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My Name is Not an Error Jan 09, 2022

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#314: Josué and Link discuss the importance of names. Specifically, how exciting it was to have Josué’s name be included in Forza Horizon 5 Transcript Josué Cardona 0:11Welcome to GT radio on the Geek Therapy network here at Geek Therapy, we believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves is through the media we care about, my name is Josué Cardona. And I’m joined by Link Keller. Link Keller 0:20Helloooo Josué Cardona 0:22Hey Link. Today I want to talk about the importance of a feeling a feeling seen. Okay, I feel like you you’re, you’ve been seeing like your we talked about representation Link Keller 0:42I’ve been seen, Josué Cardona 0:43I’ve been seen, Link Keller 0:45I have no, that is true. I have been seen, Josué Cardona 0:48you have. We’ve talked about representation a lot in different in different ways. And there’s, there’s this, there’s one thing that like, for years, I’ve had this idea that one day, I’m going to, I was going to like, either make a YouTube video, or like this really long blog post, like, you know, someday, maybe I’ll do it, but this is this is gonna end up being the first version of that. So there’s something that I do. So my name is spelled J O S U E. And on the E, there’s a there’s a tilde, right? Or an accent mark. And so that that’s, that’s correct. Spelling in Spanish, that’s the way you do it. Many languages have other characters and symbols on, on their letters, my name happens to have one. And it’s, it’s important to me, it’s very important to me, so I always spell it correctly. And I appreciate it so much. When, when people like, you know, there’s a pronunciation part of like, oh, how do i pronounce her name? And like, I appreciate that part. And I get it. It’s like how, Oh, I’ve never seen that name before. That’s kind of weird. That’s usually people’s reaction when that comes up. But the writing part, right is is also a big a big thing. So I, for years, I’ve been, you know, I put my name in, and I got a website when I sign up for something. And so for years, I’ve been taking snapshots of all the times that different systems, websites, programs, apps, have told me that’s not a real name, or it’s an error. Not only not only like, sometimes it’s like, there’s a there’s a there’s an error in your name, but it’s like this thing that you wrote in there is an error, right? It’s a and there’s there’s many different ways of that sometimes it’s just not acceptable. Link Keller 2:56unrecognized symbol Josué Cardona 2:59unrecognized um, I don’t, that sucks. And sometimes I get to red letters. It’s like, hey, No, try again. Don’t do that. So then I have to I have to misspell at the misspelled my name. So I have to remove the the tilde, right? It’s like, okay, fine. I get it. And I still again, I’ve been doing this for years. And I take a snapshot of it. Because I want to see what it looks like. Sometimes, systems will accept it first. But then on the back end, they change it. And it has all sorts of weird things that come up. Some of it I think is like ASCII code that that’s like, you know, like this all so many weird things. And sometimes it just doesn’t make any sense. Link Keller 3:44There’s just an ampersand, where it’s like anything that is not a letter or a number. We’re gonna turn it into an ampersand. Josué Cardona 3:50I wish it was just that. So one of the one of the most absurd ones that has ever happened was when I signed up to be a, like a contributor for for my local NPR station. Many years ago. I sign up and a member supported I’m a member now awesome. I put my name in. It accepts it. And then I get something in the mail. And my name is written. Oh, like J o su ampersand, E A C U T E. Right? It’s just like this huge Josué uhh Akuti. Right. And I’m like, what? It’s the weirdest version. Sometimes there’s like weird symbols and stuff. So I mean, it just it just, I’ve come to accept that it bothers me. I don’t like it. Every time I’ve had the opportunity. Whether whether you know, that whenever I’ve had an opportunity to like bring it up or any kind of consulting piece. I’m like, Look, names matter. Right? Let’s do something about that. So That’s that’s just, I accepted it. And again, I’m collecting it and it, it doesn’t feel good. And, and I was recently, I went on vacation, I went to a national park. And you know, like when you go to touristy places, and there’s like the souvenirs that have people’s names on them. Link Keller 4:25Mm hmm. The keychain wall Josué Cardona 5:22key chain, right stuff. Exactly. Stuff like that. So Link Keller 5:25the lanyard bracelets, Josué Cardona 5:27yeah, yeah, exactly. All that stuff. And, but to be fair Josué is not as uncommon. A name, like I used to. I mean, you’re in California. I mean, used to be in California, right? Like, you’ve probably, you know, seen it often. More often than, than, you know, people in other places. But it’s not that uncommon. And I used to, like, as part of this argument, I use it. So every year, I would go, the Social Security, his Social Security website has a list of the most common names that are given to children every year in the country. And Josué was always in like, the top 200 300 For the past, like 10 years. And I mean, I haven’t checked it recently to see like where it is, but it’s like, it’s there, like kids are being named Josué all the time. Josué is, is the Spanish equivalent of like, if you open a Spanish Bible, right, what an English would be the chapter of the book of Joshua. It’s it’s Josué, right? I mean, Link Keller 6:24yup Josué Cardona 6:25it’s just Joshua, and many countries have a different version of it. That’s the Spanish version. And in French, it’s technically spelled the same way. So it’s not it’s not super uncommon. I’m still Link Keller 6:34no, it’s super common. It’s a biblical name. Just because it’s not in English. It’s Oof. Josué Cardona 6:43I mean, look, I’m giving my my story, my perspective, my version of this, right? Like, there are there are Asian names that are so common, if you take the world and in context, right? Because Because Asia has so many people, right? So many people in India, so many people in China, who have names that once they come here, people are like, I don’t know how to spell that. What is that? Like? And it’s the same type of, I’ve never heard that before. You know, and you know, that you’re like, one of, you know, millions of people you right, in the world who has the same name. And so like, I feel that but I but I get it, right, like you don’t know another language. Maybe you don’t know, too many other people that maybe you just forgot its Okay. So this is something that that again, is important to me. It always bothers me anytime even. I have this conversation all the time. Oh, how would I say your new Oh, that’s so nice. I’ve never heard it before. And I like automatically goes like, oh, it’s the Spanish version of Joshua. Like, you know, it’s like, it’s my version of like, how to thank you. Here’s a, here’s a learning moment. And let’s move on. Right? Link Keller 7:57Yeah. Josué Cardona 7:58So in media, I’ve never, never, ever seen the name Josué. Like, I mean, I’m like, sure. Spanish mean, it’s like an English like, I don’t remember ever seeing a character name or sway, anything like that. A book like nothing, I think there’s no like main or even side characters right now named Josué I’ve never, never seen it. And, and, I mean, we’ve, we’ve talked about it not in this context, right. But like, there’s some popular video games with like, Link, and Lara, you know, a character so much. I have no idea what that what that’s like, actually, I have this, um, this. I don’t know if I would call it a fear. Let’s call it a fear. I have this I have this fear that when someone finally names a character, right, Josué, it’s gonna be a villain. Like, it’s gonna be bad, right? And I’m like, No, or it’s gonna be just like a terrible character. And then people will associate me with that name. Right? Because because you hear those stories, right? Where people are like, oh, like, I was born with that name. And now everybody associates it with this stupid character from the show that everybody hates. And, and that that’s, that’s a fear that I have, um, there’s not much I can do about it. So so that would suck I hope it doesn’t happen. But you know. Anyway, Link Keller 9:26fingers crossed Josué Cardona 9:27there’s just I have no positive or negative examples of my name in in like, general like English media, but even I’m sure in Spanish media, you know, it. It’s much more common but we’re talking about English stuff in particular. Nothing. So do you have any comments on this before I before I continue Link Keller 9:48before we get into that juicy meaty bit? Sure. My name is Lauren. And that is a extremely common name. Josué Cardona 10:01basic Link Keller 10:02So basic. Speaking of the Social Security website where you can look up the most popular names the year that I was born, both my first and middle names were in the top 20 Girls names the year I was born. So I was like, wow, my parents really didn’t try. Oh, yeah, yeah. But in choosing to go by Link, utilizing my initials as a way to do something kind of fun. But then it’s also name of one of my favorite video game characters. Josué Cardona 10:32Yes, Link Keller 10:33it’s real tasty. It is a name that is common enough, does not show up on magnets and key chains and stuff. I have not seen that in the wild yet. But I’m also not really at the age where I’m interested in that kind of stuff anymore. Yeah, I remember the first time I went to Disneyland when I was 6? 5? 6? And I lost my first tooth there. And the Tooth Fairy brought me $1 wrapped around a magnet that was my name in pretty rainbow cursive. And I thought that was real swell. It also absolutely revealed to me that the tooth fairy was not real. Not as important to me. I was very excited about the magnet. Josué Cardona 11:22Yeah. Link Keller 11:23But yeah, as I as I’ve gotten older, it has become less important to me. But I think that that is explicitly because I saw myself out there. I saw my name on things. Yeah, I There are very famous, popular main characters named Lauren. Like, it was not something that I ever went without, like even even evil characters named Lauren is like, I have choices there. So it’s like, I got to see myself in that way. And yeah, I, I, I wonder is it’s is it worse to just not be represented at all or to only be represented in negative ways? So I mean, see, we’re talking about if, like, they put out a video game character, and the villain is named Josué. Like that? Yeah, Josué Cardona 12:15yeah. Yeah. Um, I don’t, I don’t know. I can’t speak. Yeah, I don’t have any experience. I can only tell you that, that moment of going to Disney and seeing that wall of stuff. And then you are not there. And there’s, it’s like, it’s a giant wall with so many different names. And you see the names of kids who are in class with you, right people that you know, and especially when you’re when you’re that’s when it’s like, why isn’t my name here? Link Keller 12:45Yeah. Josué Cardona 12:46And I mean, you know, it, it’s othering, right? It’s like, oh, like, I’m not a part of this. I’m, I’m in freakin Disney and suddenly, like, I feel like most some things are not for me. Right? Like, I can’t have Why can’t I spend $30 on this? On this little on this little piece of garbage that is not worth $30. But, but then you keep going through that right your entire life? And yes, like when I went to a national park now? It did not. It did not hurt in any way. Right? Because it was, but I still I know, I always look, I still do it. Because I would I still want it to be there. Now, of course, we can custom order anything, right? Like online and get it and get it engraved and all that stuff. And that is fantastic. Because that’s an that’s an option. Right? So like, you can bypass that. But that experience of like this, you know, commercial experience is like, ah, but it’s reflected in other areas as well. You know, so like, there, I can’t imagine the amazing feeling of like uh like their Star Wars characters, right? That are that are like South Asian names, right? And things like that, like, like to to, like the creators, right? And not just ours, but like in so many different things. They’re just like, oh, this name sounds cool. So let’s pull it from over here. You know, like, there’s not really thinking about it in that way. But imagine like your name is Ahsoka. And all of a sudden, it’s like, Josué Cardona 14:29ahsoka is like one of the coolest characters in Star Wars. And to most people. It’s like, oh, that’s a cool name, but it’s just the character and you’re like, No, like, that’s been my name my entire life. Because it is a pretty common name in other parts of the world. And an at least a known name, so things like that. So you know, I’ve never, never had that until recently. Okay, so Link Keller 14:59set the scene Josué Cardona 14:59I’m gonna process this now. Yeah, I’m gonna process this with you with you now Link Keller 15:02take us through the experience. Josué Cardona 15:04Yeah. So there is a very good driving game on Microsoft platforms called Forza Horizon, Link Keller 15:16just a little game you might have heard of. Josué Cardona 15:19I mean, you know, Forza Horizon series. And, and apparently I was looking this up and apparently, you know, right now there’s the fifth version. So Forza Horizon five came out a couple months ago, November, December, and it’s really good. Like, I like driving games a lot, I find them very calming. This game has a lot of things to like, including that I can use nothing but Volkswagen Beetles throughout the entire game. So it’s, it’s all to me, it’s also the spiritual successor of Beetle Adventure Racing 64. I basically only drive Volkswagen Beetles in it. And, and I love that stuff. And so it has this feature at the beginning, you build your character, and it has has an interesting character creator that with a whole bunch of stuff that we could we could talk about. But then it says, Pick a name. And so in a lot of video games, including the Legend of Zelda, but you can just rename Link to whatever you want. And since there’s no voice acting, right, it’s always it’s always just spelled out. And so like, I’ve, I, I think I did that once. I usually just leave Link as Link because to me Link is link and like, I’m not link, right, like, I’m playing, I’m playing link’s story. And, but I could, I could just change it so that everybody calls the character Josué. And I’ve had that like, in writing, you know, like, you can you can switch it up. And but in forza horizon, Link Keller 16:49I think Nintendo does have accent Es as a choice. Josué Cardona 16:52You can No, no, absolutely. Like, you know, lots of games let you write whatever you want. Like, like, you know that that is an option. In terms of, if we’re talking about a character that you’re creating from scratch, right? That there’s there’s so much that’s what like that part of it, I think we’ve covered in the past, and it’s super important to have that. But what Forza Horizon five does that is special is that it says Pick your name. And so it doesn’t let you write your name. And it has hundreds of names to choose from. So now, I’m playing this game. And I’m going in, and I’m, this is the wall of key chains. It’s exactly the same thing, right? And so what do I do whenever I see one of those walls of keychains? Link Keller 17:39you got to check. Josué Cardona 17:40I gotta check. Josué is there in the menu. And not only is the name there to pick, the reason why you pick and you don’t just spell them is because every name is voice acted. Link Keller 17:58Aah! Josué Cardona 17:59so there’s a narrative, there’s a story. So throughout the entire story in cutscenes, and the characters that are speaking to you over the phone, and like throughout th…

Full show notes at the publisher

Spider-Man: No Way Home Dec 26, 2021

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#313: Josué and Lara are joined by special guest Marc Cuiriz to discuss and process Spider-Man: No Way Home, full spoilers ahead! Transcript [PASTE TRANS Josué Cardona 0:11Welcome to GT radio on the Geek Therapy network here at Geek Therapy. We believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves is through the media we care about, my name is Josué Cardona. and I’m joined by Lara Taylor Kester. Lara Taylor 0:21Hey, Josué Cardona 0:22hello. And a special guest, Marc Cuiriz. Marc Cuiriz 0:26Hello, Lara Taylor 0:27what is he doing here? Josué Cardona 0:29He’s abiding by our very strict. Once a year rule, he’s not allowed on the show more than once per year. Lara Taylor 0:35Okay, yeah. Cutting it close this here? Josué Cardona 0:38Yeah, yeah, yeah. Only at the end of the year. Is he allowed to come by maybe so. Marc Cuiriz 0:45So you want to know something? That’s funny. The last time I was actually on GT was last year in November, when the rise of Skywalker came out. And we did a whole Star Wars Episode. Yeah. Yeah, Josué Cardona 0:57I know. I know. Marc Cuiriz 0:58So it seems like I’m only invited on when there’s a big premiere of movies. Josué Cardona 1:03No, you’re actually Lara Taylor 1:05no Josué Cardona 1:05the reason why you’re on here is because you represent a different spectrum on the age continuum, than we do obviously, Lara’s At the opposite extreme. Lara Taylor 1:24Thanks, Josué Cardona 1:24among us, You’re You’re the youngest one. Lara Taylor 1:27I am a month older than you. Josué Cardona 1:30You’re still the oldest one. But but there was something about that that Star Wars Episode, right where it was, you have such a different experience than I do with Star Wars, right? Like for you, it was new. And, and so for today, we’re going to be talking about spider man, no way home. And not only is is Spider Man, super important to you. But you said something to me. The day before the movie came out. You said like, this is like my entire childhood. in like in one movie. And I thought about that. I was like, what, when? But how different is that? From from, from my experience? And I think it is. And and I know Spider Man is a super important character to you. So that’s why I really, I’m really happy that you’re here to provide a perspective. Of course, this is a super spoiler filled episode. I hope you’re here because you want to learn more about the movie. sure, get our reactions, of course, but really the different themes that we we each identified, I’m sure we saw it and thought very different things. And hopefully, this will be helpful for you, listener, as you as you think about the movie and talk about it with other people and you know, get an idea of how meaningful some of the themes in this movie can be. So so with that. No, come back later. If you haven’t watched it, if you haven’t watched Spider Man no way home if you have welcome. And let’s start with Marc, what what does the character Spider Man mean to you? Marc Cuiriz 3:12What a Spider Man mean to me. Oh, man, this is this is a loaded question because he means he means he means many different things to me. I mean, first and foremost, he sort of has that representation of, you know what, like what you were talking about earlier, where I kind of represent this on the younger side of this generation here. In terms of like, you know, talking about millennials, I know I’m like very at the cusp. You could call me a zillennial, or whatever you want to call it. The point is, is that, you know, he, you know, Peter Parker when he’s bitten, he’s just a teenager, and he has to figure out the whole superhero gig, basically by himself, at least in the comics. So we represent that younger, more childish side. But also, he’s probably one of the more realistic superheroes that I was exposed to as a kid. You know, growing up, you have the the, the iconic ones, you have Superman, you have Batman. And you know, Batman, I know is pretty realistic in the sense that, you know, he’s just normal human, he has no powers, but he’s also mega rich, which is also extremely unrealistic to someone like me, who’s, you know, always kind of lived in the working class or below. And so to have someone like Peter Parker, and spider man, to basically be someone like me, just with the unfortunate or fortunate accident of being bitten by a radioactive spider is is something that has always stuck out to me and has always shown me that you know what, it doesn’t matter how old you are. It doesn’t matter where you come from. You always have this potential to do great things and to help so many other people with your gifts. It doesn’t necessarily need to be something spectacular, as long as you sort of have the heart and the conviction to always kind of stand up and do what’s right. And in his case, it’s odd at the times looking out for the little guys, you know, like they have in which movie was it? It was Civil War at the end or not civil war. Oh, God, no, Marvel no Marvel knowledge is leaving me. No, I wasn’t winter soldier. No, no, it afterwards Lara Taylor 5:34was debuting in civil war. Yeah, Marc Cuiriz 5:37it was, it was, oh, it was homecoming. My apologies. So they have been homecoming. When he says, like, you know, I want to be the friendly neighborhood Spider Man, I want to look out for the little guys. So he’s not sitting here, you know, protecting government agencies. He’s not out there protecting his own corporation. It’s no, I got to protect the everyday citizens of New York from you know, muggers and burglars and things of the sort he wants to be there for them. He is the people’s hero. And you even see that with with spider with the video game with Miles Morales, you know, kind of deviating a little bit, but we still have the the moniker of spider man. And, you know, kind of spoilers for that game. You know, at the end, we have one of the you know, one of the people of Harlem saying that’s our spider man, because he represents them, and he’s fighting for them based on the actions that he’s doing and what he kind of is standing up for. So that’s kind of like, I think the biggest thing for what’s how, what Spider Man sort of means to me is that you’re there for the people, and you’re there to do whatever you can to help them to the best of your abilities with the gifts or the knowledge that you have. Josué Cardona 6:53I was telling my therapist today that the Spider Man is known for, you know, having storylines and or having an element to his stories where like, he has to have a job and he has to pay the rent. And, and he struggles with things that you know, people struggle with on a day to day basis in a very relatable way. He’s not the only character but he I think he’s definitely probably the first superhero, that that did that kind of thing. And it’s it’s core to to the character and of course over the years, you know, Spider Man has been many, many different things. Including, like being portrayed by different actors and different movies. Okay, so just quick reactions to to the movie Lara. What what did you? What did you think of the movie? Lara Taylor 7:43I cried a lot. It was very good movie. It was everything. Like Marc was talking about this is his childhood coming to life or whatever, right? This is my entire adulthood and spider man because the first Spider Man movie came out when I was in college right out of moving out of my dad. We’re not moving out of my dad’s house, but right when I started college, and so I have had the knowledge of the Tobey Maguire and the Andrew Garfield and I was so excited to see them in this movie. And those are some of my favorite interactions are the three of them together in this movie. So that’s my quick take is that like it was like, my entire because I think Spider Man was the first superhero it was before any of the Marvel stuff. Like it was the Sony Spider Man movie. Josué Cardona 8:37iron man and spider man came out right around the same time Lara Taylor 8:40right around the same time. So it’s like, all of that was the beginning. And so I think seeing Tobey Maguire on the screen was one of my favorite things when When’s he coming? Josué Cardona 8:54Yeah. Lara Taylor 8:56Don’t give me Andrew Garfield first. Josué Cardona 9:00Yeah, I mean, I expected them there but I was still I was like, maybe they won’t be I mean, I don’t I don’t know. I wasn’t I wasn’t super sure. And especially how much they would be there marc your quick reactions to the movie. Marc Cuiriz 9:15Well, I was at the edge of my seat the entire time. I went to one of those theaters where like they have dinner like they served dinner as well. I completely forgot my my food existed Josué Cardona 9:27well, it was drowning in tears I’m sure Marc Cuiriz 9:30Oh yeah. Oh, one 100% Josué Cardona 9:33soggy Marc Cuiriz 9:34Exactly. My chicken tendies just completely soaked. My fiance kept trying to like hold my hand and like I would hold it for like five seconds and then immediately like pull it away and like pull a toast to my chest because I was just so excited about what was happening on the screen. And you know, I it brings me back because I remember when Spider Man three came out I was in fifth grade and I remember coming home from school. I know that I’m aging all of you guys Right now I can see your faces hilarious Josué Cardona 10:01we started, laid that foundation Lara Taylor 10:02started, we started the millennial generation, you ended it, as we’re all millennials here Marc Cuiriz 10:10exactly and I just remember coming home from school. And it was like in a storm that day, but it was like the Friday that the movie came out. And I remember my mom taking me to the theater and just sitting there and watching the end of the trilogy here. And it was just like that like that’s like the one of the clearest earliest memories I have of Spider Man aside from watching like the cartoon, the 80s cartoon Lara Taylor 10:3490s Marc Cuiriz 10:361990s 80s, you know? Oh, yeah, exactly. But no, it’s it was just all around completely amazing. And even hearing like, the jokes that they were like, the subtle jokes they had towards like, you know, Andrew Garfield at his expense. And him like totally going along with it. It was, I thought it was great. I thought it had some really nice, even meta jokes in there that were just top tier. Josué Cardona 11:02Yeah, and my reactions also cried a lot. This week messed me up, like, part of the reason why we’re doing this episode is mostly so I can process some of my feelings about it. Lara Taylor 11:16As many of our episodes go Josué Josué Cardona 11:19they’re for us. Marc Cuiriz 11:21I love processing things. Josué Cardona 11:22Yeah, yeah. Couldn’t process it for long enough with my therapist earlier today. So you all get to do the rest of that. I, the MCU is incredibly rewarding, the more you invest into it, and the payoff of knowing of getting all those references and being connected to all those other movies and knowing those characters. It keeps getting harder and harder to explain to people. Because it required for us. I mean, we we watched them as they came out, right? Even Even you marc I’m sure right? Like, you know, you went to theater to see the third one. And there’s been a lot of stuff since then. You rented the first two, but it was just like two that you had to go back and check right and, and see that way. But but like anyone who’s younger now, like there’s so much to watch and catch up on to be able to understand all these things. And I think I was surprised at the movie, I think it does a good job of if this is your, you could come into this movie fresh and it explains everything to you. Because there’s so much weird stuff happening that they have to explain it to to Peter and MJ and Annette so that that happens. And so I think they pulled that off. I think they pulled I think they they did everything. They didn’t waste a single opportunity. It feels like with the resources that they had available. Everybody was it was I don’t know, it was it was a hell of an experience. And and ultimately, I’m sure we’ll get to it later. But ultimately, I felt but we’ll get to my feelings about it later. I have very strong feelings about the movie, but I think it’s an amazing experience to to have something like this. And it’s just it’s just it was it was it was Shocking. Shocking. But but but but really great. That’s kind of my my reaction. So yeah, so there’s so much in it that that can mean different things to the different people. So what are the what are the the biggest things that you think we should talk about Marc give me give me give me the biggest thing that you think we should we should talk about? Biggest theme. biggest event? Biggest moment? Marc Cuiriz 13:56The biggest moment? Josué Cardona 13:58Yeah, not necessarily your favorite just like the most important kind of thing. Marc Cuiriz 14:02I think and this is this is where like most of my tears are shed and it kind of goes without saying but I think it’s when Aunt May dies and it’s it was the most heart wrenching thing because like you like the moment you saw her standing in front of the door even before you know goblin even comes through you you just knew that the way it was standing in the way it was it was portrayed it you just saw it coming a mile away but it still didn’t take away from the the heartbreaking moment. Especially once once Tom Holland you know, Peter kind of realizes what’s happening. Um, and just kind of understanding that that impact and more so kind of playing into then this this darker side of, of Tom Holland because, you know, up until this point we’ve only ever seen him as the The cheeky sarcastic teenager high school kid. And after this moment, we see a huge dramatic shift in his in his thought process and even in his emotions, like it all takes a much darker turn. Which I think is something that was really interesting and, you know, totally makes the what happens in the post credit scenes very much. You know, something that I definitely see coming in the future. And I’m very much excited to see happen in the future. Josué Cardona 15:34What do you mean from the post credit scenes? Marc Cuiriz 15:37Oh, you like when when they have venom, and then you see, he kind of he when he gets sent back to his own universe, and then you see that there’s a little drop of venom that stayed, which, you know, plot wise, it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. Like, if you think about it, it really doesn’t like that, that it shouldn’t stay there. But the fact that it does, and knowing what Venom kind of what venom is known to do to you know, Peter when he’s wearing it, or when he has Venom attached to him. It especially when you see how angry he got and how much he and how willing he was ready to to kill the Green Goblin? Yeah. Like it just makes it like something that you can definitely see like a future movie happening. And it’s one that I’m very excited to see happen because you know, you can harp on Spider Man three all you want, but that black suit. I loved that. I loved that costume design. Josué Cardona 16:38Got it? Okay, okay. So kind of the darker side, getting tapped into seeing it play out. Getting it. Right, so so he doesn’t get to. I mean, he would have killed during goblin. If, if Tobey Maguire hadn’t stepped in. And and so you’re Lara Taylor 16:58peter Parker, Peter Parker two Josué Cardona 17:00one, two. No, no, that’s right. Tobey’s two Garfield, three. Forgot forget. That’s so funny, Ah, got it. Got it. Got it, too. So. So is that something that is like that you’ve been thinking about that? Like? Okay, we’re gonna see that, like, in the future, then that side of him that, that the darker side and venom will tap into it? Marc Cuiriz 17:28Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I also, I also see it as like a big intense moment of growth for him. And I think, because I remember, you know, also what I was texting was that I felt like this movie broug…

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It’s Just “A” Meeting Oct 17, 2021

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#312: The team discusses Netflix’s Midnight Mass and find it to be full of great conversation starters – family dynamics, religious trauma, forgiveness – and some pretty good monologues! Transcript Josué Cardona 0:04Welcome to GT radio on the Geek Therapy network here at Geek Therapy. We believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves is through the media we care about. My name is Josué Cardona. And I’m joined by Lara Taylor. Lara Taylor 0:10Hey Josué Cardona 0:10and Link Keller. Link Keller 0:11Hello Josué Cardona 0:11Right? I think it’s Lara’s turn? Josué Cardona 0:14It is my turn. Josué Cardona 0:15What are we what are we talking about? Lara Taylor 0:16We’re talking about Midnight Mass, Josué Cardona 0:16what is Midnight Mass? Lara Taylor 0:17It is a, I guess a limited series is what they’re calling on. Netflix. It’s by the same person that did. Haunting of Hill House and Haunting of Bly Manor. Lots of spooky, creepy things. Not exactly like. It wasn’t scary, scary. It’s one of those things that it wasn’t to me wasn’t super scary. And then you get toward the end. It’s like, oh, shit, things got things got creepy. But I think I heard a lot of buzz about this from friends. And a friend of mine who is deep in the Catholic Church was asking for his friends opinions on like, how they represented faith in the show, and most actually said, except for one person pretty accurately. And that it did a good job. And I was like, Huh, that’s interesting. So I watched a show. And there’s, there’s that’s a that’s a piece of representation. We don’t talk about too much. But there’s other things in there so many good pieces about family and mental health struggles, and I don’t know, everything gets creepier when things that are supposed to be safe supposed to be in quotes, like, you know, children, religion, family, like those things when it gets creepy. It really is scary. I don’t know. Josué Cardona 1:06Yeah, yeah. It’s, it’s been I mean, things like Netflix. Right. Like, it’s like a blip in time. But I think the reviews have been so good. From what I can tell that, you know, I think I think it’ll have some longevity. I think people will keep coming back to it and talk about it for a while. And people seem to like it more than then. Hill house is my, my, my take from, from what I’ve what I’ve read. But yeah, no, let’s let’s get into where do you want to start? Lara Taylor 1:28Where do I want to? Well, I want to I want to get your all’s impressions of what what you liked about it? Josué Cardona 1:30Link? Link Keller 2:26Um, I enjoyed it. It definitely fits in with Hill House. And Bly Manor. I think I liked Bly Manor a little bit better. And that may just be because of the queer stuff. I’m willing to admit that. I thought there’s some really cool visual elements. utilized in midnight mass. There was a couple of really cool scenes that um, if we get more into spoiler territories, like, obviously, I’m sure you guys were like, oh, links gonna like this part, because I did! I had I had some discomfort. I don’t know that it was so scary for me. But I think a big part of that is because of my relationship with religion is has always been distanced from Christianity. And so a lot of the Christianity and Catholic related stuff is like, I I’ve always had that space where it’s like, I’m aware of it, but it is not happened to me. So while I definitely find Bev to be absolutely terrifying as a character, maybe the scariest character in all three seasons, three series, but um, yeah. Oh, overall, I enjoyed it. I it was a it was enjoyable, spent spooky time. Link Keller 3:36And this is the first time I’m ever going to be able to use this. And one of these episodes, although it’s something I talk about whenever we do trainings and workshops that you don’t you, sometimes you it’s impossible to actually watch a whole thing, because you don’t have the time. And therefore, there are wonderful YouTubers who will give recaps of everything that happened. And there’s Wikipedia and you can read about stuff and you can still learn about it and which I wanted to do, because I wanted Lara Taylor 4:04context. Josué Cardona 4:05But it matters to you. So it matters to me. I couldn’t make the time to see the whole thing. But I but I, but I did my homework. And so Lara Taylor 4:11and that’s all we can ask for right? Josué Cardona 4:14Look. I think I think it’s a good tactic. Always remember that listeners, you can’t you can’t watch everything, you can’t read everything. Lara Taylor 4:19You can’t, I have a list on my desk of things that clients have suggested that I watch. And I cannot commit to watching all of them. I can watch some of all of them, like a few bits and pieces. I give me your best moments, your best, whatever. And I will I will What strikes a chord with you and I’ll watch that. But I get that. Josué Cardona 4:37I do that with my sister. She’s like, Oh, I’ve been watching this all day. Like you gotta you gotta just tell me the best episode like you get a watch an episode. I can’t watch the whole series from the beginning with you. I’m sorry, I just can’t do it. When I after learning about the show, I really wanted to watch it. Like I was I was kind of bummed that I didn’t actually watch it. And then we had an extra week to watch it. I still didn’t have enough time to now you know, I’m adding that to the to the other 1000 things on my backlog. But I would I would definitely like to actually watch the whole series. But yeah, there’s a lot of stuff there that I’m I’m looking forward to hearing you talk about. And yeah, yeah. Lara Taylor 6:08It’s interesting, because I think a lot of I talked about this on another episode, I don’t know what like, this idea of existentialism, or like looking at not even just that, but like, faith in and like what we believe happens when we die. And there’s a scene that I loved there that I was like, I don’t know, if where I fall on the spectrum between the two. But both of the descriptions were beautiful as to what happens when we die. And I don’t like to think about it, I think because like most people, I am terrified of dying. But, um, I think that, and we get another scene later on that it kind of goes even in more depth about what happens and what these people believe happens. And it was really nice to see that portrayed that like, this guy’s fall from grace and fall from and separation from his faith, and then he’s still able to come up with a meaningful belief about what happens even though other people might see it as not meaningful. You know, I’ve had friends who are like, well, when you die, you die. And that’s it. That’s the end. And his description is like, Well, no, but we also become part of this. And part of that, and I can’t put good words to like they did in the scene, but like, I almost I wanted to believe both of them. As to what happens, you know, it was it was beautiful. Josué Cardona 7:59There’s an episode of Otaku Ryōhō that we recorded, where we talk about how the the, our beliefs around death, right can inform how we live our lives? I don’t? I don’t know. A lot of people think about that all the time. I do. Definitely. So like, what was your take on on how, you know, the people who believe different things? And like, you thought they were both cool, right? But like, how? How would they? How would the different possibilities? Maybe like how did it affect the different characters? And like, how do you think, like, would they influence you at all, if you like, if one was real or like if you knew or just believed? Right? I think that’s the that’s the bigger point. Right? It’s about what you believe. Lara Taylor 8:48I think it’s interesting because the both of them come to this conversation having from different perspectives, but both having a experience with death in different ways. One feels at fault, and that is how is that fault. And so that is how he loses his beliefs and shifts things and the other one is a more personal, I don’t want to spoil things, but I guess we can spoil it like she’s she’s, I guess she might also at that point, she is unsure of whether she did something wrong or not. And wants to believe that there is a place where there is peace and a place where you can be in a warm, loving embrace and that people are together. Like her definition of Heaven is not what a lot of people might say Heaven is heaven is just a place where you’re loved. And I think I could get behind that. And the way she described that made me think because I’m someone who came from a family where my mom was raised Catholic and decided to bounce from that when she became an adult, and let her children choose. And so I didn’t really grow up with any I mean, obviously, majority of America, Christian values, whatever. We always celebrated Christmas in my house, Easter, that kind of thing, but I never really had religion in my home. And so I’ve always kind of thought of myself as someone who like, I’ve never really formed these thoughts and thought about these things until I’ve, I’ve watched shows that kind of depict this thing. And so thinking about what I believe, and I want to believe that, I don’t know, I really don’t know. Which is why I like the other person’s perspective. He talks about how there is meaning even in the simplicity in the science and the quote unquote, coldness of death and that like, when we die, we propel things going on. So I don’t know. I don’t know if they’ve even answered the question you asked, but Josué Cardona 11:24I’m not sure. no you did I think I think you did. I think I mean, you You talked a lot about the religious piece. I grew up yeah, my my parents bounced from one religion to another to another and different churches. And I have a very long list of religious traumas that I’m not to talk about at any any time, just let me know. I bring them all the time. And but that is so separated to me still from the like, it doesn’t really inform my thoughts on what happens after you die. It’s a, I guess, because I’ve wanted to separate myself from from a lot of the different religious ideologies. Yeah. Lara Taylor 12:19So then there’s people like Bev in the show, who make me very glad that I never had any religious upbringing. And that I didn’t have to deal with with people like that she was… something else. Link Keller 12:36a nightmare Josué Cardona 12:37I think it is. I think it’s true that a lot of people do you have, or have had positive experiences as being part of like a religious community. I hope it’s possible. But Link Keller 12:50that is a big part of why this show sort of engages with is the idea of like, okay, so this show takes place on a small island, called Crockett, and is a small island and Lara Taylor 13:08the crock pot, Link Keller 13:10the crock pot, it’s very cute. But it is a small town, everybody knows everybody, everybody’s all up in everybody’s business. There is only one way on and off the islands, the main source of income is fishing. And there is a history of this town suffering due to an oil spill a few years prior to when the show is mainly taking place. And so it is reflecting this idea of the church is the community’s backbone, the community doesn’t survive without the church because the church is the glue that is holding this small group of people together. And how it fails to provide the things that they need. That they need. Except it provides community and that is something that we desperately need. And so it is constantly balancing this idea of like, needing those relationships with people, your neighbors to people, you spend your time with the people who you coexist with, who you share resources with, and also the unbelievable harm that can come from those kinds of spaces where there aren’t other opportunities. A main plot point is Riley, the main character is going to AA as part of his probation and he has to take a ferry off of the island to go to the mainland to go to his a meeting every week. And it is this thing where he is literally leaving to go to a meeting. And the priest of the local church says look, I’ll open up an a meeting here on the island for you so you don’t have to go anywhere. And it’s in this framing. It’s like wow, that is so thoughtful. You’re really saving him trip you’re you’re giving him a whole day unity except he’s the only one there. And it’s not anonymous, it’s very much not anonymous, that A is completely ditched. Lara Taylor 15:10It’s just A, Link Keller 15:11it’s just A meeting. Lara Taylor 15:15that’s the title of the episode, Link Keller 15:16you know, through these through, you know, there are several scenes where Riley is talking to Father Paul, about, you know what, what they talk about in AA meetings and is set up where is this seesaw of being like, this is not what Riley needs to help him stay sober and find purpose and meaning in his life and readjust to his new status quo with his family and his neighbors. But also he doesn’t, he doesn’t have any other choice really. And and you can see that there. In some ways, these conversations are helping him he is having some introspection. And so it is this back and forth of like, yes, we can see the benefits. And yes, we can see the harm. And it’s like how, how do how do people deal with that? How do you deal with that cognitive dissonance of someone being like, yeah, if a storm turns out the power we have cots in the in the church, rec room, and everybody is welcome to come. But also, I will poison your dog if I don’t like your dog. And it’s like, Oh, damn, how do I reconcile that? It’s like, a lot of times, you can’t and people are just having to sort of deal with that discomfort. Because there aren’t other options. There’s not another church on the island you can go to if you stop going to church that has social repercussions, Lara Taylor 16:40like our poor sheriff and his son who are Muslim. And the son feels the pressure to fit in with everybody and just wants to be with his friends and go that’s because they go to church on Sunday. One of his friends, his friends are the altar boys like that’s what they do. So I want to go to the nightly mass and hang out with my friends. That and there’s a whole Link Keller 17:04as someone who’s gone who has gone to mass before, which also, this is probably revealing some ignorance on my part. I didn’t realize there were rules about taking a communion communion. Yeah, I’ve taken Communion before and I’m very much a Jew. Lara Taylor 17:23Uh huh. Uh huh. And you didn’t burn on the spot? Link Keller 17:27I did not I did not Lara Taylor 17:28no lightning came in? Link Keller 17:29No. And nobody was like underhanded mean to me about it either. It was very interesting. Have that moment watching that first episode and being like, that’s a thing?? oops Lara Taylor 17:39Yeah, that’s my friends Catholic wedding. And I was one of the first people that was supposed to go up for communion. And because I’ve taken Communion before, but not in the Catholic Church. Lutherans are a lot more liberal about who can take communion. So I had to cross my arms and be blessed and walk away. But I Yeah, it’s a it’s a I don’t know. It’s a weird thing. But not a weird thing. It’s one of those things, you don’t have the context. So you don’t know. Josué Cardona 18:10I’m either 90% wrong or 90%. Right about this. If you don’t complete your catechism, then when the priest blesses the the, the the the wafer and the wine it? I guess it’s not. Link Keller 18:30It doesn’t undergo the transformation? Josué Cardona 18:33Yeah, yeah, Link Keller 18:33so I was just getting snacks, Josué Cardona 18:35basically. Yeah. Yeah. I think, again, I’m either very wrong or very right about about this. It’s been a while some time, Lara Taylor 18:43we’ll believe it. Josué Cardona 18:44Yeah. Link Keller 18:45Yeah. I mean, that’s, that’s really the thing, right is like religious is filled with so much ritual that is meaningful within context.…

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Psycho Goreman Oct 10, 2021

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#311: Link convinced Lara and Josué to watch comedy horror movie Psycho Goreman. The family dynamics and bullying add depth to the characters and make the movie surprisingly relatable. Transcript Josué Cardona 0:11Welcome to GT radio on the Geek Therapy network here Geek Therapy we believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves is through the media we care about my name is Josué Cardona. I’m joined by Link Keller Link Keller 0:22sup freaks Josué Cardona 0:27and Lara Taylor. Lara Taylor 0:29I can’t follow that. Hi everyone. Josué Cardona 0:33it’s it’s it’s Halloween month. So Link Keller 0:37spooky season! Josué Cardona 0:37spooky season. So I think it’s time we start. We start visiting some some some horror movies. Link Keller 0:45Hahahaha Josué Cardona 0:47And I think I think it’s a it’s an excellent choice to pick 92% rated on Rotten Tomatoes guaranteed to be a classic shutter original PG psycho Goreman. Link Keller 1:05Whoo. heck yeah! Josué Cardona 1:07is that is that? Is that what we’re talking about today? Link Keller 1:10That is what we are talking about today. Psycho Goreman is streaming on shutter exclusively, though they do have physical copies you can buy to add to your collection of blu rays, which I suggest because this movie is fantastic. And I love it. For longtime listeners of the show, you may know about me is that I love horror movies. And I love spooky season. And so every year I take this opportunity to force Josué and Lara to watch something that they probably would never ever watch. Otherwise. Lara Taylor 1:49I do like me some spook, but you picked one that I would not watch on my own. Josué Cardona 1:55You you’ve converted me from it’s been I was I was I filled out a profile for something recently. I was like, Oh, do you like horror movies? I was like, Yes, I do. Link Keller 2:05aw! Josué Cardona 2:05I do actually. Yeah. Link Keller 2:07you came around Josué Cardona 2:07So yeah. Now I just now just I’m asking everybody for recommendation Link Keller 2:12three years later Josué loves horror. Josué Cardona 2:15Yeah. Yep. Link Keller 2:17Excellent. Josué Cardona 2:18Yeah. Link Keller 2:18Yes. So psycho Goreman. It is a very fun, silly. Gore rific horror movie. It is more silly than horror. Lara Taylor 2:34Oh, definitely. I had to like, I was like, I can’t watch scary things when Nina’s around. And this one she could have she could have watched this one. Most definitely. Link Keller 2:46I was when I mentioned it. I was gonna say like, this might be something that Nina would enjoy. But I didn’t want to gamble on it because I don’t write I don’t want to give Nina, like nightmares, Lara Taylor 2:55right. But she came in when I was watching it and into the office and was like, oh, and started to walk away. And this is your fine and it was just the gore. It was great. It was beautiful. Link Keller 3:07Yes. Josué Cardona 3:08One of the reviews on Rotten Tomatoes says an 80s throwback that asks the question, what if et starred pinhead? psycho Goreman is a bonkers horror comedy that lovingly sends up the cheapo genre flicks of the era. It’s a good it’s a good that convinced me. Yeah. That’s my review as well. Link Keller 3:31That is probably my favorite thing about psycho goreman is all of the practical effects. The writer and director Steven Kostanski who is known for doing special effects makeup stuff you might recognize his work in. It, the first Suicide Squad, hannibal. Josué Cardona 4:02Like the new It Movies? Link Keller 4:03the new the new it movies. Josué Cardona 4:08Hannibal Link Keller 4:09Hannibal? Yeah, he did some makeup work on that Josué Cardona 4:13the series of the movie. Link Keller 4:14The series, okay. Josué Cardona 4:17Okay, yeah, yeah. Link Keller 4:18And then he was the director for the void, which came out in 2016 which is a movie I also really enjoyed. Though I think psycho Goreman is more fun and more accessible to people who don’t already consume a ton of horror. Yeah, but psycho Goreman really fun. Amazing practical effects puppetry. I just I just I just love the puppets. There’s so good. This skull the brain in the jar. Love that guy. The big bucket of body parts the big metal bucket of body parts. Oh, the boy He turns into a big brain. Big wet puppet. I love it but yeah, it’s the basic story is our two main characters Mimi and Luke. They are older brother younger sister and their parents. And Mimi and Luke are playing a game called crazy ball that they made up. And after the game, they are digging in the backyard and they discover an ancient alien. prison block a box anyways, they release an ancient evil who is bent on destroying the whole worlds and the universe and all things all lights all life. Josué Cardona 5:47Rita Repulsa. Link Keller 5:49Very, very much. Yes, that is actually a major reference point is Power Rangers stuff like if you liked Power Rangers as a kid, this is for you. But yeah, so they they release this ancient evil. But it turns out that because they have this gem of power that they can control him. Then they name him they named him psycho Goreman, great, great scene where they pick out a name for him. And they do some shenanigans. And then other aliens get involved because he’s a psycho Goreman’s a real bad guy. And so then it becomes sort of a, an intergalactic war is kind of happening. And it’s just sort of their family dealing with that. And I think it is really fun movie. Obviously, I’m mostly there for the humor and the puppets and the wet Gooshie Gore stuff is very funny to me. But there’s also some some, some stuff about families and I think there’s space to talk about some things. But yeah, so what did you guys things were your initial impressions experience? Hmm. How did you how did you enjoy it? Lara Taylor 7:07I liked it a lot. It continues my there has to be a child I hate in every horror movie I watch. I just wanted to strangle Mimi, every time. Every time. I don’t like her. But it was it was great. I loved the humor. I personally like gore in my movies. I don’t. I don’t know. It’s um, this was beautiful. And not like, I don’t know, I could watch it without. I like the gore. But usually I have to like flinch sometimes and look away for a second. But this was just like, it was so fake and beautiful. And, you know, cars running over body parts and heads exploding. And it was so fun. And I definitely appreciated. Like it looked well done. For a like, B movie. C movie. Something is great. I loved it. And like you said, lots of family stuff to talk about in there. Definitely. But I hate the kid. Josué Cardona 8:23you Don’t like Mimi. Not even a little bit? Lara Taylor 8:25Not at all. Josué Cardona 8:26No. I mean, you know what about Lara Taylor 8:28she’s just like my best friend and in elementary school and I hated her too. Link Keller 8:32Well, is Mimi is Mimi worse than the kid from the babadook? Lara Taylor 8:37They’re different. Josué Cardona 8:40So so but But what about all the times that Mimi has a chance to do the right thing Lara Taylor 8:45and doesn’t? Josué Cardona 8:46how do feel about her then? And never does? Lara Taylor 8:48Never does the right thing? And there’s a scene there’s a scene. So it pissed me off. There’s like the point where he, Luke is like, you never said you’re sorry. And then she just starts singing a song and I’m like, What the fuck? That’s not sorry. Why are you like, Why are you falling for this Luke? And then she does her little knocking thing to say I’m sorry. But it sounds to me like the half assed apology that she like told psycho Goreman wasn’t an okay apology earlier. She’s not sorry. I don’t like her. She reminds me of my best friend in elementary school who was a bully, So Josué Cardona 9:35yeah, yeah. So I mean, I thought it was hilarious. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it so much. I did not. I don’t know why I didn’t. I did not expect it to be a comedy. Like I didn’t read anything about it. You’re just like watch it. I was like, Okay, Psycho Goreman, let’s say let’s see, what is that? And I laughed so hard. So much, and mimi was a big part of it. But um, but I kept I kept thinking throughout the movie, whatever. About times I’ve had clients who, who liked horror films and like they liked them for different reasons. And it’s really I mean, it’s just like everything we talked about, right? Like, there’s something that you like. And then in it, you can see all these things, you can see yourself you can relate to it. And there’s so many things moving at different levels that I that I can imagine some of my past clients like bringing up and like it resonating with them like me, and you just brought up like, Mimi is so much like my best friend from school. Right? And, and Mimi, Mimi is a terrible person, right? There’s even even Link Keller 10:39she is a little shit. Josué Cardona 10:41There were times when I was like, at first I was like, Oh, this kid is hilarious. But like halfway through the movie, I was like, This is perhaps the greatest villain I’ve ever seen. Lara Taylor 10:52I’m going to destroy the world just because Josué Cardona 10:56like, like, PG has like Psycho Goreman, PG, for sure. Like, he has some some like depth. Right? Like, they’re like, he has an origin story. They’re like reasons, right? Lara Taylor 11:05for his anger and all of that. Josué Cardona 11:07Yeah. But like, even even even Mimi’s father who is like, another waste of space Link Keller 11:15cannot wait to talk about him. Josué Cardona 11:16Yeah. But even even him, like you could come up with some reasons for like, maybe why he’s this way Lara Taylor 11:22right? unhappy maybe work sucks. Yeah, Josué Cardona 11:26I can, I can think of ways he was raised. You know, things his parents did or didn’t do that have created that and, and but Mimi’s just like the most one sided like uncomplicated, like just Oh, and so I think it’s really easy to project a whole bunch of like, terrible experiences onto that character. Because it’s just oh, just so selfish. Just Lara Taylor 11:58doesn’t care who dies. Like. Josué Cardona 12:03I think just even even just the way that like, PG would be telling stories about, like, his origin and like and right. And then suddenly, like, you’re, you’re seeing these stories play out. Take some of it is like, super interesting. Lara Taylor 12:16and She’s like, haha don’t care Josué Cardona 12:19she’s like, Oh, should we move the baking? But she’s not even listening. I’m bored. Right? It’s like, she’s that. That Lara Taylor 12:28that was my friend in elementary school. Link Keller 12:32She is very bossy, Lara Taylor 12:33and I was very much Luke Josué Cardona 12:37There’s even there’s like that scene that you mentioned. Where? Right? It’s like, you never apologize. And then she just does something. So out of left field, right? Like in the context of as a as a movie watcher who’s like, enjoying the movie. I’m like, This is so ridiculous. And I’m just laughing because I think it’s but like, if I put my GT hat on, and I think about it, I’m like, this. This is like, gaslighting. This is like, like, just doing something so weird and crazy, right? That you’re just like, I don’t even know what’s happening anymore. Right? Like, what is this person doing? But she’s also like, as much as she is just like a terrible person. She’s super charismatic. Right? In like, in like a Disney actor kind of exaggerated way. Right? Link Keller 13:30She and this actress she she did a fantastic job in this role, but I Josué Cardona 13:36hope she gets an oscar Link Keller 13:36she so perfectly represents the real life experience I’ve had where there are, like you said charismatic people who bully people who are mean, people who don’t care what other people think or their needs or wants or anything, but they’re funny. And so part of you is like as long as they’re not doing it to me, Josué Cardona 14:02you follow them Link Keller 14:03I have enough space here where I can laugh at it. It’s funny, it’s engaging, I’m enjoying myself, but then it gets directed at you and you’re like, Wait a second. That’s That’s me and my feelings are hurt. Yeah, and I felt like I’ve met people like that in real life. That is not that is not a fake character. That is not real. I have met people like that and Lara Taylor 14:24it’s not fun. Link Keller 14:26I it is it is not fun, but it is interesting to see her in the context of her family. I do find it really interesting that both of you guys took the the apology scene the way that you did because I took that as the this was a breakthrough moment for her and she she’s not capable of doing the apology the way that literally anybody else would be expected to. But she found a way and like the knocking their secret language that they knock on the walls to each other which is such a cute little thing. like, crazy ball is a cute little sibling thing where it’s like they have their secret code language Lara Taylor 15:06that the mom also knows. Link Keller 15:07that the Mom also knows, yes! But having that viewers like It’s like she doesn’t say sorry, but she has found like two ways to communicate to Luke that she is sorry Lara Taylor 15:20but the song is literally frig off! and I don’t care about you. Link Keller 15:25Yeah, but Josué Cardona 15:26Lara just shook her head so hard. It was like, she’s never been so disapproving of anything you’ve ever said Lara Taylor 15:34been knocking I can say, okay, that might be cute, but it’s still like half assed, like PGs. Like I’m sorry Link Keller 15:41it absolutely and strong armed because it’s in like contextually is like, if you say sorry, I’ll do the thing that you want me to do. But the idea being is that she is able to communicate this thing to Luke, and he is able to receive it in that way. And then psycho Goreman goes is this love? And the dads like, yes, sing along and having that be, again, not good, like emotional intelligence. That’s not a real apology. But it does, I think perfectly encapsulates the kinds of arguments that you can get into with your family. And you can resolve an entire conflict without ever actually directly saying it. There’s secret languages of the family of the siblings, where they’re able to get, you know, the conflict, they’re separated, both literally and figuratively. And through this moment that they share, they’re able to reconnect. And I think that that is such a good representation of the way that you can see kids like, get in like a brawl, and they hate each other and you’re like, oh, no, they’ll never recover from this. And then, you know, they play a card game where you slap each other’s hands, and they’re like, yeah, no, we’re best friends again, and I was like, how hand slapping solve the problem? Okay, all right. I guess it’s solves the problem. Okay. Um, Lara Taylor 17:10okay. I think I can get that with like, an incident. But like, this girl has been bullying her brother for his entire life. I’m presuming. And I just, I can’t that poor child I identify with Luke it is. Josué Cardona 17:27I gotta, I gotta, I gotta side with Link on this. Link Keller 17:31I convinced you. Josué Cardona 17:32I’m gonna, I’m gonna say. I think I think it’s, I think it’s a very good example of exactly what you’re saying. Right? I think it is. It’s Link Keller 17:45It’s not what what I would like, real life to be like, right, but I do think that as far as like fictional representations of things that happen in real life like this. It’s it fits, it fits. Josué Cardona 17:58I think. I think it’s useful in that in that context, right. It’s like, I think that was perfect. Right? What you said, but like, we just had a terrible fight. We’re just staring at each other. We almost killed each other. Like, Link Keller 18:16we’ll sing our song. We’ll see our family band song now the song The lyrics are fuck, you are frig off! Lara Taylor 18:23frig off and like, Link Keller 18:24I won’t do what you tell me. Lara Taylor 18:26Exactly.…

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Batman Personality Disorder Sep 26, 2021

Show notes

#310: Josué, Lara, and Link talk about Titans and Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD), Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, and the complexities of getting diagnosed and medicated (in real life and in fiction). Transcript Josué Cardona 0:11Welcome to GT radio on the Geek Therapy network here at Geek Therapy. We believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves is through the media we care about. My name is Josué Cardona. And I’m joined by link Keller. Link Keller 0:21Hello, Josué Cardona 0:22and Lara Taylor. Lara Taylor 0:23Hey, Josué Cardona 0:24welcome to episode 310. Of GT radio. Today, it’s my turn. So I want to talk explicitly about, Lara Taylor 0:36is this an explicit episode? Josué Cardona 0:38They’re all explicit. But we’re gonna explicitly talk about representation of mental health in media, which we talk about all the time, but I don’t think we’ve focus solely on on that topic. And at the very least, we haven’t talked about it in a very long time as the main focus of an episode. And I’ve been wanting to talk about this for weeks. So there’s a show on HBO Max called Titans. It’s the gritty version of the Teen Titans from DC Comics. The the trailer for the show, famously showed Robin kicking some people’s ass in the in the in the alleyway. And someone says like, where’s Batman? He goes, fuck Batman. Right? Is this is? Link Keller 1:31are they teens? Josué Cardona 1:31I think they are. They are Yeah, yeah, they’re, Lara Taylor 1:35I mean, but they’re gritty teens. Josué Cardona 1:36They’re just, yeah, they’re not all teens. Some of them are adults. They’re grown ass adults, some of them. But Lara Taylor 1:45hanging out with teens. Josué Cardona 1:45But that’s what’s called Titans is not it’s not a Teen Titans. So the show is on season three. And there’s an episode called Lazarus, the fifth episode of this season. And the character of Leslie Thompkins who is a doctor that appears in Gotham City Stories. She’s a psychiatrist. And this one, I don’t know, I don’t know that she’s always been a psychiatrist. But she’s a psychiatrist in this version, and she’s talking to Jason Todd. And he, he’s talking about how he wants to be Robin. He has to be Robin. Then the psychiatrist says something. I don’t know. She psychiatrist. I don’t remember now. It doesn’t matter. The point is that she she she knows that Bruce Wayne is Batman. And so she tells Jason Todd, who is Robin currently in the show that Robin is just a projection of a man with borderline personality disorder, like Bruce Wayne, right, then she and she diagnosis and it doesn’t just like says that. And I was so upset when that when that happened. It had been it had been. I mean, Batman stories are the ones that have sparked the most conversations, I think definitely among us, but like in our circles of like, you know, geek and nerd psychology stuff, right? Lara Taylor 3:12What that was Travis langly first Josué Cardona 3:14book, obviously, we wrote a whole book, Batman and psychology. We’ve talked about this a lot. But there’s also like, one of the first things I ever posted on the on the first version of The Geek Therapy website was an article of a group of psychiatrists who were speaking up against DC Comics for always giving villains these, you know, just throw away diagnoses, you know, like the real diagnoses, but like, just completely Lara Taylor 3:43how you write a villain throw a dart at the DSM? Yeah, Josué Cardona 3:46yeah, pretty much. And so. So this bothered me on a number of levels. Okay. That Bruce Wayne would have a BPD first of all, it’s like, that’s never been a thing. First of all, right. And then you could, you could kinda, you could make an argument, maybe that this version of Batman is different. I think every version of Batman is slightly different. And you can do it in a responsible way. But of course, they didn’t do it in a responsible way. Right. They didn’t explain anything. There was there was nothing there. But it was also the way she said it. She didn’t say, you know, you know that your you know, your your caretaker, Bruce, you know, he’s he’s working through, you know, borderline personality disorder. He’s, you know, he’s been working really hard on it. And you know, sometimes he just happens and it there was no like compassion to it. There was no there was nothing about like, it was like, That guy’s got BPD like, why are you listening to him like it was just so so. It was just very negative the way that it was used, but also it doesn’t explain what BPD is, right? It just it just kind of by that connotation alone, like, if you don’t know what it is, it’s like, oh, that must be really bad. Um, I want to tell ya, that’s Lara Taylor 5:11very different from saying something like, he’s treating you unhealthily. Like, don’t listen to him. It’s like, throwing you out there a diagnosis Josué Cardona 5:20this guy, he’s got BPD you don’t you don’t wanna you don’t want it? Lara Taylor 5:23You can’t listen to those people. Josué Cardona 5:24can’t listen to those poeple. Yeah, pretty much. And I mean, like, I like this version of Batman has done things that most versions of Batman Lara Taylor 5:33wouldn’t do or haven’t done Josué Cardona 5:34haven’t done yet. Right. And I’ll leave it at that. I don’t I don’t love this version of Batman. But it’s, it’s, it’s okay. It’s a different version of Batman. Lara Taylor 5:49It’s also not the Batman show. Josué Cardona 5:52Yeah, I mean, yeah. But it’s definitely it’s definitely not crazy ex girlfriend. Let me tell you about how crazy ex girlfriend brought up a BPD diagnosis. Okay. When they did it in their season three. Okay. Rachel goes to her to her therapist, in a not great way. Right. But she doesn’t she she asked her therapist, like about this diagnosis. She doesn’t she doesn’t understand if she doesn’t like it. And the show proceeds to let the therapist go one by one through the checklist of all of the symptoms, right? Lara Taylor 6:35And then it flashes back to her stuff, right? Josué Cardona 6:38She’s going through them she’s identifying with each point, showing moments throughout the show that demonstrate that behavior. And then at the end, right, there’s this there’s, there’s that moment of where she’s like, oh, like I meet all nine criteria for that, right? Link Keller 6:58Yeah, Dr. Akopian, correctly specifies that for diagnosis, you have to meet five of nine. And Rebecca goes, Oh, shit, I got I got nine of nine. I am winning this one. Yeah, the champion of this one. Oh, no… yaay? Josué Cardona 7:17But like the fact that a show took the time to walk through actual, you know, diagnostic criteria, and not just say a word, say a thing. I have I mean, we could, we could and we probably should start a whole show on on crazy ex-girlfriend stuff that goes on there. But that that is right, these are polar opposite examples of something right. And I mean, the Batman example, the Titans example bothers me so much, because it’s Batman too. It’s not just like some obscure character that like people know, it’s like, Bruce Wayne is an archetype or they like people, even if you’ve never seen a Batman movie or, or don’t like characters Lara Taylor 8:02you know, Bruce Wayne is Josué Cardona 8:03you have a general idea. And and that idea is also because there’s so many stories, right? Like to some people Batman is a certain like, when I just talk about Batman I am. I say a lot of good things about the character. Other people say a lot of bad things about the character we’ve talked about. He’s definitely violent. Right? But like, if you go into like, we could argue we can have like a super fight just on Batman, right? And the different versions of it, right? Lara Taylor 8:34I’ve seen that on several Comic Con panels. Josué Cardona 8:40Right in I’m not even talking about diagnosis, I’m just talking about like, the character and what he does and what he stands for, and things like that. So to just do that, and just make that connection, right. Like if somebody if somebody has no information about BPD now they’re like, oh, that’s what BPD is, like, Batman. There’s, there’s, that’s not helpful. And, and for something like that. Now, another reason why like it personally affected me is because I’ve been working with my own therapist, and we’re kind of settling on BPD makes a lot of sense based on a lot of things that the that I’ve been working through. And the Rachel episode, right, that episode of crazy ex girlfriend was super validating that episode of Titans was infuriating because BPD is is is something that like isn’t as well known as you know, we’ve had this conversation about depression and anxiety and just the many different ways that that looks and and to the point also that you that you just brought up, link, about how you need to be five of the nine diagnostic criteria. I forgot how, how many combinations that is, but you can have out of nine different things, you only need five to meet the criteria Lara Taylor 10:02you only have to meet like half of them Josué Cardona 10:04but you can meet up to nine that means that it can represent you know, it can present in like Lara Taylor 10:10so many different ways, Josué Cardona 10:12like fifty different combinations, right of all of the symptoms and still meet the criteria. So it shows it looks very different there isn’t, it’s very hard to say, oh, that’s, that’s BPD, right. It’s like it’s a it’s a complex, because of those nine steps, or those nine different criteria. It can represent it can present very, very differently in different people. And it’s just Lara Taylor 10:35the show with crazy in the title was the one that was validating. Josué Cardona 10:40I mean, they they’ve done a lot of things. I mean, that was that was just such a good thing. And and Titans doing it is just I was like, Jason Todd is seeing a therapist. And I was like, this is going great. This is good. I think I’m going to talk about this on the show. You know, whenever there’s there’s mental representation, I think it seems good to me. And then like She not only like completely just violates Bruce Wayne’s privacy and is just like sharing his diagnosis. She She’s, it’s a it just like it turned the whole this whole positive thing into and just flipped it. And that happens a lot. I know. But these are these are like two just incredible examples of, of a good way to do it or in a bad way to do it. And to think that, you know, we’re we’re still doing that. Thoughts? Link Keller 11:46I really love crazy ex girlfriend, I just last week finished a complete rewatch of the Four Seasons and highly, highly recommend it. It is such a great show. It is very funny. It has great music, some real ear worms, some very deep and meaningful songs. But definitely, I think that the way that they treats Rebecca, and her relationship with Dr. Akopian, her therapist and then later with Dr. Dr. Damn. Dr. Shin is her psychiatrist. And then her group therapy with other other people with BPD. I think the way that they treat that stuff is both perfect within the story arc that they are telling about this character and her journey. But also it is so kind towards like this is this yes, this is comedy. This is a fantasy. This is fiction. This is make believe storytelling, but real people exist in the world in our real lives with these kinds of problems, and they aren’t the joke. That’s not the joke. I think that the show is just so wonderful for handling it that way. Lara Taylor 13:09And even when she is the joke, because the show is I mean she’s the main character. She does a lot of ridiculous things. But it always comes back to you care for her and care and like not in a pity way. Like it’s very wonderful. I love the show. So good. I’m glad you all made me want to watch it I don’t know. I I haven’t watched Titans. But I don’t like what you’ve described Josué Josué Cardona 13:44don’t like it. You don’t like it. No, no. Doesn’t sound good. Doesn’t doesn’t get texted you the moment that I watched that episode, didn’t I? Lara Taylor 13:53Maybe Josué Cardona 13:53I was like titans just just gave Bruce Wayne BPD diagnosis. Lara Taylor 13:59That’s right. I was like I’m not watching it. This is dumb. Link Keller 14:03In the in the DSM five revised, the B no longer stands for borderline it stands for batman Lara Taylor 14:11to be diagnosed with Batman personality disorder Link Keller 14:14nooooo Lara Taylor 14:20Yeah. Link Keller 14:24It’s just it’s, it’s, it’s such an obvious like a lack of caring. just the idea of being like, oh, BPD like people have sort of heard of that probably. Or if they haven’t, like, it sounds scary. So we’re just gonna use it and it’s scene setting, instead of being like, meaningful and just throwing it at somebody else who isn’t in this. It’s very weird. That’s a weird setup. Josué Cardona 14:57There’s not there’s also no reason to Use an actual diagnosis Lara Taylor 15:02no his behavior alone. Link Keller 15:04It’s not ethical. It’s not something a therapist or psychiatrist should do, like, out, out of your wheelhouse in the moment Josué Cardona 15:11it’s just like, lazy in general. And also I don’t understand the need. I think this really bothered me in Star Trek Discovery, there was an episode where I think I may be remembering this wrong, but I think there was something about trauma, and I believe they use PTSD. And I was, like, 400 years into the future, like the DSM, like, we haven’t gone beyond that, like, there’s nothing, we don’t, we don’t have a better, there’s nothing else that you can, there are no new diagnoses, like three 400 years into the future, you know, like, you couldn’t explore something, if you’re just gonna use a throwaway Josué Cardona 15:23we used to call it shell shock, right? Like, Josué Cardona 15:53like, when they make a medical diagnosis from alien planets and stuff like that, right. But when it comes to mental health, it feels lazy. It’s almost, it’s almost like, you know, there’s no reason why you can’t be creative about it. Like, you can just make something up. And you and you don’t, and then you use these terms, that, that people that affect people’s lives on a daily basis, and, and contribute to a to a type of stigma, that, again, it could go, it could be good or bad. But it’s just, you know, just lazy, right? It’s like, did you I don’t know why this example came to my head. And I don’t know if this is actually true. But it’s like a Borat in Kazakhstan, like Kazakhstan is a real country, right? Like the one that he represents there. Right. And, and I don’t how many people know, that, like, the only version of that is, is is what Borat showed, or what he’s saying. And, and that happens, right? Like how many people this is the first time they’ve ever heard borderline personality disorder, or had it connected with a character that they know well, and now they have this, this assumption, that oh, the character, and then you have, you know, just as lazy think pieces of people who have who know nothing about mental health, with headlines like Titans confirms that Bruce Wayne has borderline personality disorder, or other articles that are just like, oh, you know, we have a diagnosis for Bruce Wayne. And then they’re going through like the Wikipedia article, you know, like experts going through, you know, trying to explain why cuz I’m like, Oh, this is this is it. This is part of the problem. This is this is what you’re creating, when you do that with a character like Bruce Wayne, they could have done it with any other character on the show. And it wouldn’t have been I mean, there’s a lot of actually, there are characters there that are that are very well known and would have caused a similar situation, but it didn’t. There was there was no reason to do it. And I’m sure I’m, there’s a criticism that I’ve seen of Titans often is that they do things in an episode and then they never ref reference it ever again. And I wouldn’t be surprised if this never c…

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Pandemic Coping Sep 19, 2021

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#309: This episode discusses Brooklyn Nine-Nine and a Vice article on burnout and resilience by Shayla Love, but it’s mostly Link, Lara, and Josué processing burnout and how they’ve been coping during the pandemic. Transcript Josué Cardona 0:11Welcome to GT radio on the Geek Therapy network here at Geek Therapy, we believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves is through the media we care about. My name is Josué Cardona. I’m joined by Link Keller Link Keller 0:20Hello Josué Cardona 0:22and Lara Taylor. Lara Taylor 0:23Hey there. Josué Cardona 0:25Anybody here burnt out? Link Keller 0:28Pick me. It’s me. I’m I am. Josué Cardona 0:31You burnt out? I’m pretty burnt out. Lara Taylor 0:35I’m less burnt out than I was six months ago. Josué Cardona 0:39While I’m happy for you. Lara Taylor 0:41I’m still exhausted Josué Cardona 0:45I, I burnt out harder than I think I ever have. Recently, and but it’s like, it’s obviously it’s obviously the accumulation of it. Right? Like, stuff, stuff. Filled the cup. And it way too much too many things came in at once. Lara Taylor 1:11It was overflowing. Josué Cardona 1:13It was too much it spilled over Lara Taylor 1:15like someone shook up the soda. And it was into your cup. Josué Cardona 1:19Yeah, yeah. It was not. It was surprising. Almost like how, how hard I fell. How burnt out I was. Am I’m still I’m still it. I think I think it hit people in different ways at different times. But um, yeah, and I mean, that kind of just affects everything. Which is the kind of try to keep going and um, and so link you want it you chose this this this uplifting, joyful topic today. Why exactly? Link Keller 1:58Well so um, we we take turns picking topics on GT radio, there’s three of us we take turns is rotating. That gives you a couple of weeks to plan your next topic of choice. And, you know, sometimes we keep it loosey goosey and go for, you know, current events and sometimes returning to old favorites. But generally speaking, we’re trying to do you know, the Geek Therapy method, we’re talking about media we care about and celebrating how it helps us better understand ourselves and other people. And to be entirely honest, I have not felt celebratory in a long time. And every time it has been my turn to pick a topic, I have struggled to pick something. Because I’ll have ideas, you know, as I’m scrolling through Twitter, or watching Tik toks, or whatever, I see things all the time media that I have a strong emotional response to and I want to talk about a be something interesting to talk about it, but it is frequently upsetting. rage inducing, extremely depressing. And that is that’s not the vibe, that’s not the vibe that we’re going for here. Not, you know, not that we’re always 100% positivity, because that can be pretty toxic, too. But that’s not that’s not what I want to bring. But it has been really hard lately, I feel. not lately, this past two years, honestly, I was having, you know, a series of unfortunate events before COVID happened. So I never really got opportunity to sit down and reflect and process all of the series of shit that was happening. And then COVID And individually there, there have been, you know, moments where I’ve been okay, and I’ve felt fine. But overwhelmingly, it has been awful, and traumatizing. And I feel like I’ve not gotten the chance to I keep seeing these these jokes on on Twitter people posting memes about like, Haha, you know, we’re three months away from 2022. And I’m still processing March 2020. And it’s like, Haha, a joke, but I’m like, I feel that way sometimes. Like, when it’s like, oh, yeah, that was, you know, a year and six months ago that we went into our first lockdown. And at the time it was, you know, scary and we didn’t know what to expect and we didn’t know how long it would last and now Many things have changed but many things are still the same. We don’t know how long it’s gonna last. There’s so much uncertainty about it. It’s awful. And I’m, I am burnt out, I I’m burnt out, I’m I’m exhausted. And I tried to come up with another idea for a topic this week. But I think I was speaking with Josué and had the realization that I think that we just we need to talk about it avoiding it isn’t going to make it any easier for me. So yeah. I’m burned the fuck out Josué Cardona 5:37Remember two weeks ago when I had an idea, and then when we showed up, I was like, Yeah, I’m just angry. And I wanted to talk about how angry I am. And I think we better not record because I’m angry about my job. I’m angry about the world. And I don’t think I don’t think this is going to end up as something that I would, I would, uh, would be beneficial to anybody. It was. And so we didn’t even record that night. Um, one thing, one thing you just said, makes me I hadn’t thought about. I hadn’t thought about how hard it is to be optimistic right now. And, like, we just did the 10th anniversary a couple months ago. And there was like, momentum. And I’ve been thinking about, like, why it was so hard to keep celebrating and like, keep moving forward. And I think I think this, this is probably a big part of it. I think it’s, it’s a combination of things, right? I have media examples that I’ll bring up. I will start with Brooklyn, nine, nine. Y’all remember when we talked about Brooklyn nine, nine last year. And it was like, I wonder how they’re going to come back? What are they going to do? Brooklyn nine, nine came back. And it’s weird Link Keller 7:07that seems so fucking long ago. Josué Cardona 7:09It was a long time ago. My mind is back. And it is so weird. I remember saying in light of George Floyd’s murder, there’s no way like, what are they gonna do? Are they just gonna come back and just pretend like nothing happened? Are they going to come back and like all quit and be social workers. Link Keller 7:27I still I still wish. If I could if I could do a genie wish is Undo Brooklyn nine nine from being a show about cops to being a show about post office workers. You can have the same characters, nearly the same situations. Perfect. You can even use a lot of the same sets like it’s right there. And it’s not cops. Josué Cardona 7:51So So Have either of you seen the new then the new season? Lara Taylor 7:56I haven’t watched any brooklyn nine nine. Josué Cardona 7:57So so so. So the show so Lara Taylor 8:00so I don’t have to be disappointed. Josué Cardona 8:02No, but this is just an example of how weird it is. Right? Because it’s pretending it’s trying to be what it was before. But also it can’t be. And so in the first episode, Rosa quits, Rosa, Rosa is no longer a cop. And they’re definitely moving towards way more roadtrip episodes and private life stuff. They’re moving away from that and the police, it’s in the in the police officers themselves. They’re like, they’re trying to run a program to you know, reform police policing throughout the city. But they, they’re still cops, and they’re still policing. And there’s Link Keller 8:43and it’s still a comedy show. So like trying to grapple with those ideas and be funny?? Josué Cardona 8:49There was one episode where they had a moment where like it, they have a speech where they’re like speaking against police brutality, and then they had to follow it up with a joke because it’s a sitcom. And it feels like this, the show cannot survive after the season, because it just feels too weird. You know, and I feel it watching that show feels like living right now. It’s like, we’re Link Keller 9:17i think its weird. Josué Cardona 9:18Especially right now everybody having to go back to work Lara Taylor 9:20the filter Josué Cardona 9:21the office, like Lara Taylor 9:22isoff like it’s the world but like some filter is, Josué Cardona 9:25it’s like, oh, you know, let’s celebrate coming back to the office. And it’s like, woah woah woah, you want to pretend like nothing happened. You literally want to go back to how things were before it. You cannot. It’s impossible. It’s impossible. Right? And like we’ve done, and it’s so many little things, right? Like last week. A few days ago, Shang-chi came out. I bought tickets. I couldn’t go I didn’t do it because like we’re still in the middle of pandemic. Like, I used to get sick all the time. I’m I don’t want to get sick. I don’t know I don’t want it Take a chance like this stuff is still happening. I was I was gonna go to Gen Con with with with a lot of friends, GT friends. I can’t I just like I just had a conversation with Woody. I was like, I can’t, I can’t do it Josué Cardona 9:49But I was surprised you got the tickets in the first place. Josué Cardona 10:18I’m too but I didn’t. Because you try to be hopeful, right? You’re Lara Taylor 10:23right. in California at least there was like a two week window of hope. Maybe like it was great. Everything was wonderful. And then, and then it all hit the fan, no masks and delta at the same time, just like, pew, and then blew away all the plans. Everyone had moved summer plans to fall that we might not we should have just done it in summer. Yeah, Josué Cardona 10:47like Link. You were saying like, Oh, yeah, no, like March 2022. And like, Whoa, what happened? March 2020. I haven’t finished processing that. It feels like that. Right? It’s like, oh, okay, no, checkups by September by September will be good. You know, it’s like, no, September is here. And yeah, no, I don’t I’m not gonna do it. Link Keller 11:06September. Josué Cardona 11:08It’s September, by the way. Lara Taylor 11:09September. Josué Cardona 11:11Yeah. Yeah. Lara Taylor 11:12This is this is quarantine birthday number two. For me. Josué Cardona 11:18Yeah. Yeah. But it’s that weirdness, right. It’s like, oh, no, like things are not. Things aren’t back to normal. And we haven’t talked about it. And we haven’t, like, had another family member die of COVID Two weeks ago, like this stuff is still happening. You know, and we hospitalizations are up, people are getting sick. Plus all the other stuff. There’s ugh it is. Yeah, yeah, but but Brooklyn man has been the one show so far, where it just feels. It’s off. Like I really I really liked the way that this is us went with it. Like they did something very, very. It was impressive to me, where they basically just rewrote right, the beginning of the next season to be like, Oh, okay, like, let’s let’s just add the, the pandemic on top of all of the drama, Lara Taylor 12:15pretty much the same plot, but then Josué Cardona 12:18they’re just like, let’s acknowledge it. Let’s have it be on top of everything else. Right. So we also have the pandemic that Link Keller 12:22which that is like, so much media reflecting reality, right? Because that is what we’re dealing with is like, we still have all of the normal life problems. Lara Taylor 12:35Mm hmm. Link Keller 12:36Plus, Lara Taylor 12:36on top of it, Link Keller 12:37plus this fancy, fun pandemic to add a little pizzazz. ahh Josué Cardona 12:43Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, and it’s, I appreciated that, because it was like, oh, yeah, no, like, this is that feels real. That feels like, they acknowledged it, and they just again, added on top of it, and that it felt great. And I was surprised to see like the show come back. And they kind of just did like slight retconning, where they were like, the last scene that you saw was right at the beginning of 2020. And, and and so they hadn’t talked about COVID. But it was on the news. You know, it was just Lara Taylor 13:16like, it really wasn’t in real life. Yeah. Yeah. Like some of Josué Cardona 13:19us were like, what covid What is this? What’s this thing? Yeah, it’s not gonna it’s not gonna affect us here. And and then, yeah, it’s, it’s um, Lara Taylor 13:29it is interesting to see the wait like media addresses like, I am a huge medical, drama procedural person. I watched Grey’s Anatomy I want Chicago Med, Chicago Med. They’re projecting where they thought this this last season that they did all during the pandemic, they were projecting where they thought we would be wearing masks when they were out in the public, with with people occasionally, going into the hospital and like you get tested, and then you don’t have to wear a mask inside all of that. Grey’s Anatomy went all in. They had an episode that now it has impact, but less impact now that we know that people are still getting COVID with the vaccine, but they finally they had an episode where they had finally I think it was they were the season finale. They were going through different months of the year. And they went through the part where they were giving medical workers the vaccine, and they were crying, and I was crying. And it was a wonderful episode. And some of the ways that we’re able to keep I think you don’t want to pay your actors and then cover their faces all the time. So they worked around that by giving them like hazmat suits that you could, like, see their faces through. But they covered it all. People screaming about the COVID isn’t real, they covered anti vaxxers. They covered all kinds of stuff, and it’ll be interesting to see how that plays out with both of those shows in the next season. that’s coming up pretty soon. Josué Cardona 15:03I think how many of these shows are gonna show what we’re talking about where it’s like the long term effects, you know, Lara Taylor 15:12one of the characters in Grey’s Anatomy, especially being a healthcare worker, but it I think was also could be applied in general. She was just like, I can’t, I can’t do this anymore. And she just like froze during medical procedures and just like, one It stayed in bed for a couple of weeks, because it had been Link Keller 15:32too much. Josué Cardona 15:34Yeah. Yeah. I am, I am furious about the the return to office stuff. I know a lot of people are for a number of reasons. For a number of reasons, but um, but I think I think in general, it’s just that right, like the, the pretending, or the, or the, the even just the wanting to write it’s like, I think we, we haven’t talked about this in a while. Right. We haven’t had like a, like a retrospective to look back. Link, You’re you’re listening to some of the older episodes, right? And you’re hearing the old us thinking about what the future might be, and like how we were handling it, then. Any, any thoughts on that? Link Keller 16:27I mean, I can’t speak to, you know, your guyses internal experience, but I can, I can hear the hope leak out of my body over time. Just, it’s, you know, that that high pitch sound of when you have a balloon and you stretch the mouth open so it comes out real. [whistles] Yeah, that that’s, that’s all the optimism. Having left my life. That’s not true. I’m just I still have hope. I’m not completely hopeless. Which maybe in of itself is a good sign from where I was two years ago. unmedicated i doing better now, but I am exhausted. It has been so long. And it just it feels like they we haven’t caught a break. in so long. Yeah, listening to those those earlier in the pandemic episodes and, and us, you know, foolishly hoping like, oh, yeah, this is just gonna be a couple weeks, couple months, maybe. Maybe the end of the year? I don’t know. I don’t. I don’t know that we ever straight up like made calls like that. But you could definitely tell like, there was a point where we were like, this isn’t a forever thing. And at some point, none of us believed that anymore. Josué Cardona 18:11Oh, yeah. Yeah. There’s that that that trend on tik tok, when HR comes to the employees like, hey, guess what, we’re coming back to the office. And and the employees like finally, like, Oh, you’re excited about it? It’s like, No, I quit. Link Keller 18:34There’s a comic artist I follow on Twitter who did Like a Zoom meeting? And yeah, the main character is like, hey, everybody’s so excited. Next week, we’re going to start coming into the office part time and it’s like, oh, wait Fanlee, Why are you why are you taking control of this? The screen shar…

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Unexpected Heroes Aug 15, 2021

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#308: What starts as a conversation about The Suicide Squad quickly derails into a larger conversation about what makes heroes unexpected, and why we don’t see many older heroes. Transcript Josué Cardona 0:11Welcome to GT radio on the Geek Therapy network here at Geek Therapy. We believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves is through the media we care about, my name is Josué Cardona. I’m joined by Link Keller Link Keller 0:20hello. Josué Cardona 0:22and Lara Taylor. Lara Taylor 0:23Hey, Josué Cardona 0:24Lara it’s your turn you’re up. Lara Taylor 0:28Our pre show shenanigans made me forget what I’m talking about today. Um, but not really. Uh, so Nina and I were watching the Suicide Squad. Josué Cardona 0:40just Suicide Squad or the ? Lara Taylor 0:42The Suicide Squad. Okay, the Suicide Squad, the new one Link Keller 0:462021 Lara Taylor 0:47So this is a wonderful topic that we’re going to talk about, but um big spoilers for how The Suicide Squad ends. So, um, yeah, you might not want to listen if you haven’t watched it yet. Um, so we’re watching the Suicide Squad. And there’s a whole thing about unexpected heroes like we got some badasses is right. The Rats! Josué Cardona 1:14do we? Lara Taylor 1:16We do. I mean, Harley is pretty badass. Josué Cardona 1:19True, true. Lara Taylor 1:20Harley is pretty badass. And so is Bloodsport? Yeah. But, and then there’s some others that are not so badass. But the most badass of them all is not just the one controlling the rats. What is it ratcatcher 2. But, but But Sebastian and the rest of the rats are the true heroes of this movie. I loved it so much that it was like a simple little animal that was the hero of the movie. And when Josué, when you and I were talking about this, like a week ago or so I had forgotten exactly what the ratcatcher says to ratcatcher 2. But saying something along the lines of like, they’re the lowliest of creatures, but they still have purpose. And I think that that’s something that I can get behind. Like, maybe I’m not the greatest X y&z I don’t know, I’m not the greatest speaker right now, apparently. But I have purpose and I can come up with a good topic. Um, and I thought it made me think of other examples in media of unexpected heroes, but I think it was just cool to know like, the rats are gonna save us in the future. That’s all. Josué Cardona 2:47Yeah, the the line from the father was, it surprised me when my father after watching the movie said that, that part stuck with him? Lara Taylor 2:57yeah cuz your dad is the like, I only want to watch the action parts. Josué Cardona 3:02Yeah. Link Keller 3:04of which there were several great ones. Lara Taylor 3:06Absolutely. Even including the rats. Josué Cardona 3:10I thought it was a very fun movie. And so which is what surprised me that he would give to that. Oh, yeah. No, I enjoyed it. You know, what part I really liked. He talks about, he talks about that, quote, Link Keller 3:21Papa Taika Waititi? Lara Taylor 3:26He’s, he’s our father. Josué Cardona 3:28Yeah. And he was telling me in Spanish, and he’s, you know, and he’s like, saying the part in Spanish and he’s, he was, I think, really, really resonated with him. And I was, I was, so I was very happy to hear that you want us to talk about, you know, that, that idea? Because I wonder how many people it does resonate with, it’s a good reminder. Sometimes you you may feel hopeless or worthless or undervalued, or, you know, through comparing yourself to other people. And yeah, and and you may think, oh, like, I’m not like other people, or I’m not capable of this or that, but that that doesn’t. that’s not helpful Lara Taylor 4:10or other people. Like even if you’re thinking about that about yourself, but like other people’s opinion of you like this whole thing with the rats like they are the lowliest of creatures, right? But they’re also not. I think it made me think of Rocket Raccoon and how people treat him and he is my favorite of the Guardians of the Galaxy. And just like, everyone treats him like just trash and like a Rodent and a trash panda. And he’s the best and he’s a badass with his giant gun, destroying everything. And his dirty mouth. Josué Cardona 4:24I wonder how many people have told them that he’s no good and survived? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, thats a good point, the the idea of them being the lowliest creatures is the Oh society says, or like, like, it’s, this is this is, this is your position in the world as as it has been established, this is what you were born into. And not letting that define you Lara Taylor 5:23that doesn’t mean you don’t have purpose and you don’t have meaning and you don’t have value of your own. Josué Cardona 5:30Or that you can’t save the day it Lara Taylor 5:31or that you can’t save the day and save us from a giant starfish. Josué Cardona 5:36Yeah. Lara Taylor 5:38Or Thanos. Or, you know, another idea. Another concept I thought of was the the T Rex at the end of Jurassic Park. How like, there’s all these humans and like, Oh, we got to escape. Nope, the T rex is the hero and saves everybody from getting eaten by velociraptors. And that doesn’t mean that no one thinks that T rex is the lowliest of the but no one expected the T Rex to save the humans. So Josué Cardona 6:07T Rex has had a lot. We’re much more respected in the 90s, though, than they are than they are today. Lara Taylor 6:13Yeah, you’re right. You’re right. Josué Cardona 6:18Yeah, yeah, I don’t I don’t know. I don’t know what the T Rex. I get where you’re going. But Lara Taylor 6:26it’s a little different. But it’s still like, you can also be an unexpected hero for yourself, for others, whatever. There’s like that cheesy quote. That’s like, what is it to? To the world, you may be one person, but to one person, you might be the world, kind of thing. Rats. You are the rat. Josué Cardona 6:52I mean, we’ve talked about this a lot. tons of stories, right. It’s the it’s the underdog. It’s this person who and in and I think in the context that we’ve talked about before is how it’s it is very often a young, white male figure who’s like not cool, or you know, it’s like a nerd. And then like, Josué Cardona 7:23neville longbottom. Josué Cardona 7:25Yeah. You know, and think oh, yeah, then, you know, they’re there. They’re the Chosen One somehow and, etc. But a lot of those stories, this is this is kind of where my I often I often get upset when we talk about the hero’s journey. It’s this kind of stuff where it’s like, what stories are you basing that on? Right? Like, like, what exactly is that is that trope is that is that a story that you keep retelling? There’s a video on on that’s like a TEDx talk. Where this guy is, hates the hero’s journey, but he’s talking about it as from the point of view of being a father. You know, he has a daughter, he like, that sucks. It sucks. Because one of the stories that we’re looking at were the stories from my daughter to to feel like she can be the hero of a story. And while some of the elements are relatable, taking people completely out of it. And using examples like rats and Rocket Raccoon, I think are helpful because you can you can see yourself in. In any of these characters. Yeah, but it’s easier if it’s not a person that you can that you can see yourself as a as a potential hero. Lara Taylor 8:44Mm hmm. Another example I thought of, that’s even it’s even more different. Is like Lord of the Rings. Everyone that you’re the hero’s journey would have you follow Frodo or Aragorn or whatever, Sam. Yeah, you can see him as the hero but who really saves everything is Gollum. Link Keller 9:06Sam is the real hero. Lara Taylor 9:10Sam is the real hero. But when you think about it, Gollum is the one who causes the ring to be destroyed. He’s the real hero. Josué Cardona 9:21Is he an unexpected Hero? Lara Taylor 9:23Yeah, no one expected Gollum to like, I would expect Sam to be like, No, we’re throwing the ring in there. But no. Gollum is the one that did it. Yeah. Josué Cardona 9:35So what are you thinking? So are you are you thinking of this idea of unexpected heroes as in from like, a third person perspective of seeing like, oh, anybody? Anybody, can do it Lara Taylor 9:47anybody can be a hero. Anyone can have purpose anyone? Even like? Link Keller 9:49[whispers] glorious purpose Lara Taylor 9:55Yes, even loki, but I’m not necessarily talking about anti heroes right. In this situation like, Gollum is not someone who reluctantly Well, I guess he was in the movie. But like, at that point, we kind of forgotten about him. And he’s swings in. He’s not trying to save the day. He’s literally trying to steal a ring and keep it for himself. But I don’t know. So it’s a different situation Link Keller 10:26that’s a accidental hero. Lara Taylor 10:27That’s an accidental hero. Josué Cardona 10:28Yeah, Link Keller 10:28unexpected hero requires there to be some sort of Yeah, outside group that has expectations placed upon these characters. And that’s what the Suicide Squad really fulfills, is like, they’re supposed to be the people that everybody rejected. They’re, they’re, you know, they’re unacceptable to normal society. And the only time that we have any expectations of them doing good is if it is literally the only way that they can, like survive is like, you know, to threaten them. with Violence. Josué Cardona 11:04Right, right. To be to be clear, the hero is is ratcatcher 2, right? It’s not the actual rats, it’s, it’s a member of Lara Taylor 11:12the rat, Sebastian, Josué Cardona 11:15the rat, just to be Lara Taylor 11:16i connected with him more than anyone else in this movie. Josué Cardona 11:19Just to be clear, if anybody hasn’t watched the movie, the rats are controlled by somebody. There’s no I don’t, I don’t think you can be a hero. I don’t think it counts that you’re a hero, if you were under mind control Lara Taylor 11:31which also you can say what you could also say is true of the Suicide Squad. Yeah, Link Keller 11:37Josué. But that that line of thinking is exactly what the politics of the movie is like, Oh, the US is sending out this squad to go deal with an issue. So it’s not these individuals are doing anything heroic, it is an act of the US government, Josué Cardona 11:57uh no the Link Keller 11:59they’re not under mind control, but they do have little things in their head that explode. If they don’t do what they’re told, like that is very close to mind control. You don’t see you don’t see how those line up. that was so intentional! Josué Cardona 12:12Looks like everything that they did before they save the world. Or mind control Lara Taylor 12:19and then they decided screw you we’re gonna go save the world. Josué Cardona 12:22Right? And none of the things that they did before we’re good. We’re heroic. Everything was terrible. Once they once once they decided to be heroes, right, which was which they decided to do. King Shark I guess is just like, following his friends around but but everybody else they decided to do a to be heroic and break out of that. And within them right, like right at the beginning when when Lara when you said some badass characters like, are they? right like you have an expectation of who would be the one and even until the end? Right? You’re like, oh, Harley’s got this, right. Like Harley is the one who’s going to finish this Lara Taylor 13:03and two of the most heroic or the polka-dot man and ratcatcher are the ones that kind of saved it Link Keller 13:10I really liked polka dot man. Josué Cardona 13:12I can’t. i’m not Sure. Link Keller 13:15I was a little bitter, a little bitter. It was very funny. And it was very comic book shit, which is honestly that I that was greatly enjoyed this movie. Maybe not quite as much as birds of prey. But it felt very similar in that like, if DC finally figured out like, oh shit, comic books are supposed to be fun. Who would have thought? So this movie was actually legitimately very fun. And the polka-dot man was a big part of that. Josué Cardona 13:43I wouldn’t put polka dot-man in in the heroic category. though. Link Keller 13:53None of them are really heroes in the traditional sense, Lara Taylor 13:56except Sebastian. the rat who led the way Josué Cardona 13:58Again. even in Even in the framing I Link Keller 14:01we can project that on to Sebastian but because we never gets to find out any of Sebastian’s background or motivations. Like we don’t we don’t know how how mind controlling this is, you know, Josué Cardona 14:13is it is? I think these are important things to sort out. It’s important things to sort out for the point that you’re trying to make otherwise it doesn’t. It doesn’t it doesn’t hit home. Really, the the point that you’re you’re trying to make I think when you have that full cast at the beginning, you have all these throwaway characters, and most of them die its a Suicide Squad. That shouldn’t be a spoiler. But then of the ones you have remaining, like ratcatcher I mean throughout the whole movie ratcatcher is is like they have the they have the ratcatcher 2 write like the name like everything, the power, the ability, everything about the character Lara Taylor 14:55just a copy. Josué Cardona 14:56Yeah, it seems but it’s right, and it seems like throw it like there’s no way that this could be The character like that was really unexpected that they were the ones that save the day. And then you know, like, if you think about it throughout the whole movie like they were, were the most important character. Like the right things along Lara Taylor 15:11and you were expecting more Bloodsport or Harley to be the ones that are Josué Cardona 15:16what traditionally right you would expect something. Something like that. Like they’re set up for for that. But yeah, but she was she was great. She was the Lara Taylor 15:27she was a hero. Josué Cardona 15:28Yeah. Lara Taylor 15:29And the rats. Josué Cardona 15:31Yeah. The rats through her Link Keller 15:35they ar a team, the ratcatcher team. Lara Taylor 15:38Exactly. Obviously, she cares about the rats. Yes, there’s some mind control but she loves them. Link Keller 15:47I literally just watched this does she say it’s actually mind control? is that what she calls it? Lara Taylor 15:53I don’t think it is, I think it’s just like sent like a sound that attracts them. Link Keller 15:57in my heart. It’s just they the little wands thing that she has is just like, a way for her to communicate with them. Right and then like, like a classroom laser pointer. She’s like directing here this direction. Lara Taylor 16:13I think I was leaning more that way too. But that’s just Link Keller 16:17because I have just preferred it to not be mind controlled because mind control is kinda fucked up Josué Cardona 16:26that’s why I want to make the Lara Taylor 16:28I don’t think she controls Sebastian though. I think he is Link Keller 16:31the I mean, they just run out of their way to give Sebastian his own personality and character so it would undermine that to be like no, that’s just her like puppet mastering cute little rat. rats are great. I love rats. I love to see positive rat representation in in film. It’s very important. They they deserve love. Lara Taylor 16:56From the moment of the scene with the dad talking about the rats and their pretend like the lowest creatures and the potential that they have. Till Sebastian came safely out of that star. I was crying during this goofy, action packed movie, I just love him so much. He’s just is it my is it mind control Josué? Josué Cardona 17:24Yes. She controls them. And that’s kind of a whole point when Peter Capaldi is like, Oh, I like that technology. I’ve been working on something similar for humans. Like I want to control. I don’t want to communicate with humans. Yeah, that’s pretty pretty. Lara Taylor 17:40You know what we can have our interpretation and appreciate the movie in a different way. And that is the whole point. That is t…

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The Dinos That Made Us Jul 11, 2021

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#307: The team gushes about their love of dinosaurs and dinosaur related content. Including why dinosaurs have been so popular in media, and how they serve as a cultural touchstone. Transcript Josué Cardona 0:10Welcome to GT radio on the Geek Therapy network here at Geek Therapy we believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves is through media we care about, my name is Josué Cardona. And I’m joined by link Keller. Link Keller 0:19What’s up? Josué Cardona 0:20and Lara Taylor Lara Taylor 0:22Hey, Josué Cardona 0:23hey, Lara Taylor 0:24hey, Josué Cardona 0:25Link, you’re up. What do you what are we talking about today? Link Keller 0:29I want to talk about Jurassic Park. But in sort of a circuitous route, I have been watching lots of Docu series on Disney plus, and Netflix, and I have been watching the Netflix series that is titled The movies that made us and the second season came out recently, just a couple of weeks ago, and one of the episodes is about Jurassic Park. And so they talk about how Jurassic Park got made and how Jurassic Park sort of influenced the film industry after it got made. And it’s very cool. And I love Jurassic Park, and I love dinosaurs. And so that’s what I wanted to talk about with you guys. Josué Cardona 1:17Why do you love Jurassic Park? Link Keller 1:19Um, I saw it as a kid and I thought it was really really fucking cool. And I don’t remember if I was already into dinosaurs before that. Or if that movie got me into dinosaurs, um, I feel like I was already into dinosaurs because I was. I definitely didn’t see Jurassic Park. When it came out in 1993. I don’t think I was quite old enough. I saw it later on VHS tape, Lara Taylor 1:51I’m trying to remember how old I was. Josué Cardona 1:54I did see it in theaters. Josué Cardona 1:55Yeah? I definitely saw the third one in theaters. And I remember it like very much like, I remember. Like the the stupid phone sound that they played and then the dinosaur ate the phone then you could hear anyways, I remember that phone noise like jiggling my whole body in the theater seats. That’s very stuck in my head. But yeah, no, I, I thought dinosaurs were cool. As a kid. It was something I was into. I thought they were so neat. And it was always fun to talk about dinosaurs with other people and like, what are your favorite dinosaurs and I watched Land Before Time as a kid. Josué Cardona 2:33I thought this was gonna be a Jurassic Park conversation. Link Keller 2:38It’s dinosaurs kind of dinosaurs it I am going to keep circling back to Jurassic Park. Because I do feel like Jurassic Park is like, a headliner as far as dinosaur stuff and importance to me, Josué Cardona 2:51S-tier dinosaurs content Link Keller 2:53S-tier dinosaurs. Yeah, yeah. So I remember being really into Jurassic Park as a kid I read Michael Crichton’s Jurassic Park and the lost world as a as a teen I watched the new the New Jurassic World movies when they came out they’re not new now. But when when they were new, I went and saw them. I was not as into them, but I still enjoyed them because it was still dinosaurs. Link Keller 2:56So, why do you like dinosaurs? Link Keller 3:26They’re cool dude. Josué Cardona 3:28I need more. Link Keller 3:29They’re they’re. Lara Taylor 3:30Who doesn’t like dinosaurs? Link Keller 3:32they ride the they ride the line between being like, regular ass animals on regular ass Planet Earth planet Earth animals. Every we see animals all the time. It’s not a big deal. They’re animals. But then also, they’re kind of like mysterious magical monsters because we only experience them through little pieces of fossils and guesses from paleontologist and archaeologist. And and, you know, if theorizing, like what makes sense based on the tiny little pieces of data we have from millions of years ago and it’s just it’s really cool. It’s it’s somewhere in between, like, very real and also very fantasy. And that feels good to me. I love that. I love that space. That and ambiguity, mmmm dinos. Josué Cardona 4:25I, I I’ve only ever had one imaginary friend my entire life. And it was a dinosaur. And Lara Taylor 4:38people can’t see his face, but it’s great. Josué Cardona 4:43That it was um, no, I believe it was a brontosaurus and it was so large but I but it was because it was so large. It my imaginary friend was able to move through walls and stuff. So basically it was like I would be like Like the head would come through the wall. You know, like it was so large it would like it didn’t fit completely in the room. It was able to do stuff like that. Only only imaginary friend. I remember ever having a big old dinosaur. I think I brought this up before and we tried to connect it to Land Before Time and little foot and all that. But it wasn’t though. Wasn’t Yeah, Lara Taylor 5:27it wasn’t little foot. Josué Cardona 5:29No, there was a lot of dinosaur content. In the 90s Lara Taylor 5:35Absolutely. the last dinosaur a there’s a whole bunch of them for dinosaurs. Josué Cardona 5:42Dinosaurs. Lara Taylor 5:43I have that on? I have that on DVD. Josué Cardona 5:46You have dinosaurs Lara Taylor 5:48on DVD Link Keller 5:48wow Lara Taylor 5:50Yeah, yeah. Josué Cardona 5:52The family Lara Taylor 5:53not the mama and my friends and I would play that at school. Like, not the mama and not the mama. That whole thing we would play Land Before Time as well. And Jurassic Park? Josué Cardona 6:05Yeah. Lara Taylor 6:06I used to have like most of Land Before Time memorized and I’m feel a little sad that I don’t have like I have my Disney movies all memorized. Josué Cardona 6:15Yeah Lara Taylor 6:16but I haven’t watched Land Before Time and and Land Before Time went on and on and on. And we dinosaurs might have gone extinct but Land Before Time certainly did not. Josué Cardona 6:28Humans will go extinct. Like whatever it replaces. Humans will still be making land before time movies. Link Keller 6:33I hope so. Josué Cardona 6:35I really like what you said think about it being like, like I like to joke that my favorite animal is dragons. But I know dragons aren’t real. But the closer they Lara Taylor 6:47but are they? Link Keller 6:48but are they? Josué Cardona 6:49Yeah, yeah, like yeah Lara Taylor 6:52Pterodactyl or whatever they’re called now Link Keller 6:56based on what I’ve learned about dinosaurs in the 90s to what I know about dinosaurs now which I’m regularly learning new things because so it turns out Josué Cardona 7:06the dinosaur experts Yeah, exactly. Turns out Link Keller 7:09a lot of that stuff was like we don’t know and we make guesses and it’s being updated regularly Lara Taylor 7:15like now feathers and bird sounds Josué Cardona 7:18that’s old stuff like Link Keller 7:20It’s like from the 90s to now is like they’ve only gotten more Dragon like in my opinion so like dragons maybe Josué Cardona 7:28I love the like the the critique of the New Jurassic Park movies. It’s like, why don’t they have feathers? We know better now. You don’t have to keep making I but the continuity and stuff and they don’t look as cool. It’s like get out here. So there’s the largest remains that have been found of a dinosaur called a titanosaur is that they call it I went to the display in in New York. And this was recent, this is just a couple years ago. Um magical it is. It is. So it is it is like what you said, I think Jurassic Park captures that. That magic perfectly right? Well, you’re so small. And there’s this thing that we know was real, right? existed in some even, even if we don’t have the details, right? The size is right. Right. We know that big so Titanosaur is just so big. And it’s like, well, you both have in California, like I’m assuming you’ve visited the scene sequoias. Right? Yeah. Like you like those trees are like something out of out of a fantasy, right? It’s like, Lara Taylor 8:47you need a person’s picture. You need a person for scale. Otherwise, it could just look like any old tree. You need the person to realize, it’s gigantic. Josué Cardona 8:56Yeah, but like when you’re there, you’re like, you’re like, Honey, I Shrunk the Kids, right? It’s like, who shrunk me. Right? It’s like, how is this thing so big? I’ve never seen a tree the size before it’s impossible. And and like we don’t have things like that in nature and like that’s around us regularly. Like sure there’s like whales that are huge and like then we Lara Taylor 9:16structure them unless you go out in the water. Yeah, yeah. Josué Cardona 9:21But like sequoias are huge. Like, you know, dinosaurs are like that and like the Titanosaur it was that feeling it felt like because I’ve seen Lara Taylor 9:32I have seen replica or actual like T Rex bones. Yeah, natural history museums. Josué Cardona 9:40Yeah. Lara Taylor 9:40How big is the Titanosaur compared to that? Josué Cardona 9:43It’s way bigger. Way bigger. Um, it’s like it’s like standing next to a Sequoia. Like it’s that kind of thing. And you’re like, you’re just like, wait, I mean, it’s it’s not as tall as a sequoia. It’s like, how Link Keller 9:56you’re too big Josué Cardona 9:57it’s that is large Link Keller 9:58too big. Josué Cardona 10:00That is really big. It’s like, but it’s such a cool idea. It’s terrifying in a way. But it’s also so it’s just so cool. And I love that. Yeah, I mean, everything that that that episode of the movies that made us talked about regarding the audience reactions and seeing that in theaters and even the them the the creators of the movie themselves seeing the footage of the T Rex for the first time and like their minds being blown, that they were actually able to pull it off and it look realistic is just like, I kept it because like the whole world felt like that. Like we never like we never Lara Taylor 10:40seen CGI like that. Josué Cardona 10:42Yeah, Link Keller 10:43there had been some some CGI stuff, but nothing like nothing like that. Nothing that went for that kind of realism, Lara Taylor 10:51which by the way, holds up better than a lot of the CGI I’ve seen happened since then. Link Keller 10:57And I do want to say, and they mentioned this in the movies that made us but they were originally using, like stop motion animation for it. And the computer graphics guys were like, look, we’re gonna build like a walking animation of the skeleton and show it off. And they were like, This is really cool. But Lara Taylor 11:18like, you just need to fix the motion. Like, Link Keller 11:21can you can you like, can you fix this. And I think that because they went and utilized all of these practical practical effects you like building big ass robots out of clay and foam latex and stuff like that, and actually having you know, big animatronics. And then also having the CGI and blending those two together, made something so much better than either of those could have done on their own. It’s so cool. And it totally reflects that thing I was talking about earlier with dinosaurs sort of being in between real and fantastical is like they really leaned into that idea of being like, when we’re doing the close up scenes, when the dinosaurs are interacting with somebody that that is a physical piece of machinery that is moving that is being driven by somebody. But then they were like, Okay, now we need it to like, throw another dinosaur up in the air and then catch it. I do a couple of fun chomps like, Okay, we’re gonna we’re gonna use computer for that one. Lara Taylor 12:22Because we’re like the scene, the scene where they first see the dinosaurs, and they have to do all this fake reaction to like, oh my gosh, there’s this big thing. And like when Dr. Grant like falls over on the ground like that was he had nothing to look at Link Keller 12:38It was just an actor acting. Lara Taylor 12:40an actor acting. And then having Steven Spielberg make the noises. Link Keller 12:44That was really I did really appreciate that. That was very funny. Sam Neill is a peach. Josué Cardona 12:54Yeah, I did enjoy that episode a lot. Um, I don’t remember ever watching, like behind the scenes stuff for Jurassic Park. I wish I would have seen it sooner. Because there’s a lot of cool stories there. Link Keller 13:07Right? Josué Cardona 13:08And but there’s something about bringing that stuff to life, right? The scale. I can think of other moments where I’ve also actually, um, it’s like, you watch the movie and you believe you believe something. And it’s like that movie magic of like, I’m believing that this is possible. Reminds me of the tagline for the original Superman movie was you’ll believe a man can fly. And, and it was one of those things where like, oh, like, sure we’d seen people fly in movies before. But it looks so stupid. And it’s like this movie like, No, we, you know, let’s have the Godfather author write the script. For the Superman film. Let’s make sure that it looks realistic. And ironically, it doesn’t look that good now, but at the time, it really did. And there’s something I can think of a few other moments that have that have been like, Oh, this is like they described it like just everything. Nothing will be the same. Like it’s, we’re done. Like we’ve crossed into a new thing. Like I felt that way with virtual reality is the same way like you like you can represent scale and do things that you couldn’t do before, right. And like once you do that once you’re like, oh, oh, wait, what? It’s really like, like, Breath of the Wild. I think to a lesser extent. No Man’s Sky made me feel that way. Well, I was like, oh, Lara Taylor 14:32there’s millions of planets Josué Cardona 14:33fly off this and fly to another one. Yeah. But it was like that experience of like, I’ve never flown off of a planet and then just kept flying fly into another like, it’s this. This stuff that you’ve imagined. I think that’s a part of it, too. Right? It’s like, I had tons of books about dinosaurs. I knew I was I was that kid, right? Like I could I could. I could. I wanted you to test me on my dinosaur knowledge, which that was probably all wrong because As the science was wrong back then, you know. Link Keller 15:01the names of things Lara Taylor 15:03The feathers Yeah, Josué Cardona 15:06yeah, all of it. But but suddenly this. Yeah, but only thing that you imagined was real. Not real real but real. And a part of me still. And, and I bet this happens to both of you. It must, it has, it has happened to so many people, that there’s a part of you it’s like, it seems believable, like how they did it, like, why haven’t we actually done that? Right? Like, like, we’ve cloned sheep. And we’ve we’ve done all this other stuff. Like, I’m always waiting for it to actually happen. And every now and then there’s like, oh, you know, we think we’re gonna splice you know, an elephant with a woolly mammoth DNA that we found. And we’re gonna do it. I’m like, Do it, do it? I don’t care. I don’t care about what happened in the we did do it. Link Keller 15:49I feel like you haven’t watched these movies, Lara Taylor 15:51watch the movie or about science? thing think so focused on whether they could but didn’t really like I think they didn’t? Josué Cardona 15:59Yes, we got to do it Lara Taylor 16:00stop to think if they should. Josué Cardona 16:02But do you believe it’s possible? Just like just? Lara Taylor 16:06Well, there were news articles and stuff going on, when before and after the movie, like talking about cloning dinosaurs and bringing dinosaurs back? And whether we were going to be able to do that and Josué Cardona 16:17do you believe that it’s possible? Lara Taylor 16:20mhmm Josué Cardona 16:20Do you? Lara Taylor 16:21Maybe, Josué Cardona 16:22Link Do you believe it’s possible? And some part of you think they can do that? Or is it is Link Keller 16:27it possible to to create dinosaurs Josué Cardona 16:33do something? Like in the movie? Link Keller 16:36yes, I do believe that it is possible. I agree with the stance of the books and the movies, that it’s probably a bad idea. Becau…

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Learning to Love Your Loki-Self Jun 27, 2021

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#306: Lara, Josué, and Link talk about Loki, self-love, survival, and if it’s even possible to make time loops in multiverses make sense. Transcript Josué Cardona 0:11Welcome to gt radio on the Geek Therapy network. Here at Geek Therapy. We believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves is through the media we care about my name is Josué Cardona. I’m joined by Link Keller. Link Keller 0:19Hello, Josué Cardona 0:20Lara Taylor. Lara Taylor 0:21Hey, Josué Cardona 0:23Lara. Let’s talk Loki What’s up? Lara Taylor 0:26Let’s talk Loki. Loki wonderful show. Amazing Show. Josué Cardona 0:31I’m a fan. I like it. Lara Taylor 0:33I’m big fan. That’s why I want to talk about it. There’s a lot of things that come up in it. Josué Cardona 0:38I hope it’s more than just that. We like it. Yeah, yeah. Lara Taylor 0:41That’s it the podcasts over Josué Cardona 0:43okay. We can do that too Lara Taylor 0:44i like loki. Um, I don’t know about you, but I had a lot of like, existential crises like watching this show. Josué Cardona 0:53Whoa, okay. Link Keller 0:55Explain. Josué Cardona 0:56Yeah, please Link Keller 0:57elaborate. Josué Cardona 0:57The floor is yours. Lara Taylor 0:59I mean, this whole concept of like, determinism, and like, everything is planned out. I think I’ve also been playing, playing and watching a lot of I finished watching Watch. Wow, I can speak today. I finished watching, watching Damn, I can’t come up with words. I finished watching Vikings. And I think the theme of the gods planned things out. Josué Cardona 1:29The same gods, Lara Taylor 1:30the same gods. In fact, one of those Gods is the main character of the show. Um, but a lot. This idea of everything is planned out everything you can’t, like, in some of the final episodes of Vikings too. It was like you can’t go down the wrong path. Right. Like it’s dead. This is how it was designed to be you can’t make the wrong decision. Well, same kind of thing with with Loki except if you do make the wrong decision. You get pruned. Josué Cardona 2:06you Die. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, there’s a it’s like every possibility is possible. Except that Lara Taylor 2:14it’s not. Josué Cardona 2:15If you if you do it, we won’t let that stand. That’s not allowed. It’s it is It was so I don’t know the feeling from hopefully I’ll figure it out by the end of this, of knowing that this, that all of these things that were happening to this Loki were in a way like, potential right that was that was not allowed to, to happen. And Sylvie, Sylvie is even is way way, way more sad, because she was taken as a child. Lara Taylor 2:50And then she’s just existed. She didn’t like try to do anything. Josué Cardona 2:54When we I mean, I don’t think anything like that. You could argue that for all of them. But she was a kid and she survived long enough to like, we don’t know how old she is. Right? We have no idea how long she was traveling, and surviving. And not to mention, like the the trauma that I’m sure it comes from simply existing in world ending event apocalyptic and apocalyptic events. Yeah, over and over again. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So So what’s so you had an existential crisis? Because just like this idea, yeah. Lara Taylor 3:30Well, the idea of like, Are things planned out? And I don’t know, I don’t know. I don’t think they are, but there’s like, what is it? But is it right? Like the matrix, right, like, are we simulation are we guys?? Josué Cardona 3:45I don’t know. I kind of go into a very deep conversation. Lara Taylor 3:48I know. Josué Cardona 3:50But um, so So I had a Lyft driver the other day, and she was like, No, no, I just I believe that everything happens for a reason and you know, like boba and I’m extremely resistant to that. So so you know, I wanted to blow up the the TVA as well. Um Yeah, Lara Taylor 4:09are you a slyvie or a Loki Josué Cardona 4:11Oh, what’s what’s the difference? Exactly? Lara Taylor 4:14Not much. Josué Cardona 4:19Yeah, I Ah, Lara Taylor 4:22not all Loki’s are Sylvie’s but all slyvies are Loki’s. Josué Cardona 4:26Yeah, this is true. So so. So I mean, you know that that’s how I feel about it like so you don’t? Do you believe that? Fate and things like that? Lara Taylor 4:35I don’t, but it’s one of those things where like the thought gets in my head and so many things. We’ve talked about time travel, and things like that before on this show, and like, we can’t go and we and we can’t go back and fix things. And I think this is just a different version of that right? Like there is one way to be there is only one course I don’t I don’t know if I like i don’t i don’t think that things are are meant to be or whatever. But there’s there’s something along the lines of like, well, it happened. And we can’t go back and change it literally here. They can go back and change it. Josué Cardona 5:19Yes and No, no, actually I say no, I can’t go back and change it actually, you can’t Lara Taylor 5:24right it just becomes another branch. Josué Cardona 5:26It just, it just branches off. So you can’t you can’t actually undo anything. Um, they explained this in endgame. Right, right. Right. Right. Back to the Future is wrong. That’s right. Yeah. How do you how do you feel about these ideas? Link, trying to take a guess? But Link Keller 5:45how do I feel about these ideas? Josué Cardona 5:48The idea of, Link Keller 5:49i think they’re interesting ideas, and it’s fun to explore them through visual medium. Josué Cardona 5:54Know that the idea that things are either happen for a reason, or pre determined, etc. No Lara Taylor 6:00meant to be. Josué Cardona 6:03Because God let it happen. You know, God allowed it, because Lara Taylor 6:07the tva let it happen. Link Keller 6:08You’re asking if I believe that in real life? Josué Cardona 6:11No, no, I’m asking what do I believe, period? Link Keller 6:14What do I do? See, these Lara Taylor 6:17are the questions. These are the existential question, Link Keller 6:20I believe, in freewill, I believe in the multiverse, I’m very confused as to why they introduced the concept of the multiverse and then completely abandoned that to instead focus on the concept of a time loop. Josué Cardona 6:42What Link Keller 6:44right, the What do they call it the holy? The sacred timeline is a ring a circle. There’s around Lara Taylor 6:55No, because there’s the end of time. Link Keller 6:59except that they explained beforehand that there is a loop that there is the loop and that that Mobius describes like we’ve watched, you know, we know what your path is supposed to be. We’ve watched you do it 100 times like that is how it is that’s how it’s always been. It’s how it’s always going to be. But then they backpedal on that idea very quickly to be like, Oh, yeah, the end, the end of time is a place that exists. physical space. I don’t know it felt it felt very confusing. So I don’t know. Josué Cardona 7:33That’s that’s I didn’t ask you that. That wasn’t the question like, what Link Keller 7:37i answered your question, That was the first thing you asked? I believe in free will. I don’t I don’t I don’t believe that there is some sacred destiny, where people are just going to do the things that they have to do because God decided that that was the way it’s happening. I don’t believe in that. I don’t think that the show believes in that either. Because it undermines that idea constantly. Lara Taylor 8:02I write it has people have free will. It’s just somebody is telling them that they can’t have the free will. Josué Cardona 8:10I mean, no, Link Keller 8:10no, everybody has free will but. Certain expressions of freewill are then responded to by this bureaucracy. Lara Taylor 8:21Yeah. Link Keller 8:22And they transplant, that freewill into a space where then it can be consumed by a void. Lara Taylor 8:33I think I think there’s a joke about the existence or like I had, my existential crisis was more about that first episode on those Infinity Stones. I’m just saying, I just wasted how many years worrying about these Infinity Stones. Link Keller 8:49I love that scene so much. Link Keller 8:51There were a couple of things that really withdrew a lot of the oomph, from previous Marvel experiences. Lara Taylor 9:02And I think that was like the point of Link Keller 9:04hardcore. Some of its like, okay, that’s fun. This is a fun comic book thing to do. But also like, whooo okay, Josué Cardona 9:13I love the thing, the moment that you see that he’s genuinely in awe of this place. I forgot what he says he’s like, is this the most powerful is this is this the greatest power in the universe? You know, it’s like, in a in a way they do play with this idea of like, if there was a god, this is it, right? Like, like, like, this is kind of, I’m here like, this is the ultimate power. There’s nothing above this. This is literally controls even fate, right? Because the idea like I believe, I’m not an expert in this right, but it’s like the idea of that any Every action is possible and but is also in existence, right? Within quantum mechanics, like there’s a version of every possible every possibility exists in a multiverse, right? It’s like theoretical science kind of stuff, right? So basically, like, they pruned it down to just have one thing, right? And it can never be, never go beyond this, right? And so he’s going through. And he’s like, no, let’s keep this one. Let’s not keep this one. This one, right. It’s like, narrowing it down, narrowing it down or down to that point where it’s just one thing thats six episodes later, like then just in the first episode, Loki is already like this. This is the greatest power in the universe, like what what am I? How can you? How can you fight this? What do you even do against them? Which is why? Early on, he just, he just becomes a part of it. I’m not even, I don’t even I’m not even sure if I’m convinced that he was convinced of what his position was at any point in time. Like, right, he adjusted, he was like, Oh, I better I better I’m gonna survive by just falling in line. And then something changed. He was like, I’m going to move this way. Actually, I hadn’t thought about that. But he, in the beginning, they talked about a glorious purpose. And throughout this entire series, he there was never a goal. Like he and he never stuck to any one thing. Um, I’d love to hear what other people have to think about this. But if he Link Keller 11:30his goal was to dismantle the TVA and he failed Lara Taylor 11:36Well, no, that was a Sylvie’s goal. Sylvie’s goal, his goal may be to be in charge of it. Maybe Josué Cardona 11:43I’m not convinced of that, either. Link Keller 11:44He definitely threw in with Sylvie, he was pretty clear about like, I am choosing you and your motivational drive. Josué Cardona 11:55That wasn’t his initial goal. And it wasn’t his final goal. Like he completely shifted constantly the moment that things changed. he would he would change direction. He was constantly changing direction, even at the end, when there was like, okay, like, there’s actually there’s two options. Let’s not do what what if we don’t do this? Let’s not how about we don’t do that particular thing? Maybe just not yet. He was never Lara Taylor 12:19it just to think about it. Let’s just think about it. Josué Cardona 12:23I hadn’t thought about this. I feel like I really felt for this version of Loki. And now the more I think about it, the more he was just trying to survive and kept just shifting. Again like he had no no guiding principle no Lara Taylor 12:41no glorious purpose Josué Cardona 12:43Yeah, yeah, there was no direction. It was just, it was constantly adjusting. Mm hmm. Lara Taylor 12:54And constantly looking to others for what they wanted and needed and was happy when he was able to help those people like Josué Cardona 13:06yeah There’s Damn, there’s something Yeah, I’m finding something very relatable about this particular loki that I hadn’t thought about before. Yeah, yeah. So so so have you I’m not sure if you explained your existential crises completely. Lara Taylor 13:27Just like Well, there’s the joke about like the Infinity Stones is like it made me like questions spending not really question I love all the Marvel movies but like, they’ve like completely knocked out the impact of endgame and everything that led up to it. And now now we’re setting up for something even bigger Josué Cardona 13:56Do you Lara Taylor 13:57but I guess that’s that’s the point of I guess that’s also the point of comics like you start with like the friendly neighborhood Spider Man and like saving cats and saving stopping bank robberies or whatever and then it just gets bigger. Yeah, bigger. And now it’s like cosmic in time. Josué Cardona 14:17I really feel that it it’s somehow they take something away from the previous 372 movies. Lara Taylor 14:32I think that’s the maybe Josué Cardona 14:34Hmm Lara Taylor 14:34maybe like literally none of it mattered. it was all predetermined and supposed to happen Link Keller 14:42it’s not that it didn’t matter it’s that it was all this was all decided by this was a this was a chosen timeline. Everything that happened word that was the the pick of which timeline, I’m gonna save Lara Taylor 14:56right and everything down to them going back in time. Getting the stones and like coming back to the future and Steve staying behind it was all pre determined. This is so this is the appropriate Link Keller 15:13I did love with that context. I did love that in Episode Six when or five? no six when the cute little clock lady Lara Taylor 15:28Miss minutes, Link Keller 15:29Miss minutes is all like hey, like Loki. Like instead of like pushing forward with this, like why don’t we give you like a timeline where it’s like, ooh, you successfully did the things that you wanted to do you beat Thanos like Don’t you want that when five episodes before he had been confronted with like not only did like you within that context, Loki not have very much purpose or ability to do anything Lara Taylor 15:56you die Link Keller 15:57its like in the big grand scale of things. You don’t you’re not supposed to do anything. It’s like the temptation of being like, not just like, Oh, do you want power? We know how much you love power. Loki is like do you want this falsehood that you believed in for so long back? Like, do you want to go back to the old simpler times? When there would be simple solutions to your problems? Like it’s you win you just you defeat thanos? And that’s great. And everybody is so happy and wonderful. And it’s like, Yeah, no, you you got you guys told me that that was a meaningless thing. Like, huh, huh. So But yeah, I did really like that as like an option to be like, hey, Loki, like? And he was like, No, no, thank you. I’m good. Josué Cardona 16:50Do we actually see, we don’t actually see Thanos get defeated in the flashbacks that are shown or in the or in the views that are shown to to Loki? Lara Taylor 17:00No, he only sees himself die Josué Cardona 17:01up to when thanos kills him Lara Taylor 17:03and that’s when the reel ends. Josué Cardona 17:06Yeah. So we don’t know that the events of this show. They technically happen out of time. Lara Taylor 17:14Everything in the TVA is out of time. It is out of time. Yeah, Josué Cardona 17:18yeah, exactly. So we don’t know when Link Keller 17:20it’s Quantum Time. It’s where Ant Man was hanging out. Josué Cardona 17:24Kind of that’ll be further explained in a Lara Taylor 17:27in a future movie and movie. Josué Cardona 17:28Yeah, but but you can’t, you can’t, with certainty say that the events in endgame were because they were decided by Kang. Like, Link Keller 17:40I mean, what what I, in order to have this like make sense. For me, I have separated some of these ideas that they tried to just mush together I the multiverse, they showed layers, layers layers there, there’s depth here, I’m going to assume that any timeline that they are talking about is within one layer. And so for…

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F9: The F is for Family Jun 20, 2021

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#305: Josué, Lara, and Link discuss F9 and Black Widow, two recent movies that focus on family. Found family or chosen family narratives are common in media and we unpack how they relate to our lived experiences, and shape our expectations of familial relationships. The power of Fambly! Transcript Josué Cardona 0:11Welcome to gt radio on the Geek Therapy network here at Geek Therapy. We believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves is through the media we care about. My name is Josué Cardona. I’m joined by Lara Taylor. Lara Taylor 0:20Hey, Josué Cardona 0:21And Link Keller. Link Keller 0:22What’s up? Josué Cardona 0:25y’all are like family to me, you know, you know that and I Link Keller 0:27no, you! Josué Cardona 0:28mean that. no, you are. Yes, I want to talk with the power family because the memes are good. They’re everywhere. They’re No, you don’t think they’re good? No. It’s too much. There’s too much right sometimes. I meme, just go too far. Is that does it? I think I think it’s gone too far. Lara Taylor 0:48Over saturate. Josué Cardona 0:49Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It feels a little oversaturated. Kind of Lara Taylor 0:53like that. Anakin and Padme one. Josué Cardona 0:57Yeah, yeah. We missed our chance to Yeah, maybe, maybe. But they come around, they come back around. Which the power family has come back around. I really liked the Fast and Furious movies. Link Keller 1:10Me too. Josué Cardona 1:11I enjoyed them a lot. I’m so I cannot. I was I was thinking about which movie would bring me back to theaters. And I just fast nine, isn’t it? But that’s not it. I will I will wait. I’m curious. I mean, know what you’re talking about family a second. I’m curious. What movie would bring you back like into a movie theater? That’s like upcoming are coming soon. Or not announced, you know that you just wish like what would bring? You know, Lara Taylor 1:43I still go to movies. I just go to the drive in. Yeah. Josué Cardona 1:48Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like to go to like, theater, theater, Lara Taylor 1:51I don’t need to go to a theater theater, my sound system in my car rumbles under my butt. Josué Cardona 1:59It’s not as convincing of an argument to a person with a better Lara Taylor 2:02it’s a better sound system than the theater. I’m just saying, Josué Cardona 2:06they’re, they’re good theaters. out there. I mean, so no, like Link Keller 2:12I would like to go to I don’t even know if there’s one up here. But I would like to go to the Alamo Drafthouse again and have like that kind of viewing experience, but I can’t even like think of a movie that. Like, I’m pretty sure. The last movie I saw in theaters in January 2020 was the lighthouse. And that movie was so good. That I don’t know, like, how, I don’t know how to like, get back there. You know, it feels like it’s been too much… Not enough. Lara Taylor 2:50I think about the fact that I might, I might be willing to go to a movie theater. However, other people in my household are not willing to go into a movie theater. Josué Cardona 3:00But I just wonder like, if there’s any, you know, like, for me, I think upcoming it’s like matrix 4 I think I would have gone to see matrix 4 like last June, in a pack theater, just like I couldn’t, I wouldn’t, I would have risked my life to go see matrix 4 as soon as possible. But that fast. I do want to see Link Keller 3:18that. And I do feel like the matrix movies are do have an additional aspect of viewing in a theater, but I don’t I don’t know if it’s enough. I don’t know if it hits the threshold of me being like, Yes, I will drive there and go to do that. Josué Cardona 3:35Yeah, yeah, I don’t. Yeah, like, which one, even even people who are too afraid right now. To to go to a theater. I feel like there’s got to be something that you would go to like some event maybe. Lara Taylor 3:47I don’t know if like, it’s not an upcoming movie. But like, before Wonder Woman 84 came out. If it was coming out in the time of we have vaccines? Where Yeah, I probably would have been like, yes, I’m going to see that in theater. Link Keller 4:05You did also see that at the drive in though, right? Am I remembering correctly? Lara Taylor 4:09Yes. Josué Cardona 4:11Yeah, Lara Taylor 4:11I’ve seen a lot of things at the drive in Yeah, Link Keller 4:13it is really cool that drive ins exist, conceptually. But especially the past, you know, year and a half. It has been so great. I wouldn’t know before I moved out to Washington where I was living in Santa Cruz. There was a drive in movie theater there for decades. That closed a couple of years before 2020 happened, but that was that was a big bummer. Lara Taylor 4:42Like they even open one up in San Francisco at Fort Mason to because people wanted that experience. By the way, the concessions at my drive in are better than any I have been. They have churros and Boba Josué Cardona 4:59like I’m done with you selling. Link Keller 5:00mmmm oh wait that sounds good Josué Cardona 5:01its like I don’t know. It’s it’s still doesn’t sound… gimme an Alamo better. i want that movie experience. i don’t care How much your butt shakes Lara Taylor 5:09Alamo closed down Link Keller 5:11I do I do want to offer a counter argument Josué. Like Josué Cardona 5:16what arguement? what was i arguing? Link Keller 5:18If you’re in your if you’re in your car Lara Taylor 5:21you don’t have to deal with other people Link Keller 5:22you don’t have to deal with other people also you can fart and it’s not rude at all. Josué Cardona 5:29if people know that you that you’re the one who farted you did it wrong in the theater. Link Keller 5:34Ah, I see Josué Cardona 5:36that’s another conversation Link Keller 5:37you’re evil. Josué Cardona 5:40So all of this to say that I have not seen fast nine, but I want to see fast nine, which is not that bad. And that’s where all the power of everybody’s talking about the power family making memes but it you know, I think I do like that aspect of the movies. And one movie that I did get to see not in theaters, but at home was blackwidow. Link Keller 6:00i was gonna say, Speaking of movies that I saw, about family, that I am not willing to pay for…it’s black widow Josué Cardona 6:12I’m sorry, I took that away from you, Go for it. Link Keller 6:14thank you. we added in It’s fine. It’s fine. Josué Cardona 6:18Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I thought about it. I thought I was like, I don’t. I wasn’t even that’s a whole other conversation. Like would I even pay $30 to see this movie. When in a month or two, it’s going to be on a streaming service. Would I pay for that pleasure, and I definitely would not have paid so you’ll see blackwidow in theaters Lara Taylor 6:36it’s made more money than any movie during the pandemic or since the pandemic started, including all the other movies that have come out in the last few months when theaters have been open more. Josué Cardona 6:47Oh, that’s it’s a sad way to gloat. I mean, I get it. It’s horrible situation. The worst were the least worst off. I get it. Um, but I know the point you’re making like Lara Taylor 7:03a female led movie that is kicking ass right now. Josué Cardona 7:07It is it is again it I feel. I hate that these female-led movies are Lara Taylor 7:12that were gonna come out during the pandemic. Were female lead movies. Yeah, yeah. Josué Cardona 7:17Yeah, like that. That happens a lot. So I mean, in a way I’m Link Keller 7:19you heard it here first, folks. COVID? a misogynist, Lara Taylor 7:23basically, basically. Josué Cardona 7:26I’m glad that it’s getting a theatrical run and it gets to you know, people will get to see it in different ways. But I am way happier that it was also on disney plus premiere access, Lara Taylor 7:38which they were talking about not doing. Josué Cardona 7:41Look. You can find like version of every single part of this possibility for this over the last 18 months, Lara Taylor 7:49where they put it off so much longer than the other movies that they were releasing. Marvel did not want to do it. And I’m glad they did. Josué Cardona 7:58Yeah. Ultimately, I mean, we’re just talking about like, other people are controlling how we watch movies and what, how often Am I willing to comply and for which movies, so I was willing to pay $30 just to watch blackwidow at home after having watched the movie. I think it was great. I loved it. I loved it so much that I was Lara Taylor 8:21gonna end up paying $30 because I’m probably going to end up going again with another set of friends to see it at the drive in. Josué Cardona 8:27I loved it. I am I want to rewatch it like it was it was a lot of fun. It was it was one of the most I mean, it’s one of my favorite Marvel movies now like top definitely top probably my number three also. Yeah. So So I love that but but family it was all about family. I did not expect the movie to be that way. It was this will keep waiting for fantastic for this was this was as close as we can get to like a family movie. It was all about family dynamics. And it was it was good. Lara Taylor 8:57Nina leaned over and we’re watching the movie. And we got to do that without disturbing the rest of the people in the theater. And she was like they they’re nailing the sibling dynamic, right? There was moments where the way Elena would say something. And I’d be like, Nina, would you do that? And she’s like, yes, yes, I would totally do that as the younger sister. And it was great. It was great to see that. And we are the kind of people who, anytime we see two women close together in a movie, we’re like, oh, we ship that. Well, never because I totally bought into the family dynamic in this. It was great. Josué Cardona 9:44I didn’t know where you’re going with this. I’m glad. I’m glad. Lara Taylor 9:46Yeah. Yeah. Josué Cardona 9:48But back to the fact that they were sisters. Cool. All right. Lara Taylor 9:52They’re back to the real break. But no, no, we don’t we don’t ship that. We don’t ship that because because you We bought the we bought the relationship. It was great. Josué Cardona 10:04Okay, I think I see what you were trying to say. Yeah. Link comment. Link Keller 10:10I was doing I was doing some pre recording research like I do. And I was looking at all of the Dom fast. Nine, meme family memes came across a whole bunch of incest ones and it was very like OOP UH. Lara Taylor 10:29And so we’re like, oh, no, let’s not go there. Link Keller 10:34We got a pump on these brakes. Josué Cardona 10:36That’s what happens when you Google family. On the internet. It just comes up. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But that’s not what we’re talking about. Link Keller 10:44not what we’re talking about Lara Taylor 10:46We’re talking we’re talking about chosen family. Josué Cardona 10:49It is chosen family. Right? Because the the thing about if you haven’t seen Black Widow, obviously, we recommend it. Two out of three of us think it’s very, it’s amazing. Top three Marvel’s top three Marvel movies, or both of us. Although I am counting the endgame and infinity war is one. I don’t think you can hold that against me. Lara Taylor 11:08I don’t because originally it was gonna be part one. And part two. You got it. Josué Cardona 11:11Yeah, you get you get you get what I’m trying to say. But it’s it’s that good. I like it. I like it a lot. And, yeah, again, I didn’t expect this whole family aspect to be a part of the movie. But it is like they are a family. But they’re also not a family. watch the movie. That’s what I mean. Right. But okay, Link Keller 11:33for clarification, they’re not directly related. They just have a long and varied history. Lara Taylor 11:42So they’re part of a family. Josué Cardona 11:45They were basically Link Keller 11:46are you doing quotes around family, like the mob? Lara Taylor 11:50I mean, it’s the first like five to 10 minutes of the movie. Right? Link Keller 11:55I want clarification is actually like, you know, chosen family kind of thing. Or if it’s more like, a different kind of family dynamic, which is still cool. Link Keller 12:06I think it’s both because, yeah, it’s both. Josué Cardona 12:09Yeah. It’s like sometimes you get put into a situation with other people. And, and you can make choices about that. How much you want to accept that, right? It’s like, step siblings, right. It’s like there’s no blood. And maybe there’s a relationship for a little while, you know, and, but Lara Taylor 12:29you can choose to continue to have them in your life or you can choose not to. Josué Cardona 12:32Yeah, yeah. And how do you how do you move forward with that? And so it touches a lot on that, but I am. Yeah, is that clarifying enough? Or no? I back. I bet I backpedaled I was gonna go I was gonna go into details within I think not I don’t think I have to. Um, I think Yeah, part of it is in the in the trailers and stuff, but it’s just yeah, it’s like a family is a big part of it. There’s just a lot of family stuff. And and it was incredibly fun. And it was those human interaction moments that made the movie, like the action and stuff was great, but it was the interaction Lara Taylor 13:07the sister antagonistic, like, back and forth banter. Oh, beautiful. Josué Cardona 13:12But also also the parents and the way Yeah, and the way that all of that and then the, you know, the frustration of like, breaking up as a family and then coming back together and helping each other out and all that stuff. It’s great, but it really is, yeah, I’m thinking mostly of chosen family stuff. Like I always I always love those stories. And at least they affect me in a way because I got my preferred family, my friends, you know, present company, including the people listening to this podcast, are more meaningful to me and I care more about than a lot of people who are blood relatives, and and I should feel closer to and, and those relationships are more important to me. And um, yeah, should Yeah, I don’t know. I don’t I don’t think we should necessarily but uh, but yeah, I think that’s something. That’s what I’ve always liked about those the fast The Furious movies. It’s like, there’s no, there’s no. Like, we know what that means when he’s talking about family. Right? It’s like, it’s like, it’s definitely like, this is just family. Nothing you can’t do, you got family. And they do a lot of stuff. That seems like really impossible, but because they have family, they’re able to do incredible things. Lara Taylor 14:32And then Black Widow, this family does incredible things, too. Josué Cardona 14:36They do. They do. Yeah. Yeah. Dude, they can do it together. Yeah. Yeah. And instead ideally, when you come together the things that you can accomplish, I think, you know, that’s probably the the key message of the Fast and Furious movies. I love stories like that. Are there other stories of my chosen families that that you always do that you go back to or have resonated a lot In the past Link Keller 15:03I mean, when you use the phrase chosen family, my mind immediately goes to x men as the the easy example to bring up. I have always loved that aspect of x men is is that they are a bunch of weirdos who became each other’s family both out of necessity and out of choice. And I think that’s really beautiful. Josué Cardona 15:34Hmm hmm. How about you, Lara? Lara Taylor 15:38There are, there are a lot of things like we can look at Lilo and Stitch we got, “ohana means family.” But what popped into my head was more like the bat family. Very different dynamic, because Batman goes back and forth between wanting the family and also not wanting the family. Josué Cardona 16:02Yeah, yeah. Lara Taylor 16:03Which is also a thing that we do on our regular families too. Like blood blood families, definitely. There are some people we want to interact with more than others. Sometimes we just want to pull away from all of them. But yeah, the bat family was a big example I thought of Josué Cardona 16:23I do I do. Like I do. Like both of these examples. u…

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