More or Less - Dave Morin, Jessica Lessin, Brit Morin, and Sam Lessin

Latest Episodes:

Silicon Valley IPO Summer 2026: SpaceX, Anthropic, OpenAI Explained Jun 05, 2026

Show notes

Brit subs in for Jess as Sam and Dave unpack the AI IPO boom, including SpaceX, Anthropic, and Cerebras, debate whether AI agents can actually replace employees, and react live to the discovery that Slow’s @slow Instagram account was stolen through a Meta AI support exploit. The conversation spans OpenClaw’s enterprise push, recent AI funding rounds, the AI wrapper debate, and Sam’s latest investing thesis that startup pitches should look more like movie trailers than decks, before ending with a pop culture corner into Taylor Swift, AI-generated podcasts for kids, and the future of TBPN after the OpenAI deal.

Chapters:

02:53 AI IPO Season: SpaceX, Anthropic & Cerebras

05:29 Narrative Capitalism: Storing Value in Stories

11:34 What the AI IPO Wave Means for Silicon Valley

15:02 Microsoft Build: OpenClaw Goes Enterprise

17:38 Would You Trade Your Employee for an AI Agent?

25:19 LIVE: Slow Ventures’ Instagram Gets Hacked via Meta AI

30:04 Are AI Harnesses Just Fancy PDFs?

31:49 Recent AI Raises & the SaaS Comeback

33:01 The New Pitch: Movie Trailers Over Decks

41:17 AI-Generated Podcasts, Voice Cloning & Consumer AI

42:54 TBPN Update: Post-OpenAI Deal

We’re also on ↓

X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod

Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless

YouTube: https://youtu.be/oYmxx8ElGHk

Connect with us here:

1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin

2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin

3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin

4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

Did Anthropic Use the Pope as a Marketing Stunt? Ft. Amir Efrati May 29, 2026

Show notes

This week on More or Less, Amir Efrati of The Information joins Jessica, Brit, and Dave to unpack the growing intersection of AI, government, and national security, from the rumored stalled executive AI order to why frontier model companies may soon face deeper U.S. oversight and pre-release access demands. The group debates whether slowing AI adoption is really a pricing and UX problem, why AI agents are causing token consumption to explode, and whether most consumers even want an always-on personal agent. They also dive into the geopolitical implications of data centers and open-source software, AI’s impact on entertainment and voice cloning, Hollywood’s anxiety over originality, and the strange new world where even papal writings prompt questions about whether AI had a hand in shaping the message.

Chapters:

1:57 — AI Predictions, Whispering to Models & Forecasting the Future

4:37 — AI, National Security & the Trump Administration

6:52 — The Pope’s AI Document, Closed Models & Security Risks

11:56 — AI Regulation, Job Fears & Public Sentiment

15:45 — Is AI Adoption Slowing Down? Pricing, ROI & Enterprise Reality

21:00 — Agents, CIOs & Whether Mainstream Users Will Ever Embrace AI

36:00 — AI Entertainment, Voice Cloning & Hollywood’s Future

41:52 — Going Off-Grid, Book Recommendations & Digital Detoxes

47:00 — Mark Rober, CrunchLabs & the $10,000 Bullseye Story

We’re also on ↓

X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod

Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless

YouTube: https://youtu.be/OyC7N42o36s

Connect with us here:

1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin

2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin

3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin

4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

SpaceX IPO Date Talk + OpenAI Confidential Filing Rumors May 22, 2026

Show notes

This week on More or Less, the crew unpacks IPO speculation around OpenAI and SpaceX, debates whether AI’s economics ultimately favor recurring API spend or owning infrastructure outright, questions if Google’s distribution advantage is enough to win the AI race despite muddled product execution, and wrestles with whether today’s AI valuations are driven by real fundamentals or pure mimetic momentum, alongside broader debates on broken AI user experience, data center concentration risk, agentic search killing SEO, and whether skilled trades like plumbing may ultimately prove more durable than many white-collar jobs in the AI era.

Chapters:

01:35 — Brit’s fish disaster story + the fish microbiome economy

04:50 — Dell World, AI PCs, and the tokenomics debate (API spend vs. owning infrastructure)

11:00 — Google I/O recap: agentic search, generative UI, Android glasses, and whether Google is actually back

16:30 — Google’s UX problem: why AI still feels broken for normal users

20:00 — Anthropic vs. Google: focused monolith vs. sprawling empire

22:10 — OpenAI IPO speculation + Anthropic’s mega-round: what do you have to believe at $1T valuations?

29:30 — The “hate invest” thesis: public sentiment, retail risk, and crypto déjà vu

34:20 — Portfolio debate: SpaceX vs. Anthropic vs. OpenAI

35:00 — Sam builds an AI token pricing dashboard live + how companies actually burn $30K/month on tokens

37:00 — What’s next in AI research? Memory, world models, and where infra plays went

42:30 — White House AI model oversight rumors + OpenAI’s Elon legal update

50:10 — AI side projects, kids learning to code, and why plumbers may win the AI era

We’re also on ↓

X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod

Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless

Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspod

Connect with us here:

1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin

2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin

3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin

4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

Google's AI-First Laptop, Meta's Spy Games, AI Monks in Middle America May 15, 2026

Show notes

The squad is complete again, and Sam arrives with a NeuroPod, cold plunge updates, red light therapy, Oura stats, and enough supplements to start a wellness startup. Then into the week’s biggest tech stories: Google’s new AI device and whether it’s the Chromebook of the AI era or another doomed health-tech experiment, Meta’s keystroke logging controversy, Microsoft’s increasingly awkward OpenAI bet, why OpenAI and Anthropic are now sending engineers directly into enterprises to drive adoption, and what tools like OpenClaw, Py, and Codex actually do. Plus, Anthropic’s eye-watering latest valuation, the clean girl aesthetic discourse, Brian Johnson chaos, and Sam personally buying Jackson Hole ski passes like it’s 1997

Chapters:

00:46 Sam’s NeuroPod, Oura Results & Biohacking Spiral

03:33 Sam vs. Brian Johnson + The Female Biohacker Opportunity

05:09 Oura Ring vs. Whoop + Google’s Wearables Ambition

07:00 Google’s AI-First “Book” Laptop + DeepMind’s Health Push

10:30 Why Local AI Changes Everything (Speed, Cost & Compute)

15:00 Where Is the OpenAI Consumer Device?

16:00 Voice AI, Recording & the Future of Human-Computer Input

20:30 Sam Built His Own Voice-to-AI App

22:31 Meta’s Keystroke Logging: Spy Games or Honeypot?

24:00 Fake AI Jobs + Sam’s “Fin Analytics” Prediction

27:02 OpenAI & Anthropic’s Enterprise Conversion Strategy

29:31 The AI Backlash Is Real (Including UCF’s Commencement Revolt)

31:30 Microsoft’s $100B OpenAI Problem

39:31 Anthropic’s Massive Raise + SF Real Estate Absurdity

41:30 OpenClaw, Py & Codex: What Is a Harness?

We’re also on ↓

X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod

Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless

Youtube: https://youtu.be/-O3zyxR-wS0

Connect with us here:

1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin

2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin

3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin

4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

Why the Met Gala Hates Tech, Elon vs OpenAI Drama, and the Rise of Chinese AI Models May 08, 2026

Show notes

Jess, Britt, and Dave unpack everything from Home Depot runs and closet “re-jiggers” to the internet’s growing backlash against tech wealth, AI, and Silicon Valley culture. The squad debates whether the Met Gala became a symbol of “techlash,” how layoffs and AI anxiety are reshaping public sentiment, and whether AI will actually democratize opportunity or simply concentrate power faster. They also dive into the wild new AI alliances between Anthropic, Elon, and hyperscalers, the latest OpenAI vs Elon trial drama, and why product adoption, not regulation, will decide the future of AI. Plus, Dave shares major OpenClaw updates, real-world AI workflow automations, Meta fork rumors, and the surprisingly relatable use case of turning meeting transcripts into family “receipt printer” briefings. Rounded out with solo movie dates, Taylor Swift theories, Star Wars discourse, and the state of flake culture.

Chapters:

00:58 Jess' Home Renovation Project While Sam is Out

03:54 Met Gala: When the Bezoses Became the Story

07:13 Techlash, Wealthlash, and the AI Jobs Backlash

09:36 Trump’s Surprise Pivot Toward AI Regulation

11:51 China, Open-Source Models, and Dave’s $5K Blackwell Desktop

14:13 The Optimistic Case: AI as the Great Wealth Equalizer

17:55 The Pessimistic Case: Tools Democratize, Economics Consolidate

19:43 What Changes Public Sentiment: Better Products, Not Better Arguments

22:42 Layoffs: Pandemic Hangover or AI Substitution?

27:56 Why Almost No One Is Actually Using AI Yet

33:15 Anthropic’s Compute Scramble and the SpaceX/Colossus Deal

36:27 Dario vs. Elon: Two Very Different Operators

39:55 The OpenAI vs. Musk Trial: TMZ or Substance?

45:33 Polymarket, Twitter-Mention Betting, and ChatGPT Comeback

46:42 OpenClaw Update: Foundation, Plugin Architecture, China Forks

50:08 Granola + Claude Code: Replacing Salesforce in 30 Minutes

53:36 Devil Wears Prada, Solo Movie Dates, and the Death of Journalism

55:01 Music & Pop Culture: Ella Langley, Teddy Swims, Toy Story 5

56:36 Why Star Wars Keeps Missing

We’re also on ↓

X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod

Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless

YouTube: https://youtu.be/138ne91NkiQ

Connect with us here:

1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin

2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin

3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin

4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

Elon Musk vs OpenAI Trial, Google Cloud Surge, Meta’s Blocked Acquisition, Anthropic Winning May 01, 2026

Show notes

This week on More or Less, the crew kicks off with a very on-brand derail—Stagecoach turning into a wind-blown 90s reunion-turned-half-capacity vibe, segueing into a chaotic trend report of “booty shorts vs. jorts” before Jessica reframes it as “OpenAI or jorts.” From there, it’s into the real storylines: the Musk v. OpenAI trial in Oakland (Altman and Brockman showing up, Musk posturing, and the judge shutting down theatrics), and whether it’s substance or just WWE for tech. The AI race heats up with reports of ChatGPT missing targets while Anthropic pulls ahead, sparking a broader debate on whether frontier models are sliding into commodity territory—Sam argues narrative over fundamentals while Dave pushes on open-source pressure and who actually foots the data center bill. The conversation expands into geopolitics (regulatory capture, China’s open-source momentum, Meta’s blocked agent play) and earnings (Google Cloud riding Anthropic demand), landing on a sneaky insight: AI’s real cost explosion might be storage, not tokens. They close with a rapid-fire culture sweep—Maria Sharapova’s podcast, NYT rankings, Elon’s Mars comp fantasy, Met Gala backlash, and the final punchline: YouTube growth is way more gameable than anyone wants to admit.

Chapters:

00:34 — Stagecoach Chaos: Tornado Winds & Half-Crowd Vibes

01:43 — Summer Trend Report: Booty Shorts vs. Jorts

02:56 — “OpenAI or Jorts?” The Hard Pivot

04:15 — Musk vs OpenAI Trial Begins (And It’s Already Messy)

06:40 — Gag Orders, Jury Drama & Musk’s Opening Stunt

09:03 — Is This Lawsuit Just WWE for Tech?

11:46 — Anthropic Passes OpenAI?! The AI Power Shift

13:57 — AI Is Becoming a Commodity (Sam’s Take)

15:24 — The Real Cost of AI: Tokens vs Labor

18:53 — Open Source Is Eating Everything

21:08 — Outcome-Based Pricing: Fix or Race to Zero?

23:16 — “This Is a Bad Business” (But Everyone Uses It)

26:04 — The Only AI Moat: Regulation or Narrative

29:02 — Why Frontier Models Still Matter

32:04 — China, Open Source & AI Geopolitics

35:06 — Meta’s Blocked AI Deal (Spy Game Energy)

38:07 — Google Wins the AI Race (For Now)

41:23 — The $5B Opportunity Nobody’s Talking About

43:34 — The Real AI Trade: Storage > Tokens

46:58 — Investing Is Dead, Long Live Narrative

We’re also on ↓

X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod

Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless

YouTube: https://youtu.be/EkpYTFmS4Ak

Connect with us here:

1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin

2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin

3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin

4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

What Tim Cook’s “Executive Chairman” Move Really Means | Musk vs OpenAI, xAI and Cursor Rumors Apr 24, 2026

Show notes

The full quad is back and we're getting right into the tech drama: AI backlash (from Reese Witherspoon to everyday skepticism), breakthrough science like CRISPR entering its “it actually works” era, and major power shifts across tech — from Apple succession chatter to Jensen Huang’s leadership moments and the brewing battle between OpenAI and Elon Musk. They squad digs into SpaceX IPO dynamics, the rise of “traces” data as the next AI battleground, and what happens when AI gives more people the power to build.

Chapters:

0:17 — Welcome Back: Full Quad Edition

1:07 — Creatine, AI Stuffies, and the Opening Chaos

4:37 — Breakthrough Prize & CRISPR Finally Working

5:47 — One-of-One Gene Therapy Becomes Real

7:07 — The AI Backlash Is Real8:47 — UBI vs. Meaning: The Real Debate

10:57 — Jensen’s “I Didn’t Wake Up a Loser Today” Moment

12:47 — Apple Succession: Tim Cook → John Ternus

16:17 — Asset Prices vs. Reality21:17 — Elon vs. OpenAI: The Trial

27:07 — SpaceX IPO: Biggest in History?

29:27 — xAI, Cursor, and the $60B Bet

36:07 — Traces Data: The Next AI Battleground

40:07 — Workplace Surveillance & Employee Data

48:27 — Who Gets to Build? (6B Users vs. 50M Builders)

51:07 — AI: Equalizer or Concentrator?

We’re also on ↓

X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod

Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless

YouTube: https://youtu.be/bjePLXg64n0

Connect with us here:

1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin

2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin

3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin

4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

Allbirds Pivoted to AI Data Centers | SpaceX $1.5T IPO, Anthropic $800B, $175M Seed Rounds Apr 17, 2026

Show notes

SpaceX might be the biggest IPO ever but there’s a math problem no one’s pricing in. Once you factor in capital gains, you need to believe it’ll underperform the market by ~50% just to justify selling. That creates an invisible floor under mega-cap stocks and a market increasingly detached from reality. Meanwhile: Allbirds goes from $4B to $40M and pivots to “NewBird AI.” Seed valuations hit $175M — 3x YoY, above 2021 peak. And AI labs are allegedly planting stories on each other. This week on More or Less: SpaceX’s $19B revenue / $5B losses, the AI bubble, Anthropic $800B rumors, and why fund math is breaking.

Chapters:

0:00 — Waymo vs. Uber: the autonomous tipping point

8:29 — Allbirds: $4B → $40M → “NewBird AI”

12:56 — Boom Supersonic and the data center pivot

15:17 — SpaceX IPO: bulls vs. bears

16:14 — The tax problem no one is pricing in

20:16 — Can mega-cap still 50x?

26:47 — SpaceX breakdown: Starlink vs. launch

28:20 — Anthropic $800B rumors

30:08 — OpenAI vs. Anthropic: leaks and competition

31:08 — The model switching problem (no real moat)

33:36 — AI behavior shift: “ask the agent”

38:17 — AI labs running oppo research

40:05 — Seed valuations surpass 2021 peak

42:00 — Fund math is broken

We’re also on ↓

X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod

Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless

YouTube: https://youtu.be/FQ5TEs_3Dq8

Connect with us here:

1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin

2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin

3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin

4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

Vercel CEO: 70% of Our Traffic Is Now AI Agents "Nobody Was Prepared" | Anthropic, OpenClaw, OpenAI Apr 10, 2026

Show notes

Vercel CEO Guillermo Rauch breaks down the explosive rise of AI agents and what it means for the future of software infrastructure. He joins the Morins to unpack why Anthropic cut off OpenClaw users, why the SaaS subscription model is breaking down, how agents are reshaping cloud infrastructure, and why a new wave of “supergeniuses” (from neurosurgeons to 17-year-olds) are building things no one thought possible. Plus: dreams.md, the future of personal agents, and why agents are becoming the new computer.

Chapters:

00:42 Intro: Guillermo Rauch, CEO and Founder of Vercel

01:48 Vercel Explodes 5X Growth and AI Traffic Surge

03:51 Why Anthropic Shut Down OpenClaw Users

04:47 Coding Agents Are the Path to AGI

07:57 70 Percent of Vercel Traffic Is Now AI

09:50 SaaS Is Dead Pay Per Token Takes Over

13:16 Anthropic vs OpenClaw Closed vs Open Agents

14:47 The Hidden Risk of AI Data and Training

16:38 Why Everyone Wants Their Own AI

18:08 The Shift to Agent Native Infrastructure

19:45 Vibe Coded Apps Are Going Viral

21:42 The AI Wars Anthropic OpenAI Elon

23:15 Dreams md Self Improving AI Agents

25:44 Memory Theory of Mind and Agent Intelligence

28:05 Your AI Should Travel With You

30:00 Enterprise AI and Domain Expert Agents

31:15 How Vercel Became an AI Native Company

33:06 Hiring in the Age of AI Agents

36:03 The Rise of Supergeniuses

38:10 Inside Slows Creator AI Hackathon

40:06 AI Agents Are the New Customers

41:18 Moving Up the Stack Again

42:05 What Happens in the Next 12 Months

43:48 AI Will Break Cloud and Security

We’re also on ↓

X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod

Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless

YouTube: https://youtu.be/f43JCxhKLEg

Connect with us here:

1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin

2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin

3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin

4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

AI Agents Destroying Internet Security (Anthropic's Leak, ClawCon Tokyo, OpenAI's $852B Valuation) Apr 03, 2026

Show notes

Sam Lessin accidentally emailed 40 of Silicon Valley's most important people using an AI bot — and that one mishap reveals everything broken about the AI security model right now. In this episode, Sam and Dave Morin (calling in from ClawCon Tokyo) argue that AI agents are quietly dismantling every security assumption the internet was built on: from open-source package trust chains to content moderation walls to the entire premise of software moats. Meanwhile, Jessica Lessin shares her own Claude Code disaster that proves even careful people are one 'approve' click away from chaos. The team also tears apart OpenAI's $852 billion valuation, debate whether 10 million software developers are about to become irrelevant, and explain why a professional skier in Alaska just built the app she'd been pitching for two years — in a single afternoon.

We’re also on ↓

X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod

Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless

YouTube: https://youtu.be/Gv-VUTGVNT8

Connect with us here:

1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin

2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin

3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin

4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit