More or Less - Dave Morin, Jessica Lessin, Brit Morin, and Sam Lessin

Latest Episodes:

#13 : Why There Will Never Be Another 200 Million Subscriber App Sep 08, 2023

Show notes

…but something else will bloom instead. Plus, this is why Europe can't have nice things. And the Cable Cowboy kills cable.

Discussed:

The Hottest Coach in Sports: Coach Prime
How Deel Became Payout Provider for Prop Trading Firms, Including Site Frozen by CFTC

John Malone’s Charter Squeezes Disney at Vulnerable Moment

Cable Cowboy: John Malone and the Rise of the Modern Cable

The Outsiders: Eight Unconventional CEOs and Their Radically Rational Blueprint for Success

How Taylor Swift Ditched Dealing With Hollywood Studios to Release the ‘Eras Tour’ Film With AMC

Show Notes:

[00:01:59] CU Buffs winning football game.

[00:06:30] Prop trading as Ponzi scheme.

[00:08:30] A hidden Forex trading industry.

[00:10:38] Robo spam being cracked down.

[00:14:08] Subscription business models.

[00:18:31] Europe's impact on app monetization.

[00:22:18] The digital market act.

[00:24:12] Implications for big tech gatekeepers.

[00:29:31] The future of niche apps.

[00:30:01] Subscription services reaching scale.

[00:33:11] How do you make money?

[00:36:28] Rethinking success for consumer businesses.

[00:39:52] Cable subscriptions and user experience.

[00:43:23] The fascination with fax machines.

[00:45:22] Old and new combined.

[00:47:57] Taylor Swift's movie theater success.

[00:50:46] More in-person collective experience.

#12: A VC Therapy Session Sep 01, 2023

Show notes

The Morins and the Lessins break down what is really happening in venture firms right now from liquidating venture stakes to fundraising. Plus, Chinese entrepreneurs’ secret AI confab and Jessica’s notes from Beijing.

Discussed:

Colin Robinson: The Life of an Energy Vampire - What We Do In The Shadows
Chamath Palihapitiya’s Venture Firm Offered to Sell Hundreds of Startup Stakes
Chip War: The Fight for the World's Most Critical Technology

Show Notes:

[00:02:30] Energy vampires.

[00:04:33] Otter.ai technology for efficient reporting.

[00:09:00] Recording everything and privacy.

[00:12:41] Is being a venture capitalist in Silicon Valley like being a tenured professor at a University?

[00:15:44] Venture capital feedback cycles and accountability.

[00:18:40] Choosing Jedi or General.

[00:23:01] Fundamental beliefs and investments.

[00:25:11] Zero Fund concept.

[00:29:07] VC leading indicators.

[00:31:27] LPs buying stakes in GPs.

[00:34:51] Mid-flight venture capital strategy changes.

[00:39:02] The future of AI in China.

[00:43:11] Centralized AI ownership in China.

[00:47:38] US entrepreneurs selling beauty products.

[00:50:09] Feedback and podcast rankings.

#11: Why hybrid work doesn’t work, long live the phone call Aug 25, 2023

Show notes

Back in the Bay Area, the Morins and the Lessins debate the status of startup work culture and how to fix it. Plus, Nvidia’s blowout earnings and the best More or Less product idea yet.

Articles and data discussed:

Salesforce Leads Financing of AI Startup at More Than $4 Billion Valuation

Can San Francisco Save Itself From the Doom Loop?

Show Notes:

[0:00:00] Remote work policies and productivity [0:13:23] Data on decreased mobile phone usage in cities since COVID [0:20:11] The current state of San Francisco and the Bay Area [0:31:36] Hybrid work challenges and the move back to the office [0:35:00] Productivity tools and scheduling meetings effectively [0:39:44] Improving communication technologies for remote and hybrid work [0:46:43] NVIDIA earnings and valuations in tech [0:50:00] New potential features for the podcast including a "Third Wheel" segment

#10: You should kill your startup, What replaces globalization Aug 18, 2023

Show notes

As the startup graveyard gets crowded, the Morins and the Lessins talk about when companies should quit and reminisce about failed investments. Plus, a More or Less debate on U.S. China tech policy and evolving views of LLMs.

Articles and books discussed:
https://www.theinformation.com/articles/storage-startup-clutter-running-out-of-cash-sells-itself-at-steep-discount?rc=hwneun
https://www.theinformation.com/articles/yieldstreet-nears-a-deal-to-buy-real-estate-tech-startup-cadre?rc=hwneun
https://www.theinformation.com/articles/venture-capital-firms-struggle-to-raise-funds-in-china?rc=hwneun
https://www.amazon.com/Quit-Power-Knowing-When-Walk/dp/B09PVR6YK5/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=quit+annie+duke&qid=1692292549&sr=8-1

Show Notes:

[0:00:00] Introduction - The hosts discuss their health status.

[0:00:23] Venture Capital, Startup Trends, and Choosing When to Quit - The group discusses past startup trends like the "Uber for X" era and how changing market conditions are coming home to roost.

[0:09:09] China and the Digital Trade Imbalance - The group discusses recent executive orders restricting US investment in Chinese companies and ask questions around why we only discuss the trade of atoms and not bits in the digital era.

[0:19:23] TikTok Ban Debate - The hosts debate whether the TikTok app should be banned in the US.

[0:35:00] Vision of American Digital Citizenship - Dave and Sam discuss their vision for expanding American digital identity globally.

[0:44:39] Supply Chain Impacts of COVID - Dave notes the pandemic highlighted supply chain vulnerabilities which influenced how everyone thinks about entrepreneurial risk.

[0:47:09] Large Language Model Perspectives - The hosts share their evolving views of AI, LLMs and regulatory risks.

#9: How to save ESPN. Barstool’s Bad (Good?) Example Aug 11, 2023

Show notes

The Morins and the Lessins devise a playbook on the future of sports media. Plus, a More or Less debate on a new study on Wegovy.

Articles and research discussed:

https://www.novonordisk.com/content/nncorp/global/en/news-and-media/news-and-ir-materials/news-details.html?id=166301

Show Notes:

0:00 - Introduction: The hosts discuss ESPN's declining subscriber numbers and revenue challenges. They debate whether equity ownership for athletes could help and what innovations ESPN could make.

2:18 - ESPN's issues: The hosts discuss ESPN's high content costs, difficulty being a distributor in a direct-to-consumer world, and how sports rights are priced to perfection.

9:12 - Barstool Sports: The hosts discuss Barstool Sports' acquisition and subsequent return to its founder due to his controversial behavior. They debate whether "crazy" founders luck into windfalls.

16:00 - Solutions for ESPN: The hosts discuss innovations like new formats, storytelling, and interactive experiences. They debate whether betting is the best form of interactivity.

25:00 - Longevity science: The hosts discuss a new study showing a weight loss drug can reduce heart attack risk by 20%. They debate the risks of healthy people taking such drugs.

34:00 - Wrap up: The hosts summarize the major problems discussed and look forward to recording together in person next time.

#8: Where's the Barbie business pop? Why brands beat marketplaces Aug 04, 2023

Show notes

This week, inspired by Barbie and Taylor Swift, the Morins and the Lessins debate the future of franchises and brands. Plus, the latest in the ecommerce wars and the winners and losers if room-temperature superconductors actually become a thing.

Articles and research discussed:

https://arxiv.org/abs/2307.12008
https://www.theinformation.com/articles/shein-makes-an-aggressive-pitch-to-woo-u-s-amazon-sellers
https://www.theinformation.com/articles/inside-tiktok-ceos-plan-to-play-offense

Show Notes:

0:00 Taylor Swift concert and Barbie movie - The hosts discuss the cultural impact of the recent Taylor Swift concert and the Barbie movie.

0:13 Fast fashion brand Shein - The hosts discuss the rise of Chinese fast fashion brand Shein and its impact on Amazon.

0:27 Live shopping - The hosts discuss the trend of live shopping on social media platforms and whether it will take off.

0:38 Superconductors - The hosts discuss recent breakthroughs in room temperature superconductors and the potential impact.

Brought To You By:

⁠⁠⁠The Information⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠Slow Ventures⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠Offline Ventures⁠⁠

#7: Elon's X game and RIP seed investing Jul 28, 2023

Show notes

Are we just playing into Elon's game with Twitter? The Lessins and The Morins debate and take different sides on whether seed investing can survive. Plus, what's Ruth Porat really up to at Google?

Discussed:

Google’s Darkest Days: After Three Deaths, a Workforce Reckons with a Changed Company
The Power Law: Venture Capital and the Making of the New Future

Seed Investing Can't Turn Back On

Show Notes:

00:00 - The hosts discuss Elon Musk rebranding Twitter as 'X'. They argue that Elon is doing it mainly to stay in the news cycle and get attention. They joke about how Elon is just like any other internet user, changing DNS records and making mistakes.

06:29 - The hosts discuss Google. They talk about Google's AI strategy, the promotion of Ruth Porat to President, and mental health issues at Google. They debate whether Google has lost its way or is still well positioned.

13:44 - Sam explains his view that 'seed investing is dead'. He argues that the venture capital model has broken down and companies are overvalued and unable to make a profit. Dave and Sam discuss how they prefer investing in 'weird' areas.

20:18 - The hosts debate whether venture capital will fundamentally change or just become a less good business. They agree that while seed investing will still exist, the previous model is over.

#6: Hollywood and AI; What IS Threads? Jul 21, 2023

Show notes

The Morins and Lessins debate the fizzling hype around AI and the Hollywood strike. Plus, Threads’ next move.

Discussed:

https://www.theinformation.com/articles/deal-activity-on-the-rise-as-bankers-say-merger-conversations-are-picking-up

https://www.ted.com/talks/tom_graham_the_incredible_creativity_of_deepfakes_and_the_worrying_future_of_ai

https://arxiv.org/abs/2307.09009

https://dudeperfect.com/tour

Show Notes:

0:00 Threads had a strong launch but questions remain around engaging content and audience building.

5:00 There is debate about the impact of AI on content, with concerns about AI-generated content and tools. The actors' and writers' strike highlights issues around voice, likeness, and copyright.

15:00 There are differing views on the capabilities and impact of large language models and AI technologies. Some argue the hype has outpaced reality while others see potential if issues around data and synthetic content can be solved.

30:00 The actors' and writers' strike is seen as justified by some to push for changes to copyright law to account for AI, voice, and likeness rights. Others want a quick resolution to minimize disruption.

35:00 Live experiences are seen as becoming more important compared to AI and digital content, as illustrated by the popularity of the Dude Perfect live show.

Brought To You By:

⁠The Information⁠

⁠Slow Ventures⁠

⁠Offline Ventures⁠

#5: Twitter Won't Die! Long Live Threads! Jul 07, 2023

Show notes

The Morins and Lessins debate what the Threads launch means for this era of social media. And, body hacking with Brit.

Discussed:

https://www.theinformation.com/articles/openai-plans-chatgpt-personal-assistant-for-work-setting-up-microsoft-rivalry?rc=hwneun

https://www.theinformation.com/forum/posts/524?rc=hwneun

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/01/science/consciousness-theories.html

Show Notes:

00:00 Twitter vs. Threads - Meta's new Twitter competitor called Threads, built on Instagram. Debate if it can "kill" Twitter.

06:08 The Future of Social Graphs - Debate if social graphs still relevant given rise of algorithmic feeds on TikTok. Threads may succeed if it can transplant Instagram's graph.

13:33 Content on Threads - Brit discusses the type of content she may post on Threads, noting it could attract a mainstream Instagram audience.

14:24 Audience - The hosts debate who Brit's audience on Threads may be, with Brit noting lifestyle-focused women in their 30s and 40s who are not currently on Twitter.

17:01 Algorithmic vs. Graph-Based - They discuss how Threads will likely use algorithms to boost content but the social graph provides a foundation.

31:01 Twitter's Future - The hosts debate whether Twitter is dying but agree it's hard to see it re-energizing in a positive direction.

39:04 Chat GPT Engagement Down - Dave shares that usage of Chat GPT and other AI chatbots is declining as initial excitement fades.

44:12 Full Body Scans - The hosts discuss new startups building full body scanners for early disease detection, though some question if the technology is meaningful yet.

Brought To You By:

⁠⁠The Information⁠⁠

⁠⁠Slow Ventures⁠⁠

⁠⁠Offline Ventures⁠⁠

#4: MMA, M&A and Misfits; Silicon Valley's weird cultural moment Jun 30, 2023

Show notes

The Morins and the Lessins debate the question of how much of a "misfit" you have to be to win in tech and whether or not the M&A market will coming roaring back. Plus, "More or Less" lightning round on the Musk v. Zuckerberg cage match.

Discussed:

https://www.theinformation.com/articles/musk-v-zuckerberg-and-silicon-valleys-dangerous-road
https://www.wsj.com/articles/silicon-valley-microdosing-ketamine-lsd-magic-mushrooms-d381e214

https://michaelafreemanmd.com/Research.html

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/newsroom/news-releases/psilocybin-treatment-for-major-depression-effective-for-up-to-a-year-for-most-patients-study-shows
https://www.theinformation.com/articles/a-long-strange-trip-for-the-uber-for-nurses?rc=hwneun

Show Notes:

00:01 Databricks buying Mosaic for $1B - The group discusses the deal, with Britt arguing it signals a return of M&A activity. Others are more cautious, saying one deal does not make a trend. They debate if deals are coming back.

07:12 Drug use and mental health in Silicon Valley - There are differing views on neurodivergence in founders and the role of drugs. Dave argues most founders suffer from mental health issues and need tools to manage it. Others debate the line between creativity and responsibility.

25:18 "Crazy founder" narrative - They debate whether founders need to be "crazy" or "misfits" to succeed. Jessica argues the narrative excludes many potential founders and is problematic. Sam says most founders are "crazy" because they don't fit into normal jobs.

34:06 Elon vs Zuckerberg "fight" - While finding the potential fight silly, they see it as a symptom of lack of clear direction in tech culture currently. Brit argues women founders would never do something so ridiculous.

Brought To You By:

⁠⁠The Information⁠⁠

⁠⁠Slow Ventures⁠⁠

⁠⁠Offline Ventures⁠

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