Decoder with Nilay Patel

Latest Episodes:

Why the Grammys need to change, with CEO Harvey Mason Jr. Nov 11, 2024

Show notes

Harvey Mason, Jr is CEO of the Recording Academy, the nonprofit organization most famous for the Grammy Awards. We spoke right before this year's Grammy nominations came out, and you'll hear us talk a whole lot about the changes he's tried to make with how the awarding membership works.

I always say to watch what’s happening to the music industry because it’s a preview into what will happen to every other creative industry five years later. My chat with Harvey really drove the point home: AI, diversity, streaming distribution... it's all here, and all the tensions that come with.

Links:

2025 Grammy nominations: The complete list | NPR
The Grammys Move From CBS To Disney In Major 10-Year Deal | Deadline
Recording Academy boots Grammy voters | Los Angeles Times
Chappell Roan and the problem with fandom | Vox
Grammys CEO: Music that contains AI-created elements is eligible | AP News
Deborah Dugan Grammys Controversy: What to Know | Time
For Taylor Swift, the Future of Music Is a Love Story | Wall Street Journal (2014)
AI is on a collision course with music | Decoder
Elvis Costello defends Olivia Rodrigo over ‘Brutal’ plagiarism claim | BBC
Why Adobe CEO Shantanu Narayen thinks AI is the future | Decoder

Transcript:

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Return-to-office mandates are more than "backdoor layoffs" Nov 07, 2024

Show notes

Today, we’re talking about work. Specifically, where we work, how our expectations of working remotely were radically changed by the pandemic, and how those expectations feel like they’re on the verge of changing yet again. For many people, the pendulum has swung wildly between working fully remote and now a push to return to the office from their bosses, and there are a lot of theories about what might really be motivating big companies to try and bring everyone back.

To explain it, I caught up with two experts on the subject: Stephan Meier, a professor of business strategy at Columbia Business School, and Jessica Kriegel, the chief strategy officer at workplace culture consultancy Culture Partners. We dive into what’s been happening to the nature of work today, and whether Amazon, which just announced a major return to the office five days a week, is part of a bigger trend.

Links:

Amazon is making its employees come back to the office five days a week | The Verge
Amazon CEO denies 5-day office mandate is a ‘backdoor layoff’ | CNBC
Bob Iger tells Disney employees they must return to the office four days a week | CNBC
A quarter of bosses admit return-to-office mandates meant to make staff quit | Fortune
More Americans now prefer hybrid over fully remote work, survey finds | Axios
Google tells staff: stay productive and we’ll stay flexible | BI
The list of major companies requiring employees to return to the office | BI
Thinking Inside the Box: Why Virtual Meetings Generate Fewer Ideas | Columbia
Duolingo CEO Luis von Ahn wants you addicted to learning | Decoder
Sundar Pichai on managing Google through the pandemic | Vergecast

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Why GM ditched CarPlay, with software boss Baris Cetinok Nov 04, 2024

Show notes

Today, I’m talking with Baris Cetinok, who is in charge of all the software in the cars that GM makes, which is a lot of cars. And if you’ve been following any of the drama in the world of car software, you know it also means Baris is the guy who has to defend GM’s decision to drop Apple CarPlay and Android Auto from most of its cars, especially EVs.

I’ve had versions of this conversation with the CEOs of car companies before, but Baris is in charge of actually building this stuff. So we really got into the weeds here on what this looks like, the major trade-offs, and why he thinks it’s ultimately the right path for GM.

Links:

GM names new leaders of software organization | The Detroit News
GM is cutting off access to Apple CarPlay & Android Auto for its future EVs | The Verge
Will GM Regret Kicking Apple CarPlay off the Dashboard? | Bloomberg
Rivian CEO: CarPlay isn’t going to happen | Decoder
Volvo CEO thinks dropping CarPlay is a mistake | Decoder
GM Ultifi software platform will roll out in 2023 | The Verge
Android Auto vs. Android Automotive vs. Google Automotive Services | Android Police
GM plans another big Super Cruise hands-free expansion | The Verge
GM will start making money on EVs this year | The Verge
How GM plans to beat Google, Apple at car software | Motor Trend

Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/24049622

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

“It’s the First Amendment, stupid” Oct 31, 2024

Show notes

Trump and a bunch of billionaires, like Elon Musk, are calling for the FCC to punish TV stations by revoking their licenses and using the spectrum for other stuff. In a normal world, this would be idle billionaire wishcasting. Punishing news organizations is one of those things we have a First Amendment to protect against. You know — the one that protects free speech by prohibiting the government from making speech regulations or punishing people for what they say?

But, it turns out, there is a long and complex history of the government regulating speech on broadcast platforms like radio and television — and that history dovetails into many of the problems we have regulating tech companies and social platforms today. Verge senior tech and policy editor Adi Robertson joins me to dive in.

Links:

The Verge guide to the 2024 US presidential election | The Verge
FCC chair rejects Trump’s call to revoke CBS license over Harris interview | The Verge
Florida official who resigned after letter to TV stations blames DeSantis’ office | MSNBC
“To keep it simple for the state of Florida: It’s the First Amendment, stupid” | The Verge
How America turned against the First Amendment | The Verge
Why Sen. Brian Schatz thinks child safety can trump the First Amendment | The Verge
How the Kids Online Safety Act puts us all at risk | The Verge
Here’s a bunch of bananas shit Trump said today about breaking up Google | The Verge
Barack Obama on AI, free speech, and the future of the internet | The Verge
Why you’re seeing those gross political ads during the World Series | The Verge

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Airbnb CEO Brian Chesky on what founder mode really means Oct 28, 2024

Show notes

Today, I’m talking with Airbnb CEO Brian Chesky, who is only the second person to be on Decoder three times — the other is Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg. Brian made a lot of waves earlier this year when he started talking about something called “founder mode,” or at least, when well-known investor Paul Graham wrote a blog post about Brian’s approach to running Airbnb that gave it that name.

Founder mode has since become a little bit of a meme, and I was excited to have Brian back on to talk about it, and what specifically he thinks it means. Talking to Brian is a ride, but I think I held my own, and I think you’ll really like this one.

Links:

Founder Mode | Paul Graham
Airbnb CEO Brian Chesky is taking it back to basics (2023) | Decoder
Why the future of work is the future of travel, with Airbnb’s Brian Chesky (2021) | Decoder
Airbnb CEO Brian Chesky: ‘I Never Called it Founder Mode’ | Skift
Why Silicon Valley is abuzz over ‘Founder Mode’ | NYT
After Apple, Jony Ive Is Building an Empire of His Own | NYT
Airbnb can now help you find somebody to manage your listing | The Verge
Airbnb creates new chief business officer role | Reuters
Why Jeff Bezos Says Your Goal Is to Make 3 Good Decisions per Day | Inc
Taking the Mystery out of Scaling a Company | Ben Horowtiz

Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/24043611

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The AI arms race to build digital god Oct 24, 2024

Show notes

Today, we’re going to try and figure out "digital god." I figured we’ve been doing Decoder long enough, let’s just get after it. Can we build an artificial intelligence so powerful it changes the world and answers all our questions? The AI industry has decided the answer is yes.

In September, OpenAI’s Sam Altman published a blog post claiming we’ll have superintelligent AI in “a few thousand days.” And earlier this month, Dario Amodei, the CEO of Anthropic published a 14,000-word post laying out what he thinks such a system will be capable of when it does arrive, which he says could be as soon as 2026. Verge senior AI reporter Kylie Robison joins me on the show to break it all down.

Links:

Machines of Loving Grace | Dario Amodei
The Intelligence Age | Sam Altman
Anthropic’s CEO thinks AI will lead to a utopia | The Verge
AI manifestos flood the tech zone | Axios
OpenAI just raised $6.6 billion to build ever-larger AI models | The Verge
OpenAI was a research lab — now it’s just another tech company | The Verge
California governor vetoes major AI safety bill | The Verge
Inside the white-hot center of AI doomerism | NYT
Microsoft and OpenAI’s close partnership shows signs of fraying | NYT
The $14 Billion question dividing OpenAI and Microsoft | WSJ
Anthropic has floated $40 Billion valuation in funding talks | The Information

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Intuit asked us to delete part of this Decoder episode Oct 21, 2024

Show notes

Today’s episode, well — it’s a ride. I’m talking to Intuit CEO Sasan Goodarzi, who’s built Intuit into a juggernaut business software company in part through a series of major acquisitions: TurboTax, MailChimp, CreditKarma, and loads more. There’s a lot of good Decoder material there, and we get into it.

But it’s TurboTax, and the company’s tax lobbying efforts to protect it, that really drives a major narrative about Intuit, for better and worse. So you can bet I asked Sasan about all this, and it got a bit contentious. In fact, the company's chief communications officer even demanded we delete a portion of this interview over an exchange with Sasan on TurboTax. Don’t worry — we don’t do that here at The Verge. So expect to hear that section right up top, with the rest of the interview following after.

Links:

Inside TurboTax’s 20-year fight to stop Americans from filing taxes for free| ProPublica
TurboTax deliberately hid free file page from Google Search | ProPublica
TurboTax maker Intuit spent millions in record lobbying blitz | OpenSecrets
FTC: Intuit’s “free” TurboTax ads misled consumers | The Verge
TurboTax isn’t allowed to say it’s ‘free’ anymore | The Verge
Intuit owes you money if it made you pay for TurboTax “free” | The Verge
IRS extends its Free File tax program for five more years | The Verge
IRS Direct File set to expand availability in a dozen new states | IRS
Mint is shutting down, and it’s pushing users toward Credit Karma | The Verge
Intuit Mailchimp CEO Rania Succar on Decoder | Decoder
Ethics Statement | The Verge

Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/24037861

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How influencers are changing advertising with Digitas CEO Amy Lanzi Oct 17, 2024

Show notes

Today’s episode is a little different: Digitas CEO Amy Lanzi and I recorded this conversation live on stage during advertising week in New York City at an event graciously hosted by Adweek.

I've actually been dying to talk to Amy. Digitas is one of the most important agencies in the entire advertising business with huge clients and massive influence over big platforms like Instagram and YouTube. After all, they're the ones buying the ads that keep all of those companies afloat. As you'd expect, she has a lot of thoughts about influencers, creators, AI, and everything that is going to change the advertising industry in the months and years to come.

Links:

Publicis Groupe acquires influencer-marketing giant Influential | Marketing Dive
Epsilon has first Digital CDP to provide native omni-channel activation | Epsilon
Stagwell is on the hunt for adtech as the ad company continues its acquisition spree | BI
Emma Chamberlain Is the People’s Influencer | Allure
Inside the World of Sephora Squad | Marketing Scoop
Fanatics Launches Fanatics Live, a Next-Gen Live Commerce Platform | Fanatics
There’s no AI without the cloud, says AWS CEO Adam Selipsky | The Verge
A Google breakup is on the table, say DOJ lawyers | The Verge
For Gen Z, TikTok Is the New Search Engine | The New York Times

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Xander Adams. Our supervising producer is Liam James.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Duolingo CEO Luis Von Ahn wants you addicted to learning Oct 14, 2024

Show notes

Luis von Ahn is the co-founder and CEO of Duolingo. There are lots of opportunities to enhance a product like Duolingo with AI, and we talk about all that — but I also wanted to talk to Luis about learning, generally. Duolingo is a global product, and there are a lot of tech tensions there, dealing with different user needs worldwide. We talk about it all in a pretty direct way... including all those unhinged things the owl does on social media.

Links:

Duolingo Introduces AI-Powered Innovations at Duocon 2024 (Duolingo)
Video Call with Lily (Duolingo / YouTube)
AI Boosts Duolingo As Company Posts First Profit (Nasdaq)
Foreign Language Training (US State Department)
Exploring My Villain Origin Story (Duolingo / TikTok)
Duolingo cuts workers as it relies more on AI (The Washington Post)
Why Silicon Valley Is Talking About Founder Mode (The New York Times)
Duolingo's Math and Music lessons finally hit Android a year after iOS (Android Police)
Airbnb CEO Brian Chesky on taking it back to basics (Decoder / The Verge)
How Duolingo is using its 'unhinged content' with Duo the Owl (Digiday)
How we turned Duo's butt into a viral Super Bowl commercial (Duolingo)
A Duolingo employee has apologised for joking about Amber Heard (The Tab)

Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/24031882

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Xander Adams. Our supervising producer is Liam James.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The impossible dream of good workplace software Oct 10, 2024

Show notes

I’m talking with my good friend David Pierce, Vergecast co-host and The Verge’s editor-at-large, about something he spends an ungodly amount of time thinking and writing about: software.

Scores of new workplace apps are cropping with clever metaphors to try to make us work differently. Sometimes that works… and sometimes it really, really doesn’t. And it feels like the addition of AI to the mix will accelerate the pace of experimentation here in pretty radical ways.

Links: