversations has gone up with all the reps. So qualification is massive. So pipeline flow through is incredible because they're qualifying more effectively from a place of confidence in who they are and what they can do. and so I will pull up the specific stats for you, but it's been tremendous. And so we do this through our platform. Like he implements a part of this in our platform. but the core of it, it becomes way before that platform.Right? It's, really deciding on who we want to be and the core elements of the, call it again, the real intelligence assets that we want to dive in, how we want to up or who we want to be and why we want to operate as a team. Is that helpful?KK Anderson (12:10)I think this is going to take us into our second topic, right? Around process and AI and how it impacts day-to-day actions. And so I know you love process. I believe one of the reasons you love it is because you also believe that this real intelligence is insights. they have to live where the reps work. Like it has to be in the workflow.in the CRM in membrane. And so on a Monday morning, what does an AE actually see? how does this real intelligence show up?Paul F…

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Ep. 101 – Unlocking AI’s Potential: Mastering the Art of Smarter Questions (Webinar Replay) Nov 11, 2025

Show notes

In this replay of Mastering Sales with AI, AGS Co-Founder Mark Petruzzi is joined by KK Anderson and Scott Stollwerk, Chief Sales Officer at Pest Share, together with Gabriella Koenig of Collective[i], for a lively and practical discussion on how AI is reshaping the art of selling.

The conversation dives deep into what separates average sales teams from AI-empowered ones—and it’s not the tech itself. It’s the thinking. The panel explores how smarter questions, better hypotheses, and trust-driven selling can transform AI from a productivity tool into a true strategic partner.

They share real stories from the field: how AI predicted buyer shifts before humans saw them, how teams replaced pipeline calls with signal-driven insights, and how great sellers now act like the CEOs of their own territories—with AI as their superintelligence.

Whether you’re a CRO, RevOps leader, or AE curious about where to start, this session shows how to go beyond surface-level prompting and turn AI into an amplifier for strategy, trust, and results.

What You’ll Learn:

• Why AI transformation in sales is not about technology—it’s about better thinking and sharper questioning

• The “value hypothesis” framework for creating AI-assisted prep before every customer meeting

• How leading teams like Pest Share use AI to forecast, coach, and prioritize deals in real time

• What happens when sales leaders replace pipeline reviews with AI signal reviews

• How to coach teams to trust and collaborate with AI rather than resist it

• Why the best sellers now operate like CEOs of their own pipelines—and how AI makes that possible

Featured Speakers:

• Mark Petruzzi – CEO, Accelerant Growth Solutions (AGS)

• KK Anderson – Co-Founder, Accelerant Growth Solutions (AGS)

• Scott Stollwerk – Chief Sales Officer, Pest Share

• Gabriella Koenig – Moderator, Collective[i]

Key Topics:

• Prompting for insight vs. prompting for confirmation

• From search to strategy: moving beyond AI as a shortcut

• Trust, empathy, and human connection in the AI era

• Smarter forecasting and self-coaching with collective data

• Building AI-driven sales cultures that embrace change

#SellingTheCloud #GetAGS #ReimagineGrowth #AIforSales

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Ep. 100 – Leading and Scaling Revenue Organizations When the Old Playbook Is Obsolete - Part 2 Nov 04, 2025

Show notes

In Part 2 of our conversation with Neil Graham, Chief Revenue Officer at Disqo, we dive deeper into how modern CROs must rethink their org design, marketing execution, and AI integration strategies to stay competitive in 2025 and beyond. Neil shares why curiosity, humility, and bias for action are now non-negotiables; and how his team is operationalizing those values inside a flat, fast-moving GTM system.From building AI-generated deal strategy sessions to deploying 24/7 agents on the website, Neil unpacks the real-world tools and team behaviors that are reshaping sales and marketing execution. This episode is packed with tactical insights for CROs leading through change.What You’ll LearnFlatter Orgs, Bolder Execution: How Disqo’s three-layer model speeds up decisions and drives alignment across marketing, sales, and delivery.Non-Negotiables in Revenue Teams: Why curiosity, humility, and action orientation matter more than ever, and how to screen for them.AI as a Revenue Multiplier: How Disqo uses AI for outbound personalization, content creation, and automated deal intelligence.Coaching in the AI Era: How Neil’s RevOps team leads enablement through data-driven strategy docs and always-on insights.Creating New Roles for the AI Age: Why Disqo now has a dedicated AI strategy lead embedded in RevOps, and how other CROs can follow suit.Key TopicsScaling outbound without bloating headcountRedefining RevOps to include data, process, enablement, and AI ownershipDesigning a leadership team that balances vision and executionThe future of SDR and BDR roles in an AI-enabled GTMUsing AI agents for 24/7 coverage and real-time buyer insightsBuilding culture through feedback, modeling, and EQ-based hiringGuest Spotlight: Neil GrahamNeil Graham is the Chief Revenue Officer at Disqo. A proven growth operator and revenue architect, Neil has helped scale iconic brands like Salesforce, Siebel, and Jive. At Disqo, he’s building a flat, AI-accelerated GTM machine that prizes speed, ownership, and alignment over legacy hierarchy.Resources & MentionsCompany: DisqoFrameworks: MedPick, DSF (Disqo Success Framework)Sales Tools: Gong, Clay, ChatGPT, AI agentsLeadership Inspiration: Carl Schachter, Eli Cohen, John BarrowsBook: Emotional Intelligence by Daniel Goleman🎧 Listen now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.KK Anderson (00:32)to drill into this topic, topic three, talking a little bit more about the flat org and the expanding CRO role, we've had this conversation quite a bit on our podcast about how CROs are now...taking responsibility of the marketing org, of the customer success org, of the sales org, of the entire go-to-market revenue system. And one of the things we see every day in our customer conversations is how disjointed marketing can be from sales disjointed product and from product management as well. And soas marketing is kind of folded in under you and this kind of this new flatter org and you mentioned that the alignment that you're having with your SLT every week but tell me a little bit about how this is helping to kind of bridge that gap between marketing sales customer success like the whole go-to-marketNeil (01:24)So I am a big fan of the CMO role in today's modern company and organization and, I know the SaaS and sort of technology world really well. So I'll speak from that perspective.I can't really make a comment on other industries, but I am a big fan of, the CMO's role, and, sort of ownership of a modern AI driven marketing strategy. that said, we're trying to innovate quite a bit and do some really cool disruptive stuff and shift the focus of our marketing strategy here. And my CEO is a big vision behind that as well. And,hoping that I'm actually a pretty good impact on that. and we've got some great leadership on our marketing team that's doing an awesome job thinking big and bold and in a differentiated way, but also really good at execution. And I think, this is a little bit of a side point, but I do believe in, making sure that on your management team, you've got a good, portfolio of leadership skills.from vision to execution oriented people. So you can do both. And we've been really careful to kind of put together our leadership team on the marketing team and the sales team. I don't own the success side of the business here, as you mentioned. We've got a whole, Chief Customer Officer owns all of our post-sale delivery and customer success functions, implementation consultants, all that kind of stuff. But doing a great job there.creating a leadership team that spans between visionary and execution oriented and has skills and that can kind of augment each other and kind of take both to market. That said, in marketing, I think what we've done a really good job at especially the last nine to 12 months, is shifting the focus to data-driven ROI creation activities and initiatives and making sure that everything thateverybody's focused on has proven results when it comes to lead creation and continued pipeline development of those leads into high converting opportunities. Right. And so we look at the data constantly in terms of how many leads, how many stage one pipeline deals were created, what conversion rates are going on and how much closed business happened from the marketing activities we're doing and dropping the stuff that doesn't have higher ROI.And for us, some of the traditional things that most people in this industry think drive a ton of output are things that we've actually cut. And just from a perspective keeping our own sort of information and strategies a little bit behind the scenes, like I'll just leave it at that, butin a pretty severe direction from less inbound and more outbound pipeline creation strategies with our marketing team and our marketing skill. that's been a lot more focused on demand gen, content, sales-facing, market-facing content, and overall product marketing.And those are the skills that we've really built out on the team. because, you know, getting into like the final subject a little bit, but we can dive deeper into AI. But I mean, because of AI, it's like, it's allowed us to do this. there's mass personalization that we can do at scale, truly. And people have always said, you know, mass personalization at scale. like today with the tools that are available in the market for us to understand the ICP.that we're focused on, our ideal customer profile and the key personas at those companies that have challenges that we solve for in a unique way. That data is all now massively in our CRM and with other tools, it makes it easy to augment a message to those people at those companies based on specifically what they care about and specifically what the business issues and challenges are at that company at scale.so we can get out the best prospecting that the most senior BDR and or sales professional would do because they know this account and they know these people and they've worked with them the last 20 years, that's starting to happen at scale in an automated AI based way. So we can get a message out there to the market that's hyper contextualized for the person in the company that we're targeting.And create awareness and pipeline that way. So mass personalization. The other thing we're doing in marketing, like creative content factories, like we're getting with AI, we're getting five, 10 times the output and a consistent brand voice.through creative and through content creation than we did before. And it's all kind of wrapped around what I'd call before that curiosity culture, that experimentation culture, getting a lot of velocity there with, auto-generated hypotheses and variants and insights into how to create better content, have better creative, do better outbound at scale. And that's what the whole marketing team's focused on right now.Mark Petruzzi (05:58)Excellent. Neil, very cool.Mark Petruzzi (06:02)So Neil, what are the non-negotiables?Neil J (06:05)The non-negotiables. All right. Quick question back. Are you talking about what non-negotiables exist in terms of how I run my business, my team, the operation itself?Mark Petruzzi (06:14)Yeah, I mean, would say kind of yes, yes, yes, all three. Just what are the things you have to do for success in this business?Neil J (06:17)Okay,KK Anderson (06:18)as well.Neil J (06:21)Ah, that's a great question. I think they all, to me they all ladder back to, and maybe this is for other leaders too, they ladder back to the core values of the company that you're at. And hopefully as a business you've done a good job or as a business or a business leader flushing those core values out and making them applicable to the unique attributes of your culture and your company and the space you're in and all that kind of stuff. Because they shouldn't just be words that are up on a wall, right?here we've got four core values at Disco. I'm not going to go into each one of them. They're actually on our website. They are up on a wall, but at other companies they've been slightly different. And I think about, I go back them quite a bit in the way that I lead, in way that I help my leaders lead the organization. If we keep kind of connecting things back to, as we talked about before, the DSF, the overall objectives of the company, for us it's our Disco success framework. Or if it's...the core value of the employee experience and the culture itself, right? One of ours is together, win together as one team. Another is pursuing outsized impact. So delivering exceptional results, being relentlessly all in as a third. There's more, but I think those are really impactful for, especially for a customer facing organization that are driven by numbers and that have clear objectives in terms of what good performance is and what it isn't. Like having those three things be.kind of non-negotiable to me and the rest of our core values non-negotiable and we try and bring things back to that quite a bit, right? We do a lot as a business to really rally around that. There's some other things too. I just think that, you know, I think about attributes in terms of how we deliver results every day and how we behave and operate. I've mentioned the word quite a bit already in this discussion, curiosity.I want my team to be genuinely curious. I don't want people to like try to manufacture it. We're living in a world where AI is reshaping how we work. And when people lean into that and experiment and ask questions and figure things out, that's a real competitive advantage. And I think curiosity drives innovation and it's just non-negotiable for the skills of the people that are around my organization and how I lead.A couple others that come to mind, one is humility. I think we all make mistakes, but what matters most is owning them. And I tell my team, over communicate, fall on the sword for your teammate or your customer, do it naturally. Again, needs to be natural. It needs to be part of their core instincts and their core kind of makeup. You can't force humility. It's too obvious. I think when leaders model this kind of...behavior and they look for that in employees that they're bringing into the organization and they help reinforce it along the way. It really builds trust and unlocks a culture where people step up and support each other. And then I'd say the third kind of major attribute that is non-negotiable for people in and around the go-to-market operation that I want to be a part of is problem solving and sort of taking action. You can call it action orientation. You can say, youproblem solving kind of mindset, but people that don't wait for permission, they take charge. we're in a flat company as we've talked about where it's small, it's nimble. We can't wait. We got to go make things happen. We may fail, but that's okay. Use data, evaluate the scenario, make a decision to move forward and then don't just bring problems. You know, what frustrates me as a leader is when we get into a meeting or I have a one-on-one and it's like, you know, data dump of all the problems that are going on. Okay.That's fair. There's always challenges, right? But what I try to coach and enable my leaders and the people that roll into my leaders are working with them and I am every day in terms of here's an issue I'm seeing that impacts our number one or number two priority. Here's the data that I'm looking at that calls this issue out. Do you agree with this data? Let's talk about this. Do we all agree it's an issue? Okay, cool. We agree it's an issue. Here's my idea is to solve for it. What else is there?help me out team, help me out Neil, whatever it is, Versus just bringing problems, right? So I think that kind of shift in people's approach to the market and how we're gonna move forward and communicating internally and also with customers and prospects is like something that's just non-negotiable. It's like, you either have that skill, sure, we're always tweaking it and developing it, but you either have that kind of mindset in how you operate. And if you don't, not a problem solver, if you're not action oriented,If you don't have humility, if you don't have a ton of curiosity, then we try and figure that out upfront and not bring those people in.Mark Petruzzi (10:26)Yeah, and those items are just far less coachable. So I totally get it and all great stuff.Neil J (10:31)That's a good one too.Yeah, people talk about EQ quite a bit, right? To me, there's that emotional, I think the Q was quotient, but it was like emotional intelligence, right? And that kind of sums up a lot of this self-awareness and self-management and just having a focus on relationship management and taking action. So I think that's a, it's a buzz term, but you got to like know what you want out of EQ and make sure that you're seeking that out. When we interview, we...Mark Petruzzi (10:40)intelligence, yeah.Neil J (10:57)we ask scenario-based questions to flush this kind of stuff. Like, how would you act in this situation? And if you're not doing that, it's just so powerful. And so I think you gotta sit with your leadership team based on the role in the JD that you're looking to bring someone in on and make sure that you agree on the types of questions that you ask and where you like to see the conversations go to flush out those things like humility and curiosity and action orientation. Because the stories,that people tell you will tell you if they are or not. And so I think that's a real way to be careful in terms of bringing people in that have the right skill set and the right approach to the culture and the DNA that you're looking at.KK Anderson (11:36)Let's dig into the AI conversation a little bit more. You've said that you've experimented with Gong, Clay, Chatubi-T, even building your own AI. Where are you seeing the most value?Neil (11:47)a lot of what you just said from a technology perspective. I think the disruption opportunities in marketing, I called some of them out already, like the, outbound personalization at scale, kind of creating these content factories. call them creative and content factories where you can.KK Anderson (11:50)Mm-hmm.Neil (12:04)really get higher output and get a consistent brand voice and create content and impactful creative at scale. I think there's a lot of automations just within marketing there and those disruptions, we have the always on personalization that we're, that we're able to have based on some of th…

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Ep. 99 – Leading and Scaling Revenue Organizations When the Old Playbook Is Obsolete - Part 1 Oct 28, 2025

Show notes

In this episode of Selling the Cloud, we’re joined by Neil Graham, Chief Revenue Officer at Disqo and a seasoned revenue leader whose career spans Salesforce, Siebel, Jive, and Telem. Neil shares a ground-level view of what it takes to lead, scale, and modernize revenue organizations in an era where traditional sales playbooks are no longer enough.From breaking out of funnel-stage rigidity to building flat organizations that prioritize curiosity, Neil walks through the changes CROs must embrace to stay ahead. He also shares how Disqo is rethinking GTM structure and leveraging AI to drive personalization, speed, and operational clarity; without drowning in tools.What You’ll LearnWhy the Playbook is Obsolete: What Neil really means when he says the old models no longer work, and what replaces them.Lightweight Rigor at Scale: How to build process and alignment without slowing teams down.From Bottoms-Up to Top-Down TAM: How Disqo blends relationship selling with TAM-led targeting for scale.Curiosity as Culture: Why curiosity is a non-negotiable leadership trait in flat, fast-moving GTM orgs.Leading Through Change: How to coach teams to self-govern, move fast, and stay mission-aligned in a no-layer org model.Key TopicsBuilding sales organizations without bureaucracy or bloatAligning marketing, sales, and success teams around business outcomesUsing AI to power real-time customer insight and hyper-relevant outboundFlattening GTM structures for speed, ownership, and clarityCreating cultures where experimentation and impact are rewardedGuest Spotlight: Neil GrahamNeil Graham is the Chief Revenue Officer at Disqo and a proven sales leader with decades of experience scaling GTM organizations from Series A to post-IPO. Known for his ability to bring structure without red tape, Neil has helped some of the most recognized B2B SaaS names balance scale with agility in high-growth phases.Resources & MentionsCompany: DisqoFramework: DSF (Disqo Success Framework)Sales Tools: Gong, Clay, ChatGPTBooks & Influence: MedPick methodology, Salesforce early days, AI-led sales enablement🎧 Listen now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.Mark Petruzzi (00:33)Welcome to today's episode of Selling the Cloud Podcast. We're excited today to welcome Neil Graham, Chief Revenue Officer of Disco. Neil is a proven revenue leader who has helped scale organizations at Salesforce, Siebel, Jive, Telem, and now Disco, the best name of them all. At Disco, Neil leads a go-to-market organization of about 45 inside a nearly 300-person company.KK Anderson (00:33)Thank you.Mark Petruzzi (01:00)His career spans taking companies public, guiding series A to series F growth, and balancing early stage venture backed and private equity operating models. Today, Neil will share what it looks like to lead and scale revenue organizations when the old playbook is obsolete, which pretty much is all the time nowadays. Covering agility,operational discipline, and why CROs must embrace a new approach to building revenue in 25 and beyond. Here are the four themes we'll explore. First, when the old playbook is obsolete. So when these old legacy models no longer fit, no longer work, how do leaders adapt? Scaling from 10 to 100 million, that sweet spot, especially in the SaaS and ISV world.And then, the concept of lightweight operational rigor, like how to combine a sleeves rolled up selling model with really good process and tools, but not too many process and tools slow How flat orgs need to be structured and how they work and how that really puts more pressure and responsibility on the CRO.and also sprinkling AI into the go-to-market mix. How Neil is experimenting with AI to augment productivity and rethink traditional roles. Neil, thank you so much for joining us. Welcome to Selling the Cloud.Neil (02:26)Thank you, Mark. Appreciate it. Thanks for having me.Mark Petruzzi (02:30)Happy to have you here. All right, topic one, when the old playbook is obsolete. So, Neil, I've heard you say, don't even know what the playbook is right now. It's all getting disrupted. Tell us a little bit about what you meant by that.Neil (02:43)thanks for the introduction. That was great. look, privileged to be at a lot of great companies through the years and hopefully caught on to a little infrastructure and kind of prioritization through the years in terms of how I approach things. we're in a really unique age today.the traditional playbooks from the last, I'd say 20, 25 years in a way, are going out the window in a way they're still there. And I think if you think about what's happening with AI and with how that impacts operational structures, go to market strategies, people and process skills.And overall playbooks, it's like you really have to kind of reconsider the way you're operating at every step of the way yet continue to operate and make sure that you put one foot in front of the other and execute. And so what does that look like? we've spent a lot of time. I think about the back in the days at Oracle in the early days and then at Salesforce, where we really scaled some organizations from small to large.the playbooks that we created around, marketing and sales and customer success became kind of a standard. And it's like, if you think about the processes from lead development, MQLs to SQLs to, early stage pipeline and the sales process from stage one to being selected at stage four or five and getting into a negotiation, the process of value selling along the way where you identify.the customer's business issues and challenges, you map your solution to that. You think about trying to position how you're unique against the competition or the status quo and quantify that, that value and articulate that really well to the client. A lot of that was put on our people and we would train and enable around these processes and these plays, try to roll out frameworks like, every part of the sales process, dissecting it.providing people visibility and information into what it takes to be successful, whether it comes to discovery, whether it comes to running a great demo, whether it comes to positioning the differentiated value prop, whether it comes to building the business case of the impact that you're going to make at the organization in terms of driving business outputs, whether it comes to scoping and professionally delivering a plan to make the customer successful, whether it comes to the negotiation, the objection handling, the competitive intel.All that stuff's still there. And our customer facing people and processes need to execute flawlessly on that. At the end of the day, it's just that the information is so readily available and we'll talk more about it later with AI have to do everything that I just said, but it's so flat in terms of being able to access that information, position that information on the fly.and make it part of your cadence that some of the traditional models of the playbooks and the enablement plans and the objection handling frameworks and all that kind of stuff literally go out the window and they become kind of almost in the moment. So I don't like at the end of the day, I think the old playbook being obsolete, I don't know. I think from my point of view, customer value still wins,the modern model starts with the customer's business case, knowing their business issues and challenges, understanding the pressures and constraints they have, and your people being able to flush that out and have that information at their fingertips when they come into a conversation. Then being able to articulate how the solution that they bring to market is differentiated and tie that differentiation to the measurable outcomes.It's just doing it in a more productive and higher impact and flatter and faster way. But every interaction that you have should clarify, how you come back to the business issue and challenge the customer has. So I think second, the AI tech that's out there puts these answers within reach and, we're able to have this information quicker and faster than ever before. And then I think third, just creating a culture and sort of a overall.go-to-market system that is rooted in curiosity. So your people and your processes continue to evolve quicker and faster than the competition is really important for every company.KK Anderson (06:30)I echo everything you said, Neil. this morning, as a matter of fact, I pulled out my phone and I wrote it in my notes thought exactly what you just said. The activities, what's changed now is that the activities aren't the work. Going into CRM and working in CRM, that is what's obsolete. Right? You can't do the same things every day and expect to have a differentiatedcustomer focused, customer obsessed approach, right? it's all about leveraging all of this super intelligence, leveraging AI, what's at our fingertips to do the hard. And so sales, in my view, is going back to what it was originally, the beginning of the sales profession, right? Where it was all about solving problems asking great questions and getting to know people and relationships.And then we had all of these years of playbooks here's what you do, here's what you say, here's how you handle this objection, here's how you position this, here's how you differentiate this. And it's almost now, like the second something gets turned into a PDF, it's no longer relevant, right? And so it is interesting. All of this is allowing sellers to do the hard things, which is if you go a day or a week,God forbid, and you don't feel that anxiety of what am I gonna say on this call or how am I gonna approach that person, then you're not doing the hard things. Ticking off tasks is old school. That's the old playbook, right? Anyhow, so as you think about this kind of seismic shift that's happening, what are the principles that are guiding you as you lead today? If you're going back to basics,back to you were just talking about, like what are those principles? Like how do you lead through this kind of a change?Neil (08:04)Yeah, look, first of all, think, it goes a little bit to the second kind of area of discussion. It's sort of how do you create this lightweight operational rigor, especially as you scale companies I've kind of been at a few companies now that are series A, series B. there's a disruptive technology that's solving for a problem uniquely in the market. Doing it, it's a better mouse trapthan what was there before. And because of this unique model, the unique data set, the cloud, whatever it is, it's able to solve the problem in a more effective, more efficient, more holistic, better quality way. The company I'm at right now is disrupting the marketing media effectiveness measurement market, the old stodgy providers that are out there that weren't as innovative and disruptive.We're disrupting that. I'm entering into a company, I've been here about a year and a half, where had, a better mousetrap than the competition, that a company could build on their own. Companies want a partner, they don't want to kind of be in the core competency of doing what we do. so we've been taking share from the competition.in the early days as we built the product five, six years ago and started to take it to market, we hired some good people from the competitors and knew the space and they brought their book of business and their relationships and it was a lot of hard work. Don't get me wrong, but at the end of the day, we were able to take share where we had relationships and where we had knowledge and sort of the bottoms up, right? And now we're moving more towards what I'd say is understanding the total addressable market.aligning our skills and our people and our organization around that, picking our bets on where is the biggest total addressable market, what can we take on right now as we scale and grow and we get past 50 and 100 and 150 million, aligning our skills and resources, training and enabling, getting the right people, hiring the right people, all that kind of stuff to go take the market more from the top down. Having that bottoms up, but also that top down where...We know this is the right place for us to aim the arrow and shoot. And we're going to put a lot of emphasis behind where we shoot and make it really impactful, improve our win rates, execute more flawlessly from marketing to sales to success and do a great job serving that market. So as we look at doing that and things are at the same time getting disrupted by AI, I've kind of run this play before where you're taking a company from 10, 20, 30 million to hundreds.and have the playbook and kind of like know the motion, right? You build in some process, you bring in world-class tools, you align your people and your skills to the market opportunity, you help limit the distractions on stuff that's not within that market opportunity that's the biggest bang for the buck. However, you still have to be nimble, you still have to kind of pay attention and pivot at the same time.And so there's a lot of art and science to rolling out lightweight process and tools and enablement and skills, yet at the same time, not over engineering it so we can go execute and we don't get in our own way and we don't have a lot of bureaucracy and there's not a lot of layers. And I think we've done that really nicely here. It's like I kind of came into an organization where we had a marketing team and there was a bunch of different pockets ofweird reporting structure. And we quickly fixed that where it's me to my heads of marketing versus like in demand gen versus product marketing versus PR and comm and then they have teams, right? And then on the sales side, we did the same thing. We kind of had a one size fit all motion for the salespeople and they were kind of going after the market based on what they all knew. We layered in where do we need to be and what skillsand tools do we need to have in order to go attack that market? Let's bifurcate the sales team because we saw two plays going on in the market. And we did that. We aligned the right people with the right opportunity. We hired the right people coming in to grow into these two opportunities. And we've rolled out playbooks and processes and competitive packages and, objection handling frameworks and all that kind of stuff for all the people that are in these two swim lanes in terms of how we go to market. What's been really cool in the last12 months is we've embraced AI to just do all that bigger, better and bolder. Right. And so, answering your question, I think first, leaders need to get out there and be in the market, especially at this size of a company. can't, more so than ever. It's, like, you have to be in the field. You have to be with your customers. You have to be with your teams. If you're not spending 50, 60, 70, 80 % of your time.even as the CRO is the operational leader, executive part of the executive committee, all that kind of stuff. If you're not out there in front of the market, then something's wrong, right? So that's number one. Number two, just building this culture of genuine curiosity, I think is critical. You have to hire then promote and exit people based on curiosity or a lack thereof.And that's in everything you do. It's if people aren't asking questions, if they're not genuinely curious in front of the customer, in front of their own internal teams, if they're not innovating and trying new things, and if they're continuing to be focused on delivering the results, right? Like we ha…

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Ep. 98 – Driving Symbiotic Outcomes in High-Stakes Sales with Josh Hoffman – Part 2 Oct 21, 2025

Show notes

In Part 2 of our conversation with Josh Hoffman, we explore the leadership mindset required to thrive in moments of high-pressure change, like mergers, long enterprise cycles, and AI-driven disruption.Josh shares how sales teams can stay grounded in customer value, build trust through co-created plans, and lead with consistency; regardless of who owns the company or what the logo says.We also talk about the real-world impact of AI on sales effectiveness, onboarding, and go-to-market readiness.What You’ll Learn:Leading Through Change: How to stabilize culture and focus teams during M&A, leadership transitions, or high-stakes GTM shiftsMutual Action Plans that Work: Why aligning around a co-created calendar is a simple but powerful tool for accountability and momentumConsistency Over Chaos: How sticking to your core value proposition helps drown out internal and external noiseReal AI Use Cases: How Josh and his team use AI for onboarding, writing, analysis, and market research—without replacing human judgmentLeadership in Modern Sales Orgs: The behavioral traits that inspire performance, loyalty, and resilienceKey Topics:Sales leadership in high-pressure, transitional environmentsUsing backward-planning and mutual calendars for deal velocityStaying aligned on value across long sales cyclesCultural consistency across internal and client-facing teamsAI for productivity, market intelligence, and GTM strategyEmbracing humility and continuous learning as a CROGuest Spotlight: Josh HoffmanJosh is Chief Revenue Officer at Totus Rx and a long-time leader in B2B revenue organizations. He’s built and led sales teams across tech, telecom, and compliance industries, with a focus on building high-trust teams and delivering real value to customers. Josh is known for his practical, human-centered leadership style, especially in complex, high-stakes environments.Resources & Mentions:Book: The Challenger SaleBook: SPIN SellingLeaders Mentioned: Mark Anderson, Russ Reeder, Todd Abbott, Mike Jenner, Joe BurtonFollow Josh Hoffman on LinkedIn for more insights on sales leadership and culture.🎧 Listen now and subscribe to Selling the Cloud to hear more from enterprise GTM leaders shaping the future of sales.KK Anderson (00:31)our third topic is around leading teams in a time of change. And so where I wanna take us. All the pressure of a change. You know, it can be a pressure cooker. All the accountability, which we know sales is famous for. The behaviors and the mindsets and the relationship and the building trust. All the things, right, that go into being an exceptional salesperson. Like when you're...going through like some of these acquisitions or mergers or whatnot, people are under the microscope, like how do you get your reps to believe and act the right way on the same side of the table in these high pressure environments?Joshua Hoffman (01:07)It comes back to me to the word consistency. You have to maintain a consistent value based approach on what you're delivering to your partners and clients. That shouldn't change. Even in times of mergers, acquisitions, whatever they might be. I don't know that I've been through any of those situations where the value proposition of the company changed at all. There might have been something added to it.There might have been something taken away from it based on that. But the general value proposition, if you believe in the organization that you're a part of, who owns it doesn't really matter. If the value of what you're delivering to your client or partner has remained the same, the rest of it is noise. And you have to remain focused on the outcomes. I really can't think of a time that I've been forced to say, oh my gosh, the value of our organization or the value of what we'rewhat we're providing to our clients has changed so dramatically that we've got to make a shift in who we are with them. Now, there may be other shifts that take place inside the organization. There's changes in leadership, there's changes in locations, there's changes in potentially having another strategy that has to come into the business because two things are coming together. But what doesn't have to change is that your approach with your clients and partners, it's still the same.you're still there to be a part of a team that's driving an outcome. And if you can remain consistent in that approach, you can help people remove the noise from the system and say, you know what? I don't have to worry about that. I don't have to worry about whether our company name changed. I don't have to worry about whether headquarters is in Dallas or Michigan. ⁓ It doesn't matter because I'm still doing the same thing every day. Now that's a lot easier, I think, for salespeople.than it may be for others in other parts of the organization. I don't want to paint it that it always works the same way, but for the pieces of the business that I've been the most part of over the years, sales, sales operations, marketing, very much consistency is an opportunity to make things a lot smoother and a lot better for people and to make sure that culture remains a consistent, strong, positive force in people's lives.Mark Petruzzi (03:11)Very cool. so let's talk a little more process here for a few minutes. What kind of role does a mutual account plan or an action plan that you may create with your team, what did they play in making sure both seller and customer are aligned and accountable? How much do you use them? What kind of value do you get out of them? And are there times thatthings like that are a distraction and not really productive.Joshua Hoffman (03:37)so first of all, I'm a little nervous answering this question with you because you've literally written the book on some of these things. I feel I might be a little bit on my heels, but let me try and answer the question as best I can. First of all, the idea that you're sitting on the same table with a client, with a partner, with both of them simultaneously, by default, that should mean that you have a mutual action plan. It should mean that you have a mutual calendar that you're working off of.It should mean that the outcome that you're trying to drive is identical because you've coordinated that you've co-created it. You've, but you know, back to my co words, right? You have co decided what those things should be. Now, whether you're a value selling person, a challenger salesperson, maybe even a spin selling person, there's all of these different models that are sitting out there. there are some attributes that those things have that are in common.And I always like to quote one of my favorite people. So I had this person in my life for a long time named Marcel Brunel. And Marcel was at this organization that did great work when it came to helping people work through the process of selling. And one of the focus areas that Marcel brought to me, it was a learning for me at the time, and that I've carried with me throughout these years, is about having that calendar in place. And for me, when I talk to aclient or partner, it's about having a backwards-facing calendar. And so let's start at the end. Where is the end here? What is the date? What is the outcome? What is the goal that we share in? And let's work our way backwards and establish goals and milestones that are going to help us achieve that. And then let's hold ourselves accountable to that. And as soon as we have alignment on the end of the line,it becomes much easier to fill in everything that works backwards. And if you miss a date, you need to catch up and you need to come up with a co-created action plan to do that. And that kind of collaboration, it really solves not everything, but it solves an awful lot. And it's not that things don't go wrong, things do. But if you build the action plan the right way, if you build the outcome the right way, you also try and provide yourself with the opportunity.for things to potentially not go the way you expect. You build in a potential buffer. Maybe there's an extra day or two here. Maybe, depending on how complex it is, there's an extra week that's baked into that that allows you to still achieve the outcome. And so that kind of planning is something that I talk about consistently, whether it's with a person on our team, whether it's with somebody that's working inside of an organization that's actually delivering the product or service or with a partner or client.Let's start at the end and let's work our way backwards and make sure we're in alignment.KK Anderson (06:16)it occurs to me as well, especially if you're in any kind of a, you know, complex sale where, or a longer sales cycle, right? Where you may have different people coming in and out of the sales process. If you have a mutual action plan or mutual account plan, whatever you want to call it, you can always lead with that outcome, lead the conversation with that value that everyone is synthesized there together to accomplish. And whoever's new to the call just falls right in place.Right?Joshua Hoffman (06:42)That's right. You get onto a call of you. If you had that co-created action plan and you've decided on the outcomes and the dates and you're having, you know, let's pretend it's a longer sales cycle, so to speak for that. And maybe it's a two month sales cycle when you're having that series of meetings to get there. The first slide should be that calendar. What have we agreed to already? Are we on track or are we not on track?and let's make sure that we're in this together. And that way, when new people do enter the conversation, they walk right into a framework that allows you to be successful, that allows you to introduce other people into the process.KK Anderson (07:18)What allows them to have the confidence that the conversation has been effective and aligned so that when you're at the wire and procurement comes in and starts asking questions, you've built the value. So you don't need to worry about getting slashed in negotiations and whatnot.Joshua Hoffman (07:30)That's right.Well, and partof it is even is making procurement legal, whoever else needs to be engaged in that process. Part of it is making them part of the team. If they're part of the team that's creating the outcomes and the decisions, then you don't have those surprises. Now, candidly speaking, look, there's always a surprise. A lot of times there's still a surprise.But the more you engage in that model and the more you broaden the team that you're working with, the easier this becomes because everybody's in alignment. I know what the outcome is. I know what needs to happen to get to that.Mark Petruzzi (08:08)Perfect. Well, so I guess we're even now. You made me blush with your last comment and KK made you blush. So we gotta get KK to blush at some point here. You got anything?Joshua Hoffman (08:19)Well, the blushing trifecta. Look, I tried to do it at the beginning of the conversation because I have seen KK's work. I have seen the impact that that you have had on people's lives by helping to make them better. I've seen the modeling that you've done. I've seen the outcomes of the not only the analytics associated with it, but the coaching that comes along with it. And I've seen the relationships that you've built and and that kind.of thing goes a long way because you not only bring your shining personality to this conversation, you bring credibility to the conversation. And so if that doesn't make you blush, kick it. don't know what I'm So ⁓KK Anderson (08:55)You got me.Mark Petruzzi (08:56)Now, let me tellyou, that was beautiful. I have seen it all firsthand as well. So I echo everything you say. But yeah, that'll make you blush too. Okay, so last question within kind of topic three that I have at least is, so what leadership practices have you found? Do all these things that we're describing, like,KK Anderson (08:59)You made my day! Even it's Friday!Thank you.Mark Petruzzi (09:24)build that trust, that loyalty, that long-term performance inside a sales team, and again, with the clients that you work with and prospects that you work with as well.Joshua Hoffman (09:35)so the things that I've brought up already sort of round some of those things out. Look, you have to care. You have to have compassion. You have to want other people to succeed. You have to have humility inside of this. You have to own up when you make a mistake. And gosh knows I make enough of them. And so I do my best to own up to them every step of the way. You've got to make sure that hierarchy is not really a part ofthe culture, at least for me, it's not. I would rather be viewed as a teammate than be viewed as a CRO. We're, the same way that I portrayed the company-client-partner conversation of being on the same side of the table. I like to view myself as being on the same side of the table with all the people that are part of the internal organization, too. Look, it doesn't always feel that way. I know I'm not perfect at it, but I do my best. AndIf I don't make it happen again, I try and own up to it and say, look, there's a chance for me to be better. And I talk about behavioral change in the context of not just people on the team, but about myself and being humble about that and being sort of true to myself that I'm still learning after, you know, I hate to call it the number of years, but after this many years that I'm still learning every day, I want the same for everybody that's in the organization. I want the same for our customers.We learn together, we grow together. It's a constant force.KK Anderson (10:52)try to remind myself whenever I'm in any kind of a conflict or a difficult situation that it's okay because I'm going to be better on the other side of it. Right? It's gonna, we're gonna get stronger.Joshua Hoffman (11:01)Yeah.Yeah, it does. ⁓I don't want it to, yeah, that old phrase, if it doesn't kill you, you know, makes you stronger. don't necessarily want anything that painful, but I've tried to make it work to my advantage.KK Anderson (11:15)So let's go to our last topic, which is the audience favorite always. And this is the future of go-to-market in the age of AI. so you have said that your mission is clearly helping others find careers that they love. You're very passionate about that, about caring for the individuals and helping them achieve things that they once thought were aspirational. Just like how you started out in the manufacturing floor at and look at you now.Right? So how do you see AI supporting that mission of yours for the next generation of sellers? What's going to happen in our world?Joshua Hoffman (11:47)look, AI is a game changer in so many ways. And look, I don't know that there's such a thing as an AI expert right now. And, Mark, you might be as close as the one that I know of. So again, you've written the book. And so I'm to be careful about how I how I answered these questions. Everybody's still learning right now. And I am part of an AI driven organization right now. We use AI.in how we deliver our services to our clients. AI reads evidence, AI scores evidence, and we still have to have people because we're an audit and compliance company and there's still people engaged. But we do use AI as part of what we do. And I get to see that every single day, the power of what it can do to save time, save money, s…

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