Grace Enough Podcast

Latest Episodes:

58: Rachel Pieh Jones | Life At The Crossroads of Faith And Culture Mar 10, 2020

Show notes

Rachel and I chat about what led them to Africa, her acculturation process, living as a minority and how that has increased her empathy for people who believe differently, what she has gleaned from the practices of her Muslim friends, and her book Stronger Than Death.

3:45 Will you share a little of your faith journey with us? When did you come to know Jesus as Savior?

"The older you get the more people you love. The more people you love the more pain there is in the world. Watching God meet me in those trials and meet my friends in their trials my faith has become more of a sense of being with God, with Jesus and less some kind of conviction of right theology or right dogma."

6:28You have lived in the horn of Africa for 17 years. What led you there?

As newlyweds, she and her husband lived in an apartment complex in Minnesota where most of their neighbors were Somalians.

They moved to Somaliland in 2003 with 2.5 year old twins for her husband to teach at the university.

9:45 To give our listeners a visual share a little about Djibouti....the religion, the landscape, the food, etc.

Majority population of Djibouti is Somali
Majority religion is Muslim
Djibouti is a desert country on the water
Djibouti is a former French colony
Djibouti is a stable place surrounded by war and challenges
The Red Sea and Gulf of Aden meet, so the underwater life is beautiful.
Djibouti has the hottest climate in the world

13:12 You are a Christian and so often we hear the stories of Christians moving to Africa as missionaries, but for you and your husband it was to teach at a University. In one of the articles you wrote, you share about an early friendship you developed with Amaal, a Muslim woman, which helped you learn much about the culture and religion. Share with us a little about the acculturation process and how Muslim's and other religions interact peacefully in Djibouti.

"I've gone through different thought processes of how I think about the character of God and the words we use to describe God or how I practice prayer. I haven't really adopted any Muslim practices, but I have been challenged by them. For example, in prayer...There's a call to prayer 5 times a day. There's mosques all over, so I can hear from work. I can hear it from my house. The call to prayer is basically, come to prayer. In the morning, the man singing it will say, 'Prayer is better than sleep. God is great. Come to prayer.' I can use that to call my own self to pray, to remember God even if I'm not following the exact same motions as a Muslim would...I can use the call to prayer to stimulate my own spiritual life."

SHOW NOTES continued

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57: Kristen Hatton | Redemptive Parenting Mar 03, 2020

Show notes

Kristen and I chat about redemptive parenting. What is it? How it is different from moralistic and behavior modification parenting? We also chat about allowing your kids to see your sin nature and the value of apologizing to your children.

Redemptive Parenting Podcast

3:30 Will you share a little of your faith journey with us? When did you come to know Jesus as Savior?

"The way I see growth now is totally different than what I might have said before. Growth is NOT sinning less and less and getting better and better and doing all the right things, as I might have thought in the past. It is more about seeing our sin rightly....Seeing our sin is a good thing, because it drives us to know more of our need for a Savior."

6:57 What is redemptive parenting?

"Redemption is a slave trade term. So when a redemption price was paid a slave was set free, which is exactly what Jesus did for us. He perfectly obeyed all that God required and then gave up His life in our place giving up His righteous record. So, He paid the price for what our disobedience and sin deserved."

Mark 10:45

Romans 3:24

"We were set free, but not without a price. It was God's grace to us."

"A definition [of grace] I really like is God's goodness to the guilty."

"Seeking to live redemptively, or redemptive parenting, I see it as seeking to give grace as we abide in His grace."

SHOW NOTES continued

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56: Khristi Adams | Parable of The Brown Girl Feb 25, 2020

Show notes

Khristi and I chat about what led to the writing of Parable of The Brown Girl, providing a safe space for young girls of color to talk about their experiences, common struggles girls of color face and God’s truth that speaks to those struggles.

6:31 Will you share a little of your faith journey with us? When did you come to know Jesus as Savior? 11:20 You are passionate about providing young women and girls of color with safe and supportive spaces to help them grow and thrive. Will you share a little of what growing up as a girl of color is like and why it is vital to have safe and supportive spaces to help them thrive?

“It’s really important for…girls of color that are growing up in spaces, whether they’re in spaces where people look like them or particularly the ones that are growing up around people that don’t necessarily look like them to know that they’re not blending…Sometimes, that whole we’re all one in Christ…can make it seem like we’re all, sort of, this big melting pot….They’re unique and important to the body of Christ. They’re a part of, what I mention in the book, the Imago Dei, the image of God.”

“We can’t comprehend the uniqueness and multi-facetedness of God. Because of that, we put our own limitations on God, as far as what we perceive God to be.”

“If we approached Father, Son, and Holy Spirit the way we do diversity, then we would think we [Christians] were polytheistic. We would be worshipping three gods. Yet, we can easily comprehend worshipping one God with three distinct persons, yet we don’t understand the diversity of the human body.”

16:55 Let’s talk about your book Parable of The Brown Girl. What led to the writing of this book? 20:14 Each chapter of the book covers common struggles women of color face. Struggles like being viewed as angry, not having a voice, being insecure. What has been the response of young women, as they have read and discussed the book?

First Reaction of Parable of The Brown Girl Video

Chapter Overview Videos

“She said, ‘I never really felt heard and understood. I felt like you heard me and wrote down what I felt.’….She said, ‘I even got the God part.’….That was the aha moment for me. This is what it’s all about moments….My prayer was always that people, regardless of what the topic is, they can see Christ in it.”

25:32 Not only do you share testimonies of young women of color in each chapter, you follow each story with God’s truth and what He has to say about our voice, our security, our identity and so on. Will you share a few of the truths you shared in the book?

Chapter 1: The girl asked, “Why did God make me a warrior, when I am really just weak?”

“The truth that came from that, the spiritual truth, was about strength and weakness and how God, when we’re weak carries our strength. He is our strength, but also that God makes room for our weakness.”

SHOW NOTES cont.

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54: Nick Stumbo | Discovering Freedom From Pornography Feb 11, 2020

Show notes

Nick and I chat about his journey of discovering freedom from pornography, dealing with negative sexual history, normalizing the conversation in our churches and homes, behaviors vs. core beliefs, and how Pure Desire ministrieshelps people find freedom from sexual addiction.

Pure Desire Ministry

4:20 As we begin, will you share with our listener's a little of your story. When did you come to know Jesus? How did you end up working at Pure Desire?

"My little brain responded to it the way God has designed our brain to react to that, which is a sense of curiosity, intrigue, drawing, even maybe to level a bonding to what I'm seeing. I'm wanting to see more and yet, at the same time, this repulsion of this is wrong. I can't tell my mom and dad. I don't know what I am doing...Sex came into my life in a way that was both secretive and shameful."

"No one really knew what freedom and hope and lasting transformation looked like, so you go away thinking, 'Okay, this time I am going to try really hard not to go back there,' but because nothing on the inside has really changed it comes back."

"I remember her saying, 'It's not that I hate you, but I hate the way this makes me feel and because I don't know if it is ever going to change...I don't know if I can stay'....Because of that moment of real pain, by God's grace, He used that to direct us into Pure Desire Ministries, where we went through a year of being in groups, both for myself as the one who struggled and for her as the betrayed spouse. And also a year of counseling, that was the first time in my life I sat down with someone who knew the Bible and also understood the human brain and addiction and how all of that didn't have to be contradictory, but it all fit together."

"This was never our plan, but it became, by far, the best discipleship program we ever had"

Setting Us Freeby Nick Stumbo

"It does feel like people are making a moral choice, and they are. I don't want to in any suggest that because we understand the addictive nature of it, because we start to see what happens in the brain, that doesn't in any way excuse us from responsibility, that doesn't mean we can blame it on someone else...But it's trying to help believers see that there's more going on than just try harder and believe more."

"What happens in the church is we see someone's behaviors and we say, 'Stop that! Don't do that anymore! Read your Bible and pray and don't make that decision.' But if we don't help them see the thoughts and feelings that are driving it and even deeper, the core beliefs that in our family of origin or trauma that we've gone through or places we've been wounded...."

SHOW NOTES continued --------------------------------------------------- Pure Desire Ministry

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53: Beth & Jeff McCord | Enneagram & Relationships Feb 04, 2020

Show notes

Beth and Jeff chat about how the enneagram became a useful tool in their marriage, concerns a Christian may have about using the enneagram, how to encourage your spouse to use the enneagram, and how we can use it to become our healthiest self vs. as an excuse for behavior.

EP. 16 with Beth McCord | Enneagram Coach From A Biblical Perspective

4:15 For those who may not know, give a little back story on how and why you began using the enneagram as a tool in your marriage.

"Rather than our character defects getting in the way of our relationship they actually became an opportunity to connect with one another."

7:36 The popularity of the enneagram has skyrocketed in recent years and with that has come critique, particularly in the Christian world. Will you take a moment and address some concerns of the believer related to enneagram origins, proper use of the enneagram, etc.?

"For Beth and I, the enneagram is a helpful tool, but we believe that it's the gospel that's the power of God unto salvation. It's the gospel that brings transformation. The way in which we teach it is we have either removed, replaced, or redefined anything that doesn't align with a Biblical worldview."

Jeff speaks about "plundering the Egyptians."

"The way the enneagram is taught today is radically different than the way they created it. Think of it less like Joseph Smith's, who founded Mormonism, who spoke to the angel Moroni and created an authoritative text. Think of it more like a professor who had a theory whose student's developed the theory more. It's not something that's authoritative, because you can teach it from whatever world view you bring to it."

"The great thing about the enneagram is it's just clarifying why we think, feel, and behave in particular ways. It's like an x-ray. It shows what is broken, but it can't fix it. That's where the gospel comes in. When I know that my heart is moving in a direction that is not Christ-like I want to come under the submission of Christ and the Holy Spirit and allow Him to transform that negative part of my thought processes and personality traits."

12:22 In the fall, you released the book Becoming Us, which focuses on using the enneagram to create a thriving gospel-centered marriage. Will you share a few ways the enneagram can help a marriage thrive?

"It's almost like you have a new set of lenses, a new set of glasses, to be able to see yourself and your spouse. Often times, we have this way of interpreting our relationships, that it's either they're doing something that is intentionally hurtful to me or there is a character defect in me that I can't seem to overcome...It's either their fault or my fault. What the enneagram is helping us understand is that we carry a tremendous burden inside to try and make life work apart from the cross. The enneagram gives us this new understanding that I bring a great gift to my relationship and I bring a particular bent or burden to my relationship."

18:51 I asked my listeners to submit questions they would like the two of you to answer. My friend Heather is working through Becoming Us in her community group. She asked, "How do you get your husband on board?"

SHOW NOTES continued

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52: Jonathan Gibson | Proclaiming God is Good After Infant Loss Jan 28, 2020

Show notes

Jonny and I chat about the loss of his daughter Leila, the questions his son asked about his sister, how that led to the writing of "The Moon Is Always Round" and the goodness of God.

4:55 Will you share your faith journey with us? How did you come to know Jesus?

Raised as a missionary kid with Mission Aviation Fellowshipin East Africa

"Some people who come from outside Christian homes, when they're converted it is a bit like a hurricane comes into their life. The Spirit is like the wind, it blows where it pleases. But I think in Christian homes it is still the same Spirit, the same wind that comes in and converts people, but it's more like a gentle breeze. In my case, it was a gentle breeze that blew into my life and re-generated me. The Spirit of God re-generated me and gave me faith in Christ."

7:19 Your children's book The Moon is Always Roundcame to my attention at the perfect time...Tell us, when and why did you began talking to your son about the moon?

Catechism:

Q: What shape is the moon tonight?

A: Crescent, Gibbous, etc.

Q: What shape is the moon always?

A: The moon is always around.

Q: What does that mean?

A: It means God is always good.

"It began as a childlike fascination with the moon that led to that connection with the moon."

8:31 Eventually your wife became pregnant with your second child, a baby girl. Will you share that journey with us?

"That's really the tragedy [stillbirth of their daughter, Leila] that came into our life as a sudden surprise that we didn't see coming. All of a sudden we entered a world of pain and sorrow that we had only ever heard of and imagined, but here we were in the midst of it trying to navigate ourselves through it."

10:02I share about how I learned about The Moon Is Always Round and the story of my dear friend Andie and her son Ryker James, who was stillborn October 10, 2019.

SHOW NOTES continued

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50: Rebecca Bender | Freedom From Human Trafficking Jan 14, 2020

Show notes

Rebecca and I chat about the 6 years she spent being sex trafficking in Vegas, her new book In Pursuit of Love, the various forms exploitation and trafficking can take on, the increased risk for those living in vulnerable situations, the necessity of trauma informed care, God's consistent long term pursuit of her heart, and some red flags of human trafficking.

5:03 Rebecca'sstory is one of radical transformation and is shared in great detail in her new book In Pursuit of Love. She takes us back and shares her story of being trafficked as a teenage girl?

"I would have never been put in an at-risk youth category."

"I met a guy who had all the answers to all my problems as a young, 18 year old, single mom...There are some real vulnerabilities in that [single, teen mom]."

"I think there is a lot to say about young girls, especially 18-24, who are raised in a culture where sex sells...."

Group Think: the practice of thinking or making decisions as a group in a way that discourages creativity or individual responsibility.

"According to FBI, less than 5% of trafficking victims in America are kidnapped."

"In real life it [human trafficking] doesn't happen quickly. It's a gradual expansion. There's no A to Z. It is A to B. The next month B to C. The next month C to D."

Turn out is slang for trafficking a girl.

"Working in the commercial sex industry, even if it is through dancing, through stripping, it's a way to make quick money for people that don't have a lot of options and don't have a lot of choices and feel really trapped and might not be able to wait 2 weeks to pay the rent or buy food."

"Even within strip clubs, women are being trafficked."

Stable is slang for the home the trafficker has multiple victims.

19:12Rebecca shares what a weekend was like when she was being sex trafficked.

"It's hard to describe. It felt like my sanity was slipping away from me. I started feeling like I was going crazy and I didn't know how to pull myself together enough to let the dust settle, because the dust never settled. I just needed a minute to think, but the minute never came. You start to feel your sanity slipping away....Just from the mental health of constant physical abuse and the constant fear."

26:56 Rebecca talks about trauma informed care and why is it vital for women and men who have been trafficked?

SHOW NOTES continued

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49: Jeremy Pryor | Family Teams Jan 07, 2020

Show notes

Jeremy and I chat about differences between eastern and western family cultures, choosing a family philosophy, developing family rhythms, and building multi-generational family teams.

5:03Jeremy talks about the multi-generational business he and his wife April started, Just Sew

"It grew out of a desire to integrate the generations."

"The biggest problem that plagues people in that stage of life, because people are living longer, is lack of purpose."

7:35Jeremy shares how he came to know Jesus as Lord and Savior 9:45Jeremy talks about his time living in Jerusalem, meeting his wife April, and how their time in Jerusalem shaped their view of family.

"In the Christian world we really adopt a western idea of family and Abraham had a very different idea. He cared so much about the descendants and where his family was going and he just seemed to see all of his life through his role as a father or patriarch of this growing family line."

13:58Jeremy dives deeper into how the Bible collides with the idea of the western idea of family

"God calls Himself the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Why does He do that? He seems to be really interested in this generational connection."

"In Genesis 1we see the reason why God created the first family, which was He wanted them to accomplish a mission: to be fruitful and multiply, to fill the earth and subdue it and to rule. We know family has a purpose. It is not simply to just be an environment for us to get our individual needs met."

"What was in God's heart when He made this thing called family?

"When you live for generations in a wealthy culture, individualism tends to trump family and then over time the family starts to break down."

18:05Jeremy talks about choosing a family philosophy and the family team philosophy

"It's important to understand ideas matter. What you think a thing is matters. You can see this with almost anything in life. What is fatherhood? What is motherhood? What is sonship? These are concepts that whatever you believe...deeply impact how you live, what you build, what you think about..."

SHOW NOTES continued

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48: Tori Hope Petersen | Hope For The Foster Child Dec 16, 2019

Show notes

Tori and I chat about being removed from her mom's care at a young age, moving from one foster home to another, the circumstances God used to open her heart to Him, discovering God was the father she had always longed for, allowing foster children to be the voice for policy change in our current system, and the longing for discipleship she experienced as a college student in crisis.

Blog: Torisstoris.wordpress.com

Psalm 40:2

He lifted me out of the slimy pit, out of the mud and mire; he set my feet on a rock and gave me a firm place to stand.

5:18 Tori begins sharing her story of growing up as a child who spent a stint of time in a foster home, before being reunified with her mother until age 12. She then returned to the foster system where she lived in 12 different homes before emancipating out 8:35Tori discusses replacing the lies spoken over her as a child with the truth.

Mire: a situation or state of difficulty, distress or embarassment from which it is hard to exit oneself

"I am made in the image of God and that is the most important aspect of the truth. It is not about who I am alone, but who I am because Christ made me and because He dwells in me. It has nothing to do with me and everything to do with Him."

"Sometimes I get so worried, 'Am I glorifying God?'....God calls us to glorify Him, but He also calls us to enjoy Him. We have to find enjoyment in those little things that are moving us toward God rather than tearing apart those little sins and big sins that are moving us away from God. We can acknowledge those, but ultimately grace has to cover over those."

13:02 Tori shares the events that led to her being placed in long term foster care

"There is something about when we are ignoring a blanant aspect of someone's identity we're not learning from them, we're not learning how their fully made in God's image, and then we're losing knowledge not just of ourselves, not just about the neighbor we are supposed to love, but about Christ."

"If you can't sit across the table from uncomfortable, you can not sit across the table from love."

18:47Tori shares what it was like in the her various foster care homes

"Often times I say, 'Oh, I went through 12 homes,' and it was difficult, but I learned so much about why people are the way they are. I learned that every good attribute that people have is for a reason and every bad behavior, bad characteristic someone has usually comes from a hurt that has been inflicted upon them."

SHOW NOTES continued

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47: Katherine Jackson | Empowering Refugees Through Hope Threads Dec 10, 2019

Show notes

Katherine and I chat about how she began building relationships with refugee women in our community which eventually led to the launch of an educational workforce program, Hope Threads.

3:52 Katherine shares how her journey with Jesus began

Campus Crusade

6:48 Hope Threads employs refugee women living in Raleigh, NC. Katherine shares how she did you originally connected with refugee women and how that led to Hope Threads.

Vickery Trading Company

12:26 Katherine shares what a work day at Hope Threads looks like.

Northridge Bible Chapel

“Of course, we want to pay them fair wages. We want to empower and equip them, but we want them to know Jesus and we want their kids to know Jesus.”

Windblown Jewelry– Rachel Calhoun

“We all can agree we need prayer, we make that a priority every week.”

17:06 Katherine talks about fair wages

“Basically, when you say fair wage you’re saying, above minimum wage in a safe environment.”

18:23 Katherine shares a few of the challenges she faces at Hope Threads

Documentary: The True Cost

24:53 Katherine shares what keeps her pressing on

“You look all through Scripture and what is He [Jesus] doing? He’s meeting with the Samaritan woman and He’s meeting with and healing the leper and He is with those that are on the outside and He’s bringing them in. That was His ministry. When I’m thinking through my life and how I want to be like Christ and I want to be like Jesus, I can follow what He did.”

“Even the word refugee can be very polarizing for people with all of the politics going on right now. I’ll be honest, I don’t sometimes how I feel about that, but what I do know is that they’re here and they’re my neighbor and we are called to love them and to help them and I feel very passionate about that. Again, His entire ministry, Jesus while He was on this earth, was to bring in the outsider.”

27:33 Katherine shares how someone can help out with Hope Threads and the refugee community here in Raleigh

Refugee Hope Partners