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Kiera is joined by Brannon Moncrief, principal and CEO of McLerran and Associates and expert on dental practice sales and DSO affiliates. The two talk about running your practice with a mindset to sell (maybe not today or tomorrow, but eventually). That means thinking about your business as it is and preparing it for a private buyer or DSO or associate transition; "keeping your foot on the gas" when it comes to finances; knowing what those sale numbers can look like depending on how successful your practice is; and more. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: Kiera (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera. And today I have one of my favorite people in the industry on the podcast today. He and I have podcasted multiple times. I just think he's a wealth of knowledge. And today I'm really excited because I think that the landscape of what to do with our practices, whether I have a private buy, whether I have an associate legacy transition, whether I go to a DSO, like what do I do? And how do I make my practice like a viable asset as opposed to just a job for me for the rest of time? I feel like Brannon Moncrief is one of the best of the best in the industry to answer these questions. He and I chat shop often and he is a wealth of knowledge for me. So Brannon, welcome to the podcast today. How are you? Brannon Moncrief (00:38) Thanks for having me. Appreciate the kind words. Kiera (00:41) Of course. you and I were just chatting. I think you and I have talked like, what, this is our third time in less than a week. So it's kind of fun to have this in a a real podcast setting. but Brannon, for those who don't know you and don't know about your business and what you do, just give the listeners a little bit of background of who Brannon Moncroep is, and then we're gonna dive into how people can valuate their practices and kind of like what do I do in this choose your own adventure landscape that they're living in. Brannon Moncrief (01:05) Appreciate that. I am the principal and CEO of McLaren and Associates. And I've spent pretty much my entire professional career on the business side of dentistry, about 25 years now. I can't believe it's already been that long. I I wish. I wish. That's the filter on my camera. Kiera (01:17) It's okay. You're not a day over 25, Brannon. You just started this from a baby. it's a nice one. Brannon Moncrief (01:27) thank you. So I spent the first 10 or so years of my career as a dental lender, lending money to dentists all across the country to Buy and start practices. And then I purchased McLaren 15 years ago. The legacy business that I acquired was a small mom and pop practice brokerage firm focused on traditional practice sales, doctor-to-doctor, practice transitions, specifically in Texas. Scaled that business significantly over the past five, six years, expanded it nationwide. So now we have offices all across the country handling doctor-to-doctor deals. In general dentistry and across all different dental specialties. And then a lot of your audience has probably seen me on different podcasts, webinars talking about DSO affiliations. We got heavily involved in the DSO and private equity space about seven years ago, really out of necessity. We were watching a lot of doctors that we thought would engage us to sell their business to another clinician choose to go down the DSO path for one reason or the other. And we knew that private equity was likely here to stay and gonna consolidate our industry rapidly. So we evolved. We built out a team, built out a process to provide cell set advisory to large practice owners who, for one reason or the other, are gonna choose to affiliate with a DSO or private equity as opposed to sell in a traditional sense to another doctor. So we've done about 250 DSO affiliations across the country, general dentistry and all dental specialties. And then we've been involved in about 1500 private practice sales. So have really seen everything that can go right and wrong in monetizing your business. But I look at my job first and foremost to educate doctors regarding what is your business worth, private buyer versus DSO? What are the pros and cons? What are the nuances of each of those options? Get you educated, and then you get to choose your own adventure from there. And we help you execute. We help you take the practice to market and monetize it. at the highest possible outcome and also ensure that we find the right fit for your practice, the right buyer to protect your legacy. Kiera (03:33) No, Brannon, I think that you guys do so much in the industry and you've helped the industry. And I've learned a lot working with you, working with several of our clients. And I feel like this is just something as a business owner, whether you are thinking of selling today or selling in the future. I remember when I first started Dental A Team, people were like, Kiera, you're gonna sell it. And I was like, always. Like I'm always building this to be sold. That doesn't mean that I want to sell it today or tomorrow or the next day. But I would be an absolute rookie if I didn't think about selling this at some point in time. I think you build businesses better when you have that exit in mind. Again, that doesn't mean like I have no intentions of rapidly firing this off. I've been here for quite some time. I feel like I'm getting cozy in this chair, just like I'm sure Brannon and you are in your business. but it's constantly building it, innovating it, creating systems, creating EBITDA, creating those profit margins that are necessary. So when the day comes, because I don't believe that any of us are probably going to really know. The day we want to sell. I've seen plenty of doctors who have had divorce hit, they've had death hit, they've had accidents. I had a dentist get hit by a bike. Like he was on his bike and he got hit by a car, so he didn't get hit by a bike. He was on a bike getting hit. And I'm like, I promise you that day leaving the office, it wasn't like, I'm on a bucket list to get hit by a car today. Like that just surely was not there. But he had built his practice to where if he wanted to sell, he could, or we had the systems and processes in place to give him the options. And I think that just preparing for this gives optionality long term. So you're doing it on your terms as opposed to being forced to make a rash decision unexpectedly. So going into that with that mindset, and I hope people, and I know Brannon, you agree with that. Otherwise, we wouldn't be podcasting. You and I have very aligned interests in the industry. But I am really curious, like helping people to kind of have that mindset. Like, what are some of the things that DSOs versus private buyers versus like just transitioning to an associate? What are some of the things? Because I know that there's different flavors and factors. Like, I don't like mint chips. But I definitely like a grasshopper shake. Like I like both, but don't give me the little chips in it. It's disgusting. Like I prefer the like Oreo mashed up with the mint flavoring. So like I'm gonna prefer different things. And I guarantee you that while both might like the same flavor with air quotes around it, there's nuances that both of those buyers are going to want differently. So how do people, when they're looking at this, thinking about that future sell? again, not tomorrow, but when they're when the time comes, whether planned or unplanned, what should they be preparing for for both of those different types of buyers? Brannon Moncrief (05:57) Love what you said about like being prepared to sell at any moment in time. Because if you take the steps to prepare your practice to be marketable, valuable, and sellable, those are the same steps you need to take to make your business hum, you know, on a daily basis, right? Kiera (06:12) Exactly. Brannon Moncrief (06:13) but you never know what life's gonna throw at you. So you always want to be prepared, whether you're looking two years down the road or 20 years down the road. we'll kind of bifurcate our conversation today in a flip-flopping back and forth between private buyer versus DSO because they're really. know two different worlds. So when Kiera (06:27) Mm-hmm. Brannon Moncrief (06:28) we talk about the private buyer world, you want to do check as many boxes as possible as far as what private buyers are looking for when they call somebody like McLaren and say, hey, I'm looking to buy a practice. And we ask, okay, great, tell me about what you're looking for. Because the answer is pretty consistent. Typically private buyers are looking for a practice within 60 miles of a major metro area. So urban, suburban markets. Those practices are going to see higher valuations and more demand than practices in tertiary or rural markets. Doesn't mean that if you're in a tertiary market, you can't sell your practice. It just means that all things equal, it might take a little bit longer and it might trade for a lower valuation. they're looking for five plus operatories. Most young dentists these days are relatively entrepreneurial. And eventually want to grow into a multi-doctor practice for one reason or the other. A lot of that is lifestyle driven. Some of that may be value driven, the fact that they eventually want to sell the practice for a premium to a DSO or private equity. They're looking for PPO and fee for service practices. So if you have an HMO component or a Medicaid component, that's definitely going to impact demand and valuation. They're looking at technology, equipment, facility, curb appeal. All of that matters when you go to monetize your business, but you also want to be evaluating what is your runway to selling the business and are you going to get the ROI on that investment at sale, right? If you're six months away from selling, probably doesn't make a lot of sense to pour a lot of money into technology and equipment and updating your practice. But if you're five years away, seven years away, 10 years away, you're going to get the benefit, the ROI of that investment along the way. And it's going to make your practice more valuable and more sellable when you go to sell. you want to make sure that your financials are updated and clean. You want to make sure that you're working with, you know, a dental CPA. we see a lot of messy financials, and that becomes a serious problem when advisors step in on the buy side and are trying to figure out, you know, what is the true overhead of this practice? What does the cash flow actually look like after removing all those personal and discretionary expenses you're writing off to the business? And a lot of the private buyer deals are going to be contingent on financing. So lenders are looking, you know, through that. That same, you know, lens as well. I would say keeping your foot on the gas, you know, that's one of the biggest issues that we see where we start looking at financials for a client that's ready to go to market. And I'm like, damn, I wish you would have called me three years ago. And there's always an Kiera (08:56) Yes. Brannon Moncrief (08:58) explanation. No, I'm spending more time with the grandkids, I'm playing more golf, you know, I'm traveling more, the patients are still there. The reality is buyers care about the most recent couple of years of performance. So you want to keep your foot on the gas leading up to a sale. You want to sell at a peak, not a valley. Otherwise, you just need to be conscious of the fact that you might be transitioning your practice without being aware of it. What we call sunsetting an office. And that's a strategy, but Kiera (09:25) Mm-hmm. Brannon Moncrief (09:25) we want it to be a conscious strategy, not an unconscious strategy where you sunset the practice from a cash flow perspective and then you call me and you want to sell it for what it would have been worth three years ago. Right. So keeping your foot on the gas. is a big one. And the earlier you start planning, the more optionality you're gonna have. So Kiera (09:45) Mm-hmm. Brannon Moncrief (09:45) if you wait until the day you're ready to sell, you got one option, right? It's a it's a short-term transition. Sell tomorrow, you're likely out the door within four to six weeks, unless you have a large multi-doctor practice. So the earlier you start planning, you can think about, you know, does a DSO make sense? Is it does it make sense to do some type of internal succession planning? You know, bring associates on as minority partners and then step out. you know, over a period of time or do some type of associate to purchase. So start planning, I would say at least three to five years in advance. That's that's really key. Start having these conversations, learn what drives value, get a feel for what type of transition strategy you ultimately want to deploy and what you can do in the meantime, you know, what levers you can pull to increase profitability, increased demand and marketability leading up to a sale. And that's where you know somebody like you comes into play, right? You can help pull those levers And help the doctor increase the value of the practice leading up to the sale. So that's really what matters in the private buyer world. Now, the DSO world is going to mirror a lot of that. what I would layer in there is DSOs care a lot about EBITDA profitability and making sure that, you know, your practice is generating at least, let's say, two million dollars in top line revenue, four hundred thousand dollars or more in EBITDA. That's really the size practices that they're looking for. And I would say if you fall below that metric, you might have some DSOs interested. But in my opinion, makes no sense to consider a DSO affiliation if you're doing less than $2 million in top-wind revenue. It's just not, in my opinion, economically motivating comparative to hanging on to the practice for a little while and then eventually selling it to a private buyer. But key-man risk is a big deal. Engineering the practice in a way that it's not. solely dependent upon you both from an operational perspective and Kiera (11:37) Yeah. Brannon Moncrief (11:38) from a productivity perspective. So, you know, becoming a multi-doctor practice that is not solely contingent upon you clinically. And then, you know, building out your team to where it's not so dependent on you operationally on the day-to-day as well. So I think in the DSO world, it's really about profitability, it's about that key man risk. And then it's about having enough runway To exit to fulfill the post-closing requirement that the DSO is going to require. So the industry has moved towards a norm of five years. That doesn't mean you working five years full-time, chair side. It just means they want you to have a vested interest in the business for five years post-sale. So if you wait until the day you're ready to exit, DSO is off the table. So Kiera (12:23) Yeah. Brannon Moncrief (12:26) those are the three things I think that make DSO a little bit different than private buyer. But ultimately, All of those things, I think, are smart business, even if you're five, 10, 15, 20 years away from a sale. Kiera (12:41) Yeah. And Brannon, I love that you talk about this because you're exactly right. Like these things are what you actually want your business to be as a business owner. You want it to be profi…
Full show notes at the publisherRe-releasing a favorite of Dental A-Team listeners! Kiera chats with Chick-fil-A owner and operator George Demetriades — and it's all about applying the chain fast-food restaurant's success into your dental practice. There's a lot of gold packed into this episode, but some of the highlights include: Abiding by character, competence, community Creating realistic and attainable systems Hiring ideal employees Identifying high performers Acquiring a loyal fanbase Cultivating a consistent culture Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: Kiera Dent (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera. And today we are bringing you something so special. I am so excited because this is one of our most popular episodes from the archives. Whether you're hearing this for the first time or catching it again, I am so excited because it's jam packed with a ton of takeaways that you can start using right now in your practice. We have released thousands, literally thousands of episodes. And I wanted to start bringing a few of these amazing episodes back for you. So I hope you enjoy. And as always, thanks for listening and I'll catch you next time. on the Dental A Team podcast. speaker-0 (00:31) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera. And my gosh, I am like fangirling so hard right now. if you guys have heard, Dr. Nate Tillman, he was at Dental A Team Summit, and this year we had a really strong theme where we talked about Chick-fil-A and how much their customer service and their experience is just unmatched. So after Summit, Nate texted me and said, Kiera, I have a friend. He owns some Chick-fil-A franchises. Would you be interested if I could get to him on your podcast? And my gosh, heart eyes, like gold stars galore. I have the one and only George Demetriades on today, owner of Chick-fil-A. He owns these. I am so giddy. George, welcome to the podcast. I have been so ecstatic to podcast with you. speaker-1 (01:15) Thank you so much, Kiera. I really am grateful that for the opportunity to to chat with you guys. And yes, Nate is a very, very close friend of many, many years. If I mess this up, then it then I don't know Nate. It's not Nate's fault. And we'll we'll make up a name of Sam Schmuckatelli, the dentist in Hobble or something like that that that that referred me to you. So speaker-0 (01:38) my gosh. No. Honestly, George, you're seriously so nice. And Nate is incredible. And for those of you who like can if you're just listening, be sure to snag our little snippets of this one. You literally can see George's name tag on. He is sitting in Chick-fil-A corner office right now, hanging out. He's in boots on the ground. So George, let's just kind of take it through. You and I have chatted a little bit. I have so many questions. Sure. I just I l I mean I wasn't a huge Chick-fil-A fan until I learned about their spicy deluxe sandwich. Mix it with the Chick-fil-A sauce. my gosh, every Saturday Jason and I wake up and Jay says, Kiera, what's today? And I say Chick-fil-A day. Like it's every day. and so George, kind of just tell us a little bit about your background. I know you're an owner operator for eight years of Chick-fil-A, but kind of prior to that, you and I had chatted before. I just want the listeners to know who is George, and then we're diving all into Chick-fil-A today. speaker-1 (02:28) Awesome. Yeah, thank you so much again for allowing me to join the podcast. so I was born and raised in Atlanta, which is the home of Chick-fil-A, been eating it my whole life. graduated from high school, went off to Wake Forest University, which is where I know Nate from, and was commissioned into the Army as an intelligence officer. Served in the Army for a number of years, and then when I left, left active duty, some time on Capitol Hill, some time in the consulting business, and and after about 10 years of that. I found my way to Chick-fil-A. I had just become kind of it was a mid midlife, I guess, or pre-midlife crisis, professional crisis, and didn't didn't find a lot of fulfillment in the consulting world anymore. Talked to a friend of mine down at our corporate headquarters about a few ideas I had and he said, Hey, if you haven't thought about a about a franchise, you should go to this website, check it up, check it out, and and holler back with questions. So did that. Called him back and at some point over the next eighteen months of interviews, probably at many points during those eighteen months, my buddy down at corporate snuck into people's offices in the dark of night and took my file from trash cans back into their inboxes and I made it through the process and so took over the the Chick-fil-A in Crystal City, Virginia, just outside of DC in January of twenty fifteen. Nate and Carrie were there that day, that morning, which means a great deal to me. And And then two years ago, a little bit more than two years ago, opened up my second location in Pentagon City, which is yeah, just a less than a mile from the original location that I had. And so I operate those two franchises with with a team of of well over a hundred folks that are just incredible people who inspire me every day. they really they they make my my job and my life not only easy, but it's really fulfilled. so and that's me. It's it's me and a dog, a couple of nieces and a nephew and nine godchildren running around. speaker-0 (04:36) How fun. George, okay, I'm really curious. Number one, you talked about being an intelligence. So I mean I'm gonna derail from Chick-fil-A a little bit. Tell me the craziest experience in intelligence. Like you have this like very undercover life. Intelligence, Chick-fil-A, anything crazy in intelligence? speaker-1 (04:52) I so I tell people I was an intelligence officer but not a very intelligent officer. And and the guys that I served with are all like, Well, he finally got one right. so I was a tactical intelligence officer, so I wasn't like James Bond. I was I was out helping commanders on the battlefield understand what the enemy was was likely to do, what capabilities they had and and how we would counter that. and you know, the army was was really, really good to me. I my my some of my closest friends in the world are are from that that period in my life still today. And a lot of them are still in. A couple of them are generals now, which makes me feel very old. and but it's the army was really, really good to me. So nothing nothing crazy. It was it was it it was I was very fortunate throughout my survey. speaker-0 (05:41) Interesting. Well, I do feel like there's probably strategy trying to figure out what they're going to do, which probably helps you potentially in your Chick-fil-A franchise as well. So I need to know now how do you become a Chick-fil-A franchise owner? Like is I feel like this is a hard process because Chick-fil-A is so well known. They're so like they're across the board. Like, how long does this process to become a franchise owner? And how do even do it? speaker-1 (06:02) Yeah, it's a it's a very long process. It starts with an expression of interest, which is kind of like a mini application. And and we have I think the most the number I heard most recently was last year we had around a hundred and eight thousand people express interest in becoming a Chick-fil-A operator. speaker-0 (06:17) my gosh. Okay. speaker-1 (06:18) The the opportunity is this is this is my my only job. so we are we are not looking for folks who have a collection of franchises and just want to add a Chick-fil-A to their portfolio. and we are we are looking for folks who have a lot of leadership background who can use that to to really move the objectives and goals of the restaurant forward. we we kind of rely on three things when we're looking at at operator candidates and even our corporate staff candidates, which is character confidence and community. character speaks for itself. We wanna we wanna know that you're a person of character and that you've had that consistent character throughout your life. We want to know that you're part of your community and that wherever you've been, that you find ways to contribute. you know, not just not just a job and and family and all those things, but ways beyond beyond what others might do in the community. And and the competence piece really is all about leadership. Chick-fil-A and and coming in from the military, a lot of the systems they use have a very they they our training systems especially you can tell there was where there were folks involved in that development that had military experience, but but Chick-fil-A is exceptionally good at putting a system around as much as possible. they're even better at personalizing those systems and making sure they don't seem stale or or systemic, so to speak. speaker-0 (07:51) Like I need to know this, George. This is what I'm dying to know. Because Chick-fil-A, every experience, no matter where I'm at, and this is what we talked about. This is why I'm so giddy to talk to you. It's like I think Starbucks, I don't know how they do for their on-boarding and Chick-fil-A. Like, but Chick-fil-A has good food. I don't drink coffee, but man, Starbucks could definitely take a look no on how to make delicious hot chocolate. Like it's disgusting. Probably the worst hot chocolate I've ever had. But they have an incredible experience there. And I love to go work there. But Chick-fil-A, like you cook great food. Great service. People are so happy there. And I have been so giddy to know about their system. So George, explain this more to me. And of course, I told George and I will tell all the listeners, Chick-fil-A is a special business, just like your businesses are special. So if I ask any questions that are off radar, not allowed to talk about George has every right to tell me, Kiera, that's secret sauce. that's the Chick-fil-A secret sauce, and I will definitely respect that. So, George, you have my promise. but anything you can tell me about their systems. I love that you said they personalize the systems, but explain this to me 'cause I don't I didn't go to the military. But the military I think is brilliant with their systems. How tell me more about these systems in Chick-fil-A. I need speaker-1 (09:00) Yeah, so I think you know, I think that that i i when we talk about competence in that in that suite of things we look for in our operators, competence is about leadership. It's not about having an MBA or being able to take a a P N L statement and squeeze every last penny out of the out of the out of the P and L statement. Make no mistake about it, we are a for profit enterprise. and and that that profit allows us to continue to grow and and all of you know, continue to to compensate our people and all of those things. But I think what personalizes our systems is that we push it down to the lowest possible level, which is the restaurant, right? And so my title is owner operator. And that's because I'm expected to operate the business. This is the only active investment I have. You know, stocks are one thing. You know, all of those types of passive investments, sure. But in terms of what I do day to day, this is it. So I am in my restaurants every day. and I, you know, I get to make the decisions. The all of the folks in my restaurants work for me. That's the that's true. They don't work for Chick-fil-A Corporate. Chick-fil-A Corporate has some great systems that we can employ. We have, you know, the typical ones that any small business owner like a like a dentist would would think about when it comes to employer liability insurance or health insurance, all of those types of things, payroll. you know, we have a we have a centralized systems for that. but but quite frankly, you know, if my dog could speak and had opposable thumbs, he could he could do the administrative side of the business. I mean it is it it's really kinda hard to mess up. but the fact that I'm in this business every day making decisions with my leaders, if we if we make a mistake, if we make a bad decision, we just stop and pivot. And and I think in a lot of other businesses, you know, a lot of other kind of chain type type restaurants and businesses. if you where that where that owner operator influence is missing, or is not in the restaurant every day, you you don't get to do that. You have managers who may be afraid to make decisions. Perhaps they're not empowered to make decisions. I took vacation earlier this year and went to Greece for two weeks for the first time and I sent Chick-fil-A an email and I said, Hey everybody, Helen is empowered to make any and all decisions on my behalf. My phone will work in Greece. If you need me, call me. If I'm out in the hinterlands picking olives and you can't reach me, then Helen is empowered to make any and all decisions. I I trust her implicitly. And and I think a lot of of operators in our chain have have a Helen on their team or several Helens that are empowered to make decisions and that we rely on in in a lot of ways to ensure that our businesses operate smoothly. And and so That's I think what lends the personal to the systems, right? You can put the systems in place, but if if folks aren't bought into if the systems aren't aren't realistic and attainable, the the goals that you've set, if they're not measurable, then folks are just gonna get frustrated. And and so that's that's kind of the approach that we take. and it's it's worked out well. It makes really allows me to focus on the strategy of the business and where we want to be in 2030 as as a couple of restaurants that are in a very dynamic and growing area. How we want to influence the area and and take care of people. Because I've got folks like Helen and Alvin who who operate my two restaurants for me. They do the day-to-day and and they're empowered to do that. They empower their teams to do that. So systems allow us to focus on the things that only we can focus on. And I think that's critically important. speaker-0 (12:59) yes. Yeah, I love that. That definitely helped. So and I definitely derailed us on this systems. So let's just quickly wrap up the last thought because I'm sure people are like, wait, wait, wait. She was on a path of how do you even become a franchise owner and then pushed into systems because I want to know. but I really do love that you one took a vacation to Greece because I think for listeners. How many of you can leave your businesses for two weeks and empower an employee to make decisions all on your behalf and to be able to have it run? And for dentist, that means having another dentist in there. George, yes, he needs to be able to take care of these, but he has people in place to do that. And I love that they're personalized. I love that you empower them. But I I also hope people listened to the fact that you are thinking of 2030. Just to date, we're in 2023. So he's seven years forward thinking. And you said what's the impact? Like obviously, where do we want to be financially? But you said how what's the impact we want to make within our community? And I think when people think of their communities impacting how do we want to look as a as a business and a restaurant, that was really beautiful. So back to you send in 108,000 people are interested in Chick-fil-A every year. Then you've got to look for your character, if I remember right, character, competency and community. Okay. Perfect. So…
Full show notes at the publisherAs practices grow and new people filter in, it's normal to want to measure each member of your team against your current goals versus where they were when first hired. Tiff and Nikki talk about assessing positions from a bird's eye view, working with someone who's stalled out in individual growth, differentiating emotions from the practical, and more. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: Tiffanie (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. We are excited to be here with you today. I am just putting this out there. Nikki and I have tried to record this podcast now three Nikki Mack (00:09) Yeah. Tiffanie (00:10) times, and we are excited to get this information to you guys and hoping that our network works with us full time today. Nikki, thank you for being flexible, for being someone that will just jump in and for loving on Dental A Team and your clients as much as you do. I value and appreciate you so much. This week and every week. How are you today? Nikki Mack (00:32) I am good. It's so good to be here. I'm hopeful for today. We've got it. I know it's gonna work. and just, you know, what a fun testament of like we're committed. We're gonna get this to you, we're gonna do what it takes. And couldn't think of anyone to be doing it with that would be better than you. So yeah, happy to be here. Tiffanie (00:50) Thank you. Thank you. I think you pointed out something very special there. It's Sterilis. It's a part of our core values, right? Do the right thing. We've got the grit and the passion for excellence and the results focus. We are living and breathing those this week. I completely agree. gosh, Nikki. so fun fact, we both head out for offices soon. we're both gonna be Nikki Mack (01:15) Mm-hmm. Tiffanie (01:15) on the road again. And I was looking at the weather. This morning with my fiance. Have you looked yet? Nikki Mack (01:23) I have it. Now I'm nervous. It's share. Share with the class. Tiffanie (01:24) Yeah. So mm-hmm. So just for everyone's knowledge base, at the time of recording this, it is mid October. We're like a week into October of twenty twenty six. And yesterday here in Phoenix, in my area of Phoenix was a hundred degrees. That was our high. Today's Nikki Mack (01:44) Mm. Tiffanie (01:44) high is ninety nine. Next week it's like high sixties and we're gone. Nikki Mack (01:52) Okay, yeah, that tracks. Got it. Tiffanie (01:55) No, so last week when Nikki was gone, or the week before last when Nikki was gone, we were both traveling that week and everywhere we went we had just missed the rain. Like it was trailing right behind us, including at home. So it was beautiful at home, it was raining, the weather was gorgeous, and we get back and it's sunny and hot and we've been living sunny and hot now. And as soon as we leave, like legitimately I think Sunday, it starts cooling down. Yep. Aaron said, he said, my gosh, it's gonna be so pretty next week. I Yeah, and it's literally the entire time that I'm gone. Seven days of beauty, seven days I'm gone. So I thought I'd share that with you today. I get you prepped, ready to go. It's Thursday. So, you know, here we are. It's gonna be great. Nikki Mack (02:40) Yeah. It's my mind for it. I love it. You know what? Well but I will say this. At least almost everywhere we go is beautiful and green. Everywhere's beautiful. Tiffanie (02:50) This is true. Nikki Mack (02:51) Walk that back. Everywhere's beautiful. Just most places are also green. And as desert girlies, like I love to see it. So there's a win. Tiffanie (02:57) Yeah, it's so true. And we should get some fall colors, which they're not good, it might be beautiful here, but there's no fall colors in Phoenix. So I love that. I love that. Nikki Mack (03:05) Absolutely. my god. Tiffanie (03:08) Well, more testaments to our core values, which actually, as you said that earlier, like our our testament to getting this done, I kind of I think that actually we spoke a little bit about what we were gonna talk about today, but I think that kind of ties into today's statements as well and really talking about our core values. So Today, Nikki, I'm picking your brain on team. And something it's been a very recurring theme. and I think actually, now that I say it out loud, like I think a lot of practices right now are pushing for growth. It's towards the end of the year and they've experienced some growth. For whatever reason, this year has been like a like a stale growth. It hasn't been a lot at one time. It's been kind of intermittent and a weird year for sure. But practices are experiencing that growth. And within that, we hire new people, shift things shift and people shift, but we really start taking a look at the people that we have, the people that we need, et cetera. And today's topic, we really wanted to talk about your team. Like, would you rehire everyone on your team? And I love this title or this topic that our marketing team gave to us so much because it's like hard. Core, right? Like it hit. It was like, wow, that's like cut into the chase. Would you rehire everyone? So, Nikki, I think this is something that comes up for a lot of practices, at least in my consulting. And I think you're seeing it. I know specifically a couple of practices you have that have onboarded new doctors and new hygienists and just this expansive growth. When it comes to looking at the actual team members, what are you helping practices work through? How are you walking them through that and really? trying to decide on something like this, like would you hire this person again? How do you, how do you work that with them? Nikki Mack (04:58) So I think the first step is you have to take an honest look at the practice, yourself as a leader and kind of your expectations, right? Where are we like truly at? What's changed this year, and what do I still want to change, right? You know, like what what goalposts are we still working towards and how has that translated with my team? Because here's the thing at the end of the day, you hired everyone on your team for a reason, right? Nobody, I think, wandered in off the street and was like, Can I stay for a bit? And you're like, Yeah, sounds good, right? You know, we'll teach you how to use Tentrics, it's fine. but our teams do change, right? Our office changes, and we change as leaders and kind of our goals and things we're looking for. So being able to say, like, okay, let me take a real honest look at where we're at, where I'm trying to go, and how everyone kind of fits in with that right now, not from that personal relationship standpoint. not from you know past experiences with them, but just how do they fit into my team and my structure because what do I need? a good example of that, I think a lot of times when we talk about org charts with teams, right? we love an org chart. But what do Tiffanie (06:08) I do. Nikki Mack (06:08) we usually tell them, let's design an org chart for what your office needs, not for the people that you currently have in place. And then we figure out how they fit into those positions. Because we have to be honest about what we're trying to build and what team structure gets us there. And I think it's that same kind of mentality, even if we have an org chart, if we're evaluating our team, what do we really have? Right? Like what is in place and what are our goals? Tiffanie (06:34) Yeah, I love that. And Nikki Mack (06:35) Mm-hmm. Tiffanie (06:36) within that like org chart and that structure and really looking at those goals, I something I notice is even just in the same position, no growth for the practice, a lot of times someone can just like get stale or stagnant, or maybe they were in a space that worked for a while and now that's that space just isn't working. Do you feel, Nikki, that once someone's a bad seed, they're always a bad seed? do you feel like there's opportunity for individual growth? I've seen all of it, and I think we can walk through so many scenarios, but like when you consult a practice and when on Dental A Team consults a practice for all of the listeners, we rely heavily on a lot of information that you provide to us. And so we're the bird's eye viewpoint. and we try to see everything from that high-level kind of looking in. But we really do require so much data and input from you. So Nikki, with that, when you're coming in like blind, we'll call it, right? You're just you've just got the information that you have. How are you helping a doctor to assess those people? And I'm like truly interested. Nikki Mack (07:50) Yeah. Okay, so this is possibly one of my fatal flaws. we're full transparency, right? Here on Dental A Team. I absolutely believe people are you Tiffanie (08:00) Same. Nikki Mack (08:00) rehabilitate, right? Like I know it and sometimes look guys, sometimes I've tried way too long to my detriment. But what valuable experience to know when to tell you, like, guys, cut it. We've done what Tiffanie (08:13) It's fair. Nikki Mack (08:13) we can. but I do often think there's room. And I know a few of my teams right now would be listening to this and being like, Yes, we had that same conversation. I was like, This person, we've done everything, there's no hope. And I was Well, let's just try one more thing, right? Now I'm Tiffanie (08:28) Yeah. Nikki Mack (08:28) fresh, new set of eyes. Let's be for sure that we've done everything. Because it's completely fair as a leader. Sometimes we think we've done everything, and sometimes we've only responded out of frustration in the moment. And so I do think people can be Saved, right? So to speak. but we have to be super intentional. And this is about really looking into okay, what are my concerns with this problem, with this person, excuse me? What are their opportunities? What are the consistent challenges? Is this something that's coachable? Or is this something that is simply not a fit? Whether it's skill set, personality, you know, something of that degree, if it truly doesn't work for what I need from that role, then we have a different conversation. Because I think it goes. In two places, depending on the position. Are they still a good fit for my team, but maybe in a different seat? Or is there not somewhere in this practice that is the appropriate seat for what we're trying to do and where they're at? But Tiffanie (09:28) Yeah. Nikki Mack (09:28) ultimately, yes, I am gonna try to save you a hundred percent. I just want to be sure that I did everything I could and that we are confident if you are in the right seat and you're the right person. Tiffanie (09:39) Personally and professionally, that's me to my detriment. Yes, Nikki Mack (09:41) Yeah. Tiffanie (09:45) I think a lot of us in the dental field probably feel that way. Something I'm hearing that's really special and important to pull out is the separation that you're creating from the emotional standpoint to the black and white. Like, are they are they a good fit? And that's personality wise. and capabilities, but removing those emotional pieces. Because to your point of what you said, I think a lot of decisions we make in life in general are emotionally based decisions. Like we don't go to Target, right, for just the things we need. I every time we walk into Target, the kids are like, what are are we here for? Like, did we get everything we need? And I every single time I say, listen, guys, Target doesn't, I don't always come knowing what I need from Target. Target tells me what I need. And we walk around until I feel as though Target has spoken to me all that it can. And then we check out. Then it's time. Then it's time to Nikki Mack (10:43) Then it's time to check out. Okay. Tiffanie (10:45) check out. And those are just those are emotionally, you know, we're walking through the it's always the kitchen stuff, right? And I'm like, you know, and my cart's full. And sis is like, I don't think we needed that. I'm like, it's fine. Target said, but we're making those decisions. not just at Target, we're also making them in the workplace, and maybe even more so in the workplace because the stress is higher. Like Target's not stressing me out. It's just getting me excited, right? But I'm still making these emotionally based decisions on if I do or don't want something. And I think at the workplace it's so much more stress evolved, right? They're involved. There's so much more stress to be had that we're like, cut it, be done. Or I'm gonna continue trying until I can't try anymore. So I love that you determined those two pieces. Now, would you rehire everyone on your team is like that's honestly it's a little harsh, right? And I love it because I want to take that look. and something you mentioned too with the org chart. And then you also said like are they in the right seat? Are they right the right person? So does their personality fit our practice and then are they in the right place? Something that ties into what you said initially this morning when we started was like the core value. So I think it's huge for people and for practice owners to understand how to separate those two things. And Nikki, I think you do a great job at anecdotes and allowing people to see like real life examples. How would you how would you help a doctor to determine like, is this an an emotional decision that I'm making, or can I see on paper black and white that this person does or doesn't work for us? Nikki Mack (12:27) Yeah. I think it comes back to KPIs a little bit, right? Tiffanie (12:31) Mm. Nikki Mack (12:31) You know our things we love. because you have to decide if the outcome, whether that outcome is frustration, things not getting done, holes in the schedule, lack of follow up, whatever the outcome is that's causing that concern, where is that coming from? Is it a KPI issue? Is it a training issue, or is it a personality issue, right? Like kind of a fit. Because we talk a lot in dentistry about how fit matters a ton, right? Patients need to find the right dentist for what they're looking for. You need the right team for what you're looking for. And I think it definitely matters with team and what role they fill. Because we'll take, for example, a small office, right? We've you and I have both been there, right? I was the only girl up front running the show. So I did the phone calls, I did confirmation, I did billing. We're a hundred years old, so we didn't get to text patients to confirm. Tiffanie (13:22) Yeah, fair. Nikki Mack (13:23) We were making 40 phone calls, right? you figure out how to do all of it and we make it work, right? And our office thrives and we grow and it's amazing. And then we bring more people on. But sometimes people are doing certain duties just because they've fallen into that place, or that's kind of where it is. But then as we grow and there's a little bit more of dedication to tasks, I might still be with a task that actually I don't love. And I can do it, but It's not what fills my cup, right? And it's not what kind of gets me excited to come in every day. And that over time will impact our performance, right? Even if we're good at it. Look, my billing ladies out there, Tiffanie and I both talked about t…
Full show notes at the publisherKiera is joined by Ryan Gross, CEO of Grapevine (formerly CEOShare), to discuss the future of dentistry in terms of marketing and AI, and how practices can stay up-to-date on everything. They touch on using AI to work smarter, not harder; utilizing the patient base you have more effectively; how to balance your practice's revenue with marketing benefits; and more. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: Kiera (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team Listeners. This is Kiera and today is an exciting day. I have a dear friend on our podcast, Ryan Gross, who used to be part of CMO Share and has now rebranded into Grapevine, doing all things fun in the marketing world. Ryan, how are you today? Ryan (00:13) Good. I'm so excited to be on your podcast. You know, we've known each other for years and kind of both seen each other's you know, how we've grown as companies in our in our careers and our journeys. So excited to be here and chat some marketing and you know, see you catch up on on what's going on in in in the industry. Kiera (00:31) Absolutely. Well, Ryan, for those who haven't heard you or don't know anything about you, tell them a little bit about now the new renamed Grapevine. kind of like how you got into marketing. I know you worked at the zoo. kind of just some fun backgrounds, but kind how did we get from where you were to where you are today? Ryan (00:46) Yeah, so my my marketing journey you know starts fairly fresh out of college. I went to work for the Walt Disney Company while I was in college and I did recruiting for them for years and then I went into the attractions industry and other areas, worked for a couple of museums, then went back to work for Disney again, working for Disney Vacation Club, doing marketing for them, and then went to work for a zoo. And so spent, you know, that that time span's about 18 years of working in the attractions industry. and then I have a a friend, a good friend, Dr. Addison Kaleen, who was saying, hey, I need some help with my marketing. And I said, Okay, let me see if I can help out. And so I just did some stuff on the side for him and decided to go out on my own and started the journey of our company was CMO Share. started that out as basically a fractional CMO for practices. you know, had a had a small group that I was working with and what happened during that time was we started to realize that on a digital marketing front, the dental like basically websites and Google ads, just the strategy at that time wasn't really what what I felt could have been the best approach to it. So we got into the website business and digital marketing business, and that's really where we've kind of exploded since then in terms of our ability to to acquire new patients that way. And then over time when we started to look at the company, we said, okay, well, we're more than just websites. We have a phenomenal data set. And that's really where Grapevine was grown is the fact that we're one of the largest holders of dental data and when it comes to marketing, phone data and operational data combined. And so Grapevine was grown out of that as now of our AI platform which kind of runs everything that we do. Kiera (02:45) That's awesome. Yeah. So let's talk about how offices are starting to like stand out in today's era with AI. I think that'd be a fun way to kind of dig into that marketing AI. I know it's a a very unique piece. So yeah, take it away on what you're seeing of like what's the future of dentistry and marketing and AI and how practices can can stay top of mind. Ryan (03:06) Yeah, so you know, I get this question often from practices and you know from from other companies is you know what is happening in the dental space when you look at from a marketing standpoint? And the thing is that I tell people e AI is an aid to what's what's out there right now and and to help you with your marketing. It's not gonna be the you know the only way to acquire new patients. but what it does is essentially is if you have enough data sets on on your market and your area and patients, what you can do is you can use that to to go after more patients who are more likely to convert and to essentially accept treatment. That's that's the goal in my opinion and how we're seeing it work the best. And so you know one interesting data point that we have is we've seen this year the amount of traffic to our practices, their sites go down, but the number of people converting through phone calls increasing. Because if you're using AI properly, what you're doing is you're getting in front of again the people who are most likely to convert for your business. And so that's that's a a powerful tool because it's you know you're getting you're working smarter, not harder. And the people who are coming into the practice, if you're doing this correctly, are more likely to spend money with you and accept that treatment. And especially now if you look at how you know a patients are navigating the dental space, you know, they're really cost conscious. And so if you aren't doing this correctly, you're gonna get in front of a lot of people who aren't gonna accept treatment. And that's a big issue that we're seeing across the board. Kiera (04:39) Yeah. So Ryan, break that down in a bit deeper. Like how do people find those data points on practice? I think they I think it's fascinating to like less people are clicking, but more converting. I feel like that's always like a backwards. It feels a little backwards from what we've been taught for so long. How do they find these data points? How do they laser focus in on these patients? Like what are some of the specifics? Like let's get nitty gritty go under the hood and what are some of those specifics that they can do? Ryan (05:02) Yeah, so you know, if you wanna look at from a higher level first from a number standpoint, you know, I always ask or I always say you need to know a few data points. You need know, first of all, I always start this, what is your phone call answer rate? You know, and that's that seems simple, but you know, I presented a few months ago to about five hundred practices and I asked people to raise their hand in the room and it was, you know, dozen or so op raise their hand if they know their phone call answer rate. Because if you look at the phone call data, that's gonna determine or give you a baseline just how well you are performing in terms of conversions of new patients. So you need to understand your phone data, how many calls you're getting, how many you're answering, first of all. The second piece of that is how many people are attempting to convert through your website. So when I say conversions in this case, I'm looking at people who are trying to call you through your website or through Google Ads, and people then who are trying to schedule online. You take those data points there and you can start to compare the numbers. you know, we we have such a large data set, you know, over ten million phone calls we've analyzed and millions of Google conversions that we can basically use our AI tool to then say, okay, here's how many new patients you should have and in your market how many you should have. but you can do this on a on a practice level too, just by looking at and start to compare those numbers and you know, use tools out there like ChatGPT or Claude or things like that to help you analyze this and then You want to also start to look at what are patients accepting in terms of production and look at your current patient numbers as well. So you kind of have to look at trends because you know we'll get questions like, Well, you know, my my schedule has holes in it. And I'll say, Okay, let's let's look at Kiera (06:43) Yeah. Ryan (06:44) your numbers, and I'll say, Well, you your new patient numbers are actually you know up five percent this month. But how so they're like, well, You know, what do we need to do? And I'm like that, you know, we gotta look at it from deeper than if you have holes in your schedule and your new patient numbers are strong, you know, it typically means that you're not having treatment accepted. And that's why the doctor's schedule is open or you have cancellations, things like that. So when you start to actually take and unpill the onion of these numbers, you can take a look at it and say, Okay, there's a correlation between. So like when we look at correlating marketing numbers, we we we again we go to Online conversions, we do phone call, the number of calls answered, and the total number of calls, then we look at the total number of new patients in production. And those three are independent numbers that if you're analyzing correctly, you can say, okay, I should have had based on my phone call, 100 new patients. based or I'm sorry, on on based on Google and my website, I should have had a hundred new patients. on my phone call I should have had ninety and I ended up with seventy. Well you can say, Okay, why did I end up with seventy when marketing and phone set I should have had ninety to a hundred and you can start to dive in and look what's going on. Kiera (07:53) Interesting. Yeah. And I think so many practices think that marketing is harder than it really is, right? But you said like how are we answering the patients that are coming through? So is it a is it a awareness? Like, do we need more people to call us? Or is it a answer? Like, let's just pick up the phone and have the people that are there. Or is it when the people actually get in our doors, are we actually maximizing them, utilizing them, following up on the treatment that we're presenting and accepting? And like, is that the area? So it's almost like it sounds there's three bench points. If people are wanting more of that awareness piece, Ryan, because I think that that's what a lot of them are looking for. They feel like they need more new patients. I agree. Look to see what you already have. And is it something that we like? Are we answering our phones enough? Are we closing the cases that we actually have? but like I have a practice, they don't have a huge patient base. Like they really don't have a large base. there's not enough for two dentists to be there. It is a little bit of a decline. And so they are really concerned because, like, yes, might have holds in the schedule. They're actually doing well. I have two practices. They're both doing very, very well. production is great, it's high, they're they're crushing it that way, but the base of patients is actually not enough to sustain two doctors. So that then becomes a like, we need a more of a volume. How do you uptick more of that volume? If, like, hey, we are doing well in our practice, numbers do look good, but we recognize this decline of patients. Like, how many patients do you recommend per GP doctor? And then what do they do if they need to get more of those patients in their database? Ryan (09:14) Yeah, so if you're like a PPO practice, you know, we look at anywhere from thirty to fifty new patients per doctor is kind of that that number. and again, we have practices that will s doctors have seen 75 new patients, we have some we're seeing 25. So it kind of just depends. But you want to look at thirty five thirty to fifty range is what we typically would see or recommend based on the data that we have. and so that's where your starting point is. But you kinda have to look at it from a you know it's not about just driving patient volume it's driving the right patients and so you know one of the things is when you're when you're when we're analyzing a practice we say okay where is your most of your opportunity and so if hygiene is booking three weeks out or a month out or whatever then your opportunity could be within emergencies and so you want to acquire the right new patients in order to have that number grow. And so again if a practice needs you know a hundred new patients to that that's kind of the goal that they have. you know you could have a percent of say 60% are hygiene, 40% are limited exams, you have to be able to understand that number before you start marketing. Otherwise what you're gonna do is you're gonna market to say like patients looking for hygiene, but you're still booking three to four weeks out when it's really the limit is that you need to. And so once you've figured out what kind of patient you need in the door, you need to be very quickly or be able to adapt to that quickly when things change. So you know maybe you bring on a hygienist and with you know in two weeks now your schedule's open to 20 more new patients. So you need your marketing bill to adapt quickly. So one of the tools that we we use and that we have is able to look at your schedule and say, okay, we see that your first emergency patient is five days away. Well, that's the conversion of having a you know emergency five days out is gonna be very, very low. People want in today or tomorrow. And so you need to adapt the marketing then to get that. So you know it's about driving the right patient and also at Times you can increase, and this is something that just doesn't get talked about enough, I think, in dentistry, especially now again with utilizing AIs. We have practices who are increasing their revenue significantly higher than their number of new patients because their production per new patient is up. So, in the last six months, we've seen the production per new patient climb to about 18 to 20 percent than it was last year, because again, we're getting in front of better patients that are for that practice. So, I think you just Kiera (11:39) Yeah. Ryan (11:39) have to kind of You gotta analyze your practice first and then build your marking around that. Kiera (11:44) Yeah, and I think like it feels like I just want the diet pill, Ryan. Like I don't want to go it like look at all this. Like I just want you to give me more new patients. I want to have enough at bats. I don't want to have to Ryan (11:51) Yeah. Kiera (11:53) go dig into that. But I think like I think Ryan's point today, and I think for a lot of practices out there is you might not actually need more new patients. You might just need to better utilize the patients you have. And they always talk about like, Ryan (12:02) Mm-hmm. Kiera (12:03) how do you actually increase a practice? Well, we either increase our patient base, we increase our dollar per like our transaction value per patient. or we like add more locations, right? There's not like a ton of different levers, but I think so many people just feel if I just get enough new patients on my books, we're good. Ryan, to that, what do you feel is the correct size? So I'm a GP doctor. How many patients do I need in my database? Like I hear the new patients I need 35 to 50, but how many do I need to have to be a healthy practice before I add another doctor? Because I sometimes think when we add other doctors, we don't actually have enough patient flow. Or we don't have a big enough base to be splitting. And I think that can also be a cause. So what do you tend to see is the correct base for patients? Like, I need this amount as a healthy GP practice. So maybe I do need more new patients. And I'm seeing obviously looking at the attrition rate too. Are we reappointing these patients? Are we keeping these patients? Cause we could have our front d…
Full show notes at the publisherKiera takes a spin on profit growth by talking about a tactic many people don't consider: strategic partnerships. This means looking at the community around you, those in your field and outside of it, and learning to refer and support one another. Kiera's tips will help even the most introverted person begin to utilize their network. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: Kiera (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera. And today I want to talk about something really fun. We talk about it in our mastermind groups with our clients. and it is like your network is your net worth. And so how strategic partnerships, you might not even be thinking this is a completely different, innovative way for you to grow your practice in a very easy, effective way. And so I'm super excited about it because a lot of times we just think that like the only way for us to grow our practice is to do more, hire another team member, or To like just I think it's that GSD, which I'm very grateful that you have. but sometimes it's not even about that because sometimes there are other people around you that can actually elevate you, can grow you, can grow your practice, and that's through your network. And so really it's going to be about what are maybe the some of the partnerships you've you've forgotten, or maybe some of the partnerships we could rekindle that actually might help you elevate. Now, for somebody who you guys might think is very extroverted human, I am very extroverted, but you better believe we were just talking about an event. I love to speak, you guys. I love to be on stage. but I am very much somebody that doesn't always love to be a porcelain doll on stage. And I know that might come as a shock for some of you, but like when I go to events, I'm like, the happy hour networking time is like my most stressful time of all of it. Like I love to have a conversation, I love to talk to people. It also stresses me out to no end. So just hearing that I recognize that what I'm about to talk to today. might be foreign for some of you. For some of you, it might be the easiest thing and you might be like, Kiera, this is a great idea. for those of you who might be a little Kiera-esque or maybe a little less Kiera and like way less extroverted, just know that you don't have to do everything. But one of these things even can help you tremendously. And I just think it's a really fun way. Again, we talk about so many things and there's so many places of like grow your practice with this, grow your practice with marketing. I thought partnerships was a really fun spin on a great way for you to possibly grow your practice, grow your net worth. And you never know Who your network's gonna bring into your place. Like, truly, my next door neighbor was Shelbi. Shelbi now is my EA, and she's absolutely incredible. there's been several people that I've just happeningly randomly met that have made my life exponentially better by being connected. And there's people that are way more connected. So, this is also a podcast for Kiera Dent. So it's all for you guys, but truly, I just want you to know that strategic partnerships really can be a benefit for you. If you're new to the podcast, hi, I'm Kiera. I hope I can be your best friend in dentistry. I truly am here to help you in whatever way possible. I am obsessed with all things Dental. Our team is obsessed with it. I've built a team of consultants that truly their passion is to make you successful. We believe that running a successful practice should be fun and easy. And so I'm so happy you're here. For all of you OGs who have been listening, thank you. I hope you just give yourself like a little squeeze. Like give yourself a little squeeze and know I'm giving you a giant hug and saying thank you so much for your support, for being on the journey. And hey, if you're obsessed with us like I'm obsessed with you, go leave us five stars because your reviews are what ultimately are gonna make us. continue to reach more people, be one of the top podcasts in the dental industry. And I just want to say thank you for making Dental A Team that I try to provide value for you. We're here all the time for you, three days a week, giving you practical, tactical tips. And we've been doing it for shoot. Like five years, six years, so long. So thanks for being on the journey. I'm obsessed with you and I hope that you remember dentistry is the greatest profession you could ever be in. Let's continue to make it great together. with that said, I hope that you know that like number one on this is we got to build referral relationships. So that's Beyond sending patients. So I know a lot of you might have relationships with specialists. So I know a lot of people listening to our GP practices, also on the specialist side. there is a doctor that works with us, one of my dear friends, and he's a periodonist, and he literally is like the mayor of our town. He knows every single dental practice. He is always at offices, he's always driving around, meeting people, taking them to dinner, knows all the best restaurants in town. And that's what specialists have to do. And I think sometimes generalists don't realize that like you connecting and knowing all of your community. really can drive like I text him at any time I'm like, hey, who's got the best hands in dentistry in our area? And he's like, you want to talk to this person? You meet somebody else. They know that person. Like he's so interconnected. And I just think like how amazing is that because he is referring back and forth. He's always looking for ways to connect somebody else. And I have found that when people come to the mastermind, that's something they tell me that they're obsessed with. So like all of our clients get together and we're like, my gosh, John, you need to go talk to Kevin and Kevin, you need to go meet Jamin. And Jamin, you need to go meet Susie, like all of them connecting together. That's the same thing that you should be doing. So this is when like a partnership is broken and maybe we're being a little bit more of a user rather than a a giver on it, is if we only reach out when we need something, or we only have minimal communication with that specialist when we're referring a patient there, or we have very little collaboration on patient care. When it's thriving of a successful partnership, it's building that relationship with the specialist. It's connecting when we refer offices, it's communicating about our shared patient. And it's creating a mutual trust. And so that can be as much as going over and saying hello. Like I have a doctor who was trying to get sleep. And I was like, get out of your office and go say hello. And she's like, I just don't want to, Kiera. And I was like, I know. I don't want to do half of this either. You guys think I enjoy being on video for the podcast? I absolutely do not, but you're welcome. Go say hello and say thank you on Instagram. Like, I hate being on video, but guess what? This is part of the name of the game. This is what I signed up with when I became a business owner. It doesn't mean you have to do everything, but I promise you, you go start to say hi, they know who you are. Think about your neighbors. Like if you know your neighbors that refer people to you. I have a neighbor, I went and met our whole neighborhood. She literally watches for my packages every single time I'm out of town. That was a great strategic partnership, if you will, that benefits my life so much. I'm able to help her out with her kids. But we want this mutually referring. It shouldn't be a one-sided space. So I will say that when I've seen doctors, especially GPs and also specialists, you've got to build this. And there was a doctor who is a specialist, he's like, Kiera. Is there any way for me as a specialist not to need my GP doctors? And I was like, unfortunately, no, we work in a we work in a referring basis. And so how do you become the person? It's like the lawyers or whomever in your town, how do you become that person that when they need a dentist or they need a referral, you are the first name that comes to mind? I want my specialist to be thinking about you as a dentist, not all the 50 other ones. Remember, people like pull out of their pocket what's familiar to them. So I want you to just know that like this is a reality, this is a space. I want you to be the trusted partner and having that, it really will drive new patients. Also, you could go look at your new patient referrals and see how many of those are coming from specialist or from referral partners. If you don't have very many of them, it might be a good c key indicator for you to say, Hey, I need to go make more friends. I need to go build these stronger relationships. It's over time. It's not something of like, and please know there's a book called The Go Giver by Bob Burry. We had him on the podcast. If you didn't listen to that podcast, go listen to it. I was a fangirl that day. but that's a book that was what I started the company on. And the go-giver is we are always giving more value than we expect. So I'm not going to meet these people hoping that they send me referrals. I'm going to find out what value can I give them, how can I support them? How can I grow their business? And in return, it always comes back to you. So I would encourage each of you to refer reach out to like one referral partner. every single month you could even like put it in your calendar. So you just have a rotating basis. Maybe it's I meet this person, and then in three months I reach back out to them. staying top of mind, doing whatever we possibly can to make their life easier. and doing it not because you need something, but because you genuinely are interested in building this amazing relationship with them. step two on this would be like surround yourself with advisors who challenge you. So it doesn't just need to be within our industry. it needs to also be within your advisory board. And so thinking about like when you make every decision alone, maybe you don't have an advisory board. Waiting until there's a crisis to ask for help or feeling isolated as an owner, that might tell you you don't have an advisory board. And so Successful owners, I see, like not just within referring partners within dentistry, but they also have a nice advisory board with their CPA, their attorney, banker. Like literally one of my friends who's a multi million pushing the billion, true friend, met him on Craigslist. I kid you not. he is now dating his banker. And I was like, How do you know your banker? Like, no one in the bank knows me. I'm not in there. And he was like, yeah, Kiera, I go make relationships with all of them. And I thought about that. That led him to somebody he's now dating. But I thought about all these people. This guy is hyper connected, multi-million. I will say his business is larger than any dental practice owner I have ever met. So knowing that, let's take notes from these very successful people, knows every single person. And he's not a super outgoing guy. He just knows he needs to have these strategic partnerships within his life. What about marketing experts? How are you in the marketing world? What about technology partners? Do you know any of them? Do you like I have another friend. Very successful business. He's yeah, I know the like CEO of HubSpot. Let me just send their name right over to you. I need to take a note from all of my friends and say, Kiera, get your booty out there and go start meeting these people. And then also consultants. Do you have a consultant? We are hyper-connected people. I know I'm like ragging on myself here. I have a Rolodex of so many people that I know, so many people we can connect you to, whether that's a dentist in the industry or the best in the best. I'm constantly betting them. You guys hear some of them on the podcast. Others I reserve only for our internal clients, but truly. Do you have these people? Because every person that you know is your bench and then they know people and they can connect you to this person. I have a really great friend who is a CPA who is billionaire family office CPA, who knows a ton of people. I had an issue with our trademark, and I just texted him and said, like, hey, who do you know that's the best in the industry for a trademark lawyer? Sent me one of the best people that I could have ever asked for and had an amazing experience. So again, don't just think about I need these people for dental patient relationships. They could like a lot of these people will actually refer to you. I can tell you how many of our dentist friends are like, Hey, I have a patient, they're moving. Well, great, who's in that area? We're gonna refer them to that dentist. That's awesome. But how many of your marketing people, how many of the people locally, your banks, you become the town mayor, people know you, you know the people in dentistry. You start to then have all these people around you that can help you make the best decisions. So, with this said, I have found that like people who have a very good advisory bench. is also our best performing practices. They're great with their CPA. They them. They want all their numbers dialed in. They've got a relationship with their marketer. They know it. They their stats. They know their numbers. I asked them. They're good with that. They know their financial advisors forward and backwards. They got a great relationship there. But they're talking to these people. And again, yes, you use them for tech. They also have a consultant. I forgot that one. Sorry guys. True. Hey, hi. We can be on your advisory board and help you out. but those people who have it, you're not just using them for their knowledge like you are. But also, these people are gonna refer to you. It is this whole like human referrals are the transactions of great business owners. And it's doing it not because I need to, but because I want to. And I'm gonna get you connected to the best of the best. And we all know each other. It's like a connecting the dots. And so for you, I just want you to realize that isolation slows growth. Collaboration is going to accelerate it. So this might not be a direct referral to your patient base, but it is a direct referral to your network faith. And so getting that place. So I want you just to think about what's in a business relationship. That you've been neglecting that you need to reconnect this quarter or add to your advisory board. I listed them off for you. If you don't have that advisory board, start working to get that advisory board for you. So you're not making every decision alone. You've got great people on it. They will refer to you, they help you out, they will connect you to the best of the best. I my CPA, he's got me connected to our insurance person. Like I'm telling you, these people are so valuable. Somebody told me that, Kiera, I love working with you because you're literally a Rolodex. Like, hey, I need help with You're like, I know the best person for this. You need people like that in your life. Just like I talk to a realtor and I'm like, who do you who's the best painter or the best electrician or the best this or that? They've got a network of people. You talk to somebody building home…
Full show notes at the publisherSo you have the basics down on practice organization and systemization, but still manage to fall short of your goals? Tiff and Kristy discuss the three most common pitfalls plaguing these offices, and how to climb out of them with clear, tactical guidance. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: Tiffanie (00:01) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. I am so excited to be here with you today. I say that every single time, and I really truly am. This is Tiffanie or Tiff or Spiffy Tiffy, whatever you want to call me, with the Dental A Team. And we are here to bring you some incredible tips and tools today. And I've got my girl Kristy here with me today. She is, on the day of this recording, my Monday morning spice up, is what we'll call it. Kristy, I just told you to, but thank you for being my Monday girl. I really love starting my week. with you, honestly and truly. So thank you for being here, Kristy. And I hope that you're excited. You came off of a restful weekend, it sounds like, which is incredible. how is how's life? DAT- Kristy (00:42) Yeah, I love that too. Thanks for being my Monday kickoff. So it's a good week. Hey, weather's cooling off. It we got some rain. It just it felt Tiffanie (00:51) Finally. Yeah. DAT- Kristy (00:53) like a staycation kind of weekend, watch movies, spend time with family, play games. So it was it was a good weekend. Yeah. Tiffanie (01:03) I love that. It is finally cooling off and it's like our fall. Arizona gets like a mini fall. It'll get warm again and the rain will DAT- Kristy (01:11) Yeah. Tiffanie (01:11) dry up. But we love it. We've got like Halloween decorations going up and it's you know early, early in the in the month right now of recording this, it'll drop sometime in October. But it's fun to see all of that stuff start churning. And then as we travel into offices, I think Kristy, this is my favorite time of year to travel. Because we don't get a lot of fall in Arizona. It goes straight from hot to like probably other people's fall, but our winter are like sixty five, you know, to fifty. DAT- Kristy (01:41) Yeah. Tiffanie (01:42) so when we travel and we get to see in offices, we love being in office with our clients. We absolutely love that. And we love getting to experience that fall. I think, Kristy, do you feel the same? DAT- Kristy (01:52) Yeah, I agree with you. We don't we don't see the leaves of the trees change color like a lot of the world the rest of the country does. So yes, it's very fun and to feel the difference in the different climates. So agree with you one hundred percent. Tiffanie (02:05) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was in Pennsylvania last week actually and yeah, and I was so excited and I usually go in December and I get there on like their first snow and I'm freezing cold and it's chaotic. But this year we decided to do the visit in September and which was perfect. And I got there and it was beautiful, perfect weather, and then it rained all night and the next morning was like fifty two degrees and I was frozen. DAT- Kristy (02:38) Pretty. Tiffanie (02:38) I could not warm up for the entire day. And all the all the ladies at the office were like, Here's Arizona. Like you're just freezing your tail off. So it was fun, DAT- Kristy (02:44) Yeah. Tiffanie (02:47) but it was cold. It gets cold real fast. DAT- Kristy (02:51) Agree, one hundred percent. Yeah. The only bad thing is sometimes we don't carve out enough time outside the offices and then we don't get to enjoy it either. But it sure is fun while you're driving in and flying in to see the different colors. So Tiffanie (03:01) Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I ended up there were some communication tower issues with a couple of airports and so my flight had ended up getting completely cancelled, which is a little concerning. flying and and whatever. But I was, you know, just hellbent on getting to that office. And so I found another route and I actually flew into JFK, which was like a two hour drive. So when I got there it was night, I didn't get to see anything. But then when I left on Wednesday, just seeing the countryside out there is so much different than anything we have on this side of the country. So driving the two hours between Pennsylvania and JFK was pretty cool. We have a we have a cool gig over here. DAT- Kristy (03:41) gonna say I love how you found the silver lining in that. Tiffanie (03:43) Yeah. Yeah. And I've got finally I found the Yankees hat that I have been searching for forever in the color that I wanted. So that and then it was at the airport. I didn't even have to leave the airport. So wins all over for last DAT- Kristy (03:57) Win win. Tiffanie (03:57) week. Yeah, it was great. and actually the content that I want to chat with you about today, Kristy, is something that came out of that visit, honestly. It was something that I've been working with as practice for a really long time. Like honestly, I think. like seven years or so, almost seven years. So we've done a lot of meetings. So these meetings continue to evolve. And we've always had some team turnover. Obviously I think everybody has team turnovers. So you can go through handoffs, you can do all of the things kind of like that back to basics. You end up doing that frequently with practices that have turnover. But this team actually Has been pretty stable aside from a couple of front office positions, and they've gotten really good at training the team. This is the first time I walked in. I like I told them I was Mona Cry because the new team members that had only been there like between two to six weeks knew ICRP and NDTR handoffs. And I was like, what the heck? This is incredible. I don't have to talk handoffs for the first time in seven years with this practice. so with all of that though, we had I really had to dive in and dig deep to figure out, okay. How do we level up from here? When you've got the basics pretty much down, but you're still, there's still just those areas where we're trying to increase, level up, or really hit those goals without thinking about it. I took a step back with them and I I made them dig in and think, what is the root cause of why we're not hitting these things if we have the systems? Like I'm not coming in every single time. And Kristy, I know you feel the same way when you've seen a practice for so long. There's Only so much you can innovate and create a new system around and create this new fun, like, okay, let's do it this way. Sometimes we've got to go backwards and say, we already have all the systems. Now we've got to figure out what is it about the system that maybe isn't helping us reach that goal. And so we kind of came up with this thought process. I came up with this thought process around it of. like the three maybe three key things. I feel like one to three is like easy for us to remember, right? So I thought, is it a knowledge gap? Like is this system, do we not know how to use it? Do we not know why? Do we not know the steps to it? So is it a knowledge gap? Or I think the biggest knowledge gap that I found with them actually, Kristy, was like not knowing what the end result was supposed to be. And maybe so then it tied into okay, knowledge gap tied into may is it a systems gap? So does the system need more information in it. Does that need to be tailored? Does it need to be leveled up itself or does it need to be recreated? And then is it an execution and accountability gap? So maybe DAT- Kristy (06:37) Mm-hmm. Tiffanie (06:38) we know how to do it, we know why it's got all the pieces, the system's clear, it's good, but we're just not using it. And there's no one like following up and holding accountable. So it really transformed a ton. And I wanted to chat about that a little bit, Kristy, because I think both of us can see How work can get so stuck. And we just we feel like maybe we're running the rat race and we're on that wheel that's just spinning. We're not actually getting anywhere. Or sometimes I describe it as I feel like I'm just like hitting my head against a wall, but still doing the thing and running the definition of insanity, not necessarily taking a look back at it. And I think a lot of our doctors, Kristy, a lot of the doctors actually that you work with that we send over to you because I think you're really good at diving into this. Thank you for that. I think that's one of those three things where they're stuck and they just don't know how to push forward. What are your thoughts, Kristy? DAT- Kristy (07:31) Yeah. Yeah, I agree with you. I like how you simplified that down to the the top three reasons because I I truly believe it it does stem from that. the knowledge systems and execution again. But I always like to say if we're not getting the results we want, let's take a step back and look. all of our systems are pretty much a recipe, right? And did we stop following the recipe to a T? Like somewhere along the line, we just threw out this step or forgot about this step or stepped over that step, Tiffanie (08:07) Yeah. DAT- Kristy (08:08) and now we're not getting the same results. So truly simplifying it and stepping back and going, is this still our recipe? And are Tiffanie (08:16) Yeah. DAT- Kristy (08:17) we following it? And if not, why not? What got in the way? Right. And then also, if we did follow it to a T, kind of back to what you said, Tiff, sometimes we might have to get a new recipe. If we followed Tiffanie (08:29) Mm-hmm. DAT- Kristy (08:30) it to T and it's not getting the results, we may have outgrown that recipe. And so coming Tiffanie (08:35) Yeah. DAT- Kristy (08:35) up and having that communication, again, just taking that step back to really look at it. And I know there's studies out there for communication. They say, like, in the high 90% of most communication is understood out of the gate. So perfecting, I mean, we do a lot of talking every day, but still. We have room to perfect even that communication. So I love how you said painting the end result, especially for our leaders and doctors. Like a team needs to really understand what is that end result we're looking for. And sometimes they don't have to have every single step lined out along the way. We just got to keep pointing to that end result. But if not, let's Tiffanie (09:24) Yeah. DAT- Kristy (09:24) pull out our recipes. Tiffanie (09:26) Yeah. I love that because you made me think actually of the recipe. I made bread yesterday. I have a bread maker. I'm not like one of those I can't, I don't have time for sourdough yet. I really want to learn how to do it. And I think it's really hard in Phoenix from what I hear. So kudos to everyone in Phoenix who's making sourdough because our weather does not do well with that. So, anyways, I have a bread maker. I have had this bread maker for I ten years. You know, eight years somewhere around there, I would say a long time. And I have always just used the recipes, right? I've always just used the recipes. And I always have a little extra flour. Like I'll pull it out and I'm like, gosh, there's like crumbles, you know, and the crust is like fine. And I'm like, whatever. Like it's tastes good, right? And the inside of the bread's great, but the the crust is just like okay and it's a little misshapen. I'm like, whatever. I guess this is what it is, right? So let me just tell you yesterday. I thought there's gotta be a freaking better way to use this stupid bread maker for the last 10 years. I've been doing the same thing from the little booklet that comes with it. I take a picture of the bread maker, I pop it into chat chat GPT, and I'm like, how do I make French white bread? Like just tell me how to make French white bread. So chat takes me through the same recipe that I've been using, but then it says, What I would do is within about 10 minutes, op like look at the at the dough, and if it looks like this, add water. If it looks like like add a teaspoon of water, blah blah blah, right? One, I didn't even know you could open the bread. I thought, don't touch it. Put it in there, don't open that bread maker. Like it's gonna like, it's like race, you know? Like, don't let the steam out. Like, do not open it. So I've never opened the bread maker while it was going. Never, 10 years. And then I open it and I'm like, lo and behold, this sucker needs more water. And I added the water, the entire family, entire family, three kids. Beyonce, me, we were like, what is with this bread? This is the best bread you've ever made. Are you kidding me? Ten years, Kristy. That is the definition DAT- Kristy (11:26) Ha ha Tiffanie (11:27) of insanity. And that's what it makes me think of. Like, are we not opening the lid of the bread maker and seeing, is it dry? Is it too wet? Does it need more flour? Does it need more water? Like we're we're making a system, putting it on pen and paper, typing it up and saying, This is the system, this is how we're gonna do it. So go execute and do it. And we execute, especially for an office, I love you, but we're really good at being like, Well, that's the system we're gonna do it because we're busy. And so we don't oftentimes like open the bread maker and be like, Well, are we getting that result? Like, is my bread lumpy? Do I have leftover flour? Like sometimes it's even like a little like flour burnt on the side, and I'm like, whatever. I guess that's how this works, right? But sometimes it's like, well, we like. didn't quite get the result that we wanted and maybe even burned a couple patients with what we were doing. But this is how we're supposed to do it. So we don't open the lid and think, what if I what if I add something, take something away? Like what if I just manipulate it a little bit to get a better result? And Kristy, your your recipe definition, that's what it made me think of because this practice, one of their goals that we set up, one of their quarterly rocks we set up for them was they really wanted to increase the percentage of new patients coming from referrals because they're spending a ton of money in marketing and they're still not generating the new patients that they necessarily want. And they're down internal referrals by about 5% from what we want them to be. Kristy, you know what we figured out? Their referral gift, they had this great idea. I love the idea for the referral gift, but no one, 17 people in the room, like no one would knew the exact verbiage or what the gift was. There's three choices for the gift. They didn't know, some of them didn't know they had the patients had a choice. Some of them didn't know that it was on the new patient paperwork. Some of them didn't know how to talk about it. And I was like, here we go. So we've got this really cool system that at some point we created, we're not getting the result that we wanted. And they almost revamped. They were like, well, maybe we need to give a different gift. And I said, well, is DAT- Kristy (13:38) no. Tiffanie (13:39) it the gift or is it that nobody Does everybody know what the gift is? Like, do you know what the options are? And most of them didn't. So we left the system, but added the knowledge to the system and the clear, tangible result. Lifted up that bread maker and we're like, there's two options here. Nobody even knew about t…
Full show notes at the publisherIntroducing the Dental A-Team YES Operating System — a framework created after looking at thousands of practices to help you have predictable growth, profitability, and freedom. Hear from Kiera about why this approach will change the way you do dentistry (and improve the way you live your life). The DAT YES Operating System: Y: You E: Earnings S: Systems and Teams Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: Kiera (00:01) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera, and I just want to talk to you guys about how we can say yes to more things. I call it the Dental A Team Yes operating system. It's truly a blueprint for profitable practices. And we've talked about it a few times, but honestly, it is just like what's a different operating model that we can go off of to have this profitable practice, but also to feel fulfilled, to have it more easy. Like great, let's do this. So I want you to know that this is a framework we created looking at thousands of practices, coming up with it, because I don't believe they're profitable practice. is created by luck. I don't. I think that you can have it and you just need the right framework, the right operating system. And then you're gonna be able to to align, to guide, and to be able to truly say yes to everything you want. So I'm gonna walk you through our YES operating system. The Y stands for You. It's all about you first. That's the very first step. E stands for Earnings and S stands for Systems and Teams. And these are three pillars that are gonna help predict have predictable growth, profitability, and freedom for you. So I hope you're excited for it. I hope you're excited to say yes to more in your life. And hey, if you're new here, Hi, I'm Kiera. Super nice to meet you. I'm obsessed with all things dentistry, so much so that my last name is actually Dent. Yep, I really am Kiera Dent. I love dentistry. I've been a dental assistant, treatment coordinator, you name it, regional manager, consulted hundreds and thousands of practices across the nation and the globe. And we are so committed to helping dentists truly reach their highest potential, empower teams, and make life and running a successful practice easy and fun again. That's what we do. I'm obsessed with it. We do startup to multi-million dollar organizations, no matter the practice size. Things are still the same. The YES model works for all of you. So I want you to know that a lot of times we're focused on production or marketing or this or that. But a lot of times if we just get our whole team aligned, everything falls into place. And I'm not saying that you have a vision and everything works. And we to put in the action. Like we got to put in the effort. Your practice does appreciate effort. But I want to help you build a very successful business that's going to support both profitability and lifestyle because you don't have to have one without the other. So the Y stands for You. This is your vision. This is you. And I think so many people skip over this and dive right into the numbers. And I purposely put it in this model. You are not going to say yes. You might say say S-E-Y. Guess what? You're not going to get everything that you want. You won't. Because if you focus on you first, like it took me forever to come up with this acronym. I kid you not. We're going to do the SPF, then we're going to do the this or that. I was like, what is it? Like, what order do these need to And then I was like, my gosh, it's YES. You Earnings Systems. Because we got to make sure that you are dialed in. And I tell everybody when you start with us as a new client. We focus on what is your vision, personally and professionally, because your business has to have it. I don't care. Like I just had a dentist I was talking to yesterday and she's like, I want to work three days a week. And I'm like, great. Let's put it on the board. Math can math. That's why Earnings comes next. But if I don't know where our North Star is, if I don't know where we're going, then we're constantly changing our goals. Growth doesn't feel fulfilling. You're running around like a crazy operator rather than running the business. This is what's happening. Like I want you to own your business, not be owned by the business. So number one is you gotta define what success looks like for you. Two, what do we look like? What's our one, three, ten year vision? We work with this, like I pull off of traction. What is it? Nothing is off the table. I don't care what it is. But you also have to realize that, like, hey, if I want to cut down to three days, are we also okay to make less money? Or is like, no, I want to work three days and make the same amount. Okay, well then maybe we need to change up our procedure match. I can't just be like, I want to make two million and work two days a week. Okay, great. Like you're doing bread and butter dentistry. Like math has to still math. So let's figure out how we can get there. Maybe you gotta get some side hustles, maybe gotta get some real estate. I don't know. But hey, everything's there, nothing's off the table. We do need to make sure we back it up with realistic numbers. I remember my financial advisor gave me a crazy goal and I was like, there is no way. Like, I don't know how I'm ever gonna do it. Guess what? You chip away, we chip away. We have that as our north star, guiding star. Everything will come into place. So I want you to know that like this works. If you're if you don't have a vision and you're not anchored of where you're going, and then second to that, your team knowing where we're going. All of this doesn't work. We are working for nothing. We're working for ego. We're working for stress. We're working for shoulds. We're working for what everybody else is posting about that they're doing. You're not working for what you actually need to do. And so I want you to know you is number one. You being fulfilled, you being taken care of, us knowing what you actually want it to be. And then I need that like tattooed on your shoulder. I need it to be put on a mirror. You've got to look at this freaking vision every single day because where we focus our attention, we're actually going to achieve it. So we can't build the right practice unless we actually know what we're building for. So I need you, if you're gonna have a profitable practice, we gotta know where our clear vision is. What does profitable mean for you? Then we're gonna back it up and make sure that it's realistic. So I want you today, if you haven't, go on a little vision building adventure with me. Let's go right. What's your one year? What's your three year? What's your ten year? Ten years from now, how old are you gonna be? Wow, that feels like a moment. Just think in 10 years, it's gonna slip by. You either can actively create it or you can passively manage it. Your choice, but I'd highly recommend that you create it. Step two is Earnings. I know, I know, you're waiting for me to get to this part. You just want to talk about this part. Don't skip step one. So Earnings. This is our profitability. So revenue alone isn't going to create your wealth. Profitability does. I don't care what your top line number is. I care what your take-home pay is. I really do. I want you to all your expenses, including paying you. I want you to have 20% left over after we pay tax and everything. Okay? So if we can figure that out, great. That's our ideal. That's our benchmark. That's what we're striving for. So what happens oftentimes is people are so obsessed about not looking at the numbers so they don't look at anything, or they're so obsessed about like just only focusing on their production number. Like I had a doctor tell she's like, I'm at two million, but her collections are at one million. And I was like, yay, I gotta be the person that tells you you have a $1 million practice, not a two million. Hi, I'm Kiera. Nice to meet you. the reality is, like, I know you don't want to hear this. But I also know that we've got to know what our true numbers are and what we're going towards. So once I know your vision, we then break it down. This is what we do with our clients. We break down what does that actually cost us? What does it cost us to run the business? What does it cost us for you to live? What is our debt services? What's the vision we're working towards? You're not gonna be there today. We know in 10 years you wanna be making three million, fantastic. We you know you wanna be at five million, fantastic. Break this down production-wise. Now it's easy for a practice because I can just plug and play, put that in there. But if we're building your personal life too, we need to know what that has. I will also say. If your business can't support that, it's not your business's fault. You either need to readjust or produce more or have another side hobby that brings income. All of it's true, but we just we gotta make sure. I had a doctor once tell like, here, I need to make more. Well, they weren't willing, like 50% of the revenue coming through they were spending on personal items. Yeah, that practice couldn't support it. Like they their lifestyle was too expensive for the practice that they were doing, and they weren't willing to do more work, they weren't willing to bring in more patients, nothing. And I was like, Okay, the math doesn't math. Like I know you want to spend this much, but like you're you're out of your budget. So and you're not willing to make a bigger budget, like we either can cut or got to produce more. It's one of the two things. or we gotta collect it. So when we look at this, I really want you to dive into knowing our numbers. We're talking our our net, not our gross production. What are our collections? You should be sitting at 98%. What's our overhead? Ideal, like I said, ideal is 50% overhead, 30% doctor pay, 20% profit. That profit then pays our debt services, leaving us at the end. I would love, love, love for you to have 20% profit, profit, profit at the end. Like that's our cash flow after everything's paid, all of it, have that hanging out. That's an optimal practice. Not all practices can achieve it, but that'd be optimal. What's our payroll? What is our our hygiene period production? What are those items? Like, let's look at this. What's our case acceptance? Sometimes it's not even an issue. Maybe we're just not diagnosing enough. But what does it tell us? So, like if I know that we need to build a $3 million practice, I then need to make sure that we're producing enough. Create that three million and then we need to make sure we're collecting enough. So, what are my levers in that? Well, levers are case acceptance, diagnosis, hygiene, and scheduling. Like those are pretty much it. And then obviously collection. That's really yeah, I can get marketing in there, but if I don't convert my new patients and we're not converting case acceptance, whoop-dee doo, like could be an issue, but can we maximize our patient base that we already have? That's a great question for us. So focus on these items so that way when we have it, we can actually make sure that the plan is leading up to our vision. You don't feel stuck. And then we also got to build in our staffing, our payroll. Like if you're doing all the pieces and you're miserable with it, well, what's it gonna cost us to hire an office manager? Or what's it gonna cost us to hire two more dental assistants or another hygienist? Let's build that into our plan. That way our practice can produce it. We can afford it. The great news is dentistry's untapped. Dentistry's untapped. So this doctor has talked to you as like, okay, your cash flow, you just need 10,000 more a month. Let's break that down. You're working four days a week, 16 days a month, that's six hundred and twenty-five dollars a day. That's a night guard. That's like a couple ceilings, couple fillings. It's nothing to make ten thousand more a month. You can do it. This is what is awesome. Like, so whatever your goal is, we just break down by your daily goal, get your team rallied, look to see where we could find this amount. You're back in business. So production is super important, but profitability gives you options. And profitability, we need to make sure that you're profitable. I don't care what your top line is. If you're not profitable and you're not paying for your life, you're miserable. So that's why what is your top line? And then what is our profitability? And do we like do those match? So what we do with our clients is we actually put them through, we build out an annual plan with them. So excited. So excited. It's in the beta role. We've been doing it. And now we actually have it like really there. Shout out to Britt. She's been working hard on this. but we go through, we look at all your expenses. What does it cost for you to have it? What is your practice producing? What do we need it to produce every month? Maybe we need to get our doctors to be a little bit higher, a dollar per hour. Like, great, you can do that. There's a lot of options. Maybe you don't want to. Great, then let's go cut. I always do it. It's like what is it? What can we really do? What's the cut? What's the actual production? Let's go. Let's live our best life. So I want you to truly like taking away from this, get your vision, then review your profit margins every single month. Get into it. Should review it every single day. But I want you looking at the profit margins, not just your production numbers. Then this leads us to the S, the Systems and Team Development. This is going to be your engine portion of this, okay? So based on our vision, then what did the numbers tell us? Now it's our systems and team. Based on whatever our numbers tell us, that's a system we're gonna go put into place. It might not need to be all the systems. Everybody's like, well, what systems do I put into place? I'm like, I don't know. What's your vision? What do the numbers tell us? Put that system into place. I know you want it. I know you want all the systems, but why? You're probably doing so many things great. If our vision is this mount, our numbers tell us this, we can fix a lot through a morning huddle, we can fix a lot through handoffs. We can fix a lot through just your hygiene department. We can fix a lot through your production. We can fix a lot through your leadership meetings and how you guys are doing it. We can do a lot through hiring and onboarding. I guess those are all important, but like what does it tell us? And then also what are your pain points? This is also where we're developing the team. I found that so many people focus only on the doctor. And I'm like, cool, that's fun. But why don't we focus on you as well? Like, let's make sure that the team is elevated so you, doctor, don't have to go tell that team everything to do. We literally coach your team for you. We create office managers. We build leadership teams. We teach your team how to talk about hygiene. What do we do when we got a bloody period…
Full show notes at the publisherKiera is joined by Sean Hamel, CEO of Art of Dental Marketing, to talk about … yup, dental marketing! Sean goes through why dentists struggle so much with messaging, what the right language for patient referrals is, how to make your practice stand out from that other practice 0.2 miles away, and a ton more. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: Kiera (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera. And today I have a very special friend back on the podcast, Sean Hamel. He and I actually worked together. He worked in Dental A Team for a hot minute. he is a CEO and founder of the Art of Dental Marketing. He is here to talk about all things of what works, what doesn't work. I shoot, guys, you guys know marketing is my Achilles heel. So I get really smart people in the industry to come on the podcast, talk about it. So, Sean, welcome to the show. How are you? Sean Hamel (00:25) Thanks, Kiera. Good, thank you. It's always good to see you. I that was when when was the Dental A Team kinda overlap? That was like four or five years ago now. Crazy how time flies. Kiera (00:33) I know. It yeah, because we were doing an event. So I think it was like three, four years ago, and we were going through like Sean Hamel (00:38) Mm-hmm. Kiera (00:38) a rebrand and I still have emails from you and like campaigns that we worked on together. So it's fun Sean Hamel (00:44) cool. Kiera (00:44) that we've actually like worked together and now here we are. You work with all the dentists too. So yeah, but it's been a hot Sean Hamel (00:49) Absolutely. Kiera (00:50) minute and now here we are podcasting again together. So here we are. Sean Hamel (00:54) Absolutely, always good to see you. Kiera (00:56) Likewise. Okay, Sean, for those who don't know you, tell them a little bit of who Sean is, how did the Art of Dental Marketing come about, and w like why you we should even listen to you today. Like basically pitch yourself. Sean Hamel (01:07) Absolutely. I know there are so many dental marketers. It seems like every day there's like 20 or 30 more, probably more than that. But I started dental marketing about 15 years ago. I was purely accidental. I have a degree in marketing, graduated, and in doing that, got a job it for a dental financial services company basically running their marketing and was meeting a lot of doctors and making friendships with a lot of doctors. And nobody tells you when you graduate school with a marketing degree, but you suddenly become all of your friends and family's like resident marketing expert. And Kiera (01:41) Yeah. Sean Hamel (01:41) so one of my buddies was graduating from dental school, and another buddy of mine was having some issues with SEO in his practice. And so they just kind of asked me some general questions. long story short, helped them choose some solutions, wasn't really amped about any of them, but you know, tried to help them make the best decision they could, and they didn't get great results. and so I started helping them and using story-based marketing, which is a big piece of what makes ADM different, we were able to get them really solid results and they gave me a lot of grace to try things. And over the course of doing that, we were able to get really good results for them. And so in doing so, other dentists that were their peers and friends and things started asking, you know, who's doing your marketing? And so I started to get more and more clients. to now, you know, 14, 15 years later, we've worked with hundreds and hundreds of doctors. and I travel all over the country speaking and teaching doctors about why dental marketing largely doesn't work. most of the time here it's a messaging problem. But why dental marketing doesn't work, why no matter who you seem to hire, you can't really get results. and also just kind of talking about why the industry is tilted in a way that it's not really set up for doctors to be successful and they have to kind of learn as they go how to vet, how to properly seek out help. And then even how to monitor the people they're paying to help them to actively get results. Cause that seems to be the biggest issue for doctors is I hire seven marketing companies and nobody can Kiera (03:10) Mm-hmm. Sean Hamel (03:11) get results. Kiera (03:12) Okay, so dig into it. You pitched me, well, I'll listen to you, Sean. Why doesn't cause selfishly for myself, I'm in the same boat. I'm like, my gosh. Sean, I looked at my numbers. This is gonna be fun for you. We decided to do a revamp. I've done this twice. So this is Sean Hamel (03:25) Mm. Kiera (03:26) year two that I'm trying this. Like I did it a couple of years ago and then I was like, forget that. That was a really that was a five hundred thousand dollar mistake. This year I'm up to a Sean Hamel (03:32) Mm. Kiera (03:32) seven hundred and fifty thousand dollar mistake. Like I don't know if it's Sean Hamel (03:34) Mm. Kiera (03:35) a full mistake, but it is like it just feels like this bottomless pit in marketing. It's like Just keep pumping more money into it and hope and pray something works out. And then you re-pivot the strategy. And then it's like, okay, it's gonna take three more months to do it. So I am equally piqued. We have a great CRO on our team now that actually I've seen more results than I've ever seen. But it's like Sean Hamel (03:52) Mm. Kiera (03:54) that's hundreds of thousands of dollars. Like I just listed Kiera's dirty laundry on the podcast 500,000 two years ago, 750,000 this year. Our marketing expenses are up by 350,000. So enjoy that. Sean Hamel (04:04) Mm-hmm. Kiera (04:04) Like those are some big numbers. And so I don't want any of you dentists out there being like, my $50,000 marketing is expensive. Listen, all y'all, I know what this is. And also don't tell me consulting's expensive. Like I've gone through, I paid 250,000 for Tony Robbins. Like there is expensive consulting and then there's also just like it is just a a good fee. So Sean, talk to us. Talk to me. Hi, I'm Kiera. I'm your I'm your client today. Tell us why doesn't marketing work and how do we actually get it fixed? Sean Hamel (04:29) Well, and and d for dentists specifically, you know, dental is so unique. your issue with which is selling two dentists is a lot of times a messaging problem too. but as far as it relates to dental practices specifically, I talk about what I call the cycle of mediocrity, but it basically is what I've kind of drilled down over over a decade of doing this, working with hundreds of offices. And I talk about it in depth. I'll kind of give you the the cliff notes because it is a very long conversation. I know we're trying to stay Kiera (04:59) Okay. Sean Hamel (05:00) like under 30 minutes here. But with dental practices, largely what happens is everybody looks the same. So if you pull up, you know, five dental practices, everybody looks the same. They say the same things. They're hiring marketing companies that are selling very like generic templated things. So everybody looks the same. It's all hyperclinical. You know, everybody's trying to to chase the same people. While they're all looking the same. And so because of that, Kiera, the only way the marketers know how to differentiate the businesses is with discounts. So Kiera (05:30) Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Sean Hamel (05:31) the the practices, because everybody's so close together and they're all saying the same stuff, they get locked in these price and proximity battles. So they're fighting over how can we how much can we outdiscount the practice next to us? They're being advised by industry leaders, industry leaders to do Kiera (05:46) Mm-hmm. Sean Hamel (05:47) new new patient specials constantly. And then a lot of it too is just, hey, this practice is 0.7 miles from my house. This practice is 0.9 miles from my house. So Kiera (05:55) Totally. Sean Hamel (05:56) you have you have those kind of decisions happening, but you get locked in price and proximity battles, which leads to what I have kind of coined as what I call the freebie trap. But the doctors get conditioned that they have to give away what they do in order to be successful. Kiera (06:09) Totally. Sean Hamel (06:09) It's not super helpful because that means you got to do more dentistry to make up for it. And when you're battling on price, that's all you're giving people. That's the only thing they have to make a decision off of. But those price and proximity battles, getting in that freebie kind of mindset and constantly giving things away, that brings in non-desirable patients. And the non-desirable Kiera (06:28) Right. Sean Hamel (06:29) patients are the one everybody's complaining about, right? They take a chair time, they don't have credit, they're not going to accept treatment, they come in for the special and they leave. And so that puts a lot of pressure on the practice because dental practices, as you know, you have to see somebody repeated times before you really start monetizing that relationship. But dentistry is a relationship business. And so the one and duns put a lot of stress on the practice, and that starts to cause burnout and frustration on the team and the doctor because they're constantly chasing this new patient number, but they're still not making any money. They're busy, but they're not profitable, which is a huge problem. Kiera (07:01) Mm-hmm. Sean Hamel (07:03) So from there, the burnout starts to set in and the doctor goes out and starts throwing up Hail Marys, hoping to get help, like you are, hoping to get help. I'm spending all this money, nothing's working. And this is where, Kiera, the cycle mediocrity, it's multifaceted. So the dentists are kind of their own worst enemy sometimes. The marketing Kiera (07:19) Right. Right. Sean Hamel (07:20) companies, I'm not saying marketing companies are nefarious, but a lot of people that get into dental marketing are not qualified to be here. And then the industry has kind of pitted itself in a bad spot for dentists. And the reason why I led with that is because at this point where that burnout comes in, the doctors are going out to events and study clubs and groups and they're trying to get help. And the marketers that are being put in front of them largely It's not there's no vetting of their work being done. It's who bought the diamond sponsorship package. That's who's gonna get up on stage and they can say whatever they want. And there's so many conferences that I go to and I hear people say things from the stage and I'm like, that is factually incorrect. That's not how that works anymore. That's not true anymore. Don't want to get into that today, but there's no vetting going on. And so the doctors are coming out and they're trying to get help to be profitable, right? To be chairside less, make more money, not take the wear and tear on their bodies, hit their goals. you know, pay for their family vacations, put their kids through school. And there's all these marketers entering the space that are promising them the world, but there's no accountability. And Kiera (08:21) Right. Sean Hamel (08:22) so because of that, the doctor hires the next marketer, hires the next marketer. And this here is where the cycle comes back around, is every marketer they hire largely is doing the same stuff. So it's the same messaging, the same websites. They're promising them the world, but they're not actually doing anything to be able to hit that goal. And if they don't hit the goal, there's there's no repercussion if they don't. But they hire the next marketer, promises them the world. They go through all the change and transition. They kind of go through that high of, hey, this is gonna work. It's new, it's exciting. And then things start to slow down. The phones slow down, right? All the growth slows down because the messaging is off, and we can get to that in a second. But they start, they call the marketing company and they say, hey, we're not busy, or hey, this isn't working, or hey, these leads aren't good. And the marketing company usually will blame the front desk. Or they'll Kiera (09:06) Mm. Sean Hamel (09:07) say, Hey, why don't you go you're not you're not busy? Well, let's do a thousand dollars off in in Vizaline or whatever. And so they bring the discount up and it starts back over. So no differentiation leads to this race to the bottom discount mentality, which brings the patients that they don't want to see anyway. The patients put stress on the practice, the doctor starts throwing hail mares to get help, hires the next marketer who's not vetted or anything like that, comes in, promises the world doesn't do anything, aren't busy. So the marketing company decides, well, let's just do a discount. And that's the loop. And that's why practices hire seven companies and can't ever get results. Kiera (09:41) So I agree with you. And that is a good way to put it in there. And as you were saying that, I say it sometimes. I'm like, practices are like dental Tinder. Like, guys, you're just like, Sean Hamel (09:49) Yeah. Kiera (09:50) you look like everybody else and they just keep swiping. Same thing when you're placing ads out there to hire team members. I'm like, you can't be dental Tinder. You gotta like stand out somehow. Like in my mind, I was like, all right, it's all black and white. Like, how do you stand out as hot pink or how do you stand out as hot blue? Like there's gotta be something in your right. Like a lot of times it is proximity. And so I tell a lot of doctors, like, Hey, when you take over a practice, they're probably not gonna wanna leave you because they don't wanna go find somebody else. Like it's much easier for them to like you and stay where they're familiar rather than going somewhere else. And that's also the tricky thing is because unless I've got more people moving into the area or I have a very disgruntled patient, they're kind of creatures of habit. Like switching dentists is not fun. And so that's another piece that we have. So you just you laid it out perfectly. What's the solve? What's the solution? Like how do people get out of that? Because I think you're not wrong. And I will say that that's something Whether it's right or wrong, I got so annoyed. I went to so many conferences and I, my gosh, early, early on, I signed up with a marketing company. I spent 80,000 on that company. And I remember like almost bankrupting the company. I was it was just and they're like, just keep going, just keep going, just keep going. And I'm like, I don't have any more cash. Like, we're gonna go under. And it was the most stressful thing I'd ever done. But it does feel like like almost like gambling, like one more pull, one more pull, one more pull. Like maybe this one will be Sean Hamel (11:06) Yeah. Kiera (11:06) big money. and I remember it is like Sean Hamel (11:07) Yeah, I call it I call it the finding Nemo, the just keep swimming thing. But yeah. Mm-hmm. Kiera (11:11) Seriously though. Like I was like, I just felt like I was just like pulling the slot machine, hoping and praying big money was coming. but it didn't. And it was that was the early on learnings. Clearly, I keep learning them. but how do people get out of it?…
Full show notes at the publisherHow great would it be, having systems that sail smoothly no matter who is sick, who changes positions, who quits, who [insert out-of-the-blue incident here]? Tiff and Dana talk about what exactly to implement in your practice so that communication flows. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Tiffanie (00:01) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. We are so excited to be here with you today. I say it every single time. and I have Miss Dana here with me. And Dana and I have been podcasting together for what feels like an eternity at this point. It's been a long time. she is an OG with me at this point. And if you ask Kira what OG means, please ask her next time you see her in person. Say what does OG mean? and she will tell you it's oldie but goodie. And so that is our company. lingo for OG at this point. And Dana, you are my girl. You know I love podcasting with you. We have done so many podcasts. We were actually just talking about fam here. Like how many times can we take these different perspectives of these similar topics? And I'm like, gosh, yes, I agree. And it's like we we talk about such similar things, but Dana, I do think you and I do a really great job. You kind of coax a different side you and I both come from different angles in so many different ways. So if my point of that is if you're here today and you hear this topic, you hear what we have to say and you're like, gosh, I I think I need a little bit more, do a quick Google search. I call it a Google search. It's just a a search on our website. on the podcast section of our website, if you type in any of the keywords that you hear today, there's gonna be more podcasts that pop up. It's maybe I think I could say like similar content, but that even feels wrong. their topics you guys that we have just poured into and poured so much information out into the world because we want you to have everything that we have in our brains in your pocket. So make sure if you feel like gosh I just needed a little bit more go search it or if you like these were fantastic and what else are they talking about? What does Tiff mean? Go search on our website TheDentalATeam.com there's a whole podcast section there's a little search bar there. Go do yourself a little search and you can find just hundreds of topics. So Dana, thank you for being here with me today. Thank you for always going rounds with me. and for prepping ahead of time so that we can see kind of where we want to take this, even though who knows where it'll go, you know, it could just change on the drop of a dime. But how are you this morning, Dana? DAT-Dana (02:11) Doing good. And I tip, I think that's my favorite part of podcasting with you. It's like we can come in with like best laid plans and then we just get to talking and it just starts to get natural and it goes where it needs to go. and you're right, while like maybe there's some similar topic in there, I do feel like there's always a new angle to it, there's always a new consideration in it. And so I love that you say, hey, if you want to deep dive, check out the other ones that are around the same top like topic point, because It might not just be you and I, right? It might be you and someone else. It might be Kira that talks about it. And we all have just just different like skill sets and backgrounds that I think puts a little twist on everything. So I'm excited to be here with you. Tiffanie (02:49) Yeah. I totally agree. I love how you said that. And I agree. And honestly, in the morning I'm like, gosh, we had a podcast. And then as soon as we get here, I'm like, I just get to hang out with Dana for an hour. So this is kind of cool. I definitely need this time with you. So thank you for being here and thank you for always having a fresh perspective. for our listeners, if you've never met Dana, please go check. Her out, come to the events, come see her in person, listen to all of her podcasts. Cause Dana, you really do have an incredible mind, and I love picking it. So I'm gonna pick your brain today. And marketing gives us some really cool topics, and and I love like we talked about they'll they like put a spin on different words and you know, similar topics, but it's stated differently. The titles it's titled something really cool and catchy, and I think speaks to the fact that we do have really I mean, dental is like it's dental. Like how how exciting can we get here? You know? But we really do have exciting takes on so much stuff. And something we've been working on, our our doctor's only mastermind actually tomorrow is kind of a similar topic, Dana. You mentioned this that like what if the doctor's not there? So something our company's been working on with our clients internally, and then it's transitioning now into outpouring messages here on platforms like this is really prepping the business. for when something changes, when maybe a doctor's out, and that could be vacation, that could be gosh, my doctor, when I was like, gosh, Dana, I think I was twenty maybe. I remember coming in after Thanksgiving. It was it was the Monday after Thanksgiving. And my doctor is like on a scooter, like those little like what you know, his knees up scooter. And I'm like, what happened? And he had an A T V accident over Thanksgiving break and he had like broken his ankle and it ended up being this whole thing. He was on that scooter for like eight months 'cause he had have multiple surgeries. It got infected. And I remember standing there at t nineteen, twenty, however old I was, looking at him and going, What if that was your hand? Like I knew in that moment how like serious this could be. So I think we think about plan for your vacations, but what about all the things that we can't plan for? Illnesses, you know, we've got hygienists that have kids that have school, you know, things that they have to attend or breaks. Like we've we've got a an industry that's full of a lot of moms and a and a lot of illnesses. I know I was sick last week because we had a kid come home with something, you know. So I think Dana, to your point of our of our conversation earlier, it's really like systems that keep working when plans change, but sometimes it's not even just something falling off of the schedule. Sometimes it's that we're short staffed or without an entire doctor because something has happened. So Dana, when you when I we read that topic and you you looked at it, I said it earlier. What did you think of? If you had to prep a practice, a dot a client was like, gosh, things are changing or something changed, what would be your go-to method for helping them prepare for systems that can withstand change. DAT-Dana (05:59) Yeah. Yeah. And I think that dentistry is still very and I love it. Some of my favorite offices, you know, I walk in and they're like, I I don't want to do dentistry without this assistant, right? Or I don't ever Tiffanie (06:09) Yeah. DAT-Dana (06:09) want to be in business without this, you know, office manager. And I think that dentistry still can be a little bit people dependent Tiffanie (06:17) For sure. DAT-Dana (06:17) versus system dependent. And I think we've had to talk about this a lot lately, because just a hiring climate. a little bit of a hiring drought in some areas of dentistry and just in some areas of the country, it's been harder Tiffanie (06:31) Yeah. DAT-Dana (06:31) to I think hire and replace team members too. So I feel like getting practices to see that we have to have systems in place that no matter who is there, no matter how many team members are there, we can kind of pivot every day and and certain things continue to go on. you know, especially like those patient experience things or the patient flow pieces and closing treatment, right? Those are things that have to go on, no matter how many people we have in the practice or or who is there or what the schedule looks like. And so I think that it's something we're having to work a lot with offices. And I think it's great to be able to have a platform like this to talk about how we do that. Tiffanie (07:10) Yeah, I totally agree. You said, in there like case acceptance and filling the schedule essentially, right? And I something that that makes me think of is the importance of communication. Right. We we call it handoffs. Everyone says, you know, what's your handoff or how do we do a handoff? What is you what is the verbiage we should use with a handoff? And I think if we narrow it down into like the simple word of communicate, making sure that we're all speaking to each other, it's the biggest space that leaves room for error and I have I have a practice and I love them dearly and that doctor he constantly is saying like how do we how do we mitigate the chaos? How do we mitigate the chaos every day? Why is it crazy? Why are there, you know, cases are missing and schedules falling apart and phones are ringing off the hook. People are calling in and I'm like, gosh, it's so simple, it's annoying. Because we want it to be this grandiose, like difficult thing, but it's so simple, it's annoying. We just need to talk to each other more. We need to say what's in our our brain to one another and prep and plan together. If everyone knew that Joanna called out this morning and that the assistance team were short staffed, everyone could pick up the pieces in their area and help. But most of the time, I feel like the hygiene department doesn't even know. that there's a dental assistant missing until sterile's backed up and they're like, What is going on? And they're like, Where's Joanna? Where has she DAT-Dana (08:38) Mm. Tiffanie (08:38) been all day? It's like three hours into the workday and the assistants are running ragged, or vice versa. Like people just we're not communicating enough. What do you feel, Dana? DAT-Dana (08:48) Yeah, I agree with you and I feel like it's it you are you are it's such a silly Answer, right? Because the everybody wants it to be this thing that, like, I would have never thought of that, right? Or my gosh, that's like just this so far out there idea. And you are 100% right because a team that is on the same page or a team that communicates throughout the day, it doesn't matter if you normally sit in that seat. It doesn't matter if you've just jumped in. If I'm giving you all the pieces that you need and I'm setting you up for success, it doesn't matter if it's something that you do day in and day out, or if you just are Johnny on the spot because you happen to be free in those five minutes. Tiffanie (09:24) And where do you think that the easiest space is, like, systems wise? So if we turn this into, okay, docs, you're harping on me, communication is too broad. You want systems, like what are two systems that practices could focus on every day that regardless of who's there, whatever whatever the change is, they stick DAT-Dana (09:42) Yeah, I think the two biggest tools for communication and practice are route slips. because there's just a lot of information already pre-ready there. So that like if you're a new person on the team, if you're a temp on the team, if you are covering a position you don't normally cover, pretty much a lot of the patient information to continue at least that patient flow is on the route slip plus there's space that you can write things down that you can take your own notes that you need to give to the next person. So I would say route slips and then secondary, like you already mentioned, Tiff, I think handoffs are just a huge piece communication tool that just makes sure that the patient flow continues as well as every step of the way we're all on the same page and the patient feels it too. Tiffanie (10:24) Yeah. Yeah, I think that's smart. And I I love the route slips because I think makes it easy to win. Like all of the information that you need is on there. And so in the case of a hygienist being out and now we've got a temp hygienist or Joanna being out and everybody's scattered, like all the information is already written down. And a lot of practices, and I'm not knocking this if it works for you, great. They want they use messaging systems, right? And so great that works too. But the handoff the paper forces that communication and the verbal communication to one another is what creates that connection, in my opinion. Right. So we've we've got to be able to connect with one another in order to bridge that gap. but as you were talking to Dana, as you were saying route slips, I also thought morning huddles. And I think you do a stellar morning huddle routine, like you really get practices excited for them and I know you've got a few tricks up your sleeve, but how would you go about a practice who doesn't do morning huddles and they're like, gosh, Dana, like we are just skirting in as like on time. Like I have an office, I love them dearly, that we cannot get that associate dentist there to save our lives of ten like she's ten minutes after her patients, right? So like, but this morning huddle can help I think mitigate change as well because you thought r you said route slips and I thought, I maybe we pass them out the morning. How would you help a practice in implement morning huddle? DAT-Dana (12:00) Yeah. And honestly, to be you can have a really stellar morning huddle in 10 minutes, right? So I think that that's that's a little bit of a misconception in practice. They're like, well, then we need to come in 30 minutes earlier than we typically do. No, no, no. We're looking for a window of about 10 minutes. and in that it's like we just want to celebrate what went really well the day before, right? We want to look at our schedule, patients that are on the schedule. Is there any pertinent information? I one of my biggest, I don't want to say pet peeves because I understand it, right? When I go into a practice, but I'm like, all right, it's morning. huddle and I'm like super pumped and I get there and we're just like reading the schedule. Like we can all read the Tiffanie (12:33) Yeah, they're like a f Dio on number fifteen at eleven. DAT-Dana (12:36) schedule. Like this, like just to have a morning huddle as like a schedule read, I think we can all just put our eyeballs on it and Tiffanie (12:43) Mm-hmm. DAT-Dana (12:43) like see that this is what we're doing. So I think just like pertinent information would stand out. Do we have you know any concerns for the patients that are going to be in our chair anything that everybody needs to know. Like Maybe that lab case in the afternoon isn't here yet, and we need to get on the phone and we need to call them, right? And we need to make sure they said noon, we need to make sure it's going to be there at noon, right? So those types of pieces. and I also like morning huddle just as like you said, Tiff. Like if Joanna's not going to be here today because she is out sick, are there any updates that are pertinent for today? We don't discuss issues in Morning Huddle. We don't, but if there's something that's affecting the schedule today, I want it discussed in Morning Huddle. And if we can, which I love because I just feel like Morning Huddle is the only time in the day where we're really all together and we're really all kind of focused. I love to build in a culture piece just because I feel like again, it's the it…
Full show notes at the publisherPractice success doesn't always equal personal life happiness. Kiera talks about the Yes Success Model, and how to align your business goals with your personal life goals, because they're allowed to complement each other (and should, frankly). She asks probing questions that'll get you thinking about alignment and finding the right motivating factors to keep going. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: Kiera (00:01) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera. And I am so excited because I love today's topic. And I hope that it just gives you a filtering and a process of how do I like actually make like growth decisions and life goals and like what is that long-term vision clarity? Like to me, it's such an empowering topic for you. And I'm so excited because I think that so many practice owners, when I meet them or we work with them, is they actually build a successful practice that they don't want. I've done it. I built a business that I didn't freaking want to work in. And I've said, like, hey, if I If I actually like didn't have to work here and I didn't own this, would I keep working here? And if I can't say yes, then we might want to rework this. and honestly, growth without direction can leave you with more stress, more responsibility, and less freedom. And so today I just want to work on like sometimes bigger isn't always better. Sometimes like we just need to be better aligned is better. So bigger isn't always better. Doesn't mean bigger is wrong, but better aligned is where we're actually trying to go. So I want you guys just to know like a lot of owners feel stuck. Even after they hit success. Like I had a podcast a while of like the empty millionaire. Like I thought like if I hit a million, everybody says this and I was like, Yeah, right, I'm not gonna be that person. No, I remember being like, So this is it, huh? Like, all right, we've hit a million. Cool. Do I love my life? No. Like it was this wild thing. And so, like, why do we still feel stuck after hitting success? And how to create this vision that guides a lot of your decisions to where you have a filtering process of yes or no? Like I think about Willy Wonka and the golden egg, like yes, no, good, bad, like giving you kind of that framework to know. And then like what are some questions you should be asking before your next big move? So I think it's really fascinating because when we work with a client and we get on our first call, I'm not here to say like, what do you, what do you want to produce? we call it the yes success model and the why stands for you. The number one thing I want to know is like what what's the life that you're trying to build? I say it often I will say it here. Your business should serve your life, not the other way around. And I've gotten it wrong for so many years where I've given up so much of my life to serve the business. I remember being like, I think back to when I first started the company and Jason and I would be hanging out and we were literally floating down the river. I kid you not, like we're rafting tubing, and I'm on my phone answering emails. And that was an aha moment for me of like here, I think you're doing this wrong. Like you need to freaking shut it off and like be present. And I'm building like that's not the life I want. I don't want to be working seven days a week. I don't want to be psycho. I don't want to be stressed out of my mind. So like I think it's really powerful. Like I call it the yes success model. You are number one pillar. Then it's earnings and then it's systems and team development, not the other way around. If I mess up on you and your life and we are building a practice and you're not fulfilled at the end, we have failed. And that is my definition of it. So I don't want you guys chasing someone else's version of success. I don't want you chasing more locations or operatories or production. I want you doing this because this lights you up and this is your vision and that not because you feel like that's what you should be doing. We're gonna stop shooting on ourselves. I have a practice, they produce about four million a year. They're at a 35% overhead, they work four days a week. People are like, you need another practice, and they're like, we don't want to. This is the life we want. And I think sometimes being that stalwart in your vision is really, really critical and pivotal. So today I just want you to like. realize that vision planning, like I talk to offices all the time, if your team's not following, it's because you don't have a strong enough vision. If you're not happy in your life, it's because you don't have a strong enough vision of where you actually want to go. So I want you to really have these growth decisions that move you closer to the life you actually want, not further and further away from that. So number one, what are we gonna do? Hi, we're Dental A Team. I'm obsessed with you. I'm here to help you have the dreamiest life you could ever imagine. I love, love, love helping dentists and teams come together to live their best life. And I really want to empower you, CEO dentist out there, the dentist who is the CEO of their life and their practice. I call it life and business on purpose. Like let's GSD together. So step one is let's define success beyond production. And for me, this is really hard. I remember there was a dentist I was talking to, and he's like, But Kiera, production is the only thing we can compare against. It's the only actual number. You're right. There is no number of like, what's my fulfillment measure today? Am I like 10%, 20%? There's nothing in there. So it's really, really hard because sometimes we're like, well, my production number is the only thing that I compare with all the other dentists. But I have a dentist who's making a million a year, like he's producing a million a year, works three days a week, and loves his life. There is no way for me to say, like, what's his success measure? I can know what his production is and like, hey, I got an office over here doing 29 million. But we got to define our success beyond production. So production's a result, it's not a vision. So I really want you to have like it's hard because like setting revenue goals without lifestyle goals is a miss. Saying yes to every opportunity is another miss. Feeling successful on paper but exhausted in reality, that's another miss. So we pivot it and sometimes I feel like this is the time where like pretend I'm your fairy godmother and I'm just gonna wave my magic wand for you. Like if you had no stressors, you didn't feel like anybody was judging you, no parents, no spouse, no family, no friends, no no, I don't know, like mean girl or mean guy sitting on your shoulder, how many days do you actually want to work? What kind of dentistry do I actually love doing? When do I want to retire? Or like maybe scale back a few days? What about my family to look like? How much freedom do I actually want? Notice I didn't put in there any dollars in there because if we can focus on vision first, dollars come second. If I know what your vision is and what your life is, fantastic. We can go build. You guys, dentistry is untapped. It's freaking awesome. Like, so let's just build. Like, what does that look like? And you might realize, like, I don't know, Kiera. And so I was actually working with a friend this last weekend. And he's like, Kiera, what do you do when you don't know where you want to go? And I was like, Well, step one is we got to have a little guiding star. Like, let's just do five or 10 years from today. What's your age and what do you want that to look like? You could go further and you could say, when I'm 90, what do I think I'd want to be doing right now? Like when Kiera's reliving her life at 90, sitting on her rocking chair with hot pink hair, like it's actually cutting candy. Pink, you're welcome. for that visual, like, what do I want my life to look like? So, whichever one's gonna work for you. Sometimes a tenure for me, I just need like a little glowing light up on the hill. That's written in pencil. It doesn't have to be permanent. But what do I want that life to look like? And most people usually do it based on one of three things. It's either going to be a dollar amount, which is totally fine. It's going to be on a fulfillment, like what's going to drive you, or it's going to be on a purpose. So, like for me, massive impact. I drive so hard because I want to impact and serve every dang dentist out there. So share this podcast with somebody. Help me on my goal. Like, I'm obsessed with helping dentists have their best lives. And so like that drives me literally in the middle of every vision board, unintentionally, it says massive impact. Like, what can I do that's gonna leave a stamp and a mark on so many people's lives? And so I built the podcast for free because it was a way for us to reach more people. I hope we brighten your day. You're welcome. Go leave us a review for it and tell more people about it so more people we can serve. Like genuinely, that's what it was. But that's like in the middle of my goal board. So for me, it's impact. Like numbers are super fun and numbers drive me hard. And I'm not here to say like numbers are wrong. I am highly numbers driven. But like, what's the impact? That's gonna motivate me so much more. Like serving 500 dentists and then serving a thousand dentists. Like that to me is something of like a churn. I want to make 40 millionaires in my next lifetime. Like, how do I do that? Like the next decade of my life. So, like, I look at this, but also like, what is the life that I want? What's the trade-off? They can be hand in hand. So I really want you to look at like what is it? I told you about that office that I've got this 3.5, 35% overhead. They don't want another practice. They literally want to live. They don't want another associate. They have great, it's all the systems are done. They don't want to deal with the headache of that. And I'm like, fantastic. You want fewer clinical days. I've got another doctor. He's like, Kiera, I want to go play a pickleball. I used to like have a lake house and all these other things. Like, I want it simple. I want to play pickleball. And I want to be able to hang out with my family. Your lighthouse of 10 years or your motivator, it can be a little fuzzy up there. It doesn't have to be perfect. But getting that vision out of you is something I'm obsessed with because your practice should support your life and not the other way around. And once you get your identity outside of success, you're gonna realize like, and hey, guess what? If that practice goes away tomorrow, are you still a human? Are you still happy? If not, we've got to figure out because you need to be a full, complete person and not just a dentist producing. So I don't want you building a practice that you want to eventually escape. I want you building a practice. Of what like I'm so excited and like I love that part of my life. and it doesn't mean we have to have every day great, but we want to love this part of it. So I'd really love for you to write down what success looks like for your life first and then your practice. Also be careful because I found like for me, I used to have a definition of success that was really hard to achieve. Tony Robbins said it really well. He says, We make it really easy to feel bad about ourselves and really hard to feel good. So like for success, you might be like, Have to make a million every year and I have to drive this kind of car and I have to live at this type of house and I have to do this and this and this and this and this and this and this. Well, you're never gonna hit that. You made it so impossible for you to ever feel happy and successful. And I'm not here to say like lower your goals and dreams, but like, is a million really gonna make you happy? Is living in that house really gonna drive you for your happiness and your thing, or is that just something you feel like you should do because that's what people do? Just a question to ask. I want you to write down what success looks like for you, and I want you to make it easy for you to hit success. It's not your production. Success for your life. What does that look like 90 years, 10 years from now? Whatever it is, but let's write that down and let's get that going. Okay. Number two, I want you to filter every opportunity now through this vision. So this hurts. This is hard. This is the discipline side. Not every opportunity is right or a good opportunity. This year, gosh, I don't have my bracelets on. I usually wear bracelets. this year I actually have a bracelet that says no. To remind myself that saying no is equally as important as saying yes. Does that actually fit and fulfill the life I'm building? Or does it not? I have a sign pointing right over here. It says she designed a life she loved. And that's the ultimate goal is we need to be designing, creating, not managing, a life we are freaking obsessed with. So when I look at this, like buying another practice because it's available, if that doesn't fit into your life vision and what you want to do and less this, like I remember I had a doctor, he would set up. Everything was done. We checked every box, every tea. I was like, all right, guys, we're wrapping up. Like, I don't know what else to consult you on. Like, truly what we set out to do, we've accomplished. Like, let's let's go. And now I we have another practice. And I was like, okay, so you have a college-age student. Like just imagine like your child is college age now, like they're out of the house, they're done, and you're about to bring on a screaming baby. Are you sure you want to buy this practice? And this doctor was like, Kiera, I do. Like I really am excited for the grind and the drive and the like thrill of building something else. And they've done an amazing job. It's been three years. They took them from 500,000 to 2.5 million, like crushed it. I'm so proud of them. But it wasn't just because it became available. It fit. And so really checking to make sure, like, does this fit my life? Adding services in because everyone else does. Just because everyone does implants doesn't mean you need to. It's got to fit what you love. Hiring because you're busy instead of because it's strategic. Like, why am I hiring? Why are we doing these things? So I want you to like start to filter through. You got your vision, you got your 10-year plan. Like, what does your life look like? Next step is like, does this move me towards my vision or away from it? And don't be careful where I can justify my life away. Like I can justify the shenanigans out of a lot of decisions. Will this improve that my quality of life? And will this make the practice stronger or just bigger? So those are some good filtering questions for you. And so, like I said, a lot of these, like when we choose to make decisions, like maybe we're gonna have a bigger leadership team or I'm gonna improve systems or We're gonna go hunker down and like focus on profitability. My doctor who wants to like g…
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