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Finally, Disney! Apr 03, 2022

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#324: Marc went to Disney World for the first time and wanted to talk about that experience. Link and Lara share their Disney stories and talk about healing your inner child. Transcript Link Keller 0:12Welcome to GT radio on the Geek Therapy network, where we believe that we are people who consume media and want to talk about it and understand each other better. Man, I started out really strong there and then panicked. Okay, all right, hold on. Okay. Welcome to GT radio on the Geek Therapy network here at Geek Therapy. We believe that you can better understand yourself and the people you care about through the media that you care about. Still not great. You know what, it’s fine. We’re gonna keep going. This week is marc’s topic, and I’m joined by Marc and Lara. Marc Cuiriz 1:04Hello, Lara Taylor 1:05hello. Link Keller 1:07Take it away, Marc Marc Cuiriz 1:08That was very sudden. And for the record, this is all staying in the episode. Link Keller 1:12Oh, god Lara Taylor 1:12absolutely. Marc Cuiriz 1:14Yeah, this is 100% Link Keller 1:14I really thought I was gonna have it and I am sweating! oh my god. Lara Taylor 1:20If only Josué was here to see it. Link Keller 1:24Maybe I’m gonna blame it. I’m gonna I’m gonna blame it on that. Marc Cuiriz 1:27And you know, wouldn’t be a GT episode. If Link wasn’t sweating. Link Keller 1:31Honestly, true. That’s true. Marc Cuiriz 1:33So yes. So in this, this episode, or this week, I really wanted to talk about kind of like, the idea of reclaiming your childhood, a little bit as an adult. And also, I just really wanted to talk about my recent trip to Disney, because that’s where I went for my honeymoon. Link Keller 1:50Yay, Disney. Marc Cuiriz 1:52Yeah. So to kind of like kick into kickstart this episode. What I mean by like, reclaiming your childhood is sort of like being able to do things or experience things that like, are typically associated with childhood things like, like going to amusement parks and things like that, like that’s something that like you do as adults, but like, it’s really like cherished as a child or something like Disney in and of itself, like Disney movies are very cherished, like they’re their childhood movies for, you know, a lot of people. And for some people, like, that’s something that they don’t always necessarily get to experience, or that experience becomes tainted in some way, shape, or form, whether that’s, you know, through, you know, things going on at home, or someone just being able to severely distort the memory of something that was once good. And then as an adult, you go back to it, and you sort of retake it for yourself, and you are basically overriding that sort of memory with something good. So like, for me, I never got the chance to go to Disney. This is my very first time ever going to Disney. And, you know, for someone like Lara, who is a Disney child, Lara Taylor 3:09I am so shocked Marc Marc Cuiriz 3:11I know, right? Just I, you know, Call it a hunch that you just happen to be going to Disney for many, many years. But for me, like that’s something I never got something I never was able to experience as a child. Really, because it just was not feasible for my family. Like, you know, I went to amusement parks like, like here in Illinois there Six Flags, or I went to Cedar Point in, in Ohio, like those were things that I was still able to do. So it’s not like I was fully robbed of that. But like that Disney experience. And so going to Disney and seeing all these rides of like, it’s a small world or like the Peter Pan’s Flight or Space Mountain like things that like I heard about all the time growing up, but never experiencing and now experiencing it as an adult. Like, it felt good. And also kind of felt like it felt bittersweet to a small extent. Like it was like, Oh, this is really cool. I’m so glad to get to experience this now. I just wish I could see it felt this when I was a kid though. Like, you know, like, I’m sure like, I don’t have you guys have had anything like that, like things that you’ve missed out on as a kid that you experienced as an adult. Lara Taylor 4:32Trying to think of an example that but Marc, I want to know if you got your first visit button. Marc Cuiriz 4:37I did and I got my happily ever after button. Lara Taylor 4:41Good. Good. Both very important. Marc Cuiriz 4:44They are very, very important. Lara Taylor 4:45I don’t know, I’ll have to keep thinking and see if I can come up with something I don’t think I ever left my childhood behind. I think I’m a person who thinks that children’s things are not just for children. And we can keep doing them whenever we want. But it does remind me of the fact that the reason that I am such a Disney child and went to Disneyland all the time, is because my mom was 10, when Disneyland opened Lara Taylor 5:17, and her father promised her, that he would take her, and he never did. So the first time she got to go to Disneyland was when she was like, first got together with my dad. And so she got to reclaim her childhood, which was a crappy childhood, and get to go to Disneyland. And she wanted her kids to be able to experience that all the time. Way to break that intergenerational trauma and take your kids to the happiest place on earth over and over and over. And now my kids are going to be forced to go over and over and over. But yeah, so your experience is not like a solo journey. Other people have gone through that, too. Marc Cuiriz 6:05Yeah, I definitely feel like I never really kind of felt like alone in that sort of aspect of things. But it is like, and I’m also the kind of person that like, I feel like I’ve never officially grown up like I am still very much a child. off to my left here, I have all my silly little knickknacks, I got my, you know, stuffed Kirby and everything like I am, Lara Taylor 6:25that doesn’t mean you’re a child. Marc Cuiriz 6:27But like, I 100% still engage in imaginative play when I’m home alone. Like, there’s no no shame in that for me. So like, I’m definitely in that boat. And I understand, like, I’m not alone, it’s just, I don’t know, like, I don’t know, if anybody would have like, sort of like the same experience that I did have, like, this bittersweet feeling of this is really awesome, I really love and I’m enjoying being here, and I’m totally geeking out and having the best time and at the same time, it’s like, you know, I could have had this as a child, if circumstances were just a little different, you know, like, I didn’t grow up in the best of homes, I definitely would say that I did have more of, you know, opportunities and privileges than most kids. But I’m also I think it’s because, like, for me, I started off relatively well off like in, you know, mid, like middle class. And then I, when I was like 10, or 11, I witnessed it all get taken away from me, like, I then dropped to lower lower class basically, just really, really struggling and getting to a point where I didn’t even know when, when I was going to eat next. So like to have, like, have those things and then suddenly lose that ability, and then have to essentially grow up. You know, way too soon about it and losing those experiences. I think that’s kind of like where I’m at in terms of like, things like that. So like, like going to universal or going to Disney or, like medieval times like that was like those are like things that like are cherished or something that’s like more like that are more geared towards children. And at the same time, it’s like experiencing them as an adult is definitely a lot different. Like obviously like going to Epcot. Fantastic because I can engage in all of the things. Lara Taylor 8:25Kids get bored at Epcot. Marc Cuiriz 8:28exactly. But like, in terms of like the other parks like magic kingdom, like I thought Magic Kingdom was going to be so much. I had a very different image of what magic kingdom was going to be like for me. And then being there. It was like, Oh, this is really cool. But I also see like, a lot of this is geared towards small children. And so there isn’t necessarily a whole lot that I would like to see or like to do or, you know, the rides to go on this, that and the other. So it’s like out, like, if I was like, if I was younger, this would be so cool. As an adult. There are some parts of it. That’s really cool. And other parts. It’s like, okay, I still really see this is still for kids. So like, I don’t necessarily feel as like, oh, I have to do that. Even though so many people might suggest it like I don’t really feel like it because I’m now standing in line for 75 minutes with you 7, 8, 9 year olds. So I dunno Lara Taylor 9:29I am the one standing in the line for 75 minutes with the 7, 8, 9 year olds because, I don’t care, you know, but I do get that like coming to it from a different perspective that like you, you feel like you missed out on the joy of doing that as a kid. I remember when I was a kid, there were a lot of things that were not joyful for me at Disneyland I went on the Matterhorn, which is only in Disneyland. after, I would not go on Thunder Mountain and my parents left me on the rock out front times have changed. They stood in line for an hour and a half for that ride. And the next day I was like, I’m gonna be brave. I’m gonna go on this ride. I was like, eight or nine and the second the ride started moving. I was screaming terrified would not look crying did not want to be on the ride. So kind of the opposite. Child was like on. It’s a kids ride. Like it really is the shortest people the shortest. You must be this whole thing. But I did not. I didn’t go on that ride until I was, again until I was 22. I think just because of the way rides closed and refurbishment and everything. I guess in that way, I kind of reclaimed my childhood and got to go on that ride and prove I could do it. Like 15 years later. Yeah. I don’t know. It’s I love hearing different people’s perspectives of Disney and how they come to things in this way. Marc Cuiriz 11:16Yeah, yeah. What say you link? Link Keller 11:21It’s actually pretty funny. I feel like we’re covering a lot of demographics here because I went to Disneyland only as a kid. I went when I was five, and then again at like 10 or 11. And then again at 16. And becoming an adult Disney became inaccessible to me, because I didn’t have the money to travel or to do anything in the park that I would have wanted to do. So I’ve not been as an adult. So this is, this is fun. We’re covering all of our bases here. I guess we need somebody who’s never been to Disney ever. Then we to truly encompass all of the experiences. But I’m, I’m trying to think of an example of something that I wanted as a kid and didn’t get and then did get as an adult. The only thing that’s coming to mind so far was when I was a kid. We were not allowed to have a video game console. But we did have a PC and we had PC games. And when I was probably seven or eight I got a Gameboy so it’s like I had a handheld console. So it’s like, while I didn’t ever have the PS1 PS2 Xbox experiences until after graduating high school when I got my first job at GameStop. And I spent my whole first paycheck on consoles. I did not have that as kid but I don’t really feel like I totally didn’t get that experience because I still had video games in the house and I still played over at other people’s houses. Yeah, but I do there. You know, there was an aspect of you know, when I brought home, my Xbox 360 the first time, there was a little bit of a bittersweet moment where it’s like I’m sitting in, I was living on my own. This is the first time I was, you know, I was out of high school in community college, I was living in a little cabin. Granted, I was right next door to my grandparents who I had been living with. So again, it’s like that sort of in between. But I was I was alone in my house with my game console. And it’s like, wow, I’m gonna play Fallout 3 for 12 hours straight. And this is this is I’m finally getting what I always wanted Yeah, Marc Cuiriz 14:03well, let’s see, like, I feel like that kind of brings up another point like, when it comes to like gaming in and of itself for me, like, I like my dad had like the original Nintendo and then I had Sega and then I had the PS 2x, Xbox 360 and things like that growing up. Mainly just due to, you know, just being lucky on Christmas, I guess. But like for me, like games are always viewed so negatively amongst my family and so like they did their best to kind of like taint the the ideas of video games and thinking like no, like, you need to be outside. Like, I was talking about this just this morning at work because there was a question on the radio of like, what are things we did as kids like that we would never let our kids do today. And like one of those things for me specifically was like my remember one day like it. My mom said like, basically told me to go outside. I walked outside she said alright, I I don’t want you to coming back into this house until you have grass stains on your clothes, like I want your clothes to be absolutely dirty, you’re going to be outside, don’t come back and then close the door and expecting me to just go play in the neighborhood, you know. And like that was their idea of things like they would try so hard to get me involved in like outdoorsy activities or just being something away from a screen. And as I got older, like, it was something that like I like doubled down on because I’m like, No, this is this is what I enjoy. And I took this back from the people that kept trying to tell me that this was nothing but a waste of time. Or, I would say like, even doing like things like this, like recording a podcast like this is something that like, my family growing up would have been like, That’s so stupid, what are you thinking, you should go get a like a real job, quote, unquote. And yet to me, like this is a passion of mine talking about these sorts of things and doing these sorts of things. And I’ve decided to reclaim this part of my childhood that for so long was looked down on or ridiculed for all sorts of various reasons. And so like, this was something like, No, this is I’m taking this back, this is mine, I’m reclaiming this now as an adult, and I’m proud of this, which is why I said like, I’ll, you know, sit here and you know, slow dance with my cat in the living room on my days off, because why not, you know, if I want to, if I had something I want to do, or if I want to spend 12 hours playing Destiny two all day, instead of doing my homework, I’m going to do so because that’s, that’s I want to reclaim that that part that I feel like I’ve lost along the way. Link Keller 16:47definitely gotten a lot of videos on my Tiktok for you page that talks about, like re parenting your your childhood self. So it’s definitely something that has been on my mind and talking about, you know, there are instances where you want something and you tell yourself like, oh, no, that’s like frivolous. That’s a waste. Like, I don’t deserve that. i It’s not for me, I’m, I’m a grown ass adult, that’s not for me. And it’s like, just slapping that part of you and being Lara Taylor 17:25just do it! Link Keller 17:25like you do deserve this, it will bring you joy. And you should allow yourself to have that. And in doing that. Your inner child really being like, oh my god, I’m finally getting the thing that I want and how much joy can just wash over you in those moments. Yeah, yeah. I think it’s lovely. Lara Taylor 17:50Yeah, it is wonderful. And it’s wonderful to see that. I don’t know, I relate to less because I am the spoiled, privileged kid that got everything I wanted as a kid. Not that my childhood was perfect. But I had parents that didn’t look down on the things that I did. My mom was the one who bought me all my gaming consoles until she died. And then my dad bought me the gaming consoles. And she would play games with me. So, like I said, I don’t…

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Alien Hour Mar 20, 2022

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#323: Link read Truth of the Divine, a book about the ramifications of first contact. They and the GT crew chat about aliens as metaphors for immigrants and various “othered” groups and how these media reflect the historical and current patterns of human behaviors between social groups. Transcript Josué Cardona 0:11Welcome to GT radio on the Geek Therapy network. Here at Geek Therapy, we believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves is through the media we care about. My name is Josué Cardona. I’m joined today by Marc Cuiriz. Marc Cuiriz 0:22Hello, Josué Cardona 0:24Lara Taylor. Lara Taylor 0:25Hey, Josué Cardona 0:26and Link Keller. Link Keller 0:27Hiiii Josué Cardona 0:29Link. What are we what are we talking about today? Link Keller 0:31we are talking about aliens in general, but more specifically, I just finished reading a book called Truth of the Divine by Lindsay Ellis, which is the second book in the Noumena series that she is writing. And it was real good. And I thought it had a lot of cool things that we could touch on and talk about aliens in general. But yeah, Link Keller 0:57just aliens? Link Keller 0:58aliens! Josué Cardona 0:58Yeah, not what was what was it specifically about? Like, what’s playing out in that story that that like resonated with you and thought it would be a good conversation starter. Link Keller 1:09So a main plot point in the second book is talking about how the US government is responding to aliens being a thing and also being in America. And trying to argue whether or not aliens should get human rights if human rights should apply to them. Or if they should create a separate status for them which in the book, they refer to it as the third option, which is giving them some human rights. And that leads to a philosophical debate about personhood Lara Taylor 1:54about inalienable human rights? Link Keller 1:57Yes. Alien, right in the word. And basically talking about how a majority of the people who are arguing that aliens shouldn’t just get human rights are using arguments that are frequently used by fascists to dehumanize certain groups of people. And our main character Cora is deeply connected with one of the aliens that is there. The aliens name is ampersand. Through most of the series, he’s got a couple of different names, but ampersand is what she calls him. And they have a special alien connection that allows them to feel each other’s feelings to a certain extent. Not mind reading, but more empathy connection. And they are both traumatized people. And their trauma impacts each other and they care deeply about each other. But also sometimes they harm each other because it’s very difficult to deal with trauma and how it affects you emotionally and physically and having that relationship play out while they are also being sort of representative of the whole concept of how aliens should be treated by Americans. American government, humans in general. It’s a It’s It’s good stuff. It’s good stuff it The book takes place in 2007 2008. Which is actually it’s very funny in axioms and the first book george bush gets impeached because he hid he hid the existence of aliens from people. It’s it’s just that part made me laugh a lot. I thought that was very funny is like, what a fun little alternate history. Josué Cardona 4:04it’s too much. You hid too much. Link Keller 4:07Basically, it was like, a final straw. Josué Cardona 4:10you lied. This is this. You went too far. Link Keller 4:12you keep getting caught in lying to people Josué Cardona 4:15fool me once fool me…. Link Keller 4:17Yes, yeah. But yeah, I think I think it’s a really timely conversation to have. It takes place in 2007 2008. But it feels very modern in that the way that we apply labels to groups of people and give them certain access to certain rights, and how those things are changing. Like the rules are made up we make them up and so we, how we apply them and then how we rationalize how we apply those rights to people is very interesting. I think it’s important conversation. In general, but especially in the past couple of years with Black Lives Matter, and immigration, and the way our government treated COVID and people with disabilities or previous existing illnesses, and how our government is very quick to just feel like you’re a person, except that you’re not like a full person who deserves all of the rights. And using aliens as a way to have those kinds of conversations, I think, is a nice Geek Therapy way of doing an uncomfortable thing. But in a fun, fictional way. Josué Cardona 5:42It sure is. So I just had a very intense conversation related to this on on conspiracy of light, which is another one of our podcasts, that’s that one’s less accessible than this one. That’s a deep dive into Babylon 5, a 25 year old Sci Fi series. But the thing that we talked about specifically was that there are we’re talking about right now we’re talking about the context of and I mean, in this conversation from, from the book is like the dehumanization, but it’s also about separation. And, and I love the idea that there’s only two like one representative from the side that can really understand each other to that point, so I have questions about how different the aliens are from us, that I want to get to in a second. But I want to I want to say that the conversation that I had with Woody on conspiracy of late, was about a point in Babylon five, where there are groupings of races of aliens. And it’s like, We are the bottom rung in terms of how long we’ve been in the universe. And then there’s others that have been like that are that are way older than us, and they’ve evolved so differently, and just view us very differently. And then there’s a whole other group beyond that, who were there before, even them? And they’re almost incomprehensible to us. Right. And I and I think it’s a, it’s a metaphor about how a lot of this stuff happens, right? It’s like, all these differences come up, and then you just, I think some of it, a lot of it is malicious. But a lot of it happens in a way that it’s, it’s hard to understand each other, right? Like, I mean, that’s, that’s allowed what I love to do, that we do here, right that we we talk about things that are popular, because all sorts of different people enjoy, you know, sci fi, and can get into a conversation about this and maybe find some common ground and understanding just the fact that we both liked the same thing, or enjoyed a thing, or felt a certain way about a thing allows us to connect in a way that is sometimes really, really hard. And it can even help overcome, you know, the different types of language barriers and experiences. So I’m curious, how different are the aliens in this saga, this this trilogy from humans. Link Keller 8:27So a lot of that aspect is talked about in the first book. They are what what the what the aliens referred to as as post organic, they have an organic like brain and brainstem, but they exist inside of it’ss not, like robot but like robot bodies, basically. They are often described as being sort of like Velociraptor shaped, they are bigger than humans, they are because of this non organic form, they are stronger and able to withstand, you know, more. They don’t have soft squishy human bodies, like we do. But it is revealed through conversations between Cora and ampersand that they have, you know, they have language, they have social structures, they have a hierarchy of you know, the more powerful aliens in charge of the lesser powerful aliens in charge of the even lesser lesser powerful aliens, they have titles that sort of apply to like their jobs, but also just their general purpose within the social structure that they exist in. But the aliens that come to earth so there is a group that has come to Earth before the book takes place, and they are being held by the government, but they are not in communication, like they do not talk. They don’t understand each other. And it doesn’t really seem like the aliens are interested in communicating or just sort of minding their own business. But once ampersand arrives on Earth, that sort of shifts things in that he immediately starts trying to communicate. And him showing up changes the interactions of the other alien group with the humans in that they’re like, oh, gosh, okay, I guess we do have to start talking. It’s revealed that this group of aliens, basically fled their homeworld, home group, and they are functionally refugees, and they are hiding on Earth. And part of the reason that they chose Earth is because 700 ish years before, they had taken some humans and like checked out the planet and be like, oh, there’s like life here. Is it intelligent life? mmm No, not really. And it was basically, like, wrote that off. But it turns out is like when they had come to earth is like, right after the Black Plague when we had very low population numbers, and a lot of our technology was lost or destroyed, or not in use. And so they had a lot of beliefs about what humans were and were capable of. That was a little ignorant Josué Cardona 11:27first impressions. Link Keller 11:29First impressions. Yeah, and so a lot of the conversation in the second book is ampersands, sort of reckoning with the realization that humans are an intelligent species. And they are not only very close to being able to do space travel in the same level that his alien group is, but is also evolving at a faster rate than they were. And so it’s gone from being like this Podunk little planet and back corner of the Milky Way We can hide on to to our super organism, which is what they call their group slash the leader of their group is going to see humans as a threat. And might, might come here and do a little planet wipe. And sort of dealing with the emotions of his part in that whole situation. Because it turns out, he was one of the aliens who had come the first time and taken humans off the planet. And so he’s like, I told everybody else that you guys were just stupid animals. And it turns out that that’s not true. And also, like, now I care about you. Oh, gosh, this is problematic. Uh Oh! but yes. So there’s, in the first book, there’s a lot of conversations that happen about like, coming to understand this foreign entity as having personhood, and understanding the ways in which you are similar and being like, Wow, isn’t that cool. And then also the ways in which are different and how awful that can be in in just a complete rejection of like, you guys. I guess the quick connection here is ampersand, the aliens, they are extremely long lived because of their being post organic. And so they choose when they are going to die. They plan that out in advance. And so the aliens when basically, they get to the end of their life, and they’re like, Okay, my family group, we’re all gonna kill each other, kill ourselves together so that nobody has to grieve, or live alone without your family group, or we’re just, it’s the end of our life, we all die together. And obviously, Cora and humans in general being like, oh, excuse me, what that’s not cool or acceptable, and how, like, you can’t apply that idea to us in any way. And the conflicts that arise in these differences between their groups, even if there are more similarities between them than there are differences. Josué Cardona 14:17Are you saying that that’s one of the philosophical like, reasons, to deny them the personhood? Link Keller 14:24No, that’s not really discussed so much with government officials. That’s more with Cora specifically. But he, he basically, ampersand talks about how when two groups interact with each other, the dominant group will overtake the other group and either wipe them out or assimilate them, and how he’s like Like, no offense, guys, but you’re not quite ready to handle our technology capabilities. And so if we do this as before, everybody knows about the aliens, its like if we do like come out, quote unquote, to people, that is going to have like a ripple effect on your, your culture, your species, your chances of survival. And that sort of thing. Josué Cardona 15:33That’s the that’s like the prime directive on Star Trek, right? It’s like, like, they’re not, they’re not at our level. They’re not at the minimum Lara Taylor 15:39they’re not ready yet. Josué Cardona 15:41You’re not this tall yet. So they can’t get on the ride. So we’re not even gonna say, Hello. We’ll keep an eye on him. But like, Yeah, but But it’s, I mean, it still happens to, to a degree. But throughout history, right, like, of course, it’s like, the savages the people above whatever, and then we treat, you know, we treated each other like animals. still happens. Link Keller 16:06Yeah. And that’s, that’s a big, like, conversation is cora is like, I want to act like this is a bad thing that you’re saying. But that’s, that is human history. Like, I can’t, I can’t refute that concept that you’re bringing to the table is like, yeah, no, the dominant group will come in and will wipe out the other group. Josué Cardona 16:23Yeah. Again, it doesn’t even have to be that different. Right. Like, it’s just whatever different whatever we can use to separate. To define one group, and another. And then, yeah, yeah. So then, so then when ampersand shows up, I’m interested in the in the, like, the empathy and communication piece. So then now they they do understand each other. And that doesn’t, I guess, I guess it just kind of clears some things up. But then my guess is that then it sounds like we just keep coming up with reasons to not right like to America keeps coming up with reasons to not treat them like any other refugee, that we’ve treated before, kind of I mean, it’s trying to connect it to current events right now. There’s a Supreme Court judge who’s who’s going through hearings, right? And it’s like, you’re just trying to pick at any little thing that you can, because you don’t want them to be the next judge. And that’s like, we all know what, what’s happening. And you know, we see it happening, but that’s kind of just how we do things. Yeah. I mean, Marc Cuiriz 17:48I do have to say that I am enjoying the great philosophical conundrums, and ethical dilemmas that are being presented here. This is 1,000%. My jam even though like, I don’t know, like I the way, the more you’re talking about this, the more I’m like, getting very deeply invested in this, and I am 1,000% going to probably go through this entire trilogy in a matter of 48 hours Link Keller 18:13to be cleared. The third book is not out yet. The truth of the Divine came out last year, so Marc Cuiriz 18:21oh man Link Keller 18:22I am sorry, I’m so sorry to say, Lara Taylor 18:24gotta read two, and then wait. Marc Cuiriz 18:26Great. Link Keller 18:27Yeah. The first book does sort of work on its own to just read it. The second book does feel like the middle of a trilogy, and I am like, Oh, now I gotta wait. But it was it was such it’s such good stuff. So meaty, mmm! Josué Cardona 18:42So I’m curious Marc, what was resonating with you about this? What do you feel? Marc Cuiriz 18:47I mean, It’s really just kind of like everything like? So I know, like when we when, when Link first, like brought this up about aliens? And I remember I posted like, oh, man, I have just the webtoon for this. And then you actually started talking about this. I’m like, Oh, no. And all it really has nothing to do with this at all. I guess the only the only thing that I could say that would like tie in is that okay, so the webtoon that, that I started reading and then it took a hiatus and then I kind of stopped reading webtoons for a while and I just came back into it just to kind of catch up on the the season two aspect of this thing. It’s called down to earth and to rom com, the webtoon which that is very telling me but I love it. It’s really great. But essentially, this alien comes to earth and is trying to live amongst humans trying to pass…

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Turning Red Mar 13, 2022

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#322: Lara, Marc, Link, and Josué discuss Turning Red. We cover the multifaceted representation and the cringe of being a young teen. Transcript Josué Cardona 0:11Welcome to GT radio on the Geek Therapy network, here at Geek Therapy we believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves through the media we care about. My name is Josué Cardona. I’m joined by Lara Taylor. Lara Taylor 0:22Hey, Josué Cardona 0:23Link Keller, Link Keller 0:24sup party people. Josué Cardona 0:26And Marc Cuiriz. Marc Cuiriz 0:27Hello, Josué Cardona 0:28Lara, it is your turn this week. Lara Taylor 0:31It’s my turn. And there’s a new new Disney Pixar movie Josué Cardona 0:36take that Happiest Pod on Earth. Lara Taylor 0:38That’s what we’re gonna talk about. We’re gonna talk about turning red. Josué Cardona 0:45Yeah, I brought it up at work. And someone was like, what is that? I don’t know what it is. And then we explained and then they were ashamed that they didn’t remember what happened. When we brought it up. As, as he should have been, Marc Cuiriz 0:59you know, I had somebody I had somebody else talk about it at work. And they’re like, I fell asleep through that in during that movie twice. And I was like, what? Excuse me how? Lara Taylor 1:10It was so good. Marc Cuiriz 1:11It really it really was. But I asked them, like, how could you fall asleep? They’re like, I don’t know. I just I just kept falling asleep. And I was like, well Lara Taylor 1:18do they have narcolepsy? Marc Cuiriz 1:20Possibly. Josué Cardona 1:21But what’s so good about it Lara? Hmm, why do you want to talk about it? What’s the what’s great about this movie? Lara Taylor 1:25Well, I wanted to talk about this movie before I saw it because they have to not one but two diabetic characters on in the movie. But that was kind of anticlimactic when I watched the movie. Link Keller 1:38Were there two? Lara Taylor 1:39There were two. Link Keller 1:40I only saw the one, Stacy. Josué Cardona 1:42So I saw zero I didn’t notice at all. When we talked about it earlier. I even made the diabetes reference. And then I thought, wait a minute. I just saw the movie. I don’t remember, diabetes reference? Lara Taylor 1:55To two girls have sensors on their arm. The funny thing is this movie takes place in the early 2000s. When we didn’t have those sensors, that sensor technology Josué Cardona 2:07this is taking place in Canada, though. Did Canada have sensors Lara Taylor 2:10No. Josué Cardona 2:10but they have health care than us right no No, they didn’t. Link Keller 2:14the technology did not exist yet. Lara Taylor 2:16It did not exist yet. It’s just like, when we talked about on the diabetes podcast episode, we did Josué. When in panic room. The daughter had a sensor on her wrist. And that was not available to anyone under the age of 18. At the time, and she was like 15. So yeah, still representation. Good. They had creators that were diabetic. And that’s why there are two characters, but no mention of what these things on these kids arms are, or anything like that. They were very minor characters, but I appreciated it. Josué Cardona 2:58it’s a World. It’s an alternate, you know, parallel world where everything’s exactly the same, except that people can turn into red pandas. And Lara Taylor 3:08and they had sensor technology for diabetics earlier. Exactly. Yeah. Perfect. Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate that. I appreciate that. There are so many other things about this movie that I loved. I don’t know. I could go into more of those things now. But I want to hear what other people liked about the movie. And then I guess I can go into more of my, my things, but I just I really liked it. It was a lot of fun. I don’t think I’ve laughed that hard in a while. Josué Cardona 3:36Marc, you were defending it now to what’s it? What’s, uh, What’s so great about this movie? Marc Cuiriz 3:42Well, I just, I liked how like, it really is giving it from like, the, like, the pre adolescent, like, right into the cusp. It’s giving you that fresh perspective on on what growing up is like it like it reminds like, parents what it was like growing up and understanding that like, hey, as, as your kids grow up and start to discover who they are, like, it’s important that you give them the freedom to make these discoveries because the harder you try to hold on to the chain, the more they’re going to push back at at you and you know, there were some things that I kind of like related to like, feeling good enough and trying to get parental approval. My will say though, I was physically cringing within the first like two minutes of the movie just because of how like accurate it was in terms of like the awkwardness of it but like also owning it and I was like Oh, that’s really cringy but I Okay, I’m here for it. Let’s ride it out. And then it dissipated and I was like, okay, I’m okay, now. That the whole intro sequence. It’s done. All right now now I’m here for the ride. Josué Cardona 4:56Link What are your thoughts? Link Keller 4:58I really enjoyed it, turning red, I love red pandas. I was very excited to get lots of red panda screen time. I liked the family dynamics. I loved the friend group. And I had several moments where I’m like, oh, it’s me, because I was also in eighth grade in 2002, 2003. So yeah, I was like, Oh, the big example is when Miriam gives Mei, the mixed CD or the burned CD. I was like, oh, like, there was one I still I still have a ton of them. But like there was there’s a period of time where I would just borrow people’s full, like CD binder cases and take them home and burn all of them and then make mix CDs for my friends. Yeah, that one. That took me back even harder than the Tamagotchi did. Josué Cardona 6:04The young people in the audience burning a CD means making a copy of it on fire. Lara Taylor 6:10not even just making a copy, but making a playlist of your own and then burning it. Marc Cuiriz 6:16Listen, I made a burns. I made a mix CD in like 2018 Okay, I know what it’s all about. I made I made one for my now wife. It was really sweet. Really cute. I even like went out and like, bought got like a blank. Like, like a CD, like Link Keller 6:38jewel case? Marc Cuiriz 6:39Yeah. And like, and I like I made like a custom like cover and like the back with like a plate like the the song lists on it. It was for like an anniversary. So I’m young. I was probably I think I was in like second or third grade in 2002. But I’m not that young. I know these things. I know what a floppy disk is. Josué Cardona 7:00I wasn’t I wasn’t saying it for you. And I was saying just in general. Like Marc Cuiriz 7:04I felt Josué Cardona 7:05listeners Marc Cuiriz 7:07I felt directly called out. Josué Cardona 7:08I’m sorry, you felt that way. A burn on cd means something Yeah, that means different things today than it did back then. It’s just what’s the CD, it’s Look, I’m just, I’m just trying to cover our bases. We don’t lose anybody. I enjoyed the movie a lot, too. I haven’t haven’t talked about my niece in a while. I mean, my niece and nephew. But I thought of my niece a lot during during this movie. Because when whenever I’m with her, or she tells me about her day, she’s telling me about like, like, like, like, mei and her friends. Right? It’s like, it’s like, Oh, right. And like they’re writing stories, and they’re and they’re obsessing about boy bands and stuff. I like it. Like it’s very, it was very, like, evident to me that I that, at least not in disney movies like this, that there is that perspective, like, of, of, of just like, girls who are friends, right, like in these types of movies. And it was it felt very refreshing to get a very, very different, like lens to have an adventure through. And I kept thinking of my niece throughout it. The other thing I really liked about the movie is that the things that are presented in the movie work as metaphors for multiple things. And that’s, that’s, that’s, that’s what we love here. Let’s I can’t wait to dive in to all that. So I’m sure that there are people all over the world relating to this movie in completely different ways. Lara Taylor 8:47Which is interesting, because the criticism, there was so much going around the internet about how a reviewer said it’s not relatable, and it’s made for one single audience and I’m like, there’s so many things to relate to in here. oh my gosh. Josué Cardona 9:02I mean, the one that I saw it not not to give it more like a more attention than it deserved. But the stupidity was like, oh, like I didn’t feel like this movie was speaking to me. Right. And it just it was like the obvious that it was so funny that the way that people trolled them like examples like oh, I watched Toy Story, but you know, since I’m not a toy, like, it didn’t speak to me. like, like, there’s just like a million versions of that. And it was so good because it just pointed out I mean, that’s a different way of kind of saying what I was saying, right? Whereas like, oh like this, is it this is this. Is that a perspective and we don’t see that often. So apparently this reviewer is like, oh, please like I need I need. I need something that’s like just about me through my lens of the world and it’s not so like, this sucks. It’s like Ah, thank you for pointing out In the worst way what this movie did successfully? Yeah, yeah, Lara Taylor 10:09yeah, there’s as someone who was once a preteen teenage girl, I really appreciated this movie for so many reasons. It made me, like Marc said, awkwardness. But like, I’m also going to bring up they, they talked about periods. And that is the thing on the internet that people are complaining about the most. And I’m like, huh, Josué Cardona 10:36I want to celebrate how many different pad brands Lara Taylor 10:43that was one well prepared mom, Link Keller 10:47I would put an asterix on it in that a truly well prepared, mom would have already talked about all this stuff. And I’m applying that to menstruation. And also the fact that you’re gonna turn into a red panda. Like both of those things could have been talked about before the event. But you know, this is a good starting place for that conversation. So this is doing the work. And I props to that I loved I loved the period representation. I thought it was very cool and funny and perfectly timed Lara Taylor 11:19and lit perfectly. The mom shows up at the school with the pads. Don’t forget your pads! Link Keller 11:25so embarrassing. Oh, Josué Cardona 11:28that scene in the in the convenience store. Link Keller 11:33So embarrassing. Josué Cardona 11:35Time slows down and like Lara Taylor 11:38no mom no no. Josué Cardona 11:39I stopped breathing Lara Taylor 11:42I was like, Is she really going to? Oh, my God. She is? Oh, no. Oh, yeah. And it’s interesting. This movie, I talk a lot about like, missing my mom. But this movie made me the one thing that I can appreciate about my mom passing away when I was 11 is I never had to have any of those experiences with her. Link Keller 12:11oh my god! Lara Taylor 12:12I get to have a wonderful memory and not have those experiences. Josué Cardona 12:18If you change your mind at all, just tell Link Keller 12:20your mom respectfully bowed out before the cringe time come. Lara Taylor 12:25Exactly. It’s, it’s it’s the truth. I was like, huh, I can I can appreciate that. But there are so many other moments in the movie that I was like, Oh, I wish I had that with my mom. There’s, like, Nina and I were watching it together. And when when Mei says, like, I like boys, and I like loud music, and I like to gyrate Nina, was like I feel like that’s something I said to my mother was something like something I said to my mother. I was like, I hope every preteen girl tells her mom, I like to gyrate now. I think Josué Cardona 13:10I’m sure Nina said that. Yeah. Lara Taylor 13:11Something like that. Yeah. Something like that sounds like something she would say. Link Keller 13:16Mom, everybody grinds at the dance. Shut up. Lara Taylor 13:20Right? Josué Cardona 13:21gyrates Marc Cuiriz 13:22Oh, my goodness. Lara Taylor 13:24So there’s so many good moments in this movie, dealing with all kinds of relationships and friendships, family relationships. Get into the grandma and the aunties. And it’s all so good. It’s all so good. I don’t even know where to start. Other than what we’ve already talked about for 15 minutes. Josué Cardona 13:49Link, you got notes. Link Keller 13:51I do have notes. Okay, the scene in the beginning when dad is cooking is so sexy oh my God. I love that very, very Studio Ghibli vibes with the cooking. Fantastic. Studio Ghibli and I love the callback. At the end when mom invites the friends over for dinner and they’re like, Oh, we get to eat his food. Yes. I loved that. That was fantastic. Josué Cardona 14:28Why was it fantastic? Link Keller 14:31Because it was sexy as fuck. Because dad was cooking because it looks so good. Oh my gosh. it’s beautiful Marc Cuiriz 14:43Like the Anime glasses like shine, and then it just was like, oh, no, it’s just the fog. Let me just wipe that off real quick. Link Keller 14:51Yes, yes. I love that. I do want to point out that this is the first Pixar film that is led by a woman Domee Shi, which is very cool. She’s been working with Pixar for many years. But this is this is her project. She’s She is the showrunner, the leader. And I think that’s really cool. And I’m very excited about that. There was so much representation of different types of people just milling about in this school, which I loved. I don’t know if Toronto was actually like that in 2002. But I like to believe that it was because it was beautiful to look at seeing all sorts of different types of people even even at the at the concert that like, when they’re all running away from the giant Pandas. There’s a girl in a wheelchair, I was like, Oh, that’s so cool. I didn’t notice it the first time. The second time. I got very excited. But yeah, lots of lots of great representation. Even within the friend group. Like Miriam and Abby, and Priya, and Mei, it was all so unique and special, and they loved each other so much. It was beautiful. Lara Taylor 16:03I am waiting for Miriam to realize that she likes girls. I’m just saying. Link Keller 16:08I also got that vibe. Big time. Lara Taylor 16:12And I said to Nina when she was like, what is the tomboy want to always gotta be queer. And I was like, because that was me. And I was obsessed with boy bands. My first concert was the Backstreet Boys. So that was Link Keller 16:25I also I also think, Priya gave off some some queer vibes to and they, they sort of danced around it in how she interacted with the goth girl whose name I can’t remember. But they were vibing. And I thought it was very cute. And I was like, oh, oh, are there queers in this friend group. Because if there’s one, there’s probably more than one just statistically speaking. Lara Taylor 16:53Mm hmm. Good movie, good movie. One thing that I liked, I saw this meme that was talking about the relationship with with Mei and her mom. And it basically says, Ming Lee put a lot of pressure and smothered made to the point where she was terrified of ever making a mistake, getting a bad grade, or disappointing her in any way. And there was not a single doubt or implication that Ming Lee didn’t love her family, she loved mei more than anything in the world and constantly showed it. And those are statements that can and should coexist. And I really liked that sentiment that like, parents are imperfect. And they show love in different ways. And maybe, maybe they learned just like Abeula learned in Encanto. Just maybe, Josué Cardona 17:58maybe, maybe, Link Keller 18:01yeah, I really liked the, the relationship that we see between Mei and her mom, and then her mom, and grandma, and how they’ve all sort of dealt with turning into red pandas and also being immigrants, and how the need to fit in has changed over time. And so the standards…

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Philosophical Bachelor Party Feb 27, 2022

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#321: Marc brings a deeply philosophical question to the team: Are we capable of change? We touch on media examples of role models we strive to emulate and the lived experiences (read: parents) that shape our thoughts and behaviors. Compassion and introspection help us to create the changes we want to see. Transcript Josué Cardona 0:11Welcome to GT radio on the Geek Therapy network here Geek Therapy. We believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves through the media we care about, my name is JosuéCardona. And I’m joined by link Keller. Link Keller 0:22Hello, Josué Cardona 0:24Lara Taylor. Lara Taylor 0:25Hey, Josué Cardona 0:26Marc Cuiriz Marc Cuiriz 0:27Hello, Josué Cardona 0:28Marc, it is your turn this week Marc Cuiriz 0:32it is my turn. Okay. Yeah, so it for this one. And I posted this a lot in the discord very, very briefly where I said, I think I’m having an existential crisis. So I kind of wanted to hear your guys’s opinions on this, Lara Taylor 0:46we have an existential crisis on the show, like every week, Marc Cuiriz 0:50that is true, Lara Taylor 0:51you’re in the right place. Marc Cuiriz 0:53After all, 300 of them, I am well versed in your existential crises. So this came up in my last therapy session, where I was talking about the ideas of change, because you know, growing up, dealing with all the crap I’ve had to go through, I’ve always made the conscious choices to be the exact opposite of what I grew up with. So instead of like hiding my emotions, I chose to openly show them and let them be seen, instead of being closed off or aggressive. I was calm and kind and empathetic, and so on and so forth. But now, as I’m getting older, I’m sort of realizing that I’m kind of falling into patterns that I’ve seen before. You know, growing up, and I was like, the question that came up was, are we as people and humans really like blank canvases where we can choose to change and create ourselves, however we so choose? Or is there some sort of like, pre determined behaviors that we kind of learn, as you know, we’re babbies and into young children, that no matter how hard we try to change those things, or better them or in whatever the case is, there are still hints of those always going to let that are always going to kind of shine through and kind of be seen and it’s just something that’s like, you’re kind of stuck with. Josué Cardona 2:26Welcome to GT Radio we’re getting philosophical here. Marc Cuiriz 2:32Basically, Lara Taylor 2:32not a tough question at all, Mark, Josué Cardona 2:35nature versus nurture. I will I will share that. I too, have been motivated throughout my entire life by what I call negative role models. I don’t know if that’s the I don’t think that’s like the correct term. But that’s what I’ve always called them. So I’ve tried to be the opposite of a bunch of people. Link Keller 3:00anti role model? Josué Cardona 3:01A what? Link Keller 3:02anti role model role anti model. Something there Lara Taylor 3:07yeah, yeah, yeah. Josué Cardona 3:09A Roll away? model? I don’t know, but but I’ve used that term, a lot. Lara Taylor 3:17a nat one model. Josué Cardona 3:20But But I too, have learned that I am more like some of those people than I thought. And it is it was not a happy realization at all. I mean, I’ve always I’ve always looked to fictional characters as as role models. Those have always been in my real life. I’ve never had, you know, like, people close to me who I felt were role models. And I Yeah, yeah, no, I’m those are My initial thoughts while I sit over here in this corner process a bit somebody else talk. Lara Taylor 4:05My initial thought is that I think is a combination of both right? We can change where I’m a therapist, I think people can change otherwise, why bother? If you’re going with that painting metaphor, maybe we’re not a blank canvas, maybe someone painted an oil painting and the oil is still malleable, and we can move it around and change it and make it different, it can look different. But those things are still there and influence us whether we like it or not. I don’t know that. That’s my thought. Lara Taylor 4:42Link? Link Keller 4:52I also come from a background of having people close to me that I um especially as a teenager was very vehemently, like, that’s what not to do, I’m going to do whatever that is not. And I have coped with moments in my life where realizations that when you are in novel situations, you don’t have a lot of time to think about stuff. And you react in the moment. And you realize that that reaction is based off of that playbook that you didn’t want to use. But that’s the playbook that you had. And it takes a lot of introspection to be able to recognize when that is happening in the moment. I don’t know if I’m very good at it is something you know, I think that that’s probably a lifelong training thing. But people people are capable of change, I would say that firmly people are capable of change. I think even when we are recreating behaviors, that because the context of our own life is different, that the behaviors are different because of that context. Now, it can have outcomes that are positive or negative, mixed bag, usually mixed bag. But I think it is so important to remember that the context matters, that even if you are recreating shitty behaviors of your parents, like that was in the 90s 80s 70s. It’s like now we’re now and that’s Lara Taylor 6:48just to be clear, no one here was alive in the 70s, Link Keller 6:51I was talking about our parents, Lara Taylor 6:53okay, okay. Josué Cardona 6:59Lara, you weren’t? Lara Taylor 6:59I am a month older than you stop it. I’m gonna keep defending myself. Because Josué called me old last week. Link Keller 7:07I think honestly, one of the big reframing moments for me was realizing that a lot of the stuff it’s the same is the same for our parents, right, that they did things that they swore to themselves that they would never do, because their parents did it to them. And you just unconsciously you do it, you pass it on, you express anger at a situation that really doesn’t require anger, because that’s the shorthand that you learned from your dad. Really showing myself there. But I think Josué Cardona 7:45hypothetically, Lara Taylor 7:47hypothetical situation Link Keller 7:49I think having that realization of like, this happens to literally everybody really helped me be more compassionate towards myself, which that compassion gives space for me to actually have that moment of introspection, and, you know, next time be able to be like, oh, oh, I’m getting that feeling right now that I’m about to do something that is based in, in the past, and it doesn’t need to be I can, I can take this moment and change, I can do something different, I can make a different choice. But it definitely it took a lot of years and a lot of really trying to see specifically parents as real, multifaceted people who have all the same bullshit from their history that affects who they are currently. And that is, that is me, that is my parents, those my grandparents, as their parents we are all just doing our best Lara Taylor 8:54Abuela and the Madrigals Link Keller 8:56absolutely great example right there. Josué Cardona 9:01Marc, are we are we? I know. I think there’s two different things, right. And I said, nature versus nurture at the beginning and kind of we’re talking about our parents and the playbook that I like the way you said that. Link, it’s like, it’s the one we have. So like, you know, what else were we gonna do? But I think that that’s, that it’s not necessarily this this same, like it can be separated from just the idea of, of change, like behavior change, belief change, you know, there’s so many things that you you you can change so I’m curious if you’re, you’re coming at it from from like struggling to change particular behaviors or aspects of your life that you feel are maybe difficult because of the way you were brought up and then or, or Are you thinking like, it’s more? Like, oh, I’m programmed this way. I mean, what am I gonna do? Like that’s, that’s, that’s, that’s the that’s how I was coded when I was when I was born. So like, where do you want to go with this? And kind of where are you now? Marc Cuiriz 10:16Yeah, well, I mean, I think what the way what the way Link was saying everything, it kind of made me have some sort of realization moments. Josué Cardona 10:24woah Marc Cuiriz 10:24Because with the playbook with the whole playbook idea, it made me sort of realize something that like, the reason I feel like why I’m kind of struggling with these things is because I mean, I mean, this Friday, I’m going to be married, which is all happy fun time stuff, which is, it’s great. And I’m excited for it. However, Josué Cardona 10:44two days before your wedding, you’re here with us. Marc Cuiriz 10:48Consider this my bachelor party. Josué Cardona 10:53That’s the title of this episode. Marc Cuiriz 10:54The bachelor party. Oh, I love it. So, but like, the thing is, is that like, you know, like, with my dad, like, he’s one of those people that often withheld, like, a lot of his emotions. And then when whenever he did express emotion, it was usually like frustration or irritation. And recently, that’s what I started noticing myself, where I’m finding myself withholding a lot of emotion. And trying to like, maybe solve the problem or take care of an issue that’s going on in the house. Like, you know, I had to try to replace like a whole shower arm and fix my shower, which was a big pain in the ass. But, like going into it now, like knowing that I’m about to take this huge step. I find like now I’m sort of like, going through his playbook way. Like, alright, what do I do next? Like, how do I do this? Like, how does one be a quote unquote, husband, and the only reference that I have is really shitty role models. So with you with link saying like the the playbook, it’s like, oh, well, that makes a whole lot of sense. But I remember when I when I pitched this topic, I, you know, there’s a couple things, there’s like a couple shows that we all have all heard, all have seen, all have loved. It’s like the good place. And Steven Universe, two big shows that kind of really touch on them the idea of change, and like, this ability to sort of change so like Steven Universe is, is more of a, I would say is more of a positive, like, take on it of like, Yeah, everybody’s capable of change. And, you know, it doesn’t matter what your past is, you have the power to change what your future is going to be. Whereas the Good Place talks more about, like, we are so ingrained into these behaviors, and it takes a great deal amount of effort, it shows like the effort it takes to make these changes and how to make them more permanent and for the better, you know, should you want to go that route. So I mean, like, I don’t know, I’m kind of curious and like, what you guys are so to thinking about, like that idea of like, is it like something that like, oh, ever, like, you know, Lara you were saying that, like, everybody’s capable of it? Or, you know, that’s, that’s your thought because otherwise, what’s the point of being a therapist? You know, so that I’m just kind of curious to see like, what were you guys are, are sort of on this whole spectrum of change. Josué Cardona 13:33Well, I I have a question for you before I answer that one. Which is what so you you had a father that was uh, you know, you’re saying like was maybe not the best example for the kind of husband you want to be? And you said you know, you didn’t have any other examples. is Lara Taylor 13:53I think your brain is going where my brain Josué Cardona 13:56Yeah, like us you have like Were there ever any husbands that you saw real or fictional that you thought Damn I wish my dad was like that or Oh, I like if I when I grew up I want to be I want to be like that because that would that would be great. Link Keller 14:16my immediate thought was like I was a child how many stories I read about orphans like yeah, man, I wish I could be like that. Oh, ouch. Marc Cuiriz 14:32No more you know, I mean, with Percy Jackson, you know, tricking in the first book you have a horrible step-dad that and then throughout the rest of the series, you have a very distant and absent dad that hey, he’s there. Just so you know. Lara Taylor 14:47Interesting because yeah, my brain went the same place Josué because you brought up like, you turn to fictional characters for for role models and like, I think about my own relationship and There were no like model like I had my my mom was a model of how to be a wife. But that’s in a straight relationship that’s very different. And it brings me back to the Fosters. And how Lena and Stef, the moms on that show. Were like me, and Nina has like, relationship goals. That is like goals right there. I mean, yes, there’s a lot of like fighting and possible, like infidelity and all kinds of things. Josué Cardona 15:29and foster children Lara Taylor 15:29But like, children, and so many, so many foster children, so many foster children, but like the idea of the way they supported each other and the way they solve their problems toward the end, which is different change in the beginning, they weren’t talking to each other, they weren’t having, like, these important conversations, they would just have feelings and do things on their own. And then later, they would talk toward the end of the show talk to each other, but like, that was goals. That was what I could look to and be like, there is a relationship that I could model myself after. I mean, my parents relationship was okay, but it was cut short when my mom died. So I, I have the idealized version of that. So I don’t have the realities of like, what happens when people argue in a marriage, or things like that? So um, yeah, fictional characters, finding those, finding those people that you want to be like? Josué Cardona 15:29Yeah. Lara Taylor 16:14I mean, I’m all for suggestions. Because growing up I had like, none of that. Granted, I was exposed to a lot of media that probably was not suitable for my age. Like, Adult Swim, for example. Marc Cuiriz 16:53I don’t want to talk about porn. Marc Cuiriz 16:54No, no, no, no, I’m talking like South Park and Family Guy in a future Rama. Lara Taylor 17:00So that that is what where you were media has steered you wrong? Marc Cuiriz 17:04Yes. Yes, it has. I mean, like in terms of like, personal role models that I had the fictional characters like, you know, Spider Man, and just kind of superheroes in general. But in terms of like, what a family is supposed to look like, or like, what a like a husband is supposed to be like, and you know, as like a goals thing. Never really saw a lot of that. Lara Taylor 17:30Just go watch this is us there’s plenty of examples. Josué Cardona 17:34I just watched an episode called three dads. It’s four dads? three dads? Lara Taylor 17:39I don’t think I’m don’t think I’m, you’re on the final season. I’m not Josué Cardona 17:43I’m in the final season. I’m, Lara Taylor 17:45yeah, I’m on the final season, but like the third episode, Josué Cardona 17:48but something it’s like four fathers and it’s like, you know, across time, all these different fathers, you know, Lara Taylor 17:54and it shows that not all of them are perfect. All of them screw up in their marriages, their relationships, their being a parent, but most of them learn from their mistakes. Most of them. Most of them. Josué Cardona 18:10I’m thinking, this has me thinking on. Like, we like drama. Right? Like, like, there isn’t like there’s no soap opera of people just living like a drama free life of people who are perfect. Like that’s, that’s boring. Yeah, it wouldn’t, it wouldn’t go anywhere. When when Bob Saget died recently, I remember remembering like, I remember, because my parents got divorced. And I didn’t live with with my dad. Like, I don’t know, like, Da…

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Kimi and the Locked Door Feb 20, 2022

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#320: Link watched Kimi (2022) and wanted to talk about the portrayal of the main character’s agoraphobia and anxious behaviors. Josué and Lara discuss how context impacts our ability to overcome anxiety, and how other media tries to represent the experience. Transcript [PASTE TRAN Josué Cardona 0:11Welcome to GT radio on the Geek Therapy network. here at Geek Therapy We believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves through the media we care about, my name is Josué Cardona. And I’m joined by Lara Taylor. Lara Taylor 0:21Hey, Josué Cardona 0:24and Link and a baby. Link Keller 0:26Wahh Josué Cardona 0:30Link, It’s your turn. What are we talking about This week? Link Keller 0:33we are talking about a film that came out recently on on HBO Max called Kimi Josué Cardona 0:41starring Zoë Kravitz as Kimi. Josué Cardona 0:44Starring Zoë Kravitz as Angela Childs. Josué Cardona 0:49oh Link Keller 0:49Kimi is the name of this world’s Siri, Alexa, the Smart Voice machine that is in it inside of everybody’s houses and is always recording. And Angela works as a moderator functionally, she, she gets the audio pieces from when Kimi is marked as like making a mistake. And she goes in and she’s training Kimi to be to be better. That’s that is a real job that people do. She Josué Cardona 1:30so in the movie, they make it sound like nobody else does that. And, and what sets Kimi apart from the other ones, right. And they call them out by name. But like we’re special, because we have someone who’s like we have real people fixing, you know, and working in the background. Link Keller 1:51Yes. Josué Cardona 1:52But is that is that true? Link Keller 1:55I don’t know. I I have always assumed that real people are hands on in training AI to do things because its necessary Lara Taylor 2:11otherwise you get random things. Yeah. Josué Cardona 2:13Yeah. But to what extent though, right? Link Keller 2:16I hope not to the extent that is shown in Kimi, Josué Cardona 2:20that’s what I’m thinking. Right? Because the idea is like, machine learning is using tons of other references to learn so because that would be faster. And then in the movie, what they’re saying is, we are special because we still have that human element and like, like AI isn’t there yet. And so we have people doing this. And and yeah, I don’t I don’t know that I would call it moderation, right? I mean, exactly. But she Lara Taylor 2:52quality assurance? Josué Cardona 2:53I mean, it’s definitely like a QA role, for sure. It is definitely a training a training model, right. Like she is writing, like syntax. She’s like, this thing that a person says, Is this and she’s writing it in a way for the system to understand it in the future, because it didn’t understand it this time, but she does make the the comment at one point that she was a Facebook moderator. And, and kinda the Some similarities in just the the horrible things that she’s that she’s seen. Yeah. Yeah. But I thought that was really interesting to, to think of like to see someone in that role. Because like, we know that there are moderators out there. and we’ve talked about it in the past. I don’t remember if it was on this show, or on. I know we definitely talked about on PsychTech at some point. Lara Taylor 3:52I think we talked about it on this show. Josué Cardona 3:55Right? Lara Taylor 3:55Because we’ve I’ve talked about it with you. Josué Cardona 3:57Yeah. Lara Taylor 3:58Like yeah, the it was about video games and watching. Like, the artists and designers needing to watch violent material over and over and over again. Josué Cardona 4:09Yeah, that was a that was that. Was that a Headshots discussion, too? Lara Taylor 4:14We it might have been I mean, we did do some crossover. Josué Cardona 4:17Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and I remember Link Keller 4:20Yeah, I think it’s been on all all of them. Josué Cardona 4:22Yeah. Yeah. We haven’t talked about in a long time. And I don’t remember ever seeing this represented in a story. I’m sure you know, this. I’m sure there’s at least one law and order episode. Where we see someone in this role, but to see like a fictional dramatic, you know, version of this when you I mean, it’s gotta be like, you can’t even make a comedy show out of that because it’s too depressing. Like you can make a sitcom out of you know, people who are moderating social media. Lara Taylor 4:58You can try, Link Keller 4:59you could Josué Cardona 5:00But it would be it would it would just feel you’d be glossing over all of the real terrible things. Link Keller 5:07I imagine it would feel similar to Brooklyn nine nine’s final season in. It’s like, this is weird. This is not landing. Josué Cardona 5:15Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I mean, and this movie. It does, it reminds me, you know, I mean, we haven’t even gotten to like, the anxiety stuff. But like, just this piece of it reminds me of part of our discussion about the Mitchell versus the machines. Right? It’s like, sure, that technology, we can talk about that technology, but also, like, let’s not ignore all of the terrible parts of this. I mean, and it is, you know, it is it is leaning into the big bad Corporation type of type of thing or people within the corporation with nefarious intent. But it doesn’t, it feels grounded, in a way. Because it is, you know, it is a device that we we there devices that we have at home that we don’t think about. I don’t think that I mean, some people do think about them this way. But But I think most people don’t. Link Keller 6:18I mean, a big part of what goes into designing these, this technology is to make it as unobtrusive as possible. And so there’s very much a encouragement from the user interfaces to be like, don’t don’t think about it. Like you don’t need to think about don’t even worry, don’t fret, your little minds, just, you know, it’s there. And you use it when you need to, and otherwise ignore its existence. Josué Cardona 6:48yeah. Link Keller 6:50Which is not great. But from a design perspective, like if that’s the intention, they nailed it. Yeah, okay. So basic plot of Kimi is that it takes place in the modern era, post, concurrently, COVID time, and Angela has agoraphobia. And so she works from home, and she does not leave her house. She’s very uncomfortable leaving her house. She has a lot of behaviors that she does that are built into to keep her safe and contained within her home. Which, you know, the agoraphobia aspect is always very interesting. Mental health stuff, but it fits in so nicely with the idea of like, Nah, dog, the whole world is supposed to be inside, like, many people are working from home and have to deal with like, Okay, can I get the things that I need from outside to come to where I am inside. So she’s, she’s working from home. And she gets a message to she’s listening to the audio recordings from Kimi speakers. And she’s going through and she’s fixing, you know, Kimi, teaching Kimi like, you know, that’s a slang term. And this is, you know, like a different pronunciation of something and all that stuff. And she overhears a recording, that sounds like a violent altercation between people. And she immediately tries to report this to people above her. And then, because it’s a thriller, movie, exciting things happen. And it’s Josué Cardona 9:04exciting things happen. Exciting things exciting. Link Keller 9:06It’s exciting. It’s is a cool movie. I enjoyed it. It had a fun ending. But mostly, I just wanted to talk about how anxiety is like portrayed in movies that we watch and how it gets worked into this COVID stuff, I think is really important that we are seeing that reflected in our media currently, because one still happening and to it like it’s important. It’s an experience a lot of people had to deal with. If you were already an anxious person dealing with the pandemic ratcheted that anxiety up to the max. I remember. Early on in the pandemic, we had a conversation about COVID And I remember expressing that In some ways, I felt less anxious because it felt like other people were finally getting to my level of just normal working anxiety. And there was a sort of relief to that, where it’s like, oh, I finally finally people are sort of understanding, like, the anxiety of existing. But yeah, anyways, I think that this movie is really cool. And I think they did a really good job of showing Angela’s anxiety and her fear of of leaving the house, which was due to her own assault that she experienced. And that was the thing she was coping with. And there’s a scene where she talks on the phone with her her psychiatrist, which I enjoyed, or therapist, I don’t remember if it clarifies which one. And then her talking with her mom. Just seeing the way people are trying to support her. But also recognizing like, it’s is still COVID, like, it’s probably good for you that you don’t go out is like, Oh, how do I reconcile that? Josué Cardona 11:18Okay, we haven’t done this in a while where we kind of like pick apart the quality of the representation. So I am sad to report that it’s not a good therapist. She she calls in Lara Taylor 11:33we always have hope Josué. We always have hope and then Josué Cardona 11:36I know. I know. Lara Taylor 11:37And then they take it from us, Josué Cardona 11:40I know. So she so she calls Angela. And just goes, Hey, we had a session started 20 minutes ago, they were like, What are you doing? And it wasn’t like a playful Hey, how ya doin’ like. What, what do you do? First of all, what therapists is gonna call their, their, their client 20 minutes later? Lara Taylor 12:01No, Josué Cardona 12:02that’s no show Lara Taylor 12:03no show after 15 minutes Josué Cardona 12:03Either way. Lara Taylor 12:04It’s I got a call I have my company calls five minutes after. Josué Cardona 12:08Yeah. Lara Taylor 12:08And if they don’t show up by the 15th. Josué Cardona 12:11You got to break it. And it costs you and you got to pay for that for our time. So no, unrealistic also. Like, just like, Lara Taylor 12:21hey, you’re late Josué Cardona 12:22scolding her? Yeah, really ever being 20 minutes late. Lara Taylor 12:25Like, I will have a conversation like, Hey, what’s up, like? Josué Cardona 12:31She was being rude. But, like, here’s your therapist, like, you’re not even checking up on her. You’re just like, You’re being rude. Link Keller 12:40And then also, like, immediately shifted into like, Hey, I think that you should just tell the story of what happened to you like, the traumatic thing that’s affecting your life. Like you should just like say it right now is like, whoa, we did not warm up. You came in hot and kind of rude yourself. Like, this is not conducive to the therapeutic relationship Lara Taylor 13:02usually build up to that you have a few sessions of like, okay, we’re going to talk about what happens. Sometimes you don’t even have to talk about what happened for trauma work, but if you’re gonna do that, like have a session before Hey, we’re going to talk about your trauma. Let’s like get comfy what are the things that are gonna make you feel safe around you especially with that at home therapy right now with the with the telehealth, this is not this is not sound good to me. Josué Cardona 13:29So yeah no, this therapist, EH but bonus points for how bad the video quality was on the call. Doesn’t have to be that way. Lara Taylor 13:41I will have you know that my video quality is good. Josué Cardona 13:45My quality is good. Your Yeah. Yeah. I mean, look, Lara Taylor 13:49I had a colleague asked me what my mic I use because they want a better setup. Josué Cardona 13:54Of course. Yeah. Yeah. I’m convinced you know that, that the quality that we’re at my camera, like it’s just distracting in meetings. Even if they don’t bring it up, they’re like, why it’s happening. Why? Why doesn’t this look blurry and terrible? Lara Taylor 14:13why do you look like a real person? Josué Cardona 14:15What are you like, Why do you sound clear? Why is your back anyway? I mean, that’s Link Keller 14:19I’m sorry, what were you saying? You’re just so handsome and in high definition, and I can’t what? I missed it. Oh. Josué Cardona 14:28Just so bonus points for the for the blurry therapist. Yeah, not good. And then, so the agoraphobia. i i so this is this is my opinion. I’ve worked with with clients where with agoraphobia, and but just like all anxiety, I mean, it can look so many different ways. But what I appreciated about the way that they showed it and they don’t call it out specifically, right, they don’t they don’t say that she has agoraphobia Link Keller 14:55they don’t say that she has agoraphobia in the movie. They do say it in The little Lara Taylor 15:02synopsis, Josué Cardona 15:03okay, okay, okay, okay, then then Yep. Then we then we then we will address it as, Lara Taylor 15:08as agoraphobia Josué Cardona 15:08as if they’re intending to show agoraphobia. So what? What I appreciated about it was that she seems cool. She’s like flirting with neighbors, she’s texting, she’s so she’s good at her job, she’s got equipment, blah, blah, blah. And she wants to go outside. And she tries. And that’s when you see it. It’s like, it’s just like its. That door, it’s just it is an insurmountable obstacle, and she feels defeated. And you see the struggle, of that experience of going of passing that threshold out. So I appreciated that Lara Taylor 15:51very different from the experience of like, it’s COVID, I just want to stay inside and do nothing, right? Or live my life inside. This is this is someone who genuinely it’s, I guess, you would say, like, impairing her functioning, she wants to go out, she wants a life out there. And it’s not and the door is, like, essentially, in her mind barred and locked with 25 different locks, and there’s a big dog in front of it, and it’s on fire. Josué Cardona 16:22Yeah. But I think I think that part was, you know, like, I appreciated the way that they showed that. It’s like, it’s, it’s that piece of it, right? Like, she’s, she feel safe at home and she’s comfortable. Like, she’s, she’s productive, you know, she’s productive. She has, she has a job she has, you know, a social life. Like she’s connected, all these things are fine. You know, or seem healthy. She seemed, you know, capable. And then boom, like, that is that’s the clinically significant component. It’s not like, Oh, she’s agoraphobic. Look, you know, and then they represented her as like, you know, something like, like, super nervous all the time inside the house or something different. You know, it was like, No, this is this is what’s happening. And when they in there was a moment where they address someone, she’s talking to a doctor, I believe was a dentist, maybe not, maybe not that it was some sort of Link Keller 16:22it was her dentist, Josué Cardona 17:01it was a dentist, right? Yeah. And he said, You I thought you were getting better at about this meaning, you know, the fear of the anxiety or the fear of leaving the house. And as you said, I was, but then COVID happened, you know, like, like, imagine how many people right like Lara Taylor 17:38went through that? Josué Cardona 17:39Oh, my God, I Yeah. Deeply related to that part. Because I have not been to a dentist in a really long time. And I know I need to go. I don’t have a lot of like dentist specific anxieties, but just setting up appointments and and like finding a place to go and going and doing the whole intake and I know they’ll need to do X rays. And I know I have a cavity that so I’ll have to do a second appointment for the cavity filling as like that. Lara Taylor 18:11And it’s the one appointment where you can’t wear a mask. The one appointment Link Keller 18:16Yeah. I’ve gotten so used to having my lower face covered in the public. And now it’s like, I have to go reveal myself This is worse than gynecology like, damn, oh, you’re gonna stick your hands in my mouth, ugh. Josué Cardona 18:34So it had been years and so I…

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The Power of Friendship Feb 13, 2022

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#319: Josué thought we’d be talking about procrastination and the feeling of relief when you finally do the thing. But after some reflection, the team realized the power of friendship can help you do anything – even finish that game (or other media) you’ve been meaning to complete. Transcript Josué Cardona 0:11Welcome to GT radio on the Geek Therapy network. here at Geek Therapy, we believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves is through the media we care about. My name is Josué Cardona joined by Lara Taylor. Lara Taylor 0:21Hey, Josué Cardona 0:23and Link Keller, Link Keller 0:24what’s up, Friends? Josué Cardona 0:25What is up, everybody? It’s my turn to choose a topic this week. And ah, okay. That’s it. Let’s see, let’s see if we can follow along with where I’m going with this. Okay, so I’m gonna tell you story. A story. A long time ago, I forgot what was it 2017? maybe? a little game called the Breath of the Wild came out. It was it was amazing. It was so good. I loved it. So, so so much. I didn’t have a Nintendo Switch at the time. I was like, happened. I have a Wii U, I’m just gonna I’m just gonna play it on Wii U. And I played it and I beat the the four beasts. And then I, you know, all I had to do is get, you know, go to Hyrule Castle and defeat Ganon. And, and, but there were also lots of other things and Korok seeds and all that stuff. Anyway, so So then I don’t know why I didn’t get around to to go go to Ganon. And so when I got to switch, I, I decided that’s my favorite game. I’m just gonna start over, it’s fine. so then I play Breath of the Wild. And I beat the for the four beasts. And and yeah, I did not beat ganon again. There were a couple reasons for that. So fast forward to 2022. So five years later. And I decided, or a friend was playing the game. And I was like, oh, yeah, no, I’m, I’m like, for five years. I’m still saying I don’t know, but I’m gonna finish it soon. I’m gonna, you know, I’m still playing Breath of the Wild. And every now and then I go back. I go back, i got a motorcycle that has all this stuff. thing. And I think I played for a bit and I was thinking, what else do I need to do is like, oh, you know what? I didn’t do the trial of the sword. I do the trial of the sword, then. Then I’ll be stronger. And then then I’ll be ready to beat ganon. Right, then I’ll do it. And then maybe maybe that was last year, but earlier this year. 2022. I’m ready. I’m ready to play the game. And so a friend of mine is doing it. I’m like, This is it. I’m gonna I’m gonna finish it. I’m going to finish this game. Finally, stop this. This. This has to end, I need to finish this game. And I booted up and I immediately go oh, look, still trial of the sword. Maybe I should do that. Because then I’ll be ready. No, no, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, let me let me not do this. I left that I finally beat the game. And I took like 15 minutes. Okay, well, I was I was strong enough. I was strong enough. But around that time that I decided I was reflecting upon why I have so many unfinished things like unfinished video games, unfinished projects, unfinished TV shows unfinished movies, like, I don’t know, there’s a lot of stuff that was unfinished. And I started thinking about how good it feels to complete something. And so it felt really really good to finish Breath of the Wild especially after all those years where it was kind of looming. And, and I started reflecting on other areas in my life anywhere I’ve I start things and I and I don’t finish them or for the reasons why so I want to talk about some of the reasons why I think I never finished Breath of the Wild until now. And some of the reasons why I haven’t finished other things and then some of the reasons why I haven’t finished other things in in my life. And and maybe the the benefits or the catharsis of actually finishing things. It’s it’s a lot I think it covers a lot of things, but it was that particular experience around Breath of the Wild and other geeky pursuits that made me reflect pretty hard on on how that’s a pattern in my life. Can either of you relate in any way? Link Keller 4:43Yes. Josué Cardona 4:44Yeah. In what way? Link Keller 4:50I have been a consistently gets to the last area level dungeon, of a video game. And I stop a stop playing for a couple of weeks. And then I go, Man, I should really finish that and I go back. And because I haven’t played in several weeks, I’m not I’m not good at it immediately. And so I go ugh it’s too hard. And I stop and I never play it again. I have gotten better about that in more recent years, but definitely, like, early adulthood, my late teens, early 20s is is just a huge swath of almost finished games. It was very much a pattern for me. I think, majority of the time. The reason was, is that finishing the game meant that I was I was done with it. And I didn’t want to be done with it yet. And so I would be functionally done with it because I’d stopped playing with it. But emotionally I’m not done with it yet. It’s still there. And so I can hold on to it. And the experience isn’t over yet. I’m not ready to let go of it. So I don’t! very, yeah. Josué Cardona 6:16That I mean, that is I think the main issue that I had with Breath of the Wild. I love that game so much that I could not bring myself to make it and Link Keller 6:29I have still not beat Ganon in breath of the wild. Lara Taylor 6:32I’m I still haven’t beat the camel in the desert. Because I can’t I just can’t can’t Josué Cardona 6:40that was pretty hard. Link Keller 6:42that was the hardest one Josué Cardona 6:43that was the hardest one for me. Lara Taylor 6:44I can’t Well, I was trying to do that one. And then I was like, You know what, I’m gonna go beat the other one, the whatever one what did i have to do? i had to beat, the bird. And I went did that and then I came back. I was like, I’m gonna beat this camel. Absolutely not. I just can’t, my hands will not let me do the thing I need to do and I know what I need to do. It’s just a matter of doing it. Which is a whole other thing in video games. Josué Cardona 7:10Mine was the other issue. Like I could do it, but I didn’t know what I had to do. Once I figured it out. Lara Taylor 7:14I will I will up that and I have never beaten a Legend of Zelda game. Josué Cardona 7:21Never? none of them? Lara Taylor 7:22Never. I have. I have watched someone beat Twilight Princess and watch someone beat ocarina of time. Technically, it was my copy of the game. So I guess maybe I beat it. But it was like a group play. But I’ve never beaten. I usually give up around the Water Temple. Yeah. But I am I am like, in the last couple years, I have beaten more video games than I have. Probably in the years before. I still have a lot of unfinished games. I don’t think it’s because I’m not ready. I think it’s because something I take long to finish a game. And something new and shiny comes out. And I really want to play that because I’m really excited about that thing. And I’ve been trying more and more to not do that. So, Josué Cardona 8:14okay, so we’ve got I don’t want it to end we’ve got it’s, it’s just too hard. And I’m stuck. Right. And so so I couldn’t I could not advance Lara Taylor 8:22or I’m taking my time and then something new comes along that I want. Yeah, mhmm Josué Cardona 8:26yeah. Yeah. Which which could be, um, Lara Taylor 8:29which I’m about to hit with horizon: Forbidden West and Tiny Tina’s wonderlands. Boom, boom. Josué Cardona 8:37Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that could be two things. And not necessarily. They could both happen at the same time. But that’s Lara Taylor 8:45two separate things. Yeah. Josué Cardona 8:46No, but But it’s that shiny. Oh, something else more interesting. But also maybe like you got out of it what you wanted like Lara Taylor 8:55there are some games. I don’t think I’m gonna go back to I don’t think I’m going to go back to I really love Red, Red, Red Dead Redemption 2. But I don’t think I’m going to go back to it. Josué Cardona 9:04Yeah, Lara Taylor 9:05the option is always there. But I’m not. Like I got what I needed out of it. It was really cool. But by now, I can’t remember all those sub menus and stuff for that game. Same reason I haven’t gone back to Hades. I’m finished Hades Because I’m scared to go back. Because my muscle memory is gone. And I’m not going to be able to get as far again, so I’ll just watch some videos and see how it ends. Josué Cardona 9:32Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, okay, so all these are reasons, um, any any other examples or reasons why maybe, you know, upon reflection, there are some games that of course, we’re talking about games that have some kind of goal to achieve. That has not been achieved, because some some games don’t necessarily have a goal. You may have a goal, like I’m going to level up to this to this point, or I’m going to reach this tier, you know, or this ranking. And then and then I’m done. I just want to play all this. But not all games have like a story in a campaign that ends. Lara Taylor 10:05I mean, you bring that up. And then I think about the fact that I told myself, I have beaten Chrono Trigger a bazillion times, but my goal was to get all of the characters leveled up to 99. That was what I was gonna do. And then I was gonna get all the endings. I have everyone, except for Magus leveled up to 99. And I was like, fuck it. I’m done. Because he’s the hardest one cuz you get him halfway through the game. So he’s the hardest one to level up. So tired of it? Let go of it. Josué Cardona 10:44Yeah, okay. Okay. Okay. Lara Taylor 10:46There’s another reason. Josué Cardona 10:47Yeah, yeah. Link Keller 10:49When I was young, in middle school, I got really hung on to this idea of having to finish every book that I started. And I read, I read a lot of books. I still read a lot of books. But I got I got really hung on the idea of like, I have to finish every book, I start, I must finish. And I read. I don’t even remember what the series is called. There. It was this multi book fantasy series that had magic rocks, like, round, spherical gemstones that were magic. And they did characters were trying to collect them. Anyways, I read that I’ve forced myself through the first book, even though I wasn’t enjoying it. And then I was like, Well, it’s a series book. So I have to read the next one. And I got halfway through it. And I was like, This is so boring. I’m just I’m not, I’m not going to stop. I’m just going to put it to the side. I’m going to read this other book that I borrowed from the library, because it’s due soon, I’m just gonna step over here to this other. didn’t go back. Years later, four or five years later, I was like, What should I read? Oh, here’s a fantasy novel that doesn’t look familiar to me. I should read this. I start reading like, these magic rocks are kind of familiar. Huh, wait. And I realized this was that series that I was like, why I’m doing I’m doing it again. Josué Cardona 12:23did you find it boring again? Link Keller 12:24I found it boring again. And that was honestly that was the the thing that pushed me over into realizing like, Oh, I’ve read this before, I was like, Oh, my gosh, I’m getting bored at the same part. And that was like the first sort of like, okay, maybe I maybe I don’t need to, maybe I don’t need to finish it, I can just let it go. It’s not for me, that’s fine. And then I just, it sort of flipped a switch for me. Where I was like, it is okay to engage with a piece of media and decide that it’s not for me, and I’m not like, inherently a bad or lazy person. Because I decided, you know, I don’t want to finish it. I’m fine. That was like the beginning of that. I didn’t really internalize that until I was trying to read Lord of the Rings. And I made three attempts at that. Where I read halfway through fellowship with ring, and I was like, I’m bored and to read something else. And I was like, wait, no, Lord of the Rings. I love Lord of the Rings to read it. And I read all of fellowship, and I get halfway through two towers. And I’m like, I’m bored again. Okay. Third time start over from the beginning again, which is also part of my problem is that when I started just like I’ve stopped and it’s been like, oh, it’s been like 13 months. It’s like, well, obviously all of that memory is gone. I must begin from step one. You don’t you don’t need to do that. Lara Taylor 13:53You don’t especially when like books are released, like years apart. Like are you gonna have to read all the Game of Thrones, the Song of Fire and Ice books again, when whenever George R R Martin I might I might at this point Link Keller 14:08I mean, i probably will, but, I don’t feel the same drive that I did back then. I mean, you know, when I was young is like with the Harry Potter books. Every time a new Harry Potter book would come out, I would read from the beginning and read all of them again. Which when the seventh book came out and I never read Harry Potter again, which I still feel that’s a side story. We don’t need to go there anyways. It took me several years maybe even like a decade before being honest to really sort of internalize that idea of being like it is okay that I don’t finish everything that I start. Josué Cardona 14:14Yeah, Link Keller 14:15vis-à-vis media consumption. Taking that lesson and applying it to other things in my life has taken even longer. Getting there. I’m getting there. But yeah, Josué Cardona 14:56there’s Yeah, yeah. So Okay, so I, I want to spend some time on this one because I think and I know a lot of people in in fandom communities I think struggle with this right they there’s like this rigidity that we that we, that we put on it like there are these rules. Like if I if I started it, I have to finish it or like I’m committed, you know, I watched the first episode. That’s it. I can’t I can’t stop now. Or I watched the season like, this season sucks, but you know, I got it, I gotta keep doing it. Or it is it is amazing to me when to see people complaining about a game. Or like, oh, 40 hours in like, how when will the sand I’m like, yo, you spent 40 hours on this thing that you don’t even like, because you have to reach the end. And of course, you don’t have to Lara Taylor 15:52although sometimes with the game though. They bought the game for 60-70 bucks. They want to get something out of it. Josué Cardona 16:03Yeah, but but that’s just a rationalization of this. Right? Like, that’s good, right? Like, we have different reasons, right? Like, what were some of the reasons why you have to finish a book that you mentioned, link, you were like you like if not I’m What do you say? You say I’m lazy? If not, I’m what Link Keller 16:20I mean, that was that was a big part of it is like a feeling like oh, well, I, I said I’m doing air quotes, I said I was gonna do it by checking it out of the library. I was I was making an agreement with the library that I would read this book to completion. Josué Cardona 16:37Right Link Keller 16:38no I was, no I didn’t, the library didn’t care. Lara Taylor 16:41they don’t care. unless it’s an assignment for class. they don’t care Link Keller 16:45Now, now that we’re talking about it, I think specifically books, it is tied to being in elementary school and the summer reading challenges. And it’s like, I have to finish the book, so that I can put the book on the list so that I get the points for reading that book, so that I get the pizza party or the sticker book or whatever prize they were giving out. And so it’s like, Lara Taylor 17:10incentives work, people Link Keller 17:13if people see me with the book, then they’re, they’re gonna assume that I read the whole thing. So I have to read the whole thing. So that I meet that unspoken expectation that I’m projecting on to other people. Josué Cardona 17:27Right? I have to. Link Keller 17:28also also very much a being a voracious reader as a as a kid, it was very much tied into my identity. A…

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Table Top RPG? Twitch Therapy RPG! Feb 06, 2022

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#318: Lara and Special guest Kayla Devorak share some of the major emotional moments and therapeutic epiphanies they’ve had while playing Kids on Brooms with the CASTT Gamers group on Twitch. https://www.twitch.tv/castt_gamers/ Transcript Josué Cardona 0:12Welcome to GT radio on the Geek Therapy network here Geek Therapy. We believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves through the media we care about, my name is Josué Cardona. And I’m joined by link Keller. Link Keller 0:22hiiiiii Josué Cardona 0:23Lara Taylor. Lara Taylor 0:24Hey, Josué Cardona 0:26and special guests first time on. GT radio Kayla Devorak. Kayla Devorak 0:32Hello. Josué Cardona 0:33Devorak? Devorak? Devorak, Kayla Devorak 0:36Devorak Josué Cardona 0:36Devorak Kayla Devorak 0:37Yeah. Don’t say Devorak. That’s incorrect. Josué Cardona 0:41Thank you. Thank you for Yeah, Lara Taylor 0:43Josué is very specific, about pronouncing, Kayla Devorak 0:45thank you for asking Josué Cardona 0:45I want to make sure. I want to make sure it’s right. It’s important to me. Yeah. Yeah. Welcome. The reason why you’re here is because Lara, you know, we take turns picking a topic. And every week, you know, one of us goes, and we really bring up who’s gonna go? And I’ve been asking Lara, and she kept saying, like, oh, I don’t know, I don’t have an idea because I’ve been obsessed with something. And it gets, and the first week, okay, it’s fine. We can skip you. And then the second time, she said, I was like, Whoa, that’s your topic that I think that’s it. I think we Lara Taylor 1:23the first time was something else. But then it was my second time. And I was like, all that’s on my brain is buying this house. stuff at work. And this Friday night CASTT game we’ve been playing. Josué Cardona 1:40Please tell us more about that. Lara Taylor 1:42I got to explain everything? Josué Cardona 1:45Start with explaining CASTT, and then and then and then explain what’s happening on CASTT. Lara Taylor 1:50Here, Kayla, you want to explain? Kayla Devorak 1:51Hi, yeah, I can explain CASTT a CASTT it stands for community of applied spiritual, and therapeutic tabletop gamers. We are a Discord server of helping professionals who like to use tabletop role playing games, and board games in an applied manner. We also stream doing those things. Lara Taylor 2:22Yeah, more and more shows being added. Kayla Devorak 2:25We have Friday night casts, which is every Friday night at 9:30pm. Eastern on Twitch, I always forget the timezone transitions. And then we have every other Sunday is gays of our lives, which is an all queer cast playing queer games and talking about being queer. That’s every other Sunday. And then newly started is the tabletop transformations, which is the fourth Thursday of every month where Menachem and Tanya talk about how tabletop games can help us in our spiritual journeys. We have another show coming, but I can’t talk about that one yet. No. Link Keller 3:11For our listeners, you can check that out at Twitch tv slash CASTT. Lara Taylor 3:17With two Ts underscore gamers, Kayla Devorak 3:20yes, thank you. Lara Taylor 3:21Or on YouTube. were CASTT with two T’s gamers no underscore. Kayla Devorak 3:30That’s correct. Lara Taylor 3:31Yeah, yeah. And Josué Cardona 3:32that Discord server, how could we possibly find it or join? If we were so interested. Kayla Devorak 3:41We’re working on getting a submission form built out in our it’ll be in our link tree which you can access in our about page on Twitch. Josué Cardona 3:53Okay, we’ll put in the show notes. Yeah, okay. All right. So that’s CASTT. And then so so. So you’ve been playing a game. Lara Taylor 4:03We’ve been playing a game kids on brooms by if I had thing out Kayla Devorak 4:10Doug Levandowski. Josué Cardona 4:13On rolling for change. We’ve, Lara Taylor 4:15you’ve talked about kids on brooms and kids on bike. Kayla Devorak 4:18Yep, yep. Josué Cardona 4:19Yep. And they’ve played a campaign on there as well. And Menachem, which you mentioned before, has also been on rolling for change. Lara Taylor 4:29So kids on brooms, I started playing. The group that plays on Fridays had been playing games together since before I joined and then kids on brooms was the first game I played with them. Then we decided to do a bunch of other games and then stream and we streamed a bunch of other games and decided we really wanted to come back to the characters that we played in kids on brooms, and it’s been a very interesting, enlightening experience. I think it’s very interesting that we have a queer show. And yet most of like, what we’re going to talk about is like the queer journey in this relationship that our characters have. But this game is Kayla Devorak 5:16super gay Lara Taylor 5:17it is so gay. It’s so gay and so good. Um, Link Keller 5:23before you start describing your characters, could you give us a little quick synopsis of kids on brooms and how it sort of works and in the play style and everything? Lara Taylor 5:37Um, kids on brooms is like a rules light kind of game compared to d&d or any of that you do have dice. You have stats? Link Keller 5:47Do you use d 20 or D sixes? Lara Taylor 5:50a whole bunch of different die. Mm hmm. Link Keller 5:54I love that an excuse to use all of my clackies. Lara Taylor 5:57Exactly. So like you can have a D 20, in brawn and like, be able to beat things up, right? Or you can have a D 4 in brains and not make some good decisions. There’s each, like, we talked about playbooks. There’s tropes instead of classes or whatever. So in this one, it’s kids on broom, so it’s all I don’t want to say Harry Potter base, but Harry Potter magicians, that kind of stuff. Link Keller 6:30Hogwarts adjacent Kayla Devorak 6:31That’s the best way to explain it, Yeah, Lara Taylor 6:32yeah. Um, so you’ve got like, the firstborn caster. That’s my character. The haughty descendant that’s Kayla’s character. You’ve got unlikely ally. I’m trying to remember some of the Oh, teacher’s pet. There’s a whole bunch of good ones. Yeah. Yeah, a whole bunch of tropes, you answer questions based on that. There’s a lot of relationship building in the game. We asked each other relationship questions at the beginning of the game, each time we play. or not each time you play, each season, except sessions. Kayla Devorak 7:20During the character creation and world building. There are relationship questions that will ask you you roll a die, you roll the D 20. And whatever number you get is the question you ask. And you can you can ask a question about a character relationship that is negative, or positive, or you don’t know the person. Lara Taylor 7:42And then we built the world together in that we have a GM it is a GM game. Dustin is wonderful and created this world for us. But we get to have input too. And then we build in rumors that may be true or not help give him ideas on where to go and what we’re interested in in the world. This particular version, our first time playing, we were students at a high school in Yale, or not in Yale to in Salem, where we were dealing with descendants of the original Salem witches. And then we end up our second time playing, which is our first time streaming. We’re at Yale, Kayla Devorak 8:33we went to yale Lara Taylor 8:34we went to Yale, where the secret societies at Yale are magical societies. So that’s kind of the gist of kids on brooms. It’s a fun game. Kayla Devorak 8:48It’s a lot of fun. Lara Taylor 8:49And I think it’s the first game I’ve played outside of d&d or World of Darkness games. So and since now I’ve played other games but that was interesting Kayla Devorak 9:05she’s expanded her horizons since then, Link Keller 9:09the kids on brooms is a gateway tabletop game Lara Taylor 9:12it is a gateway tabletop game. And then I’ve been along for the ride and played some awesome things. But I think how this applies to why is my insulin pump going off in the middle of talking about things? Um, Josué Cardona 9:33diabetes Podcast coming soon. Lara Taylor 9:34Diabetes Podcast coming soon, especially um turning red is coming out soon. This game has been eye opening for me personally, in my life and journey and being able to heal some past issues in my life that I I don’t know it’s been not just the the relationship trauma that we have been working on in this game with our characters, but like my confidence my ability to see myself in a different light this game has been wonderful. But that’s that’s kind of why I wanted to talk about it. Although it was always idea to bring Kayla on and make us talk about the awkwardness in this game. Josué Cardona 10:34No, I brought Kayla on because it sounds like the best way to understand ourselves might be through the media we care about. And this sounds like a great example for everything you just said. So please tell us tell us tell us about those moments how they started like what what is been so meaningful. Please bear your souls as much as you are comfortable. Link Keller 10:58Yeah, I feel like you should tell us about your characters first Kayla Devorak 11:02Well, it started. It started with Dustin rolling a relationship question for my character. Lexa I believe is how it’s how this started. Because our characters in the initial game we played Lara Taylor 11:18not they didn’t know Riley, my character Riley likes pretty much everybody. And it’s kind of open to Kayla Devorak 11:27who is Riley? Lara Taylor 11:28Yeah. Who is Riley Riley is the firstborn caster. Riley has little experience in the world of magic or used to and was looking kind of timid, wanted input from other people unsure of herself by the end of this first year at Yale that we’ve done is a little more sure of herself. It’s been an interesting growth arc that we’re going to get to but yeah, she kind of a kind of lost in the world. At the beginning when we played basically, we have built in the beginning especially it was a it was totally a Harry Malfoy, Like, vibe. Except less confident. Link Keller 12:29I’m pretty sure I read that fanfiction. I’m so excited. Lara Taylor 12:32You could go watch it right now. Kayla Devorak 12:36You could you could. Lara Taylor 12:40So who’s Lexa then? Kayla Devorak 12:41Oh, ah, who is Lexa? Lexa is a descendant of the Salem witches and is torn between what her family wants, who her family is so Lexa’s rich and full of herself to a degree and guarded but also stuck in this position of having to follow what the family wants because it’s what they think is best for the coven. And they also believe that I mean, they’re basically pure blood-ists and, and torn between that and being her own person. And I had initially kind of started that when we were playing the first time. And then Dustin rolled that dice that asked that question and it was like very, I think it literally was like, it was either like the secret question or the love question. I think it was something like when did you know your feelings for this person had changed? Lara Taylor 14:07I think I think that’s right. And you brought up well, what if? What if she likes Riley? and I was like I’m up for that. Let’s do that. That’s fine. Yeah. Kayla Devorak 14:18So that’s how it started. Lara Taylor 14:22And and now we’re completely obsessed, Kayla Devorak 14:24completely obsessed. But the problem with with that the problem I had with the having feeling Lexa having feelings for Riley and moving a relationship forward was that Lexa did a thing. In initial game we played kids I’m going to call it kids on brooms. Session zero. She did a thing that was not very good. There was Riley there was like no consent involved and it was like a complete one off I had accidentally basically wrote in that a vampire unintentionally and then it was a thing but then it got brought up in our in our yale-capades game. And I was Lara Taylor 15:15and it wasn’t supposed to be some deep thing because the original kids on brooms that we were playing was supposed to be a one shot that turned into like months of playing. And it was like we didn’t even think about it until I got brought into this this season of kids on brooms. Basically, Lexa had another character Calvin take Riley’s blood, unknowingly to see if why she had magic powers because she shouldn’t have had magic powers because, or at least this strong powers because she was a firstborn caster. And then, Calvin lied to Riley about where the scar came from, and said it was the headmaster of the school. That was a vampire. Kayla Devorak 16:18Because Calvin bit Riley in raccoon form Lara Taylor 16:22because he’s a raccoon. Kayla Devorak 16:23raccoon form Lara Taylor 16:24were-raccoon. It gets complicated, but that’s the gist of it Kayla Devorak 16:27that is the gist of it. Lara Taylor 16:29Not only was Riley humiliated by being lied to, but also in lying convincingly to thinking that she was telling the truth to other students to watch out for this headmaster who is a vampire. Kayla Devorak 16:44Who is not a vampire. Lara Taylor 16:46No, who’s not a vampire so we had to figure out a way to address all of this in this like relationship that was budding in the in in our season. And that was awkward conversation in the game. Kayla Devorak 17:12I think I it was painful. Lara Taylor 17:15Well, you had to do most of the talking Kayla Devorak 17:17it was painful. Yeah, it was I and Dustin our GM did a really great job of working Lexa up to the point so Lexa is a legacy a yale legacy because of course and is also a legacy of Skull and Bones. And so Lexa joined Skull and Bones started having divination dreams. And Dustin started putting in into the dreams interactions with Riley that were like Riley saying like you have to tell me the truth at some point and like, leading us ultimately into this place of like something is gonna have to happen here. And it did after like eleven episodes Lara Taylor 18:14eleven episodes Kayla Devorak 18:15We dragged it out a long time. Lara Taylor 18:19It was interesting because you were gone for a couple weeks, and that ended up pushing the story further. Kayla Devorak 18:31Yeah, I think because something to the story. Something Lara Taylor 18:35Riley was so in that piece. We got attacked by not the big bad, but the big bad minions and the minion like steals. It’s called a leech. It steals people’s memories. And right, Riley was worried that Lexa was going to forget about this building relationship about Kayla Devorak 19:05the date, Lara Taylor 19:06the date that they were supposed to have about everything. And so Kayla being gone led me to being like, having Riley a little more frantic, and then Lexa wakes up and we have this big conversation about consent. And, like, holding and being accountable for what she’s done. Because we finally after 11 episodes, they kiss and then it’s like, wait, I think I’m falling in love with you. But I owe you an apology. Kayla Devorak 19:50Yeah. Lara Taylor 19:52And for me, it was interesting. Playing that scene out with you because like everybody that we play with was waiting for that moment. They were waiting for a happy ending. And that was not happening because we wanted to make sure that we didn’t just gloss over this, this horrible thing that happened. Kayla Devorak 20:15And then because Lexa was honest, and Calvin had to be honest, and then it It turned into like, oh, you also took Eliza’s blood. And Calvin and Eliza dating and it was it was a whole, it was a whole thing. Lara Taylor 20:34And it was interesting. Playing that scene out, I was, it would have been different. I think if we hadn’t had this other. If you go and watch the playthrough I’m trying to figure out ways because if, if I have someone that I love, woke up from basically a coma. Like, I would be like, oh, I want to give you a big kiss. Right? Didn’t happen because we were about to have a conversation about consent. So I had to be like, Do you even remember who I am? And that whole thing? Link Keller 21:15If I…

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It’ll Happen To You Jan 30, 2022

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#317: Link and Josué tell Lara about George Romero’s lost-then-remastered The Amusement Park, which is an emotional PSA about elderly abuse. The existential dread sets in, but the end point is finding compassion for those our society mistreats. Transcript Josué Cardona 0:11Welcome to GT radio on the Geek Therapy network here at Geek Therapy We believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves is through the media we care about, my name is Josué Cardona. And I’m joined by my fellow co hosts, Lara Taylor. Lara Taylor 0:22Hey, Josué Cardona 0:24and Link Keller, Link Keller 0:26hello Fellow Olds Josué Cardona 0:30Lara’s the oldest person here remember, never forget. So, Lara Taylor 0:35by a month! Josué Cardona 0:36what are we talking about? Link Keller 0:39Today we are talking about a film that is available on shutter it is called the amusement park. And a little fun history. This was a sort of a PSA done by George Romero in 1973. And it got showed at like, one film festival, and then it got lost. And just a couple of years after George Romero’s death in 2017, like 2018 2019, they found some copies of this film and were able to restore it, and then they put it up on shutter. And so I watched it this last week, and again earlier today. And it was very interesting, and I thought it would make a good topic. Josué Cardona 1:34I agree Link Keller 1:34for us. Josué Cardona 1:35Yeah, no, the history of it is really interesting. Do you know any more that you describe that as a PSA? Did he make it? I mean, it’s obviously a PSA in the in the in like the definition, the dictionary definition, sense of the word because it has an introduction, or it’s telling you, right, he even says at the beginning and at the end, it is bookmarked with, like if you have been moved to action, there are organizations that you can go to, to support older individuals. So Lara Taylor 2:08that sounds like a PSA to me. Link Keller 2:10It was it was produced for the Lutheran Service Society of Western Pennsylvania and the Pitcairn crab Foundation, which is I assume, also in Pennsylvania, but yes, it was intended to be a PSA about elderly abuse. And I imagine that George Romero’s, like, I’m gonna zhuzh this up a little bit, I’m gonna get a little metaphorical I’m gonna get a little loosey goosey with it. And he, well, he Lincoln Maazel, the main character specifically says, we intend for you to feel the problem. To experience it, it is meant to be more of not a like, documentary. It is meant to be something that you feel emotionally when you watch this, less than an hour long film. So I think that it was successful in that. Josué Cardona 3:08Yeah, yeah. Link Keller 3:10It is. It is hosted on shutter, which is a horror streaming service. And it sort of rides the line of being horror. I find parts of it horrifying, but it’s not scary. Right, Lara Taylor 3:24but you can find things horrifying that are not horror. Josué Cardona 3:28I think it definitely falls into horror, though. Because, because it’s not in the sense that it’s scary, but that it’s tapping into fears. Link Keller 3:36Absolutely, yes. Josué Cardona 3:37These are like yeah, it’s it’s absolutely highlighting and exaggerating. Things that are terrifying. And, and you’re kind of bombarded by them. Right? It is like an overwhelming it’s a nightmare. Like, like I was watching. I was like this, this plays out, like a nightmare. In multiple ways Lara Taylor 3:59Is it your Nightmare Josué. Josué Cardona 4:01I mean, I think it’s a lot of people’s nightmare, even when they when it starts again, it has this it has this introduction by the by the actor who plays a main character. And one of the first things that that he says is that this is this is that people live their lives and are successful and hope to get to a point where then they can take it easy when they can retire. And they can reap the benefits of what they’ve of what they’ve created and what they’ve gained, right maybe what they’ve earned, and that there’s even an expectation that you would have, that society would recognize that that you contributed something like even that. You just have a lot of experience. To share, but that instead society turns its back on you and doesn’t help you and things get harder. And and so those two, it’s such a, it’s not at all what you think you’re building toward is kind of what it is kind of how he introduces it. And, and he’s just talking to the camera at the beginning, right? This is before the actual movie begins. Yeah, that’s just and he bookends that at the end, you know, with, with, like, kind of a quick recap. But that idea alone is like being alone not having someone to help you, or just being treated in this this terrible way. It’s, um, I think he made a list of all the worst things that could possibly happen to you, or all the things that you see happen to elderly people or that, you know, like happened to either grandparents or, you know, any complaint you’ve ever heard from someone in a nursing home. And then he kind of he built a park out of it, where all of those things are concession stands and attractions and part of the experience there. Lara Taylor 6:13That is not a park I want to go to Josué Cardona 6:15That’s it sounds like a nightmare. Right? It sounds it sounds like a like a nightmare. So So is it my nightmare? I think? I think I don’t, I hope that my life doesn’t turn out that way. But it, it most likely, a lot of those things will probably play out at some point. Link Keller 6:36Hopefully not all in an afternoon. but Yeah, yes. Josué Cardona 6:43Yeah, I have a lot of thoughts on it. A lot of thoughts on it. But I’m curious how you feel about it. Link Link Keller 6:49I decided I thought it was really cool. I particularly liked in one of the early scenes when Lincoln first goes out into the park and he’s looking around, and he’s seeing people having fun. And he goes, and he sees people lining up for a ride. And they have I wrote them down because it was so funny to me. They had signs and it said requirements for this ride. Individual income over 3500 must not suffer from and then it has a list of health issues, including diabetes, which I wrote down. And then Lara Taylor 7:27this should be on the diabetes podcast, Link Keller 7:29we should put it on the diabetes podcast. must pay cash, no credit accepted. And then it cuts to people being kicked out of line. And they’re like, why can’t we go on this ride? Why can’t we go on this ride and it cuts back to the last sign which says must not fear the unknown, which made me laugh so hard. Lara Taylor 7:48nobody can get on that ride Link Keller 7:50I don’t think it was supposed to be funny but it was very funny to me. Because it’s like, like, the first one is like you have to have enough money to participate. And then it’s like you can’t have any sort of disabilities to participate. And then it’s like, you have to have money now. Like it can’t be theoretical money. And then also like you, you can’t be afraid of the unknown is like, okay, so nobody goes on this ride, then what the heck. That’s what about you? Wait, wait, what was your experience? Josué Cardona 8:23Yeah, well, I mean, in addition to this, I like the idea that it does play out like a nightmare. Um, I think it’s, it was painful to watch it. Like I told a friend yesterday that I was gonna watch this, oh I’ll add it to my list. I need to go back and tell them not to maybe. Because I don’t want to set up the expectations. Link Keller 8:44need a warning in there Josué Cardona 8:45Yeah, yeah. Because it’s, it’s super interesting. And I love that it is, it is effective at doing something. I’ve never seen anything like this in the sense that when we talk about the representation of elderly, the elderly experience in media, it is always minor, right. And then and then I think the most popular versions of it are right, we see all these older actors who are doing romantic comedies at their age, and they touch on the funny aspects of growing old, right? Like they’re making jokes about it in many ways. But but very rarely, like, if you have the tragedy of it, it’s it’s a small part, like you don’t make a whole show out of that. Because that would be incredibly depressing. This is an entire 50 minutes of compressed. They touched everything even even it’s so funny. The thing about fear of the unknown. The way I interpreted it, right, it was like maybe maybe you’re close to death and you’re starting to think about the end, you know, and it’s like no, no, like, yeah, of course a lot of people think about that, but the Lara Taylor 9:55a lot of people think about that when they’re in their 20s and 30s. Josué Cardona 9:58Yeah, but just a suggestion that it’s like either that or that you’re like, not open to new experiences or something like that, right? Like this characterization of all these qualities of being being older. Um, it is. It’s so much in one, just again, one after the other. And so the movie presents, it starts off with this man walking into a white room. Just beat up, right, like, completely beat up and he’s like, sitting down and he looks like he, he looks like he might be dying. He has been shot, like, I mean, he looks like it kind of bandage on, like all this stuff, then this other man comes in dressed exactly the same. He’s like, Hey, do you want to go out there and the guy who’s sitting down, like, there’s, like, he can barely speak. And he says, like, there’s nothing there. Like, there’s like, like, I don’t want to go back out there. There’s nothing there. And, and the guy’s like, okay, and then he goes out into the amusement park. And it’s the same guy I didn’t really like I really didn’t, I don’t know why I didn’t realize that the same guy, Lara Taylor 11:05didn’t realize it was the same guy? Link Keller 11:06the makeup was so good. Josué Cardona 11:08But it’s it’s a loop. Link Keller 11:10It’s a loop. Josué Cardona 11:10Right? So the guy comes out. So he goes out there. And he he tries to basically it’s the story of someone living in society as an elderly person. And then and, and society just kicked the shit out of you. Like he went. Link Keller 11:27literally and figuratively but definitely, literally, Josué Cardona 11:30also literally. And, and it’s everything, it’s so there’s so many moments in it, I’m sure you have a list that you want to go through. But after everything that he suffers, I think and, and when, when he I think that the time when he actually sobs and cries I think he’s also the most sad one. Which is where where he is, because they show they show him being abused, they show him being taken advantage of. They show things just being difficult. But the one where he really cries and sobs is when he’s pretty much ignored. Like, he’s he’s treated like he’s invisible. And oh, it’s just, it’s just terrible. I mean, and there’s so many. They thought of everything, like even, right? They there’s even a moment where he goes to a concession stand and he’s buying groceries. And then he can’t carry them. Like, like, he’s just got like these bags, like he can’t carry get this filmed in the early 70s. So I mean, that that context is important. Here, but not that much has changed in years. Link Keller 12:38Yeah, that was maybe a pretty heartbreaking, Josué Cardona 12:42right? Link Keller 12:42It’s like, oh, this is just as relevant. Josué Cardona 12:46Absolutely absolutely Link Keller 12:48in 2020 Part Three as it is in 1973. Josué Cardona 12:52Oh, and the thing about the feeling, right, like, I want you to feel something, it made me think of the VR experiences that we that we have now that that are presented at festivals as as an empathy exercise for you to see through the eyes of someone else. And even though this movie is not shot in the first person, the way that a lot of it is happening is that the cameras in them is like so close to everything that’s happening, and to Him. So it almost it feels like you’re there. Um, so that that whole idea of like feeling it is very, it’s very strong like you do Lara Taylor 13:34you’re feeling it, Josué Cardona 13:35because you’re in the middle of it. It’s a crowded place. And it’s noisy, always. And so you’re close to him. And it’s like it’s kind of shaky. So for being for the like, I can imagine that now being a VR experience where yougo through all that Lara Taylor 13:51no one I would wanna do Josué Cardona 13:53it would be I mean, it would be incredibly effective. It’s like, oh, Lara Taylor 13:55oh it would it would? Josué Cardona 13:56Yeah, I think I’ve talked of Lara Taylor 13:57there are lots of things we’ve talked about on the show that are incredibly effective, but like, would be really hard to do. Right? Josué Cardona 14:04Yeah, yeah, I’ve talked to it’s been a while since I brought it up. But there’s something like eight years ago where Planned Parenthood made one where it’s this VR narrative, you’re there, you’re seeing a woman go to the abortion clinic, and and you’re going through, you’re seeing all the protesters yelling, you’re in the office with her talking to the doctor, that you go through this entire process. And you don’t actually see it through her eyes until the very, very end where they have like a digital CG experience, but the rest is just live action footage and you’re with her, but you’re close enough that you’re you feel like you’re Lara Taylor 14:43there Josué Cardona 14:43again, you’re feeling it, you’re having that experience with her and this movie feels like that. Because even when he’s far away, it’s again, I think it jumps back and forth. It’s, it’s interesting. It’s a so I think it was extremely effective in that sense. And it’s it’s very effective, again only the fact that it’s sold, would it make it hard to, I think, to share for the purpose with some people for the purpose of showing, like getting that message across. But holy shit would it be, I think it would be super effective with an elderly client or someone who’s thinking about, you know, their older age or even different forms of disability, they, and they will be able to point and be like, I’ve experienced that that has happened to me, or I’ve experienced this. And I’ve experienced that. I’ve experienced all those things. Thankfully, not in one day, but they’re all so. So I think. I think it’s a great piece of media to have in our back pocket to be able to reference in the future. Those are those are my initial thoughts. Lara Taylor 16:00The initial ones? Josué Cardona 16:02Yeah. Yeah, Lara, but I think I think it’s definitely I still I do think it’s effective. And like Link said, it’s, it is super relevant even now. Lara Taylor 16:13There are a lot of things. I think it’s one, it might be one of those things that, as you said several times, I wouldn’t suggest it to someone. But it is helpful. It might be it might be something I don’t know. Like, I have to actually watch it to see if I would suggest it to somebody or not. But the idea of it is like, that’s pretty terrifying to me. That’s probably my nightmare. I have existential dread all the time. Josué Cardona 16:45Watching it during the day. Lara Taylor 16:48Sounds good. Sounds good. I’ll do that. I’ll get my nice little blanket and my warm that my warm cup of hot chocolate not my hot chocolate. Josué Cardona 16:56Yeah. Lara Taylor 17:03You got moments link that you want to talk about? Link Keller 17:06Yeah. So in in the intro, Lincoln is describing the various things that impact old people. And he lists, loneliness, failing health, lack of nutrition, lack of appropriate housing, lack of appropriate health care, and most importantly, a lack of compassion from other people, particularly young people. And each of those is illustrated through some event within the park. I think I tried to think which, which one really got to me, um, Lara Taylor 17:55all of them? Do you want to put them on a dartboard and throw? Like, Link Keller 17:58there were a lo…

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Eternals and Impossible Choices Jan 23, 2022

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#316: Josué, Lara, and Link discuss Eternals: the diverse cast, impossible choices, family dynamics, and argue whether or not Ikaris is a villain. Transcript Josué Cardona 0:11Welcome to GT radio on the Geek Therapy network. here at Geek Therapy We believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves is through the media we care about. My name is Josué Cardona. I’m joined by link Keller. Link Keller 0:20Helloooo, nerds, Josué Cardona 0:22and Lara Taylor. Lara Taylor 0:25Hey, people, Josué Cardona 0:28people, geeks Link Keller 0:30party people Josué Cardona 0:31Alright, so So today we’re gonna talk about the Eternals the movie. Because I’ve never read comics. And so the reason why I want to talk about this, but there’s a few, there’s a few reasons I think it touches did there’s one main idea in it that I won’t really want to talk about, but I think it’s a great movie with. I mean, I enjoyed it. I enjoyed the movie. And it has a lot of pretty fleshed out characters, and they each have very unique abilities and personalities. But the big idea that I wanted to discuss is kind of, you know, central to the film. So if you have not watched the Eternals and you do not want spoilers. Please go away. Come back. Come back later. Lara Taylor 1:24Watch it come back. It’s on Disney plus. Josué Cardona 1:26Yeah, yeah. If you don’t know how you feel about spoilers, go back to our spoiler episode. I forget what, what what number that is. But I think about that episode all the time. Spoilers for the spoiler episode. It’s about research that shows that when stuff is spoiled for you, a lot of people like you actually enjoy it more. It’s almost like there’s a build up. Oh, stuff. I think it’s, yeah, anyway, go check that out that episode. It’s a it’s a it’s it’s got to be like at least 150 episodes ago, it was a while it’s been a few years. It’s been a while. Time. So the Eternals What is it about the movie that I have not stopped thinking about? And this is the way I see it. I’m curious what both of you think, but I feel that there were no villains in the movie. And that everybody there just had, like a purpose that they were trying to fulfill. And there was no good there was no completely good solution. Like in The Avengers, like in end game, right. They, there’s that Tony Stark quote, where he says, You know, I want to make sure that we that we regain everything we lost and don’t lose anything that we’ve gained. Like, he’s like, I want to make sure that across the board. I don’t I don’t want to lose anything. Right. Like every win win win. It was the plan. And that was the the objective. And here in this movie, I feel like the eternals there’s no way. Right like everybody, there’s no way to please everybody is kind of is kind of the the message and the thing that stayed with me the most, and I haven’t stopped thinking about it since I watched the movie a couple weeks ago. Thoughts. Lara, you you disagree? your face your face is strongly disagreeing. Lara Taylor 3:38I disagree. I disagree. Because anytime we talk about villains, we talk about how they there are reasons for their villainy. I think that murdering your friends, your mentor, and lying to everybody and putting up this two-faced, like oh yeah, I should. Like, I’m fine with not being the leader. And you know, oh, no, I’m Ajak is dead. Like Josué Cardona 4:17so you think Ikaris is the villain Lara Taylor 4:19He’s such a liar. He’s a he’s a liar. I don’t know if he’s like, I also feel like Arishem is also a villain because I think that once again, lying to all of them, not let it like if they all knew what they were supposed to be doing. That might be I think my biggest problem is the lying, not the murder. Josué Cardona 4:44Obviously, well Lara Taylor 4:44except for murdering your friends. That’s that’s this backstabber-y Josué Cardona 4:50that does bother you. Lara Taylor 4:52It does bother me. Gotcha, but it’s pretty good. I do think that like, Yes, everyone was put in impossible situations. I understand that like The premise of the movie is billions of lives sacrificed so that more than billion billions of billions more can be brought into the world. I get that. Also, you’re taking away people’s agency and choice, and you are lying and and deceitful. And then there’s some murder. So like, not just like, destroying the whole planet genocide, murder, but like, personal. I’m killing you because I disagree with you murder. I’m luring you out here into a trap murder. Josué Cardona 5:40I’ll disagree. Lara Taylor 5:41That’s villainy. Josué Cardona 5:43I’ll disagree and debate you more as we as we go on. Link, your your thoughts on this. On my interpretation of events, Link Keller 5:54I understand what you’re saying in that even the characters like Ikaris who are serving as antagonists, to our protagonists forward momentum through the story. Even even with the antagonism, he’s still understandable as to why he takes the actions that he takes. It’s, it’s, I think, a good reflection that we see Ikaris, in an effort to uphold the purpose that He has come to understand, he is willing to sacrifice Ajax as a way to maintain his purpose. And then reflecting that later, where Sersi and the rest of the Eternals choose to sacrifice their purpose in order to save the planet. And so there’s like a nice mirroring there, where somebody is still getting killed, somebody is getting sacrificed in order to for this thing to happen. But the difference is your personal mentor, someone you have a many 1000s of years relationship with versus an an unknowable being that is coming into creation, you do not have a relationship with that person. But yeah, I get what you’re saying. I do think that Ikaris is pretty villainous. Just given the lying aspects, like Lara said, is is Lara Taylor 7:27the deceit, Link Keller 7:29the withholding the information? Like he had the opportunity, he had the information and he had the opportunity to decide for himself that for him, it was more important that he maintained the purpose he believes that he had, but he didn’t give the rest of his team that opportunity. And I think that choice pushes it over into villainy. But again, understandable it’s understandable. Like how fucking hard would it be to be like, Look, you guys so big news, um, we’re here basically is like factory farmers. And everybody that we’ve worked so hard to like save and protect and help nurture and grow is about to get killed, eaten. But like, I’ve already decided that that’s worth it. And so, like, I don’t care what you guys think is kinda shitty. But yeah. Josué Cardona 8:25Do you think that Ikaris struggled with that at all? Link Keller 8:30I’m gonna say he struggled with it more, once The woman he was he’s in love with was like, Hey, bro, not cool. Lara Taylor 8:40he was pretty cold when it was Ajak. Link Keller 8:43Yeah, Lara Taylor 8:43for a bit. Link Keller 8:44Yeah, I think I think that honestly adds some depth to his character that in the moment with him and Ajax, he was certain and he was sure that he was making the right choice for him. And then when faced with the rest of his team, and they’re pretty unanimous, like rejection of his choice, and him having to be like, Oh, I’m less sure it was a good choice now. Which then ending with a solar suicide? WHAT Lara Taylor 9:12Oh, seen the memes like men will literally fly into the sun to avoid therapy. Link Keller 9:18I sent it to you guys just I don’t know, probably 15 minutes before we got on this call but a tik tok of somebody who was like, Oh, actually, did you know that Ikaris can fly this fast? And it’s this far to the sun so it would actually take him 12 years to fly into the sun. I’m like, Yeah, I love that. what!! Josué Cardona 9:39So we saw into the future, so but yeah, Link Keller 9:4212 years later, Ikaris is like uhh into the sun. Lara Taylor 9:47Well, damn, he would have seen Arishem coming to take everybody away. And he could turn around and save them but instead he flew into the sun. He Link Keller 9:58but he couldn’t have turned around. round and say that he’s six years there. I’m already a year out you guys nooo. that’s so funny. Josué Cardona 10:12So Did I did I bring this movie up during our Encanto recording last time? Lara Taylor 10:18I don’t know if you brought it up during the recording, but it was after you were like, I have an idea for next week. Josué Cardona 10:25And so the similarity that I see between them right and my thing with Encanto, is it the encanto the enchantment is just a huge lie. Right? And then the family different people in the family assume different or work deal with it differently. Right. And some of them stay quiet some of them try to uphold the lie as much as possible. But there’s also different ways of seeing it like I understand how some people might disagree with me that the enchantment is just an illusion you know, the encanto an enchantment an illusion and a lie. I, I see a lot of similarities with with this movie. Or at least I keep seeing, like I saw this theme come up and between both of them were like I don’t know. Sure. Ikaris I get I still don’t see him as a villain. And I feel like he was way more tortured even with the with the killing of Ajak then, like, I don’t I don’t think he saw any other way. Right. Like there’s there’s one piece of this where which is, I mean, there they’re all literally robots that have been programmed to do a particular thing. Lara Taylor 11:42And he he’s basically the only one that I mean sprite Yes. But sprite also just wanted to do it because she’s in love with him. Link Keller 11:53I’m sprite I want people to take me seriously and treat me like an adult; does the most preteen bullshit ever. Lara Taylor 12:00But if they’re all robots that are basically programmed, and he’s the only one that can’t fight against it. Josué Cardona 12:08Well, I mean, they all have a choice, right? Like their programming is. It’s mostly like the input, right? It’s like, Yo, you have this much information to then start basing your decisions on. We used the idea of purpose before, right, like, so what is my role? What am I doing here? And then there’s the once everybody knows the truth, that that is the moment where it’s probably like, my favorite part of the movie, where you see how everybody, just like all of us, the way we that we see it, right, our belief about about, about everything, not not just what’s happening, what’s going to happen, our role in it is so different. So all of them make slightly different choices. And you’re right, there’s different motivation. But those that believe that it’s like a greater good thing, right? Because, like, without, without the celestials, there’s no people, right? So if we kill a celestial, how many earths will never come to be? Right. And then why Lara Taylor 13:21is it gotta be in the only popular line? No, because they need the people to grow it. Josué Cardona 13:26But yeah, like they explain all that right. Again, it sets up this this impossible situation, right. So but everybody chooses aside, except, except, what’s his name? Lara Taylor 13:38Kingo. Josué Cardona 13:39Right, Kingo’s, he’s like, I’m torn. I, he sees it both ways Lara Taylor 13:45he’s, he actually was well, he sees it. No, he definitely he disagrees he wants to go with with Ikaris. But then he’s like, I’m not gonna fight family. I’m gonna stay out of it. Josué Cardona 13:56you’re Right. Lara Taylor 13:57And he’s like, Fuck the people that I have been doing that I have loved and taken, like, done all these movies with his friend is like, I’m sorry that Josué Cardona 14:08it’s not just like the people though. Because it’s he’s balancing the things out. Right? And he he’s, he’s, he decides right to him the celestial is more important. Right? You’re right. And that Lara Taylor 14:22but his relationship with his friends and his family is more important than that Josué Cardona 14:26he’s not willing at he’s not willing to do that for this right? So that that’s where he falls right so so like his is really interesting because of that. And that’s why I like all of these characters who have like lived for 1000s of years on earth they have a relationship with with the planet and the people and different in different ways. Right because Druig from the very beginning that he didn’t want he was trying to protect people. But then he his power, right, the way that he protected people Lara Taylor 14:58like ultimate taking away of agency Josué Cardona 15:01completely right. It was like, I will control them, I will remove their agency completely as a way to save them. In his case, like that’s the power that he has. That’s the it’s not his only option. It’s Link Keller 15:15it’s the tool that he has available to him Josué Cardona 15:17the tool that he has available to him yup. Lara Taylor 15:18And then everything looks like a nail, If all you’ve got the hammer. Josué Cardona 15:21That’s right. Yeah. Yeah. So that’s his perspective, right? It’s like, No, I’m, I’m going to save these people. And I don’t care what you think. And he sacrificed his relationship with his family in order to save these people. And it’s like, those types of things, right, like these impossible situations that each of them are placed in. And then seeing those things change also over time, right? Because they all they all show up under the same pretense under the same lies. Right. And then, as they find out what’s going on, they the choices that they make, I think, I loved it so much because of that, and I felt I felt for a lot of the character’s, like having to be in that situation. Um, again, just super hard choices. And of course, I mean, I think I think that’s applicable to I don’t know, the stuff about about Ikaris, when I when I Link when you were talking about Ikaris’s situation, it’s like, how many times have we talked about parents? Right? Like, they make a decision, they think that they’re doing what’s best for you, right? And like, they’re, they’re causing suffering, they’re causing trauma, they’re causing pain, but like, they’re, they’re running under their programming? Or do they think that they’re doing what’s best? Or do they think that the alternative is worse? And so the types of decisions that we make, and to see this on a, like, on this scale, right, and having so many different versions of it, and across time, I can imagine this being extremely relatable to so many different situations and, and how, how we react and act when it comes to, to having to make a choice, and how we use the information that we have available at the time and how sometimes that changes over time, as well. So, that keeps keeps coming up over and over again. So in in that sense, you still do you still link Do you still see Ikaris like villainous? We’re not really defining like villain, right, but like Link Keller 17:52Yes. Josué Cardona 17:53Do you still stand by it by villainous, but but a villain or just just villainous, villainous traits? Yeah, Lara Taylor 18:01you wouldn’t, you wouldn’t diagnose him with villain personality disorder. Link Keller 18:06No I don’t think He is the villain of the movie. Lara Taylor 18:10No, Link Keller 18:10he, like, like I said, is he it’s more in antagonist than villain. Right? It’s more that the actions he’s taking are roadblocks. Josué Cardona 18:23Yeah. Link Keller 18:24More than anything else. But again, it’s like it’s like the way that they treat Sprite as being like, the young one, right is Lara Taylor 18:38when they’re just, she’s just as old as everyone, Link Keller 18:41they’re all on the same team. They all have, you know, the same level of experience. They are all very powerful. Lara Taylor 18:52all millenia old Link Keller 18:53And Ikaris taking this sort of stance of like, he didn’t he didn’t become the leader when he when Ajax died, but in his like rationalization, he is very much putting himself in a position of power over the others. An…

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Let’s Talk About Bruno Jan 16, 2022

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#315: The Crew gushes about Encanto, touching on family systems, perfectionism, and growth. Transcript Josué Cardona 0:11Welcome to GT radio on the Geek Therapy network here at Geek Therapy. We believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves through the media we care about, my name is Josué Cardona. And I’m joined by Lara Taylor. Lara Taylor 0:22Hey. Josué Cardona 0:23And Link Keller. Link Keller 0:24Hello. Josué Cardona 0:27Link. I feel like if we don’t talk about Encanto you are going to burst Link Keller 0:32I’m gonna lose it. We gotta talk about Encanto. Josué Cardona 0:39Why? Why do you want to talk about this movie? Link Keller 0:41I am obsessed. It’s showed up on my for you page on tik tok with a bunch of people talking about how much they loved it and things that they noticed in the background. And I was like, this is interesting and cute. And this song we don’t talk about Bruno. This is fun. I’m enjoying this. I watched the movie. I loved it. So I watched it three more times. Yeah, so I just I think Encanto is a perfect movie for talking Geek Therapy stuff. We’re gonna get into spoilers cuz we got to talk about Bruno. Josué Cardona 1:24We do, Lara Taylor 1:25and Luisa and Isabella, and Mirabel and all of them. Link Keller 1:31Everybody, yes. Josué Cardona 1:32Yeah, yes. Yeah. Not, it’s a hell of a movie. Lots to talk about. To talk about. Yeah, I mean, there’s just so many themes. I’ve been, I’ve been thinking a lot about movies like this, or I guess what movies, it’s not too hard for, like shows that just cover so many different topics. It’s like, if we do one library entry for this thing, like, how long is that thing? How helpful is it if we list 27 Different themes, and Lara Taylor 2:04it’ll be helpful because someone will search for one of those themes and be like, Oh, I can hit that. And that and that. And that. Josué Cardona 2:13That’s, that’s, that’s the plan. That’s the idea. Yeah. So where do you want to start? Link, where do you where do you want to start? Link Keller 2:22I, let’s, let’s start more fun and loosey goosey, and then we’ll get into the grittier stuff. So Lara Taylor 2:30like the movie! Link Keller 2:31just like the movie, wait, what? Did you guys have a favorite song, let’s start there. My favorite song is surface pressure, which is Luisa’s song, and it is a song about feeling the need to be strong to do anything that your family requires of you anything that your community needs of you. And that is what gives you value as a person, and how awful that can feel. Where if if you’re not hitting 100% of what everybody is asking of you, then you are worthless, worth less. And there is a particular line in the song where she says, Oh, God, I have it written down. I feel worthless if I can’t be of service. And that I feel that so deeply? Josué Cardona 3:30drip drip of pressure? Yes. Yeah, he’s Lara Taylor 3:33we’re watching this movie at the driving and I just yelled out that’s me. In the middle of the song. Link Keller 3:41it me. Yes, absolutely. Josué Cardona 3:45Yeah. Lara, do you have a favorite song? Lara Taylor 3:48That was that was going to be my favorite song. It’s interesting, because when I went into go see them after we’d watch the movie, I was like, I liked all the songs but nothing really stuck in my head at the end, like you know how Moana had. We’re all go and then frozen had of course the I’m not even gonna name off the two that everybody sings. But, um, nothing really stuck in my head. And then after it hit Disney plus, everybody started singing. We don’t talk about Bruno. And I was like, Yep, okay, that’s the one that is the one to catch. If it’s not going to be surface pressure is going to be we don’t talk about Bruno like I was on the gondola. We have the at our zoo. There’s like a gondola that brings you up to the top of the hill. And we could hear people singing as they were passing us in the window. Like, we don’t talk about Bruno. It was great. Link Keller 4:41that’s so cute. Lara Taylor 4:43And then it got stuck in my head. So yeah, we don’t talk about bruno. Link Keller 4:47Yeah, that one is definitely an ear worm. And, and on the first listen, you’re like this is fun. And then when you go back and you listen again, there are so many little, so many little details in there that you don’t pick up on Lara Taylor 5:00And they start singing really quickly, like, I’m gonna need to put on captions to, like get more look at the lyrics Link Keller 5:06to guess why I always have captions on because I got to see those lyrics. Josué Cardona 5:12It’s like, oh, Dolores told us that song that she like knew all along my favorite is Dos Oruguitas. For sure Lara Taylor 5:23that one’s been stuck in my head today too, and makes me cry. Link Keller 5:27So sweet. Josué Cardona 5:29I’ve listened to that song. Many, many, many, many times Link Keller 5:33do you listen to the Spanish version or the English version? Josué Cardona 5:36I started listening to the English version in preparation for podcasting about about it. But mostly in Spanish. And a big reason is because of what you just said about the details. I, I’ve started thinking, I mean, I’ve started studying this movie. This movie has layers and the symbolism is is surprising to me. And I feel like I’ve never watched a Disney movie that was like this, where I could like keep going back and finding all these different pieces to it. Like, by my third viewing, it wasn’t the same movie that I watched the first time because I realized that I connected all these different it’s almost like an M Night Shyamalan movie. Like you don’t know what you know, and at the end you’re like what? Lara Taylor 6:30They’ve been telling us this all along. Yeah, and it’s not as obvious as frozen two’s like the first song tells you the end of the movie. Josué Cardona 6:38Yeah, well, yeah, well, it’s yeah, it’s funny Lara Taylor 6:41like explicitly Josué Cardona 6:42Yeah, yeah. Cuz Dos Oruguitas I feel that way now. Like, the more I listened to it, it wasn’t until a third time that I watched the movie that I was like, I saw it completely differently. But yeah, Dos Oruguitas is my favorite. For sure. Link Keller 6:55I Love. I love the detail in the intro song where Mirabel is introducing the family when she introduces abuela of well as part is in tune with the Dos Oruguitas song, which I did not pick up on the first time. The second time was like, oh, oh, that’s that’s her song. That’s her song. It’s her part in the song is that’s beautiful. Josué Cardona 7:22Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. That’s my that’s my favorite. But but the whole all of the songs were really good. Like, I think, yeah, I like it. Do like some even, like, even like, Lion King was my favorite Disney movie for a very long time. And like, I never really liked the the scar song. What’s the? Lara Taylor 7:45be prepared Josué Cardona 7:46Be prepared, like, like, every time be prepared to jump. I was like, no, like, I don’t. I don’t love be prepared. But this here’s like, every I think I think every like every time a song comes on, I’m, I’m happy that the song is on. Yeah. Lara Taylor 8:03And someone I was talking to this week mentioned that like, we don’t talk about Bruno is on the radio, which hasn’t happened other than like the Demi Lovato version of Let It Go. Disney songs the movie The verse movie versions haven’t been just on the radio. Josué Cardona 8:22Oh, you mean Oh, you mean like Lara Taylor 8:26on radio station you turn on in the car? Josué Cardona 8:28like the actual version? Link Keller 8:30that’s wild Lara Taylor 8:31Yeah, yeah, the song from the movie not like stuff that plays during the credits that’s done by popular singers. The actual version from the movie is on the radio. Wow, cool. Josué Cardona 8:42Wow. Link Keller 8:43Yeah, I had heard I don’t think a couple of the songs were hitting Top Billboard whatever numbers but I assumed that was just from like, Spotify plays and stuff like Josué Cardona 8:53yeah, people are requesting them Link Keller 8:55that’s so cool. Josué Cardona 8:56Yeah, yeah. Link Keller 8:57I can’t imagine being in the car and having we don’t talk about Bruno Come on, I would lose my mind I shouldn’t be driving. Lara Taylor 9:06I can picture your driving. And then like, what is going on and Link Keller 9:12down the windows and making like prolonged eye contact with other drivers trying to get that like sing back with me? You do the Felix part. I’ll be Pepa Come on. Josué Cardona 9:22It’s kind of weird. If you have no idea where that’s coming from if you were just talking about like getting fat and fish dying and losing your hair like what’s it what’s going on? Lara Taylor 9:34My friend did a video the the Tik tok filter that flashes when you blink it switches between male and female. And she nailed the entire we don’t talk about bruno song doing that. It was impressive. I don’t know how many takes it took her. Link Keller 9:52That is impressive. Josué Cardona 9:54That’s pretty cool. Okay, yeah, music. Very good. Link Keller 9:57Very good. Animation, beautiful. every character it looks fantastic I the scene in the beginning where Antonio is hiding under the bed because he’s nervous and Mirabel goes to comfort him and seeing the two of them under the bed like I cried. They were so, so cute. Lara Taylor 10:21She was so perfect with him. Link Keller 10:23Oh, yes. She’s She’s I love Mirabel. She’s very sweet. Lara Taylor 10:31Yeah, and really good at holding off all those kids in there questions. Link Keller 10:37and That’s why children don’t have coffee. Josué Cardona 10:40her Powers denial. Well, Lara Taylor 10:42it’s interesting. I saw something because I watched Encanto again last night. And I’ve been looking at things and sending articles to you guys. And my Facebook feed is now full of like Screen Rant articles and like Easter egg things about Encanto and one thing that popped up earlier today was Mirabel’s dress, and how all their powers are on the dress. And then it’s just like Mirabel’s face, like her glasses and curly hair on that on the dress. And so she had her dress from the beginning tells you she does not have powers. Josué Cardona 11:20I disagree with that. Link Keller 11:21Her power is wearing really sick specs. Lara Taylor 11:25Yes. Yeah. We can. We can we can argue. Josué Cardona 11:29But I can I can I believe I can refute that statement. I’m confident. Lara Taylor 11:36Absolutely. Yes. Josué Cardona 11:38Across the board. Yeah, because actually, there are butterflies on her on her. Lara Taylor 11:44You’re right, you’re right. Link Keller 11:47And that’s actually that was one of the details I didn’t notice like all of the different types of like what is embroidered on her shirt and dress. But I did notice that there were different types of like different stitches of embroidery, which I thought was such a cool detail. Like the butterfly that’s on her shoulder. The wings are like loops, so they have like a 3d effect. It’s beautiful. I love that like that’s stuff that you can do with real embroidery on clothing. And we don’t get to see that very often. So is really cool to see it represented. Josué Cardona 12:20Yeah. Lara Taylor 12:21And Dolores His clothes are, like stitched with sound waves. That’s really cool. Link Keller 12:27Pepa’s outfit has sun beams and raindrops and lightning bolts on it and she wears the big Sun earrings. Josué Cardona 12:34Yep, yep. Yeah, that’s attention to detail is it’s almost infuriating. it’s so good. it’s really good. Yes. All right. So so so where do you want to start? Link Keller 12:49Um, let’s let’s talk about these delicious characters. I guess actually, let’s do a brief plot outline for anybody who hasn’t seen it. Family Madrigal. They live in the Encanto which is this. Valley, I guess would be a way to describe it, where this small community lives and the family madrigal lives in Casita, their house, which is magical, and has a personality of its own, which I love when Disney movies do Non sentient characters. Another example would be the the ocean in Moana where it’s like it has character it exists within the world and it affects plot and has character and I love that. Anyways, the family madrigal, they all have magical powers. Except for sweet, Mirabel. And she, I don’t know, she, she, she believes that the rest of the family also believes that about her. And they treat her differently because of that, not necessarily badly, but they treat her differently. And so do other people in the community. And so something is happening with house and their family is in trouble and Mirabel decides that even though she doesn’t have powers, this is what she needs to do. She needs to protect and save her family goes on a little adventure to do that. And discovers truths about her family that really contextualize the way that they treat each other and the way that they treat her. It’s, it’s great. The family characters are fantastic. Each of them is is so unique. And even when they only have a couple of lines, they feel like real 3d fully realized characters these feel like real people. You could get to know and share a meal with fight with real people. And I love that. I, I spent I spent a little while. And I still haven’t really settled on it, but trying to figure out the birth order of the cousins. Because the so there’s Abuela, grandma, and then she has triplets. Yep. And then one of those triples is Bruno who’s not included in the family at the beginning of the movie, and then two daughters. And then each of those two daughters have three kids. So there are six cousins. And because the, because the, the triplets are all the same birth order. I got hung up on trying to figure out what’s the birth order of the cousins. Honestly, it’s not really meaningful in any way. But Josué Cardona 16:00on pepa’s side it’s, it’s it’s obvious, I think, well, we say Lara Taylor 16:05isabela’s the oldest because they’re trying to marry her off. Link Keller 16:08I think Isabella is the oldest oldest but I can’t tell if then it goes Luisa or then it goes Dolores Lara Taylor 16:18redstuff definitely. Link Keller 16:23I don’t know that it necessarily matters. But I was like I gotta know I gotta know. Josué Cardona 16:27I was curious. Link Keller 16:28Because Mirabel is Is the baby in in her family. But Antonio is the baby he’s the youngest. And so he definitely gets treated more as the baby by everybody. But she gets treated as the baby most especially by her sisters. base base based on the one neighbor guy telling her like oh, the the last gift party was yours. That means that Camilo is also older than her. So it’s again, it doesn’t really matter I just kept just kept thinking about it. I just wanted to know. Lara Taylor 17:06Also, the only thing you can’t figure out is Luisa and Dolores Link Keller 17:10hmm, yeah. And Camilo, right he he could he could be older than Luisa I don’t think so. But he could be I think I think they’re probably sandwich together but anyways, a fun detail. Is the surface pressure Luisa song or she’s singing about that? I’m watching people on on social media. Argue about like, oh, yeah, that’s like, I’m the oldest sibling and that’s how I feel. And then people being like, well, I’m the youngest sibling and that’s how I feel it’s like she’s the middle she’s the middle sibling which is a very on brand for middle siblings Yeah, cracks me up I really like I I think I like Luisa is excluding main character, Mirabel? I think Luisa is my favorite of the cousins. I really like her arc of like, actually opening up about feeling all this pressure to be strong and to do everything that is asked of her, and how it’s like freaking her the fuck out. And she’s like, maybe if I wasn’t like, constantly trying so hard, like I could have like a moment of relaxation, a moment of joy. Like wouldn’t that be unimaginable for me? Haha, Lara Taylor 18:36I’m fine, but I’m fine. Link Kelle…

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