Divergent Conversations

Latest Episodes:

Episode 23: Challenging Stereotypes About Autism and Narcissism Oct 13, 2023

Show notes

Autism and narcissism can sometimes get lumped together in conversations, but despite there being some seemingly overlapping traits, it is important to not generalize all people with narcissistic traits as individuals with a narcissistic personality disorder.

In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, talk about the stereotypes, misconceptions, and misunderstandings surrounding autism and narcissism, as well as the traits that are often perceived to go with them.

Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:

Understand how social media, a more polarized society with low tolerance for disagreements, and privilege have impacted and shaped the use of the terms Autistic and narcissistic.
Identify some of the ways and reasons that Autistic individuals may face challenges in perceiving the world from someone else's perspective, leading to misunderstandings in relationships and conflict in the workplace.
Learn how communication styles, the ways autistic individuals find connection, and alexithymia can lead to mislabeling autistic people as unempathetic or narcissistic.

Both diagnoses are complex and multifaceted, so join us in unraveling some of the complexities of narcissism and autism.

*DISCLAIMER: Due to the limited time available in a podcast episode, we were only able to scratch the surface of the many nuances and conversations surrounding these complex diagnoses. We also want to emphasize that there are a lot of people with narcissistic personality disorder who are doing the work to get insight into it, so we don’t have the intention of putting down anyone who has received this diagnosis.

This is only a glimpse into the topic, so we encourage your questions and comments and will try to address them when we are able to do so or in a future podcast episode. You can reach out to divergentconversations@gmail.com.

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✨ Neurodivergent Insights Autistic Burnout Resources

If you’d like to supplement your learning on burnout, you can check out Neurodivergent Insights' resources on burnout. We have articles, an Autistic Burnout course, workbooks, and print books! Visit: neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resources

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💬 Join Divergent Conversations Underground

Divergent Conversations Undergroundis a space for messy conversations, real connection, and unfinished thoughts in a neurodivergent-affirming community. If you’d like to go deeper with us into more nuanced, searching conversations, join here: divergentconversations.substack.com

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Mentioned in this episode:

Neurodivergent Insights' Autistic Burnout Resources

Episode 22: Autism and Pregnancy Loss: An Autistic Journey of Grief and Identity (featuring Dr. Kiley Hanish) Oct 06, 2023

Show notes

Pregnancy loss is traumatic and the grief process that follows is complex. And when you are Autistic, the way you express grief and loss might not meet the expectations of society, which can result in feeling ashamed and isolated.

In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, speak with Dr. Kiley Hanish, a neurodivergent occupational therapist specializing in mental health during the perinatal period, about autistic grief and loss while focusing on pregnancy loss.

Both Dr. Neff and Kiley, who are both Autistic, experienced pregnancy loss and they talk about their experiences personally, within the medical system, going through pregnancy again after experiencing loss, having to parent their children after pregnancy loss, then sensory overwhelm that comes with pregnancy and parenting, and the ongoing process of grieving.

Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:

Hear about the profound grief associated not only with losing a child but also with the loss of one's identity when becoming a parent.
Understand some of the many ways that grief can manifest, and learn how to incorporate rituals and practices into the grieving process to honor your loss that is tailored toward the needs of autistic individuals.
Identify the ways that the healthcare system can improve the responses to individuals experiencing pregnancy loss to help create safety and reduce trauma in difficult times.

When experiencing loss, it’s not realistic to just “get over” the grief and move on. There are many complex emotions and often misunderstandings about what is the right way to deal with grief, especially when autism is brought into the equation. If you are experiencing this loss, you’re not alone and your experience is valid regardless of whether other people say you are “doing it right.”

More about Dr. Kiley Hanish:

Dr. Kiley Hanish is a neurodivergent occupational therapist specializing in mental health during the perinatal period, which includes pregnancy, postpartum, and perinatal loss. After suffering the stillbirth and loss of her first child Norbert, Kiley co-created the Emmy-nominated film Return To Zero to break the silence and stigma around pregnancy and infant loss for parents around the world. The film’s success and critical acclaim led to her non-profit organization Return to Zero: HOPE. This organization provides inclusive and compassionate education and support for bereaved families after pregnancy and infant loss. In addition, they provide training and support for health providers in order to foster more confidence when working with these families.

Return to Zero: HOPE Website: https://rtzhope.org
Kiley’s Instagram and Facebook: @rtzhope

Additional Resources Mentioned

Worden’s Four Tasks Of Grieving: https://whatsyourgrief.com/wordens-four-tasks-of-mournin

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✨ Neurodivergent Insights Autistic Burnout Resources

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Mentioned in this episode:

Neurodivergent Insights' Autistic Burnout Resources

Episode 21: Taking Up Space: Navigating Social Interactions as a Neurodivergent Individual Sep 29, 2023

Show notes

Taking up space and asking for what you need in social settings and relationships can be particularly challenging for Autistic individuals, especially before Autistic diagnosis or discovery.

It is not uncommon for many Autistic people to respond strongly to rejection, and we often work hard to "earn" a place in groups where we are allowed to safely exist by being helpful to others or blending in by dressing or acting in a way that seems "normal" or "acceptable."

Maintaining these actions while constantly paying attention to details can be a painful and exhausting experience.

In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, discuss the concept of taking up social and emotional space in interactions with others, what it felt like for them to balance efforts to belong with sensory overwhelm while they were still masking before Autism discovery, and the benefits of incorporating new ways of socializing and parallel play that honor their needs as autistic humans.

Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:

Understand the importance of Autistic individuals giving themselves permission to socialize in ways that feel comfortable and authentic to them.
Hear about Patrick and Dr. Neff's struggles with taking up space and fully expressing themselves, as well as the challenges of showing up authentically in crowded environments, social situations, and even in running their own businesses.
Learn about the importance of parallel play, both in social relationships and in connecting with neurodivergent communities, as well as how it provides a unique sense of comfort and understanding, allowing Autistic individuals to be themselves without the pressure to conform to neurotypical norms.

Communicating our needs and creating spaces where we can be understood and accepted is crucial, especially for neurodivergent individuals.

Finding the balance between self-expression and self-preservation can be a lifelong journey, but by honoring your needs and seeking community with individuals who understand and won't put the pressure of neurotypical values around relationships, it's possible to "create space" for yourself.

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✨ Neurodivergent Insights Autistic Burnout Resources

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Mentioned in this episode:

Neurodivergent Insights' Autistic Burnout Resources

Episode 20: Embracing Neuroqueer Identity: Queerness Explored Through the Lens of Autism and ADHD Sep 22, 2023

Show notes

Statistically, 70% of Autistic individuals identify as non-heterosexual, and genderqueer people are 3 to 6 times more likely to be diagnosed as Autistic than cisgender adults.

In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, talk with Rebecca Minor, MSW, LICSW, a gender expansive therapist and advocate in the neuroqueer space, about genderqueer identity and neuroqueer identity—what they are, how they intersect, and how they are perceived versus present in society, relationships, and the mental health community.

Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:

Understand what is genderqueer identity and neuroqueer identity, as well as delve into the misconceptions surrounding them.
See how neurodivergence and queerness overlap for both Autism and ADHD, including what studies have been done around this.
Understand the importance of self-disclosure in therapy, particularly for marginalized communities with intersectional identities, and how it can build connection and community, as well as offer emotional relief for clients.

There is still a lot to learn and unpack about queerness and neurodivergence, but research suggests a strong connection between neurodivergence and gender identity. We hope to shed light, give valuable insights, and broaden your understanding of these diverse identities.

More about Rebecca:

Rebecca Minor, MSW, LICSW is a neuroqueer femme, clinician, consultant, and educator specializing in the intersection of trauma, gender, and sexuality. As a Gender Specialist, Rebecca partners with trans and gender nonconforming youth through their journey of becoming, and is a guide to their parents in affirming it. Rebecca is part-time faculty at Boston University School of Social work and always works through a lens that is neurodiversity-affirming, trauma-informed, and resilience-oriented. In addition to her clinical work, Rebecca has provided cultural humility training and consultation to organizations, schools, and businesses for the past decade. You can follow her on Instagram, hire her for parent coaching, or check out her blog, and free guides and course for parents and caregivers!

Rebecca’s Website: www.genderspecialist.com
Work with Rebecca: https://www.genderspecialist.com/coaching
Rebecca’s Instagram: http://instagram.com/gender.specialist
Rebecca’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/RebeccaMinorLICSW

Resources

Neurodivergent Insights Masterclass Series: Exploring Neuroqueer Identities by Dr. Megan Anna Neff and Rebecca Minor: https://learn.neurodivergentinsights.com/exploring-neuroqueer-identities/

Neurodivergent Insights Infographic: https://neurodivergentinsights.com/autism-infographics/trans-autism

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✨ Neurodivergent Insights Autistic Burnout Resources

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Mentioned in this episode:

Neurodivergent Insights' Autistic Burnout Resources

Episode 19: Questions and Answers: Redefining Identity Through Autism Discovery Sep 15, 2023

Show notes

Many questions around identity often come up for adults who have been masking their whole lives and discover later in life that they are Autistic.

In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, answer some of the questions sent to them from podcast listeners about identity and moving forward in life after autism discovery.

Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:

Hear answers to questions like, how do you know who you really are beyond the mask, can you still enjoy your masked life and live as your authentic self, are you defined by your autistic traits?
Understand the process of self-discovery and how it can manifest for different people, as well as some ways to express your newfound identity.
Learn strategies to reshape the way you structure your time, commitments, and priorities to protect your energy and live a more balanced life.

The process of self-discovery and learning can be challenging. You might feel grief that can arise from losing or feeling disconnected from the masked version of your life, but you also can experience a feeling of liberation as you explore the new version of yourself, and you’ll have the opportunity to understand and honor your needs.

Resources

What is Masking in Autism? Autistic Masking Explained (blog post): https://neurodivergentinsights.com/blog/what-is-masking-in-autism?rq=masking

Autistic Masking Workbook:

As a podcast listener, you can use this coupon code to enjoy a 25% discount on the individual workbook or the workbook for clinicians.

For Personal Use, use coupon code: Unmasking25 here(https://neurodivergentinsights.com/neurodivergentstore/p/autistic-masking)
For Clinical Use, use code: Unmasking25-Clinical here (https://neurodivergentinsights.com/neurodivergentstore/p/autistic-masking-therapy-resources)

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✨ Neurodivergent Insights Autistic Burnout Resources

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Mentioned in this episode:

Neurodivergent Insights' Autistic Burnout Resources

Episode 18: Autistic Unmasking: Redefining Identity and Authentic Self-Discovery Sep 08, 2023

Show notes

Identity is complex and interwoven into the world around us. But as Autistic individuals who wear a mask, identity is often not entirely shaped by ourselves. Late in life discovery of autism or ADHD can set off a cascading journey of self-discovery and identity exploration. Once we start to embrace our authentic selves and explore our identity, everything can change.

In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, dive into the topic of exploring identity as late-diagnosed Autistic individuals and discuss the process of exploration and claiming an identity that embraces all our neurodivergent uniqueness, how it impacts and changes daily life and choices, and how it can shift both new and old relationships.

Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:

Understand what unmasking and redefining identity can look like, as well as how it can impact both internal and external experiences, preferences, and relationships.
Discover how breaking free from a "mask" identity can allow autistic individuals to explore their creative side, set boundaries, and authentically accept their autistic identity.
Learn how to use pleasure and play to explore identity and discover your most authentic self.

Give yourself permission to explore uncomfortable emotions and experiences. Be curious, dive into the things that give you pleasure, and detach from others' expectations to unlock new paths of self-awareness and understanding.

Resources

What is Masking in Autism? Autistic Masking Explained (blog post): https://neurodivergentinsights.com/blog/what-is-masking-in-autism?rq=masking

Neuroqueer Heresies: Notes on the Neurodiversity Paradigm, Autistic Empowerment, and Postnormal Possibilities by Dr. Nick Walker (book): https://neuroqueer.com/neuroqueer-heresies

Autistic Masking Workbook:

As a podcast listener, you can use this coupon code to enjoy a 25% discount on the individual workbook or the workbook for clinicians.

For Personal Use, use coupon code: Unmasking25 here (https://neurodivergentinsights.com/neurodivergentstore/p/autistic-masking)
For Clinical Use, use code: Unmasking25-Clinical here (https://neurodivergentinsights.com/neurodivergentstore/p/autistic-masking-therapy-resources)

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✨ Neurodivergent Insights Autistic Burnout Resources

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Mentioned in this episode:

Neurodivergent Insights' Autistic Burnout Resources

Episode 17: Autistic and ADHD Self-Identification and Misinformation Sep 01, 2023

Show notes

Lived experience, awareness, self-identification, and self-diagnosis for autism and ADHD can have immense value, allowing us to connect with a community and share experiences that others may not fully comprehend. However, there are also risks of misdiagnosis and misinformation that can potentially cause harm.

In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, explore the hot topics surrounding misinformation, social media anecdotes, and self-diagnosis of autism and ADHD.

Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:

Understand the importance of finding “data points” to look at the overall person and the importance of doing research on diagnosis using multiple sources.
Identify the reasons for self-identifying as autistic or ADHD.
Learn about the risks and benefits of self-diagnosis and how to make informed decisions.

If you relate to the experience of autism, ADHD, or any form of neurodivergent diagnosis that you hear about on social media or elsewhere, it’s important to gather information and research from multiple sources before fully taking on the identity that comes with a life-altering diagnosis.

Dr. Neff has tons of free resources available on her website, https://neurodivergentinsights.com, and Instagram page, @neurodivergent_insights.

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Mentioned in this episode:

Neurodivergent Insights' Autistic Burnout Resources

Episode 16: Autism and Healthcare: The Impact and Challenges of Self-Disclosure Aug 25, 2023

Show notes

Self-disclosure of an autistic diagnosis in medical situations or even everyday life is a very vulnerable thing to do, and there are so many results that can come from it.

Self-disclosure can result in both negative and positive experiences including everything from insurance challenges and negative societal assumptions to better accommodations for sensory issues in medical situations and quicker access to neurodivergent-affirming healthcare providers.

This mix of results can make the decision to self-disclose or even seek a diagnosis in the first place a very tricky choice.

In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, cover the topic of self-disclosure for autism diagnoses and share their personal experiences, both good and bad, around self-disclosure as autistic individuals diagnosed in adulthood.

Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:

Understand the complexities of disclosing autism diagnoses and the various implications it can have on one's life.
Understand the complications and stigma surrounding getting treatment with medication for neurodivergent individuals who are struggling with chronic health issues.
Learn how to tailor self-disclosure to meet specific needs and goals during medical visits.

Self-disclosure in medical settings can be complex and feel vulnerable and is not always right for everyone and every situation. However, if you choose to do so, using the method of partial self-disclosure to tailor care to your individual needs and finding healthcare providers who are neurodivergent-affirming and willing to learn about you and your needs can help reduce stress in medical situations.

Resources:

Autism Acceptance In Medical Care: This infographic talks through steps medical providers can take to be more Autistic aware and inclusive: https://neurodivergentinsights.com/autism-infographics/autism-acceptance-in-medicine

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Mentioned in this episode:

Neurodivergent Insights' Autistic Burnout Resources

Episode 15: Exploring the Intersection: Neurodivergent Experiences and Chronic Health Conditions featuring Dr. Mel Houser Aug 18, 2023

Show notes

Do you ever feel like your immune system is working against you? You don’t know what’s wrong, no one else knows what’s wrong, you keep doing medical tests and it’s coming back normal or the pieces don’t add up.

Autistic people often experience a myriad of chronic health conditions and nervous system dysregulation that leaves us feeling terrible, overwhelmed, and with tons more questions than answers about what’s going on with our bodies.

In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, talk with Dr. Mel Houser (she/they), an autistic family physician, about myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), the connection between Autism and nervous system dysregulation, the struggles with the healthcare system and getting treatment for these symptoms, and the importance of becoming a “detective in your own life.”

Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:

Understand the role that daily experiences play in potentially triggering health conditions or pain through nervous system dysregulation.
Uncover the complexities of living with neuroimmune conditions like ME CFS and mast cell dysfunction.
Learn how to get support to address the unique challenges that neurodivergent individuals face in accessing mental health and medical care.

More about Dr. Mel Houser:

Dr. Mel Houser (she/they) is an Autistic family physician with a clinical focus on providing primary care for neurodivergent patients across the lifespan. She is the Founder and Executive Director of All Brains Belong VT, a nonprofit 501(c)(3) organization in Montpelier, Vermont that uses universal design principles to provide neurodiversity-affirming medical care, social connection opportunities for all ages, and neurodiversity-related educational training. At age 37, Dr. Houser was diagnosed as autistic, ADHD, dyspraxic, dyslexic, and dyscalculic. She is also the parent of an autistic 6-year-old, who is her guru of so many keys to the universe.

Website: https://allbrainsbelong.org
Instagram: @allbrainsbelongvt

Check out All Brains Belong’s new project: Everything is Connected to Everything: Improving the Healthcare of Autistic & ADHD Adults provides health education resources to support people with this constellation of intertwined conditions, as well as strategies for discussing the project with medical providers. There is also a Clinician Guide with a combination of evidence-based practice and the lived experiences of more than 100 Autistic and ADHD community members.

Here's the link to the project: https://allbrainsbelong.org/all-the-things

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✨ Neurodivergent Insights Autistic Burnout Resources

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Mentioned in this episode:

Neurodivergent Insights' Autistic Burnout Resources

Episode 14: Autistic Masking: The Impact on Mental Health, Identity, Safety, and Privilege Aug 11, 2023

Show notes

There are a lot of nuances of Autistic masking, and it's become a sensitive and polarizing topic these days online and in social media.

With all the various opinions, information, and anecdotes out there, it can be confusing to understand what masking is, and how privilege and different social identities intersect with the experience of unmasking. Masking and unmasking impacts mental health, identity, and relationships in significant ways.

In this episode, Dr. Megan Anna Neff and Patrick Casale, two AuDHD mental health professionals, delve deep into the concept of Autistic masking as well as share their personal experiences with masking.

Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:

Understand how autistic masking is not just about blending in, as well as how it can be both beneficial and harmful.
Identify ways that privilege, safety, and race intersect with masking.
Learn strategies to address burnout caused by masking and, if desired, to unmask if you are in a position and place to do so.

Masking can be a very charged and complex topic, so now, more than ever, we need to delve deeper into the complexities of autistic masking and promote understanding, empathy, and inclusivity.

Resources: