CMO Confidential

Latest Episodes:

Joe Perello | The Credibility Challenge – Thoughts on Authenticity in an Artificial Marketplace May 05, 2026

Show notes

A CMO Confidential Interview with Joe Perello, the founder of PROPS, a creator marketing technology platform, formerly the first CMO of New York City under Michael Bloomberg.

Joe shares his take on why consumer brand trust is declining, how viewers can be both distracted and disciplined, and why AI agents can be more trusted than brands.

Key topics include:

- The difference between influencers, celebrities and creators

- A restaurant analogy designed to help marketers think through their line-up of choices

- Some methods to gauge and measure authenticity.

Tune in to hear a case study on Patagonia and a fantastic story about a giant popsicle in Union Square.

This episode is sponsored by Typeface - the agentic AI marketing platform that turns one idea into thousands of on-brand assets. Learn more: typeface.ai/cmo

Subscribe for weekly episodes featuring world-class marketing leaders, board members, and C-Suite executives.

⏱️ Chapters

01:30 Meet Joe Perello & Today’s Topic: The Credibility Challenge

02:26 Making Content Is Easy, Earning Trust Is Hard

03:55 Why Credibility Doesn’t Scale

05:23 Are Consumers Distracted or Disciplined?

06:03 Trust in B2B vs B2C Marketing

07:09 The Long Decline of Trust in Brands & Institutions

08:08 Is There Still a Trust Reservoir?

09:30 Do Consumers Trust AI More Than Brands?

10:39 Optimizer vs Persuader: Why It Matters

11:00 Break: Typeface Marketing Orchestration

12:20 Did AI Cause the Trust Crisis or Amplify It?

14:07 Why AI and Creators Feel More “Objective”

15:02 Creator vs Influencer vs Celebrity Marketing

17:29 The Restaurant Analogy Explained

19:33 Real Creator Example: AAA & Road‑Trip Storytelling

21:25 When Creators Become Influencers

23:36 Authenticity Depends on the Story You Ask Them to Tell

25:03 Do Consumers Understand These Distinctions?

26:50 How Brands Should Use Celebrities, Influencers & Creators

28:50 What’s Easiest to Measure and Why CFOs Care

31:38 Patagonia: A Gold Standard for Creator‑Led Trust

33:22 Content First, Brand Second = Trust

34:21 Can You Measure Trust? Proxies That Matter

36:37 Storytime: The 50‑Foot Snapple Popsicle Fail

41:11 Final Thoughts & Where to Find More Episodes

#CMOConfidential, #MarketingLeadership, #BrandTrust, #CreatorMarketing, #InfluencerMarketing, #AuthenticityInMarketing, #AIandMarketing, #MarketingStrategy, #BrandCredibility,, #ModernMarketing, #B2BMarketing, #B2CMarketing, #ContentStrategy, #TrustEconomy, #MediaAndMarketing

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Rishad Tobaccowala | A Futurist Talks About What's Next for Marketers and Agencies Apr 28, 2026

Show notes

A CMO Confidential Interview with Rishad Tobaccowala, former Publicis Groupe Strategy & Growth Officer, speaker, podcast host of "What's Next," and author.

Rishad discusses why marketing will thrive in an AI world, the reason all companies should systematically re-evaluate their business starting with a blank sheet of paper, and why the future will be determined by those over 65.

Key topics include:

- Why AI will obliterate marketing silos

- The concept of managing humans, aliens and replicants

- Why he's an optimist

- The case for investigating if you are building a brand or executing optimization math.

Tune in to hear about the concept of unbossing and a fabulous shipping container analogy.

This episode is sponsored by Typeface - the agentic AI marketing platform that turns one idea into thousands of on-brand assets. Learn more: typeface.ai/cmo

Subscribe for weekly episodes featuring world-class marketing leaders, board members, and C-Suite executives.

⏱️ Chapters

01:22 Meet Rishad Tobaccowala

02:27 The Marketing Industry Is Being Rewritten by AI

03:00 Why Silos (Ads, CRM, Sales) Are Breaking Down

06:26 What Marketing Really Means Today

08:00 Humans, AI, and Agents in the Workforce

13:31 Efficiency Isn’t the Disruption—Business Models Are

18:00 AI as a New Brain, Not a Tool

27:00 Why People Over 65 Will Shape the Future

31:00 Five Hard Truths Every Leader Must Face

35:29 A Bold Prediction for Agencies by 2026

38:00 Final Advice: Lead with Optimism, Not Fear

#CMOConfidential, #RishadTobaccowala, #MarketingLeadership, #FutureOfMarketing, #ArtificialIntelligence, #AgenticAI, #AIInMarketing, #BusinessTransformation, #DigitalStrategy, #MarketingStrategy, #BrandBuilding, #FutureOfWork, #WorkforceTransformation, #Leadership, #CMO, #EnterpriseAI, #ContentOrchestration, #MarketingInnovation, #CustomerCentricity, #MediaIndustry

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Dan McCarthy | University of Maryland - The Unit Economics of AI - Can LLMs Actually Make Money? Apr 21, 2026

Show notes

"The Unit Economics of AI - Can Large Language Models (LLMs) Actually Make Money?"

A CMO Confidential Interview with Dr. Dan McCarthy, Professor at Maryland and leading practitioner of Customer Lifetime Value (CLV).

Dan shares how the CLV lens can shed light on the LLM drive to acquire customers, spend billions to improve the models, ultimately pay back investors and the potential implications on both marketers and consumers.

Key topics include:

- Why Gemini has a built in pricing advantage which forces all freemium offerings to be very good

- Why all companies should have a “diversity of providers”

- The rationale for constantly evaluating each model

- Why “AI foundational knowledge” is key to generating success from both employees and students.

Tune in to hear about the "customer barbell" and why you should “talk to your phone.”

This episode is sponsored by Typeface - the agentic AI marketing platform that turns one idea into thousands of on-brand assets. Learn more: typeface.ai/cmo

Subscribe for weekly episodes featuring world-class marketing leaders, board members, and C-Suite executives.

#AIEconomics #CustomerLifetimeValue #CLV #GenerativeAI #AIBusinessModels #OpenAIEconomics #ChatGPTMonetization #AIValuation #AIUnitEconomics #InferenceCosts #AITrainingCosts #FreemiumModels #SubscriptionEconomics #SaaSProfitability #MarketingStrategy #CMOInsights #MarketingLeadership #AIForMarketers #EnterpriseAI #AIRetention #AICustomerAcquisition #LargeLanguageModels #LLMEconomics #AIAdvertising #AIRandD #FutureOfAIBusiness

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Shiv Singh | CEO, Savvy Matters - Where AI Is Taking Marketing: Things That Make You Go “Hmm” Apr 14, 2026

Show notes

A CMO Confidential Interview with Shiv Singh, CEO of Savvy Matters, Co-Founder of AI Trailblazers, former CMO of Lending Tree, and author of Marketing with AI for Dummies.

Shiv discusses how to operate in an environment where "We have no idea about what is coming," how managing humans and AI agents impacts leadership, and why he believes marketers will need to make fewer, harder decisions. Key topics include: why losing isn't fatal, but forgetting is; the risk of thinking human beings are special; and the concept of "invisible failure." Tune in to hear why you should rewrite your job description and become a "wartime" leader.

Topics Covered:

- Where Is AI Taking Marketing?

- Leadership in a Human + AI Workforce

- Fewer, Harder Strategic Bets for CMOs

- AI’s Impact on Creativity and Marketing Processes

- Context Graphs, Memory, and the Future of Marketing Operations

This episode is sponsored by Typeface - the agentic AI marketing platform that turns one idea into thousands of on-brand assets. Learn more: typeface.ai/cmo

Subscribe for weekly episodes featuring world-class marketing leaders, board members, and C-Suite executives.

⏱️ Chapters

00:00 – Welcome to CMO Confidential

01:38 – Meet Shiv Singh

02:35 – Where is AI Taking Marketing? The "Jagged Frontier" of AI

06:10 – What Does Leadership Look Like Managing Humans + AI Agents

09:35 – Making Fewer, Harder Strategic Bets

10:50 – Budget Pressure, Boards, and AI Expectations

14:43 – Invisible Failure in AI Adoption

17:26 – AI and the Future of Creativity

21:26 – Governance, Consumer Acceptance, and AI Bias

26:05 – The End of the Marketing Brief

27:40 – Who Remembers Wins: Context Graphs Explained

31:47 – Building a Marketing Context Layer

35:30 – What Marketers Should Be Doing Now

37:38 – Anthropic vs. Government: AI Ethics & Risk

42:38 – Predictions Through 2026

45:04 – The Changing Definition of a Marketer

45:50 – Funniest Story and Practical Advice

#AIMarketing #MarketingLeadership #CMOConfidential #ShivSingh #GenerativeAI #FutureOfMarketing #AIStrategy #CreativeAI #MarketingTransformation #EnterpriseAI

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Peri Hansen | Leader, CMO Practice, Korn Ferry - Is Marketing Still Marketing? Apr 07, 2026

Show notes

This week on CMO Confidential, we're revisiting our conversation with Peri Hansen from July of 2025 - this is one of our favorites with topics just as relevant to marketers today.

Peri discusses why the CMO position is becoming the vanguard of innovation, the importance of an "agile learner" mindset, and why there's no substitute for great leadership. Key topics include: how nothing "returned to normal" after COVID; the importance of org design; and why CMO's should own the entire customer life cycle and help drive company strategy. Tune in to hear why references matter more than ever and the importance of building a personal brand.

Topics Covered:

• Why CMOs are being tapped to drive innovation and transformation

• The post-COVID shift in org design and what it means for marketing

• The importance of leadership, agility, and continuous learning

• Why great references still matter in the hiring process

• How CMOs can (and should) influence company-wide strategy

This episode is sponsored by Typeface - the agentic AI marketing platform that turns one idea into thousands of on-brand assets. Learn more: typeface.ai/cmo

Subscribe for weekly episodes featuring world-class marketing leaders, board members, and C-Suite executives.

⏱️ Chapters

01:20 – Intro: The Evolving Role of the CMO

01:46 – Meet Peri Hansen: Korn Ferry CMO Practice Leader

02:39 – Why the CMO is Now the Vanguard of Innovation

05:53 – Three New Mandates for CMOs: Tech, Strategy & Lifecycle

07:05 – The CMO as a Change Agent and Team Builder

09:51 – Tech CMOs Are Leading—Who’s Catching Up?

12:25 – Building Tech Credibility as a Marketing Leader

14:18 – “Nothing Returned to Normal” After COVID

14:51 – Post-COVID Turnover: What CEOs and Boards Want Now

16:07 – What’s Replacing the Traditional CMO Role?

19:15 – Why Org Design Is a Top Priority in CMO Searches

20:58 – How Companies Realize They Need Org Restructuring

22:44 – The AI Era: Is There a Leadership Gap Forming?

24:14 – What Agile Leadership Actually Looks Like

25:51 – What Resumes Reveal: Pivot Points and Risk-Taking

27:21 – Why References Matter More Than Ever

29:09 – Final Advice: CMOs, Build Your Own Personal Brand

30:53 – Wrap Up & Where to Find More CMO Confidential Content

#CMOConfidential #PeriHansen @kornferryintl #ChiefMarketingOfficer #Leadership #OrgDesign #CustomerExperience #MarketingStrategy #PersonalBrand #ExecutiveSearch #CMOInsights

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Dave Penski | Publicis Groupe | Media in the Age of AI: PART 2 Mar 31, 2026

Show notes

A CMO Confidential Interview with Dave Penski, CEO of Connected Media, formerly CEO of Publicis Media, COO of Publicis Groupe, and CEO of ZenithOptimedia. Dave shares perspective on how clients are managing through a challenging marketplace, how there's increasing "disruption" between consumers and advertisers, and why the future of media is based on "connected identity." Key topics include: why Publicis continues to invest in tech; why 2027 will bring increased challenges for marketers; how different business verticals are impacted by "the economic K curve;" and why sports is "as AI proof as it gets." Tune in to hear why you should know your customer as precisely as possible across all media types and thoughts on the potential impacts of gambling and NIL (Name, Image and Likeness) on the golden goose of sports.

Dave Penski, CEO of Publicis Media (twice over) and former COO of Publicis Groupe, returns to CMO Confidential for a wide-ranging conversation with host Mike Linton on the forces reshaping marketing, media, and the agency business in 2026. Dave offers a rare economist's-eye view across verticals — from tariffs and consumer confidence to the K-economy, AI's real (and overhyped) impact on agencies, the in-housing cycle that never quite materialized as predicted, and why 2027 may be the toughest advertising year in recent memory.

Topics covered: connected identity, Publicis' $12B investment thesis, creative and engineering transformation via AI, streaming consolidation, the fragmentation of sports viewing, gambling regulation, and the one piece of career advice Dave still gives every mentee.

*This episode is brought to you by Scrunch . Learn more at scrunchai.com/cmo

🎙️ Host: Mike Linton — Former CMO of Best Buy, eBay, Farmers Insurance & Ancestry.com

👤 Guest: Dave Penske — CEO, Publicis Media

🔔 New episodes every Tuesday. Find our full catalog of 160+ episodes on YouTube, Spotify & Apple Podcasts.

## ⏱️ Chapter Markers

0:00 Welcome to CMO Confidential

0:23 Introducing Dave Penske & Today's Topic

1:13 State of the Business Marketplace: Volatility, Tariffs & Fragmentation

4:40 The Agency Landscape: Publicis vs. the Competition

5:23 Publicis' $12B Investment Strategy & Connected Media

7:42 What "Connected Identity" Actually Means

11:10 Forces on Agency Economics & Valuations

13:21 Why Agency Valuations Have Taken a Hit

16:48 The In-Housing Debate: 10 Years In, What's Really Happening

23:55 AI & Agencies: Creative, Production & Engineering Disruption

29:01 AI on the Buy Side: Faster Planning & Measurement

30:20 The Hollowing Out of the Middle Class & the K-Economy

34:00 2026 Marketplace Outlook: Midterms, Olympics Dollars & Risk

40:21 Streaming: Paramount/Warner Brothers & the New Big Six

42:37 Sports: AI-Proof, Must-See TV & the NIL Problem

44:45 The Fragmented Sports Viewing Experience

46:00 Gambling: Engagement Boost or Threat to the Game?

48:47 What CMOs Should Be Building Now for 2027

50:47 Closing Advice: The One Thing Dave Still Tells Every Mentee

```

CMO Confidential, Mike Linton, Dave Penske, Publicis Media, agency business, media industry 2026, connected identity, Epsilon, AI in advertising, AI and agencies, in-housing, media fragmentation, advertising marketplace, K-economy, middle class economy, streaming consolidation, Paramount Warner Brothers, sports advertising, sports gambling, NIL reform, agency valuations, Publicis Groupe, media planning, marketing leadership, CMO podcast, advertising trends, tariffs and advertising, media buying, retail media, influencer marketing, Sapient, AI creative production, upfront TV, Olympic advertising, World Cup advertising, midterm elections advertising, marketing strategy 2027, chief marketing officer

```

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Dave Penski | Publicis Groupe | Media in the Age of AI | Part 1 Mar 24, 2026

Show notes

In this episode of CMO Confidential, host Mike Linton sits down with Dave Penski, two-time CEO of Publicis Media and former COO of Publicis Groupe, for a wide-ranging conversation on the forces reshaping media, agencies, and marketing strategy. Dave offers a ground-level view from one of the largest holding companies in the world — covering everything from the fragmented ad marketplace and AI's real-world impact, to the K-economy, streaming consolidation, sports gambling risk, and what CMOs should be building toward in 2027.

This episode covers:

Why the current ad marketplace is volatile — and which verticals are feeling it most

Publicis's $12B+ investment thesis around connected identity (Epsilon, Mars United, influencer)

The real story on agency insourcing: who wins, who loses, and what "outsourcing back out" looks like

Where AI is actually delivering — creative production, media planning speed, and Sapient's engineering work

The K-economy, hollowing out of the middle class, and what it means for advertising spend

Streaming consolidation: why the Paramount/Warner Bros. deal is a win for advertisers

Sports as the most AI-proof content — and why gambling regulation is a threat to the whole model

What CMOs should be investing in now to win in 2027

New episodes of CMO Confidential drop every Tuesday. Find our full catalog of 160+ episodes on Spotify, Apple, and YouTube.

TIMESTAMPED CHAPTER MARKERS

0:00 - Welcome to CMO Confidential

0:23 - Introducing Dave Penski, CEO of Publicis Media

1:13 - State of the Business Marketplace: Volatility, Tariffs & Fragmentation

4:40 - The Agency Landscape: Publicis vs. the Field

5:49 - Publicis's $12B Investment Strategy & Connected Media Vision

7:42 - What "Connected Identity" Actually Means (Epsilon, 255M IDs)

11:35 - Agency Valuations, Margins & Who's Growing vs. Who's Cutting

13:21 - The Insourcing Debate: In-House, Out-House & "Re-Housing"

23:55 - AI's Real Impact on Agencies: Creative, Engineering & Media Planning

30:20 - The K-Economy: Hollowing Out the Middle Class & Advertiser Confidence

35:04 - The 2026 Upfront Outlook: Olympics Dollars, Midterms & What's Next

40:01 - Streaming Consolidation: Paramount + Warner Bros. & the Six-Player Model

42:37 - Sports as AI-Proof Content & the Fragmented Viewing Problem

46:00 - Gambling: Bullish on Sports, Bearish on the Regulation Gap

48:47 - CMO Advice: What to Build Now for 2027 Success

50:47 - Final Advice: The Most Underrated Career Skill Is Still Punctuality

Tags

CMO Confidential, Megan Lally, High Dive Agency, Mike Linton, Chief Marketing Officer, agency client relationship, creative agency, brand building, AI and marketing, Super Bowl advertising, Jeep campaign, State Farm marketing, Lays Super Bowl ad, independent creative agency, breakthrough creative, marketing strategy, CMO podcast, how to work with an agency, agency pitch process, radical candor marketing, B2B marketing, marketing ROI, brand investment, marketing leadership, performance marketing vs brand, Scrunch, agent experience platform`

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Richard Sanderson | The 2026 Spencer Stuart CMO Survey - Marketers in the Messy Middle Mar 10, 2026

Show notes

A CMO Confidential Interview with Richard Sanderson, the Marketing, Sales and Communications Practice Leader at Spencer Stuart. Richard's topline - Shorter Tenures, Brighter Futures - with tenure stable at 4.1 years, nearly 2/3 of CMO's moving for similar or better positions, an increase in promotions from within, and marketers under pressure to produce AI results. Key topics include: the challenge of developing a broad skill set in a market focused on specialization; why 2026 is the "show me the money year for AI;" and how marketers and search firms are adopting when there's "no obvious playbook." Tune in to hear why you should be prepared to explain how you use AI in your personal life.

What does the data actually say about CMO tenure, AI's impact on marketing teams, and whether your job is safe? Richard Sanderson, who leads the Marketing, Communications & Sales practice at Spencer Stuart, returns for his fifth appearance on CMO Confidential to break down two major studies: Spencer Stuart's 25-year CMO tenure survey and a new proprietary AI impact study of 100 CMOs.

The data may surprise you — and some of it should concern you.

---

*This episode is brought to you by @ScrunchAI

---

🎙️ Host: Mike Linton, former CMO of Best Buy, eBay, Farmers Insurance & Ancestry.com

👤 Guest: Richard Sanderson, Spencer Stuart – Marketing, Communications & Sales Practice Leader

---

**CHAPTERS:**

0:00 – Introduction & Richard Sanderson Background

1:07 – Two Studies: CMO Tenure & AI Impact

3:00 – CMO Tenure Overview: Shorter Tenures, Brighter Futures

4:38 – Average CMO Tenure vs. The C-Suite

5:55 – Where CMOs Go After They Leave

6:36 – The CMO-Plus Role: CRO, CCO & Evolving Titles

9:00 – Insider vs. Outsider Hiring & Succession Planning

12:28 – AI Study: Marketers See 2026 as Make-or-Break

13:18 – Headcount Cuts: Past vs. What's Coming

14:20 – Efficiency Targets at the Largest Companies

16:21 – CMOs in the Messy Middle

17:18 – Where Teams Stand on the AI Adoption Journey

18:29 – Who's Leading AI Strategy Inside Companies

20:25 – Impact on Career Development & Future Marketing Leaders

21:30 – How Job Descriptions Are Being Rewritten for AI

23:32 – No Playbook: Learning as You Go

24:14 – Brand Trust & the Risks of AI-First Advertising

26:00 – Takeaways: What to Do Now

28:01 – Ostriches vs. Wolves — Which One Are You?

29:46 – Practical Advice: Treating AI Agents Like New Hires

---

**TAGS:**

CMO Confidential, Mike Linton, Richard Sanderson, Spencer Stuart, CMO tenure, chief marketing officer, CMO survey, AI and marketing, marketing leadership, AI impact on jobs, marketing jobs 2026, CMO career, B2B marketing, marketing strategy, AI agents, marketing teams, headcount reduction, marketing executive, C-suite leadership, AI adoption, brand trust, marketing talent, CMO role evolution, chief revenue officer, chief customer officer, marketing podcast, AI in the workplace, marketing 2026, executive leadership, Spencer Stuart CMO survey

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Nic Chidiac | Razorfish | Your Customers Aren’t as Loyal as You Think They Are - The Fragile Nature of Loyalty Mar 03, 2026

Show notes

"Your Customers Aren't as Loyal as You Think They Are - The Fragile Nature of Loyalty"

A CMO Confidential Interview with Nicolas Chidiac, Chief Strategy Officer of Razorfish, formerly Chief Strategy Officer of Rokkan and EVP/Head of Planning at Leo Burnett. Nic discusses why brands often overestimate consumer loyalty, why repeat purchase trends can be misleading, and the dramatic increase in speed and velocity of competition. Key discussion topics include: why it has never been easier to try a new product; how influencers have "democratized celebrity endorsement;" why marketers should focus on "removing relative friction;" and how to measure your loyalty deficit. Tune in to hear stories about White Lotus, Chewy, Dubai Chocolate and Pop Tarts.

Your customers aren't as loyal as you think. Razorfish Chief Strategy Officer Nic Chidiac joins Mike Linton to unpack groundbreaking research revealing the fragile nature of brand loyalty — and why most marketers are dangerously overconfident about it.

65% of marketers believe repeat buyers stay out of emotional connection to their brand. Only 15-17% of consumers agree. That gap is costing companies billions. Nic breaks down the loyalty deficit, why switching has never been easier, and what confident marketers should actually be measuring.

Whether you're defending a market-leading brand or building a challenger, this episode will change how you think about loyalty programs, customer retention, and the metrics you're relying on.

🎙️ Guest: Nic Chidiac, Chief Strategy Officer, Razorfish

🎙️ Host: Mike Linton, Former CMO of Best Buy, eBay, Farmers Insurance & Ancestry.com

---

**⏱️ Chapters:**

00:00 - Introduction & Welcome

00:47 - About Razorfish & Nic's Background

01:30 - The Loyalty Research: Key Findings

02:21 - The 65% vs. 15% Marketer-Consumer Gap

03:16 - Are Marketers Confusing Repeat Purchases with Loyalty?

04:19 - Why Marketers Are Delusional About Loyalty

06:29 - The Three Metrics Marketers Should Be Using

08:16 - Industry Examples: Auto, Insurance & Switching Friction

10:09 - How to Measure Propensity to Switch

11:00 - Why Brand Loyalty Is More Volatile Than Ever

13:18 - How Influencers Democratized Trust

14:29 - The Speed of Competition: White Lotus & Four Seasons

15:14 - Challenger Brands Moving Faster Than Ever (Hoka, BYD, Dubai Chocolate)

18:22 - What Market Leaders Should Do Right Now

19:26 - Removing Friction: A Competitive Weapon

20:00 - Rewarding Moments of Vulnerability (The Chewy Example)

21:00 - Winning the First Flight with a Toddler

22:07 - Rethinking Loyalty Programs Beyond Behavior

22:33 - The Loyalty Deficit Framework Explained

23:42 - Which Industries Have the Biggest Loyalty Deficits

25:11 - How AI Can Predict Switching & Defend Loyalty

27:00 - The Marketplace Is Tilting Toward Consumers

28:29 - Baby Boomers: The Most Neglected Consumer Segment

31:15 - Funny Story: YouTubing "What Is a Pop-Tart?" at Kellogg's

32:10 - Closing & Where to Find CMO Confidential

---

**Tags:**

CMO Confidential, brand loyalty, customer retention, B2B marketing, loyalty programs, Razorfish, Nic Chidiac, Mike Linton, marketing strategy, customer experience, loyalty deficit, propensity to switch, challenger brands, performance marketing, NPS, net promoter score, customer lifetime value, CLTV, AI in marketing, agentic search, baby boomers marketing, switching behavior, repeat purchase, CMO podcast, marketing leadership, digital transformation, brand strategy, consumer behavior, marketing metrics, loyalty research

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