Heels of Justice

HOJ 034: Mini Episode Jun 01, 2021

Katherine and Sarita discuss the highlights from the first three amazing guests of the season.

HOJ 033: The Mother's Day Episode May 07, 2021

Sarita and Katherine share their appreciation for the lawyer mom wisdom of past HOJ guests and some lawyer mom tales of their own. Happy Mother's Day!

HOJ 032: Party of One, Silicon Valley GC, Rolling with the Punches Apr 08, 2021

Welcome to Heels of Justice; these are the stories of women lawyers who are trailblazers in their field and paved the way for the rest of us.

Today, The Heels of Justice welcome Kristin Sverchek, General Counsel for Lyft. She is an award-winning lawyer with an incredible career. She shares a wealth of tips and advice from hiring to juggling time, motherhood, and big egos.

Kristin Sverchek has led Lyft’s legal team and strategy as General Counsel since November 2012. In that time, she has helped Lyft grow from a private to a public company and an IPO and currently leads a legal team of more than 130 people. Kristin started her career working in private practice as a corporate transactional lawyer at both Gunderson Dettmer and Silicon Legal Strategy before going in-house at Lyft in 2012. Sverchek majored in Molecular and Cell Biology at UC Berkeley, graduating in 2004. She received her law degree in 2007 from UC Hastings College of the Law in San Francisco.

Key Takeaways

[1:07] Sarita welcomes Kristin Sverchek to the Heels of Justice and asks her to talk about herself, where she grew up, how she came to law from an undergrad in molecular and cell biology.

[4:01] Kristin touches on how the scientific thought process and that of law are similar in their rational linearity.

[5:37] From law school to becoming the GC of Lyft, Kristin walks us through losing her first job and joining a small silicon valley corporate transactional practice where she met the Lyft founders.

[9:55] Kristin speaks to the insecurities of becoming a GC so soon out of law school and why she decided to go for it! She also breaks down the reasons why she thinks she got the job. (Tune in for tips!)

[12:26] What kinds of surprises does the GC position hold? Kristen shares a few times her position revealed the differences between in-house and outside counsel.

[15:52] What makes Lyft, Lyft?

[17:04] Going from being a one-woman legal team to having a team of about 130 people is a challenge; Kristin shares some pointers!

[19:07] How do you hire for a successful startup, from private to public and IPO? Finding agile candidates goes by way of how they handle their own mistakes.

[22:02] Diversity and inclusion at Lyft are very intentional — Kristin shares how her initial insecurities turned into hiring practice.

[24:07] Kristin put together the parental leave policy at Lyft and how it evolved during her own maternity leave!

[27:50] Employee growth is now part of company culture and it started with the first people Kristin hired who got a ton of executive exposure and aligns with the legal team’s specific vision, mission, and values.

[30:21] Kristin speaks to the challenges she has faced in her career both as a woman and as a GC.

[32:32] What time management skills is Kristin hiding!? It just maybe, in part thanks to Tom.

[35:22] Thinking long-term can prevent burnout, Kristin talks about the written advice she’s been sharing. She shares what her own long-term vision is.

[38:15] Big egos are run of the mill in the tech industry, Kristin shares how she chooses to interact (or not) with those individuals.

[40:39] Kristin advocates for herself in a few ways but the trap she chooses to avoid is misunderstanding: be very clear about what you do, want, need, and expect. She shares an example.

[43:40] Kristin and her husband carpool every day, thanks to Lyft.

[44:33] Sarita thanks Kristin for sharing so much of her story and expertise on the Heels of Justice podcast and she signs off until next time.

That’s it for this episode of Heels of Justice; if you like the stories we’re telling, please visit our website. You can join our mailing list, learn more about our guests, and see what we have planned for the future.

You can also follow us on Twitter, on Instagram, and on Facebook.

Disclaimer: The opinions you have heard are ours or our guests’ alone. They’re not the opinions of our employers, or our clients, or our bosses, and not our husbands, kids, or pets, or anyone else’s.

More about the Heels of Justice hosts Sarita Venkat, and Katherine Minarik

Heels of Justice on the Web

Heels of Justice on Twitter

Heels of Justice on Instagram

Heels of Justice on Facebook

Sarita Venkat on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on Twitter

Katherine Minarik at cleverbridge

More about our guest

Kristin Sverchek on LinkedIn

Mentioned in this episode

Lyft

HOJ 031: Karyn A. Temple: You are Important and You are Qualified; Don’t Be Afraid! Mar 19, 2021

Welcome to Heels of Justice; these are the stories of women lawyers who are trailblazers in their field and paved the way for the rest of us.

Karyn A. Temple, Senior Executive Vice President and Global General Counsel for the Motion Picture Association joins the Heels of Justice to share her steadfast journey into copyright law.

Tune in for a fascinating discussion about the journey in and out of governmental and private law practice as well as the evolution of work conditions for a woman of color in a largely white-male-dominated profession.

Key Takeaways

[:47] Katherine welcomes Karyn A. Temple and asks her to share the story of how she found her way into law school as well as how she found out the practice of law was her calling.

[4:00] Karyn shares how enjoyable law school was for her in both the differences and similarities to her expectations as well as seeing a path to copyright law.

[8:35] From clerking on the Sixth Circuit to working at the Department of Justice (for a short time, alongside her mother!) and joining Williams & Connolly, Karyn shares her formidable private and government experience.

[14:53] Karyn speaks to her first in-house role at the Recording Industry Association, and how her proactive interest in entertainment cases at Williams & Connolly helped her in that role. She shares one particular case she had to tackle there.

[18:59] Looping back into the DoJ! Karyn shares what brought her back on the policy side — hint, it was a specific administration. She shares her roles and responsibilities as the Senior Counsel to the Deputy Attorney General of the United-States.

[21:55] Joining the Copyright Office was a full-circle experience and Karyn takes a moment to explain how copyright operates and how it affects so many aspects of our lives.

[26:21] Karyn shares two wonderful experiences where she was asked to go to Beijing and Marrakesh and negotiate treaties on the behalf of the United-States and explains what a copyright treaty is.

[28:47] So beyond being very cool, what does the title of United States Register of Copyrights, Karyn breaks down what the position entails and the teams that rely on its leadership.

[30:27] Reaching the pinnacle of copyright law was a huge pride point for someone as steadfastly focused on copyright law for her entire career! Karyn shares her most memorable achievement in the role.

[31:19] General Counsel of the Motion Picture Association is Karyn’s current role; she touches on what it is they do — you know those ratings? It’s them!

[30:32] Being a black woman in a notoriously undiverse profession, Karyn shares her daily experience of discrimination in its various forms, as well as her hope for the future and the conversation we need to have as a society. She also touches on how the current trend to speak openly about these issues is affecting the way she chooses to lead.

[34:39] Failure is part of how we learn; Karyn shares her perspective on what that means for lawyers and how you can move forward from your mistakes. She shares a moment when she advocated for herself in her career.

[49:31] Katherine thanks Karyn A. Temple for all of her insight and openness to share her experience and signs off until next time.

That’s it for this episode of Heels of Justice; if you like the stories we’re telling, please visit our website. You can join our mailing list, learn more about our guests, and see what we have planned for the future.

You can also follow us on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook.

Disclaimer: The opinions you have heard are ours or our guests’ alone. They’re not the opinions of our employers, or our clients, or our bosses, and not our husbands, kids, or pets, or anyone else’s.

More about the Heels of Justice hosts Sarita Venkat, and Katherine Minarik

Heels of Justice on the Web

Heels of Justice on Twitter

Heels of Justice on Instagram

Heels of Justice on Facebook

Sarita Venkat on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on Twitter

Katherine Minarik at cleverbridge

More about our guest

Karyn A. Temple is Senior Executive Vice President and Global General Counsel for the Motion Picture Association. One of the world’s leading authorities on copyright, Ms. Temple will oversee all of the Association’s legal affairs and content protection efforts around the world.

Prior to joining the Motion Picture Association, Ms. Temple served more than eight years in the U.S. Copyright Office, most recently as the Register of Copyrights, where she led the 400-person agency and its eight divisions representing law, policy, international affairs, financial operations, registration practice, public records, and outreach and education. In this role, she testified multiple times before both the U.S. House of Representatives and U.S. Senate and oversaw the Office’s policy and legal activities among others.

Find out more about Karyn A. Temple at the Motion Picture Association

Mentioned in this episode

Williams & Connolly LLP

Recording Industry Association

U.S. Copyright Office

Personal stories (edited)

“The fact that we're all copyright owners and copyright creators and generators is something that we often don't realize, but every time we take a picture, that’s a copyright that we own. Every time we decide to write a poem or create a new song to sing to our children to go to sleep, that’s another copyright. Often in the press, you see a lot just about big companies being copyright owners, but the fact that is that all of us as individuals are also creators in almost every aspect of our lives and have ownership of our work and rights under copyright law to be able to decide how that work should be distributed. We can also make money off that work if we so choose and I think it’s great to emphasize: all of us are creators in our own right.”

“I’m very proud that we got rid of our backlog of registration claims. We get hundreds of thousands of individual claims every year, and we have limited resources. We were able to secure some additional funds to hire more staff and work really closely with the head of the registration program — and all of the wonderful staff that we have in registration on developing ideas — to try to address our backlog so we can more quickly get those registration certificates out to people.”

HOJ 030: Judge Williams: Being the First, Ancestors, and Humanity Mar 04, 2021

Welcome to Heels of Justice; these are the stories of women lawyers who are trailblazers in their field and paved the way for the rest of us.

The Honorable retired Judge Ann Claire Williams is a trailblazer and leader devoted to promoting the effective delivery of justice worldwide, particularly in Africa. She has partnered with judiciaries, attorneys, NGOs, and the U.S. Departments of Justice and State to lead training programs in Ghana, Indonesia, Kenya, Liberia, Namibia, Nigeria, Rwanda, Tanzania, Uganda, and Zambia. She also has taught at the International Criminal Tribunals for Rwanda and the former Yugoslavia.

Judge Williams has led a brilliant career heading a series of firsts for both women and persons of color, she joins the podcast today to share her trailblazing stories and experience. Tune in for an insightful discussion about the ever-changing and evolving world we live in and the pivotal place lawyers take in it.

Key Takeaways

[1:00] Sarita welcomes Judge Ann Claire Williams and asks her to share a little bit about where she grew up, why she began teaching so early, and how she started law school on a dare!

[4:34] Though she had no idea what law school would be like, Judge Williams shares the insight she had that led her to believe she actually could be a lawyer: teachers teach and lawyers teach.

[8:06] Judge Williams shares advice for young aspiring law students from what it means to get a great grade point on your first year, to asking the questions to get the answers you need, getting mentors and sponsors to get recommendation letters, joining the Moot Court and affinity groups, and much, much more! Fifty percent of the game is believing in yourself.

[17:50] Starting her legal career was partly thanks to having made an impression on the Dean at law school, Judge Williams shares how she came to clerk, for whom and how she changed his hiring practice. She shares the three lessons she learned from getting that position:

1- You never know who is looking at you and evaluating you

2- We are not in the rooms where decisions are made so you need allies and mentors to pitch for you

3- Mentors come in all colors and ages

[21:04] Judge Williams talks about how she started as an Assistant U.S. Attorney and the conversation she agreed to have with Marianne Jackson that sparked her interest in the AUSA. She shares her experience there and the sensitivity she hopes to have brought to the position.

[27:11] Sarita lays out the long list of “firsts” that Judge Williams has had the courage and grace to accomplish for all those who came after her. Judge Williams shares what these have meant to her.

[30:33] Judge Williams shares what it is that judges want, and what you should avoid at all costs — don’t ruin your own credibility: you want an assumption that the arguments you’re making are strong and to the point. Also, “Judges talk, just like lawyers, and we talk about lawyers!”

[35:45] Having loved being a trial lawyer and a trial judge, our guest shares what pulled her from the bench. She touches on the differences and challenges in tackling the Court of Appeals cases.

[39:39] Judge Williams speaks to having begun her work in Africa in 2002, what that burgeoned into over the years and what personal dream she was able to fulfill by doing so. She opens up about the kind of work she has been able to do through her current counsel practice at Jones Day.

[46:32] Having had the opportunity to work on multiple continents, Judge Williams shares some of the differences and similarities she’s had the pleasure of witnessing first hand. One common thread linking most is a belief in the rule of law and the accessibility of law for the people of their countries.

[48:25] The amount of work Judge Williams had done outside of her “job” is impressive; she speaks to the reasons that drove her to accomplish this much and launch these organizations.

[55:00] Judge Williams explains how she started the bar review program. One person can make a difference and you shouldn’t let your robe get in the way of your humanity.

[1:01:08] George Floyd.

[1:10:03] A salient career moment, Judge Williams shares a story of Judge Hugh Will and how he encouraged her to go to a particular meeting where — unbeknownst to her — he had decided to make her treasurer of the Federal Judges Association which put her on track to become the first person of color to become an officer and eventually president.

She also shares a beautiful personal story about having the privilege and honor of introducing President Obama as well as having her mother meet him.

[1:15:50] Judge Williams shares her mantras going through COVID-19.

[47:10] Sarita thanks Judge Williams for sharing so much of her story and experience on the Heels of Justice podcast and she signs off until next time.

That’s it for this episode of Heels of Justice; if you like the stories we’re telling, please visit our website. You can join our mailing list, learn more about our guests, and see what we have planned for the future.

You can also follow us on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook.

Disclaimer: The opinions you have heard are ours or our guests’ alone. They’re not the opinions of our employers, or our clients, or our bosses, and not our husbands, kids, or pets, or anyone else’s.

More about the Heels of Justice hosts Sarita Venkat, and Katherine Minarik

Heels of Justice on the Web

Heels of Justice on Twitter

Heels of Justice on Instagram

Heels of Justice on Facebook

Sarita Venkat on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on Twitter

Katherine Minarik at cleverbridge

More about our guest

Judge Ann Claire Williams on LinkedIn

Mentioned in this episode

Jones Day

Just The Beginning

Equal Justice Works

Black Women Lawyers’ Association

Minority Legal Education Resource

HOJ 029: Season 2 Kickoff Feb 22, 2021

Sarita and Katherine kick off Season 2.

HOJ 028: RBG Sep 22, 2020

Rest In Power

HOJ 027: The Virus Episode Apr 22, 2020

Sarita and Katherine catch up about what the coronavirus has changed in their lives and how they are actually doing as they try to navigate it all.

HOJ 026: Happy New Year, and Happy New Season! Jan 10, 2020

Welcome to Heels of Justice; these are the stories of women lawyers who are trailblazers in their field and paved the way for the rest of us.

Today, Katherine and Sarita ring in the New Year with a glimpse of the upcoming Season 2! They also share some stories from the time they took to plan it.

Key Takeaways

[:22] Sarita and Katherine welcome listeners to this Season 2 teaser episode — Happy New Year listeners!

[:59] During their hiatus, Katherine was asked if she had listened to Sarita’s podcast!

[1:35] Sarita shares her own hiatus story — students were surprised and relieved by the sisterhood.

[3:19] Katherine and Sarita invite listeners to listen to the episodes they may have missed from Season 1 and prepare to launch Season 2!

That’s it for this episode of Heels of Justice; if you like the stories we’re telling, please visit our website. You can join our mailing list, learn more about our guests, and see what we have planned for the future.

You can also follow us on Twitter, on Instagram, and on Facebook.

Disclaimer: The opinions you have heard are ours or our guests alone. They’re not the opinions of our employers, or our clients, or our bosses, and not our spouses, kids or pets, or anyone else’s.

More about the Heels of Justice hosts Sarita Venkat, and Katherine Minarik

Heels of Justice on the Web

Heels of Justice on Twitter

Heels of Justice on Instagram

Heels of Justice on Facebook

Sarita Venkat on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on Twitter

Katherine Minarik at cleverbridge

HOJ 025: Katherine & Sarita: Catch Up, Wrap Up, & Thank You! Jun 23, 2019

Welcome to Heels of Justice; these are the stories of women lawyers who are trailblazers in their field and paved the way for the rest of us.

Today, Katherine and Sarita wanted to take a moment to reflect on how their interviews with such amazing guests have resonated with them so far, both personally and professionally.

Key Takeaways

[1:05] Katherine and Sarita welcome listeners to this third special episode of the Heels of Justice podcast and explain what about these discussions resonated with them the most.

[1:25] Sarita begins the conversation with the Ruby Zefo interview since both she and Katherine received emails about it!

[2:52] Katherine talks about how the leaps of faith from Ruby’s interview were echoed in her Sarah Burstein interview as well.

[4:28] Kerry McLean on feeling valued and Neha Sempat on belonging both gave Katherine the words she needed to talk about how she wants to be a better boss.

[6:04] Intuit wins the best place to work worldwide! That’s not trivial and hearing the insider perspective was one of Sarita’s high points.

[9:51] Maya Hazell’s dedicated work on diversity and inclusion is a great example of the progress and changes being made in big firms.

[10:33] Change seems to be a theme and Sarita asks Katherine’s perspective on Noreen Farrell’s work on equal pay as well as the big shift that the MeeToo movement facilitated.

[12:15] Claire McCaskill and Noreen’s Farrell’s similar panel experiences! Ambition is awesome, own it — Katherine shares a personal work experience on being criticized about it!

[16:23] Susan Henderson Moor is a contact of Sarita and the whole reason why Senator McCaskill was even on the podcast (what an incredible honor!)

[17:07] Listener feedback opens up the discussion on failure, nonlinear career paths, being comfortable with being uncomfortable and Katherine and Sarita share their own supportive spouse stories.

[21:34] Sarita’s husband's question for Kerry McLean was the one that resonated most with Katherine.

[23:38] This podcast is done on free time, Katherine and Sarita thank their families and each other for all of the volunteer work they’ve all done to get this out.

[24:2] Editing is important — Sarita shares the drinking game potential: every time she said “you’re amazing!”

[24:21] Sarita and Katherine wrap up season 1 of the Heels of Justice and thank their listeners for all the feedback.

We’ll be back soon with season 2!

That’s it for this episode of Heels of Justice; if you like the stories we’re telling, please visit our website. You can join our mailing list, learn more about our guests, and see what we have planned for the future.

You can also follow us on Twitter, on Instagram, and on Facebook.

Disclaimer: The opinions you have heard are ours or our guest’s alone. They’re not the opinions of our employers, or our clients, or our bosses, and not our husbands, kids or pets, or anyone else’s.

More about the Heels of Justice hosts Sarita Venkat, and Katherine Minarik

Heels of Justice on the Web

Heels of Justice on Twitter

Heels of Justice on Instagram

Heels of Justice on Facebook

Sarita Venkat on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on Twitter

Katherine Minarik at cleverbridge

Mentioned in this episode

Ruby Zefo

Sarah Burstein

Kerry McLean

Neha Sempat

Maya Hazell

Noreen Farrell

Claire McCaskill

To listen to all of these episodes, and more, visit the Heels of Justice website.

HOJ 024: Sarita Venkat: Constitution Day, Building Relationships, & Own Your Story Jun 20, 2019

Welcome to Heels of Justice; these are the stories of women lawyers who are trailblazers in their field and paved the way for the rest of us.

Today, the Heels of Justice interview co-host Sarita Venkat. Sarita is a lawyer, Board member and diversity advocate. She has held various in-house roles heading up technology transactions at ServiceNow, litigating at Apple Inc. and at Abbott Laboratories. She is a registered patent attorney, has a B.S. in Biology and a minor in Psychology.

She is the co-creator and co-host of Heels Of Justice as well as one of the leaders of ChIPs, and serves as a Board member for the South Asian Bar Association and World Arts West. She has been named one of Recorder's Women Leaders in Tech Law, a Corporate IP Star by Managing IP and has been presented with the Corporate Counsel award by the South Asian Bar Association. She is admitted to practice in Illinois, California, and the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office.

Key Takeaways

[1:16] Katherine welcomes her co-host, Sarita Venkat to her own podcast, and launches the interview at the very beginning: where did Sarita grow up? From a rickshaw in the Ashram to riding her first escalator!

[5:52] Sarita talks about the journey that took her from integrating a new culture during her formative years to becoming a lawyer. Constitution day and becoming a U.S. Citizen was a key moment in sparking her interest in law.

[9:00] Katherine asks Sarita to unpack her highschool experience, when she began building her confidence back up from the low point it had hit during her first experience as a minority.

[11:02] From law firms to in house work at various multinational companies, Sarita shares the two key things she has found that great lawyers have in common.

[16:01] Sarita’s work ethic evolved through working with great attorneys worldwide and integrating their best practices into the way she works, bettering how she understands what the clients need from her as a lawyer.

[20:52] Sarita remembers the first time she remembers feeling like a minority and a woman in her journey in the Law and some of the eye opening moments that followed.

[24:11] Why did Sarita want to launch this podcast? She recounts when she looked for a podcast on the great people in law and the first 30 interviewees were men despite her being around great women lawyers all the time!

[26:14] Sarita answers the question everyone is asked on the podcast: how does she advocate for herself? It turns out asking that very question to so many great women through the podcast has encouraged Sarita to dig deeper. She shares a very emotional answer.

[26:36] One thing people don’t know about this interview is that it’s Katherine’s 3rd attempt at interviewing Sarita!

[29:50] What would Sarita tell her 11 year old self? She shares how her dad showed her the importance of relationships.

[32:16] Katherine thanks Sarita Venkat for sharing so much of her stories and expertise on the Heels of Justice podcast and she signs off until next time.

That’s it for this episode of Heels of Justice; if you like the stories we’re telling, please visit our website. You can join our mailing list, learn more about our guests, and see what we have planned for the future.

You can also follow us on Twitter, on Instagram, and on Facebook.

Disclaimer: The opinions you have heard are ours or our guest’s alone. They’re not the opinions of our employers, or our clients, or our bosses, and not our husbands, kids or pets, or anyone else’s.

More about the Heels of Justice hosts Sarita Venkat, and Katherine Minarik

Heels of Justice on the Web

Heels of Justice on Twitter

Heels of Justice on Instagram

Heels of Justice on Facebook

Sarita Venkat on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on Twitter

Katherine Minarik at cleverbridge

Personal stories

“I remember defending a really, really famous music producer, I was so excited and I had been waiting for his deposition for 2 months. I was sitting there with the counsel on our side, and on the other side and after a really short deposition he stands up and says “Y'all have boring jobs!” And I was so crushed because it was like the most exciting thing that had happened in my whole career at the time! But the thing is that usually people — like eventually he did! — will go from that perception to giving me a hug next time they see me or chit chatting or sharing their personal lives with me, because I don’t ever want to be that lawyer that walks in and is greeted with a groan: I work at not being that lawyer.”

“9/11 happened when I was in Law School and I remember the shock, like everyone else. But the next morning I woke up and my dad had put all these american flag stickers all over our cars because he was really afraid for our family that being brown in our college town may cause some backlash. Nothing happened, but it was another jolt to me that not everything is rose colored glasses, and what is being perceived about you is something that you have to understand and keep in mind.”

“I went to the place I grew up in, and one of my older cousins who played a big part in raising me, she looked over at me at one moment and she said “To go from here, to the place that you are right now it’s mind boggling to me!” So looking back at my journey sometimes, and figuring out how far I’ve come plays a big part in how I advocate for myself, and it’s not about advocating to someone else: it’s about owning and living up to my own story so that I can bring my best self and understand the value that I am bringing to the table from a legal, mental and emotional perspective.”

HOJ 023: Claire McCaskill: Making History, Plenty Ladylike, & Blouse Check Jun 17, 2019

Welcome to Heels of Justice; these are the stories of women lawyers who are trailblazers in their field and paved the way for the rest of us.

Today, the Heels of Justice interview Claire Conner McCaskill who served as a United States Senator from Missouri from 2007 to 2019. She graduated from the University of Missouri and the University of Missouri School of Law. She was first elected to the U.S. Senate in 2006 and was the second female U.S. Senator from Missouri and the first female candidate to be elected to the U.S. Senate from Missouri.

She is a political analyst for MSNBC and NBC and a visiting fellow at the University of Chicago Institute of Politics.

Key Takeaways

[1:32] Sarita welcomes Claire McCaskill to the Heels of Justice and asks her what drew her to the Law and when she knew she wanted to run for office.

[4:36] Claire shares how prosecuting arson cases became a way to independence within a restricting firm and how her time in the courtroom more than anything in her career, helped be a better senator — she explains why that is.

[8:03] Even people she tried to put in jail supported her bid for office! Sarita asks why she thinks that is.

[10:06] Claire explains her two proudest moments as the first woman head prosecutor elected for Jackson county: drug courts and the domestic violence unit.

[12:18] What my mother does during the day? Claire shares a hilarious story of how kids can ground you.

[14:21] Claire had always done law as a road to politics, and all of her moves have been strategic in terms of bettering her chances at office — she shares the most important of those.

[17:01] Once in the Capitol, Claire’s law background became a key asset as well as how to avoid being slotted as the ditzy blonde from Kansas City (keep in mind the incredible chauvinistic attitudes of the times!)

[19:09] Did you bring your knee pads? The chilling account of what she was told when Claire asked how to pass a bill.

[21:49] The former Senator shares the different strategies she used over the course of her career to protect herself and fight against gender inequities.

[24:18] “I thought the world had ended.” Claire explains what she learned from her 2004 Governor position loss and how taking risks is absolutely essential.

[28:14] How are deals made in the Senate? Claire digs into the nature and importance of negotiation, courage and compromise in running a country.

[30:00] Some fun moments and momentous moments from her time in the senate (Happy birthday on Air Force One anyone?)

[32:28] The formidable women who have gotten to the United States Senate should not be messed with — it is no ordinary task they’ve accomplished.

[34:33] Sarita asks how people can support female candidates? Money talks and Claire shares the blouse story — Women have been socialized to see money as security whereas men have been taught it is power.

[37:16] Claire talks about the hope she has for the future of this country by way of History and constant vigilance. We do not have the luxury of turning ourselves off to the real problems facing our most vulnerable people — get over yourselves everybody.

[39:06] Claire has been through so much, and she shares her insight on how to get through it all in the spotlight: get perspective on how blessed you really are. She shares her mantra.

[41:46] To advocate for yourself, you have to be willing to! Claire redefines the “L” word… What is ladylike and how can we avoid her mistakes?

[44:45] Sarita thanks Claire McCaskill for sharing so much of her stories and expertise on the Heels of Justice podcast and she signs off until next time.

That’s it for this episode of Heels of Justice; if you like the stories we’re telling, please visit our website. You can join our mailing list, learn more about our guests, and see what we have planned for the future.

You can also follow us on Twitter, on Instagram, and on Facebook.

Disclaimer: The opinions you have heard are ours or our guest’s alone. They’re not the opinions of our employers, or our clients, or our bosses, and not our husbands, kids or pets, or anyone else’s.

More about the Heels of Justice hosts Sarita Venkat, and Katherine Minarik

Heels of Justice on the Web

Heels of Justice on Twitter

Heels of Justice on Instagram

Heels of Justice on Facebook

Sarita Venkat on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on Twitter

Katherine Minarik at cleverbridge

More about our guest

Claire McCaskill on the web

Claire McCaskill’s website

Claire McCaskill on Facebook

Claire McCaskill on Twitter

Claire McCaskill on YouTube

Claire McCaskill on Instagram

Claire McCaskill on Medium

Claire McCaskill on Flickr

Mentioned in this episode

Plenty Ladylike, by Claire McCaskill

The Years of Lyndon Johnson, by Robert A. Caro

Personal stories (edited)

“As a very young lawyer, I was the only woman in the office and so I was desperately trying to get out of handling what they naturally wanted to give me, which was first the low-level crime stuff like welfare fraud and burglaries. I wanted to get into major crimes. A government grant came along for arson prosecution, and I pitched the boss that I would be good at that. This resulted in two things: 1. gave me a raise, and B. gave me control over when I would go to a courtroom, because the terms of the grant stated the trainee would make all of the charging decisions.”

HOJ 022: Noreen Farrell: Gender Justice, Equal Pay, & Las Vegas Jun 12, 2019

Welcome to Heels of Justice; these are the stories of women lawyers who are trailblazers in their field and paved the way for the rest of us.

Today, the Heels of Justice interview Noreen Farrell whose entire legal career has been dedicated to the pursuit of social justice.

Noreen is a nationally-recognized leader on a variety of gender justice issues. She chairs the Equal Pay Today! Campaign, a national campaign led by ERA and 20 other organizational partners closing the gender wage gap in states across the country. She also founded and now chairs A Stronger California Advocates Network, a collaboration of 30 organizations advancing a comprehensive women’s economic security policy agenda. A key victory of the Stronger California Campaign in 2015 was the passage of the California Fair Pay Act, a bill co-sponsored by ERA that is the strongest equal pay law in the country. Noreen also leads national impact efforts to address gender discrimination in schools, sexual harassment, workplace leave and accommodation, and the protection of caregivers from discrimination at work.

Key Takeaways

[1:35] Sarita welcomes Noreen Farrell to the Heels of Justice and they kick-start today’s episode with a quick overview of what gender justice means.

[4:09] Noreen touches on how gender, sexuality, race, and ethnicity intersect in a very meaningful way, now that civil liberties are more and more under attack.

[5:05] Sarita asks what is the core goal of Equals Rights Advocates since the breadth of issues surrounding inequities is so overwhelming.

[6:35] Noreen talks about the work that has been done in the past 45 years around economic justice, from policy work to groundbreaking cases which led to a comprehensive approach in the form of the Women’s Agenda.

[9:39] Noreen believe we are at a watershed moment for the #metoo movement and she explains the three ways in which the #metoo movement was powerful:

1. It shifted the question from “Is sexual harassment an issue?” to “How do we stop it?”.

2. It exposed the complicit systems that profited from the devaluation of women.

3. It exposed the power of social media and collective action.

[12:29] Getting a call from Patricia Arquette … and the Frankenstein approach to the ultimately beautiful California Fair Pay Act.

[17:44] Noreen explains how the California Fair Pay Act was built, how making sure that employers could make pay decisions based on non-discriminatory factors enabled the bill to garner unprecedented support at the California Chamber of Commerce, as well as how it started the domino effect that can be seen in 41 States and through the Federal Paycheck Fairness Act.

[20:23] Stronger California is an agenda that speaks to the needs of all communities in California, not just pay equity but also poverty, income support, paid leave for low-income workers, quality affordable childcare, etc.

[22:26] What about Noreen’s third major initiative? The Women’s Agenda Initiative is trying to take the wins from Stronger California and help other advocates in other States trying to pass similar laws. It includes a Women’s Workplace Digital Hub, strategies, and pitfalls as well as a rapid response policy team.

[27:33] Sarita asks Noreen to talk about how she got into this line of work, to begin with.

[29:59] Noreen believes that her dedication to advocating for all women is how she also advocates for herself, but it’s not always easy. … She shares a story about a panel where all the women were all modesty and she came out guns blazing: I earned it!

[32:11] Looking back on her career, is there a story that stands out as a prime example of a day in the life of Noreen?

[36:24] Sarita thanks Noreen for sharing so much of her stories and expertise on the Heels of Justice podcast and she signs off until next time.

That’s it for this episode of Heels of Justice; if you like the stories we’re telling, please visit our website. You can join our mailing list, learn more about our guests, and see what we have planned for the future.

You can also follow us on Twitter, on Instagram, and on Facebook.

Disclaimer: The opinions you have heard are ours or our guest’s alone. They’re not the opinions of our employers, or our clients, or our bosses, and not our husbands, kids or pets, or anyone else’s.

More about the Heels of Justice hosts Sarita Venkat, and Katherine Minarik

Heels of Justice on the Web

Heels of Justice on Twitter

Heels of Justice on Instagram

Heels of Justice on Facebook

Sarita Venkat on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on Twitter

Katherine Minarik at cleverbridge

More about our guest

Noreen Farrell at Equal Rights Advocate

Noreen Farrell on LinkedIn

Noreen Farrell on Twitter

Mentioned in this episode

Equal Rights Advocates

California Fair Pay Act

Justice For Migrant Workers — Monica Ramirez

Equal Pay Today

Paycheck Fairness Act

Stronger California Advocates Network

Women Donors Network

Nobel Foundation

van Löben Sels Foundation

Yale University

HOJ 021: Kerry McLean: Walking Precincts, Best Place to Work & Connectedness Jun 10, 2019

Welcome to Heels of Justice; these are the stories of women lawyers who are trailblazers in their field and paved the way for the rest of us.

Today, the Heels of Justice interview Kerry McLean, Senior Vice-President, General Counsel and Corporate Secretary at Intuit.

Kerry joined Intuit in 2006, most recently serving as Deputy General Counsel. Prior to joining Intuit, Ms. McLean spent over six years at Wind River Systems, Inc., most recently as the Director of Legal. She also worked as an associate at Howard, Rice, Nemerovski, Canady, Falk & Rabkin PC (now Arnold & Porter Kaye Scholer LLP).

Key Takeaways

[1:43] Sarita thanks Kerry for hosting her at the Intuit offices for the Heels of Justice podcast and asks her to talk about what led her to law.

[3:25] From politics to the law, how to choose? … Acceptance letters often accompany other great news!

[6:43] Going to law school with a baby, easier or harder than with a job? Kerry did both, learn to prioritize!

[9:38] Kerry summarizes her path from plaintiff’s law to where she is today — how people can change the course of your career.

[14:05] Sarita asks Kerry to talk about what Intuit does.

[14:58] Intuit is recognized as one of the best places to work consistently, what’s the secret? Kerry touches on the company’s core values.

[16:34] Kerry talks about how she became a GC and what she did when she took the reins.

[21:38] The three core principles — the ethos — Kerry came up with for the organization.

[23:58] Getting good at managing people, helping people how to figure out how to solve their own problems.

[25:51] How Kerry approaches professional development at Intuit: managerial development is key.

[27:36] Sarita asked one of Intuit’s employees what it is she loves about the company; there are three!

[29:17] Sarita’s husband’s question: what is Kerry’s goal for her employees?

[30:58] Kerry touches on some of the challenges she has faced as a woman in the industry.

[35:00] If Kerry had advice for her younger self, what would it be?

[36: 49] Has there been a moment in her career that Kerry has advocated for herself?

[37:29] Sarita asks Kerry what her mantra is and thanks her for sharing so much of her experience on the Heels of Justice podcast and she signs off until next time.

That’s it for this episode of Heels of Justice; if you like the stories we’re telling, please visit our website. You can join our mailing list, learn more about our guests, and see what we have planned for the future.

You can also follow us on Twitter, on Instagram, and on Facebook.

Disclaimer: The opinions you have heard are ours or our guest’s alone. They’re not the opinions of our employers, or our clients, or our bosses, and not our husbands, kids or pets, or anyone else’s.

Mentioned in this episode (chronological order)

Intuit

Skyline High School in Oakland

UC Davis

Planned Parenthood

Mary V. King

UC Hastings Law School

Arnold & Porter

Lewis and Clark

Wind River Systems

Stock Option Backdating Scandals

Sonoma County Habitat for Humanity Playhouses

Annie Khalid Hussein

More about the Heels of Justice hosts Sarita Venkat, and Katherine Minarik

Heels of Justice on the Web

Heels of Justice on Twitter

Heels of Justice on Instagram

Heels of Justice on Facebook

Sarita Venkat on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on Twitter

Katherine Minarik at cleverbridge

Personal stories (edited)

“I was at a very “proper” law firm where we wore stockings and skirt suits every day except for Friday. But when I went in-house it was just such a different environment. … it was a B2B software company with a very large sales force and for some reason, legal had to attend the sales conferences. At my first sales conference, they were doing some presentation and all of a sudden music starts and from all of the exits men come out dressed as pirates and women come out dressed as wenches and sit on men’s laps, singing about pirates and the company. … I remember telling my husband afterward that I just couldn’t believe this was what I was doing with my life.”

More about our guest

Kerry McLean at Intuit

Kerry McLean on LinkedIn

HOJ 020: Sarah Burstein: Design Patents, Tweeting the Law, & the Academic Meat Market Jun 06, 2019

Welcome to Heels of Justice; these are the stories of women lawyers who are trailblazers in their field and paved the way for the rest of us.

Today, the Heels of Justice interview Sarah Burstein who joined the University of Oklahoma College of Law faculty in 2012. She teaches Intellectual Property, Trademarks, Copyright, and Patents.

Prior to joining the faculty, Professor Burstein served as a law clerk to the Honorable Robert W. Pratt in the United States District Court for the Southern District of Iowa. She also worked as an intellectual property litigation associate in the Chicago office of Kirkland & Ellis LLP. Professor Burstein has a law degree from the University of Chicago and a B.A. in Art & Design from Iowa State University.

Key Takeaways

[0:55] Katherine welcomes Sarah Burstein to the Heels of Justice podcast and asks her to describe the path that took her to the law, from law school to academia.

[5:54] Sara shares how her idea to clerk to get perspective and insights on career opportunities was easier said than done for an art major.

[8:52] If you decide you want to be a law professor, the American Association of Law Schools has a huge hiring conference in DC; Sarah shares her own experience with it.

[10:09] What does Sarah teach at the University of Oklahoma? It’s not as boring as students think!

[11:17] Katherine asks how Sarah manages to navigate the technology side of things coming from an art background.

[12:20] Sarah’s particular expertise is design law, she explains a little bit of what it is, how she came to think it was an important area to focus on — and was made right by a billion dollar judgment! — and gives examples of real-world applications.

[15:21] Sarah was told by her mentor that no one would hire her on a design patent paper: most people thought of design patents in 2011 as the lunar mineral rights of IP.

[17:15] Katherine asks Sarah to share what the argument of the non-obviousness in design patents article she wrote was and she boils down the obviousness standard in the Law today.

[20:46] So in theory, for a company, design patents are an invaluable weapon against competitors.

[23:24] Katherine asks about Sarah’s social media presence for design law: @design_law and how it still surprises her to this day that so many people seem interested!

[27:43] How does Sarah overcome failure and does she have one example she remembers?

[30:21] What advice would Sarah give her undergraduate self or Law School self?

[32:09] thanks for sharing so much of her stories and expertise on the Heels of Justice podcast and she signs off until next time.

That’s it for this episode of Heels of Justice; if you like the stories we’re telling, please visit our website. You can join our mailing list, learn more about our guests, and see what we have planned for the future.

You can also follow us on Twitter, on Instagram, and on Facebook.

Disclaimer: The opinions you have heard are ours or our guest’s alone. They’re not the opinions of our employers, or our clients, or our bosses, and not our husbands, kids or pets, or anyone else’s.

More about the Heels of Justice hosts Sarita Venkat, and Katherine Minarik

Heels of Justice on the Web

Heels of Justice on Twitter

Heels of Justice on Instagram

Heels of Justice on Facebook

Sarita Venkat on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on Twitter

Katherine Minarik at cleverbridge

More about our guest

Sarah Burstein at the University of Oklahoma

@design_Law

Mentioned in this episode

Richard Serra Tilted Arc

University of Chicago

Kirkland & Ellis LLP

Chief Judge John Pratt

Chief Judge William Adams

Apple Inc. v. Samsung Electronics Co.

University of Oklahoma

Personal stories (edited)

“When I started in design patents I wanted to meet everyone and it was very exciting. I was taken aback when this one person was very hostile and nasty from the start; making jokes about me trying to destroy design, belittling me, they even went so far as to call to accuse me of taking money to sign an Amicus brief! He was impugning my professionalism in a very real way. Finally, I put my foot down and I said “you need to stop this, it isn’t funny. Maybe you don’t realize how offensive this is, but I’m not going to listen anymore.” Since then, he has stopped saying these things to my face — I understand he is still sending nasty stuff about me behind my back — but at least it has set some professional boundaries.”

HOJ 019: Neha Sampat: Belonging, Owning Your Value, & Uniquely Qualified May 29, 2019

Welcome to Heels of Justice; these are the stories of women lawyers who are trailblazers in their field and paved the way for the rest of us.

Today, the Heels of Justice interview Neha Sampat, CEO, founder, coach, and consultant at GenLead|BelongLab, where she focuses on building belonging and true inclusion. Through consulting, training, speaking, and writing, she helps organizations create peak-performance, inclusive teams by addressing hidden barriers to belonging, such as Imposter Syndrome and internalized bias, unconscious bias, and generational diversity.

Key Takeaways

[1:09] Sarita welcomes Neha to the Heels of Justice podcast and asks her to describe what she does at GenLead and how.

[2:14] Neha talks about what belonging means to her and how it means different things to different people, she adds an interesting caveat to the idea of “fitting in.”

[4:53] Neha explains how she hopes the concept of a belonging approach will replace the terms diversity and maybe even inclusion.

[8:02] Sarita talks about the evolution she has seen from diversity to inclusion and now to actually trying to make this inclusion “inclusive.”

[9:59] How does diversity make diverse recruitment easier? Neha shares the personal example of how she entered the law profession.

[13:25] Conversations Neha is having with lawyers about belonging show a disconnect between what individuals and organizations are prioritizing. Could there be a bit of intergenerational envy?!

[16:07] Sarita asks for tips on better aligning a company’s and individuals’ needs. Some more courageous firms have been doing belonging assessments; Neha explains what those are.

[18:20] Neha sees a few unique challenges for the law profession in the evolution towards belonging, one of which being the paramount reliance on data versus subjective experience. Sarita and Neha experience an important Aha moment.

[22:56] Neha touches on what we can all do to own our value and how impostor syndrome, though often denied, is really prevalent in the law.

24:45] Sarita roleplays with Neha to get a better sense of what it means to own your value. How are you uniquely qualified? How are knowledge gaps just an opportunity to grow?

[33:33] How did Neha come to be so ‘woke’? Sarita asks what path led her to where she is today.

[34:20] Sarita asks how Neha advocates for herself.

[38:43] Sarita thanks Neha for sharing so much of her experience on the Heels of Justice podcast and she signs off until next time.

That’s it for this episode of Heels of Justice; if you like the stories we’re telling, please visit our website. You can join our mailing list, learn more about our guests, and see what we have planned for the future.

You can also follow us on Twitter, on Instagram, and on Facebook.

Disclaimer: The opinions you have heard are ours or our guest’s alone. They’re not the opinions of our employers, or our clients, or our bosses, and not our husbands, kids or pets, or anyone else’s.

More about the Heels of Justice hosts Sarita Venkat, and Katherine Minarik

Heels of Justice on the Web

Heels of Justice on Twitter

Heels of Justice on Instagram

Heels of Justice on Facebook

Sarita Venkat on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on Twitter

Katherine Minarik at cleverbridge

More about our guest

Neha Sampat’s bio on GenLead

Neha Sampat on LinkedIn

Neha Sampat on Twitter

Neha’s gift for our listeners!

The GenLead|Belong Lab 5 week course on tackling Impostor Syndrome will open this summer, stay informed here.

Once registration opens, use the discount code HEELSOFJUSTICE for 15% off your registration fee for this 5 weeks of practice-based course to help you feel and perform better! Learn more here.

Additional resources on belonging and Impostor Syndrome

Neha’s email

Neha’s blog

Neha’s YouTube channel

BelongLab’s Twitter

Articles:

Stress and Impostor Syndrome

Stress and Confidence

Mentioned in this episode

GenLead|Belong Lab

Kind Community

Brobeck law firm

HOJ 018: Maja Hazell: D&I, Stars Are Made, & the Underdog May 23, 2019

Welcome to Heels of Justice; these are the stories of women lawyers who are trailblazers in their field and paved the way for the rest of us.

Today, the Heels of Justice interview Maja Hazell is the Global Head of Diversity & Inclusion at White & Case. She oversees the Firm’s global diversity and inclusion strategy as a member of the Business Services Leadership team.

She has led diversity and inclusion and career development initiatives for over twelve years, working for law firms, Fried Frank LLP, as their Director of Diversity and Inclusion, and Simpson Thacher & Bartlett LLP, as an associate. She also served as an Assistant Dean for Career Development at Pace University School of Law.

Key Takeaways

[0:30] Sarita welcomes Maja to the Heels of Justice podcast and asks her to talk about what being head of diversity and inclusion means.

[1:15] Considering the increasing resources being invested in diversity and inclusion practices in general, Maja shares the purpose of her role in the organization.

[2:47] Sarita asks Maja to break down what the good, the bad, and the ugly are; what is the state of diversity is in the legal profession.

[2:58] The good! There is an increase in awareness and the numbers are there in terms of interest for the profession; the question becomes how do they fare once they get in.

[4:25] The bad mainly resides in talent management practices; how do we assign and evaluate work but also in the “star-making” ethos that firms historically perpetuate.

[8:27] How do talent management practices and actionable feedback play out in real life? Maja talks about the necessary underpinnings on which a successful D&I practice hinges.

[10:33] The ugly is what keeps Maja up at night about the world: backlash.

[12:31] How does Maja approach people who do have that resistance to inclusion and diversity.

[14:26] Maja gives some examples of what she might advise a person to do — even when they’re afraid she’ll ask them to “act like a man”!

[18:06] Maja supports leaders for them to become better leaders and she is passionate about helping women navigate the professional environment.

[19:21] Sarita asks what drives Maja to do this work and how she discovered this passion to help the underdog when she first learned about the civil rights movement and the role lawyers played. She also shares some of her formative work experiences.

[28:07] Maja talks about how she advocates for herself: you need to get a good idea of who you are and what you bring to the table and don’t be too attached to the outcome.

[30:57] Sarita asks Maja what her mantra is and thanks her for sharing so much of her experience on the Heels of Justice podcast and she signs off until next time.

That’s it for this episode of Heels of Justice; if you like the stories we’re telling, please visit our website. You can join our mailing list, learn more about our guests, and see what we have planned for the future.

You can also follow us on Twitter, on Instagram, and on Facebook.

Disclaimer: The opinions you have heard are ours or our guest’s alone. They’re not the opinions of our employers, or our clients, or our bosses, and not our husbands, kids or pets, or anyone else’s.

More about the Heels of Justice hosts Sarita Venkat, and Katherine Minarik

Heels of Justice on the Web

Heels of Justice on Twitter

Heels of Justice on Instagram

Heels of Justice on Facebook

Sarita Venkat on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on Twitter

Katherine Minarik at cleverbridge

More about our guest

Maja Hazell at White & Case

Maja Hazell on LinkedIn

Maja Hazell on Twitter

Personal Stories (edited)

“I was showing up for a huge diligence trip on a matter in Minnesota; at the airport, I saw someone who was clearly a rep for the client so I introduced myself saying I was really excited to work on the case, and this unfriendly man looked me up and down and said “Oh! You’re from this firm?... Is anyone else coming?” — Clearly he thought a lawyer from a white shoe, 100-year-plus law firm could not possibly be a little black girl from the Bronx, and he didn’t feel the need to hide his reaction — I was so deflated and felt so awful that when I went back to the hotel I called my assigned partner-mentor and I told him what happened, he replied “Listen Maja, he’s an a**hole, you’re there to do a job and I know you, you are going to be great at that job.” He just affirmed me and built me back up.”

HOJ 017: Ruby Zefo: Privacy, Leaps of Faith, & When Uber Called May 20, 2019

Welcome to Heels of Justice; these are the stories of women lawyers who are trailblazers in their field and paved the way for the rest of us.

Today, the Heels of Justice interview Ruby Zefo, Chief Privacy Officer at Uber.

Before joining Uber, Ruby A. Zefo served as Vice President of Law and Policy Group and as Associate General Counsel and Chief Privacy and Security Counsel at Intel Corporation. She began her in-house career at Sun Microsystems.

Key Takeaways

[1:23] Katherine welcomes Ruby Zefo to the Heels of Justice podcast and asks her to talk about what led her to law.

[4:28] Ruby shares her experience of law school and why her heart was set on litigation.

[5:31] Katherine asks Ruby how pursuing a trial law career was different for her as a woman.

[7:25] Ruby left litigation in 1996, and talks us through how she was poached from her firm!

[9:02] Katherine asks what the challenges of that firm in-house role were.

[10:04] What drove Ruby’s journey from IP to privacy?

[13:03] Ruby describes her 15 years at Intel as well as her favorite projects.

[15:13] Katherine asks when and how, through all this experience, her focus began to switch towards privacy and security.

[18:25] Ruby shares how managerial support is critical when diving head first into unknown waters.

[21:23] Ruby describes the privacy law changes she has seen in the past 10 years as well as the coming challenges in the field.

[23:21] On AI and its implications as well as the way increasing public interest in privacy affects communication needs.

[26:06] What feedback would Ruby give legislators in terms of privacy notice regulation.

[27:21] Ruby shares a failure she feels she repeated and the steps she took to overcome that experience.

[33:19] Tangible advice about how to advocate for yourself.

[38:39] Katherine asks Ruby what advice she would give to her younger self.

[41:52] Katherine thanks Ruby for sharing so much of her experience on the Heels of Justice podcast and she signs off until next time.

That’s it for this episode of Heels of Justice; if you like the stories we’re telling, please visit our website. You can join our mailing list, learn more about our guests, and see what we have planned for the future.

You can also follow us on Twitter, on Instagram, and on Facebook.

Disclaimer: The opinions you have heard are ours or our guest’s alone. They’re not the opinions of our employers, or our clients, or our bosses, and not our husbands, kids or pets, or anyone else’s.

Mentioned in this episode (chronological order)

Jaws

Sun Microsystems

Intel

More about the Heels of Justice hosts Sarita Venkat, and Katherine Minarik

Heels of Justice on the Web

Heels of Justice on Twitter

Heels of Justice on Instagram

Heels of Justice on Facebook

Sarita Venkat on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on Twitter

Katherine Minarik at cleverbridge

Personal stories (edited)

“An executive who had known me for a number of years said to me, ‘How are you going to do that?’ And I told him that what would really help me is if he were to say, “I don’t know how you’re going to do this, but I know what you’re capable of and so I have every confidence you’ll figure it out!’ He turned beet red and told me I was absolutely right and from there he was one of my biggest supporters. I feel you can have those conversations when you’ve known people a while, and have a trusted environment. Call them out if they’re not being helpful in your career development and they don’t have any reason to be doubtful.”

More about our guest

Ruby Zefo on LinkedIn

Ruby Zefo on Twitter

HOJ 016: Bonus Episode: Sarita & Katherine May 01, 2019

The hosts reflect on the last few interviews, in which they discovered stories of some incredibly bold women. They all had very different paths in the law but one thing in common: they all spoke up, persisted, and did one bold thing to move the profession forward.

HOJ 015: Kalpana Kotagal: The Oscars, Inclusion Riders, & Building Power Apr 22, 2019

Welcome to Heels of Justice; these are the stories of women lawyers who are trailblazers in their field and paved the way for the rest of us.

Today, the Heels of Justice interview Kalpana Kotagal, Partner at Cohen Milstein, a member of the firm’s Civil Rights & Employment practice group, and Chair of the firm’s Hiring and Diversity Committee. Ms. Kotagal plays an active role in the investigation and development of new matters for the Civil Rights & Employment practice group. Ms. Kotagal is a co-author of the “Inclusion Rider,” referenced by Oscar-winning actress Frances McDormand in her 2018 Best Actress acceptance speech.

Key Takeaways

[1:20] Katherine welcomes Kalpana to the Heels of Justice podcast and asks her to talk about what led her to law.

[4:22] From steadfastly wanting to be a class action litigator to becoming a class action litigator, were there any moments of doubt? Kalpana shares her call back week of uncertainty.

[6:44] Kalpana shares her clerkship experience and learning about the tradition and meaning of lawyering as well as the importance of a rich personal life.

[08:36] How Kalpana’s practice started and evolved at Cohen Milstein, from antitrust law to civil rights and employment practice.

[10:55] On the connection between gender and sexual discrimination in the workplace.

[14:19] Who is Rose Schneiderman and why is her story so meaningful?

[17:30] Kalpana talks about the barriers she faces in her practice, pervasive examples being employment NDA’s, class waivers, or independent contractor issue. Katherine asks which of the issues listed would have the most impact if it was fixed immediately.

[21:57] Here is an unlikely question for Heels of Justice Podcast: Katherine asks Kalpana about the 2018 Oscars.

[26:39] And if someone wants to use the Inclusion Rider, how does one go about it?

[39:20] Kalpana talks about being thrust in the spotlight, the remarkable opportunities to have and be a voice for others as well as becoming a target for backlash and how she chooses to deal with the lows that come with this kind of exposure.

[33:28] Failure isn’t personal: it’s part of the work, it is different from loss and it will always be a learning opportunity, Kalpana shares how she pulls through her own failures.

[39:48] Would Kalpana have any advice for her young self?

[41:06] Katherine thanks Kalpana for sharing so much of her experience on the Heels of Justice podcast and she signs off until next time.

That’s it for this episode of Heels of Justice; if you like the stories we’re telling, please visit our website. You can join our mailing list, learn more about our guests, and see what we have planned for the future.

You can also follow us on Twitter, on Instagram, and on Facebook.

Disclaimer: The opinions you have heard are ours or our guest’s alone. They’re not the opinions of our employers, or our clients, or our bosses, and not our husbands, kids or pets, or anyone else’s.

Mentioned in this episode (chronological order)

Cohen Milstein

The Honorable Betty Binns Fletcher

William Fletcher

Title 7

EEOC — Select Task Force on the Study of Harassment in the Workplace

USC Annenberg School for Communication and Journalism’s Inclusion Initiative

Fanshen Cox DiGiovanni

Pearl Street Films

Frances McDormand at the 2018 Oscars

Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. v. Dukes

Justice Antonin Scalia

More about the Heels of Justice hosts Sarita Venkat, and Katherine Minarik

Heels of Justice on the Web

Heels of Justice on Twitter

Heels of Justice on Instagram

Heels of Justice on Facebook

Sarita Venkat on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on Twitter

Katherine Minarik at cleverbridge

Personal stories (edited)

“I really spent the bulk of my career advocating for workers, and with my two colleagues, I had been in the process of working on the inclusion rider — a contractual tool that would allow influential people in Hollywood to approve hiring practices on projects they were working on. In the months before the Oscars, we’d been working behind the scenes with agents and lawyers and talking about this project in presentations and in one of those presentations was Frances McDormand’s agent. Frances heard about the inclusion rider and when she won the Oscar, she got up on the stage and at the end of her acceptance speech she said, “I have two words to leave with you: Inclusion Rider.” All of a sudden, the project was stratospheric, everyone was asking what it was and how it could be used.”

More about our guest

Kalpana Kotagal’s bio at Cohen Milstein

HOJ 014: Claire Huffstetler: Commander, Victims' Advocate, & Surface Warfare Apr 15, 2019

Welcome to Heels of Justice; these are the stories of women lawyers who are trailblazers in their field and paved the way for the rest of us.

Today, the Heels of Justice interview, Commander Temperance C. Huffstetler (“Claire”), is an attorney in the United States Navy Judge Advocate General’s Corps. She currently serves as the Victims’ Legal Counsel for Naval District Washington. LCDR Huffstetler was commissioned as a naval officer in May 2002 and served as a Surface Warrior Officer in a variety of operational roles until 2007, when she entered law school through the Navy’s Law Education Program. After graduating from law school in 2010, she completed Naval Justice School in Newport, RI. In her first tour as a Judge Advocate, LCDR Huffstetler served at the Washington Navy Yard in Washington, D.C. and the U.S. Naval Academy in Annapolis, Maryland, where she practiced as a criminal defense litigator, legal assistance attorney, and military disability attorney. She was then assigned as Command Judge Advocate for Naval Station Guantanamo Bay in Cuba. From 2014 to 2016, LCDR Huffstetler served as the Command Judge Advocate aboard three nuclear aircraft carriers, providing legal advice regarding military justice, operational law, fiscal law, international law, the law of the sea, and administrative law.

Key Takeaways

[:35] Sarita welcomes Claire Huffstetler, to the Heels of Justice podcast.

[1:38] Claire talks about who her services are meant for as well as what exactly being a JAG entails, day to day.

[4:06] Where is military law situated in the spectrum of victim’s right as opposed to say, civilian law? And why would there be a difference?

[7:46] How is the Victims’ Legal Counsel practice evolving in the courts? “Unfortunately, we’re still behind the bar!”

[8:57] Sarita asks if there has been any evolution or changes in Claire’s work in the context of the ‘Me Too’ movement.

[12:37] Claire gives some tangible practice pointers on how to best defend victims, for attorneys looking to do more in victims advocacy.

[17:14] How does Claire deal with the very real emotional aspects of this line of work?

[19:11] Vicarious trauma is real.

[21:50] Sarita asks what Claire wanted to be as a child, and how her path eventually took her to the Military and military law.

[24:55] Sarita opens a parenthesis and asks Claire to paint a picture of what life is like on a naval carrier! And what about being stationed in Guam?

[27:55] The most interesting place to practice? Imagine a tie between an aircraft carrier and Guantanamo Bay … Let’s challenge the image we have of Guantanamo, you will be surprised!

[33:04] Sarita asks what Claire’s biggest challenges as a woman and as a professional in the Navy?

[39:36] Sarita asks what Claire’s mantra is and thanks her for sharing so much of her experience on the Heels of Justice podcast and she signs off until next time.

That’s it for this episode of Heels of Justice; if you like the stories we’re telling, please visit our website. You can join our mailing list, learn more about our guests, and see what we have planned for the future.

You can also follow us on Twitter, on Instagram, and on Facebook.

Disclaimer: The opinions you have heard are ours or our guest’s alone. They’re not the opinions of our employers, or our clients, or our bosses, and not our husbands, kids or pets, or anyone else’s.

Mentioned in this episode (chronological order)

U.S. Navy

Civilian VS. Military criminal court

Navy Victims’ Legal Counsel Program

National Crime Victim Law Institute (NCVLI)

Network for Victim Recovery of DC (NVRDC)

Vicarious trauma

Army ROTC Scholarship

Port Operations Officer Guam

Navy scholarship for law school

G.I. Bill

Visit, board, search, and seizure

More about the Heels of Justice hosts Sarita Venkat, and Katherine Minarik

Heels of Justice on the Web

Heels of Justice on Twitter

Heels of Justice on Instagram

Heels of Justice on Facebook

Sarita Venkat on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on Twitter

Katherine Minarik at cleverbridge

Personal stories (edited)

“In Guantanamo Bay, I was the GC for the commander of the base, which is a small town with about five thousand residents; the detainment facility is a separate entity. So we have community housing, churches, community centers, gyms, swimming pools, and restaurants! The base supports the ships that come for all around South America and the Caribbean, it’s an important foothold and anti-drug operation and a lot of migrants pass through. There is also a body of foreign national laborers to support the base, so I never had a day that I didn’t hear a new issue … Most of them were: how does this comport with international law? In most bases, there are memorandums of agreement with the host nation, and that controls the application of the law: what laws we subscribe to on the base, and how our service members are treated if they go out in town and do something wrong. But in Guantanamo Bay, there’s no host nation relationship, so it was a create-your-own-adventure-type situation!”

“I was the GC on an aircraft carrier. Imagine that you are in a grey steel windowless box — kind of like a freight elevator car — and a few floors above your office there is an airport landing strip and fighter jets are taking off and landing. The force and the sound is reverberating through the walls, the floors, the ceiling, your body, rattling your coffee mug across your desk. Then imagine that you have a nuclear reactor a few floors under your office. In between the airport, your office and the nuclear reactor you have a hotel that houses 3 to 6 thousand people with a 24h restaurant, hospital, church, fitness center and all the office spaces to support that, and you’re floating…”

More about our guest

Claire Huffstetler on LinkedIn

HOJ 013: Michelle Fang: 170 GCs, "Go to Siena," & Startup Law Apr 08, 2019

Welcome to Heels of Justice; these are the stories of women lawyers who are trailblazers in their field and paved the way for the rest of us.

Today, the Heels of Justice interview Michelle Fang, the Chief Legal Officer of Turo.

Key Takeaways

[:41] Katherine welcomes Michelle Fang, CLO of Turo, to the Heels of Justice podcast.

[1:09] Michelle talks a bit about where she grew up, her college years in communications and how an infamous class veered her path towards Law.

[4:19] Katherine asks what her experience of Law School was like and what positions she held after graduating.

[6:15] Michelle delves a bit deeper into her expansive experience with eBay as well as the types of legal issues they would face.

[8:08] Katherine ask what was it like as an in-house counsel making the decision to take a big case to trial

[9:00] Katherine asks Michelle why she was so successful climbing the ranks at the organizations she worked for.

[13:58] Has Michelle faced any moment in her career where she was treated differently because she is a woman?

[17:11] Michelle shares the story of how she made the decision to leave eBay for Turo.

[19:43] What is Turo and how has her legal team grown since she started there? Michelle shares some of the biggest challenges she has faced in the first three years.

[22:07] On Michelle’s role in the gender diversity in law firms letter — signed by 170 GCs — that made the rounds.

[26:57] Katherine asks what kind of response Michelle has had from that letter?

[29:40] Why is this issue of diversity representation so important to Michelle? And what comes after the letter: Michelle is building a list of best practices for GCs with experts in the field.

[30:49] And what comes after the letter? Michelle breaks down her current three-phase process for building a knowledge base on diversity and inclusion, listing best practices, and measuring success over the years.

[33:16] Katherine asks if Michelle has a story to share about facing failure.

[38:45] What advice would Michelle give her young self? Go to Italy!

[40:035] Katherine thanks Michelle for sharing so much of her experience on the Heels of Justice podcast and she signs off until next time.

That’s it for this episode of Heels of Justice; if you like the stories we’re telling, please visit our website. You can join our mailing list, learn more about our guests, and see what we have planned for the future.

You can also follow us on Twitter, on Instagram, and on Facebook.

Disclaimer: The opinions you have heard are ours or our guest’s alone. They’re not the opinions of our employers, or our clients, or our bosses, and not our husbands, kids or pets, or anyone else’s.

Mentioned in this episode (chronological order)

Turo

UCLA

MacNeil/Lehrer Report

Tiffany (NJ) Inc. v. eBay Inc.

Communications Decency Act

Mattel

Hot Wheels

Relay Rides (Now Turo)

Diversity lab

More about the Heels of Justice, Sarita Venkat, and Katherine Minarik

Heels of Justice on the Web

Heels of Justice on Twitter

Heels of Justice on Instagram

Heels of Justice on Facebook

Sarita Venkat on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on Twitter

Katherine Minarik at cleverbridge

Michelle’s personal stories (edited)

“I took my client’s work very seriously when I worked at a law firm, and I really threw myself into the cases. But when I went in-house, I did find that when it’s your company — and your colleagues are counting on you, the CEO is counting on you and you have to look them in the eye and explain the impact of these decisions and of these rulings — in some ways, the stresses are larger.”

“My goal was to be the GC of a startup so I actually wanted to move into a non-litigation role — I didn't think anyone was going to give me a chance to do that if all I’ve ever done is litigation — but I could not for the life of me get anyone to interview me in-house for anything other than litigation. I told my GC at eBay: ‘I need to do something other than litigation, and I’m going to do that this year. I hope that that’s at eBay and I hope that an opportunity will present itself, but if it doesn't, I’m going to find another role in the coming year.’ I had made my wishes known and I had proven myself in the role that I had, so when a role leading the IP team opened up, it was offered to me.”

“After coming back from maternity leave for a few weeks, my new boss gave me a very underwhelming review: it was a huge blow and no matter how much I tried to change his mind in the months after, nothing would do. So I had to decide what was important for me in this role — what my boss thought of me, or the work that I did to support and enable my team to do a really good job. That failed review let me reshift my focus from external validation to the key elements of the role. It turns out that when I stopped trying to prove myself to him and focused on the work, his perception of me began to change and turned completely around. So it helped me internalize this idea that the focus needs to be the work, not what people think of you.”

More about Michelle Fang

Michelle Fang at Turo

Michelle Fang on LinkedIn

HOJ 012: Noreen Krall & Mallun Yen: Women, Friendship & Business Apr 02, 2019

Welcome to Heels of Justice; these are the stories of women lawyers who are trailblazers in their field and paved the way for the rest of us.

Today’s episode is a very special live recording of a conference held in DC by ChIPs and a non-profit whose mission is to advance and connect women working in technology, law, and policy.

Mallun Yen was Vice-President of intellectual property at Cisco, launched RPX Corporation and is now the co-founder and COO of SaaStr, the world’s largest community of software as a service business executives.

Noreen Krall is Vice President and Chief Litigation Counsel for Apple Inc. and is responsible for all aspects of Apple’s global commercial and intellectual property litigation. Prior to joining Apple, Ms. Krall was the Vice President and Chief IP Counsel for Sun Microsystems, providing legal counsel over all facets of Sun’s intellectual property assets and leading Sun’s engagement on intellectual property law and policy issues. She started her career as an engineer at IBM.

Key Takeaways

[:46] Sarita introduces Mallun Yen and Norre Krall, two of the ChIPs organization founders.

[1:34] Katherine and Sarita take a few minutes to highlight some special aspect of both of their guests.

[5:04] How did Noreen and Mallun become friends and how did this friendship turn into ChIPs?

[9:25] Katherine asks Mallun and Noreen what concrete steps can be taken to mitigate the apparent in difficulty women seem to have shifting from friendship to business relationships with other women.

[16:51] Is there a mindset shift required for women to receive a business pitch from other women?

[18:31] In closing, Sarita asks what Mallun and Noreen’s vision is for ChIPs going forward.

That’s it for this episode of Heels of Justice; if you like the stories we’re telling, please visit our website. You can join our mailing list, learn more about our guests, and see what we have planned for the future.

You can also follow us on Twitter, on Instagram, and on Facebook.

Disclaimer: The opinions you have heard are ours or our guest’s alone. They’re not the opinions of our employers, or our clients, or our bosses, and not our husbands, kids or pets, or anyone else’s.

Mentioned in this episode (chronological order)

“How friendships hold women back in their careers — and what they can do about it,” by Mallun Yen

Apple Inc.

Sun Microsystems

IBM

More about the Heels of Justice, Sarita Venkat, and Katherine Minarik

Heels of Justice on the Web

Heels of Justice on Twitter

Heels of Justice on Instagram

Heels of Justice on Facebook

Sarita Venkat on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on Twitter

Katherine Minarik at cleverbridge

More about Mallun Yen

Mallun Yen on the ChIPs website

Mallun Yen on LinkedIn

Mallun Yen on Twitter

More about Noreen Krall

Noreen Krall on the ChIPs website

Noreen Krall on Twitter

HOJ 011: Juanita Brooks: “Little Mexican Girl,” Art Of Trial, & We’re Crying Mar 28, 2019

Welcome to Heels of Justice; these are the stories of women lawyers who are trailblazers in their field and paved the way for the rest of us.

Today, the Heels of Justice interview Juanita Brooks, one of the foremost trial lawyers in the country. She is a Principal in Fish & Richardson’s San Diego office and a member of the firm’s Management Committee. In 2016, Law360 named Ms. Brooks an “Icon of IP” for her “skill at trying complicated patent cases without getting bogged down in the technical weeds” and said she is a “jury whisperer.” She has also been dubbed “a titan of the patent bar,” having served as lead counsel in multiple trials each year and handling more than 150 trials throughout her career.

Key Takeaways

[:33] Sarita welcomes Juanita Brooks — a titan of the patent bar, the Jury Whisperer — to the Heels of Justice podcast.

[1:18] What pushed Juanita to law, and what path led her to become a trial lawyer.

[2:37] Sarita asks why Juanita felt out of place at Yale.

[4:15] On an encouraging professor.

[6:32] Sarita asks if Juanita’s mother was proud, is proud…

[7:54] In the end, how was her experience at Yale?

[9:16] Sarita asks what Juanita did after Law school?

[10:08] Juanita talks about her first federal case trial, two weeks after being sworn in.

[11:15] 150 trials are more than enough to become a master storyteller. Sarita asks Juanita to paint a picture of a very emotional story she had to tell in court.

[18:05] Juanita explains the three components of persuasion that she has used for trial preparation for a long time.

[21:34] Sarita asks if Juanita experienced a loss that changed the way she approached trials.

[24:44] So how does Juanita develop her strategy for a trial? Listen in to get an in-depth, detailed breakdown of her process.

[32:41] What about once the trial has begun?

[35:30 ] Sarita asks how Juanita cracks her closing.

[36:46] “You mean ‘how do you not die when you’re suffering from verdict death?’”

[37:58] Sarita asks if there was ever a moment Juanita advocated for herself?

[40:01] Was there ever a time when being a woman or a latina woman been a challenge or an advantage for Juanita?

[43:14] Having received so many, what award is Juanita the proudest of.

[45:08] Sarita thanks Juanita for sharing so much of her experience on the Heels of Justice podcast and she signs off until next time.

That’s it for this episode of Heels of Justice; if you like the stories we’re telling, please visit our website. You can join our mailing list, learn more about our guests, and see what we have planned for the future.

You can also follow us on Twitter, on Instagram, and on Facebook.

Disclaimer: The opinions you have heard are ours or our guest’s alone. They’re not the opinions of our employers, or our clients, or our bosses, and not our husbands, kids or pets, or anyone else’s.

Mentioned in this episode (chronological order)

Yale Law School

Thomas Swan Barrister’s Union — Yale Law

Moot Court

Judge Edward Bennett William

San Diego State University

International Council on World Affairs

Harvard Law School

Federal Defender Office in San Diego

Ponce

Ortiz

Sanchez

Duress defense

Narcos

Enrique S. “Kiki” Camarena Salazar

Rafael Caro Quintero

1954 speech by Judge Simon H. Rifkind — “The Romance Discoverable in Patent Cases”

DeLorean Motor Company

Dailies (court transcript)

California State Bar Trial Lawyer Hall of Fame

More about the Heels of Justice, Sarita Venkat, and Katherine Minarik

Heels of Justice on the Web

Heels of Justice on Twitter

Heels of Justice on Instagram

Heels of Justice on Facebook

Sarita Venkat on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on Twitter

Katherine Minarik at cleverbridge

Juanita’s personal stories (edited)

“Many moons ago, I represented a gentleman by the name of John DeLorean who made this motor car called the DeLorean that was in back to the future. I represented John in a case where he was accused of embezzling 17 million dollars from the DeLorean Motor Company, and sure enough, the government could show that the money did go from the DeLorean Motor Company to this holding company, and from this holding company to John’s personal bank account. Our defense was that the money was actually a loan from Lotus Cars — a privately held company run by Colin Chapman — that had been doing R&D on the DeLorean car. The problem was that Colin Chapman was dead, and there were no loan documents. How are we going to convince a jury that someone would loan 17 million dollars on a handshake? Without even an IOU? Well back in those days, there were two TV shows that were very popular, one was called Dynasty and one was called Dallas and each of them had lead characters (Blake Carrington and J.R. Ewing) and either of those characters would have absolutely loaned 17 million dollars on a handshake! So we thought that jurors who watch those shows would get it, and be more open to it!”

More about Juanita Brooks

Juanita Brooks bio on Fish & Richardson

California State Bar Trial Lawyer Hall of Fame Induction

HOJ 010: Bonus Episode: Sarita & Katherine Mar 25, 2019

Welcome to Heels of Justice; these are the stories of women lawyers who are trailblazers in their field and paved the way for the rest of us.

Today, Katherine and Sarita wanted to take a moment to reflect on how their interviews with such amazing guests have resonated with them so far, both personally and professionally.

Key Takeaways

[:22] Katherine and Sarita welcome listeners to this second special episode of the Heels of Justice podcast and explain what about these discussions resonated with them the most.

[:39] Sarita begins the conversation by asking Katherine how she felt interviewing Dahlia Lithwick.

[2:57 ] Sarita quotes Dahlia when she spoke of RBG, and your hosts discuss the nature of RBG outside of the meme she’s become as well as celebrity culture.

[7:08] Sarita wants people who don’t know Kathi to understand just how dynamic she is in the breadth of her involvement.

[8:20] Katherine appreciated Kathi’s message to find ways to add value, to keep learning to be better at what you do.

[10:32] Sarita shares the moments when she did feel like she couldn’t do it all, and how Kathi’s message not to compare yourself to others and to do everything you can that makes you happy.

[12:50] Katherine loved how Kathi took the comments without ego and took these opportunities to learn and grow herself as well as try to better support her female colleagues.

[15:14] Katherine also shares her positively changed impression of Kathi after the interview!

[16:25] Sarita admits to not having read Andie’s book, but in the light of the interview, sees the real-life benefit in adding it to her list!

[18:50] Katherine underscores the importance of the research and work that went into Andie’s book.

[19:25] You hosts discuss diverging points of view regarding the extra considerations women have to factor in.

[22:03] Both Kathi and Andy talked about self-evaluation!

[22:59] Before signing off, Sarita and Katherine invite listeners to connect with the Heels of Justice to propose future guests, and discuss episodes.

That’s it for this episode of Heels of Justice; if you like the stories we’re telling, please visit our website. You can join our mailing list, learn more about our guests, and see what we have planned for the future.

You can also follow us on Twitter, on Instagram, and on Facebook.

Disclaimer: The opinions you have heard are ours or our guest’s alone. They’re not the opinions of our employers, or our clients, or our bosses, and not our husbands, kids or pets, or anyone else’s.

Mentioned in this episode (chronological order)

Justice Sonia Sotomayor

Sandra Day O’Connor

Harry Potter

Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg

More about the Heels of Justice, Sarita Venkat, and Katherine Minarik

Heels of Justice on the Web

Heels of Justice on Twitter

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Sarita Venkat on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on Twitter

Katherine Minarik at Cleverbridge

HOJ 009: Andie Kramer: Jockstrap Jokes, Breaking Through Bias, and Goldilocks Mar 20, 2019

Welcome to Heels of Justice; these are the stories of women lawyers who are trailblazers in their field and paved the way for the rest of us.

Today, the Heels of Justice interview Andrea (Andie) S. Kramer, author and Partner in the international law firm of McDermott Will & Emery LLP, which was just listed as one of the “10 Best Big Law Firms for Female Attorneys.” Andie is head of the firm’s Financial Products, Trading, and Derivatives Group, and is the founding chair of the firm’s Gender Diversity Committee and currently serves as its co-chair. She has served on both her firm’s Management Committee and Compensation Committee. In these roles, she became deeply concerned about the disparities in the pace and extent of women’s and men’s career achievements.

Key Takeaways

[:29] Katherine welcomes Andie Kramer, lawyer and author to the Heels of Justice podcast.

[1:12] How did Andie end up writing her first book on gender dynamics in law firms?

[3:19] What was the response Andie got to the Self-evaluation do’s and Don’ts a piece she wrote about 12 years ago?

[4:29] Were there any changes in self-evaluations by women after the training was initially offered at her firm?

[6:23] Once women start talking about themselves as rockstars, is there anything else that needs to be done to ensure that message is received positively?

[8:35] What is the Goldilocks dilemma?

[9:20] Katherine asks for some very pragmatic advice on how to navigate a boardroom interruption (we also learn there was a necessity to create a tip sheet for this specific issue!).

[11:45] Doesn’t this whole “tips and advice for women” just generate more work for women just to stand shoulder to shoulder with their peers?

[14:08] Katherine asks Andie to describe benevolent sexism, as it was an issue she always knew about but never managed to express clearly.

[16:50] How are women to respond to benevolent sexism?

[18:07] Andie shares an outrageous anecdote from her book.

[20:34] What led Andie to become a lawyer?

[24:11] Katherine asks Andie to share a moment when she advocated for herself.

[27:33] How about a time when Andie experienced failure? And what about the recovery from such a failure?

[32:30] Katherine asks if Andie has advice for women just out of law schools, in terms of picking a firm. Alternatively, what can law firms do to ensure a higher rate of senior women within their ranks?

[33:55] What about advice Andie would have for her younger self?

[35:05] Katherine asks Andie what the biggest risk she took was.

[36:30] And finally, what motivates Andie to write when she could be spending this time just being the awesome lawyer that she is?

[37:15] Katherine thanks Andie for participating on the Heels of Justice podcast, and she signs off until next time.

That’s it for this episode of Heels of Justice; if you like the stories we’re telling, please visit our website. You can join our mailing list, learn more about our guests and see what we have planned for the future.

You can also follow us on Twitter, on Instagram, and on Facebook.

Disclaimer: The opinions you have heard are ours or our guest’s alone. They’re not the opinions of our employers, or our clients, or our bosses, and not our husbands, kids or pets or anyone else’s.

Mentioned in this episode (chronological order)

McDermott Will & Emery

Book: Breaking Through Bias: Communication Techniques for Women to Succeed at Work, by Andrea S. Kramer and Alton B. Harris

The Goldilocks Dilemma

Tip sheet on interruptions

Impression management

Benevolent sexism

Title IX

Book: It’s Not You It’s the Workplace: Women’s Conflict at Work and the Bias that Built It, by Andrea S. Kramer and Alton B. Harris

More about the Heels of Justice, Sarita Venkat, and Katherine Minarik

Heels of Justice on the Web

Heels of Justice on Twitter

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Heels of Justice on Facebook

Sarita Venkat on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on Twitter

Katherine Minarik at cleverbridge

Andie’s personal stories (edited)

“I was on our compensation committee and what I found was that the women would write their self-evaluations very modestly: ‘I was on the ABC team and I worked with Katherine, and so, and so, and so, and so, and so, and so, and so, and so, and so…’ but the men would write their self-evaluations ‘I’m a total rock star and I saved the world for democracy, and I’m everything!’ It struck me because who do you think is going to make more money? The very first piece that I wrote was about self-evaluation do’s and don’ts as to what women need to do in order to advocate for themselves.”

“I was probably 13 years old and my social studies class went to the criminal court building and we saw the defense putting on a murder trial and seeing a piece of a murder trial from the defense side obviously makes you think the person is innocent. So I was going to find a way to save the world. I told my parents I was going to be a lawyer, and they knew a lawyer, so they asked him if he would take me to lunch and give me career advice — this is before women were really admitted to law school in any numbers (the ’60s) — so this man takes me to lunch and proceeds to spend the entire time telling me that I did not want to be a lawyer because nobody likes lady lawyers. ‘Lady lawyers are lonely, they don’t have any friends; I would never have a family, I would never get married; no one would ever love me!’ and that was his lunch. … When he assured me that it was a terrible thing, I concluded that I was going to do it, and I could manage those things.”

More about Andrea S. Kramer

Andrea S. Kramer at McDermott Will & Emery

Andrea S. Kramer on LinkedIn

Andrea S. Kramer (Andie & Al) Mentoring

HOJ 008: Kathi Vidal: Apache Helicopter, Success at a Law Firm, & the Ask Mar 18, 2019

Welcome to Heels of Justice; these are the stories of women lawyers who are trailblazers in their field and paved the way for the rest of us.

In this episode, Sarita talks to Kathi Vidal from Winston and Strawn; as Managing Partner of the firm’s Silicon Valley office, she is one of the leading patent litigators in the country. Nationally recognized for trying high-profile, high-stakes, and high-tech patent disputes for the region’s leading companies, her experience covers a myriad of technologies, including semiconductors, telecommunications, circuits and systems, computers, software, Internet applications, and consumer products.

Key Takeaways

[:20] Sarita introduces Kathi Vidal, Managing Partner of Winston and Strawn’s Silicon Valley office — a woman whose name and achievements are well known, especially in the field of technology law — and asks her to break down what she does at her firm.

[1:38] Sarita asks Kathi to break down what diversity and inclusion, as well as disruptive technology, entail in her job description.

[3:40] Kathi talks a bit about where she grew up, and her “around the world” youth, which includes two important skills she learned: how to make friends and how to reset your focus, that still help her now.

[5:14] Sarita asks what High School was like; listen to Kathi’s amazing story of studying abroad with no set curriculum, which finally led to her entering college at 16!

[6:20] Kathi recounts part of her undergraduate journey from Physics and Mathematics to Electrical Engineering through the Edison Program — designing aircraft and rockets at GE aerospace!

[8:22] What is a nonlinear system?

[8:46] From Engineering to Law, how did this switch happen? And why Law? Kathi went back to the roots: what did she want to be when she was seven — the smartest lawyer alive, or a pro baseball player!

[12:23] Kathi touches on some core challenges she tackled when switching from Science to Law. … you have to memorize so much stuff and you can’t derive your answers!

[13:21] Sarita asks how Kathi started building her practice at Winston and Strawn and how she established herself even as a young lawyer.

[16:50] What is Prosecution-Laches?

[18:36] Are there any other steps to building a practice?

[19:52] Sarita highlights the fact that Kathi is really good with social media and if this was a conscious choice. Kathi explains how it was a driver in her diversity and inclusion practice.

[24:38] Kathi shares two moments in her career when she felt like she failed and what it taught her.

[32:06] Sarita asks if there was ever a moment when Kathi advocated for herself.

[35:53] Sarita asks Kathi what her personal mantra is and thanks her for coming on to the podcast and sharing her story and signs off until next time.

That’s it for this episode of Heels of Justice; if you like the stories we’re telling, please visit our website. You can join our mailing list, learn more about our guests and see what we have planned for the future.

You can also follow us on Twitter, on Instagram, and on Facebook.

Disclaimer: The opinions you have heard are ours or our guest’s alone. They’re not the opinions of our employers, or our clients, or our bosses, and not our husbands, kids or pets or anyone else’s.

Mentioned in this episode (chronological order)

Winston and Strawn

Azores

GE Aerospace

The Edison Engineering Development Program

Apache Helicopter

F16 aim guns

F18 aim guns

C-17 Transport (the control stick circuitry designed by Kathi is still in use!)

Prosecution-Laches

Jerome H. Lemelson

Semiconductors

Santa Clara University

Professor Donald L. Chisum

Karen Boyd — Turner Boyd

Invention disclosure

Brené Brown

Book: Women Don’t Ask: Negotiation and the Gender Divide, by Linda Babcock and Sara Laschever

Book: One Size Does Not Fit All

More about the Heels of Justice, Sarita Venkat, and Katherine Minarik

Heels of Justice on the Web

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Heels of Justice on Instagram

Heels of Justice on Facebook

Sarita Venkat on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on Twitter

Katherine Minarik at cleverbridge

More about today’s Heels of Justice guest, Kathi Vidal

Kathi’s profile on Winston and Strawn

Kathi’s LinkedIn

Kathi’s Twitter

Winston and Strawn’s LinkedIn

Winston and Strawn’s Facebook

Kathi Vidal’s personal stories (edited)

“I had a case that involved Lemelson and a patent relating to a semiconducting material, not a conductor like a metal that heat can go through and not an insulator like an oven that the heat can’t go through, but something in-between. His patent was developed in a way that made it look like he owned semiconductors! That was a hot issue at the time that I faced the Lemelson case, and instead of just focusing on what are the answers the client needed right now, I started developing CLE material, I started reading every case in that area so that I could have a more expansive knowledge base.”

“I realized although I had a patent trial really early in my career, that they’re somewhat few and far between, so what I did was I signed up to teach a course at Santa Clara University on patent law. So a number of nights a week I would stand up in front of people and have to teach them about patent law and teach them about the different examples in the case books. That gave me a real opportunity to develop as a lawyer, and from there I started getting speaking gigs and those gave me the opportunity to dig in deep on different topics and be on my feet, and have to answer questions quickly — which is exactly what you need to do in court — and again people get to know you.”

HOJ 007: Dahlia Lithwick: Supreme Court Press Corps, Quitting Law School, and When There Are Three Mar 11, 2019

Welcome to Heels of Justice; these are the stories of women lawyers who are trailblazers in their field and paved the way for the rest of us.

Today, the Heels of Justice interview Dahlia Lithwick bio to come by the client.

Key Takeaways

[:34] Katherine welcomes Dahlia Lithwick a writer and law journalist, to the Heels of Justice podcast.

[1:24] Katherine asks Dahlia when, how and why she became interested in the law.

[4:17] Did Dahlia end up following her interest in children’s advocacy policy through law school? And what happened after law school?

[5:44] Dahlia shares that she quit law school after her first year and why she went back.

[8:00] What does clerking “on and off” mean?

[9:48] On the sometimes jargony nature of legal writing, and the necessary humility in writing about the law for lay audience.

[15:12] “Read the briefs, translate the briefs, and write about what happened to the law.” There is no need for an ego.

[15:45] Is there something about women that makes more inclined to egoless work?

[21:19] The powerful effect of women role-modeling, and creating the ‘giants’ on whose shoulders future generations can stand.

[23:31] Katherine asks what has surprised Dahlia about the Supreme Court, or rather what might surprise us?

[26:09] On the real humans behind the memes and subordinating ego.

[32:00] Dahlia’s thoughts on the inner strengths that bring women into law in the face of celebrity culture and anger.

[34:50] The rewards of diligence, accuracy, and passionate commitment to truth.

[37:10] Katherine asks how Dahlia reconciles the idea that women are currently being the RBG of tomorrow and the stereotypical narratives about women being too mean or too aggressive.

[38:40] Is three the magic number?

[41:30] Katherine asks Dahlia if there ever was a moment when she advocated for herself.

[46:00] A moment of failure for Dahlia and the path she took to recover.

[49:25] A guy would do it, and your value is not your job!

[53:07] Katherine asks if Dahlia would have any advice for her law school self.

[57:49] Katherine thanks Dahlia for participating on the Heels of Justice podcast, and she signs off until next time.

That’s it for this episode of Heels of Justice, if you like the stories we’re telling, please visit our website. You can join our mailing list, learn more about our guests and see what we have planned for the future.

You can also follow us on Twitter, on Instagram, and on Facebook.

Disclaimer: The opinions you have heard are ours or our guest’s alone. They’re not the opinions of our employers, or our clients, or our bosses, and not our husbands, kids or pets or anyone else’s.

Mentioned in this episode (chronological order)

Slate

Stanford Law School

Michael Wald

Children’s Defense Fund

Procter Ralph Hug Jr.

Patty Hearst syndrome

John Roberts

Ruth Bader Ginsburg movie

Oprah Winfrey

Michelle Obama

Good and Mad: The Revolutionary Power of Women's Anger, by Rebecca Traister

Dr. Christine Blasey Hearing

Brett Kavanaugh hearing

Travel Ban strike down

Abortion Policy on teen migrants

Chaucer

Hillary Clinton

Microsoft trial

More about the Heels of Justice, Sarita Venkat, and Katherine Minarik

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Sarita Venkat on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on Twitter

Katherine Minarik at cleverbridge

Dahlia ’s personal stories (edited)

“When I was 12 years old, my mother gave me a clothing allowance and said ‘this is the amount of money you’re allowed to spend on clothes and when it’s gone, it’s gone so be prudent,’ and I hectored her for the entire year, like relentlessly; morning, noon and night, breakfast, lunch, and dinner. I just went at, her trying to re-litigate the amount.”

“The answer is to just have so many damn women at such high levels of achievement that you can’t say ooh, look at that weird girl anymore … It’s such a long haul answer to give you, and I think it’s going to require women also speaking out, writing the op-eds, pushing back and just being willing to say ‘not every time a woman speaks is she shrill, not every time a woman advocates for herself is she a bitch.’ Doing what I’ve sort of described as this massive team sport. Ruth Bader Ginsburg can be the coach, but we all have to be the players.”

More about Dahlia Lithwick

Dahlia Lithwick on Slate

More to come by clients

HOJ 006: "Bonus Episode: Sarita & Katherine" Mar 07, 2019

Welcome to Heels of Justice; these are the stories of women lawyers who are trailblazers in their field and paved the way for the rest of us.

Today, Katherine and Sarita wanted to take a moment to reflect on how their interviews with such amazing guests have resonated with them so far, both personally and professionally.

Key Takeaways

[:22] Katherine and Sarita welcome listeners to this special episode of the Heels of Justice podcast and explain why this discussion seemed necessary.

[1:22] Sarita asks Katherine her thoughts on what Anirma Gupta had to say, and what spoke to her most.

[3:05] Your co-hosts discuss flying taxis and “majority minorities” from the Sasha G. Rao interview, as well as zero-in on some favorite parts of this episode.

[8:47] On the recurring theme with some guests, of shifting networks.

[10:25] Katherine and Sarita marvel at the very human traits — disappointments and imposter syndrome — of the amazing Judge Diane Wood.

[13:24] Sarita finds a common thread weaving through the episodes, and it’s one that Katherine voiced in her own interview.

[15:43] The enormous importance of a supportive life partner.

[16:23] Before signing off, Sarita and Katherine invite listeners to connect with the Heels of Justice to propose future guests, and discuss episodes.

That’s it for this episode of Heels of Justice, if you like the stories we’re telling, please visit our website. You can join our mailing list, learn more about our guests and see what we have planned for the future.

You can also follow us on Twitter and on Instagram.

Disclaimer: The opinions you have heard are ours or our guest’s alone. They’re not the opinions of our employers, or our clients, or our bosses, and not our husbands, kids or pets or anyone else’s.

Mentioned in this episode (chronological order)

Anirma Gupta episode

Sasha G. Rao episode

Judge Diane Wood episode

Katherine Minarik episode

HOJ 005: Anirma Gupta: "Why Not?", Being a GC, & Comfort Zones Feb 25, 2019

Welcome to Heels of Justice; these are the stories of women lawyers who are trailblazers in their field and paved the way for the rest of us.

Today, the Heels of Justice interview Anirma Gupta, General Counsel at Tanium Inc., previously V.P. and Deputy General Counsel at Intuit and Attorney at Sun Microsystems. She worked at Sughrue Mion out of Georgetown Law School after obtaining her J.D. She also holds a Bachelor’s in electrical engineering from the University of Maryland.

You can find more information, as well as an extensive list of her awards in the “More About Anirma Gupta” section of these notes.

Key Takeaways

[:41] Sarita welcomes Anirma Gupta, one of the few female General Counsels in the country, to the Heels of Justice podcast.

[1:35] Where was Anirma born and where did she grow up? How was her experience growing up an immigrant?

[3:58] Anirma explains what she wanted to be when she grew up, and how it fit into what was expected!

[5:31] Sarita asks what led Anirma from electrical engineering to law.

[7:22] Did law school have a higher percentage of women than engineering? Anirma touches on how she tackled differences in the two fields.

[9:11] Sarita asks what drove Anirma’s career path, from Sughrue to Tanium.

[12:15] Anirma talks a bit about how mentors and advisors helped shape her career path and paints a picture of the time she made a very opportune choice at an inopportune time.

[16:48] What was Intuit like? What kept her there for 11 years?

[18:36] How did Anirma go about doing informational interviews with GCs and what advice did it provide her with.

[20:52] Anirma talks about the importance of shifting your network, explains what it means, and how to do it.

[22:20] Sarita asks how Anirma landed the GC job, the offers, the interviews, and how expected and unexpected it’s been since then.

[24:44] What is Tanium? And what are some of the key things Anirma had to learn working for a privately held company.

[26:34] Building a legal team, the growth mindset, and being comfortable with being uncomfortable.

[28:39] Tips for people aiming to follow the same kind of path Anirma has.

[28:56] Sarita steers the conversation towards the non-profit work that Anirma does with ChIPs.

[32:28] Sarita asks if Anirma would have any advice for her younger self.

[33:44] Does Anirma remember a time when she advocated for herself?

[34:25] Sarita asks Anirma Gupta if she has a personal mantra and thanks her for participating on the Heels of Justice podcast, and she signs off until next time.

That’s it for this episode of Heels of Justice, if you like the stories we’re telling, please visit our website. You can join our mailing list, learn more about our guests and see what we have planned for the future.

You can also follow us on Twitter, on Instagram and on Facebook.

Disclaimer: The opinions you have heard are ours or our guest’s alone. They’re not the opinions of our employers, or our clients, or our bosses, and not our husbands, kids or pets or anyone else’s.

Mentioned in this episode (chronological order)

Intuit

Sun Microsystems

Sughrue Mion

Georgetown Law School

University of Maryland

ChIPs

Laura Fennell at Intuit

More about the Heels of Justice, Sarita Venkat and Katherine Minarik

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Sarita Venkat on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on Twitter

Katherine Minarik at cleverbridge

Anirma Gupta’s personal stories (edited)

“I remember asking my parents lots of questions, and my mom, in particular, was very patient with them and she just explained there are different people in the world, and it’s okay to learn about other cultures, and diversity is a good thing but here’s what we believe in, and here’s the way we are going to live our lives.”

“Being in Silicon Valley was a different experience. I got a call one day from a recruiter saying ‘we’re looking to hire.’ I paused and looked at my situation and realized that I was in an environment where there were no female partners — in the electromechanical side of the house — and I was a litigator, living the litigator life: is this really what I want to do with the rest of my career? The call from the recruiter came at an opportune time and got me thinking about the different paths to take my career on. The idea of working with a single client, being embedded in the business, helping solve those business problems really intrigued me, so I decided to give it a chance.”

“It was one of those times where I almost didn’t take the job because I was pregnant at the time, and my husband had left his big company job to join his first startup, and we were remodeling our house — a complete teardown; we were building it from the ground up. So I got the call from Intuit and I thought, should I really be taking yet another thing on right now? Is this the time to take on a major challenge as the company's first Chief IP Counsel? The lesson that I learned then and have learned continuously over my life is that opportunities don’t always arrive in your life at the best times, and in my life, it seems that the best opportunities have come at the most inopportune times!”

“When I was interviewing… I actually made the decision to tell her when she was making the oral offer… I told her ‘I think I’m pregnant, is that okay?’ It turns out I found out I was pregnant that day. And she gave me the most amazing answer which was: “Thanks for telling me, the job’s still gonna be here.’”

“I was a summer associate at a law firm where I worked on a project with a female partner and she was — let’s just say I got a lot of feedback on the project. At the end of that meeting, she said to me: ‘Look, I didn’t have it easy making it to partner, and I’m not going to make it easy for you either.’ I was so taken aback, and that has stuck with me and drives me to do whatever I can to help people.”

More about Anirma Gupta

Anirma Gupta at Tanium

Anirma Gupta on LinkedIn

Anirma Gupta on Twitter

ChIPs Board Director Emeritus and co-founder

Awards:

National Diversity Council 2018: 50 Most Powerful Women in Technology The Recorder 2015: Women Leaders in Tech Law Inside Counsel Magazine ‘R3-100 Roundup’ 2014 and 2015: a list of 100 women most likely to become general counsel in the Fortune 500 The Recorder 2014: Women Leaders in Tech Law South Asian Bar Association of Northern California 2014: Mentorship Award for mentoring efforts in the Bay Area legal community

Intuit CEO’s Excellence in Leadership: Received in recognition of results achieved on building Intuit’s patent portfolio

Best Bay Area Corporate Counsel Awards 2010: Best IP Counsel

HOJ 004: Judge Wood: Ungentlemanly Ways, the Pregnancy Problem, & Antitrust Law Feb 15, 2019

Welcome to Heels of Justice; these are the stories of women lawyers who are trailblazers in their field and paved the way for the rest of us.

In this episode, Katherine talks to The Honorable Judge Diane Wood, the Chief Judge of the US Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit. Judge Wood is one of the most renowned federal judges in the country. She's also a pioneer in the field of an antitrust law, a University of Chicago law professor, a former Supreme Court law clerk, and a tireless champion of her own former clerks (including Katherine!).

Key Takeaways

[:32] Katherine opens this edition of Heels of Justice with a list of the three biases she has towards today’s guest and introduces Chief Judge Diane Wood.

[1:49] Judge Wood answers Katherine’s question as to why she thinks she is so inclined to build good mentoring relationships with her clerks.

[2:54] What path eventually brought Judge Wood to law, and how she remembers her experience of law school.

[6:55] Judge Diane Wood on her clerkship, the real number of applications she sent out, and the people who became lifelong friends.

[14:24] The barely believable story of Judge Wood having her second child while being the first woman on the faculty at Chicago University Law School, and all of the great advances the experience led to.

[20:05] What led Judge Wood to eventually become a pioneer of antitrust law?

[25:33] Would Judge Wood have any advice for her young self? And advice for herself back in law school?

[29:09] Judge Wood talks about the nominations for Supreme Court, the following disappointment, and overall positive side of the experience.

[33:19] Katherine asks if Judge Wood has a memory of advocating for herself she would share.

[36:07] Katherine thanks Chief Judge Diane Wood for participating on the Heels of Justice podcast, and she signs off until next time.

That’s it for this episode of Heels of Justice, if you like the stories we’re telling, please visit our website. You can join our mailing list, learn more about our guests and see what we have planned for the future.

You can also follow us on Twitter, on Instagram and on Facebook.

Disclaimer: The opinions you have heard are ours or our guest’s alone. They’re not the opinions of our employers, or our clients, or our bosses, and not our husbands, kids or pets or anyone else’s.

Mentioned in this episode (chronological order)

The University of Texas at Austin

Covington & Burling LLP Washington DC

The Friar Society at Texas University in Austin

Justice Harry Blackmun

Judith A. Miller

Justice Potter Stewart

Judge Susan E. Block

Justice Thurgood Marshall

Georgetown University Law Center

Office of the Legal Advisor of the U.S. Department of State

University of Chicago Law School

U.S. Department of Justice’s John S. Sherman Award

Sally Yates

Judge Kosinsky case

Justice Sonia Sotomayor

Justice Stephen Breyer

More about the Heels of Justice, Sarita Venkat and Katherine Minarik

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Heels of Justice on Instagram

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Sarita Venkat on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on Twitter

Katherine Minarik at cleverbridge

Judge Diane Wood’s personal stories (edited)

“The treatment of women students then — and I’m afraid to say as now — was still a problem in the classroom. So maybe the most extreme version of it was one professor I had — a very well known professor in his field — who had decided it was ungentlemanly to call on women, so he just never called on the women in the class. They complained to him, and so he decided ‘well I just won’t call on anyone!’ So he would introduce a topic in the class, and if no one raised their hand to stop him, he would move on to the next topic!”

“The due date of this second child was mid-September, and classes were going to start October first, so I was a little worried about this. I contacted [the Dean] and I said ‘I’m expecting this baby, this is when the baby is due, and I really need you to assign me to a class I’ve taught before because it’s going to be hard for me to prepare a new class.’ — I look back on that now and I think what an idiot! I should’ve just said to him I'm not available to teach during the fall, we need to come up with some arrangement, but I knew no limits — so he said fine. And then he called my husband and said, what are we going to do about this pregnancy problem?”

“My first exposure to antitrust law was at Covington & Burling when I was a summer associate. The assignment they gave me was to examine a particular case and try to figure out whether the client was going to be in any particular trouble with respect to attempts to monopolize, which is one type of antitrust violation. And the lawyer who gave me the assignment said “Oh! And by the way, nobody understands what attempts to monopolize really are.” HA! So I went to the library, and got a bunch of books and toiled away both with the law and with the record in this case, which had been up and down in the courts a couple of times, it was one of these old, ‘last-forever’ antitrust cases. I recall writing a giant 75-page memo for them, going through practice by practice, which ones I thought — according to the standard that I understood for attempts to monopolize — would be a problem.”

More about Judge Diane Wood

The American Law Institute

The New York Times

Reuters

The Circuit Rider, December 2012

HOJ 003: Sasha Rao: Flying Taxis, Drone Law & Walking Integral Table Feb 15, 2019

Welcome to Heels of Justice, these are the stories of women lawyers who are trailblazers in their field, and paved the way for the rest of us.

Today, the Heels of Justice interview Sasha G. Rao, Chair of Maynard Cooper & Gale’s Intellectual Property Practice, in San Francisco. Click here for Sasha’s full bio.

Key Takeaways

[:45] Sarita welcome Sasha G. Rao to the Heels of Justice, and asks her to describe what her role entails, day to day.

[2:04] Sasha delves into her background and history, from Bangalore to Lynchburg, Virginia for her college years.

[5:56] What took Sasha to law school after so seriously considering engineering and science? And how was the experience?

[7:40] Sarita asks Sasha if there is a difference between working in a southern firm as opposed to a Silicon Valley firm, in the IP field.

[9:25] “Write your own ticket” Maynard Cooper’s intriguing opportunity. And the difference that opportunity has provided.

[12:15] Sarita asks if Sasha can give a bit of a history and framework in regards to the state of the law surrounding drone technology or “flying taxis”.

[18:25] The three categories that need to be reflected upon to make air taxis a reality.

[24:01] Are there laws that already apply or is this still all in the works? Can the autonomous car laws be used in the air taxi framework?

[27:36] So how far away are we to autonomous flying taxis? Much sooner than we all think…

[28:30] On a different note, Sarita asks what Sasha’s experience in law was, from the perspective of a South-Asian woman.

[33:16] What does Sasha think about law firms building and retaining diversity in their workforce?

[33:59] Does Sasha agree with the idea that the odds are lower for a lawyer of diverse background to be retained by a client than that of say, a caucasian male attorney?

[35:57] How does Sasha advocate for herself?

[39:14] Sarita asks Sasha G. Rao if she has a personal mantra and thanks her for participating on the Heels of Justice podcast, and she signs off until next time.

That’s it for this episode of Heels of Justice, if you like the stories we’re telling, please visit our website. You can join our mailing list, learn more about our guests and see what we have planned for the future.

You can also follow us on Twitter, on Instagram and on Facebook.

Disclaimer: The opinions you have heard are ours or our guest’s alone. They’re not the opinions of our employers, or our clients, or our bosses, and not our husbands, kids or pets or anyone else’s.

Mentioned in this episode (chronological order)

Maynard Cooper & Gale

Bangalore

Indian Institute of Science

Hindustan Aeronautics Laboratory

Indian Space Research Organization

Randolph-Macon College

NYU School of Law

Dean Emeritus John Sexton – NYU School of Law

(Fish & Neaves) now Ropes & Grey

UAV – Unmanned Aerial Vehicles

Recreational Quadcopter

Amazon drones

Self-piloted Electric Vertical Take-off and Landing Aircraft (Air Taxis)

Urban Air Mobility

Part 107 FAA: Certificated Remote Pilots including Commercial Operators (drones under 55 pounds)

Ropes & Grey LLP

Markman v. Westview Instruments, Inc., 517 U.S. 370 (1996)

Edward Bailey

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Sarita Venkat on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on Twitter

Katherine Minarik at cleverbridge

Sasha G. Rao’s personal stories (edited)

“You know when you grew up in India, especially in Bangalore, it’s kind of expected that you’d be good at science and math, and studied a lot of science and math in high school. So when I came to Randolph-Macon, I naturally gravitated towards science and math, and my physics professor used to be amazed that I could do mathematics in my head. He would ask me integration problems and I would know the answer within seconds of his question.”

“I have always been interested in aircraft, and I wanted to be a pilot as a kid but I could not because I had poor eyesight. So later on, I had always wanted to represent an aviation company and when the opportunity presented itself after I joined Maynard, I jumped on it! I started to look around for helpful information and I found there wasn’t much out there, so I started thinking about what one might need in order to make air taxis a reality... So imagine a world where instead of calling a car on your rideshare app, and going from your house to my house: Imagine a world where you could use a similar app to call an air taxi to land at a nearby vertiport and you could hop in it and it will fly to someplace near my house and you could just walk over!”

“After I made partner at Fish & Neaves, we merged into Ropes & Grey, and I thought it was very important that I had business of my own. I thought that I could easily get that business, and for about a five year period I was simply unable to generate my own business and I was relying heavily on institutional clients. Well the firm was perfectly happy with me just working on institutional clients, so there was no pressure from Ropes & Grey to do anything different, but I personally thought that it was very important. So I spent a lot of time talking to new companies to see what they were looking for in a lawyer or a law firm. Well it led me to getting very good at rejection. So I can’t overstate it but: you have to be totally super humble because you’re gonna get a lot of rejection and I must’ve been rejected thousands of times.”

“So I was working at Fish & Neaves, I was a first year associate in a mega competitor lawsuit with at least a billion dollars at stake for the companies, and I was the tenth lawyer on the case – meaning the lowest, most junior person on the team. The supreme court had just ruled on Markman v. Westview Instruments in 1996. And I remember saying to my teammates “Hey, this decision came out, I think we need to request the court to tell us what it intends to do with the claims in this case”. So basically, when it came time to argue the Markman hearing, we had a team meeting and the lead counsel on the case – who was the managing partner at Fish & Neaves at the time, Ed Bailey – said “Who should argue this?”, he just threw it out to the whole team, and I raised my hand and I said I think I should argue it. He asked me why I thought that, and I told him; because I had written the brief, and I knew the position well, and I knew it inside out. He was persuaded and he let me do it!”

More about Sasha G. Rao

Sasha G. Rao at Maynard Cooper & Gale LLP

Sasha G. Rao on LinkedIn

HOJ 002: Katherine Minarik: Al Gore, Improv, & Social Psychology Feb 15, 2019

Welcome to Heels of Justice; these are the stories of women lawyers who are trailblazers in their field and paved the way for the rest of us.

In this episode, Sarita talks to Katherine Minarik — her friend and co-host for the Heels of Justice.

Katherine Minarik is Group General Counsel for cleverbridge. Prior to cleverbridge, she was a partner and experienced trial lawyer at Bartlit Beck. She is an elected member of the American Law Institute and a Fellow of the American Bar Association. Katherine is a past-President of the Coalition for Women’s Initiatives in Law.

Key Takeaways

[:34] For this very first episode of Heels of Justice, Sarita introduces the friend and co-host Katherine Minarik to her own podcast!

[2:40] Why did Katherine want to start a podcast? The difference between what you see and what you hear in terms of men’s and women’s accomplishments… To explain this phenomenon, she shares a story from her law firm days.

[5:42] Katherine gives a quick take on the different ways success stories affect men and women: he’s good now v.s. she’s got great potential.

[9:18] Sarita asks why Katherine chose to go into law? Hold on to your hats: from Social Psychology in London to New York, to Tampa, Florida — during the election recount of 2000, no less! — to Law in Chicago.

[16:30] Clerking for Judge Wood and why Katherine became a trial lawyer. (Hint: it may involve comedy!)

[21:55] Katherine gives an overview of some of the cases she has tried as well as how her Social Psychology degree serves her career in law.

[24:45] What is ‘untricking’ the fact finder?

[26:45] How storytelling can help reduce the primacy bias; Katherine discusses her interest in gender bias research and how it ties into the practice of law in a very real way.

[33:33] Why Katherine left litigation to become an in-house counsel.

[36:30] Katherine’s advice to her younger self, and all young women!

[41:35] How to get through the first moments — and all of the second-guessing — after a failure.

[43:44] Sarita asks Katherine what drives her to be so involved in not-for-profit organizations in her community.

[45:36] Katherine remembers advocating for herself in the form asking for a raise — and ponders the reasons why advocating for oneself seems so much easier for men.

[48:35] Sarita thanks Katherine for participating in their first Heels of Justice episode, and they both sign off until next time.

That’s it for this episode of Heels of Justice, if you like the stories we’re telling, please visit our website. You can join our mailing list, learn more about our guests and see what we have planned for the future.

You can also follow us on Twitter, on Instagram and on Facebook.

Disclaimer: The opinions you have heard are ours or our guest’s alone. They’re not the opinions of our employers, or our clients, or our bosses, and not our husbands, kids or pets or anyone else’s.

Mentioned in this episode (chronological order)

McKinsey & Company, New York

London School of Economics

Democratic National Committee

2000 Presidential Election Florida Recount

Bartlit Beck LLP

Penn’s Improv Troupe: Without a Net

Primacy Bias

Harvard study: “Investors prefer entrepreneurial ventures pitched by attractive men”

Maris Kreizman

cleverbridge

Arianna Huffington

More about the Heels of Justice, Sarita Venkat and Katherine Minarik

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Sarita Venkat on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on LinkedIn

Katherine Minarik on Twitter

Katherine Minarik at cleverbridge

Katherine Minarik’s personal stories (edited)

“I was part of a trial team representing an elevator company in a patent case, and we ended up losing our trial. We were devastated because we really felt like we had the right of it in the case. I had been the one who negotiated a bunch of our jury instructions, and I just knew there was something in the jury instructions that was a good hook for an appeal. The Federal Circuit ended up reversing the jury verdict against us, and invalidating the patent as a matter of law, in large part hooked into the jury instructions that the other side had stipulated to!”

“If I look back at my life at the times when I’ve had to make a choice and there’s maybe a safe course or a course where it was more unknown and I’d have to chart my own path and see where it leads, I have never regretted taking the path that required me to make a bigger bet on myself. I’ve always been better off for it.” “You want to be asked to do the case that is the most difficult to win. That is extremely satisfying when your client comes to you in an extreme crisis and doesn’t know what to do and they trust you to find a way through the morass. I think that’s the best feeling in the world for the litigator. It is what you’re there for. You want to help.”

HOJ 001: Introduction Feb 15, 2019

Sarita Venkat and Katherine Minarik give an introduction to Heels of Justice

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