Holywell Trust Conversations

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Why do we still have 'peace walls'? Sep 11, 2023

Show notes

Why do we still have ‘peace walls’?

Why, a quarter of a century after the Good Friday Agreement, do we still have peace walls? The truth, of course, is that the peace deal ended the conflict, but failed to end division and embed reconciliation.

Murdered journalist Lyra McKee famously wrote that more ‘peace walls’ have gone up in since the GFA than have come down. There are today over 20 miles of those walls, with the majority in Belfast. The most well known of these separate the Falls Road and the Shankill Road, while televised riots over the Northern Ireland Protocol broke out at the barricades at Springfield Road.

In Derry, there is just one ‘peace wall’ – which is between the Fountain estate and Bishop Street Without. The Fountain estate is Protestant / unionist and the only part of the city side which is. Yet the southern side of the Fountain estate does not have a peace wall – these are streets which feature terraced housing, much of it in private ownership. And some of that area has become mixed in recent years, with people moving in from other areas, of other traditions, including ethnic minorities and probably some Catholics. So the broader Fountain area is becoming more plural.

Because the River Foyle was a natural barrier between the overwhelmingly Catholic city-side and a more Protestant Waterside, we never had the number of peace walls in Derry that became common in Belfast.

However, there are two community interfaces on Derry’s Waterside and these are not marked by walls. One of these is the separation of the neighbouring Catholic Curryneiran and Protestant Tullyally estates; the other would be between Irish Street and the Top of the Hill.

The positive news from Derry is that a programme has been underway for the last 15 years to reconcile neighbouring communities of different traditions on the Waterside, which has led to the creation of a ‘shared village’, backed by substantial capital investment. This has gained the support from community groups in both the Protestant Irish Street area and the Catholic Top of the Hill. And a project funded by the International Fund for Ireland is engaged in bringing together the Protestant Fountain and Catholic Bishop Street residents on the city side.

While these projects represent real progress, we cannot overlook demographic changes that can add to tensions. The birth rate in Protestant communities is lower than amongst Catholics, even today. There is probably a different attitude to birth control for most Catholics now than in the past - but the Protestant population is significantly older than the Catholic population – and Protestants therefore make-up a smaller proportion of the parenting age population.

This demographic trend tends to mean that housing pressure in Catholic areas is greater than in Protestant areas. In turn, this can mean there are empty homes in what would traditionally be regarded as Protestant areas, compared to overcrowding in Catholic areas. That creates social tensions and pressure to shift traditional boundaries.

In addition, we have many more mixed religion families; and families with no religion. And, of course, more ethnic minorities who can only find empty properties in traditionally Protestant areas, leading to a greater diversity that is not always welcomed. In fact, the entire population growth in Belfast over the last two decades can be explained by the arrival of new ethnic minority communities.

What we see is a watering down of the traditional cultural character of some areas, with some residents – including some with paramilitary connections – trying to preserve the long standing monocultures. Not all of these tensions are easily addressed.

The latest Holywell Conversations podcast considers the continuing presence of peace walls and community divisions, with contributions from Kyra Reynolds, development worker at the Peace Barriers Programme, and Alison Wallace, strategy manager of the Waterside Neighbourhood Partnership.

The podcast is available at the Holywell Trust website.

Disclaimer: This project has received support from the Northern Ireland Community Relations Council which aims to promote a pluralist society characterised by equity, respect for diversity, and recognition of interdependence. The views expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Community Relations Council.

Connecting the North West Aug 14, 2023

Show notes

Derry and Donegal are not only marginalised by their geographic position on the periphery of the island of Ireland, but they are also very badly served by the transport infrastructure. They are not alone in this: there are also complaints from Sligo, Fermanagh and elsewhere in the West expressing similar concerns.

After a long campaign, parts of the A6 road between Derry and Belfast have been upgraded - though it is still not a dual carriageway between Dungiven and Castledawson. It was back in the 1960s that there were government plans to provide a motorway link from Belfast to Derry – which has still not happened and probably now never will.

Much of the immediate concern today is focused on the A5 road, between Derry and Dublin. In particular, the very high number of accidents and deaths along this road. It has been described as the most dangerous in Ireland, with 47 people killed in road accidents since plans were announced in 2007 to significantly upgrade it.

This is just one element of the transport infrastructure weakness in the North West region. Another can be seen clearly by looking at a map of the rail system. Derry is the end of the line, despite at one point in the city’s history having four stations and lines emerging out from the city. Neighbouring towns to the West and the South such as Letterkenny, Strabane and Omagh no longer have any rail connectivity.

Plans recently announced by the two administrations of the Republic and Northern Ireland indicate a possible partial reversal of past decisions closing rail lines. The all-island rail review was launched in 2021 by the South’s transport minister and Green Party leader Eamonn Ryan along with the then NI infrastructure minister Nichola Mallon. The results of that review were published last month.

For Derry, the proposals include one of great significance. This would be an additional rail connection to Belfast, achieved by reopening the rail link through Portadown, with the route travelling via Strabane, Omagh, Portadown and then through Lisburn into Belfast. Passengers could also connect on to Dublin via Portadown, with the Belfast to Dublin route potentially being upgraded for faster journey times.

Other elements of the plan include a spur from the Derry to Portadown line heading into Letterkenny and the possibility of a new rail connection between Derry and Limavady. And there will be further work undertaken into cross-Dublin mainline connectivity, which would potentially lead to a Belfast to Cork service, without the need to divert to local services between the two major Dublin stations of Connolly and Heuston.

A core element of the plan is the electrification of mainline rail across the island as part of the strategy to decarbonise our economy and transport system. Broader aspirations of the plan include cutting traffic-related air pollution, congestion and also the desire in the South to spread housing demand, achieved through improved public transport connectivity.

None of this is cheap. The entire programme outlined is costed at around €32bn, or £27bn. And before anyone gets too excited, even after – or maybe if – there is political agreement behind it, the plan would take a quarter of a century to deliver. And there is not even unanimous support within government in the Republic behind it, nor, of course, is there any sort of government in the North to either object or endorse it.

It is significant that the consultation that accompanied the review had a disproportionately large response from residents in the North, especially the North West. This illustrates how important transport connectivity is for Derry and the rest of the region.

The latest Holywell Trust Conversations podcast considers this transport infrastructure deficit in the North West and specifically the proposals contained in the all island rail review. These would substantially improve rail connectivity for Derry, Tyrone and parts of Donegal.

‘Into the West’ successfully campaigned against the possible closure of the rail line into Derry and is lobbying for renewed rail links in the North West. Steve Bradley of the group tells the podcast that while he welcomes the proposals contained in the review, it has not recommended everything the group is seeking.

The podcast also hears from Northern Ireland roads expert Wesley Johnston, who considers what could be learnt from the overspends on the road construction programme in terms of the likely actual cost of such an ambitious programme of work on our rail system.

This and earlier Holywell Conversations podcasts can be listened to through the Holywell Trust website.

Flaming July Jul 31, 2023

Show notes

Only the most devoted conspiracy theorist could deny climate change given the devastating events of recent weeks. Spring was marked by deadly fires in Canada, terrible floods in Northern Italy and even an unfamiliar heatwave in Northern Ireland.

Now things have got even more deadly, with awful new fire outbreaks in Greece, Italy Algeria and Tunisia. And a severe worsening of ice melting in the Antarctic. Meanwhile, the drought and loss of agricultural land in the Horn of Africa is leading to starvation and population displacement – and contributing to regional wars.

Even before the apocalyptic events of recent weeks, the evidence was clear that climate change is happening. The hottest day ever recorded in the UK was in July last year. The hottest day ever recorded in Ireland was in August last year. All of the UK's 10 warmest years have been recorded since 2000. And until this year, last year was Europe’s hottest ever. Over 60,000 people died from heat in Europe in 2022.

The Met Office states categorically that this series of hot weather records is directly related to climate change and results from the widespread burning of fossil fuels that began with the Industrial Revolution. It is probably now a matter of mitigating the crisis, rather than reversing it. But with much of Northern Ireland’s coastal areas at risk from rising sea levels, we have our own selfish interest in achieving the least worst outcome.

In the latest Holywell Conversations podcast, Professor John Barry puts the climate crisis in perspective. But as well as analysis we hear from the National Energy Agency’s home energy advisor Nichola MacDougall on what we can do to improve the energy efficiency in our homes – which will both cut our own carbon emissions, but also cut our heating bills during the cost of living crisis.

While there is a lot of discussion about the big ticket items that will bring down carbon emissions and heating bills, Nichola talks about some low cost improvements that will make a big difference. These include blocking unused chimneys and focusing on improved insulation around the home. For once political action can save consumers money, rather than spending it.

Showing paramilitaries the exit door Jun 19, 2023

Show notes

Recent weeks have seen a rise in concern about the continuing presence of paramilitaries in our society. Just how we make faster progress in removing them is the question considered in the latest Holywell Trust Conversations podcast.

Clearly, 25 years ago when the Good Friday Agreement was approved by the public, they would have expected paramilitaries to have been fully or largely removed from our society by now. Yet we still see significant activity by both loyalist and republican groups.

Should we, though, as chief executive of Co-operation Ireland and former senior PSNI and RUC officer Peter Sheridan suggests, see some of the groups simply as organised crime gangs? Would that reflect more accurately where our society is in comparison to those places in Dublin, London and the United States, for example, which are also burdened by drug-related criminality?

Given that paramilitaries exercise coercive control over communities, with territories marked out by flags, is effective regulation and policing of the use of flags an essential element in asserting dominance over paramilitary groups? This is an approach favoured by Professor Dominic Bryan, who was joint chair of the commission on Flags, Identity, Culture and Tradition. And why is that commission’s report, as Bryan puts it, sitting on shelves “gathering dust”, rather than being implemented?

Despite this sense of negativity, we should reflect on the progress achieved, especially since the Fresh Start Agreement of 2015, which identified the need to end paramilitarism “once and for all”. It established the Independent Reporting Commission to focus on this.

The trend since then has been downward, though it rose again in the last year. In the 12 months ending 31st May, there was one security-related death; seven bombings; 33 shootings; and 32 casualties of paramilitary assaults.

Tackling paramilitary criminality is handled jointly by the PSNI, An Garda Síochána, HMRC, the National Crime Agency and the security services. It is the approach of the PSNI, in particular, that has been questioned, with critics suggesting that heavy-handed policing undermines acceptance of the PSNI in poorer communities and has led to greater support for paramilitaries.

These complaints grew in recent days with the arrest in public sight of a health care worker in Derry, with very public comments about the arrest from the PSNI. This led to strong criticisms of the police from her solicitors, Madden and Finucane.

The firm stated that “to arrest a woman with no criminal record, from her place of work where she is a well respected health care professional wholly unconnected to criminality of any kind, and to then denigrate her good name in the most egregious way, is to be condemned and deplored”.

Asked whether heavy handed policing undermines the PSNI’s attempts at tackling paramilitaries, Sheridan put the spotlight on how the Policing Board sees its role. “The Policing Board needs to be more vocal around this staff and take more public responsibility,” he says, adding that the political parties should nominate more senior members onto the Board, to raise its status. “I think Sinn Fein are probably the only people today who put people onto the Board who are particularly well known.”

The podcast can be listened to at the Holywell Trust website.

Where is the Peace Dividend? Jun 05, 2023

Show notes

A few days ago the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee of the House of Commons was told that for some communities here, the expected peace dividend from the Good Friday Agreement never arrived.

Tim Attwood of the John and Pat Hume Foundation reported on its recent ‘Peace Summit’. “One of the young people said, ‘The conflict was not the problem; the peace is’, because, in so many places, they do not see the dividend. Some working-class people in parts of Belfast or Derry do not see the dividend. Where are the jobs? Where is the investment that gives them the hope for the future?”

A couple of years ago, the Derry University Group – lobbyists for university expansion in the city – published research from accountant Cormac Duffy which concluded that, in real terms, while the Belfast economy grew by 14% since the Good Friday Agreement, Derry’s economy contracted by 7%. Those figures are rejected, both by the independent FactCheckNI and by Derry City and Strabane District Council. Yet the conclusions resonated in Derry, where there is resentment and a feeling of being left behind.

Duffy’s conclusion was based on comparing Gross Value Added in the two cities. But, as the author himself recognised, those statistics are distorted by the commuting nature of the Belfast economy, with many of the best paying jobs in the capital taken by people who live in Lisburn, Bangor and elsewhere.

The unemployment rate provides an alternative measure of progress. At the time of the Good Friday Agreement, the unemployment rate in the Foyle constituency was 15.2% and the male unemployment rate 20.7%. This was the 7th worst in the UK, behind Belfast West and several deprived areas of England. Today the claimant count rate in Foyle is 5.6% and 6.9% for men.

The UK rate in 1998 was 6.3%, today it is 3.9%. In 1998, the Foyle rate was around 9% higher than that of the UK average. Today it is 1.7% higher. So measured by official unemployment rates, Derry has gained a peace dividend.

Yet, Derry continues to lag behind the rest of the UK in employment rate and wealth generation. While the UK had an employment rate of 75% at the end of 2021, it was just 65% in the Derry and Strabane council area. And the levels of deprivation in the city (as in parts of Belfast) continue to be disgraceful, 25 years on from a peace accord that might have been expected to resolve most of our society’s challenges.

Some 38% of the population in Derry and Strabane are classed as income deprived, compared to the NI figure of 25%. Pay in Derry and Strabane is 9% below the NI median, while disposable income per head is 11% below the NI average. More positively, the council points to official statistics indicating that both Derry and Belfast have been catching up with the rest of the UK in terms of median pay, and also that Derry has been catching up with Belfast.

But official statistics also reveal that more than half of children growing up in Derry and Strabane live in areas classed as deprived. While 42% of children in Derry are eligible for free school meals, this compares to 28% across NI as a whole and 22.5% in England. This is an astonishing disparity.

It is the lack of progress in narrowing Derry’s poverty gap with the rest of the UK that has caused many people to argue that there has not been a sufficient peace dividend for Derry – with some communities almost untouched by economic improvement.

A presentation last week in Derry by John Daly, senior economist at the Northern and Western Regional Assembly, both spelled out the dire situation in Derry and Donegal, while also suggesting a solution. Daly argued this requires expanding university provision in Derry; capitalising on the opportunities presented by the new Atlantic Technological University across the border; increasing the focus on the high technology research produced by the two institutions; and exploring how to develop regional structures.

The latest Holywell Trust Conversations podcast discusses the weakness of the peace dividend for Derry – and the rest of NI – with Dr Ciara Fitzpatrick of Ulster University; Garbhan Downey of the Derry University Group; and Tim Attwood, chief executive of the John and Pat Hume Foundation.

* A report on the ‘Peace Summit’ – ‘The Unfinished Business of Peace and Reconciliation – A Call to Action’ – has been published. The Holywell Trust is a partner organisation.

Trashing the environment May 22, 2023

Show notes

Just five miles from Derry’s city centre, on the suburban edge of the Waterside, is the site of one of the worst environmental crimes in UK history. It has been described as Europe’s largest illegal waste dump, which may be an exaggeration, but it is certainly one of the very biggest.

The Mobuoy waste dump runs across both sides of Derry’s Mobuoy Road. It covers 116 acres and contains 100 tonnes of illegally buried rubbish. While the company running the site was legally registered as a waste disposal business, it evaded around £100m in tax through its illegal use of the site. There are fears that toxins from the waste could spill into the adjoining River Faughan, which provides some of Derry’s drinking water. It is contaminating fresh water relied upon by wildlife and there are fears for neighbouring farmland.

Until a few weeks ago, it was not possible to report properly on this scandal, though there was an official investigation into Mobuoy by Chris Mills - the so-called Mills Report. There has been a long-running attempt to prosecute directors of the company. Two of whom have now been convicted, which means Mobuoy can now be discussed.

The Mobuoy effects will be long lasting. Not only will most of the rubbish not decay naturally, quickly, but there is no decision yet on how to clean it up. Any solution is likely to cost hundreds of millions of pounds. And the final element of the upgraded section of the A6 Belfast to Derry road was to have arrived at Gransha – via Mobuoy. Instead, for the moment at least, it ends at Drumahoe.

A recent Radio 4 series and podcast reported in detail on this crime and led to much greater attention to it than had previously been the case. In addition, Sam McBride of the Belfast Telegraph wrote a series of reports on the Mobuoy scandal.

In the latest of the podcast series Holywell Trust Conversations, Sam provides the background to his articles and the shock he experienced on visiting the site. We also discuss with Queen’s University PhD student June Hwang his research for his dissertation and his assertion that it is the sectarianisation of Northern Ireland government that led to environmental protection being sidelined.

Dean Blackwood, a member of Derry environmental group The Gathering, who is also a professional planner and one of the most respected figures in Ireland in environmental protection, considers in the podcast why Northern Ireland, especially the North West, has such a serious problem with this extremely lucrative environmental crime.

While Mobuoy is the extreme example of environmental crime, Derry’s rural roads are littered with dumped rubbish. And illicit waste operators have long been accused of taking local waste across the border into Donegal to illegally bury trash.

This is a problem for which there is no quick or easy solution, either regarding Mobuoy, or the wider problem. But it is essential that the challenge is properly examined and discussed.

The podcast can be listened to at the Holywell Trust website.

Human Rights May 08, 2023

Show notes

Human rights are under threat in the UK, warns the Northern Ireland Human Rights Chief Commissioner Alyson Kilpatrick.

While the immediate question is whether the British government will change the law in order to remove large numbers of asylum seekers to Rwanda, this is in the context of proposals for the UK to leave the European Convention on Human Rights. This would have significant, negative, implications for Northern Ireland, given that this is one of the foundations of the Good Friday Agreement.

The future of human rights legislation is the subject of the latest Holywell Trust Conversations, our podcast series looking at contentious challenges facing Northern Ireland. This latest podcast contains an in-depth interview with Alyson Kilpatrick, along with contributions from the new director of the Committee on the Administration of Justice, Daniel Holder, and Queen’s University Professor of Human Rights, Colin Harvey.

Both Alyson and Daniel express real concern about the threats to human rights in all the UK. Colin shares those concerns, while suggesting that much of the rhetoric from government ministers is to create a political environment for exploitation in the next General Election, and may not be realised in the actual legal changes that will be approved by Parliament.

It is important to recognise that the context is about much more than deporting asylum seekers to Africa, including those who are fleeing from wars and oppression in places such as Afghanistan, Syria and the Horn of Africa.

Questions were raised about the UK’s membership of the European Convention on Human Rights – and being subject to the decisions of the European Court of Human Rights – during the Brexit referendum debates. This is despite the ECHR being separate from the EU; pre-dating the creation of the EU and its predecessors; having a much larger membership; and it having been an initiative of British Conservative Second World War Prime Minister Winston Churchill.

Three government Bills affect – diminish, argue human rights lawyers – human rights in the UK. The most profound of these is the Bill of Rights Bill, which was a pet project of former deputy prime minister Dominic Raab. Whether the Bill of Rights Bill will proceed given Raab’s resignation over bullying allegations is not yet clear. If it does, it will remove some protections included in the Human Rights Act.

In addition, the Illegal Migration Bill seeks to limit the European Court of Human Rights’ role in adjudicating over British actions to remove asylum seekers to Rwanda. And the Government’s Troubles Bill, often called the legacy bill, puts an end to prosecutions and investigations into Troubles deaths in Northern Ireland.

Removing human rights protections is of serious concern to lawyers, but is relevant to the daily lives of much of the population. Indeed, the failure of successive British governments to deliver the promised Northern Ireland Bill of Rights is blamed by the podcast interviewees for holding back our society in achieving greater progress towards social equality within NI.

The podcast can be listened to at the Holywell Trust website.

Longer versions of the three interviews are also available there.

Funding the North West - Levelling Up and Shared Prosperity Fund Apr 24, 2023

Show notes

Anger in the voluntary sector

There was anger across Northern Ireland when the government’s funding allocations from the replacement for the European Social Fund were announced. Firstly, the announcement was made late morning on the very last day possible. And secondly, the level of funding from the replacement programme, the Shared Prosperity Fund, was much less than that lost from ESF. Many people felt this was not the promise the UK government made after Brexit.

For people in Derry, this was regarded by some as a second blow. While the city did well from the first found of the Levelling-Up Fund, it got nothing from the second round – despite having the worst deprivation figures in NI, and one of the very worst in the whole of the UK.

The second of the new series of Holywell Trust Conversations podcasts contains interviews with people in voluntary groups in Derry that have experienced the two programmes – both winners and losers – to ask them about their experiences and the impact of the decisions.

While Derry got nothing from that second round of the Levelling-Up Fund, it actually did very well from that first round. Some £49m went into NI from the initial allocations, of which £16m was won for the Derry and Strabane council area. This was far more than to be expected from its share of the population.

Criteria for the Levelling-Up Fund were projects that would cut crime in areas where it is worst; provide incomes for those who need it most; transform the economy by generating higher paid and higher skilled jobs; and attract new investment. Groups that obtained funding were a sports hub for boxing and snooker, that also contains football changing rooms; improvements to the village centre in Derg; and the Acorn City Farm on a derelict part of Derry’s largest central recreation area, St Columb’s Park.

Success in that first round was in part the result of the council already having projects that were ready to go, with businesses cases prepared, and looking for funding. Shauna Kelpie of Acorn City Farm, discusses her experience of successfully bidding for Levelling-Up Fund money on the podcast.

It was that context of first round success that explains Derry’s lack of success in the second round, when £71m was distributed across NI. That did not prevent some local people who bid into that second round from being very unhappy at being rejected, nor raising questions about how the government was implementing its criteria.

But if there was unhappiness about the Levelling-Up Fund, that was nothing to the sheer anger felt across the voluntary sector about the results of the replacement of ESF by the Shared Prosperity Fund. Many groups that had been funded for years by ESF, delivering important projects, found themselves without continued funding and were shocked by the decisions. Some employees were told on the Friday that there was no job for them to come into on the following Monday.

Catherine Barr of Derry’s Women’s Centre strongly criticised the bidding process as well as the decision, which means that some of its core services have now been lost. The government had told groups to bid in partnerships, and the proposal that involved local women’s groups and led by Derry Youth and Community Workshops was rejected. No explanation for the decision was provided by government.

Charles Lamberton of Triax is equally critical of the process, even though Triax was successful in its bid for funding. They are providing a range of training and support services to people across the Derry and Strabane council area who are economically inactive.

It is clear that while there is enormous anger at the decisions taken, the process undertaken by government departments has made the situation very much worse. Bidding processes began late, with decisions taken only at the very last moment. Nor were those decisions consistent with what many in the voluntary sector understood the criteria and level of funding to be. The result if a significant loss of key services, without obvious routes to replace them.

The podcast is hosted on the Holywell Trust website.

Disclaimer: This project has received support from the Northern Ireland Community Relations Council which aims to promote a pluralist society characterised by equity, respect for diversity, and recognition of interdependence. The views expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the Community Relations Council.    

Belfast Good Friday Agreement - An Explainer Apr 10, 2023

Show notes

Belfast/Good Friday Agreement analysis opens new Holywell Trust Conversations series

Conversations with key players in the Belfast/Good Friday Agreement negotiations open a new series of podcasts from the peace and reconciliation charity, the Holywell Trust. Suitably, the new series is called the Holywell Trust Conversations, reflecting a more in-depth discussion of topics that are continuing to affect Northern Ireland, and especially the North West – where Holywell is located.

The conversations in this opening podcast are with three central characters in the GFA negotiations – who have very different experiences, based on their varying roles. Avila Kilmurray was a founder of the Women’s Coalition, which came into the negotiations only after the elections that preceded the GFA. Paul Bew, Lord Bew, arrived even later, on the day of the final conclusion of the agreement. By contrast, Irish government official Ray Bassett had been heavily involved for years in multi-party negotiations that culminated in the GFA.

It is worth remembering that bringing peace to NI had been a long-term project. It is easy to forget – as I had – that the initial British government statement that the UK state had no ‘strategic selfish or economic interest in Northern Ireland’ was actually made when Peter Brooke was secretary of state and Margaret Thatcher was still Prime Minister. But Ray Bassett recalls that it was Tony Blair’s arrival as PM that was ‘like a spaceship arriving’ in transforming the atmosphere of the talks. He adds that it was only Blair and Irish Taoiseach Bertie Ahern that really believed the negotiations would succeed.

Paul Bew reflects that his role was to be a calm voice in David Trimble’s ear, reassuring him that the cross-border bodies would be administrative and did not presage a constitutional revolution. But Paul today expresses concern on how Brexit has created new uncertainties and anxieties that are reminiscent of the fears expressed by many at the time of the GFA.

Avila Kilmurray recalls the significant role the Women’s Coalition made, and the support it received from the then secretary of state Mo Mowlam. It was the background of the members of the Women’s Coalition in community organisations that led to it being effective in demanding commitments not only to support women in society, but also to reconciliation, victims, anti-poverty measures, integrated education and for both the Civic Forum and a Bill of Rights in the final agreement. Not that all these commitments have even now been fulfilled.

The three interviewees make some similar points. There is no affection for the St Andrews Agreement, which made significant amendments to the GFA, but an expression of appreciation and affection for David Ervine and his role in providing support for David Trimble in bringing enough unionists over the line for the GFA to have cross-community support. They all applaud the calm role of George Mitchell, the perfect talks chair.

An explanation of the core elements of the GFA and the subsequent major agreements – St Andrews, Stormont House, Fresh Start and New Decade New Approach – is also included in the podcast.

The podcast is hosted on the Holywell Trust website, along with full length conversations with Avila Kilmurray, Paul Bew and Ray Bassett. All the Holywell Conversations podcasts are funded by the Community Relations Council’s Media Grant Scheme.

Series 3 - Episode 18 - Peter Hain Aug 13, 2021

Show notes

Boris Johnson, Theresa May and David Cameron must accept part of the responsibility for the continuing “gridlock” of politics in Northern Ireland, through their failure to engage in the political process here, argues former Labour secretary of state Peter Hain. He also allocates blame to Conservative secretaries of state, with the exception of Julian Smith.

Hain says that prime ministers must recognise that their role includes strong engagement with the Northern Ireland parties, in order to keep political progress on track. “You have to be hands-on,” he says of the PMs and secretaries of state. “I think David Cameron and his successors made a basic error in thinking that the job was done when they took office in 2010. And he did not - nor did Theresa May and certainly not Boris Johnson - have the constant focus that Northern Ireland needs, building relationships with all the key political leaders and others, and being there – not on a fly in, fly out basis, or the odd Zoom call for half an hour here and there – but actually constantly engaged.”

He adds that the “unravelling of Stormont” and the crisis over the Northern Ireland Protocol have been the “result” of what he terms the “neglect” by those prime ministers and their secretaries of state. He adds that the UK government must act as the “honest broker” when it comes to Northern Ireland, “but that hasn’t been the case” because of the Conservatives’ relationship with unionism, especially the DUP. “The government aligned itself with one side of the divide,” he continues.

Hain is equally critical of the DUP, and especially the leadership of Arlene Foster, in not moving society and politics forward in recent years. “She didn’t seem to have the ability, or self-confidence, or the leadership calibre to actually lead from the front, and not always do her party’s bidding in a kind of lapdog fashion.”

He adds that Northern Ireland’s politics require leaders who will “lead from the front”, and believes that Jeffrey Donaldson may have that skill and capacity. Hain hopes that Jeffrey Donaldson will prove to be a leader who can take the political process forward, rather than backwards. He calls on the DUP to see Sinn Fein as partners in government, “rather than the devil incarnate”. It is possible to work together, without the two parties liking each other, he stresses.

“Northern Ireland’s political leaders have to decide if they are focused on the future, or trapped by the past,” says Hain. In the interview he also discusses how to make cross-party progress on the reform of the health and education systems, and the role of citizens’ assemblies in creating a strong voice for civic society in Northern Ireland.

This is the 18th and final episode in the third series of Holywell Trust Forward Together podcasts. This follows interviews with the leaders of the five political parties in government in Northern Ireland; Simon Hoare MP, who is chair of the House of Commons Northern Ireland Affairs Committee; and sector experts, who have assessed the need for reform of our public services. All the past podcasts are available on the Holywell Trust website.

The Holywell Trust Forward Together podcasts are funded by the Community Relations Council’s Media Grant Scheme.

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