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Natalie has an amazing breadth of experience for such a young clinician. This ep we have a look at that experience and then funnel down into her interest and experience living and working with chronic pain. Check out her work here: https://www.instagram.com/p/CXDaAAFvZ1x/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link Also if you’re in the market for some gorgeously designed clinic posters for your workspace then check out <<<TheOccShop>>> Look after yourself, look after others, and always keep Occupied Brock@brockcookOTbrock.cook@me.com If you want even more valuable content join <<Occupied Plus+ on Patreon>> for bonus podcast episodes, resources, mentorship and much much more! Automatic Transcript Brock Cook 0:00G’day, and welcome to episode 140. I have the absolute pleasure today of bringing in the lovely Natalie Khan to talk about her interest in pain and occupational therapy, how that actually works, exploring her how that interest came about her experience with it, and making some correlations with the ideal sort of occupation based practice model, and what’s currently happening in pain because, from my perspective, it’s extremely, extremely fascinating. And I think we can all learn quite a bit from how it’s happening. So enjoy G’day, my name is Brock Cook, and welcome to occupied. In this podcast we’re aiming to put the occupation in occupational therapy, we explore the people, topics, theories and underpinnings that make this profession so incredible. If you’re new here, you can find all of our previous episodes and resources at occupied podcast.com. But for now, let’s roll the episode. Natalie Khan 1:08Well, it’s true. To be fair, I don’t know that I’ve met a lot of people who have just become OTS because they wanted to be in it. Funny enough. My mom’s actually an OT. Brock Cook 1:18Oh, really? Yeah, you probably the first thing Natalie Khan 1:21you know, but it wasn’t like that. I think you probably actually have met her because my mom studied overseas. And so her degree wasn’t recognized. And so she’s only recently gone through JCU to get that she was one of the students who to get that, I guess recognized. But growing up I love but like, I was interested in what my mom did, but I was also kind of like, just don’t want to do what my mom does. And so, I don’t know, it’s probably a combination of there was a moment of I think I’ll finish school and didn’t want to do any further studies. I just wanted a gap here. My parents forced me to go to uni. So stallion Yep. Out of rebellion. I studied science to prove a point that uni is not for me, because I’m really bad at something. Brock Cook 2:20Seems like a logical way to go. Yeah, look, Natalie Khan 2:22look, it was obviously not not that. But it made sense. At the time. I was like, I’m here. I’m, you know, doing science. I failed, you know, as expected, because I’m not well, at the time, I think probably become better at those sciences. But at the time, it wasn’t really important to me. I was just kind of there for the uni experience can relate. Then I had some subjects. I think it was some of the healthcare subjects I had with OTs and kind of liked it. And I thought no, actually, I like what these guys do. But I’m not I don’t want to be like my mom. But I could be an OT. But I don’t want to be like my mom. Brock Cook 3:08And then I’m entitled struggle. Yeah, Natalie Khan 3:11put into it and was like, Yeah, I love what he does. So here I am I at now. Brock Cook 3:19Yeah, just like your mom. Just like. Natalie Khan 3:24Yeah. That wasn’t what I expected it to be. But that’s alright. Have you regretted it? So that’s, Brock Cook 3:31that’s all anyone could ask, hopefully. So once you finished becoming your mother, where did you move into? Like, what was your practice area? What was your passion? Natalie Khan 3:44Yeah, um, I guess through uni, you know, going through JCU one of the big things that we learn about is rural health and group practice. And that was something that really aligned with my values and what I wanted to do I, I, you know, had the plans prior to COVID I don’t know if you remember, because we talked about this a long time ago when you just started occupied? Probably not. But I had plans of going overseas and doing like some refugee pipe work. Brock Cook 4:14I do recall that actually. Natalie Khan 4:16I obviously, it was all planned out pre COVID You know, so Brock Cook 4:22COVID changed a lot of plans. Yeah. Natalie Khan 4:25But anyway, so I ended up I’ve prior to that. So I got into real work basically is what I was trying to get to I really enjoyed real work and I thought that was a good transition to you know, doing something like refugee type of work. And I seemed logical at the time I really enjoyed rural work and I think you know, the things that we learned at uni, I probably have a bit of a complex feeling like everything is my responsibility and I’m there to fix the world. And so you know, Remember, lecturers would say things like, oh, you know, not enough health professionals go out there and they need health professionals. And I was like, wow, they need me. Brock Cook 5:09Like, wait, I’m a health professional, I can do this Natalie Khan 5:12exam. Yeah, I’m gonna be a health professional and I can go. So I went out there and I stayed out there for two years. I did my Allied Health row generalist training, actually through JCU. I was out there. I loved it had the best time. Really, I don’t think I would have left if it wasn’t for the fact that I realized how isolated we were when COVID started. Brock Cook 5:40So just just for those that probably aren’t so familiar with the rural world, what’s the what would be the main differences between say what you were doing in a rural setting and what someone might do in a more Metro setting? Natalie Khan 5:51Yeah, so really, every day was very different. I guess there’s a combination of inpatient and outpatient work. We do anything from you know, your general older person presentations in hospital, you’ve got your, you know, your ortho surgical rehab presentations. We did hand therapy outpatient pediatrics, outpatient, your general community outpatient, palliative caseload, which was quite a big part of my caseload Actually, I didn’t expect it to, but turned out being that way. So it was really just very different every day, you know, you do outreach to different towns, and you know, overnight trips and going out into communities saw some interesting things. But it was, yeah, it was good. I think I like that no day was like the previous day. But I think, you know, towards the end of the two years, I kind of felt that I was just plateauing a little bit in my learning, because you see so much, you know, you see so many different things that, uh, you know, really different to the things that you usually seen. So you’d never really, I guess, you become really good at kind of knowing how to solve the problem, but never really good at actually knowing what, how to do something Brock Cook 7:24become that jack of all trades, but you don’t really have the time and the exposure to become the master of any particular area. Natalie Khan 7:32No, no. So you know, like, some conditions, you know, like, I guess you could have maybe two, two amputations or three amputations in a year. And that’s, that’s a busy year of amputations, you know, and so, and then you’ve got your hand conditions that you might see, you know, and you probably see the same condition to two or three times a year. So it’s just really tricky trying to, I guess, be really good at anything. And so I decided that that was probably, it was time to move on Brock Cook 8:08time for a change. I think for many people, I probably wouldn’t have heard that term rural generalist, I feel like it’s a very Australian thing. It is what it says on the box is invalid, it’s when you’re working in a rural area, and you become generally good at a whole range of different things so that you can meet the needs of a wider population without having essentially multiple, like in a metro, you’d have a therapist for hands, and you’d have a therapist in Powell care. And you’d have a different therapist, like you’d have a whole handful of therapists for the different areas, whereas in a rural area, I can’t remember what the population definition of rural I think it’s like under 20,000 In a town or something like that. Natalie Khan 8:46Oh, yeah, I think it’s something like that. We were definitely well below I think we had 1000 People in this some of the areas I was seven, I think 1800 people, so Brock Cook 8:58yeah, so generally, service, whatever it needs came up in the population, as opposed to being especially like a specialist, kind of having a specialist knowledge base in one particular area. Yeah, yeah. And what’s sort of the other sort of relatively unique thing with rural general stuff is just the area that you cover as well. Like, do you have any idea like how many like, what sort of how many kilometers How will the like, how are big an area you are? Natalie Khan 9:29I don’t probably don’t know the exact area. But oh, I mean, I could probably you could probably drive about two hours into most directions, I guess. And that was the area. I don’t know if that makes sense. But kind of the area that we covered and then that it was you know, someone else’s Dix district would start and that’s the area and you know, you I think you become really good at, you know, as a real general unless you become really good at just collaborating with those specialists, clinicians, so you know, you’ve got those major people at the metropolitan areas and call them you say, Hey, I’ve got another pediatric patient here. This is what’s going on. And I think to them a lot of times, it’s pretty straightforward stuff. And they’re like, oh, yeah, we see 100 of these a day, but it was a bit different. Brock Cook 10:26For us. Yeah. In those areas to you also in that was like rural generals and other professions as well as you. Yeah, Natalie Khan 10:33yeah. Sorry, everyone. Well, all of the Allied Health, actually even medical nursing, everyone’s everyone’s a real generalist. So it’s kind of the Brock Cook 10:45big family. Natalie Khan 10:47It is it is, but it was really nice. It was, it was great. I had the best time, you know, you get to know everyone really well, you get to work with all the team members really closely. And everyone knows exactly what everyone’s roles are. And so it’s makes it makes a really nice place to work. Brock Cook 11:06Yeah. And you mentioned earlier that you originally were planning to go and do refugee work. Where did that interest come from? Natalie Khan 11:13Oh, I think again, it’s probably, like goes back to me thinking that I can save the world. On my own. I, when I’ve honestly wanted to do that, I think since I was about seven years old. At the time, I thought I was going to be a doctor. And you know, that makes sense. That’s how you, you know, save people. I don’t know, I think it’s probably a combination of I think my heritage and my background and that my growing up in Brazil. For times, you know, mom used to take us, you know, just little things used to take us to the favelas, and we have to give all of our all of our toys away that we didn’t, you know, so that we didn’t use so just I guess, even though it’s probably in the grand scheme of things, a little thing, but I think it just started to instill some of those things. And that, you know, there’s other people out there who are less fortunate than us who need support. And, you know, my dad, he’s of Iraqi Kurdish descent. So he, he was a refugee himself. So I think, you know, probably all of those things just kind of came together and the need to help people out there. And, you know, I guess helping your people, you know, I guess, have your same background. And that doesn’t have to be, but I think it’s just Brock Cook 12:44it’s crazy, the thing you end up being sort of drawn to, I guess, yeah, Natalie Khan 12:47I think it’s just it’s to created a bit of a passion for me and working with minority groups, probably, you know, which is one of the reasons why also like rural health, and you know, like indigenous Aboriginal health, it just kind of all fits under that same bubble of people who are disadvantage, for most of the time reasons that are out of their control. And, again, me thinking that I can save the world. Brock Cook 13:17But I feel like that’s, that’s, like fairly common, not necessarily save the world, but like wanting to help people is, is a pretty common value held by people. Like I think that’s just one of those things that you’d be hard pressed to find someone that isn’t attracted to the profession that doesn’t have that value in some way or form. Like it’s just one of those things that’s very much associated with not even just OT, but like a lot of health related professions. It attracts people that want to help other people. Natalie Khan 13:47Yeah, yeah. I think probably, sometimes I think I’ve gotten better at it. It’s there’s been times where I think it was unhealthy. The levels of Brock Cook 13:57Well, the first part is admitting you’ve got a problem. Oh, yeah. Natalie Khan 14:01Yeah, yeah. Yeah. No, I think it’s a lot healthier. Now. I realize I can’t save everyone. But you know, it’s led me to where I am now. I think I just probably been a higher achiever for a while, not necessarily always academically, but you know, just from a I don’t know. Yeah, providing value to people’s lives is Brock Cook 14:27enough. I’ve still stand by the fact that I still think some of the best OTS aren’t necessarily the ones that are best in the books. Natalie Khan 14:34Yeah, Brock Cook 14:35I wouldn’t agree. i Well, I’m not saying that I was a good OT or emigrant it but I definitely was not good at the books. Yeah. I was much more practical person still am, but didn’t really even find my feet until I started placement and was actually doing things because that’s where I learned the most and that’s where I sort of went oh, wait, everything just clicked on one. I understand how some of this stuff works now, I can actually put it into practice. Natalie Khan 15:05I think it was pretty similar. I feel like after placement marks just like, yeah, I rocketed and I was like, Oh, wow, this is, you know, it’s all falling into place. And it makes sense. Brock Cook 15:16I did have, I did not enough have ever told the story on here. But I did have a ran into one of my old lectures, she’s not there anymore. So no one can look her up, did have one of my old lectures that I ran into at a conference once. It was the very end of the conference, everyone was having a few like adult beverages. And I remember talking to her, and I asked her I’m like, you know, what was your perception of me as a student? Because I didn’t, I knew I wasn’t a very good student. And she was just blunt. She was like, up until you went to placement. We didn’t even really know why you were there. And then you came back like this completely different person. And everyone was like, Oh, my God, what happened to me? And I just absolutely cracked up. And I’m like, well let the least I was on the right track. And I was aware enough to realize that was what was going on as well. Yeah, yeah. But it’s Natalie Khan 16:07funny. I think even when I was a student, I remember seeing a lot of people coming back from placement and just kind of going, Oh, well, yeah, really a different person to what I remember. Brock Cook 16:18It’s amazing how much people grow later on. In our course, it’s pretty much 12 months where the placement and like the difference that people can change, although the amount that people can change in that 12 month period is massive. Now obviously, for other courses, it’s it’s laid out differently. But I mean, everyone does the essential, essentially the same amount of placement. And I’m assuming everyone goes…
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