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    Religion & Spirituality

    Listen, Learn & Love Hosted by Richard Ostler

    Welcome to our podcast!

    My name is Richard H. Ostler and I am a native of Salt Lake City, small business owner, married father of six with several grandchildren. I believe in and am deeply committed to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and want it to work for a wider group.
    I am the author of three books:

    “Listen Learn and Love: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints” published in 2020 available at Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462135773)

    “Listen Learn and Love: Improving Latter-day Saint Culture” published in 2022. The book explores who we can do better to help all Latter-day Saints feel more welcome, needed and a feeling of belonging in our congregations. Available at Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462139566)

    “Listen Learn and Love: Building the Good Ship Zion” released in Sept 2023. The book explores additional topics to help all Latter-day Saint feel welcome and needed on the Good Ship Zion. Available at Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462145280)

    The purpose of all three books is to help us better create Zion by helping more feel welcome, a sense of belonging, and needed in our congregations.

    Proceed from the books go the Stockton Power Memorial Scholarship (www.standingforstockton.com) in honor of Stockton Powers a gay Latter-day Saint teenager who died of suicide in 2016. Everything I do is a self-funded labor of love ❤️

    I am the author of two Ensign articles:

    ‘How the Savior’s Healing Power Applies to Repenting from Sexual Sin’ (August 2020/YSA Digital Only) www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/08/young-adults/how-the-saviors-healing-power-applies-to-repenting-from-sexual-sin

    ‘7 Tips for Overcoming Pornography Use’ (October, page 72) www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/10/young-adults/7-tips-for-overcoming-pornography-use.

    This podcast is designed to discuss some more complicated issues in our church to help all of us better “listen, learn and love” so we can minister in a more effective way to all of our Heavenly Parents’ children.

    Podcasts are indexed by category at listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts

    Thank you for joining us. You can’t donate to this podcast. There are no sponsors. But you can leave a review/rate the podcast on the platform you are listening and/or leave a review at Deseret Book/Amazon on my books.

    With love, Richard ‘Papa’ Ostler ❤

    Twitter: twitter.com/Papa_Ostler
    IG: www.instagram.com/papa_ostler
    Facebook: facebook.com/richard.ostler.5
    Substack: https://substack.com/@papaostler
    E-mail: richard@ostlergroup.com

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    Copyright: © All rights reserved

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    Latest Episodes:
    Episode 859: Dr. Ben Bailey, Psychologist and student of Nonviolent Communication (NVC) Jan 28, 2026
    Show notes

    My friend Dr. Ben Bailey (PhD from BYU in Psychology currently working at UVU as a Mental Health Therapist) joins us to talk about things close to his heart and work as a therapist to bring more hope and understanding, reduce divisiveness, and bring us together as the same human family including: * Nonviolent Communication (NVC) as a framework to become a better peacemaker * Moving from judgmental thinking into a language of feelings and needs * Understanding differences in others by understanding their needs * How to talk across difference with people who have different opinions than us about the rights of LGBTQ individuals * Distinguishing empathy from agreement (understanding someone does not require endorsing their beliefs) * Prioritizing safety before connection * A more compassion focused approach to understanding pornography use * Normalizing and having a better approach to doubt Thank you, Ben, for being on the podcast. I learned so much from you on how to feel better about ourselves and bring us together as the same human family. I also appreciate your work as a therapist and all you are doing to love, help, and give hope to others. Links: NVC Book: https://nonviolentcommunication.com/product/nvc/ Center For Nonviolent Communication: https://www.cnvc.org/ The Return of the Prodigal Son: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/122877/the-return-of-the-prodigal-son-by-henri-jm-nouwen/ My Music Links: https://linktr.ee/benbaileymusic

    Episode 857: Rhonda Monson and Her Gay Son Dakota Moses Jan 19, 2026
    Show notes

    My friends Rhonda Monson (married mother of three, recently returned senior missionary, LGBTQIA ally, therapist, life coach, and retreat facilitator) and Dakota Moses (gay, age 30, married to his husband Tyree for 8+ years, deeply spiritual) join us to share their story. Dakota starts and shares with us his journey being gay and LDS (and out before the age of 12) to his parents and his local leaders. Dakota talks about how he was not “permitted to be himself, or even be” and painful church experiences along the way. Dakota talks about doing everything he could to serve a mission but how that dream eventually shifted—and the deep spiritual impressions along the way. Rhonda (whose former husband is gay) talks about her love and support of Dakota and how she is both an active Latter-day Saint and loves the LGBTQIA people in her life. She talks about her wonderful son Dakota and his husband Tyree and her love of them, the good men they are, and keeping the family circle together. They talk about a new podcast they have started together called “I’ll Walk With You”. Please check out and share their podcast. Thank you, Rhonda and Dakota, for being on the podcast. You two inspire me. Thanks for making this world a better place. Honored to have you on the podcast! Links: I’ll Walk With You Podcast: https://illwalkwithyou.buzzsprout.com/2572731 Rhonda’s Therapy Practice: https://yourjourneyservices.com/

    Episode 856: Gordon Laws, Friend to Martin Family Who Lost Their Transgender Son Levi to Suicide Jan 12, 2026
    Show notes

    ** This podcast talks about suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat 988 ** My friend Gordon Laws joins us to talk about supporting Dave and Kimi Martin when they lost their transgender son Levi to suicide in Dec 2022. Gordon talks about Levi—a bright, capable, curious young man—and the difficult journey he walked having Swyer Syndrome and being transgender. Gordon talks about the valiant efforts of Dave and Kimi to support their son. Gordon talks about the immediate days after Levi died and his role to minister to the Martin family—including writing his obituary and eulogy. Gordon talks about ministering principles to support others in their time of crisis/need—principles that help us all do better. Gordon talks about how the Savior ministers to those on the margins and invites us to better understand, love, and support transgender people. Thank you, Gordon for being on the podcast. I learned so much from you. I encourage everyone to listen to and share this episode. Levi’s Eulogy: https://www.instagram.com/p/CqI2JAKpZWJ/ Sanctuary Documentary: https://sanctuarydoc.com/ Levi’s Obituary: https://www.d-mfh.com/obituary/Levi-Martin Episode 631 (David and Kimi Martin): https://soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-631-dave-and-kimi-martin-transgender-son Gordon's Irrentum Article (fictional story of Levi's premortal interview with God): https://irreantum.associationmormonletters.org/_20-1-i-can-take-or-leave-it/

    Episode 855: Stephanie Roach, Parenting Special Needs Children Jan 04, 2026
    Show notes

    My friend Stephanie Roach—who is married mother of two special needs children age 24 (daughter) and age 22 (son)—joins us to share how we can better support friends and family members with specific needs. In the episode, Stephanie talks about the following: 1. Historical treatment of individuals with special needs 2. Geraldo Rivera’s documentary 3. Improved laws and understanding—often led by special needs folks 4. Utah Parent Center—great resource 5. Insights and examples on how we can do better 6. Suggestions from her daughter I learned so much from Stephanie about how to better support the special needs people in my life—I wish I had listened to this episode decades ago. Stephanie is also the person who suggested the name of our podcast “Listen, Learn and Love” about 8 years ago. I will be forever grateful to Stephanie for her help. Thank you, Stephanie, for coming on the podcast. Your family is awesome. I encourage everyone to listen and share this episode. Links: Utah Parent Center: https://utahparentcenter.org/

    Episode 854: Alex Cutini, CEO of Encircle, Powerful Story Dec 28, 2025
    Show notes

    My friend Alex Cutini joins us to share his story: Alex Cutini grew up Catholic in Brazil, sensing early on that he was different from the other boys. At 18, his search for meaning led him to join the LDS Church, serve a mission a year later in Porto Alegre, Brazil, and eventually move to the United States to graduate from BYU-Idaho. Beneath the surface, the strain of hiding who he was grew into profound depression and moments of suicidal ideation. Coming out meant stepping away from the church and facing the heartbreak of family members who struggled to accept him. Yet alongside that pain came grace: a deep, enduring love with his husband Matt, now married for ten years, and unexpected, unwavering support from his mission president and the missionary and family who baptized him. As both of their families slowly learned how to love more fully, Alex found his way forward—toward healing, purpose, and ultimately becoming the CEO of Encircle, where his story now helps save lives. Alex then shares the story of Encircle, now serving communities through five locations across Utah. He honors Stephenie Larsen’s original vision and courage in founding Encircle, and explains how that vision has grown into a lifeline for queer youth and their families. Encircle provides affirming clinical therapy, currently accepting new clients, alongside a wide range of free programs and services designed to create safety, connection, and hope. Together, these offerings reflect a simple but powerful mission: to ensure no young person or family has to navigate identity, mental health, or belonging alone. This is one of the most powerful podcasts we’ve ever done. Alex’s coming-out story is profoundly moving as he shares his journey from shame to self-love and acceptance—traveling from darkness, depression, and little hope to light, happiness, and a deeper capacity to help others. I wish everyone—straight or queer—could hear his story. The principles and insights he shares have the power to help us all. Thank you, Alex, for being on the podcast and for your extraordinary work at Encircle. You are making a tremendous difference for good in our community, and you are one of my heroes. And to everyone involved with Encircle—thank you. I am deeply supportive of your lifesaving work. Links: Alex’s Instagram: @alexcutini Alex's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexcutini/ Encircle's Instagram: @encircletogether Encircle: https://encircletogether.org/

    Episode 853: Amy Watkins Jensen, “Women on the Stand” Dec 21, 2025
    Show notes

    My friend Amy Watkins Jensen (teacher, writer, active LDS, founder of “Women on the Stand”) join us to share her story including: * Growing up Mormon in Chicago * Mission to Argentina—first awareness of gendered imbalance * Brother coming out as gay * Carol Lynn Pearson’s living room * Y/W LGBTQ service project * Backstory starting “Women on the Stand” * Area Presidency ending practice, heartache, letter writing * President Oak’s recent invitation on the need to do better * Best practices Any shares powerful and important principles behind the movement (which isn’t asking for doctrinal changes) including: * Aligning of practices with our doctrine (which is divine equality) * Respectfully relentless If you are looking to better support Latter-day Saint women, please listen to this podcast and connect with Amy’s work. As Amy teaches “It will help us come closer to the divine equality that is our doctrine—and part of our beautiful theology—allowing us to thrive”. Thank you, Amy, for your great work. You are making a difference. I learned so much from you—you give me hope! Links: Best practices link: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Xuxe0qF_naSVfF3FifQzvv9AAQeHdzD5LU-AaZ_mlws/edit?usp=drivesdk Hope for Future practices link: https://docs.google.com/document/d/19RuApg_1a-GGZYERHhvVRjI23IKPI3ooAdjUHE-gZAs/edit?usp=sharing Instagram account: @womenonthestand Substack: https://womenonthestand.substack.com/

    Episode 852: Andy Newman—Episode Two—Mixed Faith Marriages Dec 14, 2025
    Show notes

    *Note: This episode is about my goal to reduce the tension between those who stay in the Church and those who leave** My friend Andy Newman (married father of three, Ex-Mormon, therapist, LGBTQ ally, bridge builder) join us to discuss: * Understanding/supporting your spouse that left the church * Understanding/supporting your spouse that stays in the church * What helps couple stay strong * Shares values over shared beliefs * The Gottman Method * A,C,T,S Andy’s work is more than theoretical—as he talks “in-real-life” about how this works in their marriage with examples of how he supports his wife and three daughters in their church attendance (including giving a talk at a daughter’s baptism) and the peace he has found with people he loves holding different beliefs. Andy mentions the work of Allan and Kattie Mount and their podcast “Marriage on a Tightrope”. Thank you, Andy, for bringing your clinical expertise and own personal journey to help those in a mixed-faith marriage. I learned so much from you and appreciate your voice and healing work in our community. You are a good man—glad to have you on the podcast! Links: Psychology today: www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists/andy-newman-gilbert-az/974441 IG: www.instagram.com/andynewmanlpc/ TikTok: www.tiktok.com/@deconstruction_therapy Twitter: @andynewmanlpc Epsiode One: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-846-andy-newman-episode-one/id1347971725?i=1000734877746

    Episode 851: Rebecca Mullen: Life Coach, LGBTQ Ally, Author, Podcaster Dec 07, 2025
    Show notes

    My friend Rebecca Mullen (lives in Colorado, master certified life coach) joins us to talk about her work of healing including: * Becoming an LGBTQ ally in her younger years * Removing shame and providing healing * Helping everyone to be their authentic selves * Loving people that Churches don’t always love/accept * Principles for managing marriage conflict * Importance and application of love If you are looking for insights/perspectives to heal and bring people closer together, Rebecca’s work will help you. Thank you, my friend Rebecca, for being on the podcast—your great heart—and all you are doing to bring us together as the same human family. Links: Rebecca’s web site (you can find her contact info, life coach work, podcast and book here): https://RebeccaMullenCoaching.com/ Outdoor Therapist episode: https://podcasts.apple.com/dk/podcast/episode-736-zak-hazlett-the-outdoor-therapist/id1347971725?i=1000645256176

    Episode 850: Katie Searle: Powerful Story of Navigating Loss, Grief, and the Courage to Rebuild Dec 01, 2025
    Show notes

    My friend Katie Searle (certified mediator, philanthropic consultant, grant writer, and mother) joins us to share her story, including: * Being raised in two homes after parents divorced (mother and her wife; father and his wife) * Going to BYU-Hawaii, part of Dr Chad Ford’s Peacebuilding Program and working at the McKay Center for Intercultural Understanding, temple marriage * Co-founding Kinfolk Magazine, adapting to the pace of a fast growing start-up Leaving the Church (LGBTQIA+ issues/feeling uneasy with messages that harmed people she loves, valuing authenticity over obedience, developing own moral compass) * Moving to Copenhagen and heartbreaking loss of a baby son Leo, at 5 months pregnant; the isolation of grieving abroad without community * Becoming pregnant again, husband coming out as gay, marriage ending Moving back to Oregon, managing heartbreak, daughter born, support from mother and her wife * Falling in love with Joe, his death on the day he was to move in, profound grief Opening heart to a new love with Matt and their committed partnership, shared life, and blended family Katie writes about grief with these powerful words: “I never sought to be an expert in grief and loss, but that is where my life journey has taken me. In navigating two separate households as a child, a transition of faith, the losses of a child, a marriage, a career, and the sudden death of my ‘chapter two’—my soul love—I’ve become well-acquainted with the darkness of deep loss, grief, and the grit of burning resilience. I care deeply about equipping others with the ability to adapt to life’s unavoidable conflicts, trauma, tragedies and stressors. Learning to live with adversity and grief in a culture that is pain-adverse can feel impossible and incredibly lonely, but there are ways to move forward (rather than moving on), rebuild and reclaim joy. I know this, because I’ve lived it time and time again—and so can you.” Katie is also the Assistant Director of the Waymakers initiative (with Chad Ford & Patrick Mason), and planner of their conflict resolution workshop series, REPAIR. Dr. Chad Ford writes about Katie’s roll in their recent workshop to "Maintaining Love during Faith Transitions" with these words: “Katie came up next. She spoke about her own faith transition in the most vulnerable way possible. She reminded us of both the fragility of change and the bravery it takes to find truth and belonging, especially when that means making choices that ask ourselves and others to leave behind old versions of ourselves. There were tears flowing as Katie, in her own graceful way, reminded us what it means to be human.” Thank you, Katie, for your courage to share your story—which helps all of us better understand grief and more tools to help others walking this road. Thank you for your bridge building work in our community. Thanks for all you are doing to bring us together as the same human family. Links: Waymakers' next REPAIR event: Interfaith REPAIR: A multi-faith workshop on healing divides and building communities of peace, March 6th, 2026, Salt Lake City (Tickets on sale early 2026) Waymakers: https://www.waymakers.us Support Waymakers: https://donorbox.org/waymakersproject Katie Searle's website & contact info: https://katiesearle.com/ Chad Ford's Earlier Episode: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-847-dr-chad-ford-new-book-seventy-times-seven/id1347971725?i=1000735977230

    Episode 849: Isaac Durfey: Black/Gay Latter-day Saint, Updated Story Nov 25, 2025
    Show notes

    My friend Isaac Durfey (who was on episode 833) joins us to update listeners on his journey including: * Parent leaving on a mission * What happened to help him stopping “hating himself for being gay” * Importance of new beginnings * Friends like Jake and Joe Sharp (who were on episode 811) * Feeling about the Family Proclamation * Hope for the future * Love of the LDS Church and the support/love he receives Thank you, my friend Isaac, for being on the podcast—you are a good man. Links: Episode 833: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/episode-833-isaac-durfey-black-gay-latter-day-saint/id1347971725?i=1000710494050 Episode 811: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/episode-811-jake-and-joe-sharp-lost-brother-sam-to/id1347971725?i=1000691741343

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