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Rock That Doesn’t Roll: The Story of Christian Music — Music
Rock That Doesn’t Roll: The Story of Christian Music

Rock That Doesn’t Roll looks at how Christian music shaped the world we’re living in now by telling individual stories from the peak era of the contemporary Christian music industry. In the 80s, 90s and early 2000s CCM grew into a billion dollar business that affected millions of evangelical young people. Through interviews with artists, industry players and average fans Dr. Leah Payne and Andrew Gill trace the long-lasting personal, cultural and political impact of sometimes cringe-worthy music. Expect hilarious moments and heartfelt yearning, purity culture and conservative politics- all in equal measure. Whether you’ve deconstructed, come out or renegotiated your faith, we hope you feel seen. If you’ve never given Christian music any thought beyond a punchline, we hope you’ll gain a deeper understanding of a subculture that’s shaping the world around us now.

Join our Patreon or Buy Us A Coffee. Or buy yourself a coffee from Larry’s Coffee and support the show.

Copyright: Content © Leah Payne and Andrew Gill. All pre-released media is used under fair use provisions.

Latest Episodes:

Giving Up Your Band For God (ft. Josh Caterer of Smoking Popes) Jul 09, 2025

Show notes

In 1998 it seemed like Josh Caterer had it made. His band, Smoking Popes, had three critically acclaimed albums out. They were signed to Capitol Records. He had married his high school sweetheart. But Josh had also just become a Christian and couldn't reconcile his rock band life with his new evangelical life. So he quit the band.

On today's episode hosts Andrew Gill and Dr. Leah Payne talk with Josh Caterer about that decision, how the band got back together, their new album, Lovely Stuff, and their new single, "Allegiance."

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Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 204-4264.

If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr(join via the website, not the iOS app)

Or make a one-time donation: https://coff.ee/rtdr

If you can't afford a donation, please tell five friends about the show.

You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com

Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments.

Buy RTDR merch here.

Christian Music on the Hot 100 Jul 02, 2025

Show notes

In mid-June NPR published a story with the headline "Christian music is experiencing a pop breakthrough." As podcasters covering the Christian music industry, we usually think it reached it's zenith of popularity in the early 2000s, so this article caught our attention. To dig deeper into the topic, we invited the article's author, Emma Madden, on the podcast. Our chat was wide ranging and gets into the influence of worship music on new Christian pop music, differences in religious culture in the UK versus the US, the role of social media in spreading singles by Brandon Lake and Forrest Frank, the conservative political environment in the US and the changing standards of personal behavior expected of Christian pop stars.

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Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 204-4264.

If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr(join via the website, not the iOS app)

If you can't afford a donation, please tell five friends about the show.

You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com

Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments.

Buy RTDR merch here.

Russ Taff and Steve Taylor Jun 25, 2025

Show notes

This week on the show it's legends only: Russ Taff and Steve Taylor. They collaborated on Russ' new album, "Cover Story," but both have long and distinctive careers in the Christian music industry.

Russ Taff became lead singer of The Imperials in 1976, started his solo career in 1983, earning two Grammys and many Dove awards. He was one of the industry's biggest solo male stars, but his most beloved songs are Pentecostal worship songs that connect all the way back to his childhood. Over the years he has dealt with alcoholism off and on, though he is beloved among his peers in the industry.

Steve Taylor started his career as a new wave Randy Newman type, calling out hypocrisy in the evangelical church, while also becoming an "underground" hero to Christian music fans. In the early 1990s he formed the band Chagall Guevara, deepening the devotion of his alternative fandom. In 1997 he became a label boss when he launched Squint Entertainment, which signed Sixpence None The Richer and released the massive hit single, "Kiss Me."

Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336.

If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr(join via the website, not the iOS app)

If you can't afford a donation, please tell five friends about the show.

You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com

Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments.

Buy RTDR merch here.

Accountability for Michael Tait (DC Talk, Newsboys) and Sean Feucht (ft. Kelsey Kramer McGinnis) Jun 18, 2025

Show notes

Michael Tait, most recently lead singer of The Newsboys and also well known as one third of DC Talk, confessed to accusations of sexual assault and drug abuse on June 10, 2025. This came after deeply reported investigations into his behavior were published first by The Roys Report and then by The Guardian.

The day before this news broke, whistleblowers accused the worship leader best known for right wing political agitation, Sean Feucht, of financial misappropriation and spiritually coercive leadership tactics.

Hosts Leah Payne and Andrew Gill discuss the two scandals and what each of these figures mean in the context of American evangelicalism. They're joined by Kelsey Kramer McGinnis, a musicologist and worship correspondent for Christianity Today. Her Substack piece on both men is very insightful.

Additional reading:

Hayley Williams on Michael Tait

Kelsey's book "The Myth of Good Christian Parenting"

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Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 204-4264.

If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr(join via the website, not the iOS app)

You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com

Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments.

Buy RTDR merch here.

Season Three Update Mar 26, 2025

Show notes

A short update on progress towards season three of Rock That Doesn't Roll.

Leah's limited-run podcast, Spirit and Power.

Lo! A Christmas Special! Dec 20, 2024

Show notes

Buy tickets for our live show in Chicago on January 5!

It's the second annual Rock That Doesn't Roll CCM Christmas Song Awards!

Listen to find out what awards Amy Grant, Sarah Masen, Carman, Stryper and David Meece won this year.

Do you have a song that deserves an award? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336.

If you want more seasons of Rock That Doesn’t Roll, you can support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr

You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com

Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments.

Buy RTDR merch here.

The Art House (ft. Charlie Peacock and Andi Ashworth) Nov 01, 2024

Show notes

Charlie Peacock is a renowned figure in the music industry for his solo albums, production work, songwriting and his record label RE:Think, which launched Switchfoot and Sarah Mason. Outside of the music industry spotlight he and his wife Andi Ashworth were creating a very unique space in Nashville called The Art House. Their experiences with The Art House inspired their recent book, "Why Everything That Doesn't Matter, Matters So Much: The Way of Love in a World of Hurt."

Leah actually worked at The Art House more than 20 years ago, so we were eager to talk with Charlie and Andi about this book.

To hear the full hour-long interview, visit our Patreon.

In the Patreon-only version of this episode, Charlie also shares which collaborator he considers one of the best songwriters in the world.

Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336.

If you want more seasons of Rock That Doesn’t Roll, you can support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr

You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com

Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments.

Buy RTDR merch here.

Youth Group Demon Hunting (ft. Jordan Morris) Oct 16, 2024

Show notes

Jordan Morris is a long time podcaster, comedy writer and creator and co-writer of the two-time Eisner-nominated graphic novel Bubble (based on the hit podcast). His new graphic novel, co-written with artist Bowen McCurdy is Youth Group. It draws on Jordan's real life experiences in a Orange County California youth groups in the 1990s, but adds literal demon hunting to the list of church-approved activities.

In the Patreon-only version of this episode, he also shares a story about Christian summer camp and we share ideas for casting a film adaptation of Youth Group.

Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336.

If you want more seasons of Rock That Doesn’t Roll, you can support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr

You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com

Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments.

Buy RTDR merch here.

Introducing: Second Sunday Oct 02, 2024

Show notes

Second Sunday is one of our sibling podcasts with PRX's Big Questions Project.

Second Sunday is about Black Queer folks finding, keeping and sometimes losing faith.

Mark Miller is a graduate of Juilliard and Yale University with an expertise in choral conducting, sacred music, and voice. His hymns and anthems are sung by communities of faith throughout the world, and his album, Imagine the People of God, is available on iTunes. He believes that music, social justice, and the beloved community are inextricably tied. His story is about finding God and himself through music.

The Second Sunday podcast is hosted by Esther and Darren Calhoun. Follow Esther @estheralready,https://www.instagram.com/estheralreadyFollow Darren @heydarren, https://www.instagram.com/heydarrenFollow Second Sunday @secondsundaypod, https://instagram.com/secondsundaypodSubscribe to the podcast, https://secondsundaypod.com

Bookstore Guy to Exvangelical (ft. Blake Chastain) Sep 11, 2024

Show notes

In this bonus episode Leah and Andrew talk with Blake Chastain, the first person to use "exvangelical" as a hashtag (and host of the Exvangelical podcast) about his book, "Exvangelical and Beyond: How American Christianity Went Radical and the Movement That's Fighting Back." He shares about his time as a "bookstore guy" and how the academic concepts of "counter public" and "hyperobject" are helpful in understanding what's happening in American evangelicalism.

In the Patreon-only version of this episode, he also shares a story about a song that left him temporarily paralyzed at work once. Plus we discuss not one, but two different songs by Ray Boltz.

Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336.

If you want more seasons of Rock That Doesn’t Roll, you can support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr

You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com

Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments.

Buy RTDR merch here.

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