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    Religion & Spirituality

    Listen, Learn & Love Hosted by Richard Ostler

    Welcome to our podcast!

    My name is Richard H. Ostler and I am a native of Salt Lake City, small business owner, married father of six with several grandchildren. I believe in and am deeply committed to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and want it to work for a wider group.
    I am the author of three books:

    “Listen Learn and Love: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints” published in 2020 available at Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462135773)

    “Listen Learn and Love: Improving Latter-day Saint Culture” published in 2022. The book explores who we can do better to help all Latter-day Saints feel more welcome, needed and a feeling of belonging in our congregations. Available at Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462139566)

    “Listen Learn and Love: Building the Good Ship Zion” released in Sept 2023. The book explores additional topics to help all Latter-day Saint feel welcome and needed on the Good Ship Zion. Available at Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462145280)

    The purpose of all three books is to help us better create Zion by helping more feel welcome, a sense of belonging, and needed in our congregations.

    Proceed from the books go the Stockton Power Memorial Scholarship (www.standingforstockton.com) in honor of Stockton Powers a gay Latter-day Saint teenager who died of suicide in 2016. Everything I do is a self-funded labor of love ❤️

    I am the author of two Ensign articles:

    ‘How the Savior’s Healing Power Applies to Repenting from Sexual Sin’ (August 2020/YSA Digital Only) www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/08/young-adults/how-the-saviors-healing-power-applies-to-repenting-from-sexual-sin

    ‘7 Tips for Overcoming Pornography Use’ (October, page 72) www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/10/young-adults/7-tips-for-overcoming-pornography-use.

    This podcast is designed to discuss some more complicated issues in our church to help all of us better “listen, learn and love” so we can minister in a more effective way to all of our Heavenly Parents’ children.

    Podcasts are indexed by category at listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts

    Thank you for joining us. You can’t donate to this podcast. There are no sponsors. But you can leave a review/rate the podcast on the platform you are listening and/or leave a review at Deseret Book/Amazon on my books.

    With love, Richard ‘Papa’ Ostler ❤

    Twitter: twitter.com/Papa_Ostler
    IG: www.instagram.com/papa_ostler
    Facebook: facebook.com/richard.ostler.5
    Substack: https://substack.com/@papaostler
    E-mail: richard@ostlergroup.com

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    Copyright: © All rights reserved

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    Latest Episodes:
    Episode 889: Chad Call, Executive Director Utah Pride May 10, 2026
    Show notes

    My friend Chad Call (late 30s, gay, former business/event executive, bridge builder) joins us to share his story. Chad talks about growing up in Kaysville Utah, serving a mission, being active in his YSA Ward, stepping away from the Church, coming out as gay and making his way forward. Chad talks about his supportive parents (Lisa and Jeff—Jeff was my missionary companion in England) and all they are doing to keep their family together including being on the front row of the Utah Pride Parade. This is a beautiful family love story—and an example on how to keep family relationship strong and healthy—even with people on different paths and different beliefs. Chad then talks about the Utah Pride Center—what the organization does—and how we can support them. Chad helped me better understand all the good that Utah Pride Center has done in our community and continued need role they provide. Please consider donating to Utah Pride Center (see show notes) and/or attending Utah Pride on June 6-7, 2026. Thank you Chad for being on the podcast. You are a good man and doing life-saving work in our community. Links: Utah Pride Donation: https://utahpridecenter.org/donate


    Episode 888: Amanda Wilkinson, New Book: "Walking With Grace: A Memoir In Two Voices" May 07, 2026
    Show notes

    Our guest today is Amanda Wilkinson — speaker, author, leadership consultant, and mother of five — joining us to talk about her new book "Walking with Grace," a mother-daughter collection that brings her daughter Gracelyn to life through her own words, art, music, and soul. Gracelyn passed away at age 20 on August 8, 2024. Amanda has also lost a son, Bennett. The book weaves a beautiful story of Grace through journal entries, original lyrics, and artwork. QR codes throughout the book also link to videos and music of Grace. In this episode, Amanda shares the life and goodness of Grace — all she served through years of significant health challenges — and some of the lessons learned along the way. If you are dealing with grief — or want to better understand and support others — please buy, read, and share Amanda and Grace's book. It will give you more tools and insights into the Atonement of Jesus Christ to find hope and peace in your life and help others. This is one of the most powerful podcasts we've done on this subject. Thank you Amanda for being on the podcast. I learned so much from you. I’m so sorry Grace and Bennett are gone. I’m grateful for your work to give others hope. You are making a huge difference in our world. You are awesome. Links: Amazon: https://a.co/d/0gDcLhBk Amanda’s website: https://amandawilkinsonspeaks.com/ Resources from Grace: BYUtv interview (start at 8:32): https://www.dev-byutv.org/e9313bb2-69ee-4174-b6bf-acbd8a97128e/promptings?player-open=true&content-id=e9313bb2-69ee-4174-b6bf-acbd8a97128e Strive to Be reel: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DCjp4YFRtNt/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== Gracelyn's recorded music: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=gracelyn+wilkinson


    Episode 887: Javier Aguilar, Bisexual BYU Student, Non-English Focused LGBTQ Podcast May 05, 2026
    Show notes

    My friend Javier “VJ” Aguilar (RM, from Mexico/Texas, Age 25, Current BYU Student) joins us to share his story. Javier talks about his journey to understand his sexual orientation and come out to family in a culture that is very different from the United States. Javier talks about the difficult conversations with his parents raised in a culture where this is compared to additions that can be “cured”. Javier—who has grace and loves his parents—talks about his journey to accept/love himself, find hope during deep depression, and find support. Once Javier removed the shame and accepted himself, he talks about his desire to help others—from a deep place of love. He talks about leading the Rexburg Pride parade and also start a podcast. The podcast focus is queer LDS stories where English is a second language. Javier talks about their work to name the podcast—finally ending up with “One More Seat at the Table”. Love this name! Please listen/share this podcast and connect with Javier’s podcast (see show notes). Thank you Javier to being on the podcast. You are brave and your work (along with your friends) is so needed in our community. Links: Javier’s Instagram: @vj_ag00 Podcast on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/un-lugar-m%C3%A1s-en-la-mesa/id1821754247 Podcast on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/25J076HVloGCw7PADv10v5?si=DEm_xgz7SNq2V1zMXpFV4w


    Episode 886: Stephanie, Life Story Through Music May 03, 2026
    Show notes

    My friend Stephanie (early 50s, active LDS) joins us to bravely share her story: Abuse survivor, early trauma Attempted suicide survivor Disfellowshipped Understanding and solving addictions Same-sex attraction Journey being active, not active, and now active in the Church Deep testimony of the Book of Mormon and God Stephanie frames her life story in music albums she has produced: “We Were Light Once Weren’t We” “Whisper To The Trees” “Still True” “The Long Way Home” The Mountain Moved (single)” Stephanie is one of our bravest guests—bravely sharing her story to help others walking difficult roads—and giving us all better insights to help others. Thank you Stephanie for being on the podcast. You are awesome. Links: Aurora Driftworks Albums: Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/3YsYnjjb1z6RkNqSQAkyJS?si=beygMf0gT0OyaFMCfHltOw Apple Music: https://music.apple.com/mx/artist/aurora-driftworks/1865623115 Aurora Driftworks on YouTube: https://music.youtube.com/channel/UCJz02CqrcO0QfPKf4j_DZpA


    Episode 885: Emily Groves, Age 18, Lesbian, Blind, Super Brave, Episode Two May 01, 2026
    Show notes

    **Note: In this episode, Emily talks about being blind. In her prior episode (877), Emily talked about being a Lesbian** My friend Emily Groves (student at Boise State University, doubling in bio and computer science, active LDS) joins us to share her story. This is a physical disability—not a intellection one About her disability Two approaches to disability (medical and social) The treatment of disabled people (Pity, Honor, Incompetence) The temple Disability isolation Disability vs sexual orientation Cure culture Tips of interacting with disabled people Thank you Emily—I learned so much from you! I encourage everyone to listen and share this podcast to better support our disabled friends and family members. Honored to have you on the podcast, Emily. You are a remarkable person! Links: Emily’s e-mail: emilygroves00@gmail.com


    Episode 884: Greg Prince Book “Gay Rights and the Mormon Church”, Episode One Apr 28, 2026
    Show notes

    My friend Greg Price (writer, scientist, businessman, philanthropist—see bio at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregory_Prince) joins us to talk about his book “Gay Rights and the Mormon Church: Intended Actions, Unintended Consequences” released in 2019. In this episode, Greg talks the history of the Church approach to homosexuality—going from the behavior model (it’s a choice) to *mostly* the biological model (it’s not a choice). Greg’s book documents when the Church started talking about this (1960’s), what was said, the impact, and how we have gradually moved to where we are today. Greg talks about these painful chapters (including when just identifying as gay would get your excommunicated and expelled for Church schools). To understand the road our LGBTQ members and their families are walking, I believe it is important to understand where we have come from—which is sobering as we learn the reality of early days and the impact of LGBTQ members and their families. Further, I think it helps our minds and hearts be open to the need to continue to bring more understand and support—as I feel we are not at the finish line as we work to expand the boarders of Zion. Episode Two will focus on the Church LGBTQ legal efforts (starting with Hawaii in the 1990s) to where we are today. Thank you Greg for being on the podcast and all your efforts to bring more understanding and support for LGBTQ Latter-day Saints and their families. Links: Greg’s Book on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08P7Q8QZB


    Episode 883: Daniel Carter and Devan Jensen, New Church Hymn “Long Ago, Within a Garden” Apr 26, 2026
    Show notes

    My friends Daniel Carter and Devan Jensen join us to share the story behind the beautiful new hymn “Long Ago, Within a Garden,” with text by Devan and music by Daniel, written in 1999 and added in February 2026 to Hymns—For Home and Church (no. 1210). Daniel, who worked in the Church Curriculum Department for 27 years before retiring in 2016, opens up about his personal journey. After coming out as gay, he made the decision to resign his membership—not out of anger, but as a step toward healing and “returning to love.” He shares moving insights about his path to self-acceptance, grace, peace, and his deep respect for others. Daniel is now married to his husband, Gale, and continues to express love for his Latter-day Saint roots and community. Devan, an active Latter-day Saint who worked alongside Daniel, reflects on their friendship and creative collaboration. They share their perspectives on the meaningful process of bringing this hymn to life. Elder Gérald Caussé Plays the Piano and Speaks About New Hymn, in Versailles, February 2026 (see show notes). The podcast then shifts as Daniel shares about his decision to resign his membership from the Church—and how that was not out of anger but his path to “heal and return to love.” Daniel shares his love for his Latter-day Saint roots and his community. Daniel talks about his journey to find love, self-acceptance, grace, peace, and respect for others—incredible moving insights. Devan talks about his support for his friend and their work together to create this song. This episode is really twofold: The inspiring story of the creation of a new hymn that will bless many lives Daniel’s deeply personal journey toward hope, acceptance, and peace—and their lasting friendship Thank you, Daniel and Devan, for your music, your honesty, and your example of being peacemakers. Your story helps us stay connected as one human family. Links: Link to hymn: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/media/music/songs/long-ago-within-a-garden?lang=eng About the hymn: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/sacred-music-gospel-study-resource-pilot/1210-long-ago-within-a-garden?lang=eng Elder Gérald Caussé: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8Lvr2sFzDE Daniel’s YouTube on “Psalms from the Ruins: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnLqw5DBApQ&list=RDbnLqw5DBApQ&start_radio=1 Daniel's bio page: https://www.danielcartermusic.com/bio Daniel’s earlier podcast (episode 299): https://soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-299-daniel-carter-lds-composer-and-music-department-employee-same-sex-marriage Devan’s inspiration for the hymn: https://devanjensen.blogspot.com/2016/02/long-ago-within-garden.html Devan’s earlier podcast (episode 446): https://soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-446-devan-jensen-latter-day-saint-media-and-publishing-association Devan’s upcoming Latter-day Saints in Publishing, Media and the Arts conference (Oct 15-17, 2026): https://ldspma.org/2026-ldspma-conference/ (use discount LISTENLEARNLOVE26 for a 20% discount)


    Episode 882: Jeff Strong, New Book “Torn: Why People We Love Are Leaving the Church and What We Can Learn From Them” Apr 24, 2026
    Show notes

    My friend Jeff Strong (married father of five, grandfather, former mission president, retired senior executive consumer goods) join us to talk about his new book. Jeff introduces his book with the story of his son Cale leaving the MTC and then leaving the Church—and Jeff’s desire to better understand. Jeff’s book (with a forward from Steve Young) focuses on: Conducting the largest LDS focused study on disaffiliation (20,000 respondents + interviews) About 40% of those that were active in 2000 have left the church 25 years later The “four patterns” that emerge from the data—super insightful Importance of culture—needs to nourish and create belonging—and how we can do better “It isn’t about lower standards; it’s about more love” Framing of the tension—four areas Powerful story of reconciliation with his son Cale Jeff’s book is so needed in our community—bringing the data forward and then framing it a way that gives us tools and insights to do better. I encourage everyone to read and share this book—and consider what we can do better to create the culture/belonging that Jeff’s talks about in his book. Thank you Jeff for writing this book and being on the podcast. You are making a huge difference for good in our community. Links: Jeff’s website: www.tornbyjeffstrong.com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61588509745251 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tornbyjeffstrong/ Steve Young’s Root talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpMJkBbTqB0


    Episode 881: Duane Jennings, Longtime LGBTQ Advocate, Author Apr 22, 2026
    Show notes

    My friend Duane Jennings (gay, same-sex marriage, mid-60’s, RM from South Africa, Affirmation Leader for 15+ years, author “Stumbling Blocks and Stepping-Stones”) joins us to share his story including: · Journey to understand and accept his sexuality · Serving a mission · Anger and asking God about his sexuality “Told it is OK” · Got involved in Affirmation “Help people spiritually heal” · Been with his husband for 20+ years. · Friends most of the “September Six”—Lavina Fiending Anderson (died in Oct 2023) edited his book · “Stumbling Blocks and Stepping-Stones” Vol 1 and Vol 2 maybe the most comprehensive analysis of all things LDS/LGBTQ through 2016 · How to get a copy of Duane’s book Thank you Duane for being on the podcast and especially for all your work over a few decades to bring more understanding and support for our LGBTQ friends. You’ve made a huge difference for good. Honored to have you on the podcast. You are a good man. Links: Duane’s e-mail: UtahSoulforce@aol.com. Duane’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/duane.jennings.2016 Duane’s Book Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/LatterdaySteppingStones/


    Episode 880: Eli McCann, New Book “We’re Thankful for the Moisture” Apr 20, 2026
    Show notes

    My friend Eli McCann (lawyer, University of Utah Law School adjunct professor, Equality Utah and The Road Home board member, married to husband Skylar, father) joins us to talk about his new book published called “We’ve Thankful for the Moisture, A Gay Guy's Guide to Mormon Faith, Family and Fruit Preservation” Thank you Eli for being on the podcast and sharing about your new book—which is a reflective book—along with some humor—on our unique Mormon culture. I encourage everyone to listen to Eli’s podcast and check out his book. Thank you to our friends at The Salt Lake Tribune and Signature Books for making this book possible. Thank you Eli for all your good work in our community to build bridges and help others. Your work brings a smile to my face. You are a beautiful family. Links: Eli’s Book at Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Were-Thankful-Moisture-Mormon-Preservation/dp/B0GLSLKYRM


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