Divergent Conversations

Latest Episodes:

Episode 43: The Relief and Grief of Later-in-Life Diagnosis [featuring Jamie Roberts] Mar 01, 2024

Show notes

A later-in-life diagnosis of a neurodivergent condition can be a catalyst for great relief after years of searching for answers and feeling a bit different as well as invoke grief over the shift in identity, the years of not knowing, a new understanding of limitations, and changes that this understanding might bring.

In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, talk with Jamie Roberts, the founder of Equilibrium Counseling Services, about the complex and deeply personal aspects of neurodiversity, identity, and self-discovery.

Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:

Discover the nuances of neurodivergent identities, including the double-edged sword of attaching to a diagnosis, and how the need for constant curiosity shapes personal and therapeutic growth.
Unveil the emotional layers of neurodivergent discovery and the balance of relief and grief that come with diagnoses later in life.
Explore the authentic paths of unmasking and setting boundaries after life-altering events, highlighting the transformative power of embracing one's true neurodivergent self in both personal and interpersonal dynamics.

The discovery of being neurodivergent can lead to a mix of emotions and more questions on top of the answers, but by further exploring your neurodivergent identity, you can find normalizing relief, a sense of community, and start to find your authentic self beyond the mask.

More about Jamie:

Jamie Roberts is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, and the founder of Equilibrium Counseling Services, a teen and young adult mental health center in Southern California. ECS, is a place where all identities and brains are celebrated, with the goal of building confidence in identity, and reducing symptoms of depression and anxiety. Jamie is the Neurodivergent Therapist throughout social media and is an active speaker on Neurodivergent and Teen topics. Jamie is also AuDHD (Autistic & ADHD) herself, and actively shares her experiences with her later-in-life diagnosis. She is the author of the book Mindfulness for Teen Anxiety, a practical guide to manage stress, ease worry, and find calm.

Jamie’s Website: equilibriumcs.com
20% off my course Becoming a Neurodivergent Affirming Therapist (code: DC20): Neurodivergenttherapist.mykajabi.com
Jamie’s book Mindfulness for Teen Anxiety: equilibriumcs.com/store/p/mindfulness-for-teen-anxiety-a-practical-guide-to-manage-stress-ease-worry-and-find-calm
Instagram: @neurodivergenttherapist

Jamie’s masterclass with Neurodivergent Insights is also now available! Check it out here: learn.neurodivergentinsights.com/mindfulness-for-teen-anxiety

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✨ Neurodivergent Insights Autistic Burnout Resources

If you’d like to supplement your learning on burnout, you can check out Neurodivergent Insights' resources on burnout. We have articles, an Autistic Burnout course, workbooks, and print books! Visit: neurodivergentinsights.com/burnout-resources

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Divergent Conversations Undergroundis a space for messy conversations, real connection, and unfinished thoughts in a neurodivergent-affirming community. If you’d like to go deeper with us into more nuanced, searching conversations, join here: divergentconversations.substack.com

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Mentioned in this episode:

Neurodivergent Insights' Autistic Burnout Resources

Episode 42: Let The People Feel What They Need To Feel [featuring Tiffany Hammond] Feb 23, 2024

Show notes

Navigating the world of autism advocacy can be an emotional and complex journey, filled with deeply personal conversations about identity, representation, and systemic change.

In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, talk with Tiffany Hammond, mother, storyteller, and the creator of Fidgets and Fries, about the intricate landscape of autism advocacy, especially done through stories, which Tiffany says are the best teachers, to create relatability and allow space for people to feel how they feel.

Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:

Gain insight into the debate over autism symbols, like the puzzle piece, and explore who decides what represents a community—a conversation that extends beyond iconography to embody the true essence of representation and inclusion.
Listen to Tiffany Hammond as she explores the diverse spectrum of Autistic experiences with an intersectional lens. She delves into the lives of non-speaking individuals and those in the offline community, broadening our understanding of advocacy and highlighting the urgent need for genuine societal change.
Learn about Tiffany's journey through advocacy as she bridges the gap between storytelling and education, challenging academic approaches, and embracing raw, emotional realities, paving the way for authentic conversations on race, disability, and privilege.

For many within the autism community, advocacy is not just about raising awareness. It's about challenging deeply ingrained beliefs and constructs, fighting for a space where a diversity of voices, especially those often overlooked or marginalized, are heard and appreciated, acknowledging the diversity of experiences, and working toward a future that honors all. Whether online or off, it’s important to work toward a future that embraces every piece of the spectrum.

More about Tiffany Hammond:

Tiffany Hammond is the voice behind Fidgets and Fries. She is an Autistic mother and advocate. Tiffany is a storyteller, using her own personal experiences with Autism and parenting two Autistic boys to guide others on their journey. Her activism is rooted in challenging the current perception of Autism as being a lifelong burden, cultivating a community that explores the concept of Intersectionality and Autism, and inspiring thought leaders through storytelling, education, and critical discourse. She has a Masters in Developmental Psychology from Liberty University.

Tiffany’s Website: fidgetsandfries.co
Tiffany’s Book: adaywithnowords.com
Instagram: instagram.com/fidgets.and.fries
Facebbok: Facebook.com/fidgetsandfries

Pre-Order Self-Care For Autistic People:

Dr. Neff is running a promotional this month. If you pre-order Self-Care for Autistic People you will also get a free digital workbook through Neurodivergent Insights. To learn more about this sign up here: newsletter.neurodivergentinsights.com/self-care

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Mentioned in this episode:

Neurodivergent Insights' Autistic Burnout Resources

Episode 41: Unfortunate Coping: Neurodivergence, Addiction, and Recovery Feb 16, 2024

Show notes

When you are struggling with sensory overwhelm, social anxiety, feelings of not fitting in, and the many other common struggles that neurodivergent individuals experience, there can be a lot of appeal to turn to coping mechanisms that can temporarily reduce those feelings. However, these momentary escapes can lead to dependency, addiction, and ultimately the loss of connection.

In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, dive into the complex topic of the connection between neurodivergence and addiction and “unfortunate coping.”

Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:

Gain insight into the stigma and societal reactions associated with struggling to control legal substances like alcohol and gambling, and explore strategies for coping with emotional avoidance and regulating emotions.
Understand the journey of overcoming addiction through Patrick and Dr. Neff’s personal stories, as well as learn about the importance of therapy, connection, and vulnerability, and challenge the clean recovery narratives, that often don’t work well for neurodivergent people, to acknowledge the complexity of recovery.
Explore the concept of harm reduction, the importance of community and connection, and the shift from focusing on not doing something to adding something in life as part of addiction recovery.

As you consider the complexities of addiction, we encourage you to reflect on the need for new language and approaches to support those struggling with addiction. Remember to practice empathy and compassion, and consider how you can contribute to building a community that fosters connection and supports individuals on their journey to recovery.

Pre-Order Self-Care For Autistic People:

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Mentioned in this episode:

Neurodivergent Insights' Autistic Burnout Resources

Episode 40: Bridging the Gap: Empowering Neurodivergent Families [featuring Dayna Abraham] Feb 09, 2024

Show notes

Many neurodivergent people grew up with the feeling of being different, not belonging, and some even feeling like the world was against them. They may have also received painful labels like, “challenging,” “too much,” and “not enough,” among others.

In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, talk with Dayna Abraham, ADHDer, national board educator, author, and parenting specialist for neurodivergent children, about how to bridge the gap between parents and children who don’t yet understand neurodivergence by meeting parents where they are with language and narrative so that they can access the information they need to start to see their kids for who they are.

Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:

Understand the importance of bridging gaps in awareness and education, as well as the need for compassion, understanding, and advocacy for neurodivergent individuals to challenge and change conventional attitudes and systems.
Learn how to shift from fault to needs and values when parenting a neurodivergent child so that parents can recognize and understand children's needs, as well as foster a support-based approach instead of fault-based parenting.
Hear the personal experiences of Patrick, Dr. Neff, and Dayna as they highlight their own experiences as children who were given the label of “challenging,” as well as the perspective of Dayna and Dr. Neff who now fill the role of the parent.

It’s only in more recent years that people have started to talk about and explore neurodiversity, so the gap that we now have to bridge to educate and advocate is still large. It’s important to offer parents of neurodivergent children the resources they need to challenge themselves to view and approach their children differently.

Pre-Order Self-Care For Autistic People:

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Mentioned in this episode:

Neurodivergent Insights' Autistic Burnout Resources

Episode 39: Reflection and Intention: Mapping Energy, Setting Boundaries, and Finding Balance Feb 02, 2024

Show notes

It’s important to take moments to pause and reflect on what is going well in your life and what you want to change moving forward, especially when you have more limited energy to invest into what you choose.

In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, talk about the importance and benefits of reflection and intention setting, as well as the shame, impact, and FOMO that can be experienced when addressing expectations and embracing limitations. They also share some of their own intentions and the emotions that accompany them as they move forward into the new year.

Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:

Understand the importance of being intentional with time and energy, and hear about Patrick and Dr. Neff’s struggles with workaholism and difficulty in setting boundaries.
Identify some areas to evaluate in your life to help with assessing what will fill versus drain your cup, as well as address some of the emotions and challenges that can arise in facing them.
See what plans and intentions Patrick and Dr. Neff have for 2024, as well as the emotions that arise with evaluating where to spend their energy, capacity, and focus.

It can be easy sometimes to get caught up in the excitement of making plans, but before the year fills with new activities, take a moment to pause and reflect on what you would like to include and even maybe remove from your life to help find more balance.

Pre-Order Self-Care For Autistic People:

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Mentioned in this episode:

Neurodivergent Insights' Autistic Burnout Resources

[FLASHBACK] Episode 25: Exploring Different Neurotypes: Ask a Neurotypical [featuring Jennifer Agee] Jan 26, 2024

Show notes

Would you describe the way you feel as you walk through the world as having raw, exposed nerve endings? Or would you say that you just flow through the world able to smoothly transition throughout to day to handle whatever comes your way?

In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, talk with Jennifer Agee, a neurotypical mental health professional, about her experience moving through the world as a neurotypical in comparison to the experiences of autistic individuals.

Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:

Understand some of the ways allistic neurotypicals might experience small talk, context cues, and pivot in social situations.
Identify the ways in which neurodiverse couples communicate and adjust for sensory needs so that both partners can have their needs fulfilled.
Hear some personal stories from Patrick, Dr. Neff, and Jennifer about how they experience travel, dating, marriage, and daily life in different ways.

We want to give this disclaimer that this episode only highlights the experience of one neurotypical person, but it still gives a glimpse into the unique ways that various neurotypes experience the world.

More about Jennifer Agee:

Jennifer is a Licensed Mental Health Therapist, Professional Entrepreneurial Retreat Host and Coach, host of the "Sh*t You Wish You Learned in Grad School" podcast, an internationally known speaker, and owner of Counseling Community, Inc. and Counseling Community KC. Jennifer stepped away from seeing clients in January 2023 and is now focused full time on clinical supervision, strategic business coaching, leading retreats and continuing education. Jennifer is a mental health regional spokesperson for a national healthcare company and pursues entrepreneurial opportunities utilizing her educational and therapeutic training to benefit the community in non "butt in seat" ways. She has a passion for helping therapists not only become excellent clinicians but solid practice owners.

Jennifer’s Website: https://counselingcommunity.com
Jennifer’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/destination.ce.retreats
Jennifer’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/counselingcommunity

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Mentioned in this episode:

Neurodivergent Insights' Autistic Burnout Resources

[FLASHBACK] Episode 24: Exploring Different Neurotypes: Ask an ADHDer [featuring Dr. Donna Henderson] Jan 19, 2024

Show notes

Ever wonder what the differences are between the ways non-Autistic ADHDers and Autistic ADHDers process and move through the world?

In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, talk with Dr. Donna Henderson, a non-Autistic, ADHDer psychologist, about her personal experience as an ADHDer, as well as explore the overlap and differences between ADHD and autism.

Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:

Understand what life looks like as an ADHDer in regards to things like executive functioning, sensitivity and reactiveness, conversational tempo, working memory, and task switching.
Identify the ways Autism and ADHD can influence how we process information and engage in conversations, as well as how this shows up in relationships.
Learn about what it really means to do self-care and how to break free from the generic standards of healthy living to act in alignment with what you actually need and want.

There is a surprising number of differences between the way Autistic individuals and ADHDers might experience the world. This episode only covers the experience of one ADHDer, so we encourage you to further explore the nuances and diverse perspectives of ADHDers.

More about Dr. Donna Henderson:

Dr. Donna Henderson has been a clinical psychologist for over 30 years. She is passionate about identifying and supporting autistic individuals, particularly those who camouflage, and she is co-author (with Drs. Sarah Wayland and Jamell White) of two books: Is This Autism? A guide for clinicians and everyone else and Is This Autism? A companion guide for diagnosing. Dr. Henderson’s professional home is The Stixrud Group in Silver Spring, Maryland, where she provides neuropsychological evaluations and consultations for children, adolescents, and adults who would like to understand themselves better. She is a sought-after lecturer on the less obvious presentations of autism, autistic girls and women, PDA, and on parenting children with complex profiles. She also provides case consultations and neurodiversity-affirmative training for other healthcare professionals.

Dr. Donna Henderson's Website: drdonnahenderson.com
You can grab Dr. Donna Henderson's books here: isthisautism.com
Dr. Donna Henderson’s Masterclass on PDA (with Neurodivergent Insights): https://learn.neurodivergentinsights.com/pda-masterclass/ (As a listener use “PDA10” to get $10.00 off the Masterclass!

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[FLASHBACK] Episode 15: Exploring the Intersection: Neurodivergent Experiences and Chronic Health Conditions featuring Dr. Mel Houser Jan 12, 2024

Show notes

Do you ever feel like your immune system is working against you? You don’t know what’s wrong, no one else knows what’s wrong, you keep doing medical tests and it’s coming back normal or the pieces don’t add up.

Autistic people often experience a myriad of chronic health conditions and nervous system dysregulation that leaves us feeling terrible, overwhelmed, and with tons more questions than answers about what’s going on with our bodies.

In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, talk with Dr. Mel Houser (she/they), an autistic family physician, about myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), the connection between Autism and nervous system dysregulation, the struggles with the healthcare system and getting treatment for these symptoms, and the importance of becoming a “detective in your own life.”

Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:

Understand the role that daily experiences play in potentially triggering health conditions or pain through nervous system dysregulation.
Uncover the complexities of living with neuroimmune conditions like ME CFS and mast cell dysfunction.
Learn how to get support to address the unique challenges that neurodivergent individuals face in accessing mental health and medical care.

More about Dr. Mel Houser:

Dr. Mel Houser (she/they) is an Autistic family physician with a clinical focus on providing primary care for neurodivergent patients across the lifespan. She is the Founder and Executive Director of All Brains Belong VT, a nonprofit 501(c)(3) organization in Montpelier, Vermont that uses universal design principles to provide neurodiversity-affirming medical care, social connection opportunities for all ages, and neurodiversity-related educational training. At age 37, Dr. Houser was diagnosed as autistic, ADHD, dyspraxic, dyslexic, and dyscalculic. She is also the parent of an autistic 6-year-old, who is her guru of so many keys to the universe.

Website: https://allbrainsbelong.org
Instagram: @allbrainsbelongvt

Check out All Brains Belong’s new project: Everything is Connected to Everything: Improving the Healthcare of Autistic & ADHD Adults provides health education resources to support people with this constellation of intertwined conditions, as well as strategies for discussing the project with medical providers. There is also a Clinician Guide with a combination of evidence-based practice and the lived experiences of more than 100 Autistic and ADHD community members.

Here's the link to the project: https://allbrainsbelong.org/all-the-things

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Mentioned in this episode:

Neurodivergent Insights' Autistic Burnout Resources

[FLASHBACK] Episode 7: Finding a Neurodivergent Affirmative Therapist Jan 05, 2024

Show notes

Finding a neurodivergent affirmative therapist is important for individuals who are Autistic, have ADHD, or have another diagnosis.

However, it isn't always easy to connect with a therapist who is willing to explore their client's special interests, even though it can help them feel more comfortable and relaxed during therapy sessions.

There are some therapists out there who shy away from or just don't understand neurodivergent minds and thinking, despite what claims may be on their profiles, which can make finding the right therapist a challenge.

But neurodivergent affirmative therapists are out there. You just need to know what to look for.

If you are looking for a neurodivergent affirmative therapist and aren't sure where to start, then this episode is for you.

Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:

Learn how and where to find a neurodivergent affirmative therapist who can support your unique needs.
Identify what to look for and expect in a neurodivergent affirmative therapist and what therapy modalities are generally most helpful for autistic and ADHD individuals.
Identify some common misconceptions about what kind of therapy works best for neurodivergent folks, as well as hear about Megan and Patrick's personal experiences.

Remember, finding a neurodivergent affirmative therapist can be a challenge, but with the right tools and information, it's absolutely achievable. Keep advocating for yourself, and know that healing and overcoming shame and stigma related to seeking therapy is a testament to your strength and resilience.

Additional Resources:

Check out these resources on Megan's website: neurodivergentinsights.com/resources

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Mentioned in this episode:

Neurodivergent Insights' Autistic Burnout Resources

[FLASHBACK] Episode 4: Diagnosis Stories (Part 1) — The Impact of Understanding Dec 29, 2023

Show notes

For individuals who've wondered if they are autistic (or know they are but haven't been formally diagnosed), it can be a complex journey to first decide whether or not to seek a formal autism diagnosis and then to learn how to restructure the way they see and interact with the world.

Getting diagnosed and embracing yourself as autistic can feel like tearing down a wall (or removing your mask). And you can finally see yourself clearly, but so can everyone else.

You might feel relief, you might feel grief, you might feel like you don't know what to do next, so if you're trying to decide if you want to get a formal diagnosis, then this episode is for you.

Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:

Hear 2 different diagnosis stories from Megan and Patrick, including a before and after look at the way they showed up in the world.
Understand the many different ways that autism presents and is perceived across different ages, gender, race, and other backgrounds.
Identify what it means to unmask and how to do it for yourself.

There are many misconceptions and cultural stereotypes around autism that make a misdiagnosis or complete overlooking of autism very common. Even Patrick and Megan didn't get diagnosed until adulthood.

If you are wondering about a diagnosis for yourself, a family member, etc., then hopefully these stories can help you find the answers for you.

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