The Profit First for Lawyers podcast is the companion show to the book, Profit First for Lawyers by RJon Robins. The goal of the book and podcast are to empower lawyers with practical and actionable information to help them improve their lives by putting their family, their firm, and their Profits First.
“The problem is most people don’t take the time to think about their definition of success. Which is kind of ironic considering that as lawyers, we are trained that the first thing you do when you’re drafting a contract or making a settlement agreement is you have to define the terms.” – RJon Robins, author of Profit First for Lawyers
Welcome to the latest season of the Profit First for Lawyers podcast. In this season premiere, we tackle the foundation that makes everything else possible: defining success in measurable terms. Most lawyers spend decades building their firms without ever defining what “successful” actually means to them. In this episode, RJon reveals his three-part framework and demonstrates exactly how to transform vague aspirations into trackable, achievable goals.
The Success Framework
Pulled directly from Chapter 4 in the Profit First for Lawyers book, RJon defines a successful law firm as one that achieves:
Financial Success: Generates enough total owner benefits for you to live the way you WANT to live. Not just what you are willing to settle for.
Personal Success: Operates with systems robust enough to give you freedom of time for every aspect of life.
Professional Success: Generates revenue by helping people solve problems and create better futures.
Make It Measurable
RJon demonstrates the process of how to define success during a powerful clip from 2016 with a real law firm owner. He guides them through how to define and measure success financially, personally, and professionally.
As RJon states, without measurable definitions, “there’s room to bullshit yourself.” Beautiful sentiments about spending more time with family, or revenue or fitness goals are aspirational, but not measurable. By defining success objectively, it becomes a standard that can be tracked and therefore achievable.
How you define success is entirely up to you. Not friends, family, colleagues, or neighbors. It is personal and only your opinion matters. Your definition must be personal, honest, and quantifiable.
Take Action Today
Define success in measurable terms:
How much profit do you need to live the way you WANT? (Financial)
What specific freedoms does your business need to provide? (Personal)
How will you measure your professional impact? (Professional)
How will you track progress toward these success goals? (Measurement)
And most importantly, order your copy of Profit First for Lawyers today!
https://youtu.be/irTjJV9uoL0?si=ghzOc40Ga-FJm6Y_
A Profit First Epiphany
Nov 12, 2025
Show notes
“If you implement what has been explained throughout this book, your law firm will definitely become more profitable. You will feel more confidence, and you will begin to experience the unique satisfaction that comes from being able to reliably put more of the revenue collected by your law firm into your own personal bank account.” – RJon Robins
In this season finale, we come full circle with RJon’s bold promise from the conclusion of Profit First for Lawyers: no hedge words then, no hedge words now. The reality is that implementing Profit First for yourself or your business yields results that surpass expectations. Karli shares her own Profit First epiphany only a few months after starting her own Profit First account.
The No-Nonsense Truth
In a powerful clip from the book’s conclusion, RJon doesn’t mince words: He didn’t write the book to teach. He wrote the book to help you get results. Most law firm owners will read, nod, make notes, then search for an easier way. But what works isn’t what’s easy; it’s what’s different from what everyone else has agreed is “normal”
Real Voices, Real Results
Hear directly from law firm owners about what happened to their business, their mindset, and the benefit they have seen in their lives when they took their profits first.
Rebecca Peters (Peters Law Firm): “Before we started (Profit First) the most we made was…$100,000. This is my one year anniversary and the firm just hit a $600,000 run rate.”
Daniel De Paz (De Paz Law): “You come to find out you have plenty of money and you can make more money if you take your profits first.”
Veronica Stachurski (Ward & Stachurski, PLLC): “..like the idea of 99% to %100 …at first it gave me a lot of anxiety and then it didn’t, because it’s really not that big of a difference.”
John Benson (Penglase & Benson): “When you start off at 1% and realize just how small that is…once you see you can do it…you have your profit no matter what..so it works out well.”
Devon Slovensky (Slovensky Divorce & Family Law): Profit First since 2018 – “I can’t imagine organizing my books any other way.”
The Promise Stands
RJon’s promise from Chapter 1 remains unchanged: Implement what’s in this book and your law firm WILL become more profitable. You WILL feel more confident. You WILL experience the unique satisfaction of putting more revenue into your personal bank account every month, every quarter, every year.
As RJon’s rallying cry says, “TAYEASTUYA: (Take all your excuses and shove them up your ass). And then? Take your profit first.
If these episodes have challenged and motivated you to take action toward a more profitable life, we’d love to hear about it.
Connect and Engage:
Send us your Profit First for Lawyers stores: podcast@profitfirstforlawyers.com
And most importantly, order your copy of Profit First for Lawyers today!
Break Through Your Profit First Mindset Blocks
Nov 06, 2025
Show notes
“So there’s a mindset problem going on here. How the owners of law firms think about what they think about, the excuses they make, the excuses they accept, the unexamined stories that they accept as gospel.” – RJon Robins
In this episode, we are joined by Erika Ferenczi, Director of Brand Promise at How To Manage Enterprises, to tackle the elephant in every law firm: the mindset blocks that keep lawyers from being profitable. With nearly two decades helping entrepreneurs grow their businesses, Erika reveals why so many brilliant lawyers struggle financially and shares jaw-dropping transformation stories.
In The Studio
In a clip from Chapter 4 of the Profit First for Lawyers book, RJon explains how law school creates a dangerous myth: that success will magically happen IF you are a good enough lawyer. Something he quickly debunks. Instead RJon suggests that it is how law firm owners think about what they think about in their business and lives that determines success. Why? Because at the core, success stems first from a profitable mindset.
Key Takeaways
Paying yourself first creates urgency that forces you out of your comfort zone
Remove the shame and negative connotation around making money for your services
Start the Profit First habit with any amount right off the top
The best thing you can do for the world is to be successful
When you win financially, everyone wins: your family, employees, clients, and your community
NEW PODCAST ALERT: The Exponential Entrepreneur
Erika announced the upcoming launch of The Exponential Entrepreneur podcast featuring lessons facilitated by RJon Robins, Alejandra Leibovich, Oscar Ferenczi, and Erika Ferenczi based on their Practical Profitable Mindset Program. Each week these four battle-tested entrepreneurs are sharing the mindset shifts every entrepreneur needs to experience exponential growth. Listeners are in for a treat as we share the trailer for this powerful new podcast.
Resource: Profit Leak Assessment
The Profit Leak Assessment is a practical, on-demand course to help law firm owners find thousands of dollars in potential profit leaks. Karli teamed up with Evelyn Aucoin, Financial Literacy and Strategy Expert with How To Manage A Small Law Firm to create this resource for law firm owners. Click the link below to start plugging the profit leaks in your firm. Your future self will thank you for it!
And most importantly, order your copy of Profit First for Lawyers today!
How Profit First Solves Your Law Firm’s Biggest Challenges
Nov 04, 2025
Show notes
“There are too many great lawyers with loads of potential, but not enough profits to invest in more consistent marketing and more professional sales systems. Too many of these great lawyers are frustrated and cannot live up to their full potential.” – RJon Robins
In this episode we revisit the seven main parts of every successful law firm and explore what happens when one of these critical components falls out of alignment. RJon walks through five all-too-common nightmare scenarios that plague law firms. He dissects how great marketing with bad sales is as challenging as having great lawyers but lacking financial controls. The kicker? Profit First gives you the tools to solve most of these problems before they sink your firm.
The Seven Main Parts Refresher
We covered these seven parts in detail in season one. Click the link for each part to hear those episodes. Of course, these seven main parts can also be read in Chapter 5 beginning on page 32 in the Profit First for Lawyers book.
When these parts are aligned, your business runs smoothly, grows faster, and you are able to live the life you want professionally, personally, and financially. When they are not? Welcome to the nightmare scenarios which can be found in Chapter 4 beginning on page 21 in the Profit First for Lawyers book.
Five Nightmare Scenarios (And Why They’re Killing Your Profits)
Great Marketing, Bad Sales
Great Marketing and Sales, But Not Enough Staff Capacity
Amazing Lawyers and Staff, But Bad Marketing
Great Everything, But Poor Infrastructure
Potential for Greatness, But No Financial Controls
The Profit First Solution
As RJon says: “Profit First solves most of these problems, or rather, implementing Profit First gives you the tools with which you can solve most of these problems.”
Resource: Profit Leak Assessment
The Profit Leak Assessment is a practical, on-demand course to help law firm owners find thousands of dollars in potential profit leaks. Karli teamed up with Evelyn Aucoin, Financial Literacy and Strategy Expert with How To Manage A Small Law Firm to create this resource for law firm owners. Click the link below to start plugging the profit leaks in your firm. Your future self will thank you for it!
Connect and Engage:
Mentioned: Pop Quiz on pages 26 & 27 in the Profit First for Lawyers book
And most importantly, order your copy of Profit First for Lawyers today!
Profit First: The Right Choice
Oct 30, 2025
Show notes
”Those of us who embrace Profit First as a way of life, we force ourselves to get creative with the money we have left over in the account for operating expenses.” – RJon Robins, author of Profit First for Lawyers
In this episode, Joam Alisme shares why implementing Profit First was the right choice for his firm and why it’s time for fence-sitting law firm owners to take the leap. As RJon explains in the featured clip from the Profit First Summary chapter in the book (page 165), “We believe it’s better to make tough choices in business than to have to make tougher choices at home.” Joam’s story proves this point, by choosing to follow Profit First methodology, he has transformed his practice from a $60,000-a-year firm in 2020 to a firm that is approaching seven figures just five years later.
The Five Foundational Accounts
In the clip from the audiobook recording session, RJon explains how the Profit First methodology operates with five foundational bank accounts:
Main Income
Profits (starting with just 1%)
Owner’s Salary
Taxes
Operating Expenses
By separating revenue into these accounts, law firm owners naturally embrace financial portion control, just like Mike Michalowicz’s grandmother used to separate the family income into different envelopes for different purposes.
From Scrambling to Systematic
Joam shares how he went from scrambling to pay taxes to having a systematic approach with dedicated accounts. Starting with just 1% for profit, he gradually increased the percentage as the business grew. The results speak for themselves: travel to exotic locations, paid-off credit card debt, student loans nearly gone, and purchasing his first property – all while growing his law firm.
Resource: Profit Leak Assessment
The Profit Leak Assessment is a practical, on-demand course to help law firm owners find thousands of dollars in potential profit leaks. Karli teamed up with Evelyn Aucoin, Financial Literacy and Strategy Expert with How To Manage A Small Law Firm, to create this resource for law firm owners. Click the link below to start plugging the profit leaks in your firm. Your future self will thank you for it!
And most importantly, order your copy of Profit First for Lawyers today!
Sacrifices That Actually Matter
Oct 28, 2025
Show notes
“ So people who believe in the doctrine of sacrifice encourage sacrifice and take pride in sacrifice for its own sake. I believe that profit is good. That profit comes from the exchange of something of a lower value to gain something else that is of a higher value.” – RJon Robins, author of Profit First for Lawyers
The legal industry has a problem with glorifying suffering. In this final episode of our three-part series on escaping the doctrine of sacrifice, we flip the script on what sacrifice really means for law firm owners. In two compelling clips from the 2021 livestream that became the foundation of the Profit First for Lawyers book, RJon Robins shares key insights about profitable sacrifice. He challenges the belief that creating value requires endless suffering and shows how to make sacrifices that actually expand your life rather than diminish it.
Key Takeaways:
Reframe sacrifices as investments
Stop calling self-neglect service
Profit is evidence of mutual value, not greed
Choose sacrifices that expand you and make your life bigger, not smaller
Real profit benefits both parties
In this episode, RJon reframes sacrifice through the lens of profit. This fundamental shift transforms how to understand sacrifice, from martyrdom to mutual profit, from suffering to strategic investment, from bleeding for your business to building a real business that works for you.
Resource: Profit Leak Assessment
The Profit Leak Assessment is a practical, on-demand course to help law firm owners find thousands of dollars in potential profit leaks. Karli teamed up with Evelyn Aucoin, Financial Literacy and Strategy Expert with How To Manage A Small Law Firm to create this resource for law firm owners. Click the link below to start plugging the profit leaks in your firm. Your future self will thank you for it!
Connect and Engage:
Link to Part 1 and Part 2 of Escaping the Doctrine of Sacrifice series
And most importantly, order your copy of Profit First for Lawyers today!
Law Firm Growth by Design
Oct 23, 2025
Show notes
“In addition to the typical financial statements… there are other key performance indicators and metrics that you’re going to want to keep track of on your dashboard so that you can look at a glance to see if everything’s working properly under the hood.” – RJon Robins, author of Profit First for Lawyer
Inspect what you expect. That’s the mindset behind this episode. Law firm owner Josephia Rouse shares how transforming her approach to financial management helped her move from reactive to intentional. This episode features an audiobook clip from Chapter 5, Part 6: Money & Metrics, where RJon uses car gauges to illustrate why every profitable law firm needs a financial dashboard.
By building systems, dashboards, and tracking daily metrics, Josephia has learned to read her firm’s ‘gauges’ bringing her financial clarity, control, and confidence. With the right people (bookkeeper, controller, and CFO) in place, she turned her firm into a well-designed business that supports her team, her clients, and her family’s goals.
The result: a thriving 22-person law firm built not by accident, but by design.
Key Takeaways
Track your firm’s gauges daily: Like a car dashboard, your metrics reveal what’s running smoothly and what needs attention.
Inspect what you expect: Systems and data only work when you review them consistently and act upon what they show you.
Invest in the right people: Delegating to qualified professionals allows you to focus on your highest-value work.
Choose to grow: True transformation starts with a decision to build, learn, and take ownership of your numbers.
Build your stairs: Progress happens one spreadsheet, one system, one habit at a time.
Resource: Profit Leak Assessment
The Profit Leak Assessment is a practical, on-demand course to help law firm owners find thousands of dollars in potential profit leaks. Karli teamed up with Evelyn Aucoin, Financial Literacy and Strategy Expert with How To Manage A Small Law Firm to create this resource for law firm owners. Click the link below to start plugging the profit leaks in your firm. Your future self will thank you for it!
And most importantly, order your copy of Profit First for Lawyers today!
The True Cost of Sacrifice
Oct 21, 2025
Show notes
“Lawyers who are broke are not in a position to do much good… Not for their clients, their family, their community, least of all themselves.” – RJon Robins, author of Profit First for Lawyers
In Part 2 of our series on Escaping the Doctrine of Sacrifice, we dive deep into the belief system itself. RJon further explores the idea that suffering somehow makes us good, working ourselves into the ground is noble, and that profit is something to be ashamed of. He references the philosophy from the How To Manage A Small Law Firm employee handbook that every team member reads it during onboarding.
In a clip taken from the 2021 livestream which would eventually become the Profit First for Lawyers book, RJon challenges the legal industry’s celebration of sacrifice for its own sake. The true cost? It drains your resources, time, and capacity to serve. Instead, RJon offers a profitable alternative rooted in stewardship, not selfishness.
Key Takeaways
The Doctrine of Sacrifice celebrate giving up what you value for what you don’t value
The legal industry encourages sacrifice in overt and implicit ways:
The billable hour
Pro bono awards for lawyers who can barely provide for their own families
Censuring the word “profit”
Being broke drains you of financial resources, time, mental energy, and the capacity to serve your clients well
Profit isn’t selfish, it’s stewardship that ensures you’re resourced enough to serve at your highest level
The Doctrine of Sacrifice is something most lawyers don’t even realize they’ve been influenced by it. But when you glorify struggle, burnout, and endless hours without measuring the value created, you are practicing sacrifice for its own sake, and that helps no one.
Resource: Profit Leak Assessment
The Profit Leak Assessment is a practical, on-demand course to help law firm owners find thousands of dollars in potential profit leaks. Karli teamed up with Evelyn Aucoin, Financial Literacy and Strategy Expert with How To Manage A Small Law Firm to create this resource for law firm owners. Click the link below to start plugging the profit leaks in your firm. Your future self will thank you for it!
And most importantly, order your copy of Profit First for Lawyers today!
Beyond the Bottom Line
Oct 16, 2025
Show notes
“It depends on what you mean by profit. This answer will set you free, and as a result, this way of thinking will make your law firm far more profitable.” – RJon Robins, author of Profit First for Lawyers
Defining Profit
What does profit really mean to you? For estate planning attorney Ali Goff, the answer goes far beyond “revenue minus expenses.” In this episode, Ali shares how understanding total owner benefits (time freedom, lifestyle choices, and peace of mind) completely transformed how she runs her firm and designs her life. When faced with a difficult quarter, her commitment to taking distributions even when it felt uncomfortable, forced better decisions and ultimately led to breakthrough growth. Ali’s journey from dismissing Profit First to embracing it reveals why redefining profit is the key to building both a successful business and a meaningful life.
Key Takeaways
The business should fund the life you want to live
High standards benefit your team, your clients, and your business
Your definition of profit should align with your life goals, not just accounting principles
Consistency in distributions matters more than the size of the distribution
If you only take distributions when it’s comfortable, you’re not really doing Profit First
Understanding what profit really means for your business and life changes everything about how you run your firm and measure success.
Resource: Profit Leak Assessment
The Profit Leak Assessment is a practical, on-demand course to help law firm owners find thousands of dollars in potential profit leaks. Karli teamed up with Evelyn Aucoin, Financial Literacy and Strategy Expert with How To Manage A Small Law Firm to create this resource for law firm owners. Click the link below to start plugging the profit leaks in your firm. Your future self will thank you for it!
And most importantly, order your copy of Profit First for Lawyers today!
Escaping the Doctrine of Sacrifice: The Role of Luck
Oct 14, 2025
Show notes
“It is a sign of extreme entrepreneurial immaturity to discount or dismiss or ignore, or not even be aware that there’s some luck involved in your success.” – RJon Robins, author of Profit First for Lawyers
Welcome to our three-part series on The Doctrine of Sacrifice. This is RJon’s personal crusade to free entrepreneurs, especially lawyers from the long-held belief that sacrifice is noble and that focusing on profit is somehow morally wrong. In this first episode we explore how understanding the role of luck can actually make you more profitable. In clips taken from a 2021 livestream, RJon shares a passage from the How To Manage A Small Law Firm internal employee handbook. Something that every team member reads during their onboarding process. This passage blends ideas from Ayn Rand, Eric Hoffer, and RJon’s own experience to explain why luck is essential for long term success.
Key Takeaways:
Success and failure both involve luck
If you continue to make rational decisions and don’t quit, luck will eventually work in your favor
Perpetual lack of success isn’t just bad luck, it’s often a pattern of poor decision making
Understanding luck’s role frees you to take calculated risks without fear of “breaking” your success
So, if you’ve been attributing your struggles entirely to bad luck or your success entirely to brilliance, this reframe changes everything about how you run your firm.
Resource: Profit Leak Assessment
The Profit Leak Assessment is a practical, on-demand course to help law firm owners find thousands of dollars in potential profit leaks. Karli teamed up with Evelyn Aucoin, Financial Literacy and Strategy Expert with How To Manage A Small Law Firm to create this resource for law firm owners. Click the link below to start plugging the profit leaks in your firm. Your future self will thank you for it!
Connect and Engage:
Coming up next week: Part 2 of Escaping the Doctrine of Sacrifice
More information about The Doctrine of Sacrifice can be found at the end of Chapter 6 in the Profit First for Lawyers book
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