Deviate

Latest Episodes:

What a 20th century monk can teach us about living (with Sophfronia Scott) May 18, 2021

Show notes

“For as much as we seek our paths and have questions about the journey, there is a sense deep within us, like a primeval compass, that shows we already know where to go.” – Sophfronia Scott

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Sophfronia talk about how they came to know of Merton, and how his journals reveal his truer self (2:00); being “spiritual but not religious,” the language of beholding versus the language of belief, and how interactions with nature are a spiritual exercise (9:00); human versus divine love, and how the most spiritual moments are often the most difficult ones in life (17:00); the importance of seeking a life of needing less, and how not be in a constant state of wanting (25:00); contemplation versus activism, learning to love people we do not agree with, and regulating desire in a world of abundance (34:30); and what Merton’s example can teach us in the 21st century, in an age of click-bait and decontextualized life (45:00).

Sophfronia Scott (@Sophfronia) is the author of five books. Her newest, The Seeker and the Monk, is about Catholic writer and activist Thomas Merton. She last appeared on Deviate to discuss mid-life career change, and her role in defining Generation X.

Notable Links:

Thomas Merton (monk and writer)
Merton Prayer
Conjectures of a Guilt Bystander (1968 Merton book)
The Seven Storey Mountain (1948 Merton autobiography)
The Asian Journal of Thomas Merton (1975 book)
Festival of Faith and Writing
Barbara Brown Taylor (theologian)
New Seeds of Contemplation (1962 Merton book)
Moonstruck (1987 movie)
Abbey of Gethsemani (Merton’s monastery in Kentucky)
Henri Nouwen (theologian)
2021 Capitol insurrection (attack on the U.S. Congress)
Sandy Hook shooting (2012 mass shooting)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lu mber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

Life changing travel experiences: Epiphanies of expatriate life in Korea May 04, 2021

Show notes

“I came to live and work in Korea and walked out two years later way more equipped in life, not just as a traveler, but as a person.” – Rolf Potts

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and his old friends Brian and Steve talk about the factors that led them to live and work in South Korea when they were in their twenties, and what they experienced when they first arrived (2:30); the cultural differences, idiosyncrasies, and lessons learned as expat English teachers during South Korea’s globalization boom-years (17:30); culture shock, North Korean provocations, anti-U.S. sentiment, and how what was “normal” was different in Korea than in the U.S. (30:00); drinking-culture, dating rituals, expat meltdowns, what they loved about being in Korea, and how it changed their lives (47:30).

Notable Links:

Lost Generation (Paris expats in the 1920s)
Jeonju (city in South Korea)
Van Life before #VanLife (Deviate episode)
Mid-20s crisis (quarter-life anxiety)
Michael Bolton (American singer)
Culture shock (cross-cultural disorientation)
Confucianism (Asian system of behavior)
Hagwon (private learning academies in Korea)
Parasite (2019 South Korean movie)
Chan-Ho Park (Korean MLB baseball player)
Sunshine Policy (South Korean diplomacy)
Dokdo (islet disputed between Korea and Japan)
Busan (city in South Korea)
Korean bathhouse (sex-segregated spas)
Bosintang (Korean dog-meat strew)
Man Bites Dog, by Rolf Potts (essay)
Tico (small Daewoo car in the 1990s)
Ondol (Korean heated floor)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lu mber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

Paul Theroux on the necessary obstacles of immersive slow travel [encore] Apr 20, 2021

Show notes

“All writing is trying to destroy a stereotype, and the individual that you’re writing about — the figure in the landscape — is actually the ideal.” —Paul Theroux

Paul Theroux‘s highly acclaimed novels include Blinding Light, My Other Life, and The Mosquito Coast. His 1975 book The Great Railway Bazaar is credited with revitalizing the genre of literary travel writing, and his more recent travel books include Ghost Train to the Eastern Star, Dark Star Safari, and The Last Train to Zona Verde. His newest book, out this month, is Under the Wave at Waimea.

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Paul talk about Theroux’s book Figures in a Landscape, and strategies for writing about the “human architecture of a place” (4:30); the attitude and time-investment required for meaningful travel reportage (19:30); the qualities that determine successful travel writing (24:50); the essential discomforts and obstacles of travel (31:45); the uses and shortcomings of paper maps in developing countries (39:15); and where Paul is traveling next (45:00).

Books, articles, and films mentioned

“Paul Theroux on Blogging, Travel Writing, and ‘Three Cups of Tea’” (2011 Atlantic interview)
The Great Railway Bazaar, by Paul Theroux
The Mosquito Coast, by Paul Theroux
The Tao of Travel, by Paul Theroux
Deep South, by Paul Theroux
American Notes, by Charles Dickens
Barbary Shore, by Norman Mailer
Journey Without Maps, by Graham Greene
Sea and Sardinia, by D.H. Lawrence
Travels, by Ibn Battuta
Travels, by Marco Polo
Lafcadio Hearn’s Japan: An Anthology
India: A Million Mutinies Now, by V.S. Naipaul
“Paul Theroux’s Quest to Define Hawaii” (2012 Smithsonian article)
“Mandalay,” by Rudyard Kipling (poem)
Rashomon (1950 Akira Kurosawa film)
The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp (1943 film)

People mentioned

Doris Lessing (novelist and poet)
Tom Wolfe (author and journalist)
Robin Williams (actor and comedian)
Elizabeth Taylor (actress)
Michael Jackson (singer-songwriter)
Rod Steiger (actor)
Mike Nichols (film director)
Margaret Mead (anthropologist)
Colin Turnbull (anthropologist)
Bronislaw Malinowski (anthropologist)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lu mber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

**Triumph in the middle of nowhere: The most 1980s underdog story of the 1980s** Apr 07, 2021
Show notes

“If you put Harrison Ford, Sting, and Andy Chapman in a room together in Kansas in 1981, the girls of Kansas would have trampled the actor and the rock star in an effort to get closer to the charismatic young soccer player.” – Rolf Potts

In this essay episode of *Deviate*, Rolf talks about the iconically 1980s sports phenomenon known as Major League Indoor Soccer, and how the league came about (5:00); his childhood fixation with the Wichita Wings, and how the presence of the pro soccer team and its players affected his mid-sized Kansas hometown (11:00); and the most famous game in MISL history, which pitted the Wings against the St. Louis Steamers, and what became of major league indoor soccer — and its legacy –as the 1980s wound down (23:00).

*God Save the Wings* (@GodSaveTheWings) is a feature-length documentary about the Wichita Wings, an indoor soccer team of European party boys who went toe-to-toe with all major markets in the crazy 1980s. Its latest screening is April 12-18, 2021 at Kansas City FilmFest International.

Tim O’Bryhim (@WichitaStory) is the producer of *God Save the Wings*, and co-author of *Make This Town Big: The Story of Roy Turner and the Wichita Wings*.

Notable Links:

Wichita Wings (indoor soccer team)

NASL (American outdoor soccer league)

Henry Kissinger (politician and diplomat)

Pele (Brazilian soccer player)

MISL (soccer league)

Show, Sex, and Suburbs (*Sports Illustrated* article)

Norman Lear (TV producer)

Green Bay Packers (NFL football team)

Krazy George (professional cheerleader)

Andy Chapman (MISL soccer player)

Nolan Ryan (baseball player)

Tony Dorsett (football player)

St. Louis Steamers (indoor soccer team)

Slobo Ilijevski (MISL soccer player)

Mike Dowler (MISL soccer player)

New York Arrows (indoor soccer team)

ESPN (sports TV network)

FNN-Score (sports TV network)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lu mber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

On the road with the superstars of Negro League baseball, 100 years on Apr 01, 2021

Show notes

“Baseball history needs to be looked at again. The statistics don’t make sense unless you understand the story that went behind those numbers.” – Phil S. Dixon

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Phil talk about the racial integration of Major League baseball in 1947, and the decades of high-level black baseball that came before it (4:00); how baseball was segregated in the 19th century, and why the Negro Leagues were formed in the early 20th (9:30); “barnstorming” baseball in local communities in places like Kansas, and what life on the road was like for these black teams (17:00); how Phil researched the history of the Negro Leagues, and the challenge of finding century-old game statistics (29:30); and how the Negro Leagues stars compare to other baseball players from history (39:00).

Phil S. Dixon (@NegroLeagueMan) is the author of seven books about baseball, and cofounder of the Negro Leagues Baseball Museum in Kansas City.

Notable Links:

J. L. Wilkinson (owner of the Kansas City Monarchs)
All Nations (barnstorming professional baseball team)
Barnstorming (traveling sports matches)
Bud Fowler (pre-segregation professional player)
Pythian Baseball Club (19th century black baseball team)
Moses Fleetwood Walker (baseball player)
Rube Foster (founder of the Negro Leagues)
Topeka Jack Johnson (baseball player)
House of David (baseball team from a Michigan commune)
Grover Cleveland Alexander (baseball player)
George Giles (baseball player)
Only the Ball Was White, by Robert Peterson (book)
Negro Baseball Leagues: A Photographic History, by Phil S. Dixon (book)
The 1931 Homestead Grays, by Phil S. Dixon (book)
Buck O’Neil (baseball player, manager, and scout)
Satchel Paige (baseball player)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lu mber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

Notes on the philosophy (and deeper meaning) of travel, with Emily Thomas Mar 23, 2021

Show notes

“Asking questions about travel, and exploring ways philosophy has changed travel, can help us think more deeply about our journeys.” – Emily Thomas

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Emily discuss the relationship between philosophy and travel (2:00); speculative fiction as a form of travel writing, and the relationship between feminism and travel (13:30); maps as a way of representing the world, and the aesthetic significance of mountains (24:00); beauty versus the sublime, and American naturalism and literature (32:00); and “cabin porn” and doom travel (40:00).

Emily Thomas (@emilytwrites) is an Associate Professor in Philosophy at Durham University. She completed her PhD at the University of Cambridge, and has published extensively on the philosophy of space and time. She is the author of The Meaning of Travel. For more about Emily, check out https://emilythomaswrites.co.uk.

Notable Links:

Age of Discovery (period of European exploration)
Francis Bacon (philosopher)
Robinson Crusoe, by Daniel Defoe (book)
The Blazing World, by Margaret Cavendish (book)
Mary Kingsley (explorer)
Isabella Bird (explorer/writer)
Mary Wollstonecraft (philosopher/writer)
Egeria (pilgrim)
Utopia, by Thomas More (book)
Henry David Thoreau (philosopher/naturalist)
Ralph Waldo Emerson (philosopher/essayist)
Climate change (large-scale shift in global weather)
Into the Wild, by Jon Krakauer (book)
René Descartes (philosopher)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lu mber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

Pam Houston on home, and the beauty of our pared-down lives [encore] Mar 09, 2021

Show notes

“How do we become who we are in the world? We ask the world to teach us.” – Pam Houston

In this episode of Deviate, Pam discusses her interactions with writing students (2:30); living an non-traditional life (16:30); developing a notion of home (25:00); and how Pam’s life on the ranch affects her writing (34:00). The episode concludes with Rolf reading his short essay “Creating a new sense of home is part of the travel process.”

Pam Houston (@pam_houston) is an author and professor of English at the University of California, Davis. Her books include Cowboys Are My Weakness and Contents May Have Shifted, with her latest, Deep Creek, set for release in January 2019. For more information on Pam, check out her website at https://pamhouston.wordpress.com/

Notable Links:

Santa Fe Writers Workshop
“Some Kind of Calling,” by Pam Houston (essay)
“Pam Houston on (Finally) Finding True Love” (essay)
Desert Solitaire, by Edward Abbey (book)
Pilgrim at Tinker Creek, by Annie Dillard (book)
My Antonia, by Willa Cather (novel)
Alice Munro (author)
Terry Tempest Williams (author)
The Meadow, by James Galvan (book)
West Fork Complex (2013 wildfire)

This episode is brought you by the Santa Fe Workshops, which offer a variety of online and in-person classes and seminars in writing and photography, including “The Particular Beauty of Our Pared-Down Lives,” an online writing workshop featuring author Pam Houston (March 30 – April 15, 2021).

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lu mber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

Long-distance hiking at home: The art of journeying out of your own back door Feb 23, 2021

Show notes

“In COVID times it’s harder to get on a plane and go hiking in, say, Austria or Italy. So we said, ‘why not do a 20-mile hike out of our back door?’” –Kristen Bush

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Kiki sit in a Kansas town known as “Little Sweden” and talk about the joys and challenges of having walked 22 miles there the day before (3:00); the difference between urban, rural, and wilderness walking, how these experiences differ for men and women, and how the suffering of a long walk affects the experience (20:00); the subtle beauty, idiosyncrasies, and historical narratives contained a landscape like Kansas (28:00); Rolf and Kiki’s resumed hike to Coronado Heights, and how meeting a dog named “Larry” the day before made their day more interesting (41:00); how walking enforces a more deliberate pace of travel, and how people see you differently when you’re walking (53:00); how routine tasks like “using the toilet” or getting tired when you’re walking allow you to get in touch with your body in a new way (1:00:30); how walking frees you from having a “consumer” relationship to the world, and how it makes you realize the miracles inherent in everything (1:08:30); and an “Easter Egg” bonus about walking and silence (1:16:15).

Kristen “Kiki” Bush is an actress, known for Paterno (2018), Liberal Arts (2012), and Synecdoche, New York (2008). Her TV credits include The Affair, The Good Wife, Elementary, and Law & Order: SVU. She has performed onstage at Manhattan Theatre Club, The Public, the Old Globe, Goodman Theatre, and Lincoln Center.

Notable Links:

Lindsborg (Kansas town known as “Little Sweden”)
Ol Stuga (restaurant-bar in Lindsborg)
Grain elevator (building that stores grain)
Flâneur (urban mode of walking)
Wanderlust, by Rebecca Solnit (book about walking)
The Flaneur, by Edmund White (book about urban walking)
Of Walking in Ice, by Werner Herzog (book)
Christina’s World (painting by Andrew Wyeth)
Larry Lapsley (African-American pioneer in Kansas)
Nicodemus (Kansas town established by African-Americans)
Coronado Heights (butte near Lindsborg)
Dala horse (traditional Swedish carved horse)
Hemslöjd (Swedish gift shop in Lindsborg)
Edward Abbey (American author and essayist)
Thomas Swick (travel writer)
Søren Kierkegaard (Danish philosopher)
Thích Nhất Hạnh (Vietnamese Thiền Buddhist monk and author)

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lu mber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

Pico Iyer on the creative task of travel across the world and deep within [encore] Feb 09, 2021

Show notes

“The boundaries of life are responsible for the beauty of life.” – Pico Iyer

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Pico discuss the people we become when we travel (4:00); what led Pico to travel (10:00); travel in the age of technology (20:00); finding the remarkable in the unremarkable (32:00); ping pong as a metaphor for life (40:00); the importance of impermanence (50:00); and the idea of being versus becoming (1:01:00).

Pico Iyer (@PicoIyer) is a novelist, essayist, and one of the most influential travel writers of his generation. He is known for such books as Video Night in Kathmandu and The Lady and the Monk, with many of his works receiving significant critical acclaim. He has also written for such publications as The New York Times, Time, and Harper’s. For more about Pico, check out http://picoiyerjourneys.com/

Notable Links:

A Beginner’s Guide to Japan, by Pico Iyer (book)
Autumn Light, by Pico Iyer (book)
Walt Whitman (poet / essayist)
John Muir (naturalist)
Herman Melville (writer)
Let’s Go (travel guide series)
Salman Rushdie (writer)
John Burroughs (naturalist / writer)

This episode is brought to you by the Santa Fe Workshops, which offer a variety of online and in-person classes and seminars in writing and photography, including “Across the World and Deep Within,” a travel webinar featuring author Pico Iyer (February 16-18, 2021).

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lu mber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

What it’s like to take your kids on a three-month journey in the Himalayas Jan 22, 2021

Show notes

“I learned so quickly that children change everything about travel.” –Bruce Kirkby

In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Bruce discuss how Bruce got his travel-writing career started, and why he ended up traveling to a Tibetan Indian monastery with his young family (3:00); what it is like to travel overland with young kids in tow, from Canada to India, and how having a child on the autism spectrum affects the experience (12:30); what it was like to travel to Asia with a sixteen-person TV crew in tow (23:00); what it was like to life a low-tech offline life and teach English in a remote (yet changing) mountain region in Tibetan India (27:30); how Bruce and his family navigated the tension between tradition and modernity in Zanskar, and how being there for three months differs from a shorter visit (38:00).

Bruce Kirkby (@bruce_kirkby) is a Canadian adventurer, photographer, and writer. His newest book, discussed in this episode, is Blue Sky Kingdom: An Epic Family Journey to the Heart of the Himalaya. More about Bruce and his career can be found at: http://brucekirkby.com/.

Notable Links:

Mergui Archipelago (group of islands in southern Myanmar)
Family Ties (1980s TV show starring Michael J. Fox)
Kate Harris (Canadian travel writer)
Kate Harris on travel (Deviate podcast episode)
Zanskar (mountain region in Tibetan India)
Ladakh (union territory in India’s Kashmir region)
Autism spectrum disorder (neurodevelopmental condition)
Big Crazy Family Adventure (Travel Channel show)
Long Way Round (TV travel doc featuring Ewan McGregor)
Monkey mind (Buddhist concept)
14th Dalai Lama (Tibetan spiritual leader)
Rumspringa (Amish rite of passage)
Leh (capital city of Ladakh)
Being a better bad tourist (Deviate episode)

This episode is sponsored by the Santa Fe Workshops, which offer a variety of online and in-person classes and seminars in writing and photography, including “Three Simple Lines & The Color of Wind,” a hybrid writing-photography webinar featuring Natalie Goldberg and Eddie Soloway (January 27-29, 2021); and “Across the World and Deep Within,” a travel webinar featuring author Pico Iyer (February 16-18, 2021).

The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lu mber.

Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

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