Holywell Trust Conversations

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Series 3 - Episode 17 - Jeffrey Donaldson Aug 06, 2021

Show notes

Political legacy of distrust cannot be wished away, says Donaldson

The distrust between Northern Ireland’s political parties remains a legacy of the conflict and cannot be wished away or ignored, says DUP leader Jeffrey Donaldson. He adds that the events of the Bobby Storey funeral and commemorations of dead members of the Provisional IRA mean that the Troubles remain a continuing source of tension between the largest parties. He was speaking in the latest Holywell Trust Forward Together podcast.

Jeffrey argues that not only are the British government’s legacy proposals unacceptable, but that addressing victims’ unresolved trauma and anger in relation to Troubles’ events is essential to make political progress.

He discusses public services reform, indicating the DUP’s support for the Bengoa health care proposals. He believes that a consensus between the main parties on health care reform is possible, even though it will lead to significant changes in the roles of some local hospitals and health facilities through the centralisation of some specialist acute services.

Jeffrey is more cautious in relation to reform of the school system, restating his party’s strong support for grammar schools. He suggests that more support is instead needed for non-selective schools to raise examination and skills outcomes. He indicates support for the sharing of facilities and teaching between schools, rather than educational integration.

While Jeffrey supports the use of citizens’ assemblies, he stresses that their role must be to assist politicians as they make decisions, rather than to replace politicians’ decision-making role.

The Holywell Trust Forward Together podcasts are funded by the Community Relations Council’s Media Grant Scheme.

Disclaimer: This project has received support from the Northern Ireland Community Relations Council which aims to promote a pluralist society characterised by equity, respect for diversity, and recognition of interdependence. The views expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Community Relations Council.

Series 3 - Episode 16 - Michelle O'Neill Jul 30, 2021

Show notes

Legacy is being discussed at length at present, following the British government’s proposals to abandon prosecutions and investigations into Troubles’ events. But there is another toxic legacy – the impact of past events on current political relationships. That aspect of legacy is discussed with Sinn Féin Vice President and Deputy First Minister Michelle O’Neill in the latest Holywell Trust Forward Together podcast.

Michelle argues that political leaders must work hard to build trust, to enable the political system here to work more effectively. But she adds that the challenge of the pandemic has created a situation in which ministers have had to work together and this provides an example and basis for future working relationships.

However, she warns that is impossible to fully separate the legacy of the events of the Troubles from current political relationships. It is therefore necessary to deal properly with past events, with the government and all parties accepting responsibilities they have agreed to. She specifies that it is unacceptable for the British government to walk away from the Stormont House Agreement, which was itself a compromise. Michelle stresses that reconciliation should focus more on the future, than on the past.

Michelle also discusses the need for reform of the health and schooling systems. As a former health minister she remains committed to implementation of the Bengoa report proposals, moving towards a more strategic and effective health service, which is focused on service delivery rather than the buildings in which they are delivered. Michelle also calls for much greater all-island co-operation in healthcare delivery.

The role of citizens’ assemblies in resolving extremely challenging policy disputes in the South related to abortion and same sex marriage provides a way forward for the North as well, believes Michelle. She instances reform of the schooling system in a way that brings pupils together across the traditional divides as a possible application of citizens’ assemblies.

The Holywell Trust Forward Together podcasts are funded by the Community Relations Council’s Media Grant Scheme.

Series 3 - Episode 15 - Colum Eastwood Jul 23, 2021

Show notes

Truth and honesty must be at the heart of how we deal with the legacy of the past and in how politicians in Northern Ireland govern today, says Colum Eastwood, leader of the SDLP and MP for the Foyle constituency. He was speaking in the latest Holywell Trust Forward Together podcast and is the third political leader to be interviewed in the series, discussing how to make progress in Northern Ireland.

Victims have been badly treated, stresses Colum, and they need truth and respect.

But Colum also talks at length about the need to reform our education system. He points out that these reforms need to go beyond integrating our children at schools and replacing the system of academic selection, but also to fundamentally review the curriculum that is taught. He adds that Northern Ireland must become a more highly skilled society in order to strengthen and expand our economy.

Colum warns that our society is divided socially, beyond the religious separation, and government must do much more to tackle poverty, while also achieving reconciliation. The SDLP favours the use of citizens assemblies, with Colum arguing that the population is ahead of the politicians in their social attitudes.

The Holywell Trust Forward Together podcasts are funded by the Community Relations Council’s Media Grant Scheme.

Series 3 - Episode 14 - Naomi Long Jul 16, 2021

Show notes

If we are to make progress in Northern Ireland’s society, we need to reflect carefully on our core values and ensure that these are reflected in the way government works. This is the message put forward by Naomi Long – leader of the Alliance Party and justice minister – in the second of the Holywell Trust’s Forward Together podcast interviews of Northern Ireland’s political leaders.

Among the points stressed by Naomi is that violence is not acceptable as a means of getting what you want. Other core messages are that we must develop strong and positive role models and that the use of children in recent rioting is an example of child abuse.

Naomi is particularly strident in relation to the educational gaps that reflect a child’s social background and family wealth. She points to the deprivation that results from this and flows down through the generations.

The Alliance Party is positive about the potential uses of citizens’ assemblies, which have helped to achieve significant progress in the South and in various other countries. She believes that government in Northern Ireland must work with its own people to co-design services and service delivery.

The Holywell Trust Forward Together podcasts are funded by the Community Relations Council’s Media Grant Scheme.

Series 3 - Episode 13 - Steve Aiken Jul 09, 2021

Show notes

The third series of Holywell Trust’s Forward Together podcasts has heard from experts in a range of areas – including the economy, skills, education, young people’s experience, housing - and also considered best practice elsewhere. As it moves towards a close, it puts the arguments for major change in the governance of Northern Ireland to our political leaders.

In the first of this closing series of podcasts, we spoke to Steve Aiken – who at the time was still leader of the Ulster Unionist Party. (We did not predict his early demise as party leader. Neither did he, judging by the conversation.)

Steve made interesting, if challenging, comments around the political aspects of the legacy of past conflict, and its impact on relationships today. He argues that consideration of the past must be contextualised, but also that the past for many people here resonates into their lives today. We have not succeeded putting the past into the past.

Equally controversially, Steve sees the best approach to health services reform to involve joint action with Great Britain. He also discusses education reform and how best to improve citizen engagement and his approach to citizens’ assemblies.

The Holywell Trust Forward Together podcasts are funded by the Community Relations Council’s Media Grant Scheme.

Series 3 - Episode 12 - Ann Watt Jul 02, 2021

Show notes

Northern Ireland’s economy has a number of weaknesses. At the heart of these is the shortage of skills – higher levels of skills moves an economy up the value chain, leading to improved productivity and greater wealth.

Too many of NI’s school leavers have lower levels of qualifications and skills than are needed for the modern economy. This reduces their prospects for obtaining well paid jobs, while some will become long-term unemployed or economically inactive. NI has the UK’s highest rate of economic inactivity.

A recent report from the Pivotal think-tank considered these challenges and how we should strengthen the education and skills environment for 14 to 19 year olds. Solutions include greater focus on vocational skills, strengthening the careers guidance system and providing strong role models. But at the heart of the difficulties lies the issues around the selective school system, dividing children at a young age between those regarded as potentially academic and those not academic.

There is a related concern around the academic streaming of school pupils. Around a third of school leavers in NI who go on to university do so in GB, not in NI. Most of those do not return. Meanwhile, many businesses here are disadvantaged by the shortage of graduate level skills, whereas many NI graduates go into the public rather than the private sector.

These structural weaknesses have been made worse by cuts to public funding of NI universities over recent years. Admissions are already controlled by the cap of student numbers in NI – a system abolished many years ago in England.

This leaves a system in which large numbers of young adults depart NI for GB – some out of choice, others out of necessity because of shortage of university places. Few students from other places choose to study in NI, so there is little replacement of the lost talent.

Northern Ireland is left with a labour market with significant skills weaknesses, while the social implications are also profound – through lower incomes, as well as families separated because children depart and do not return. Those who are unable to gain well paid work through having too few skills may also be more vulnerable to recruitment from paramilitaries and other organised criminal gangs.

The skills environment is discussed with the chief executive of the Pivotal think tank Ann Watt in the latest Holywell Trust Forward Together podcast.

The Holywell Trust Forward Together podcasts are funded by the Community Relations Council’s Media Grant Scheme.

Series 3 - Episode 11 - John Restakis Jun 25, 2021

Show notes

Social care provision is in crisis across much of the world. How can the quality of care be maintained or improved? How can it be made available to those who need it? And how can social care be carried out in an affordable way without underpaying or exploiting its workers? These questions are being asked in many countries and regions. Italy has come up with its own answer – social co-operatives – and its model is being copied across much of Europe.

The latest Holywell Trust Forward Together podcast interviews John Restakis, who is executive director of Community Evolution Foundation, which describes itself as “a community economic development organisation that partners with cooperatives and community-based enterprises to help communities gain control of their local economies”. He has studied the experience of social co-ops in Italy.

A previous podcast considered the example of the Mondragon Federation in the Basque area of Spain, which is a substantial organisation that contains some very large co-operatives. By contrast, the social co-ops in Italy are much smaller, yet have benefited from the strength of representation by their own federations.

Italy’s social co-ops provide a range of social services, with those who work in the co-operatives and those who benefit from their services being members, providing effective representation of different interests in the management of the organisations. As well as social services, some of the co-ops are focused on labour integration. In these co-ops, people who have become marginalised from the labour market – for example, ex-prisoners and those who have recovered from drug addiction – are reintegrated into the workforce, while being properly paid for their work.

Italy’s social co-ops have gained strength not only from sector representation and lobbying, but also through support from political parties. This has led to tax exemptions, access to special loan facilities and preferential purchasing policies. If the co-ops are wound-up, the value of assets cannot be distributed to members – providing a protection that the benefits of the co-ops cannot be removed as a reward for a small number of people.

Does the experience of social co-ops provide a model that could be adopted in Northern Ireland? John is talking with Paul Gosling, who has written a study on Italy’s social co-ops.

The Holywell Trust Forward Together podcasts are funded by the Community Relations Council’s Media Grant Scheme.

Series 3 - Episode 10 - Paddy Gray Jun 18, 2021

Show notes

For all the focus on integrated education, if communities continue to live separately then little progress will be made towards integrating our society. So developing more areas of shared housing is essential if we are to make progress.

But the lack of genuinely shared communities is only one of the housing challenges facing Northern Ireland today. There is more generally a shortage of social housing, compared with demand, leading to increasing waiting lists.

This is not simply a matter of demography. It also reflects the number of properties bought under right to buy, limiting the availability of properties. Yet many former social housing units that are now in private ownership are today let as private rental – a sector that has grown substantially in recent years. Parts of the private rental market are of poor quality, offering tenants a diminished quality of life.

Meanwhile, the Housing Executive is facing serious difficulties in meeting demand, with limited resources. Operating as part of the public sector, it has restrictions on its borrowing ability – leading to proposals for its conversion into a mutually owned body that is taken out of the public sector. If it happens it will enable improved ability to borrow against its assets to build new homes and improve the quality of its existing housing stock. But opponents describe this as privatisation of public assets.

These are the issues discussed in the latest Holywell Trust Forward Together podcast with Paddy Gray, emeritus professor of housing with Ulster University and former president of the Chartered Institute of Housing.

The Holywell Trust Forward Together podcasts are funded by the Community Relations Council’s Media Grant Scheme.

Series 3 - Episode 9 - Neil McInroy Jun 11, 2021

Show notes

Concentration of the retail and consumer services sectors in the hands of a limited number of multinational corporations sucks wealth out of local communities and into the hands of shareholders based elsewhere. So should the response be to build the local economy by supporting independent businesses based in those localities, while maximising the spend of public institutions in their local communities?

That is the approach adopted through 'community wealth building', often termed 'the Preston model'. Preston is a council in Lancashire, England, which is a member of the co-operative network of councils. It has become an exemplar for a localised approach to economic development, building on previous attempts to retain spending in local communities, such as the Local Exchange Trading System.

In the latest Holywell Trust Forward Together podcast interview, Neil McInroy of the Centre for Local Economic Strategies (CLES) discusses the experience of Preston and other towns that have adopted community wealth building practices. He talks about whether that experience can be replicated in Northern Ireland and his work here in developing strategies to support local economic development. He is strongly committed to bottom up, rather than top down, approaches - building local skills and initiatives, rather than relying on inward investment.

The interview can be heard here. Further information on community wealth building is available on the CLES website. This is one of a series of conversations about what can be learnt from best practice in community and economic development elsewhere.

The Holywell Trust Forward Together podcasts are funded by the Community Relations Council’s Media Grant Scheme.

Series 3 - Episode 8 - Prof. Fred Freundlich Jun 04, 2021

Show notes

The Mondragon federation of co-operatives has been the foundation of the economy in Spain's Basque country for decades. It was founded back in 1956 by a priest - José María Arizmendiarrieta - who believed that the best response to the hostility and neglect of the region by the fascist dictator Franco was to develop co-operatives that relied on mutual self-help and independence.

Today there are 96 co-operatives which are members of the federation, employing more than 81,000 people. The federation includes manufacturing businesses, financial institutions, retailers and its own university - which operates as a knowledge, research and development centre for the group. Mondragon is the largest business operation in the Basque region and one of the ten largest commercial organisations in Spain.

There are similarities and differences between the Basque region and Northern Ireland. It is the similarities that have led many people over the years to ask if the Mondragon example could inspire a comparable movement here. The positive experience of credit unions - financial co-operatives - in Northern Ireland provides hope that it might.

In the latest Holywell Trust podcast, Fred Freundlich, a professor at Mondragon University, discusses what can be learnt from Mondragon and whether its success can be replicated.The interview can be heard here. It is one of a series of conversations about what can be learnt from best practice in community and economic development elsewhere.

The Holywell Trust Forward Together podcasts are funded by the Community Relations Council’s Media Grant Scheme.

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