Drowned in Sound

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The joys of magazine-making with PROG Editor Jerry Ewing Feb 04, 2024

Show notes

How do you become a magazine editor that can put Kate Bush on the cover? And what’s it like running a genre-specific title in 2023?

In a world where the digital age is rapidly redefining media, Sean Adams (@seaninsound) meets a titan of the magazine world, Jerry Ewing, editor of PROG magazine for a rare interview. From his roots starting a Marillion-inspired fanzine to being at the helm of genre-defining publications such as Classic Rock and Metal Hammer, Jerry's journey is a testament to the enduring power of specialist knowledge and passion-driven journalism.

Episode Highlights:

The Genesis of a Genre Journalist: Jerry recounts the serendipitous moments that led him from crafting a fanzine to steering the course of iconic music magazines.
The Art of Magazine-making: Delve into the craft of curating content for a niche audience, the evolution of magazines in the internet era, and the potential resurgence akin to vinyl's comeback.
Defining the Undefined: What is progressive rock? Jerry challenges the conventional confines, advocating for a broad, idea-driven definition that encompasses the innovative spirit of the genre.
Adapting to the Beat of Change: The discussion turns to the seismic shifts in media consumption and the strategies for staying relevant in a landscape transformed by technology.
The Human Touch: Jerry envisions a future where the human element is not just a feature but a proud declaration in magazine-making.

Notable Quotes from Jerry Ewing:

"Progressive music's reach is quite wide... It's the ideas and the approach to making music that sets them apart."
"Understanding your readers is crucial... Be comfortable with your readership, and they'll feel comfortable with you."
"The editor guides the magazine... decides what goes in it, helps point the tone."
"For our readers, it's the music that matters... They're not interested in sex, drugs, and rock and roll."
"Communication between human beings is at the root of journalism."

Further Insights:

From Court Jester to PROG: Jerry's DIY beginnings and the transition from fanzine to professional journalism.
The Inclusive Vision of Prog: Embracing a wide spectrum from prog metal to experimental indie, Jerry's editorial direction is as diverse as the genre itself.
The Editor's Role: Setting the tone and creating a dialogue with music aficionados, Jerry's editorial philosophy is about crafting a space for in-depth musical exploration.
The Vinyl Moment for Magazines: Speculating on the tangible allure of print in the digital age, and the unique value it could regain.

Links:

What’s it like to broadcast from a war zone? Feb 04, 2024

Show notes

Award-winning reporter Julia MacFarlane explains what the music press can learn from traditional news journalism.

As Drowned in Sound's podcast season looking at the future of music media continues, we wander into the world of international journalism with award-winning reporter Julia MacFarlane. With a wealth of experience reporting on major global events for the BBC to ABC News, Julia shares her unique insights into the art of covering huge stories and the challenges of conveying truth in an age of misinformation.

DiS018 | Season 2: The Future of Music Journalism EP10

Highlights:

From Beirut to Brexit: Julia discusses her experiences covering critical global events.
The 'One Decision' Podcast: Learn about Julia's co-hosting experience with former Chief of MI6 Sir Richard Dearlove, where she interviews experts on a range of pressing topics.
Challenges of Modern Journalism: Julia reflects on the importance of accuracy and impartiality in journalism, especially in high-stakes international reporting.
Self-Shot Journalism: Julia discusses the challenges and rewards of self-shooting journalism and the necessity of recording events impartially and accurately.
The Power of Personal Stories: Understand the role of personal narratives in making complex global issues relatable and understandable.

Key Quotes:

"Recording events as they happen is vital... it's important to have professionals who are trained to record things accurately and impartially." - Julia MacFarlane
"The BBC was a crucial connection to home and world events for English-speaking families abroad." - Julia MacFarlane
"In filmmaking, whether you're a solo journalist or part of a team, finding compelling stories and voices is essential." - Julia MacFarlane

Timestamps:

[02:06] Julia's Background and Career Path
[14:03] Challenges and Responsibilities in Journalism
[29:17] Insights from 'One Decision' Podcast
[34:23] Navigating Journalism in the Digital Age

For more on Julia MacFarlane's work, check out the "One Decision" podcast and follow her on social media (Linkedin | Instagram | X | Threads).
Enjoyed this episode? Share it with a friend or leave us a review on Apple or Spotify.
For updates about Drowned in Sound, subscribe to our Substack newsletter

Hosted and Produced by Sean Adams.

Should music critics ’pivot to video’? Feb 04, 2024

Show notes

Meet the YouTube music critic who runs whilst reviewing records.

Probably not all of them, but there are some people evolving music criticism onto new mediums. To understand what it's like to be a "creator" on YouTube, we spoke to Jimmy Watkins, who gave up his career as an athlete (he reached the 800m final in the World Indoor Athletics Championships in 2006 and set a Welsh indoor record!) to play guitar for DiS favourites Future of the Left.

After leaving the band, he started a project called Running Punks with a friend which has become a community of music-lovin' runners. A spin off of this has been his videos where he reviews records, whilst running in the Welsh countryside.

In this conversation, Drowned in Sound founder Sean Adams continues his search for where music journalism is headed and explores where the idea for 'running reviews' came from, how Jimmy approaches them, when music writing got under his skin from (spoiler: it was music biographies and reading magazines in Tesco). We also touch upon Jimmy's upcoming documentary running across America and his new music project Joyce, which you can listen to on Bandcamp here.

Timestamps

00:00 Sean's Introduction: The Pivot to Video Journalism
00:56 The Running Review of The Art of Losing by The Anchoress
03:17 Understanding Journalism with Jimmy Watkins
04:55 The Evolution of Running Reviews
25:44 The Unique Appeal of Running Reviews
33:43 The Role of Music in Personal and Cultural Understanding
48:31 The Upcoming Projects and Final Thoughts

Links

Subscribe: Jimmy's channel on YouTube here.
Visit: Running Punks
Drowned in Sound's newsletter has now left Substack and is available on our new website at drownedinsound.org

Why Music Journalism Matters Feb 04, 2024

Show notes

The Quietus' John Doran reflects on the demise of Pitchfork and whether music journalism is now destined to be a hobby or can writing/thinking/talking about music thrive in a reader-funded era?

DiS020 | S2: The Future of the Music Press EP12

In his widely-shared piece for The Guardian, this episode's guest John Doran, co-founder of the esteemed music publication The Quietus, wrote about the importance of music criticism:

"I think a good analogy for writing about music is like composing poetry about the weather. You could spend an entire lifetime writing verse about thunderheads and tornadoes and not come within a mile of creating something that was as literally sublime, but once in a while the writer will connect with the rhythms, the flash of lightning, the spatter of rain, and if they are really focused they will discover entirely new rhythms and be inspired to write something unique."

Beyond the beauty and power of words, this discussion with Drowned in Sound founder Sean Adams covers a lot of ground including:

how Fela Kuti widened John's horizons and inspired a Guardian column that saw him taking a trip to Cairo to discover the emerging music scenes in Egypt
Sophie's impact on artists like Charli XCX
Poptimism and the domination of Taylor Swift
what it signifies for counterculture when James Blake plays at Chanel parties
the 'industry plant' nonsense surrounding the brilliant Last Dinner Party
the impact of search engine optimisation on what the music press commissions
a bit about the intersection of entertainment reporting with music writing
We also delve into the essence of why music journalism matters

As with the rest of this season, the conversation also looks ahead to what the future holds, and whether there will be enough voice like Neil Kulkarni's (RIP).

Key Timings

03:40 Exploring the Definition of Journalism

16:38 The Impact of Populism on Music Journalism

29:01 Exploring Music from Different Parts of the World

47:08 The Interconnectedness of Music Scenes

48:49 The Influence of Algorithms on Music Discovery

01:07:19 The Importance of Diverse Voices in Music Journalism

About The Guest

John Doran is the co-founder of award-winning website The Quietus. He has written for a range of publications including Bang!, The Guardian, NME, BBC, Vice, The Wire, Metal Hammer and more. His "misery memoir" Jolly Lad is out now. You can hear his BBC Radio 4 series New Weird Britain on BBC Sounds. Watch his British Masters series for Noisey on YouTube here. You can find him on Twitter @JahDuran.

About The Host

Sean Adams founded Drowned in Sound, which recently relaunched as a weekly newsletter here. Alongside hosting, he does all the production on this solo project podcast and wrote a little more about the process here. You'll find him on all social media platforms as @seaninsound.

Is ’Traditional Media’ Still Relevant for New Artists? Nov 23, 2023

Show notes

Does the music industry still need the music press? Do new acts still care about media coverage?

Explore the shifting landscape of music promotion in the digital era with Atlanta Cobb, the award-winning Music Business Coach and manager of multi-platinum selling artists.

In this episode, Drowned in Sound's founder Sean Adams delves deep into the existential questions surrounding the relevance of traditional music press in a time of TikTok. Atlanta shares her journey from Florence + The Machine fan site creator to consultant and coach, aiding hundreds of artists in navigating their evolving careers.

DiS017 | Season 2 - The Future of the Music Press | EP9

Key Topics and Time Stamps:

00:00 The Changing Role of Music Press
00:13 Audience Consumption Shift
00:51 Insights from a New Generation Music Consultant
01:34 Challenges in Getting New Artists Coverage
02:15 Decline of Music Press Influence
03:48 Rise of Social Media in the Music Industry
05:05 Reality of Music Consumerism
06:44 The Impact of Press on an Artist's Career
09:58 Role of Fan Communities in Music Promotion
10:19 Atlanta's Journey into the Music Industry
21:22 Impact of Press Quotes in Marketing
28:10 Effects of Social Media on Artists
29:51 Power of Audience and Fans in Music
30:55 Potential of Social Media Platforms
36:55 Role of Social Media in Music Promotion
51:00 Struggles of New Artists in Today's Industry
57:10 Need for Adaptation in the Music Industry
58:18 Closing Thoughts: The Love for Music

Insightful Quotes from Atlanta Coombs:

"Consistency is crucial, both in how press champions artists and how I advise my artists in their promotional strategies".
"The industry's trend towards TikTok and social media metrics often overlooks talented artists who lack massive followings or resources".
"The music industry needs to find different approaches to adapt and evolve, especially in how artists release music and engage in storytelling".
"It's like the wild west out there in the music industry, but having a deep love for it is essential to navigate its complexities and stay the course".

About Atlanta Cobb: Atlanta's rich background includes roles at Island Records and Columbia Records, working with artists like Post Malone and Drake. Atlanta was recently a day-to-day Artist Manager at Crown Talent & Media Group, working with artists such as Becky Hill, Ella Henderson, and Camden Cox.

Links:

Subscribe and Follow:

To stay updated with the latest in the music industry and Drowned in Sound episodes, subscribe to our podcast and follow us on our social channels.

If $600 billion a year is being spent, why are so many publications closing? Nov 14, 2023

Show notes

In a digital world awash with advertising money, why are music publications and media outlets facing extinction?

As we explore the future of the music press, we take a detour into the world of marketing to help make sense of the economics of the media landscape. Especially as the brilliant Jezebel closed last week and so far this year we've seen huge amount of job cuts across the media (especially at media behemoths VICE and Buzzfeed) and the closure of publications like Gal-dem.

Drowned in Sound's founder Sean Adams invites Darren Hemmings, mastermind behind Motive Unknown and a trailblazer in music marketing, to unravel this paradox. Together, they dissect the perplexing reality of a booming online ad industry ($600 billion a year according to this piece for Harvard Business Review) juxtaposed against the decline of traditional ad-supported music press. From the intricacies of connecting with music fans to the future of music media in the digital era, this episode promises an enlightening journey into the heart of the industry's current conundrum.

DiS016 | Season 2 - The Future of the Music Press | EP8

Episode Highlights

The Advertising Enigma: A look at how $600 billion is spent annually on online ads while media industry job losses and publication closures continue to rise.
Marketing, Money, and Music: Darren sheds light on the challenges of building an audience for artists and spreading music beyond existing fans.
The Art of Connection: Insights into the essence of marketing as not just a transaction but a meaningful connection with audiences.
Strategies Behind Chart-Topping Successes: The tactical approach to getting artists like Wet Leg and The 1975 to the number one spot.
The Evolution of Targeted Advertising: Discussing how the granularity of targeted ads has transformed over the years, impacting the way artists reach their audience.
The Rule of Seven in Music Marketing: Exploring the multitude of touchpoints required to persuade someone to invest in music or a product.
The Role of Indie Sector in the Evolving Music Ecosystem: A critical look at the role and response of the independent sector in shaping the music ecosystem amid major label strategies like Universal's investment in NTS.

Notable Quotes - "Marketing is about connecting with people in a way that doesn't treat them like a cash cow." - Darren Hemmings. - "There's a misconception that marketing for big artists like Robbie Williams is challenging, but in reality, they are the easiest to market due to their established fanbase." - Darren Hemmings. - "We've reached a point where you don't need to buy banner ads on music websites because you can target their readers on Facebook." - Darren Hemmings. - "I've become that person where every headline I write is a question. It's playing the game almost inadvertently." - Darren Hemmings. Related Links - Motive Unknown - Darren Hemmings' Network Notes Newsletter - Subscribe to Drowned in Sound on Substack

Darren Hemmings is at the forefront of digital marketing in the music industry as the founder and managing director of Motive Unknown, a strategic marketing consultancy. With a keen eye for the evolving landscape of digital advertising and a deep passion for music, Darren has led innovative marketing campaigns for a diverse array of artists and labels. His impressive roster includes influential acts like The Spice Girls, Wolf Alice, Jungle, Moby, Run The Jewels, Robbie Williams, Underworld, alt-J,, and prominent labels such as Sony Music, Dirty Hit, AnjunaBeats, AEI, Partisan Records, Warp Records, AWAL, LuckyMe, Lex, Platoon, Because Music, Mass Appeal, and B-Unique. Darren's expertise and insights offer a unique perspective on the intersection of music, marketing, and digital media, making him a sought-after voice in the industry.

This episode was produced, researched, and hosted by Sean Adams.

Has music become a sub-genre of internet culture? Nov 07, 2023

Show notes

NBC News' tech and culture reporter Kat Tenbarge has her finger firmly on the pulse of internet culture and the influencer economy. She honed her expertise at Insider through investigative forays into the complexities of digital fame. Her coverage is much more than product launches and squillion dollar deals, and touches upon MeToo, fandoms, exploring how internet mobs chill free speech, and so much more.

In this episode, we explore what the music press can learn from technology journalism.

Related links

Read Kat's reporting on NBC here.
Q&A about how Kat reported on the David Dobrik allegations for Insider
Kat's piece about Angelina Jolie and Amber Heard
Find Kat and her tweets about Evan Rachel Wood and others cases against Marilyn Manson here
Reporting: 'Free Britney' organizers and influencers took over a bar, threw a drag brunch, and blasted Britney Spears in a weekend devoted to the pop star
Follow Kat on Threads here
Reporting: How Tory Lanez trial bloggers are shaping the conversation around Megan Thee Stallion
Also mentioned on this podcast was the defunding Check My Ads and Stop Funding Hate
Podcast recommendation: Offline by Crooked Media

Episode Highlights:

"The Influencer Economy": Sean and Kat unravel the fabric of online influence, pondering its implications on cultural consumption and the MeToo movement's resonance within this sphere.

"Music and Memes": They delve into the curious interplay of internet culture and the music industry, where virality can be both a career catalyst and a capricious whirlwind.

"Ethics in the Age of Exposure": The conversation takes a contemplative turn, probing the moral compass guiding journalists amidst the relentless glare of the digital age.

"The Future of Influence": Kat shares her prognostications on the influencer culture's trajectory, contemplating its impact on the internet's burgeoning denizens.

This podcast was produced, researched, and hosted by Sean Adams (@seaninsound), the founder of Drowned in Sound website (est. 2000). For more deep dives into cultural currents and explorations of the musical zeitgeist, tune in and subscribe to DiS' Substack.

Quotes from this episode:

“I’m telling the story of our downfall as it's happening” on reporting on the downfall of the media

“Honestly, one of the most, like, mind bending things to watch someone like say to the public what they do and then have those people turn around and be like, he could never do this.” On Marilyn Manson

“I think that reporting that takes a point of view is actually going to be what is successful”

“This is a period that's going to redefine the next few centuries.

"The way that technology has evolved in the past 15 years. is going to change the rest of history. It already has”

“I worked at News websites that were dominated by the clicks and the traffic. And I recognized that in order to get people to click on something, there had to be conflict. This is how all storytelling, whether it's fiction or non fiction, works. You have to have conflict. There has to be a narrative. Um, if you're telling a story about a new product being launched, no one's going to click on that unless There's some element of this product launched and it's offensive “

Shouldn’t all music journalism be intersectional? Nov 05, 2023

Show notes

From revolutions in Iran to the pleasures of Lana Del Rey journalist Emma Garland has written for Vice, Huck, The Quietus, The Face, Crack, Dazed, Sunday Times, Rolling Stone and many more great publications.

Emma's interviewed everyone from Emily Ratajkowski to Lingua Ignota, capturing their essence in a style of writing inspired by the journalists from a more literary tradition like Joan Didion and Hunter S Thompson, so who better to talk to about music writing that's intersectional, encompassing far more of life and what it means to be human than 50 word reviews of the latest major label debut.

The conversation begins about the differences between journalism, culture writing and music criticism, before spiralling in a range of directions from psychoanalysing the cast of Love Island to the way the culture war means interviewees are now a lot more guarded because they're speaking far beyond the readers and their fans.

Emma Garland shares insights into her creative process, using humour to tackle weighty topics and how she spotlights underrated artists and big ideas, often at the same time.

We discuss concerns over limited career pathways for emerging writers and calls for more sustainable funding models for music publications (if there are any rich benefactors out there, please get in touch).

Additional topics include:

The changing appetite for music journalism in the digital age
Challenges pitching profiles versus reported features
Activism in music media
Hopes for more focus on grassroots artists
What needs to change leading up to future UK and US elections

Guest Bio: Emma Garland is a writer, editor, and journalist with a knack for capturing the zeitgeist of contemporary music and culture. With a career spanning over a decade, Emma has become a voice for countercultural narratives and a champion for the kind of editorial that combines fun with serious critique. Her upcoming book, "Tell All Your Friends," promises to be a seminal work in understanding the cultural history of mainstream emo from 2000-2013 (more info).

Read Emma Garland's article on women's role in music's political revolution, ⁠here⁠.

Read the Vice and Gal-Dem MeToo coverage, here.

For a monthly dose of cultural insights, subscribe to Emma Garland's newsletter, ⁠here⁠.

Visit: ⁠⁠Emma Garland's Website⁠

About The Host:

This podcast was produced, lightly edited, researched and hosted by Sean Adams (@seaninsound) who founded the Drowned in Sound website.

Want to keep up to date? Sign up for DiS' Substack here.

A Few Publications Mentioned in This Episode:

Shoutouts in this episode include investigative journalist Sirin Kale, Craig Jenkins (writer at Vulture), and Zing Tsjeng (editor in chief at Vice).

Lessons from two decades of crafting DIY Magazine Oct 31, 2023

Show notes

What's it really like to edit a music website?

DIY Magazine co-founder Emma Swann joins DiS founder Sean Adams on season two of the Drowned in Sound podcast about the future of music journalism.

We journey from the early days of the website to its current print & online format with a discussion that contrasts and compares DiS & DIY's stories, the thrills, the challenges, building a trusted voice, how brilliant the new Bully album is, some White Stripes fandom, a fair few mentions of Wolf Alice, red carpets, and much more.

We explore DIY's origin story, the value of human curation versus algorithms, and whether print magazines could make a comeback. Emma shares her unique perspective from the front lines of music media.

"Music journalism isn't just about reviews; it's about making connections, about showing the humanity behind every note."

"Print magazines have their own magic; they offer a pause, a moment of engagement you won't find online."

Learn more about Emma's work at DIY Magazine and follow on Twitter.
Emma is a creative force, dabbling in photography, writing, podcasting, and web design. See Emma's photography website here.
Check out the new Bully album they raved about.

Why music needs to talk about the climate crisis Oct 28, 2023

Show notes

Journalist, podcaster and climate communicator Greg Cochrane shares how interviewing ANOHNI changed his life, what it was like editing NME’s website, the joy of being involved in Loud & Quiet magazine plus a little bit about writing for The Guardian, interviewing Lady Gaga for the BBC, and plenty more.

The focus of our conversation is around the importance of understanding the intersection between the climate emergency and culture. “We need more stories about what’s happening” said Greg, in a really moving section of the podcast involving his hopes for the future of journalism. Toward the end, we also touch upon the economics of media and the creative economy as a self-sustaining ecosystem, including a shout out to Novara Media’s subscription model where people are encouraged to donate an hour of their salary.

Related Links

Read Greg’s life-changing interview with ANOHNI

https://www.loudandquiet.com/interview/anohni-hoping-for-a-miracle-cover-feature-interview/

Greg’s coverage of Billie Eilish’s recent “solutions focussed” Overheated event can be found here

https://www.nme.com/news/music/overheated-billie-eilish-mother-maggie-baird-interview-london-climate-event-3491598

Rebecca Solinit on hope in an age of climate boomers is here

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jul/26/we-cant-afford-to-be-climate-doomers

Subscribe to the Sounds like a Plan music & climate podcast that Greg co-hosts with Fay Milton (from Savages, co-founder of Music Declares Emergency and new music project Goddess)

https://linktr.ee/soundslikeaplanpodcast

Learn more about Greg’s work with Heard - the communications charity who support individuals and organisations to tell better stories on climate. https://heard.org.uk/articles/climate-stories-that-work-turning-awareness-into-action/

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