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Law and Chaos — Government
Law and Chaos

Ignorance of the law is no excuse! That’s true for a traffic stop, and it’s true if you want to participate in whatever’s left of American democracy. If the events since the 2016 election taught us anything, it’s that tuning out is not an option. Legal journalists Liz Dye and Andrew Torrez break down the week’s most important courtroom stories, so you can keep on top of this crazy news cycle. Whether it’s Texas giving two middle fingers to the Supreme Court, or Donald Trump in all the courts at once, we’ve got you covered.

Copyright: © 2026

Latest Episodes:

Ep 86 — For The Low, Low Price of $525, Matt Gaetz Will Send YOU a Special Message Nov 26, 2024

Show notes

Today, we learned that Special Counsel Jack Smith has moved to dismiss both of the federal cases against Donald Trump; we tell you what that means and what happens next. On the plus side, we learned that the Onion is almost certainly going to get to buy Infowars AND the next Attorney General of the United States won't be Matt Gaetz. Although it probably will be Pam Bondi. Oh, and the Supreme Court just took up a case on a 100-year-old doctrine as to whether the government can help rural and underserved areas get phone and internet coverage.

Links:

Pam Bondi: Less Terrible Than Matt Gaetz

https://www.lawandchaospod.com/p/pam-bondi-is-less-terrible-than-matt

No, Elon Musk Isn't Riding To Alex Jones's Rescue

https://www.lawandchaospod.com/p/no-elon-musk-isnt-riding-to-alex/comments

SCOTUS Order in FCC v. Consumers Research

https://www.supremecourt.gov/orders/courtorders/112224zr1_7l48.pdf

5th Circuit opinion in FCC v. Consumers Research

https://casetext.com/case/consumers-research-v-fed-commcns-commn-4

Show Links:

https://www.lawandchaospod.com/

BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod

Threads: @LawAndChaosPod

Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod

Patreon: patreon.com/LawAndChaosPod

Ep 85 — Can Elon and Vivek Really Burn Down the Federal Government? (feat. Kel McClanahan) Nov 22, 2024

Show notes

Kel McClanahan joins us for part two of the interview, where he tells us how to keep tabs on Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy as they gear up to do for the federal government what Elon did for Twitter. Meanwhile, Donald Trump is not going to jail, Alex Jones continues to be a ghoul, and Rudy Giuliani has found another lawyer to help him humiliate himself in federal court.

Links:

Rudy Giuliani Can't Go On Trial, He Has An Inauguration To Attend!

https://www.lawandchaospod.com/p/rudy-giuliani-cant-go-on-trial-he

Roake v. Brumley 5th Circuit denial of stay

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.ca5.221848/gov.uscourts.ca5.221848.68.2.pdf

Federal Advisory Committee Act (FACA), 5 U.S.C. Chapter 10 et seq.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/5/part-I/chapter-10

Kel McClanahan, President Trump's Cronyism and Excesses Should Prompt Security Clearance Reform

https://www.justsecurity.org/63108/president-trumps-cronyism-excesses-prompt-security-clearance-reform/

Kel McClanahan, The Case for Legislative Security Clearance Reform

https://www.justsecurity.org/60440/case-legislative-security-clearance-reform/

Kel McClanahan, What Everyone Gets Wrong About Kushner's Clearance Fiasco

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/03/01/jared-kushner-clearance-fiasco-217210/

Support and donate to:

www.nationalsecuritylaw.org

Show Links:

https://www.lawandchaospod.com/

BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod

Threads: @LawAndChaosPod

Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod

Patreon: patreon.com/LawAndChaosPod

Ep 84 — The Infowars/Onion Deal Gets Peeled (feat. Kel McClanahan) Nov 19, 2024

Show notes

Goblinlover Alex Jones is threatening to jail Ben Collins, CEO of the Onion for trying to buy InfoWars. Meanwhile, the bankruptcy trustee is threatening to seek sanctions against Alex Jones's lawyers for making frivolous arguments and telling half-truths. What's next for the efforts to find some measure of justice for the Sandy Hook families? Plus, Donald Trump seems poised to hand over the nation's national security secrets to a bunch of goons who couldn't get cleared for a job as a mall cop. Can he do that? We welcome back Kel McClanahan of National Security Counselors to answer all of our security clearance-related questions.

Links:

Alex Jones Bankruptcy docket (SDTX)

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.txsb.459750/

Support and donate to:

www.nationalsecuritylaw.org

Show Links:

https://www.lawandchaospod.com/

BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod

Threads: @LawAndChaosPod

Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod

Patreon: patreon.com/LawAndChaosPod

Ep 83 — The Worst Person You Know … Is Getting Eaten By The Onion Nov 15, 2024

Show notes

The Onion is buying Infowars! Unless a bankruptcy judge puts the kibosh on the sale. And Rudy Giuliani's lawyers are pulling the ripcord in the Freeman/Moss case. Also … Attorney General Matt Gaetz? WTF?!?!

Links:

Onion Press Release

https://theonion.com/heres-why-i-decided-to-buy-infowars/

Alex Jones Bankruptcy docket

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/66583024/alexander-e-jones/

Giuliani - Caruso Declaration - lawyers withdrawing

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.626017/gov.uscourts.nysd.626017.110.0.pdf

New York Rules of Professional Conduct

https://nysba.org/app/uploads/2024/02/20240226-Rules-of-Professional-Conduct-as-amended-6.10.2022.pdf

Matt Gaetz ethics report

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/13/us/politics/matt-gaetz-ethics-committee-report.html

Show Links:

https://www.lawandchaospod.com/

BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod

Threads: @LawAndChaosPod

Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod

Patreon: patreon.com/LawAndChaosPod

Ep 82 — Trump Won The Presidency. He's Seizing Congress By Fiat. Nov 12, 2024

Show notes

A week after the election, Trump is already demanding that Congress bend the knee and allow him to staff his administration without bothering to get Senate confirmation. Can he do that? And will the new Senate majority leader let him?

Links:

Musk's X seeks to steer lawsuits to conservative court in Texas

https://www.reuters.com/legal/musks-x-seeks-steer-lawsuits-conservative-court-texas-2024-10-17/

Federalist No. 67 (Hamilton)

https://teachingamericanhistory.org/document/federalist-no-67/

Noel Canning v. NLRB

https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=67923386243166640

Show Links:

https://www.lawandchaospod.com/

BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod

Threads: @LawAndChaosPod

Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod

Patreon: patreon.com/LawAndChaosPod

Ep 81 — What Now? Nov 08, 2024

Show notes

Well, it happened. We talk about what the election of Donald Trump means for you, for the country, for this show, and for the efforts to hold Trump accountable for his crimes against the American people. Special Counsel Jack Smith has announced that he intends to "wrap up" his office; we tell you why and what that means. We'll be here with you, and we'll always tell you the truth.

Links:

NPR report: Smith To Wind Down

https://www.npr.org/2024/11/06/g-s1-33021/trump-trials-jack-smith-election-2024

28 CFR Part 600 (Special Counsel regulations)

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/part-600

Trump v. US (2024)

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/pdf/23-939.pdf

24 Op. OLC 222 (2000) - Presidential immunity

https://www.justice.gov/file/146241-0/dl?inline

Show Links:

https://www.lawandchaospod.com/

BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod

Threads: @LawAndChaosPod

Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod

Patreon: patreon.com/LawAndChaosPod

Ep 80 — How To Watch The Election Hour By Hour Nov 05, 2024

Show notes

Joe Dye is back to talk us through how to watch the election returns. How similar are Wisconsin and Iowa? When will we know the results out of Georgia? And what's up with that Selzer poll? Andrew and Joe break it all down.

Show Links:

https://www.lawandchaospod.com/

BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod

Threads: @LawAndChaosPod

Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod

Patreon: patreon.com/LawAndChaosPod

Ep 79 — Pennsylvania Gets A Jump On Election Litigation Nov 01, 2024

Show notes

Election litigation is well underway in Pennsylvania, even before election day. The Trump campaign has already racked up a win, since they decided that early voting is … good now? Meanwhile Elon Musk is dodging a civil action by Philadelphia's DA over his million dollar "lottery," and Trump filed an absolutely gonzo trollsuit in Texas against CBS.

Links:

Workers Say They Were Tricked and Threatened as Part of Elon Musk's Get-Out-the-Vote Effort

https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-america-pac-blitz-canvassing-michigan-uhaul/

Lancaster County officials should deliver real answers on voter registration issues — not shut down questions [editorial]

https://lancasteronline.com/opinion/editorials/lancaster-county-officials-should-deliver-real-answers-on-voter-registration-issues-not-shut-down-questions/article_6f9b8ae8-9640-11ef-8723-dfe8afbc7b37.html

Fed. R. Crim. Pro. 48

https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcrmp/rule_48

Baxter v. Philadelphia Board of Elections (Pa. App. Oct. 30, 2024)

https://www.pacourts.us/assets/opinions/Commonwealth/out/1305CD24_10-30-24.pdf?cb=1

Trump v. CBS Texas Consumer Protection Law Complaint

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.txnd.396451/gov.uscourts.txnd.396451.1.0.pdf

Krasner v. Attorney General

https://casetext.com/case/commonwealth-v-the-attorney-gen-1

Show Links:

https://www.lawandchaospod.com/

BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod

Threads: @LawAndChaosPod

Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod

Patreon: patreon.com/LawAndChaosPod

Ep 78 — The Independent State Legislature Theory Is Back Bigly Oct 29, 2024

Show notes

Republicans have discovered ONE WEIRD TRICK to win elections, and it is for the legislatures to steal all the electoral votes. Or if that can't be arranged, they'd accept an intervention from SCOTUS. We'll discuss the independent state legislature theory, as well as Trump's latest filing in the stolen documents appeal.

Links:

Musk Petition

https://petition.theamericapac.org/

Pennsylvania v. America PAC complaint

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25255630-philly-v-musk

Pennsylvania SCT appeal (Genser v. Butler County)

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/25255962/scotus-24a408-stay-application-pa.pdf

5th Circuit provisional ballots case (RNC v. Wetzel)

https://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/opinions/pub/24/24-60395-CV0.pdf

US v. Trump (11th Circuit appeal) docket

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/68955302/united-states-v-donald-trump/

US v. Trump (SDFL documents case) docket

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67643393/united-states-v-trump/

28 CFR § 600.1

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/600.1

Inside the Movement Behind Trump's Election Lies

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/10/28/us/politics/inside-the-movement-behind-trumps-election-lies.html

Show Links:

https://www.lawandchaospod.com/

BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod

Threads: @LawAndChaosPod

Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod

Patreon: patreon.com/LawAndChaosPod

Ep 77 — Bush v. Gore On Steroids Oct 25, 2024

Show notes

What will happen on November 5 if Vice President Harris is narrowly ahead of Trump? Will it look like 2020? Or is it more likely to resemble 2000, with a knock down, drag out fight over every ballot? Liz and Andrew break it down.

Links:

Musk Is Going All In to Elect Trump https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/11/us/politics/elon-musk-donald-trump-pennsylvania.html

Press Release: Benedictine Sisters subject of fraudulent claim https://eriebenedictines.org/news-stories.html/article/2024/10/23/press-release-benedictine-sisters-subject-of-fraudulent-claims

Wand et al., The Butterfly Did It: The Aberrant Vote for Buchanan in Palm Beach County, Florida, American Political Science Review (2001)

https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/faculty-research/publications/butterfly-did-it-aberrant-vote-buchanan-palm-beach-county-florida

Bush v. Gore (Supreme Court 2000)

https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=2298973060085224552

Gore v. Harris (FL Supreme Court 2000)

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/fl-supreme-court/1489353.html

Show Links:

https://www.lawandchaospod.com/

BlueSky: @LawAndChaosPod

Threads: @LawAndChaosPod

Twitter: @LawAndChaosPod

Patreon: patreon.com/LawAndChaosPod

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