Learning How to See with Brian McLaren

Latest Episodes:

Genesis 29-31 — Waiting for the Dream to Die Oct 29, 2026

Show notes

Today our hosts reflect on the story of Jacob — a trickster who gets tricked, and whose dreams are deferred. They also discuss Randy and Edith Woodleys’ decades-long work to build Eloheh Indigenous Center for Earth Justice. Randy and Edith elaborate on why “we’re still here” matters for Indigenous people today and illuminate a vision of shared, interconnected, well-being.

Resources:

Find the transcript for today's episode here.
Learn more about ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠the Woodleys and Eloheh here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.
Pick up a copy of Randy’s new book, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠How Western Christianity Got It Wrong.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Journey to Eloheh⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠by Randy and Edith Woodley explores how Indigenous values lead us to harmony and well-being.
Discover more about composer April Stace ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Connect with us:

Have a question you’d like Brian, Randy, or Edith to answer about this season?

Email us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠podcasts@cac.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Genesis 37-50 — The Pit and The Feast Oct 22, 2026

Show notes

Today's episode features an audio essay from Edith Woodley on the Biblical story of Joseph, which she first knew as a child in its tidy, happily-ever-after form. Brian McLaren and Randy Woodley respond, tracing how favoritism, from Jacob’s family to colonial rule in Rwanda and Burundi, can create cycles of intergenerational trauma.

What changes when we read these ancestral stories as the stories of real, wounded people rather than as tidy morals? Tune in to consider what it means to find God in the messiness of life.

Resources:

Find the transcript for today's episode here.
Learn more about ⁠⁠⁠⁠the Woodleys and Eloheh here⁠⁠⁠⁠.
Pick up a copy of Randy’s new book, ⁠⁠⁠⁠How Western Christianity Got It Wrong.⁠⁠⁠⁠
⁠⁠⁠⁠Journey to Eloheh⁠⁠⁠⁠by Randy and Edith Woodley explores how Indigenous values lead us to harmony and well-being.
Discover more about composer April Stace ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here.⁠⁠⁠⁠

Connect with us:

Have a question you’d like Brian, Randy, or Edith to answer about this season?

Email us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠podcasts@cac.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Genesis 12, Joshua 1 — Two Continents, Two Covenants Oct 15, 2026

Show notes

In today's episode, we look at the Genesis 12 story of Abram, in contrast to that of Joshua. Hosts Brian McLaren, Randy Woodley, and Edith Woodley explore how Abram, as an immigrant, respects the customs and values of those around him, versus Joshua's conquering narrative. The three reflect on how the Bible can be used to justify harm, or harmony, focusing on the way in which Westerners coming to the United States wielded Joshua's approach as a weapon against Native Peoples.

The episode also asks us to consider how our lens on Biblical narratives leads us to The Harmony Way, or to greater separation from each other and the land.

Resources:

Find the transcript for today's episode here.⁠
Learn more about ⁠⁠⁠the Woodleys and Eloheh here⁠⁠⁠.
Pick up a copy of Randy’s new book, ⁠⁠⁠How Western Christianity Got It Wrong.⁠⁠⁠
⁠⁠⁠Journey to Eloheh⁠⁠⁠by Randy and Edith Woodley explores how Indigenous values lead us to harmony and well-being.
Discover more about composer April Stace ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here.⁠⁠⁠

Connect with us:

Have a question you’d like Brian, Randy, or Edith to answer about this season?

Email us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠podcasts@cac.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Genesis 12 — When God Got It Right Oct 08, 2026

Show notes

In today's episode, we look at the Genesis 12 story of Abram’s call. Hosts Brian McLaren, Randy Woodley, and Edith Woodley explore what it means to be “blessed to be a blessing,” how generosity and hospitality can shape our identities, and how a strong sense of identity can become a gift to others rather than a reason for exclusion or domination.

The episode also asks us to consider our own character arcs. Where are we being invited to grow? What would it mean to understand what we have as something meant not only for ourselves, but for the benefit of others?

Resources:

Find the transcript for today's episode here.
Learn more about ⁠⁠the Woodleys and Eloheh here⁠⁠.
Pick up a copy of Randy’s new book, ⁠⁠How Western Christianity Got It Wrong.⁠⁠
⁠⁠Journey to Eloheh⁠⁠by Randy and Edith Woodley explores how Indigenous values lead us to harmony and well-being.
Discover more about composer April Stace ⁠⁠⁠⁠here.⁠⁠

Connect with us:

Have a question you’d like Brian, Randy, or Edith to answer about this season?

Email us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠podcasts@cac.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Genesis 11: 1-9 — Scattered on Purpose Oct 01, 2026

Show notes

In today's episode, we explore the story of the Tower of Babel and turn the usual reading of it upside down. Diverse languages, in this telling, are not the curse — the tower is.

In this conversation, Brian McLaren, Randy Woodley, and Edith Woodley talk about the cost of enforced sameness — from Native American boarding schools to the quiet pressure many people feel to hide what makes them different. What does it mean for the church to keep trying to finish a tower that the Creator never wanted rebuilt?

Resources:

Find the transcript for today's episode here.
Learn more about ⁠the Woodleys and Eloheh here⁠.
Pick up a copy of Randy’s new book, ⁠How Western Christianity Got It Wrong.⁠
⁠Journey to Eloheh⁠by Randy and Edith Woodley explores how Indigenous values lead us to harmony and well-being.
Discover more about composer April Stace ⁠⁠⁠here.⁠

Connect with us:

Have a question you’d like Brian, Randy, or Edith to answer about this season?

Email us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠podcasts@cac.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Genesis 6-9 — What The Flood Could Not Get Sep 24, 2026

Show notes

Thank you for joining us for today's episode of Learning How to See, hosted by Brian McLaren, with guest hosts Rev. Dr. Randy Woodley and Edith Woodley.

Today, Edith reads the Biblical flood story from Genesis 6–9. She then connects this flood story to the U.S. government’s Native American boarding school system — including her own family’s history at the Carlisle Indian Industrial School.

Our hosts invite us to consider: what does it mean to survive a flood that was “meant to cover everything” — and didn’t?

Resources:

Find the transcript for today's episode here.
Learn more about the Woodleys and Eloheh here.
Pick up a copy of Randy’s new book, How Western Christianity Got It Wrong.
Journey to Elohehby Randy and Edith Woodley explores how Indigenous values lead us to harmony and well-being.
Discover more about composer April Stace ⁠⁠here.

Connect with us:

Have a question you’d like Brian, Randy, or Edith to answer about this season?

Email us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠podcasts@cac.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠⁠⁠⁠

Genesis 4 — Am I My Brother's Murderer Sep 17, 2026

Show notes

In today's episode, our hosts Brian McLaren, Randy Woodley, and Edith Woodley explore the story of Cain and Abel through a lens of Indigenous wisdom, considering the origins of human violence and the contrast between “earth people” and “empire people.” Together they reflect on harmony, balance, and the Biblical call to be our “brother’s keeper.”

Listen in as our hosts unpack Genesis 4 alongside a Cherokee story of the terrapin and the wolves, consider how violence and domination shape human communities — and how choosing nonviolence and reciprocity can help us find another way.

Resources:

Find the transcript for today's episode here.
Learn more about the Woodleys and Eloheh here.
Pick up a copy of Randy’s new book, How Western Christianity Got It Wrong.
Journey to Elohehby Randy and Edith Woodley explores how Indigenous values lead us to harmony and well-being.
Discover more about composer April Stace ⁠here.

Connect with us:

Have a question you’d like Brian, Randy, or Edith to answer about this season?

Email us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠podcasts@cac.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
Email us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠podcasts@cac.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Genesis 1 — The Good Earth Sep 10, 2026

Show notes

Welcome to the 10th season of Learning How to See hosted by Brian McLaren and guest hosts Rev. Dr. Randy Woodley and Edith Woodley. In today's episode, our hosts examine Genesis 1 through the lens of Indigenous wisdom, contrasting “earth people” with “empire people.” “Earth people” understand themselves as part of an interconnected web of life and practice caring for the land. “Empire people,” instead, emphasize domination and control.

Join us at our Bible study, as Brian, Edith, and Randy unpack Genesis 1, and invite us to consider how we hear and interpret the Bible.

Find the transcript for this episode here.

Resources:

Learn more about the Woodleys and Eloheh here.
Pick up a copy of Randy’s new book, How Western Christianity Got It Wrong.
Journey to Elohehby Randy and Edith Woodley explores how Indigenous values lead us to harmony and well-being.
Discover more about composer April Stace here.

Connect with us:

Have a question you’d like Brian, Randy, or Edith to answer about this season?

Email us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠podcasts@cac.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠⁠⁠⁠

Coming Soon: Learning How to See The Bible Aug 27, 2026

Show notes

Season Ten begins September 10th!

This season on Learning How to See, host Brian McLaren and co-hosts Randy and Edith Woodley will focus on experiencing the Biblical text with a heart of seeking and curiosity. Brief readings from the book of Genesis will be followed by essays or stories with themes similar to that of the Biblical passages. The episodes will conclude with round-table conversations about the ways we see and experience stories differently. For faith reclaimers eager to help heal a hurting world, reimagine Christianity as a path of compassion, justice, and care for creation on Learning How to See: The Bible. Join us in exploring the book of Genesis through fresh perspectives rooted in wonder, wisdom, and lived experience.

Bonus: Listener Questions Jan 15, 2026

Show notes

Today Brian and Carmen address your questions including a deeper dive into Carmen's translation of Corinthians 13, what we mean when talk about love, and tips for knowing when to leave.

Resources:

Find the transcript for this episode here.

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