Decoder with Nilay Patel

Latest Episodes:

Elon Musk's presidency is just getting started Feb 06, 2025

Show notes

Today, we’re discussing a very big problem with extremely far-reaching consequences: Do we still have a functional federal government here in the United States? And how much of it has been handed entirely to Elon Musk?

If you’ve been following the news, you know there’s a lot here that’s unfolding very fast, but I wanted to know how all these changes are affecting the people who’ve so far been the most newly supportive of Trump because they have the most to lose – the money, the billionaires. So I invited New York Times reporter Teddy Schleiffer, who’s been covering this closely every day since the inauguration, on the show to help break it down.

Links:

Inside Musk's aggressive incursion into the federal government | NYT
‘The biggest heist in American history’: DC is just waking up to Musk’s takeover | Verge
‘Scared and betrayed’ — workers are reeling from chaos at federal agencies | Verge
Treasury Department sued over DOGE takeover | Verge
Can anyone stop President Musk? | Verge
Elon Musk’s team one has access to Treasury’s payments system | NYT
Elon Musk’s bureaucratic coup | Atlantic
Trump: Elon Musk won't do anything 'without our approval' | NBC News
The young, inexperienced engineers aiding Musk’s government takeover | Wired
USDS head Mina Hsiang wants big tech to help fix government (2023) | Decoder

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Bookshop CEO Andy Hunter's crusade to save books from Amazon Feb 03, 2025

Show notes

Andy Hunter is the CEO of Bookshop.org, a website he launched in 2020 that lets local bookshops sell all over the country. He always meant it to compete directly with Amazon, and the timing of that launch right into the teeth of the pandemic meant it was able to start strong and grow quickly.

Now Bookshop is selling ebooks, which is another market hugely dominated by Amazon. For Andy and Bookshop to get what they want, they’re probably going to have to gear up for a big fight. It’s kind of the app store question all over again, just like the big cases Epic had against Apple and Google, and it's all prime Decoder territory.

Links:

Bookshop is launching an ebook store to take on Amazon | The Verge
As greenwashing soars, some question B Corp certification | BBC
‘The Goliath is Amazon’: After 100 years, B&N wants to go back to its roots | Decoder
How Bookshop survives and thrives in Amazon’s world | Wired
Apple to pay $450M after Supreme Court denies price-fixing appeal [2016] | The Verge
Epic Games vs Apple | The Verge

Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/604809

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Xander Adams.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

DeepSeek, Stargate, and the new AI arms race Jan 30, 2025

Show notes

Today, we’re talking about DeepSeek, and how the open source AI model built by a Chinese startup has completely upended the conventional wisdom around chatbots, what they can do, and how much they should cost to develop.

We’re also talking about Stargate, OpenAI’s new $500 billion data center venture that’s supposed to supercharge domestic AI infrastructure. Both stand in stark contrast with one another — and represent a new, escalating front in the US-China relationship and the geopolitics of AI. Verge senior AI reporter Kylie Robison joins me to break it all down.

Links:

Why everyone is freaking out about DeepSeek | Verge
DeepSeek FAQ | Stratechery
DeepSeek: all the news about the startup that’s shaking up AI stocks | Verge
OpenAI and Softbank are starting a $500 billion AI data center company | Verge
The AI spending frenzy is just getting started | Command Line
After DeepSeek, VCs face questions about AI investments | NYT
Satya Nadella on Stargate: ‘All I know is I’m good for my $80 billion’ | Verge
OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor | FT
DeepSeek sparks global AI selloff, Nvidia loses about $593 billion of value | Reuters
Four big reasons to worry about DeepSeek (and four reasons to calm down) | Platformer

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How Ciena keeps the internet online, with CEO Gary Smith Jan 27, 2025

Show notes

Today, I’m talking with Gary Smith, CEO of the networking company Ciena. You probably aren’t familiar with Ciena — the company isn’t really a household name. But every internet user has relied on the company’s products; Ciena makes the hardware and software that makes the fiber optic cables connecting the world light up with data.

That’s everything from local fiber networks for broadband ISPs to the massive undersea cables that connect continents. There’s a high probability that this very podcast came to you over a Ciena network, in fact — the company is everywhere. That means almost every single Decoder idea is right here, sitting on the backbone of the internet.

Links:

What is WDM or DWDM? | Ciena
Southern Cross achieves first 1 Tb/s Transmission across Pacific with Ciena | Ciena
The invisible seafaring industry that keeps the internet afloat | Verge
The internet really is a series of tubes | Vergecast
Meta is building the ‘mother of all’ subsea cables | Verge
Ciena CEO: Prepare for the AI wave | Fierce Network
The secret life of the 500-plus cables that run the internet CNET
Fiber-Optic Technology Draws Record Stock Value | NYT

Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/24115288

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How Meta's MAGA heel turn is a play for global power Jan 23, 2025

Show notes

It’s been a messy couple of weeks for big tech companies as the second Trump administration kicks off an unprecedented era of how we think about who controls the internet. Right now, there's a major collision, or maybe merger, happening between billionaire power and state power, and everyone who uses tech to communicate — so, basically everyone — is stuck in the middle. I sat down with law professor and online speech expert Kate Klonick to break it all down.

Links:

Welcome to the era of gangster tech regulation | Verge
Trump signs order refusing to enforce TikTok ban for 75 days | Verge
Inside Zuckerberg’s sprint to remake Meta for Trump era | New York Times
The internet’s future is looking bleaker by the day | Wired
Meta is highlighting a splintering global approach to online speech | Verge
Mark Zuckerberg lies about content moderation to Joe Rogan’s face | Verge
Meta’s ‘tipping point’ is about aligning with power | WashPo
Meta is preparing for an autocratic future | Tech Policy Press
Meta surrenders to the right on speech | Platformer
We’re all trying to find the guy who did this | Atlantic

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Why CEO Matt Garman is willing to bet AWS on AI Jan 13, 2025

Show notes

Today, I’m talking with Matt Garman, the CEO of Amazon Web Services. Matt took over as CEO last June — you might recall that we had his predecessor Adam Selipsky on the show just over a year ago. That makes this episode terrific Decoder bait, since I love hearing how new CEOs will decide what to change and what to keep going after they’ve settled into their role.

Links:

There’s no AI without the cloud, says AWS CEO Adam Selipsky | Decoder
Amazon's AWS to invest $11 bln in Georgia to boost AI infrastructure | Reuters
Netflix’s Ted Sarandos responds to Jake Paul-Mike Tyson glitches | THR
The furious contest to unseat Nvidia as king of AI chips | NYT
Amazon’s moonshot plan to rival Nvidia in AI chips | Bloomberg
Amazon invests another $4 billion in Anthropic | The Verge
Why Netflix never goes down | The Verge
Sam Altman lowers the bar for AGI | The Verge

Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/24102212

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Studying online bad behavior was hard. It's going to get harder in Trump 2.0 Jan 06, 2025

Show notes

Hello, Nilay here. We’re still on winter break; we’ll be back with brand-new Decoder interviews next week, and with our Thursday shows later this month. I’m excited for what we’ve got in the pipeline. I think you’re going to love it.

For today, though, we’re sharing an episode of Peter Kafka’s new show Channels – he’s talking to disinformation researcher Renee DiResta about what’s going on with speech online in an era where platforms seem less inclined to moderate than ever. Peter’s an old friend and Renee is an expert on all this — there’s a lot of core Decoder themes in this one. Enjoy, and we’ll be back in a bit.

Links:

Channels with Peter Kafka | Apple Podcasts
The Stanford Internet Observatory is being dismantled | Platformer
A major disinformation research center’s future looks uncertain | The Verge
Supreme Court to hear case on how government talks to social platforms | The Verge
GOP targets researchers who study disinformation ahead of 2024 Election | NYT
She warned of ‘peer-to-peer misinformation.’ Congress listened | NYT
Disinformation watchdogs are under pressure. This group refuses to stop | NYT

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Answering your biggest Decoder questions Dec 20, 2024

Show notes

The Decoder team turns the tables on Nilay and makes him answer your burning listener questions in our end-of-year wrap up special. We also reflect on the year’s biggest Decoder themes, discuss some of the most popular feedback we’ve received, and tease what we have planned for next year.

Links:

Here we go: The Verge now has a subscription | The Verge
How The Verge Works | The Vergecast
Intuit asked us to delete part of this Decoder episode | Decoder
What’s really behind Big Tech’s return-to-office mandates? | Decoder
Rabbit CEO Jesse Lyu isn’t thinking too far ahead | Decoder
Transparent Vice | The Verge
UiPath CEO Daniel Dines thinks automation can fight the great resignation | Decoder
Palmer Luckey, American Vulcan | Tablet
A revolution in how robots learn | The New Yorker

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Tech antitrust is about to get really weird Dec 18, 2024

Show notes

Today we’re talking about antitrust policy and tech, which is at a particularly weird moment as we enter the second Trump administration. A lot of tech policy is at a weird moment, actually, but antitrust might be the weirdest of them all — the pendulum has swung back and forth on antitrust policy pretty wildly over the past few years, and it’s about to swing again under Trump. So I asked Leah Nylen, an antitrust reporter for Bloomberg News and a leading expert on this subject, to come on the show and help break it all down.

Links:

Trump’s antitrust trio heralds Big Tech crackdown to continue | Bloomberg
Trump picks FTC Commissioner Andrew Ferguson to lead the agency | Politico
Trump picks Gail Slater to head Justice Department's antitrust division | Reuters
Trump names Brendan Carr as his FCC leader | The Verge
Trump’s FTC pick promises to go after ‘censorship’ from tech companies | The Verge
Breaking down the DOJ’s plan to end Google’s search monopoly | The Verge
US v. Google redux: all the news from the ad tech trial | The Verge
Tech leaders kiss the ring | The Verge
DOJ antitrust chief is ‘overjoyed’ after Google monopoly verdict | Decoder
This is Big Tech’s playbook for swallowing the AI industry | Command Line

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Arm CEO Rene Haas on the AI chip race, Intel, and what Trump means for tech Dec 16, 2024

Show notes

Alex Heath, Deputy Editor at The Verge, guest hosts this episode of Decoder featuring a live interview with Arm CEO Rene Haas about the future of AI and the semiconductor industry. The two discuss his thoughts on the struggles of Intel, the rumors Arm is developing its own AI chips to rival Nvidia’s, and his thoughts on the incoming Trump administration.

Links: