Show notes
DURING THIS PODCAST TOPICS SUCH AS SUICIDE, SELF HARM AND MENTAL ILLNESS ARE DISCUSSED. IF THIS IS A TRIGGER OR MAKES YOU UNCOMFORTABLE, LOOK AFTER YOURSELF AND DON’T FEEL LIKE YOU HAVE TO LISTEN. In episode 098 I put out an episode about my personal experience with depression. Not long after that Erik (you will remember him from episode 039) messaged me expressing how much he related to the episode. Erik explained that he was currently going through something similar and wanted to come on and have a conversation with me about it. Erik is by far one of my favourite OT’s on the planet and his honestly and vulnerability in this conversation simply confirmed that for me. This conversation was one of those ones that I can genuinely say wasn’t an interview, it was just two mates catching up and having a deep and meaningful conversation. Thankyou Erik. If you don’t already follow him then definitely check him out here: https://www.instagram.com/p/B4Tn0bMh_Vj/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link Look after yourself, look after others and always keep Occupied Brock@brockcookOTbrock.cook@me.comwww.occupiedpodcast.com If you want even more valuable content join <<Occupied Plus+ on Patreon>> for bonus podcast episodes, resources, mentorship and much much more! Transcription Brock Cook 0:00Hi, and welcome. My friend, Eric Johnson approached me or shoot me a message after I released the episode, where I explained about my journey with depression and said, Dude, I want to come back on the show. I’m having my own experience of pretty much what you described in that episode. And I don’t want to have a chat about it. So here we are, I will tell you that there are definite trigger warnings during this conversation, we talk about suicide, we talk about depression, there is some mention of some traumatic incidences that Eric experienced while overseas in Afghanistan. So those things make you uncomfortable, then please don’t feel like you have to listen. This is by far and away one of the most vulnerable and connected interviews I’ve ever had the pleasure of doing. And I got so much out of it. So I really hope that you can get equally as much out of it. So without further ado, let’s roll the intro and get this episode going. Get a My name is Brock Cook, and welcome to occupied. In this podcast, we’re aiming to put the occupation in occupational therapy, we explore the people, topics, theories and underpinnings that make this profession so incredible. If you’re new here, you can find all of our previous episodes and resources at occupied podcast.com. But for now, let’s roll the episode. How you been? Erik Johnson 1:48You know, I’m okay. I’ve been in a pretty rough spot, you know, have? Probably, I mean, you know, no question, that pandemic has certainly put a damper on a lot of things in life and, you know, you get kind of starts to get in your head and you, you know, start thinking like, will this ever end, you know, and then you start thinking about all the other things that are negative in your life, and so it just kind of starts to fester. And, and so I’m kind of, you know, in this place where I just can’t kind of dig out of a pole, you know, and so, I’m gonna, okay, you know, like, I actually told my boss the other day, just, I broke down to her just said, I’m not doing well, you know, and I started crying, just like, I know, that I probably have this happy face on. And I certainly am going to be a professional for the students, but I’m not doing so hot, you know. And, and she totally gets it. So I’m thankful that I have, you know, somebody that understands that, you know, there’s these depths that are hard to dig out of, you know, Brock Cook 3:00yeah. And I think that it was interesting, like, after I put out that because I put out that like a like a Facebook post, whenever that was like December. And that got like, a really massive reception from people I knew and people I didn’t know. And I had a few people that were like, Oh, you need to like, you should do an episode like you need to, but you should do like an episode and sort of go into more depth. I’d already kind of thought about it. And I’m like, Oh, yeah, okay, I’ll get around to it. And then, yeah, when I put that out, the other day, it I was getting messages from so many people, like people I know, like you and then random people I’d never heard of, like sharing sharing their stories, or those people that, you know, we’re going through it sort of right now. And hadn’t really was kind of in a similar place to me when I started where I hadn’t really, I guess put a name to it and kind of thing and they sort of knew that I was wrong, but hadn’t really clicked on what it might be. So it’s, it’s interesting, like, I always hear the stats, especially around like the pandemic stuff, like, you know, just comments for now, probably not common sense, but like our ot training, we know that that kind of stuff is gonna have an impact. Right? But I think for a lot of people that kind of like Yep, I can’t know that’s having an impact on other people. And then that’s it they just sort of block it out and don’t think about it for themselves. I don’t think it’s kind of like the the old theory that you know, plumbers have leaky taps. Like I just think we’re just not very good at focusing and looking after ourselves. We’re very, we’re very good at, you know, putting our own crap aside to help other people or to do the job that we’re therefore we just need I think of ourselves. Yeah, I think that that becomes a struggle and You know, it’s like the old airline adage, you got to put your own mask on before you can help other people. And that’s the bit I don’t think we’re very good at yet. Erik Johnson 5:09Yeah, and I agree, like I, and it’s, you know, it’s interesting that you say that, like I had done for, you know, OT month last year, I think, April, I think I had, you know, my head had said, I’m going to do list 30 occupations, or my occupations around that define who I am. And I put some things that were very obvious, like better, and I was a veteran, you know, or I was, you know, worker, occupational therapist, you know, but the, the number one thing that got feedback was, I was a mental health care, actually, you know, I was a, you know, and I was very vulnerable, and that kind of, like, you know, like, I don’t like to say, I mean, everybody sees me, I’m the eternal optimist, I’m so happy, and I’ve got this fantastic life with this amazing, beautiful wife and amazing children. But, you know, the reality is, is like, I’m sitting here, in in a very deep, dark place that I can’t, that it’s hard to share, because of those things. And I was actually thinking earlier, you know, when we had decided to have this conversation is like, you know, like, why is it that more that we see more and more people? You know, and I don’t know, the statistics, but like, are more people depressed? Now? You know, and, and, of course, what drives that in a lot of, you know, I don’t think that it’s uncommon to think that social media drives a lot of that, you know, I should be more because, you know, this person, or like, even, you know, like, I’m thrilled about your photography, and I, we both share a common passion in photography. And I think that it’s very cathartic for me to go out and take pictures and, and, and it’s a, something that I just absolutely love. But even like, looking at yours is like, Man, look at Brock going out. And he’s like, taking all these beautiful, beautiful pictures of these beautiful places, why am I not going out as like, like he’s doing and I should be doing the same thing. And, you know, you get in your head, like, he’s living life better than I’m living life, and I shouldn’t be doing that more. You know, so. And actually, like, what’s interesting. And I’d actually love to hear like the rainbow T’s kind of take on this as well, is I feel that society puts so much expectation on us that we feel that we need to be this person for so many different people. And our true authentic person can’t really be okay with who we are. Hmm, that’s tough. Yeah, you know, you know, and and I have applied, you know, them for being so powerfully okay with who they are the rainbow to, like, just knowing that. In that place, they’ve accepted their own personal understanding of who they need to be, you know, and that’s who I want to be like, I want to be a person who is, is okay with deaf, depression, okay, with the flaws. I certainly have made 1000s and 1000s of mistakes and hurt people and rubbed people the wrong way. You know, and I’m trying to work in a personal space, that’s okay with making mistakes, and forgiving myself and being able to move on there. And that’s, that’s super hard for me, because I don’t want to be, I don’t want to make mistakes. I don’t want to, you know, say the wrong thing. Yeah, that’s hard. Brock Cook 9:04And I think in the many conversations I’ve had with Dev, that’s one thing that ate like heaps of other people that I’ve spoken to about dev admire about dev is the fact that they are or at least outwardly appear to be able to be super confident in exactly. You know, who they want to be. And, and I guess that that in a, I guess you call it like an inner confidence. Dev dev definitely sort of pushes that that image out and in conversations like I speak to Dev, almost every day. And I do believe like that. It’s not just a sort of an image that you get from from the social Two accounts, I genuinely believe that that’s who they are. But I do think you’re right in that for social media has had a massive impact on these had a massive impact on on everyone anyway, in that it is very much the highlight reel of people’s lives like like you’re talking, say, for example, like the photos you’re talking about. Yeah, there’s however many couple 100 photos on that, that account that I’ve taken like 12,000 photos. Right, right, like, literally just seeing the best of the best. And this, I can guarantee you there are miles more shit photos that I’ve taken, then the good ones that I’m actually going to show people. And that’s exactly that’s like a perfect sort of way to highlight the fact that Yeah, you’re seeing the the highlight reel of people’s lives. And it is natural, that that’s how we, I feel anyway, that’s how we traditionally have kind of measured ourselves. Because there’s no objective measuring stick on how to be a successful person, we measure ourselves by comparing to those around us. And unfortunately, or fortunately, with social media that around us in quotes has now gone worldwide. And we’re able to filter what’s actually put out there. So, Erik Johnson 11:16you know, I actually I love that metaphor, and that’s beautiful. Like I I do a lot of weddings and rice, I do a lot of weddings, I’ve probably done 15 Yeah, but still, that’s that’s a, that’s enough to know that I’ve have the similar like, where I certainly have taken probably three fourths of my pictures that I’ve taken are garbage. And, and I don’t want to use where you know, but everybody, I’ll take 1200 to 1500 pictures, and then give them about 400 Yeah, you know, and they’re beautiful, in the moment, joy and grace and in beauty. But the other three fourths are blurred, and the writings bad. The faces, the eyes are closed, and what a beautiful metaphor to our life. Right. Brock Cook 12:09But I know, I think that also, we can kind of expand on that, in that, as a photographer, that’s, that’s okay. Like, it’s almost that’s accepted, like, you’re not expected to nail every single shot. Like, you go out there, like I know, every time I go out, like, I’m gonna take three or 400 photos today, and I might get five or six good ones. And that’s kind of, like, I’m okay with that. I’ll probably be different it was film because that would cost me a fortune. But Erik Johnson 12:41which is, but again, you know, think about, again, comparing social media, like it exists now. And you know, 30 years ago, there’s nothing or 20 years ago, there’s nothing. And now we have this unlimited supply of pictures that we can take. Whereas in social media unlimited ability to share the greatness of our lives, if we wanted to, or, or the depths, I mean, people love to share their terrible lives sometimes, which is bizarre to me, but I, you know, I guess it’s their they want they need that Brock Cook 13:14feedback from but I think in both instances, often it’s about that dopamine hit. So you know, whether you’re, you’re sharing, you know, something amazing, or, you know, for a photo you’ve taken or whatever, or, you know, you’re putting up a whinge about, you know, you got cut off in traffic or whatever it is, either way, you’re putting it out there for the response in a lot in, I would say every case, but 99% of cases, I reckon, would be people putting it out there for the response, and it’s the same chemical reaction that we’re chasing, it’s the same, you know, feel good hormones that we’re chasing, either way. One is my interpretation of one would be that, you know, one is a healthier sort of option than the other. So, obviously both downfalls, but that they are essentially coping mechanisms to make us feel good. Both of them. Erik Johnson 14:10Let me ask you this. Yeah, so two things happen on social media, we post something to receive some kind of feedback. And then we also go on there to see what other people are doing. And it a little bit of a window into our lives, right? Yep. So what what does the other side do? So we’ve kind of identified that that dopamine hit from receiving feedback because you know, I think probably 99% of the people that go on social media look very quickly to Did somebody comment on my posts. How many likes Do I have on my post was a popular who’s doing what right now maybe the my top few people that I followed, maybe they made a post or something but you know, you very quickly go you’re notified And just see what’s going on how people reacted to you. So if let’s say, What if social media ended up being, you actually didn’t exist in that place? As far as what you share, the only thing that exists is that you can see other people’s stuff. Brock Cook 15:23Yep. So what did you get out of it? I think, yeah. Yeah, I think I know. Erik Johnson 15:28I mean, so do would that change the atmosphere of social media. But the problem is that this could never happen. Because if nobody could do their own thing, nobody would be able to post because they wouldn’t. Brock Cook 15:43But I think you can do a similar example to like, what they’ve tried to do on say, Instagram, where they’ve hidden the likes from the public? I don’t know. I don’t know if they’ve done it everywhere. They’ve definitely done it in Australia. So like, if I go on to say, your account, however many the number of people that have liked a post on your account, I can’t see that. And that’s Erik Johnson 16:04Yeah, I think I think they did that. I think Brock Cook 16:07I know, rolling it out gradually. And I probably is worldwide by now. But like if, say, for example, you flipped that so that I go into your account, and I can see how many people have liked it. But you can’t, that’d be a similar thing where we want interesting experiment, you’re not going to get that sort of hit, you’re not going to know how many people have liked it. How many people have seen it, that kind of thing. You might well actually, let’s go take comments out of it as well. So you’re not gonna have any feedback. But I can see what everybody else but everyone else does. Erik Johnson 16:38Oh, man, how crazy would that be? Brock Cook 16:40I think I do think there’s still something to be gained by the person that is liking and commenting, because it’s kind of one of the other things that a lot of people use social media for is social acceptance. And part of that, or in humans is biology has interpreted that as that kind of mob mentality thing. So if everyone likes this…
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