More or Less - Dave Morin, Jessica Lessin, Brit Morin, and Sam Lessin

Latest Episodes:

#32: Taylor Swift vs. MrBeast w/Casey Neistat and Ricky Van Veen Feb 02, 2024

Show notes

In a special episode, the gang sits down with two digital media veterans and stars to discuss the current era of digital fame, the future of YouTube, TikTok, what A.I. means for creators, and more.

Takeaways

The rise of small creators and the viability of their work is a result of the democratization of content creation and the ability to build communities of fans.
The shift from physical space to online identity has allowed individuals to define their uniqueness and value based on their voice and audience rather than their geographical location.
The challenges of fame and the entitlement of fans can impact creators' mental health and privacy.
AI has the potential to revolutionize content creation by providing powerful tools for creators and elevating those with a unique perspective. AI also has the potential to desensitize people to personal conversations and wash away the value of authenticity.
Investment in personal outreach and one-on-one conversations holds significant power and can create meaningful connections.
Refined bullshit sensors have developed due to the abundance of AI-generated content, leading to skepticism and a desire for raw and real interactions.
The value of effort and authenticity in content creation cannot be replaced by AI-generated perfection.

Show Notes

00:00:04 - Introduction

00:01:07 - Broadcasting from Lessinfest in Jackson Hole

00:02:40 - Origin of Podcast Title

00:05:48 - Tech World Updates

00:06:09 - Elon Musk's Pay Package Lawsuit

00:09:28 - Delaware's Influence on Corporate Governance

00:10:18 - Amazon and iRobot Deal

00:11:08 - Mergers and Acquisitions Climate

00:12:16 - Super Bowl 2024 Predictions

00:13:16 - Taylor Swift's Impact on the NFL

00:14:04 - Cultural Significance of Taylor Swift

00:15:25 - Changing World of Creators and Media

00:16:05 - Fandom and Influencer Shifts

00:18:04 - NFL and Celebrity Integration

00:19:47 - Megastars vs. Long Tail of Influencers

00:20:24 - Fandom and Community Support

00:21:44 - Middle Class of Celebrity

00:22:39 - MrBeast's Universal Appeal

00:23:35 - Niche Appeal and Creator Identity

00:24:36 - Creator Burnout and Quitting YouTube

00:25:14 - Creator Fame and Mental Health

00:26:30 - Parasocial Relationships with Podcasters

00:27:37 - Younger Generations Rejecting Social Media

00:28:13 - Personal Connection vs. AI Interactions

00:32:00 - There Is No Fame Like YouTube Fame

00:33:11 - Public Perception of Fame

00:34:02 - New York City's Attitude Towards Celebrities

00:35:16 - Maintaining Privacy and Safety as a Creator

00:36:28 - AI's Impact on the Creator Economy

00:38:49 - AI and the Value of Personal Outreach

00:39:26 - AI Enhancing Creator-Fan Interaction?

00:40:09 - AI's Potential to Devalue Personal Investment

00:41:06 - AI Brit and Real Brit

00:42:19 - TikTok's Creative Tools

00:46:10 - AI as a Tool for Creators

00:48:17 - AI and the Perception of Authenticity

00:53:48 - AI and the Value of Human Connection

00:55:25 - AI and the Devaluation of Perfection

00:57:23 - Pop Culture Corner

#31: Fintech Struggles, Netflix Rises and 'Big' is Winning Jan 26, 2024

Show notes

From Netflix to the NFL, the incumbents are having quite a moment. Plus, crypto's new energy and the gang's fiercely different views on.... peptides.

Show Notes

00:00 Introduction and Silicon Valley banter

01:03 Discussion about football and personal influences

03:15 Challenges in the news and startup landscape

06:50 Struggles of fintech companies like Brex

08:11 Success of Netflix and the streaming wars

09:11 Difficulties of platformization in fintech

15:22 Investing in fintech and the challenges of valuation

20:31 Future of Stripe and the fintech industry

24:39 Network effect and competition in the payments industry

27:22 Need for a unique business model to compete with incumbents

28:20 Impact of crypto on transaction costs

28:41 Promise of Crypto

30:21 Rise of Stablecoins

32:41 Future of Payments

37:31 Success of Netflix

46:27 Re-Bundling of Streaming Services

49:16 Power of Big Players

53:21 Future of Media

53:54 Impact of Apple TV

54:26 Oscar Nominations and Movie Lengths

55:29 The Influence of TikTok

57:32 Future of Robotics in Beauty and Wellness

58:51 Wellness Gadgets and Peptides

01:00:41 Introducing Paul and His Gaming Startup

01:02:19 Closing Remarks

#30: The Great App Store Debate, Layoffs, and Playoffs...Oh My! Jan 19, 2024

Show notes

As regulators move in, the gang discusses the future of Apple and Google's app stores and their role over the next decade. Plus, the new layoff normal and Silicon Valley gets classy.

SHOW NOTES

00:00 Opening and Introductions

01:11 Working with Partners

03:14 The Information Gala and Dress Code

03:45 NFL Playoffs and Sports Betting

07:02 Layoffs at YouTube and Privacy Changes

11:29 Apple Allowing Third-Party Payment Mechanisms

14:56 Frustrations with the App Store

16:21 Importance and Future of the App Store

21:20 Rabbit R1 and AI Powered Gadgets

27:31 ChatGPT App Store as a Potential Competitor to the Apple App Store?

28:23 Difference in Distribution Advantage between the ChatGPT App Store and Facebook Platform

29:05 Importance of Distribution Opportunities for Developers on New Platforms

30:03 Collapse of the Economic Model of Facebook Platform and the Potential Challenges for the ChatGPT App Store

32:55 Potential Advantage of Google Integrating a Bard App Store

33:30 Uncertainty of Monetization and Revenue Opportunities for Developers on AI App Stores

36:05 Long-Term Competition between Apple, Google, Meta, and Adobe in the AI and Platform Space

42:43 Debate on the App Store's Anti-Competitive Practices

46:04 Potential of AI to Make Google Services Stickier

47:41 Use of AI and Language Learning Apps for Children

48:47 Announcement of a New Season of More or Less and Future Plans

#29: Is the Year of Startup Austerity Over? What Can Save the News Business? Jan 12, 2024

Show notes

In the first pod of 2024, the gang previews the year in VC to come and OpenAI vs. NYT. Plus, layoffs, boomerang VC and Brit's oh-so-Brit resolution.

#28: What We Got Right and Wrong in ’23 and Calls for ’24 Dec 22, 2023

Show notes

The gang does a retro on their 2023 calls…from AI to Vision Pro (we couldn’t come up with a Z)…and makes predictions for tech, media, and capital in 2024.

BOOK RECOMMENDATIONS:
The Creative Act, A Way of Being by Rick Rubin
The Order of Time by Carlo Rovelli
Project Hail Mary by Andy Weir
Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow by Gabrielle Zevin

SHOW NOTES:
00:00 Introduction and Holiday Reflections
03:06 The Adobe-Figma Merger
05:35 The Pro-Capitalism Argument
06:52 Antitrust Laws and Government Intervention
09:03 The Valuation and Future of M&A
16:07 Reviewing VC and IPO Predictions
18:32 The Future of Remote Work
30:00 Twitter and the Rise of Threads
40:20 Appreciating Instagram and the Future of Social
41:19 The Slow Future of Threads
42:33 Compliments and Bromance
43:14 Predictions for Audio and Video Experiences
43:39 The Return of Path
44:17 Apple Vision Pro and the Future of MR
46:24 Spatial Video and Memories
47:10 Losing Memory and Talking to Ourselves
48:43 AI Layoffs and Clip Art Music
50:48 Taylor Swift and Creator AI
52:22 More Crypto Predictions
57:12 TikTok's Fate and the Chaotic Presidential Election
59:39 Pickleball Rollups and Crypto Launches
01:01:26 Expecting the Unexpected in 2024
01:08:23 Book Recommendations
01:10:29 Closing Remarks and Farewell

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#27: Make Number Go Up, and The Problem with Nonprofits Dec 15, 2023

Show notes

The gang discusses the Harvard debacle (and Sam's run for the Board of Overseers), why double-bottom lines are challenging, tech regulation, and more.

DISCUSSED:

The 19th News

SHOW NOTES:

[00:00] Opening.

[01:10] We have a non-zero hit rate on making things things.

[01:50] How did we start the pod?

[03:01] The parable of launching a rocket at the moon.

[04:23] This week's headlines.

[06:28] Venture Capital Strategy: Why go super vertical?

[10:56] Guess the Product: Is it a Cold Plunge a Shiftwave Chair or ???

[14:03] Wild new moisture farming technology.

[18:03] The big debate: Harvard, nonprofit governance, and the future of society.

[21:31] Sam is now running as a write in candidate for the Harvard Board of Overseers.

[24:40] Has business become too big? Or has business just become too weird?

[25:55] The tale of two Twitters: one missionary, one capitalist.

[29:01] How do you solve for leadership in a woke world moving forward?

[29:45] Is there a strong argument that nonprofits should not exist?

[33:15] The problem with "make number go up".

[35:34] Isn't it the case that all organization exist at some intersection of "number go up" and values?

[37:00] The dirty secret of nonprofits: they have to raise money.

[37:36] What happens when institutions become too rich that they no longer listen to external feedback?

[38:51] The bigger question about the gap between the board and the people at these institutions.

[39:46] Is this a transient property of internet culture?

[42:32] Quick return to talking about TikTok governance.

[45:55] Jess plugs one of her favorite nonprofit, 19th News, which exists to cover all of the range of topics and polices and ideas that relate to women.

[49:28] Brit is heading to the California Governor's Mansion to the California Gender Equity Summit.

[52:50] Closing.

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#26: Google Gemini, Meet Crypto-Cyber-Crystals Dec 08, 2023

Show notes

The gang discusses the release of Google Gemini...the crypto resurgence, crystals and the Cybertruck.

DISCUSSED:

SHOW NOTES:

[0:00:00] Opening. [0:02:15] Very Very Happy Birthday to Brit Morin! Questions about automated birthday messages. [0:03:20] Idea: Automated Birthday Greeting AI Thing [0:04:24] Idea: AI Responder [0:07:13] Headlines: Next volley in the AI wars with Google launching the Gemini AI Model, more layoffs at Spotify, media news with Disney finishing acquiring the rest of Hulu from Comcast, more bad news in venture capital land with a Boston based firm closing it's doors, and some book recommendations. [0:09:35] The Information Wrapped: With The Information turning 10 this week, what are Jess' big lessons? Biggest stories? [0:11:35] Google AI: What are the implications of powerful multi-modal models like Gemini? [0:13:59] Impressive More or Less Show Notes brought to you by Google Gemini. [0:14:57] It was always ridiculous to count Google out. Of course they were going to build really interesting stuff. [0:16:50] An even more interesting Google AI Announcement: DeepMind's breakthrough in discovering millions of new crystals and other materials. [0:21:10] Don't forget Meta AI: WhatsApp Bots, Meta Imagine, and Meta buying the most Nvidia H100s in the world. [0:23:05] The Big Product Strategy Question: You're running Google or Meta, what is your AI rollout strategy? [0:32:28] VC Temperature Check: Firms shutting down, IPOs were suppose to come but did not really come, yet crypto is ripping? [0:35:45] Next Phase of Crypto: We are now in the phase of crypto where we are starting to connect these technologies to the real world. [0:37:14] Crypto, Fandom, and CRM 3.0: Giving creators the power to engage more deeply with their fandoms. [0:41:33] The pitches in crypto have finally become good business pitches. [0:41:58] So where are we on crypto tokens now? [0:43:55] Happy Birthday to Brit again! [0:44:47] Book Recommendation: The Organized Mind - Thinking Straight in the Age of Information Overload [0:47:34] A More or Less Book Proposal: Is our date night an ops meeting or a date night? [0:48:45] Book Recommendation: How to Know a Person - The Art of Seeing Others Deeply and Being Deeply Seen [0:49:50] Cybertruck: Thoughts on the Tesla Cybertruck design, and engineering. [0:52:25] Closing.

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#25: TikTok, Porn and The Immediate Risks of AI Dec 02, 2023

Show notes

The gang details thoughts on AGI risk and dives into the more immediate risks of AI, like why TikTok should be banned in the US and what to do about AI porn and deepfakes. Plus, startup product ideas abound as Dave, Sam and Brit debate what the future holds (both good and bad) for couples counseling, social media and entertainment. SHOW NOTES: [00:00:00] Open. [00:04:44] The question is not what AI can do, the question is what AI can't do. [00:07:50] Questions of AI governance around TikTok. [00:10:47] Should we be teaching AI in schools? [00:15:25] AI porn and its impact. [00:19:07] What does the future look like where AI porn is just normal? [00:21:04] Protecting teenagers from AI deepfakes. [00:24:22] The rising importance of real world experiences and communities. [00:27:21] AI technology weaving into social fabric. [00:32:55] What is the addiction after the addiction of TikTok? Does social networks become not who do you want to follow but who do you want to follow you? [00:35:34] What if you could pay to introduce hilarious characters into real life? [00:38:43] What if app features were only available for one month? [00:40:47] The power of human networks. [00:44:06] The power of storytelling. [00:46:21] Improving social connections with technology. [00:49:19] Close. TRY THE GPT: http://gpt.moreorlesspod.com FOLLOW THE POD: http://threads.net/moreorless FOLLOW THE GANG: http://threads.net/davemorin http://threads.net/brit http://threads.net/jlessin http://threads.net/lessin

Bonus: Erin & Sara Foster of Favorite Daughter on Everything Founders are Afraid to Say Nov 29, 2023

Show notes

DISCUSSED: For this bonus episode of More or Less, last month at The Information's WTF Conference, Jessica interviewed the sisters behind the hot clothing brand Favorite Daughter, the World's First Podcast and Oversubscribed Ventures. They discussed entrepreneurship, building for today's customers and why it is sometimes a good idea to say everything you are thinking. SHOW NOTES: [00:03:06] Embrace being underestimated, say yes. [00:06:05] Embrace opportunities outside your comfort zone. [00:12:38] Authenticity drives successful consumer brands. [00:16:43] Podcasting is a low-lift, enjoyable endeavor. [00:19:29] Life doesn't always go as planned. [00:25:32] Associate with smarter people. [00:33:27] Importance of direct communication. [00:35:35] Expansion into new categories planned. TRY THE GPT: http://gpt.moreorlesspod.com FOLLOW THE POD: http://threads.net/moreorless FOLLOW THE GANG: http://threads.net/davemorin http://threads.net/brit http://threads.net/jlessin http://threads.net/lessin

#24: Sam Altman - Religious Cult Leader or CEO? Nov 22, 2023

Show notes

This week’s episode takes you front and center into the continuous unfolding of the OpenAI saga, including the different versions of the Sam Altman persona. The quad shares extensive debate on what could come next and why, with key insight into AI as a practical business technology vs. the fears around AGI, and the challenges of a for-profit business funding a non-profit mission. Listen in to learn lessons from other platforms, (especially those without strong economic rationality), observations about the key people involved, thoughts on how this will shape Silicon Valley’s future, and more.

DISCUSSED: https://www.theinformation.com/articles/from-king-to-exile-to-king-again-the-inside-story-of-sam-altmans-whiplash-week https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/11/sam-altman-open-ai-chatgpt-chaos/676050/ SHOW NOTES: [00:00:00] Open. [00:02:10] Recap: Our goal is to talk about the bigger picture here. [00:04:10] The rise of the Popcorn emoji. [00:04:52] This is our Kardashians. [00:05:58] Why are people fixated on this? [00:09:30] Religious fundamentalism at play. "Feel the AGI!" [00:12:49] The only way to protect against AGI is to create AGI first? [00:14:20] How did this governance breakdown happen? [00:17:51] Anytime you need a flowchart to explain your org structure you are starting from a bad position. [00:19:00] 11 billion dollars is completely irrelevant to Microsoft, a 3 trillion dollar company. [00:20:00] The key point in the miscalculation: the customers. [00:22:30] Adam D'Angelo is one of the highest integrity people. [00:23:41] Organizing your life and work around things you can trust. Do you want to trust American business and governance or fundamentalism? [00:24:13] The economics of Facebook Platform as a historical example. [00:26:55] Should he restructure the organization entirely? [00:28:04] Shouldn't we have some concerns with putting this 100% commercial realm? Or do we think regulation will fill the gap? [00:28:42] What about decentralization and open source? [00:31:02] What mechanism is there to implement a restructuring? [00:34:48] Sam Altman's side projects. [00:41:20] This technology is so powerful and we are all customers of it. [00:42:07] Do you guys have a single portfolio company that would die if OpenAI went away? [00:42:40] Silicon Valley desperately needs a story right now. [00:43:30] What does this mean for the future of Silicon Valley? [00:44:04] How dangerous is AI, really? [00:45:20] Sam Altman the cultist versus Sam Altman the pragmatist? [00:46:40] What is this technology, really? [00:47:51] You are the OpenAI board, do you vote for or against Sam Altman as CEO? [00:54:25] You are Sam Altman, what do you do? [01:00:07] Trust and board strurcture. [01:04:00] Close. TRY THE GPT: http://gpt.moreorlesspod.com FOLLOW THE POD: http://threads.net/moreorless FOLLOW THE GANG: http://threads.net/davemorin http://threads.net/brit http://threads.net/jlessin http://threads.net/lessin

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