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( Canva)In November, voters will be faced with Proposition 1. It’s a citizen initiative that will do two things if passed: it would open up all primaries in Idaho and it would create a new voting system known as ranked choice voting.Last week, we looked at the open primary side of Prop 1, and this week we’ll tackle ranked choice voting, diving into how it works as well as the possible pros and cons.Our panel today:McKay Cunningham, constitutional scholar and graduate professor at the College of IdahoDr. Stephanie Witt, Public Policy, Administration and Political Science Professor with Boise State UniversityLuke Mayville with the Idahoans for Open Primaries CoalitionTrent England, the founder and executive director of Save Our StatesJake Ball, Chairman of Idaho Fair Elections Political Action CommitteeRead the full transcript here: GAUDETTE: More Idaho Matters right now, I'm Gemma Gaudette. In November, voters will be faced with proposition one. It's a citizen's initiative that will do two things. If passed, it would open up all primaries in Idaho, and it would create a new voting system known as ranked choice voting. Now, last week if you joined us, we looked at the open primary side of prop one. This week we're going to tackle ranked choice voting. So here to explain how RVC would work if prop one passes are McKay Cunningham, constitutional scholar and graduate professor at the College of Idaho, as well as Doctor Stephanie Witt in the School of Public Service with Boise State University. I want to welcome both of you to the program.CUNNINGHAM: Hi, Gemma.WITT: Hi, Gemma. Good to be here.GAUDETTE: Really good to have both of you here. So who would like to tackle a very quick definition of what ranked choice voting is?CUNNINGHAM: Yeah. You know the silence. I like how I know.GAUDETTE: I'm kind of like anyone, anyone.CUNNINGHAM: I can give a very general description of it. And then maybe we can get into, like, a hypothetical because Gemma. Yeah. You know, I've been talking about ranked choice voting across Idaho in the past two weeks. Um, and what I found is, like, when you describe it just orally, um, it's a little difficult to get your mind around, but when the audience sees a sample ballot, the light bulbs go off. So I want to just put that as a disclaimer. It's kind of hard to do verbally, but very generally speaking.GAUDETTE: Well, why don't we do this? McKay. Sorry to interrupt you. Why don't we just go then? Right to a, um, a try to do some ranked choice voting on the radio? Because we did send out a sample ballot on Facebook and Instagram, and it came from the Veterans for Veterans for Idaho and, and on this sample ballot. So if you want to if you're listening right now and you have access to social media folks, you can go on and find this sample ballot. But what it is is they have four candidates. They have apple pie, ice cream, berry cobbler and birthday cake. Okay, so my first question then how do I know if apple pie is a Republican or a Democrat?( Veterans for Idaho Voters)CUNNINGHAM: Um, yeah. Well, um, the the candidates can identify as a Republican or a Democrat. Doctor Witt, what do you have on that?WITT: Well, that's a great question. I actually don't don't know the answer for sure. I believe it would be marked next to their name, wouldn't it, on the ballot the same way it is now.GAUDETTE: Just like it normally is right now you have the R or the D okay. So my next. So my next question Doctor Witt can all these candidates, um as I said the apple pie, the blueberry, the the ice cream, the berry cobbler, the birthday cake, can they all be from the same party? Let's say all of the desserts are Republican.WITT: I believe that is the case. If those are the top vote getters in the open primary part that you talked about last week.GAUDETTE: Okay. And so then if oh, go ahead. McKay.CUNNINGHAM: Oh, sorry. Gemma. Yeah, I was just. I was just going to weigh in. So if we if we posit a hypothetical, maybe not with regard to desserts, but with regard to, like, a Senate seat next election, if prop one passes, let's say it's just one seat that six candidates are all vying for. Let's say that four of those candidates are Republican. One identifies as a Democrat and one identifies as an independent. The first thing we do, of course, is we go to the primaries. And you guys have already talked about this on Idaho Matters, but it bears repeating. And that is the primaries don't don't function to just identify one Republican and identify one Democrat for the general election. Instead, an open primary as it's envisioned by prop one, just whittles down the top four vote getters. And that's all it does. So we go to the primary with this hypothetical again, four Republicans, one Democrat, one independent, all vying for the same seat. You go to the primary and it widows down to the four top vote getters. In this hypothetical, let's say that three are Republicans and one is independent. And that's it for the primary. Then we move to the general election. And it's just one vote, like always. It's not like voters have to come in two and three and four times. It's just one vote. And that's when ranked choice voting kicks in. Voters go into the general election and they can vote for their preferred candidate, or they can vote for their preferred candidate and then rank the remaining candidates. So after that, general election occurs instantaneously, that's why it's called an instant runoff. You will know whether or not one of those four candidates received a majority, 50% plus one vote. And if one of those four candidates does, then that's the winner and we're done. Um, but if none of the four candidates receives a majority, but the instant runoff kicks in such that the candidate who received the fewest amount of votes, the fourth placed candidate, that candidate is removed, and every voter who voted for that first place candidate. If they then ranked their second and third preference, then those preferences, or at least their second preference, would be distributed among the remaining three candidates, and that process would continue until you have at least one candidate who has a majority. And that's at least descriptively, how ranked choice voting is is going to work if prop one succeeds.GAUDETTE: So here's my question then. So let's say that you've got these three Republicans, one independent in a Senate race, and go into the general election. I'm at the ballot box and I'm like, you know what? I really only like Republican a and I don't want to. I don't want to rank anybody else. I can do that. Right?WITT: Oh, absolutely. Okay. Yeah. There's no you do not have to rank all of the choices if you don't want to.GAUDETTE: Okay. So then, doctor, let's say I'm like, all right, I'm going to rank them because I like Republican a best. But I like the independent second. And then I like Republican B but I really do not like Republican C but I decide to rank it. If Republicans C you know, gets a certain number of votes. Let let's say, you know, the independent got knocked out. Does that mean that even though I don't like Republican C but I ranked Republican C that that candidate may actually get my vote?WITT: I guess it would in the way that you describe it. And um, it is a little hard to follow live on the radio, but I. Yeah, I think so. Unless I misunderstood what you were giving as an example, if you really don't want someone to get your vote ever under any circumstance, the solution, I think, would be to not include them in your ranking at all.GAUDETTE: So. So vote for your number one if if that is really, truly who you want to get that position.WITT: Yes. But and then, uh, don't don't rank the candidate you just can't stand. Now, I'm sure there's a mathematician out there getting ready to tell me I've just told you wrong, but I think that's the solution.GAUDETTE: Look, I'm no mathematician, so this is difficult for me. Um, so. So, McKay, that's, I think, where sometimes I think this seems to get a little tricky for folks to wrap their brains around is it's not the ranking. Like, I understand the ranking. It's the part about the okay, let like that that bottom vote getter is thrown out. Okay, that makes sense. Then all of a sudden it's like, but we're going to take those votes and we're going to disperse them. How how do you disperse them? Like does candidate does the does the candidate with the the you know who right now maybe had like 38% of the vote. Let's say that's the highest vote getter. Do do they get all those votes that got that that that candidate that was thrown out got I mean, I don't even know if I'm making sense at this point.CUNNINGHAM: Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm following back to our hypothetical. If we have those three Republicans and that one independent candidate all in the general election. In our hypothetical, we suggested that that one independent got the least amount of votes. So that candidate is eliminated. Now we focus on the voters who voted for that independent, that candidate who was eliminated. And we look at those voters to see whether or not they had a second place preference, and if they had a second place preference, um, then those second place preferences are distributed, um, accordingly to that, that voter's preference. So let's just use one, one voter who, who originally voted for the independent. And then they said, well, okay, if my independent, uh, favored candidate doesn't win, the second candidate that I would like would be Republican A and in that instance, the independent lost. And therefore that voter's second choice is then transferred to the Republican that they wanted as their second choice.GAUDETTE: Okay. Before I let the two of you go, what is the best way to get educated about how ranked choice voting might work in Idaho?WITT: Well, both sides have put out a lot of good information. Um, there are also third party, uh, groups that that you can look at. I before I Talk to you this morning I was looking at the Council of State Governments, a nonpartisan group that has some descriptions of how ranked choice voting works in different places there. There are those kinds of links that I can share with you. You can share it out to your audience.GAUDETTE: What we'll do is we'll get those links from you and put them on our website. I want to thank both of you for chatting with us today about this. We've been talking with McKay Cunningham, constitutional scholar and graduate professor at the College of Idaho, as well as Doctor Stephanie Witt in the School of Public Service with Boise State Public University. Boise State University have a lot to say today. Anyway, we've been talking about ranked choice voting. We're going to continue that conversation next. [Music Break] GAUDETTE: Let's continue our discussion about proposition one and ranked choice voting with Luke Mayville with Idahoans for Open Primaries Coalition. This is the group that gathered enough signatures to put prop one on the ballot. Luke, welcome back to the show.MAYVILLE: Thanks for having me. Gemma.GAUDETTE: So why did you want to put ranked choice voting before Idaho voters?MAYVILLE: Well, the core problem that we're taking on with this initiative is that Idaho currently has a closed primary system. The best possible way to counter that and open the primary system back up so that all voters, including unaffiliated voters, really have a voice. The best way to open the primary is to have a top four primary with ranked choice voting. These two reforms, the open primary and ranked choice voting, really fit together hand in glove, and we can talk more about why they go together so nicely.GAUDETTE: So do you believe that ranked choice voting will make Idaho elections more fair?MAYVILLE: Absolutely. Um, currently in our closed primary election system, candidates are winning elections and then making our laws for our state based on just winning support from about 9% of the public. That's not right. People, every citizen in Idaho should really have a voice, and we should have elected officials who are accountable to all of the voters, to the broader public, not just to one small group of about 9% of the voters. Opening up the primary makes our elected officials accountable to the broader community, including all the independents who will now get to vote in the primary. And ranked choice voting really does the same thing, because ranked choice voting guarantees that the winner of the election has broad support from the community.GAUDETTE: So look, some critics of prop one have said that by putting both ranked choice voting and open primaries on the same ballot, it's really created confusion among voters. I don't know if you heard our last segment, I think we got a little bit in the weeds with it. It can. I think it really can be a little bit confusing once you get to that last part of, you know, when you're trying to whittle down who wins that race, but how do you respond to that potential confusion among voters?MAYVILLE: Look, I listened to the last segment and I thought things got a little over complicated there. There's a really simple way to understand this. Imagine you're a voter and you there's four candidates on your ballot. You're voting for governor, say, and and you rank candidates one through four. My first choice, second choice. Third choice. Fourth choice. Um, all that happens when the votes are counted is the very first thing is that the first choices are counted up. If anyone gets a majority, then they're they're declared the winner. If no one gets a majority, the key thing you need to understand is that the last place candidate gets eliminated. If you voted for that candidate as your first choice, your vote now goes to your second choice. That's the that's it. That's the heart of it. So I'm going to repeat that. If you, the last place candidate, gets eliminated from the race, if that was your favorite candidate, your vote now goes to your second choice. That's the whole thing. If you understand that that that's the whole process of how the votes are tallied up. And once a candidate gets up over 50% support, they're declared the winner. And so the heart of it really is making sure that the winner of our elections has broad support from the community. Unlike now where we had we're choosing winners in restricted closed primaries where barely anyone votes. And we're getting leaders who really only represent about 9% of the public.GAUDETTE: Well, we're getting we're and our elections because of this closed primary, is that we are basically being in a state that tends to be, you know, I mean, it's a Republican majority. I mean, we tend to make those decisions in the closed primary. I mean, for example, you can take former Lieutenant Governor Janice McGeachin. She won that her primary to become lieutenant governor with about 28% of the primary vote.MAYVILLE: Yes. So that. So let's walk through that. The former lieutenant governor won the closed primary election with 20, 28% or whatever. That was just of the voters who participated in the closed primary. And that was only about 20% of the total voters. So when you really drill down, it turns out that the lieutenant governor won that election with support from probably something between 5 and 7% of the voters. And then, as you said, Gemma. She then went on to a general election where she's just head to head with a Democratic opponent. And because we are in an ov…
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