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    Business

    Profit First for Lawyers

    The Profit First for Lawyers podcast is the companion show to the book, Profit First for Lawyers by RJon Robins. The goal of the book and podcast are to empower lawyers with practical and actionable information to help them improve their lives by putting their family, their firm, and their Profits First.

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    Copyright: ©2023, Profit First For Lawyers - RJon Robins, All Rights Reserved

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    Latest Episodes:
    Profit First: Building Your Financial Muscle Oct 09, 2025
    Show notes

    “When we implement Profit First Accounting Principles in your law firm, we begin by deciding ahead of time what percentage of every dollar of revenue we’re going to scoop off the top and protect for you and your family.” – RJon Robins, author of Profit First for Lawyers

    In this episode, Profit First certified controller, Veronica Zambrano joins us to break down exactly how to implement Profit First in your law firm (even if you’re in a cash crunch). Using her ‘financial gym’ approach, Veronica shares the simple practical rollout plan she uses with How To Manage A Small Law Firm (HTM) members. Building your way from a 1% allocation to your target percentage of 15% is just like progressively lifting heavier weights at the gym.

    Veronica shares her favorite clip of RJon in the studio taken from the Chapter 8 audiobook recording of the Profit First for Lawyers book. Then it’s time for show and tell as she walks us through how Profit First works using the HTM Profit First Allocation Calculator tool she uses for law firm owners. (screenshots below)

    Veronica also addresses the fear that stops many law firm owners from starting Profit First and why waiting for the “right moment” is the wrong strategy. Over the years, she has seen the system work time and time again with law firm owners who were tired of their excuses and ready to take action to become profitable.

    Key Takeaways:

    • The best time to start Profit First is when you make the decision, not when your firm is “profitable enough”
    • Starting at just 1% makes a real difference without compromising your operations
    • The system is flexible, reevaluate every quarter and adjust based on your businesses’s actual performance

    Resource: Profit Leak Assessment

    The Profit Leak Assessment is a practical, on-demand course to help law firm owners find thousands of dollars in potential profit leaks. Karli teamed up with Evelyn Aucoin, Financial Literacy and Strategy Expert with How To Manage A Small Law Firm to create this resource for law firm owners. Click the link below to start plugging the profit leaks in your firm. Your future self will thank you for it!

    Profit Leak Assessment: Click to begin your free assessment.

    Connect and Engage:

    • Mentioned: Profit First Assessment Calculator
    • Subscribe to the Profit First for Lawyers podcast
    • Watch episodes on YouTube
    • Follow Profit First For Lawyers on social media: LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook
    • And most importantly, order your copy of Profit First for Lawyers today!
    Challenging The Status Quo Oct 07, 2025
    Show notes

    “While you may be a bold, independent thinker when it comes to the practice of law and in other areas of your life, there’s a very good chance that you’ve been thinking a lot like a lemming when it comes to the profitability of your law firm.” – RJon Robins, author of Profit First for Lawyers

    In this episode we revisit a crucial topic from season one that deserves a fresh look, especially if your accountant or bookkeeper has been pushing back against Profit First. For deeper insights, take a look at Chapter 8 from the Profit First for Lawyers book about why GAAP was not meant for you.

    In a clip pulled from the original 2021 livestream recording, RJon challenges the conventional wisdom of GAAP (Generally Accepted Accounting Principles). He explains why blindly following rules created in the 1930s by 18 accountants trying to appease Wall Street regulators may be preventing your law firm from reaching its full potential. The fact is, GAAP was not designed with your small law firm’s profitability in mind.

    Key Takeaways:

    • GAAP was designed for publicly traded companies in the 1930s, not for small independently owned law firms
    • GAAP solves problems you probably don’t have and uses criteria you may not share
    • Your bookkeeper or accountant should not dictate how much profit you’re allowed to keep from your business

    If you’ve been accepting “that’s just the way it is” as an answer when it comes to your law firm’s finances, it’s time to challenge that thinking. The status quo was not designed for your success.

    Take Action:

    1. Schedule one hour this week to review your numbers and ask yourself: “What would happen if I decided today how much profit I was going to keep?”
    2. Take control of your financial system. Stop letting your bookkeeper or accountant dictate your profit. Design a system that puts you, your family, and your profit first.
    3. Read Chapter 8 of Profit First for Lawyers: RJon outlines the practical specifics of GAAP’s intended purpose and why you can choose to opt for a Profit First system instead.

    Resource: Profit Leak Assessment

    The Profit Leak Assessment is a practical, on-demand course to help law firm owners find thousands of dollars in potential profit leaks. Karli teamed up with Evelyn Aucoin, Financial Literacy and Strategy Expert with How To Manage A Small Law Firm to create this resource for law firm owners. Click the link below to start plugging the profit leaks in your firm. Your future self will thank you for it!

    Profit Leak Assessment: Click to begin your free assessment.

    Connect and Engage:

    • GAAP Was Not Meant For You episode: video | audio from Chapter 8 of the Profit First for Lawyers book
    • Subscribe to the Profit First for Lawyers podcast
    • Watch episodes on YouTube
    • Follow Profit First For Lawyers on social media: LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook
    • And most importantly, order your copy of Profit First for Lawyers today!
    Total Owner Benefits: More Than Gross Revenue Oct 02, 2025
    Show notes

    “Everywhere you go, people are going to begin celebrating their gross revenue. And I don’t want you to let that mess with your head right? Because you need to understand total owner benefits.” – RJon Robins, author of Profit First for Lawyers

    In this episode, Michigan appellate attorney Liisa Speaker shared her seven-year journey with Profit First. Liisa reveals how she started at just 1% profit allocation in 2018 and then paid off law firm debt, tackled law school loans, funded major home improvements, and now uses her profit account to save for her daughters’ college education. She brings a clip from the studio recording of chapter 9 of the Profit First for Lawyers book where RJon explains why understanding Total Owner Benefits, not just gross revenue, is the key to measuring your firm’s true success.

    Key Takeaways

    • Comparing profit margins between firms is misleading without understanding total owner benefits on both sides
    • Start slow and let it grow. At least 1% is enough to make a difference over time and not enough to compromise your firm’s financials
    • Set clear goals for your Profit First account. Know where your quarterly distributions are going
    • Having systems in place takes away the fear of managing finances and allows you to see problems before they become crises
    • Implement weekly cash flow forecasting. This helps you to see problems 3-6 weeks beforehand which allows you to course correct before they become real issues.

    If any of these takeaways resonate with you, it might be time to examine where your law firm stands when it comes to total owner benefits. The good news is that understanding what your numbers are telling you is a learnable skill with the right systems in place.

    Resource: Profit Leak Assessment

    The Profit Leak Assessment is a practical, on-demand course to help law firm owners find thousands of dollars in potential profit leaks. Karli teamed up with Evelyn Aucoin, Financial Literacy and Strategy Expert with How To Manage A Small Law Firm to create this resource for law firm owners. Click the link below to start plugging the profit leaks in your firm. Your future self will thank you for it!

    Profit Leak Assessment: Click to begin your free assessment.

    Connect and Engage:

    • Connect directly with Liisa Speaker at www.speakerlaw.com or www.liisaspeaker.com
    • Full Total Owner Benefits video from Chapter 9
    • Subscribe to the Profit First for Lawyers podcast
    • Watch episodes on YouTube
    • Follow Profit First For Lawyers on social media: LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook
    • And most importantly, order your copy of Profit First for Lawyers today!
    The Hidden Cost of Missing Financial Controls Sep 30, 2025
    Show notes

    “So I may wind up sacrificing some precious time with my family to solve that potential new client’s problem and still have no financial profit to show for it. This simple misalignment explains more problems in the legal industry than I can address in this small book.” – RJon Robins, author of Profit First for Lawyers

    In this episode, we dive into Chapter 6 of the Profit First for Lawyers book and explore a deceptively simple yet powerful concept: the definition of profit. RJon explains what a profitable exchange actually is and shares a personal story about the trade-offs he makes as a dad and business owner. More importantly, he reveals why lawyers without financial controls often sacrifice time with family while gaining no financial profit in return. This is a recipe for burnout that affects far too many law firm owners.

    Key Takeaways:

    • Profit isn’t just about numbers on a spreadsheet, it’s about the value on both sides of every transaction
    • Without a profit protection system, every client engagement becomes a gamble with your time and peace of mind
    • The misalignment between effort and reward explains more problems in the legal industry than most realize
    • If you wouldn’t work for free at someone else’s firm, you shouldn’t work for free in your own either

    If any of these takeaways resonate with you, it might be time to examine where your firm stands when it comes to profit. Without financial controls in place, you’re essentially gambling every time you take on a client, betting your time, energy, and family relationships without knowing if there will be anything left for you at the end. That’s not just exhausting, it’s unsustainable. The good news is that this misalignment is fixable with the right systems in place.

    Resource: Profit Leak Assessment:

    The Profit Leak Assessment is a practical, on-demand course to help law firm owners find thousands of dollars in potential profit leaks. Karli teamed up with Evelyn Aucoin, Financial Literacy and Strategy Expert with How To Manage A Small Law Firm to create this resource for law firm owners. Click the link below to start plugging the profit leaks in your firm. Your future self will thank you for it!

    Profit Leak Assessment: Click to begin your free assessment.

    Connect and Engage:

    • Related episode from Season 1
    • Subscribe to the Profit First for Lawyers podcast
    • Watch episodes on YouTube
    • Follow Profit First For Lawyers on social media: LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook
    • And most importantly, order your copy of Profit First for Lawyers today!
    A Client’s Perspective: Profit Shouldn’t Be Optional Sep 25, 2025
    Show notes

    “So you’re meeting with your prospective new client… And they’re about to sign the engagement agreement, and you say, ‘Hold on a second. I need to share some information with you.‘ ‘Oh, what’s that?‘ ‘Well, you need to know that my law firm is not very profitable.’ “

    – RJon Robins, author of Profit First for Lawyers

    This is part two of our series that challenges the belief that focusing on profit is selfish. If you’ve missed part one, “Why Profit Shouldn’t Be Optional”, pause here and listen to that episode first. In this episode, RJon takes his argument even further with a provocative thought experiment. What if you had to disclose your firm’s financial instability to every prospective client before they signed? He contrasts this uncomfortable scenario with the confidence and integrity that comes from running a truly profitable law firm.

    Key Takeaways:

    • Understanding why financial transparency builds stronger client relationships
    • Examining how financial struggles impact client service delivery
    • Why Profit First allows you to authentically promise stability and complete focus to your clients
    • How running a profitable firm creates a competitive advantage
    • Recognizing that financial stability isn’t only about your paycheck, it’s also about the integrity of your client promises

    This episode demonstrates how Profit First enables law firms to focus on client needs with genuine confidence and integrity rather than their own business and personal financial survival.

    Resource: Profit Leak Assessment

    The Profit Leak Assessment is a practical, on-demand course to help law firm owners find thousands of dollars in potential profit leaks. Karli teamed up with Evelyn Aucoin, Financial Literacy and Strategy Expert with How To Manage A Small Law Firm to create this resource for law firm owners. Click the link below to start plugging the profit leaks in your firm. Your future self will thank you for it!

    Profit Leak Assessment: Click to begin your free assessment.

    Connect and Engage

    • Mentioned: Part 1 of this series: Why Profit Shouldn’t Be Optional
    • Subscribe to the Profit First for Lawyers podcast
    • Watch episodes on YouTube
    • Follow Profit First For Lawyers on social media: LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook
    • And most importantly, order your copy of Profit First for Lawyers today!
    Why Profit Shouldn’t Be Optional Sep 23, 2025
    Show notes

    “It’s a practical impossibility to practice law well in an unprofitable law firm. Why? Because you need money to pay for things.” – RJon Robins, author of Profit First for Lawyers

    This is the first of a two-part series that challenges the belief among law firm owners, that focusing on profit is somehow selfish or unethical. If you’ve ever felt guilty about prioritizing your firm’s profitability, this episode will go a long way toward shifting your perspective on profit. RJon tackles the uncomfortable truth that running an unprofitable law firm doesn’t just make your life harder, it makes it impossible to serve your clients at your highest standards.

    Key Takeaways

    • Personal financial stress directly impacts your ability to serve clients effectively
    • There’s a disconnect between what your marketing promises and what can realistically be delivered when cash flow is unstable
    • Financial stability is not about greed, it’s about professional responsibility

    This episode serves as a wake-up call that profitability is not an optional “nice to have”, it’s an ethical imperative for delivering the services your clients deserve.

    Resource: Profit Leak Assessment

    The Profit Leak Assessment is a practical, on-demand course to help law firm owners find thousands of dollars in potential profit leaks. Karli teamed up with Evelyn Aucoin, Financial Literacy and Strategy Expert with How To Manage A Small Law Firm to create this resource for law firm owners. Click the link below to start plugging the profit leaks in your firm. Your future self will thank you for it!

    Profit Leak Assessment: Click to begin your free assessment.

    Connect and Engage

    • Subscribe to the Profit First for Lawyers podcast
    • Watch episodes on YouTube
    • Follow Profit First For Lawyers on social media: LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook

    And most importantly, order your copy of Profit First for Lawyers today!

    It’s Never Too Late for Profit First Sep 18, 2025
    Show notes

    “A much healthier approach. A much more rational approach is to begin by deciding what you want out of your business first… After all the business is supposed to be there to give you a better life too, isn’t it?” – RJon Robins, author of Profit First for Lawyers

    In this episode we hear about a common challenge among law firm owners: feast or famine finances. If this feels all too familiar then this episode is exactly what you need to hear because it is never too late to begin your Profit First journey. But don’t just take our word for it. Law firm owner, Sarah Phillips from Phillips Law in New Orleans, Louisiana joins us to talk about the transformational journey she and fellow law firm owner Bradley Phillips have been on since beginning to take their profits first. This husband-and-wife legal team’s transformation story proves that taking profits isn’t about greed, it’s about stability and treating your business like the asset it should be.

    RJon in the Studio

    Sarah brought her favorite clip from the Profit First for Lawyers book pages 166-167 where RJon discusses “The Primacy Effect” and how it impacts business profitability. He explains how profit must be baked into every transaction instead of being treated as an afterthought, which is the traditional approach to cash management. This mindset shift forces business owners to be creative and make tough decisions at work rather than at home.

    Key Takeaways

    • Profit cannot be treated as an event, it must be treated as a habit
    • It is not greed to pay yourself consistently, you deserve compensation just like any employee
    • You don’t have to implement every aspect of Profit First all at once
    • When your business cannot pay you, it is a red flag that something is broken and needs fixing
    • The business model should work for you, not the other way around

    Get Started Now

    So how does someone actually get started with these concepts? Sarah’s advice for hesitant law firm owners is simple: start with baby steps. Begin by paying yourself first consistently and see how it changes your business mindset. Financial stability eases the mental load many business owners experience and allows more strategic and less emotional decision making when challenges aka “problem-tunities” arise. Sarah says they are now able to quickly identify what’s not working and come up with logical solutions since they started taking their profits first.

    Resource: Profit Leak Assessment

    The Profit Leak Assessment is a practical, on-demand course to help law firm owners find thousands of dollars in potential profit leaks. Karli teamed up with Evelyn Aucoin, Financial Literacy and Strategy Expert with How To Manage A Small Law Firm to create this resource for law firm owners. Click the link below to start plugging the profit leaks in your firm. Your future self will thank you for it!

    Profit Leak Assessment: Click to begin your free assessment.

    Connect and Engage

    • Connect with Sarah Phillips directly by visiting: www.nolacriminaldefense.com
    • Mentioned in this episode: Mike Michalowicz episode – Profit First – More Than Just A Book
    • Subscribe to the Profit First for Lawyers podcast
    • Watch episodes on YouTube
    • Follow Profit First For Lawyers on social media: LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook

    And most importantly, order your copy of Profit First for Lawyers today!

    The 2 Choices That Sabotage Law Firm Profits Sep 16, 2025
    Show notes

    “Remember, your bookkeeper is a bookkeeper, not a mindreader, and it is the height of entrepreneurial immaturity for a law firm owner to criticize a bookkeeper for not knowing what is nearly impossible for a bookkeeper to know without speaking to the owner of the business.” – RJon Robins, author of Profit First for Lawyers

    When law firm owners make these two critical choices, they wind up sabotaging their profitability:

    1. Nitpicking irrelevant bookkeeping details.
    2. Avoiding their bookkeeper altogether.

    Both choices are a strong indicator that you may be afraid of profit. Avoiding the bigger questions about your firm’s financial reality results in poor strategic decisions. As we’ve heard in previous episodes, numbers tell a story and your bookkeeper is specifically qualified to help you understand what the story means for your business. The solution is engaging maturely with the financial information needed to make profitable decisions.

    To follow along with RJon’s narration from segments of the Profit First for Lawyers book, go to Chapter 16 which begins on page 153.

    Key Takeaways:

    • Nitpicking bookkeepers about pens vs. pencils while missing bigger financial issues may indicate profit avoidance
    • Avoiding your bookkeeper leads to inaccurate financials and bad business decisions
    • Schedule regular meetings with your financial professionals and actually show up (and come prepared)
    • Ask what stories your numbers tell about your business, not whether expenses are perfectly categorized

    Resource: Profit Leak Assessment

    The Profit Leak Assessment is a practical, on-demand course to help law firm owners find thousands of dollars in potential profit leaks. Karli teamed up with Evelyn Aucoin, Financial Literacy and Strategy Expert with How To Manage A Small Law Firm to create this resource for law firm owners. Click the link below to start plugging the profit leaks in your firm. Your future self will thank you for it!

    Connect and Engage

    • Subscribe to the Profit First for Lawyers podcast
    • Watch episodes on YouTube
    • Follow Profit First For Lawyers on social media: LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook

    And most importantly, order your copy of Profit First for Lawyers today!

    Move Your Feet to Move Your Mind Sep 11, 2025
    Show notes

    “The mindset of so many lawyers in the legal industry is that if I’m having law firm management problems, it must be that I’m just not a good enough lawyer, which of course is nonsense.” – RJon Robins, author of Profit First for Lawyers

    In this episode we are joined by Charlee Spilker, Profit First certified controller at How To Manage A Small Law Firm. She shares wisdom pulled from over 30 years in finance and accounting as well as her horse training experience and applies it to law firm profitability. RJon’s powerful clip reveals why many lawyers struggle with business management, while Charlee’s horse story provides a good example of how unconventional methods offer a solution for law firm owners (and horses) who are stuck. If this has been your struggle, then this episode is for you. Charlee’s approach to starting your law firm’s Profit First journey is simple:

    1. Make the decision to sign up to begin using Profit First accounting principles.
    2. Open the bank accounts you’ll need to implement Profit First.
    3. Start allocating funds to those accounts.

    The key is being willing to change what’s not working, even when conventional thinking says you should stick with what you know. As Charlee puts it, “What you did 10 years ago doesn’t work today, you’ve got to be ready to pivot.”

    Key Takeaways:

    • The need to be “right” keeps lawyers stuck in unprofitable patterns
    • Law school teaches law, not business management
    • Move your feet before moving your mind – take action even when you’re not convinced
    • You can’t cut your way to profit, you have to invest your way to profit
    • Profit isn’t just about finances, it includes personal and professional satisfaction

    Resource: Profit Leak Assessment

    The Profit Leak Assessment is a practical, on-demand course to help law firm owners find thousands of dollars in potential profit leaks. Karli teamed up with Evelyn Aucoin, Financial Literacy and Strategy Expert with How To Manage A Small Law Firm to create this resource for law firm owners. Click the link below to start plugging the profit leaks in your firm. Your future self will thank you for it!

    Connect and Engage

    • Subscribe to the Profit First for Lawyers podcast
    • Link to Xavier Martine’s episode
    • Watch episodes on YouTube
    • Follow Profit First For Lawyers on social media: LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook

    And most importantly, order your copy of Profit First for Lawyers today!

    What Do You Really Want? Sep 09, 2025
    Show notes

    “These are lawyers who have the potential to have such a huge positive impact on the world, and instead they keep struggling because their law firm isn’t successful enough.” – RJon Robins, author of Profit First for Lawyers

    What do you want from your law firm and your life? Not what you need. Not what you will tolerate. What do you actually want?

    This episode will challenge you to think bigger as RJon exposes the “doctrine of sacrifice” which is the perverse pride lawyers take in suffering, working excessive hours, and bragging about how unprofitable their firms are. Through a powerful live-streamed early version of what eventually became the Profit First for Lawyers book, RJon explains why building what you want is actually easier than slogging through what you’ll merely tolerate.

    Key Takeaways:

    • Your mindset matters more than how hard you work or where you went to law school
    • Building a profitable law firm is easier (and more rewarding) than building an unprofitable law firm
    • Unprofitable firms force you into decisions you’ll regret (like accepting problem clients)
    • Lawyers often compete over who works more hours and has more accounts receivable

    RJon’s mission is to liberate entrepreneurial law firm owners from the doctrine of sacrifice so they can do more good in the world. When your firm isn’t profitable enough, it forces compromises that weigh you down. RJon challenges law firm owners to start building the profitable practice that delivers the life you actually want.

    Resource: Business Plan Bootcamp

    If you’re a lawyer with big dreams who is ready to build a profitable firm, How To Manage A Small Law Firm offers a 5-Week Business Plan Bootcamp that is a blueprint for the practice and life you want. Click the link to join the next intensely valuable session.

    Connect and Engage

    • Subscribe to the Profit First for Lawyers podcast
    • Watch episodes on YouTube
    • Follow Profit First For Lawyers on social media: LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook

    And most importantly, order your copy of Profit First for Lawyers today!

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