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Rock That Doesn’t Roll: The Story of Christian Music — Music
Rock That Doesn’t Roll: The Story of Christian Music

Rock That Doesn’t Roll looks at how Christian music shaped the world we’re living in now by telling individual stories from the peak era of the contemporary Christian music industry. In the 80s, 90s and early 2000s CCM grew into a billion dollar business that affected millions of evangelical young people. Through interviews with artists, industry players and average fans Dr. Leah Payne and Andrew Gill trace the long-lasting personal, cultural and political impact of sometimes cringe-worthy music. Expect hilarious moments and heartfelt yearning, purity culture and conservative politics- all in equal measure. Whether you’ve deconstructed, come out or renegotiated your faith, we hope you feel seen. If you’ve never given Christian music any thought beyond a punchline, we hope you’ll gain a deeper understanding of a subculture that’s shaping the world around us now.

2026 Signal Award Winner

Join our Patreon or Buy Us A Coffee. Or buy yourself a coffee from Larry’s Coffee and support the show.

Copyright: Content © Leah Payne and Andrew Gill. All pre-released media is used under fair use provisions.

Latest Episodes:

Rewind: Jennifer Knapp's Journey Oct 14, 2026

Show notes

This episode was originally published in 2024.

In 1999, singer-songwriter Jennifer Knapp was at the top of the Christian music world. Her debut album Kansas was gold-certified, she'd won four Gospel Music Association Dove Awards, and she was on tour with some of the top bands in the business. It seemed like Knapp was destined to be the ultimate rockstar poster child for evangelical teens - especially young women. But that frame was an uncomfortable fit for Knapp. She was an adult convert, and the evangelical norms that young women learned from the world of CCM were new to her. Eventually, at the height of her fame, Jennifer moved across the globe, and disappeared from the world of CCM. Yet even when she thought her stint in Christian music was over, Jennifer's fans had other ideas. In this episode, journalist and producer Andrew Gill (Sound Opinions), and historian Leah Payne (God Gave Rock and Roll to You: a History of Contemporary Christian Music) follow Knapp’s story, and explore how, together with her fans, she’s making new meaning out of the Christian music of her past.

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Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Want to respond to this episode? Leave us a message at ‪(629) 204-4264‬.

If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr(join via the website, not the iOS app for a 30% discount)

If you'd like to make a one-time donation: https://coff.ee/rtdr

If you can't afford a donation, please tell five friends about the show.

You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com

Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments.

Buy RTDR merch here (deeply discounted Sept. 4-7)

Do you like coffee? Try Larry's Coffee and support the show. The first time you spend $15, we get $30.

Choosing Sacred Music (ft. Nico Muhly) Sep 30, 2026

Show notes

This a special addendum episode to season 4. Nico Muhly is an extremely accomplished composer known for work with Sufjan Stevens, Bjork, Grizzly Bear, Steve Reich, Philip Glass and so much more (including two operas for The Met). He's also had a sort of parallel career composing sacred music in the English choral tradition. On Sunday, October 4, 2026 a sacred music piece he made as composer in residence at Christ Church Oxford will have its NYC debut at Carnegie Hall. We had a wide-ranging discussion with Nico about his approach to composition and how he moves between the high art world and the sacred music world so effortlessly.

From Taverner to Today - Christ Church Cathedral Choir at 500 - Carnegie Hall, October 4, 2026

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Vote for us in the Signal Awards

Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Want to respond to this episode? Leave us a message at ‪(629) 204-4264‬.

If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr(join via the website, not the iOS app for a 30% discount)

If you'd like to make a one-time donation: https://coff.ee/rtdr

If you can't afford a donation, please tell five friends about the show.

You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com

Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments.

Buy RTDR merch here.

Do you like coffee? Try Larry's Coffee and support the show. The first time you spend $15, we get $30.

Rewind: Radicalized By Christian Ska (ft. Five Iron Frenzy) Sep 16, 2026

Show notes

This is episode was originally released in 2024.

If there's one music genre lampooned more than Christian rock, it might just be ska. And Christian ska? Expect next level ridicule. But a lovable band of misfits from Denver, Colorado managed to do something that might seem unthinkable: combine two maligned genres and become a cultural phenomenon with an enduring cult following. On the season two finale of Rock that Doesn't Roll, music journalist Andrew Gill (Sound Opinions), and historian Leah Payne (God Gave Rock and Roll to You: a History of Contemporary Christian Music) follow the unlikely rise of Five Iron Frenzy, with insight from Leanor Ortega Till, aka "Jeff the Girl," aka the saxophonist from one of the best-loved bands in the Christian rock universe.

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Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Want to respond to this episode? Leave us a message at ‪(629) 204-4264‬.

If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr(join via the website, not the iOS app for a 30% discount)

If you'd like to make a one-time donation: https://coff.ee/rtdr

If you can't afford a donation, please tell five friends about the show.

You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com

Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments.

Buy RTDR merch here (deeply discounted Sept. 4-7)

Do you like coffee? Try Larry's Coffee and support the show. The first time you spend $15, we get $30.

Rewind: In The Pit For Jesus (ft. Brad Onishi and DL Mayfield) Sep 02, 2026

Show notes

This episode was originally published in 2023.

For 1990s evangelical teens, punk, hardcore, and ska were a gateway to a passionate, edgy way to express their Christianity outside the mainstream. But was the music and the message enough to keep the evangelical faith? In this episode, originally published in October 2023, hosts Andrew Gill and Leah Payne follow three Christian punk rock stories from Dr. Bradley Onishi of Axis Mundi Media, author D.L. Mayfield, and Tim Whitaker of The New Evangelicals as they share their stories of loving, leaving, or holding on to evangelical Christianity - and the music that fueled their teenaged devotion.

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Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Want to respond to this episode? Leave us a message at ‪(629) 204-4264‬.

If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr(join via the website, not the iOS app for a 30% discount)

If you'd like to make a one-time donation: https://coff.ee/rtdr

If you can't afford a donation, please tell five friends about the show.

You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com

Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments.

Buy RTDR merch here (deeply discounted Sept. 4-7)

Do you like coffee? Try Larry's Coffee and support the show. The first time you spend $15, we get $30.

The Vampire Weekend to Tooth and Nail Connection (ft. Adam Voith) Aug 19, 2026

Show notes

Adam Voith began his career in the music industry alongside the early bands riding the Tooth and Nail boom, blurring the line between Christian rock and the secular music industry. He went on to be a booking agent with clients including Vampire Weekend, Bon Iver, Haim, The Mountain Goats, Father John Misty and more. Now he's retired from the music industry and has gone back to his first love: independent publishing. He's just released his third novel, fictionalizing his experiences in the Christian rock world alongside the band Roadside Monument (with cameos from MXPX, Joe Christmas,Trey Many of Velour 100 and James Morelos of Made in Mexico Records).

The title? A phrase we know all too well: Recommended If You Like. Adam is giving away this book- shipping included- so there's no reason not to get your own copy.

If you'd like to join a group conversation with Adam about this book, vote in our survey here: https://www.patreon.com/rtdr/posts/should-we-do-166031311

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Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Want to respond to this episode? Leave us a message at ‪(629) 204-4264‬.

If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr(join via the website, not the iOS app for a 30% discount)

If you'd like to make a one-time donation: https://coff.ee/rtdr

If you can't afford a donation, please tell five friends about the show.

You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com

Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments.

Buy RTDR merch here.

Do you like coffee? Try Larry's Coffee and support the show. The first time you spend $15, we get $30.

The Luxury of Sacred Harp (ft. Matt Hinton) Aug 05, 2026

Show notes

Matt Hinton has only been a member of Luxury for 27 years, so he's the new guy in the band. He's also a documentary filmmaker with two feature length films to his name: Awake My Soul: The Story of The Sacred Harp (co-directed with Erica Hinton) and Parallel Love, which is the story of Luxury.

Awake My Soul has been reissued in HD and with other assorted improvements. To mark the occasion, a number of theatrical screening are happening around the country. Find one near you at https://awakemysoul.com/

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Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Want to respond to this episode? Leave us a message at ‪(629) 204-4264‬.

If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr(join via the website, not the iOS app for a 30% discount)

If you'd like to make a one-time donation: https://coff.ee/rtdr

If you can't afford a donation, please tell five friends about the show.

You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com

Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments.

Buy RTDR merch here.

Do you like coffee? Try Larry's Coffee and support the show. The first time you spend $15, we get $30.

When DIY Music Met Youth Group Kids (ft. Randall Stephens and Scott Hatch) Jul 22, 2026

Show notes

Scott Hatch grew up Methodist, but learned about DIY music at his college radio station. When he started his label, Burnt Toast Vinyl, in 1996 he put out bands that had a similar background to him- fellow youth group kids.

One of those youth group kids was Randall Stephens. He grew up Nazarene, but was inspired by bands like Pavement and Guided By Voices to start the band Jetenderpaul in the early 1990s. After releasing three albums and a handful of singles for Velvet Blue Music and Burnt Toast Vinyl, Stephens went on to become a respected academic who researches the intersection of Christianity and rock music. His book, The Devil's Music, is essential reading on the topic.

This year Burnt Toast Vinyl re-released Jetenderpaul's second album, The Woolen Spireson vinyl for the first time.

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Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Want to respond to this episode? Leave us a message at ‪(629) 204-4264‬.

If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr(join via the website, not the iOS app for a 30% discount)

If you'd like to make a one-time donation: https://coff.ee/rtdr

If you can't afford a donation, please tell five friends about the show.

You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com

Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments.

Buy RTDR merch here.

Do you like coffee? Try Larry's Coffee and support the show. The first time you spend $15, we get $30.

From Politically Incorrect to Ye Gods (ft. Scott Carter) Jul 08, 2026

Show notes

Scott Carter is the host of Ye Gods, a podcast and public radio show that explores codes of religious, cultural and secular conduct with notable guests like Martin Short, Killer Mike and Moon Zappa among many others. Scott is an award-winning executive producer and writer, known for his work on Real Time with Bill Maher and Politically Incorrect with Bill Maher.

In this interview he shares how his views on religion have shifted over his life, the role music plays in his spiritual practice and shares Hollywood stories about Martin Scorcese, Gary Shandling. Brian Wilson and more.

For the month of July Ye Gods is presenting a series called "For God And Country" in honor of America's 250th Birthday.

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Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Want to respond to this episode? Leave us a message at ‪(629) 204-4264‬.

If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr(join via the website, not the iOS app for a 30% discount)

If you'd like to make a one-time donation: https://coff.ee/rtdr

If you can't afford a donation, please tell five friends about the show.

You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com

Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments.

Buy RTDR merch here.

Do you like coffee? Try Larry's Coffee and support the show. The first time you spend $15, we get $30.

Our God Is An Awesome God To Hang With (ft. Emperor X) Jun 24, 2026

Show notes

Chad Matheny is better known by his folk punk band name, Emperor X. His 12th full length album, Unified Field, is out on June 26 and features a single called "Praise Jesus! Hail Reagan!" Much of the album was recorded in Ukraine during the war with Russia. Chad has lived in Berlin, Germany since 2012.

Chad also happens to be a friend of Andrew Gill's since they attended public middle school and high school together in Jacksonville, Florida.

This episode includes discussion of Chad's megachurch upbringing, his thoughts on the "trad cath" trend, why more leftists need to call themselves Christians and what Andrew was like in high school.

Emperor X's playlist of CCM bangers

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Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Want to respond to this episode? Leave us a message at ‪(629) 204-4264‬.

If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr(join via the website, not the iOS app for a 30% discount)

If you'd like to make a one-time donation: https://coff.ee/rtdr

If you can't afford a donation, please tell five friends about the show.

You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com

Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments.

Buy RTDR merch here.

Do you like coffee? Try Larry's Coffee and support the show. The first time you spend $15, we get $30.

The Supertones' Progressive Neighbor (ft. Jewly Hight) Jun 10, 2026

Show notes

Jewly Hight is a noted music journalist best known for her work with NPR Music, Nashville Public Radio, The Bitter Southerner and more. She's also a friend of Leah's from their days together in grad school at Vanderbilt Divinity School. In this conversation we talk about how Jewly got into music, her most regrettable tattoo, her feud with the Supertones' singer, clogging, Jelly Roll and so much more.

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Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Want to respond to this episode? Leave us a message at ‪(629) 204-4264‬.

If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr(join via the website, not the iOS app for a 30% discount)

If you'd like to make a one-time donation: https://coff.ee/rtdr

If you can't afford a donation, please tell five friends about the show.

You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com

Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments.

Buy RTDR merch here.

Do you like coffee? Try Larry's Coffee and support the show. The first time you spend $15, we get $30.

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