Learning How to See with Brian McLaren

Latest Episodes:

Loving As Hosts, Not Heroes with Becca Stevens Nov 20, 2025

Show notes

How can we open ourselves to being hosts in the world?

On this episode of Learning How To See, we hear from social entrepreneur Becca Stevens, founder of Thistle Farms, a nonprofit which provides sanctuary, employment, and hope for women survivors of trafficking, exploitation, and addiction. Becca invites us to see holiness in unlikely places — just like the thistle growing through cracks in the pavement.

In the ninth season of Learning How To See, we continue to learn how to see through the eyes of love. Our hosts Brian McLaren and Carmen Acevedo Butcher reflect on what it means to stay present when love feels complicated.

Resources:

Find out more about Becca here.
Find out more about Thistle Farms here.
Pick up a copy of Becca's book, Snake Oil, here.
Find the transcript of this episode here.

Connect with us:

Have a question you’d like Brian or Carmen to answer about this season

Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠⁠⁠
Email us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠podcasts@cac.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Seeing Ourselves with Eyes of Love with Kaitlin Curtice Nov 13, 2025

Show notes

It can feel easy to offer compassion to others. But, why is it so hard to extend that same tenderness to ourselves?

In Season 9 of Learning How To See, we continue to learn how to see through the eyes of love. On this season premiere, author and storyteller Kaitlin Curtice joins our hosts Brian McLaren and Carmen Acevedo Butcher to explore Indigenous wisdom, the Potawatomi language, and daily rituals of gratitude.

Resources:

Learn more about Kaitlin Curtice here.
Pick up a copy of Kaitlin's latest book, Everything is a Story, here.
Join Kaitlin's Substack, The Liminality Journal, here.
The transcript for this episode can be found here.

Connect with us:

Have a question you’d like Brian or Carmen to answer about this season?
Email us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠podcasts@cac.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠⁠⁠

Coming Soon: Learning How to See Through Eyes of Love Oct 30, 2025

Show notes

On our ninth season of Learning How to See, Brian McLaren and guest co-host, Carmen Acevedo Butcher, continue to explore seeing through eyes of love. Through openhearted conversation, podcast guests share experiences in which their lens of love became more finely tuned. We also share embodied practices to help you expand your own capacity to see and act through love, especially during uncertain and turbulent times.

Bonus: Listener Questions Jun 26, 2025

Show notes

What if love could guide you through anger, injustice, and even the darkest memories?

In this episode, Brian McLaren and co-host Carmen Acevedo Butcher reflect on how love, honesty, and contemplative practice can transform even deep wounds. They also respond to a listener’s question: how do we love those who cause harm—especially in politics? Brian and Carmen explore the tension between righteous anger and loving action, offering spiritual insights, personal stories, and practices that help us see with the eyes of love.

Resources:

Find the poem by Nikolai Velimirovich here
Find the poem by Walter Brueggemann here

Seeing with the Help of a Soul-Optometrist with Sr. Simone Campbell Jun 12, 2025

Show notes

What would change if you could see with eyes of love—even in the face of cruelty, fear, and disagreement?

In this episode, Brian McLaren and co-host Carmen Acevedo Butcher sit down with renowned spiritual leader, legal advocate, and activist Sister Simone Campbell for a deeply honest conversation about love, justice, and compassion. They explore how contemplative practice grounds fierce activism, why listening is an act of love, and what it means to see even your political opponents with empathy. From her role in passing the Affordable Care Act to launching the "Nuns on the Bus" movement, Sister Simone shares moving stories of courage, community, and the Spirit’s surprising guidance—inviting us all into a new way of seeing and being.

Resources:

You can find a transcript for this episode here.

Find Sr Simone Campbell's book Hunger for Hope here.

Seeing Nonviolently with Rev. John Dear Jun 05, 2025

Show notes

What would change if you believed that active, creative non-violence was the deepest expression of love?

In this episode, Brian McLaren and co-host Carmen Acevedo Butcher welcome legendary peace activist, Catholic priest, and author Fr. John Dear for an unflinching conversation about the cost—and the healing power—of universal non-violence. Together they explore how language shapes our discipleship, what it feels like to be seen with unconditional love, and why “live and stop the killing” may be the clearest way to describe love in action.

Resources:

Find out more about Fr. John Dear here.
Find out more The Beatitudes Center for the Nonviolent Jesus: here.
The transcript for this episode can be found here.

Connect with us:

Have a question you'd like Brian or Carmen to answer about this season?
Email us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠podcasts@cac.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠⁠⁠

Seeing (and Dancing) in the Dark with Rev. Otis Moss III May 29, 2025

Show notes

How might your life change if you paused more often to unlearn what fear has taught you?

In this episode, hosts Brian McLaren and Carmen Acevedo Butcher are joined by Rev. Dr. Otis Moss III. Together, they explore what it means to live with vision in times of struggle—when the path is unclear, but the call to truth and love remains strong. Drawing from his book Dancing in the Darkness, Dr. Moss reflects on the experience of being Black and faithful in America, and how reclaiming the radical tradition of love—rooted in justice and courage—can liberate both the oppressed and the oppressor.

Connect with us:

Have a question you'd like Brian or Carmen to answer about this season?
Email us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠podcasts@cac.org⁠⁠⁠⁠
Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠⁠⁠

Resources:

The transcript for this episode can be ⁠found here⁠.

Seeing (and Loving) the Divine in The Everyday with Carrie Newcomer May 22, 2025

Show notes

How do ordinary moments become portals to the sacred?

On this episode of Learning How to See, Carrie Newcomer joins Brian and Carmen for a conversation-and-concert that explores “short-form empathy,” the contemplative power of music, and the everyday practice of seeing, and being seen, through eyes of love. Along the way Carrie performs two beloved songs, sharing the stories that shaped them, and Carmen invites listeners into a simple chant that can travel with us on morning walks or difficult days.

Connect with us:

Have a question you'd like Brian or Carmen to answer about this season?
Email us: ⁠⁠⁠podcasts@cac.org⁠⁠⁠
Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠⁠

Resources:

The transcript for this episode can be found here.
Listen to the song Start With a Stone inspired by CAC’s Daily Meditations and co-written with the legendary John McCutcheon ⁠here⁠
Find the song I Do Not Know It's Name here
Find the song It's Always Love here

To learn more about Carrie Newcomer and her work, check out her website here.
To learn more about Carmen Acevedo Butcher, check our her website here.
To learn more about Brian McLaren, check out his website here.

Seeing the Humanity of Everyone (No Exceptions) with Fr. Rafael Garcia May 15, 2025

Show notes

What happens to your own humanity when you choose to truly see the humanity in others?

In this episode, Jesuit priest Father Rafael Garcia joins Brian McLaren and Carmen Acevedo Butcher to explore what it means to see through eyes of love—especially in a world that often teaches us to view immigrants, the incarcerated, and the marginalized with fear or indifference. Drawing from his work at the U.S.–Mexico border, his Cuban refugee roots, and stories of deep pastoral presence, Father Rafael shares how radical hospitality transforms both giver and receiver. Carmen reflects on her own awakening to shared humanity while serving in a women’s prison, paralleling Rafael’s shift from architectural comfort to spiritual solidarity. Together, they illuminate how true vision—grounded in Jesuit and Franciscan compassion—invites us not into pity, but into kinship and mutual transformation.

Connect with us:

Have a question you'd like Brian or Carmen to answer about this season?
Email us: ⁠⁠⁠podcasts@cac.org⁠⁠⁠
Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠⁠

Resources:

The transcript for this episode can be found here.

Seeing Grace-fully with Rev. Nadia Bolz Weber May 08, 2025

Show notes

What would change if you believed that grace was at the center of your life?

In this episode, Brian and Carmen are joined by longtime friend and public theologian Nadia Bolz-Weber for a conversation about the radical, healing power of grace—and how it reshapes our vision of ourselves, others, and the divine.

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