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Rock That Doesn’t Roll: The Story of Christian Music — Music
Rock That Doesn’t Roll: The Story of Christian Music

Rock That Doesn’t Roll looks at how Christian music shaped the world we’re living in now by telling individual stories from the peak era of the contemporary Christian music industry. In the 80s, 90s and early 2000s CCM grew into a billion dollar business that affected millions of evangelical young people. Through interviews with artists, industry players and average fans Dr. Leah Payne and Andrew Gill trace the long-lasting personal, cultural and political impact of sometimes cringe-worthy music. Expect hilarious moments and heartfelt yearning, purity culture and conservative politics- all in equal measure. Whether you’ve deconstructed, come out or renegotiated your faith, we hope you feel seen. If you’ve never given Christian music any thought beyond a punchline, we hope you’ll gain a deeper understanding of a subculture that’s shaping the world around us now.

Join our Patreon or Buy Us A Coffee. Or buy yourself a coffee from Larry’s Coffee and support the show.

Copyright: Content © Leah Payne and Andrew Gill. All pre-released media is used under fair use provisions.

Latest Episodes:

Mother Is A Big Question Aug 28, 2024

Show notes

Today we're sharing an episode from another Big Questions Project podcast: Mother Is A Question.

"This episode is called "Mother Is A Song," and we’re traveling to a place and time when mama was the muse–back when musicians in the U.S. were constantly singing about “the one who’s always true,” as one of these songs goes. One hundred years ago in the U.S., in the early days of recorded music, a lot of the songs people were listening to were about one particular person: mother.

Thanks to Sarah Bryan, the Association for Cultural Equity, and to Dust to Digital for inspiring this episode.

Mother is a Question is created by Natasha Haverty and Julia Metzger-Traber

Our editor is Rob Rosenthal

Original Music by Raky Sastri and Julia Read"

Christian Ska's Upbeats and Beatdowns (ft. Leanor Ortega Till of Five Iron Frenzy) Aug 14, 2024

Show notes

If there's one music genre lampooned more than Christian rock, it might just be ska. And Christian ska? Expect next level ridicule. But a lovable band of misfits from Denver, Colorado managed to do something that might seem unthinkable: combine two maligned genres and become a cultural phenomenon with an enduring cult following. On the season two finale of Rock that Doesn't Roll, music journalist Andrew Gill (Sound Opinions), and historian Leah Payne (God Gave Rock and Roll to You: a History of Contemporary Christian Music) follow the unlikely rise of Five Iron Frenzy, with insight from Leanor Ortega Till, aka "Jeff the Girl," aka the saxophonist from one of the best-loved bands in the Christian rock universe.

Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336.

If you want more seasons of Rock That Doesn’t Roll, you can support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr

You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com

Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments.

Buy RTDR merch here.

Yellow and Black Attack (ft. Michael Sweet of Stryper and Mike Tramp of White Lion) Jul 31, 2024

Show notes

Picture this. It's 1986. The Cold War is at a fever pitch. The whole world is locked into a conflict between the Forces of Freedom, and the Commies... at least that's how it felt to 80s kids. But the Cold War wasn't the only threat facing American society. Many feared that a much more sinister enemy lurking in the shadows: the devil himself. During the so-called satanic panic, parents worried that their kids would get caught by the Lord of Darkness, and rock - specifically heavy metal from notoriously debauched bands like Motley Crüe - was a big threat. What was an evangelical teen metal fan to do when the whole genre was tainted by Beelzebub? You fight fire with fire, and send Satan straight to hell with the legendary band Stryper. With insight from Stryper's Michael Sweet, and White Lion's Mike Tramp, music journalist Andrew Gill (Sound Opinions), and historian Leah Payne (God Gave Rock and Roll to You: a History of Contemporary Christian Music) follow the epic battle for the soul of Stryper, the undisputed kings of 1980s Christian Metal who wanted to fight Satan on his home turf - the raucous world of mainstream metal. Along the way, they found that the battle lines between demons and angels can get a bit blurry. How do you win the war when you aren't exactly sure who is friend or foe?

Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336.

If you want more seasons of Rock That Doesn’t Roll, you can support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr

You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com

Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments.

Buy RTDR merch here.

Fictional Christian Music (ft. Righteous Gemstones' Joseph Stephens, Daniel Smith and Chris White) Jul 17, 2024

Show notes

How do you make fake Contemporary Christian Music? Creating fictional Christian music that feels authentic without crossing the line into parody or pastiche is a tricky artistic challenge. But we found the creators up to the task. Joseph Stephens, composer for HBO's The Righteous Gemstones, a crime-comedy about a family of musical televangelists, and composer Daniel Smith (Danielson) and filmmaker Chris White of Electric Jesus, an independent film about an aspiring 80s Christian metal band, pay homage to Christian music makers of the past and create catchy Christian music that's feels and sounds an awful lot like the real thing. On this episode of Rock that Doesn't Roll, music journalist Andrew Gill (Sound Opinions), and historian Leah Payne (God Gave Rock and Roll to You: a History of Contemporary Christian Music), immerse themselves in the Southern Gospel strains of The Righteous Gemstones and glam-band anthems of Electric Jesus, and get a behind-the-scenes look at the artistry, craftsmanship, and heart involved in creating convincing fake CCM songs for the screen.

Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336.

If you want more seasons of Rock That Doesn’t Roll, you can support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr

You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com

Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments.

Buy RTDR merch here.

The Paradox Jul 03, 2024

Show notes

KUOW's podcast Let The Kids Dance! is the story of Seattle's Teen Dance Ordinance in a seven-part docuseries chronicling an untold chapter of pop-culture history. It’s a story about moral panic, grassroots activism and an unstoppable music community that fought for its freedom, created and hosted by Jonathan Zwickel.

The TDO made it impossible for venue owners to turn a profit while hosting all-ages shows. But the law contained a few exceptions, allowing concerts at nonprofit spaces and religious institutions. Savvy promoters take full advantage. In the latter half of the 90s, two all-ages venues sent a lifeline to the all-ages community by hosting unforgettable shows, leading to dramatically different results.

One of those venues was Mars Hill's The Paradox. It was one of Mark Driscoll's early footholds in Seattle and hosted all ages concerts by secular and Christian bands- as well as worship services.

Listen to the official Let the Kids Dance! playlist on Spotify.

Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave RTDR a message at (629) 777-6336.

If you want more seasons of Rock That Doesn’t Roll, you can support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr

You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com

Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments.

Buy RTDR merch here.

The DC Talk Test (ft. Jason Kirk and Kevin T. Porter) Jun 19, 2024

Show notes

What happened to the kids raised during the peak era of Christian rock? For insight into the state of Christian rock's late 1990s-early aughts evangelicalism you need not look any further than members of DC Talk, the pinnacle of youth group music. Their trajectory as artists and public figures roughly maps on to the trajectories of the millions of teens raised in American evangelicalism. In this episode, journalist and producer Andrew Gill (Sound Opinions)surprises historian Leah Payne (God Gave Rock and Roll to You: a History of Contemporary Christian Music) with a fan-made quiz that asks: are you a Toby Mac, a Michael Tait, or a Kevin Max? Together with two Christian rock aficionados, journalist Jason Kirk (author of Hell Is a World Without You) and comedian Kevin T. Porter (co-host of Good Christian Fun), Rock That Doesn't Roll explores the aftermath of the peak youth group band era.

Take the quiz for yourself!

Listen to the Hell Is a World Without You playlist on Spotify.

Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336.

If you want more seasons of Rock That Doesn’t Roll, you can support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr

You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com

Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments.

Buy RTDR merch here.

Purity Bros (ft. Joshua Harris) Jun 05, 2024

Show notes

Purity culture wasn’t just for youth group “purity girls.” “Purity bros” were also a part of the project! No one knows that more than Joshua Harris, a CCM fan who helped turn purity culture into an extreme sport. Together with his friend, Christian music superstar Rebecca St. James, they created media that inspired a generation of evangelicals to say no to sex outside of marriage, but also to things like dating, kissing, holding hands, and a lot of other things. In this episode, journalist and producer Andrew Gill (Sound Opinions), and historian Leah Payne (God Gave Rock and Roll to You: a History of Contemporary Christian Music) follow the story of Josh Harris, one-time icon of purity culture. Josh found that the X-games of evangelicalism included the thrill of victory, the agony of defeat, and eventually, a life beyond the world of purity bros and purity girls.
Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336.

RSVP for our virtual event June 11th at 6pm Central time.

If you want more seasons of Rock That Doesn’t Roll, you can support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr

You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com

Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments.

Buy RTDR merch here.

Purity Girls (ft. Nikki Leonti) May 22, 2024

Show notes

In 2001, teen singing sensation Nikki Leonti was on her way to a promising Christian music career. She had two hit CCM records, and - as a pop princess who swore to refrain from premarital sex - the support of big evangelical media organizations like James Dobson’s Focus on the Family. But then, at age 18, the “purity girl” Leonti announced she was pregnant, and lost it all. With insight from author and podcaster Devi Abraham, journalist and producer Andrew Gill (Sound Opinions), and historian Leah Payne (God Gave Rock and Roll to You: a History of Contemporary Christian Music) explore how Christian music purity icons like Nikki Leonti, along with their fans, walked the tightrope of purity culture, lost their balance, and learned to put their lives back together again after they fell.
Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336.

If you want more seasons of Rock That Doesn’t Roll, you can support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr

You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com

Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments.

Buy RTDR merch here.

Holy Hip Hop (ft. Soup The Chemist) May 08, 2024

Show notes

In the 1990s, music critics argue that hip hop was in its golden age. Mainstream Top 40 charts were filled with hits from The Notorious B.I.G, Tupac Shakur, and Dr. Dre. But the Contemporary Christian charts lagged far, far behind. What took so long for holy hip hop to take off? With insight from Dr. Jonathan Calvillo (author of In the Time of Sky-Rhyming: How Hip Hop Resonated in Brown Los Angeles), journalist and producer Andrew Gill (Sound Opinions), and historian Leah Payne (God Gave Rock and Roll to You: a History of Contemporary Christian Music) follow the story of Christopher J. Cooper, aka Soup the Chemist, aka Super C, a groundbreaking figure in the Christian hip hop movement. It wasn’t easy, but as Soup the Chemist worked to carve out a place for Christian hip hop to thrive, he laid the foundation for future Christian hip hop artists like Propaganda and Lecrae.
Do you have a Christian music story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336.

If you want more seasons of Rock That Doesn’t Roll, you can support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr

You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com

Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments.

Buy RTDR merch here.

Undo Me (ft. Jennifer Knapp) Apr 24, 2024

Show notes

In 1999, singer-songwriter Jennifer Knapp was at the top of the Christian music world. Her debut album Kansas was gold-certified, she'd won four Gospel Music Association Dove Awards, and she was on tour with some of the top bands in the business. It seemed like Knapp was destined to be the ultimate rockstar poster child for evangelical teens - especially young women. But that frame was an uncomfortable fit for Knapp. She was an adult convert, and the evangelical norms that young women learned from the world of CCM were new to her. Eventually, at the height of her fame, Jennifer moved across the globe, and disappeared from the world of CCM. Yet even when she thought her stint in Christian music was over, Jennifer's fans had other ideas. In this episode, journalist and producer Andrew Gill (Sound Opinions), and historian Leah Payne (God Gave Rock and Roll to You: a History of Contemporary Christian Music) follow Knapp’s story, and explore how, together with her fans, she’s making new meaning out of the Christian music of her past.

Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336.

If you want more seasons of Rock That Doesn’t Roll, you can support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr

You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com

Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments.

Buy RTDR merch here.

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