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    Business

    Invest Like the Best with Patrick O’Shaughnessy

    Conversations with the best investors and business leaders in the world. We explore their ideas, methods, and stories to help you better invest your time and money. Hear stock market and boardroom insights you can’t find anywhere else. If you’re a professional investor, CEO, entrepreneur, or business strategist, this is for you. Explore all our episodes and learn more at https://www.colossus.com

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    Latest Episodes:
    CoVenture Credit - Esoteric Credit with Ail Hamed, Brian Harwitt, and Marc Porzecanski - [Invest Like the Best, EP.108] Oct 16, 2018
    Show notes

    My guests this week are Ali Hamed, Brian Harwitt and Marc Porzecanski who work together at CoVenture Credit. When I first had Ali on as a podcast guest, we discussed the many aspects of what his firm does, ranging from venture, to crypto, to credit. We glossed over the lending side of the business, but having since learned a lot from them on the topic, I was excited to get the chance to talk with members of their credit team for today’s longer exploration of esoteric high yield lending.

    I am always proselytizing the value of investor education, s this week we have a podcast first. The CoVenture team has prepared a long series of posts that correspond to our conversation and go even deeper into the topic of credit investing. You can find them in the shownotes at investorfieldguide.com/credit

    This is entirely differently from any conversation I’ve shared before, so I hope you learn as much as I did. Please enjoy my discussion with team CoVenture Credit.

    For more episodes go to InvestorFieldGuide.com/podcast.

    Sign up for the book club, where you’ll get a full investor curriculum and then 3-4 suggestions every month at InvestorFieldGuide.com/bookclub.

    Follow Patrick on Twitter at @patrick_oshag

    Show Notes

    1:42 - (First Question) – The formation of their unique credit business

    7:09 – Their advantage in seeing both the equity and credit side of their investments

    10:23 – Looking at the Returnly deal as an example

    14:07 – How they view these deals and are able to sustain them as long-term investments

    18:09 – Their interest in payroll deduction lending

    20:08 – Finding unique types of default risk

    21:31 – What stands out in a platform that makes CoVenture want to take a deeper look

    26:43 – Most interesting types of problem they have come across that they have yet to do a deal in

    31:35 – What is going to change to make for more thoughtful underwriting of subprime lending

    35:51 – Major structures of asset backed lending

    39:49 – Whether the home serves as an interesting playground for credit opportunities and whether people will own anything again

    42:44 – Mark’s experience working at a huge firm vs his experience at CoVenture

    44:31 – How does the current credit cycle impact their view

    47:04 – Lending against bitcoin

    50:06 – Who is interested in these loans against bitcoin

    50:57 – How to set interest rates against a weird asset like this

    53:00 – What are the key determents of success in this business

    1:02:27 – Kindest thing anyone has team for the team

    1:03:52 – How to treat people that you pass on

    Learn More

    For more episodes go to InvestorFieldGuide.com/podcast.

    Sign up for the book club, where you’ll get a full investor curriculum and then 3-4 suggestions every month at InvestorFieldGuide.com/bookclub

    Follow Patrick on twitter at @patrick_oshag


    Saifedean Ammous – The Bitcoin Standard - [Invest Like the Best, EP.107] Oct 09, 2018
    Show notes

    My guest this week is Saifedean Ammous, author of the book the Bitcoin Standard. This was one of the more interesting conversations I’ve had in the world of cryptocurrency, primarily because we don’t talk about Bitcoin or Crypto until 25 minutes into the talk. Instead, we focus on history, economics, sound money, low time preference, and gold—all interesting topics.

    Saif’s thinking on cryptocurrencies other than bitcoin—which is that they are worthless—is unique and thought provoking. His reasoning around why gold shouldn’t be compared to the returns generated by assets like equities was also compelling. If you’ve followed my Hash Power episodes, this is a new a differentiated interpretation of Bitcoin as a technology for the store of value use case. Please enjoy our conversation.

    Hash Power is presented by Fidelity Investments

    For more episodes go to InvestorFieldGuide.com/podcast.

    Sign up for the book club, where you’ll get a full investor curriculum and then 3-4 suggestions every month at InvestorFieldGuide.com/bookclub.

    Follow Patrick on Twitter at @patrick_oshag

    Show Notes

    2:10 - (First Question) – Explain Sound Money

    4:25 – Examples of hard vs easy money

    7:36 – the even money trap

    9:36 – The benefits of hard money vs today’s standards

    14:05 – Why this interests him

    14:16 – Gold Wars: The Battle Against Sound Money As Seen From A Swiss Perspective

    14:56 – Democracy – The God That Failed: The Economics and Politics of Monarchy, Democracy and Natural Order

    16:17 – Correlation between time preference and people’s ability to succeed in life

    19:59 – How money markets worked in the late 18th century vs today

    27:57 – How he came across Bitcoin and how he thinks of it as a digital gold

    35:42 – How will the world transition to a sound money standard

    42:15 – The impacts of hyperinflation on crypto currencies

    45:04 – The idea of a orderly upgrade of the world currency

    48:20 – His thinking on alternative coins

    54:05 – What it takes to compete with bitcoin

    1:01:43 – How he diversifies

    1:04:35 – Stalling bitcoins demand

    1:06:11 – Does he apply his thinking of lower time preference elsewhere in his life

    1:07:09 – Kindest thing anyone has done for him

    Learn More

    For more episodes go to InvestorFieldGuide.com/podcast.

    Sign up for the book club, where you’ll get a full investor curriculum and then 3-4 suggestions every month at InvestorFieldGuide.com/bookclub

    Follow Patrick on twitter at @patrick_oshag


    Jeremiah Lowin – Machine Learning in Investing – [Invest Like the Best, EP.105] Sep 25, 2018
    Show notes

    My guest this week is one of my best and oldest friends, Jeremiah Lowin. Jeremiah has had a fascinating career, starting with advanced work in statistics before moving into the risk management field in the hedge fund world. Through his career he has studied data, risk, statistics, and machine learning—the last of which is the topic of our conversation today.

    He has now left the world of finance to found a company called Prefect, which is a framework for building data infrastructure. Prefect was inspired by observing frictions between data scientists and data engineers, and solves these problems with a functional API for defining and executing data workflows. These problems, while wonky, are ones I can relate to working in quantitative investing—and others that suffer from them out there will be nodding their heads. In full and fair disclosure, both me and my family are investors in Jeremiah’s business.

    You won’t have to worry about that potential conflict of interest in today’s conversation, though, because our focus is on the deployment of machine learning technologies in the realm of investing. What I love about talking to Jeremiah is that he is an optimist and a skeptic. He loves working with new statistical learning technologies, but often thinks they are overhyped or entirely unsuited to the tasks they are being used for. We get into some deep detail on how tests are set up, the importance of data, and how the minimization of error is a guiding light in machine learning and perhaps all of human learning, too. Let’s dive in.

    For more episodes go to InvestorFieldGuide.com/podcast.

    Sign up for the book club, where you’ll get a full investor curriculum and then 3-4 suggestions every month at InvestorFieldGuide.com/bookclub.

    Follow Patrick on Twitter at @patrick_oshag

    Show Notes

    2:06 - (First Question) – What do people need to think about when considering using machine learning tools

    3:19 – Types of problems that AI is perfect for

    6:09 – Walking through an actual test and understanding the terminology

    11:52 – Data in training: training set, test set, validation set

    13:55 – The difference between machine learning and classical academic finance modelling

    16:09 – What will the future of investing look like using these technologies

    19:53 – The concept of stationarity

    21:31 – Why you shouldn’t take for granted label formation in tests

    24:12 – Ability for a model to shrug

    26:13 – Hyper parameter tuning

    28:16 – Categories of types of models

    30:49 – Idea of a nearest neighbor or K-Means Algorithm

    34:48 – Trees as the ultimate utility player in this landscape

    38:00 – Features and data sets as the driver of edge in Machine Learning

    40:12 – Key considerations when working through time series

    42:05 – Pitfalls he has seen when folks try to build predictive market investing models

    44:36 – Getting started

    46:29 – Looking back at his career, what are some of the frontier vs settled applications of machine learning he has implemented

    49:49 – Does intereptability matter in all of this

    52:31 – How gradient decent fits into this whole picture

    Learn More

    For more episodes go to InvestorFieldGuide.com/podcast.

    Sign up for the book club, where you’ll get a full investor curriculum and then 3-4 suggestions every month at InvestorFieldGuide.com/bookclub

    Follow Patrick on twitter at @patrick_oshag


    Trail Magic - Lessons from Two Years of the Podcast [Invest Like the Best, EP.104] Sep 18, 2018
    Show notes

    This week, to mark the two-year anniversary of the podcast, I offer a quick summary looking back and forward.


    Kathryn Minshew - How Employers and Employees Should Build Careers - [Invest Like the Best, EP.103] Sep 11, 2018
    Show notes

    My guest this week is Kathryn Minshew, the co-founder and CEO of the Muse, and the co-author of The New Rules for Work: the Modern Playbook for Navigating Your Career. I’ve learned in business is that the quality of people and the culture they create dictate outcomes. Having made plenty of mistakes hiring, and having had many enormous successes, I am always interested in best practices for finding and successfully recruiting the right people.

    Given that Kathryn runs a jobs marketplace and has written a book on the topic, she is the perfect person to explore some the core concepts around pairing people with the right positions. We discuss how companies should market to prospective employees, how employees should represent themselves to employers, and the most common mistakes she sees across the hiring landscape.

    Please enjoy our conversation.

    For more episodes go to InvestorFieldGuide.com/podcast.

    Sign up for the book club, where you’ll get a full investor curriculum and then 3-4 suggestions every month at InvestorFieldGuide.com/bookclub.

    Follow Patrick on Twitter at @patrick_oshag

    Show Notes

    1:31 - (First Question) Largest changes in the nature of work and how people approach finding the right job for them

    3:27 – Can this work be jammed into a formula

    5:18 – What strategies is she sharing with employers when it comes to hiring

    8:31 – How long should the process take

    9:33 – Biggest mistakes employers make in this process

    10:39 – Besides the usual stuff, what can perspective employees do to bolster their chances

    12:50 – How much more efficient will matching technology get in the years to come

    16:00 – What will be the largest changes to work itself

    19:09 – Will we move away from full time work into parsels of work units

    20:50 – Most successful piece of content or content strategy the Muse has employed

    22:34 – Advice for early stage entrepreneurs

    26:24 – Kindest thing anyone has done for Kathryn

    Learn More

    For more episodes go to InvestorFieldGuide.com/podcast.

    Sign up for the book club, where you’ll get a full investor curriculum and then 3-4 suggestions every month at InvestorFieldGuide.com/bookclub

    Follow Patrick on twitter at @patrick_oshag


    Richard Craib - Crowdsourcing Predictive Algorithms - [Invest Like the Best, EP.102] Sep 04, 2018
    Show notes

    I intentionally avoid the world of quantitative investing on this podcast. The whole point of this format is to learn about many different fields, and the vast majority of my time is already spent in quant world. Occasionally I’ve broken this rule because of something unique, including this week’s conversation with Richard Craib, the founder and CEO of Numerai. If you listen to the podcast often you’ll have heard me reference Numerai, a hedge fund which blends quant investing, cryptocurrencies, crowdsourcing, and machine learning — talk about a PR company’s dream. One important note: Numerai is both incredibly open and very secretive. You may sense a bit of frustration on my part, but that is only because, as a fellow quant who loves details about data and modeling, we couldn’t go deeper into the details on the record. We discuss how Numerai has created an incentive structure to work with data scientists around the world in an attempt to build better investing models. The idea of having data scientists stake cryptocurrency in support of the quality of their models is fascinating. Like many hedge funds, Numerai doesn’t share its track record, so we don’t know if this works—but I hope you, like me, use this conversation as inspiration for how different technologies can intersect.

    Hash Power is presented by Fidelity Investments

    Please enjoy my conversation with Richard Craib.

    For more episodes go to InvestorFieldGuide.com/podcast.

    Sign up for the book club, where you’ll get a full investor curriculum and then 3-4 suggestions every month at InvestorFieldGuide.com/bookclub.

    Follow Patrick on Twitter at @patrick_oshag

    Show Notes

    2:32 - (First Question) – How he came up with Numerai and how its related to his background

    4:08 – How he works with and models the data for his system

    5:24 – Describing machine learning as it relates to his work, and specifically linear regression

    7:11 – The important stages in his sequence

    8:46 – How the scale in the number of data scientists they use is different from other areas

    11:30 – Which is the most important aspect of creating alpha; their data, algorithm work, proprietary ensembling of those algorithms.

    14:30 – The idea of staking in blockchain

    17:30 – Does the magnitude of the stake matter in blockchain

    19:10 – Understanding the full incentive structure for both staked and unstaked work

    21:07 – How is the prize pool determined

    22:29 – Philosophy on how to source interesting data

    26:11 – His thoughts on the crowd model and the wisdom of crowds

    27:12 – The size of stakers for Numerai

    27:51 – Interpreting the models and knowing when something is broken

    30:03 – How they think about people not submitting their models

    31:48 – Their model building

    32:39 – Most interesting set of things they are working on to improve the overall process

    35:38 – The Market for "Lemons": Quality Uncertainty and the Market Mechanism

    37:11 – How people can come along with their own data

    39:00 – His thoughts on the quantitative investment community

    40:44 – What else is interesting him in the hedge fund world

    44:03 – Building a marketplace and staving off competition

    46:16 – Kindest thing anyone has done for him

    Learn More

    For more episodes go to InvestorFieldGuide.com/podcast.

    Sign up for the book club, where you’ll get a full investor curriculum and then 3-4 suggestions every month at InvestorFieldGuide.com/bookclub

    Follow Patrick on twitter at @patrick_oshag


    Elad Gil – How to Identify Interesting Markets - [Invest Like the Best, EP.101] Aug 28, 2018
    Show notes

    My guest this week has a fascinating background. He has a PhD in biology but has split his time as both an investor and an operator. As an investor, he’s involved in companies like Airbnb, Coinbase, Instacart, Opendoor, Stripe, Square, and Pinterest—not too shabby. As an operator, he helped both Google and Twitter scale their businesses, in the case of Twitter from 100 employees to 1500 over two years. He’s just written a book about these experiences called the High Growth Handbook.

    Our talk centered on what makes for a good investment and more specifically how Elad identifies an interesting market. Operators and early stage investors will find lots of nuggets in this fun conversation. Please enjoy.

    For more episodes go to InvestorFieldGuide.com/podcast.

    Sign up for the book club, where you’ll get a full investor curriculum and then 3-4 suggestions every month at InvestorFieldGuide.com/bookclub.

    Follow Patrick on Twitter at @patrick_oshag

    Show Notes

    1:31 - (First Question) – Process for evaluating a young business

    2:43 – Andy Rachleff Podcast Episode

    3:09 – Data factors for evaluating a business

    5:08 – Reference checks

    6:42 – Advice for companies that are reliant on product cyclicality

    7:01 – Where to Go After Product-Market Fit: An Interview with Marc Andreessen

    7:31 – High Growth Handbook

    9:30 - Lessons learned from marketing and growing companies

    12:09 – How do you hire the best people to improve your distribution

    13:16 – How does he think about lifetime customer value vs customer acquisition cost

    15:57 – Should companies just focus on the high margin power users

    16:35 – Best ways to organize a company hierarchy

    19:16 – His interest and background in the area of longevity research

    21:52 – Changes he has made in his own life as a result of this longevity research

    22:56 – Most effective use of a CEO’s time

    24:58 – How he evaluates or identifies interesting markets for potential businesses

    28:03 – Any markets that fit his criteria that are underappreciated by investors

    30:02 – Worst practices for businesses

    32:19 – Kindest thing anyone has done for him

    33:20 – What would be the topic of his next book

    34:40 – Biggest lessons he’s learned about markets

    Learn More

    For more episodes go to InvestorFieldGuide.com/podcast.

    Sign up for the book club, where you’ll get a full investor curriculum and then 3-4 suggestions every month at InvestorFieldGuide.com/bookclub

    Follow Patrick on twitter at @patrick_oshag


    What You Learn About Business Deals After: 12,000 Deals Reviewed, 1,500 Deep Dives, 125 Site Visits, and 7 Portfolio Companies with Brent Beshore - [Invest Like the Best, EP.100] Aug 21, 2018
    Show notes

    For the 100th episode, I’ve brought back my good friend Brent Beshore. Brent was the 10th guest on the podcast, after we met because of a mutual interest in capital allocation. I quickly learned that Brent was one of the most unique and thoughtful investors around. He was an entrepreneur from the moment he left school, trying many different things before finding a fit buying smaller business with the intention of owning them forever. What amazes me about Brent is his encyclopedic understanding of business and the nuances of different business models and deal structures. This comes from reps. He and his team have looked at about 12,000 deals over the years, at every kind of business that you could imagine. I’ve been with him when he goes through this process and it’s fun to hear what makes certain businesses stand out from others, which is largely the topic of this conversation. You all know transparency is key for me, so it’s important to know that my family and I are investors in a fund called permanent equity, run by Brent and his firm Adventure.es. To commemorate this milestone episode, I can think of no one better than Brent, because he exemplifies what has made this podcast so fun for me: learning from other people who are willing to share what they themselves have learned through fun, blood, sweat, and tears. Please enjoy our conversation, and thank you so much for coming along on this journey. I can’t tell you how much it means to me.

    For more episodes go to InvestorFieldGuide.com/podcast.

    Sign up for the book club, where you’ll get a full investor curriculum and then 3-4 suggestions every month at InvestorFieldGuide.com/bookclub.

    Follow Patrick on Twitter at @patrick_oshag

    Show Notes

    2:02 - (First Question) – How does he think about optimizing risk in terms of the capital stack when looking at deals

    5:27 – What conditions would they add debt down the road after investing in a company

    6:52 – What business sectors are most intriguing for Morgan to invest in right now

    6:57 – Trent Griffin Podcast

    9:34 – Why no HVAC businesses if it’s such an attractive sector

    13:56 – thoughts on rolling up similar businesses and horizontal scale

    16:04 – Another industry Brent would focus on

    18:02 – Difference between property management in larger cities vs smaller metro areas

    18:51 – What role does profit margin play when Brent is evaluating a business

    22:46 – The appeal of a hyper cyclical business

    22:52 – Brent Beshore Podcast Episode

    27:27 – Favorite counter cyclical business

    28:14 – How they judge assets, tangible vs intangible assets

    33:58 – How does he think about wage inflation when considering the cost of a business

    37:21 – His fascination with pet crematoriums

    38:57 – History of the permanent equity fund and the changes by having a larger pool of capital

    43:48 – Pitching investors on a new structure for the business

    46:14 – How will this business model scale

    Learn More

    For more episodes go to InvestorFieldGuide.com/podcast.

    Sign up for the book club, where you’ll get a full investor curriculum and then 3-4 suggestions every month at InvestorFieldGuide.com/bookclub

    Follow Patrick on twitter at @patrick_oshag


    Boyd and Bronwyn Varty – Track Your Life - [Invest Like the Best, EP.99b] Aug 15, 2018
    Show notes

    Today’s conversation is a continuation of my discussion on applying the lessons of tracking animals in the wild to tracking in your own life. I encourage to listen to that episode first. In this second part, Boyd’s sister Bronwyn joins and offers perspective on business and life. Given that Boyd and Bron grew up in this wild place, their perspective on the world is refreshing and very different. We discuss a wide range of things, But the section on restoration near the end is just phenomenal stuff. Please enjoy part two of my conversation with the Varty family.

    For more episodes go to InvestorFieldGuide.com/podcast.

    Sign up for the book club, where you’ll get a full investor curriculum and then 3-4 suggestions every month at InvestorFieldGuide.com/bookclub.

    Follow Patrick on Twitter at @patrick_oshag

    Show Notes

    1:21 - (First Question) – Concept of shame and the role it plays in the lives of the people that visit

    3:11 – Bron’s take on shame and if this is uniquely male issue

    5:15 – How the Varty’s think about the concept of presence, and time with Nelson Mandela

    13:34 – Selfishness as an impediment to presence

    20:26 – Tending the cup

    20:37 – Life is not a zero-sum game

    23:15 – How they run the reserve as a business

    30:18 – Importance of motivation as a business

    33:55 – Cultivating a culture that makes a business a family

    40:15 – How they help other family businesses

    45:29 – The idea of restoration as a business and legacy

    51:23 -Restoration model in investment

    53:49 – The age of restoration will be born on the age of information

    54:48 – Places that have given Varty’s deep connections (other than Africa)

    1:00:46 – Kindest thing anyone has done for Bron

    Learn More

    For more episodes go to InvestorFieldGuide.com/podcast.

    Sign up for the book club, where you’ll get a full investor curriculum and then 3-4 suggestions every month at InvestorFieldGuide.com/bookclub

    Follow Patrick on twitter at @patrick_oshag


    Boyd Varty – Live Like a Tracker - [Invest Like the Best, EP.99a] Aug 14, 2018
    Show notes

    An interesting question that I think about a lot: how do you balance exploring the new with savoring what you already know and love? Most of the time I prefer to explore, but the best part of this podcast experience for me has been meeting people who become close friends. For episodes 99 and 100, I’m bringing back two of the most popular past guest who are both now dear friends.

    This week’s episode is split into two parts, today and tomorrow. Today’s episode is with Boyd Varty and tomorrow is with both Boyd and his sister Bronwyn. The incredible Varty family hosted me in South Africa, so you’ll hear birds and elephants in the background as we talk.

    This conversation with Boyd is about our shared experience called “track your life” which I couldn’t recommend more highly. We tracked animals on foot for five days, and learned a lot from the environment itself. While we discuss our time together, this is much more about how to live. My original conversation with Boyd had a huge impact on me, and this continues the exploration of Boyd’s idea that we should all be going our own way, in the right way, instead of simply following well trodden paths.

    I hope you enjoy this conversation with Boyd and check back tomorrow for another conversation with the Vartys.

    For more episodes go to InvestorFieldGuide.com/podcast.

    Sign up for the book club, where you’ll get a full investor curriculum and then 3-4 suggestions every month at InvestorFieldGuide.com/bookclub.

    Follow Patrick on Twitter at @patrick_oshag

    Show Notes

    1:55 - (First Question) – Encounter with five wild dogs

    10:19 – The idea of a perfect day on the track

    15:59 – The importance of silence

    19:42 – Why we could all benefit from the power of silence

    21:37 – Side effects of being on the track

    23:49 – Following the smaller paths

    25:20 – How culture can keep us from forging our own path

    29:34 – The stress he puts on the watch at night

    33:34 – The power of going from alert to rest and back again

    35:11 – Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers

    38:25 – Disconnecting from the modern world and reconnecting with your life’s purpose

    41:42 – How much does skill play into finding your life’s calling

    43:23 – Common objections to what they do

    49:58 – Importance of end of day on the track

    52:33 – Silence and feeling of thousands of years of time passing through hallucinogenic

    56:22 – His experience with bees

    Learn More

    For more episodes go to InvestorFieldGuide.com/podcast.

    Sign up for the book club, where you’ll get a full investor curriculum and then 3-4 suggestions every month at InvestorFieldGuide.com/bookclub

    Follow Patrick on twitter at @patrick_oshag


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